I appear to have triggered some ire, by repeating an anecdote as part of a story… of course being an anecdote it is by definition what someone else told me, not what I saw with my own eyes.
There is a difference between saying;
“years ago I rode the length of italy on the back (non autostrada) routes, and it seemed every junction and corner had two whores standing there”
and
“Fred was in italy, and he says at least half the wimminz there are whores”
In time gone by the difference between the two was crucial in a court of law, one was hearsay and inadmissible, one was evidence and admissible, nowadays not so much, and I can say those four words in red from bitter personal experience, that’s not hearsay to me.
Quite often you can then go on to tell another story, and use Fred’s anecdote as a backdrop, and for the purposes of the story, it doesn’t really matter if the backdrop is anecdotal or evidential.
Certainly, I do not want to either a/ get into a pissing match with someone else who was not there, or b/ get into a pissing match with someone whose sensibilities I have offended, neither of these are the purpose of the storyteller.
We no longer have camp fires and we no longer have the traditional pubs, both places where people took turns to say stuff and get stuff off their chests, now we have the internet and blogs, but all of it was all storytelling.
I try to tell true stories, but scientifically it isn’t possible to do this once you go outside extremely personal anecdotes, how many cups of coffee I have drunk today, how many times I took a piss.
So I am going to use two other true people as an example, I’ll call then Jack and Diane, those are not their real names, but I know them well, very well, I’ve fucked Diane, and Jack knows it, and so do their kids, Diane and me were a thing for a while, and to some eyes I was the reason Diane finally left Jack.
I’m still friends with both of them, and they are still friends with each other, and theirs is one of those now rare stories where two young people who were basically good people got together and got married, but neither of them was really suited to the other, but both being basically good people nobody got nasty at any time before during or since their relationship breakdown.
Jack and Diane will both tell you that they get on today as separate individuals and joint parents better than they ever did when married, they will also tell you they respect and care for the other today more than they ever did when married, I wasn’t the cause of their split, that was happening anyway, my contribution was to keep all sides civilised and amicable, while fucking Diane up the ass, as screwed up as that may sound.
So when you boil all that down you’re only left with a couple of things, jack and Diane have always been good people, and it’s because they are good people that a doomed marriage lasted as long as it did, and that it and the separation were as peaceful and amicable as they were… because they were good people, nothing else came close as a contributing factor.
However, we can also observe that just because they were good people it did not make the marriage work or true love ever grow… so we also know that these things are not all it takes to have a good marriage or a healthy loving relationship.
Good people can disagree with each other, vehemently, they just won’t resort to doing bad things because the other person was clearly an asshole who wasted the yadda yadda yadda.
The Philippine president calling Obama an asshole isn’t necessarily a sign of a bad person, the bad person is someone who starts bombing Obama’s citizens because they should have removed Obama from power, and since they didn’t, well, the assholes deserve everything they get.
For much of history, the difference between an epithet causing offence and not causing offence was simple, if the two people know each other, offence is unlikely to be taken, and even if it is, so what, I can call my brother an asshole and he can either take offence or not, it’s my opinion and that’s that, but it doesn’t mean I hate him.
Unlike the vast majority of the human population who I have never met, I’ve known my brother all my life, so he has had plenty of chances to fuck me over, and he hasn’t… so he may be an asshole, but he isn’t a nasty asshole.. most of the asshole comments I make are because he is too soft, not because he is too nasty or too stupid etc.
He’s an asshole because he puts up with that shit.
So I’m driving home tonight and I come to a yellow box junction controlled by traffic lights, and under the traffic light for our direction is a sign prohibiting right turns, so when the light goes green (i’m 2nd in the queue) the stupid bitch in the white car ahead of me pulls forwards six feet, stops, and puts her indicator on to turn right.
I toot my horn
She puts her hand up and sits there.
My window is open so I toot my horn again and shout out the window NO RIGHT TURN.
She puts her hand up again.
Fuck it, horn goes on continuous and I get up her ass, she freaks, hits hazards, hits left (legal) turns left, mounts pavement doing so, her and passenger look at me like I’m a cunt, I get through and one more car gets through before light turns red again.
Now *anyone* can fuck up on a road, so I’m not ragging on the bitch for trying to make an illegal right turn, she might not be local, she might not have seen the sign.
No, from the point where someone shouts at you, NO RIGHT TURN, and you acknowledge it with a wave and STILL FUCKING SIT THERE holding up all the traffic just so you can perform an illegal manoeuver and save yourself the 60 seconds it would take to go either straight and first right and back around, or left and turn around, then FUCK YOU.
Because FUCK YOU is *exactly* what you are saying to me and everyone else on the road who is trying to drive with some consideration for other road users.
I don’t need to know about your life or divorce or anything else, you’re not a good person like Jack and Diane, you’re a cunt.
Trump was an unknown, now Trump is a known cunt.
Trump isn’t a good person, so his statements about other people being good or bad and worthless, he is in no position to comment.
An american comedian recently made a comment about his “Trump bashing” which had been criticised, he had I have my comedy, trump has the nuclear football, which is itself a sort of comedic statement and true in so far as it goes, which isn’t very far, they are both symbols of the office, the comedian has his jokes, the prezzident has his power.
A better question is this, is the comedian better at being a comedian than the president is at being a president?
Speaking entirely personally I see nothing very comedic about the comedian, and nothing presidential about the president, but at least CNN gets a vote in how both of them get airtime, so they do have something in common after all.
Yanks, Spics, Wogs, Wops, Fags, I have known them all, and counted some as friends, but I’m a storyteller at heart, as are we all, and it kills the story to preface it with 6 pages of disclaimers about the use of the word Fag before I get to the anecdote about “Stephen” and his dyed pink poodle and penchant for silk chiffon scarves and huge hats.. if I wanted advice about commercial property investment or lettings I’d go talk to him, he’d bought up about one and a half business streets in a town that I lived in, one property at a time.
When you’ve got that kind of money you can dress like a raging poof and mince down the road with your pink poodle and get away with it.
William Shatner could be a crap one character actor who couldn’t do anything else, or he could be a great actor emulating a crap one character actor and coining it, who is to know?
Draghi could be a terminally corrupt and incompetent financial loon, or he could be a total fucking genius playing one for immense personal gain.
My friend’s personal Korea anecdote about the yanks could have been entirely true, or entirely false, who knows, we were none of us there, but at no point did either he originally or I in my retelling claim that this was the sum total of all experiences for everyone, or even that it was so common as to be basically true for all.
He had other personal anecdotes, many of which relate to how any individual soldier will feel in the field, when he was sent to Korea along with his mates they had all already been based in the asian peninsula for many years, Peter Stuyvesant (a cigarette brand), you could smell it more than a mile away he said, he said a bunch of other things too, all of them could be taken together and headed “things not to do when sending your troops into combat if you want them to live”
To be fair to him my retelling of his comments here may well have misrepresented what he was saying, he wasn’t specifically saying the yanks were trigger happy cowards with full auto weapons that the sooner they emptied the sooner they could advance towards the rear, nothing wrong with a full auto weapon if the logistics are there to feed it and replenish it constantly.
Lots wrong with it if you go into war half assed, old adolf got LUCKY with the tank blitzkrieg, he managed to over run fuel supplies fast enough to keep up the pace, because logistic fuel supplies were non existent, try that in the jungle and there are no fuel supplies to raid, and no roads to sustain 25 mph on.
When a soldier on the front blames “the yanks” on his flank for emptying their magazines and retreating and exposing his flank, time after time after time, he isn’t complaining about his fellow footsoldier under another flag, he is complaining about the brass sending in poorly supplied troops that even *they* could smell, while admiring the enemy who knew advantage when they saw it, there was a touch of Kipling in every foot soldier, and he did not tell stories of the fucking yanks attacking them or blue on blue, that was usually reserved for the arty, or quartermasters who could send 3 tons of blanco for white webbing that nobody wore in the field, but no quinine for the malaria that everyone caught in the field, along with the trots and trench foot and larvae nesting in your ass crack.
In shades of this, we can talk about whether Assad did or did not sarin his own people, if it was sarin, or not, if they were his people or rebels, if the video was real or white hat propaganda, and on and on and on.
Some all or none of it may be true.
None of that matters, it’s just the backdrop to a story, the story is firing tens of million plus dollar cruise missiles at targets in a sovereign foreign country without an official declaration of war, and then turning around and instructing others on how they should behave.
I am above all reminded of another man, and this is a true personal anecdote, from way back at the beginning of my own personal FRA hell, this was a good man who did all he could to inform me of things, in a field of human interest that I wasn’t even intellectually aware of before my own personal FRA, he was of enormous personal support and help to me, and for that I am forever grateful, but he blanked me on the day, during casual conversation, that I said I could not stand Bloody John Wayne or his bloody cowboy films or bloody war films or bloody any films with John Bloody Wayne in them.
But at the end of the day, I’m just a storyteller, none of my german readers have ever complained (in comment or in email) when I talk about Merkel or the turks or reunification and nor do they take the opportunity to pile in when I talk about the austrians or the swiss or the italians or greeks.
So in the odd instances in my life when I offend someone by saying that John Wayne was not god incarnate, or the yanks may have helped us win the war but it doesn’t explain Pearl or excuse Nagasaki, or Trump turned out as neocon as Hitlary, well, shrugs…
Don’t pull the plug now, I’m having too much fun arguing with this anonymous clown. Had rotator cuff surgery a few weeks back so I’m stuck at home with not much to do.
Comment by some random guy — May 4, 2017 @ 8:41 pm
nooo, not pulling plugs or moderating or refereeing or anything else, the fact is the responses to that post made me think about things and that made me write this one, so from my perspective it’s all good.
and ouch and gws…
Comment by wimminz — May 4, 2017 @ 8:50 pm
Thanks, it hasn’t been the easiest procedure.
Back on the main topic… my father fought in the Korean war, his brother and his brother in law also. My father was infantry, the two uncles were engineers. I spent a good deal of time in Korea myself, nearly two years as an infantryman. I’ve spent many a day and night in the DMZ. Patrols, ambushes, the whole works. My own brother was deployed to Korea no less than three times, That doesn’t stack up to your guys story exactly but between the family connections and having my own ass on the line there I became quite interested in the ongoing conflict.
You see the war never ended, it just went into first gear. Be that as it may my interest drove me to read endless books and personal accounts of the events between ’50 and ’53. Perhaps it’s just a touchy subject with me. I not only put in time there, albeit thirty years later, but I also made a real effort to understand what had gone on there. And probably a bit more than that. It’s all well and good to read an account of some battle saying XXX Batallion attacked Hill 520, well I’ve climbed those hills, in full battle rattle, and when I read I know how goddam lung searing it is to try to advance by rushes up the side of a Korean mountain it is. Or to haul 81mm mortar ammo or water cans.
From my view it would be as if someone were to tell you a thing or two about commercial internet service ( a subject I thankfully know nothing about). None of this negates your overall points in either post excepting that the anecdote certainly didn’t help. I hope this puts a bit of context to what I said before.
Comment by some random guy — May 5, 2017 @ 4:31 am
question.
looking back, who did you have more in common with, the “enemy” or your own generals?
Comment by wimminz — May 5, 2017 @ 4:34 am
That’s a tough call. I learned to not like Koreans, North or South. I also learned to not like Generals via seven years in uniform. The NK soldiers shared my experience on a day to day basis, freezing in winter, baking in summer. Likely the generals did as well back when they were mere lieutenants. The NK soldiers shot at me and I shot at them (as well as other nasty tricks each side used).
I’ll put it another way. I have strong doubts that some former NK soldier and I could sit down and have a beer now that we’re in our fifties. A few years back I had a former army colonel that I did quite a bit of handyman work for. We would have a beer together at the end of my working day but he was no friend either. The beer was him playing lord of the manor taking care of some peasant. His wife paid well for my services so I played his stupid game.
I’ll admit, you’ve got me stumped with that one.
Comment by some random guy — May 5, 2017 @ 4:56 am
None of that matters, it’s just the backdrop to a story, the story is firing tens of million plus dollar cruise missiles at targets in a sovereign foreign country without an official declaration of war, and then turning around and instructing others on how they should behave.
*shrugs*
Trump has every bit as much authorization to do what he did as Obama had to make bombing runs for 4 years. with the exception that Trump didn’t actually put ( extra ) US personnel over combat territory.
“American jets began bombing ISIL in Syria on 23 September 2014, raising U.S. involvement in the country.”
i’m not pleased by the decision but i can see the implications for North Korea.
Comment by bob k. mando — May 4, 2017 @ 9:39 pm
further, in spite of his comments about retrenching the US military, Trump did also explicitly campaign on putting an end to both ISIL and the Norks as threats …
and Syria is inextricably tied up with the ISIL issue. even if that’s mostly because the CIA is funding them.
Comment by bob k. mando — May 4, 2017 @ 9:48 pm
How do we know any of this though, for most of us we are in the same position my mate’s 12 year old boy is in if I tell him Trump is bombing Assad to save the poor people of kekistan and their beautiful babies and chocolate cake factories.
I’m very concerned by the dumbing down in the digital age.
After a chance comment about boiling eggs and determining if they were cooked I spent two hours trawling google and you tube last night, I found nothing but endess dupes about spinning them or using a timer that changed colour, even from so called speciality cookery channels, not a single mention anywhere of what my mother taught me, take it out, if it dries very quickly it is done… if it takes longer than the count of five put it back in for another minute.
Comment by wimminz — May 5, 2017 @ 2:14 am
How do we know any of this though
well if you want to go that way, we don’t know that Trump fired ~50 cruise missiles ( could be 0, could be 5000 ) into a mostly empty airfield ( could have fired them into the water, could have fired them into a children’s hospital in Damascus … or Jerusalem ).
we’re all dependent on hearsay at some level.
as to your hearsay story about US troops on the US mainland training for and being outfitted for a normal camo ( instead of desert camo ) loadout ….
well, we aren’t sending the Carrier Battle Groups to the eastern Med either.
so, what IS the hearsay about where the CBGs are headed? Japan?
oh?
and it’s getting to be springtime on the Korean peninsula?
oh?
and Trump bombed the hell out of an empty Syrian airstrip the same day … he was meeting with a big Red Chinese high mucky-muck?
hrm.
i dunno, mang. it might take a genius to figure this one out.
if you place any credence in the hearsay.
i have been pointing out since Shrub was president that if any solution to Korea was going to be found, it was going to require the participation of China at a minimum. in the 1950s, we were directly engaged with Chinese ground forces and the Russian air force. both China and Russia share a land border with NK.
IF anyone invades NK, and has success
THEN the expectation must be planned for the Chinese ( and possibly Russians ) are going to involve themselves in the conflict.
after all, that’s what ( we are told ) happened last time. and i’m pretty sure we don’t want to get into a shooting war with either China or Russia today.
therefore, from the US point of view, the way to handle Kim Jong (x) is to make public pronouncements that China is a first tier power, that China thus has first power responsibilities, and that it’s a point of honor that *China* get NK into line ( whatever you think “into line” means ).
is this what’s going on? i dunno. Trump did make public pronouncements that the Syrian airfield strike ‘proved’ that he was a ‘man of his word’ and could be depended on. that’s not hearsay, i saw Trump say it.
who is that message for? and what is the back channel message that he has been sending to that party that it would need to be reinforced in this way?
Comment by bob k. mando — May 6, 2017 @ 6:15 pm
Germans, for the most part, are just good people. Ive met many people in my travels, and its rare to come across a people that are overall honest, reliable, and up front.
Or maybe its just easier to relate to people that share similar blood and worldview.
Comment by Undefined — May 6, 2017 @ 1:08 am
Drama, and as always, I’m a week late to the party.
Comment by Boxer — May 6, 2017 @ 4:14 pm