On the contrary, rather than being an informative news source, this ludicrous US-style “show” is merely an infantile attempt at humor, where wrong footage invariably masks any actual news, not to mention the insufferable broken English of the adolescent “reporter”. Really, doesn’t Saker have something better to post?
todays issue had mostly serious news, great, i was unawae of most of it.-the irony and sarcasm highlight the western hegemon’s pathetic attempts which sadly can have terrifying and devastating results.
Suggest you check out truth ukraine facebook etc, sitreps by other commentators are welcome, can you contribute yourself?
In fact, I do agree with “Mats” that the above video is precisely of the kind and level that John Cleese and Monty Python would make.
On the other hand, I never watched Monty Python or Fawlty Towers or The life of Brian or Mr. Bean – when I wanted to learn the world news.
As for your “can you contribute yourself?”, I am neither a professional comedian nor an adolescent amateur nor an idiot to ever dream of replicating the object (or imitate the subject) of your unreserved admiration. I am merely interested in obtaining reliable documentary information about the current war in Novorussia.
Wait a sec. Maybe ‘good information’ is only half the ticket, and our attitude towards it, an at least equally important part.
I, for example, come from the school of the surthrivalists. We – being aware that we are living in Empire (always have, always will) – not only want a) to survive, but b) also to thrive, no matter how dire the current circumstances may be.
Irony, sarcasm, or as i call it, mocking the king, are just one set of surthrival techniques i wouldn’t want to miss in my back-pack. Obviously, there are many other tricks & skills we use to thrive, some very mundane and others – as you might imagine – scary, top level ninja stuff. :-)
Q; Visuals and narrative work like John Cleese comedies.
R; Wit, jesting and humor [in general] are individual interpretations of internal emotions and feelings, which manifest themselves through an array of audible and visual clues, and are thus open to an external elucidation process, one that might differ from case to case and person to person.
On the other hand, I’ve never thought of Death as being something funny.
They should know better, the supposed ” nazis ”
in Ukraine are not supported by any ” far right” parties
in Europe, people, Nationalism is freedom, every state
has a right and obligation to preserve itself, I see Putin
as a strong Russian Nationalist, rebuilding Russia.
Our enemies do not want strong independent countries,
they want vassals.
Only in Russia, this deserves coverage, everyone was there,
including fighters from Donetsk, God Bless them.
This makes my point about funding an effective campaign to counter the western media machine. Here, the Russian government clearly demonstrates its ability to fund museums and parks for tank and historical propaganda exhibitions. But they have no funds to support bakeries in Novorossiya or to buy cameras for independent reporters seeking to undermine the Kiev/Washington media campaign. Makes no sense to me, can somebody explain to me the logic behind this strategy?
It’s not a strategy, it’s a habit. American leaders just do what their grandparents did, and so do Russian leaders. Since the time of Bernais, US leaders have mastered scientific psychological manipulation, while Russian leaders have been satisfied raising their fists, shouting out party or patriotic slogans.
The Russians are still burdened by Marxist ideology, which told them that you cannot just create a revolution. When the Russians finally move, it may be too late.
US leaders instead, are nimble; they see an opportunity, and they just send in a Kermit Roosevel, with a suitcase of dollar bills–one guy, with heavy state support was able to take over Iran. Doing that would be unthinkable for the Kremlin; so, to free Donbass, a few volunteers led by Strelkov had to take the initiative. They held the fort until the state was just forced, by public opinion, to go along.
Exactly the same thing happened in the Yugoslav wars: Belgrade’s propaganda was slow and ponderous. The propaganda from Zagreb, Sarajevo, and Pristina was fast and mendaciously brilliant.
Well done report. The info about intercepting orc provocation plans shows the zionazis have no intention of backing off their aggression against Novorussia.
вот так gives us a good example of old-fashioned Soviet propaganda, heavy on slogans, good for party members and no one else. Slogans that like “Smrt fašizmu” as I read on the wall when I was a boy. In two вот так lines, you we get “intercepting”, “provocation”, “zionazi”, and “aggression.”
While in New York, Samantha may issue tearfully moving declarations on RtoP, Responsibility to Protect, from Moscow they repeat the idiotic party line “no Russian tanks, no Russian soldiers in Donbass.” Why?
All in honor of an old bankrupt slogan, while the Kievans guffaw, as they show off their latest Russian prisoners.
They intercepted it. It was plans for provokation (false flag — nothing new to zionazis).
Zionazis is just one segment of the fascists, but it’s descriptive enough, and may be accurate as for the sector responsible. They are nazis, and much of what they do is supported by zionists — the neocons at least.
Yes, it is aggressive.
It’s not ‘propaganda’ if it’s accurately describing what happens, and the actions do indeed show the intent.
Is telling the truth an ‘idiotic party line’, or just the truth?
Somehow even without massive Russian propaganda — as it is being accused of — the truth gets out, and despite Russia being so inept, disorganized,habituated, and spending money so foolishly (so they say), Russia keeps winning and getting stronger. Rather curious, wouldn’t you say? Perhaps imperialist tactics and policies are not well suited for those in the process of vanquishing the empire.
How is Russia winning if ethnic cleansing is progressing unabated in Donbass. How is she winning if American proxies like Chechen Wahhabi’s entrench without fear next to other NATO structures openly in Donbass, while Russia has to condemn her patriots to junta dungeons by disowning them, all in an effort to keep up the appearance of nonaggression? Seems unnecessarily timid and defensive. This is long past the point when there were any tangible benefits to this policy. Sometimes you have to admit when a policy is failing in order to correct it.
First, it’s necessary to understand that Novorossia is not part of Russia — it’s a different country and you can’t hold Russia responsible for the all the evil there.
Secondly, how much worse would it be if Russia had done nothing and the empire had met no resistance or counters? The world and regional economics and politics has shifted greatly, to the detriment of the empire.
Thirdly, this is still in progress – there are things not yet accomplished.
For example, the ethnic cleansing is not as bad as it would have been without Russia, even if it’s still going on. There is a huge part of Ukraine where it can’t be done, and even in the East there is growing resistance to it, and EU and US are now acknowledging that fascists are running Kiev and are starting to disown them.
The problem is that they keep beating us at the propaganda game. We have all the cards, and they beat us, again and again. They are led by awful characters, neonazis and all, and they still beat us, in the propaganda game, all over the world.
Now we get caught in this absurd lie, “nothing to see here, no Russians here, move along!” — just because the Russians want to pay homage to their pet theory of noninterference.
They are not “Russian Federation troops”. They’re two guys who happened to be born in Russia who joined up with LPR as volunteers, and have papers to prove it. There are high level negotiations to get them back, and Kiev can’t harm them now they’ve been publicised.
What’s going to happen next is, NAF will capture some Americans in fighting, and put them on TV — possibly unable to speak any Russian or Ukrainian but swearing in English. Let USA explain what their “trainers” are doing in combat.
The prisoner says otherwise.
Too many people in Russia say otherwise. There is interview with wounded Siberian veteran. What’s there to hide?
The Saker showed us columns of army vehicles towing howitzers in last August, being paraded around Donetsk.
The West hides dishonest policies behind a mask of probity. Why should Russia hide a just and honourable policy behind a mask of dishonesty.
The first 11 secs of this video show a supposed prisoner supposedly claiming he’s a spy etc. NO AUDIO. Why no audio if that is what he’s actually saying?
Do you have a link to a video where they say so with AUDIO? or are you taking “the prisoner says so” from the press releases of his captors?
No need to read lips, Bacurin from LDNR half admitted these captives were no ordinary soldiers, even though he tried to cover for them by claiming they’re LDNR conscripts. By evening the official story had begun to conform with the Ukie SBU version (they’re still holding on to a thin cover of “former Spetznaz” but you can feel which way the wind is blowing). Btw, if these were as ordinary as Katkan says they are, why was it necessary for the Russian ministry of defense and the Spetznaz veterans association to intervene on behalf of the captives?-
“Defense demands to release ex-military, SBU detained
the Russian defense Ministry demanded an end to torture and the release of former military personnel detained by the SBU in the Luhansk region.
“We are informed about today hosted a joint show of the General staff of Ukraine and the security service devoted detained in the Luhansk region allegedly two Russian soldiers. Captured SBU in the Luhansk region to the Russian citizens Alexander Alexandrov and Evgeny Erofeev at the time of his arrest on 17 may not have been active Armed forces of the Russian Federation”—said the official representative of the defense Ministry major General Igor Konashenkov.
“We checked the information of the Ukrainian side,” these guys previously truly served in one of the joints of the armed forces and have military training. Moreover, I can confirm that we were approached by the leadership of the Association of veterans of special forces with a request to go through official channels to the General staff of Ukraine in order to stop bullying over their wounded comrades from the staff of SBU in the course of knocking out favorable testimony”, he said.
The Association of veterans of special forces emphasizes that it is their urgent request, Konashenkov added.
“I would also like to remind you that during the civil war in the South-East of Ukraine on the territory of the Russian Federation repeatedly detained tens and even hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers and fighters of the so-called territorial battalions. Moreover, the attitude to them is fully consistent with international standards, and after providing the necessary assistance all of them in a short time freely returned to their families. Rely on the prudence of the Ukrainian leadership and the early release of Alexander Alexander and Evgeny Erofeev” — said Konashenkov.
The zionazi/nazi propaganda machine supporting their bandera nazi colony in the Ukraine has quite a interest in this propaganda line.
But like all of their bs, it’s going nowhere. A few fox faggot news viewers will not change the outcome from their couches. Instead, it shows the desperation of the zionazi/nazi straw graspers. ;D
I don’t ‘know’ anything yet, and given that there are other deceptive videos that were made with actors I’m not going to jump to any conclusions.
If they are ‘Russian troops’ (contract people), authorized or not by Russian military, he said they were doing surveillance, which is far short of what NATO and US mercenaries do, including combat.
All this first needs to be sorted out by people with some expertise, and verifications done. Only then can it be concluded that this guy was doing intelligence work outside of the Russian or Novorossian borders.– which seems a very reasonable (and even necessary) thing to do from my POV, and a far cry from the accusations that Russia sent ‘troops’ into the area to fight, or even train. You can bet the US is doing that, and a whole lot more — and that’s even been officially announced.
We can expect this to be blown up and used for propaganda by the US, however, whether it’s fake or not, as is always done.
Sorry Kat Kat – I don’t buy this at all. If the DPR/LPR were going to capture American troops/mercenaries who are in Eastern Ukraine they would have done so by now.
Why on Earth haven’t they captured any of these American soldiers of fortune by now? It makes absolutely no sense.
It is well known – by now – that there are thousands of Americans now in Ukraine – the American Government has made it abundantly clear they have sent American troops into Ukraine to train the Ukrainian army & volunteers. This is not a secret – this is well known public knowledge. Now.
Any capturing of American troops or mercenaries in Ukraine now has ZERO propaganda value – it will be seen as a direct provocation by the average American. Why? Because they’ve now been told Americans are in Ukraine! So what the hell are the “pro-Russians” in Ukraine doing capturing our good Anerican boys who’ve been sent over to Ukraine to help the poor Ukrainians!
That is exactly how the U.S. govt & media will spin it, and that is exactly how your average American will understand it. Surely this is beyond obvious to any serious observer.
The time to capture & parade American troops and mercenaries was before BEFORE the U.S. Govt. officially sent Americans into Ukraine. It is far far too late now to capture Americans and hope for any propaganda value by doing so – it will immediately be turned against DPR/LPR & Russia.
Surely this is obvious.
Also – surely this was obvious months ago, a year ago. I know I made comments on this blog perhaps a year ago to the effect that if DPR/LPR wanted to capture and parade American troops & mercenaries it was beyond obvious that it must be done sooner rather than later to provide maximum propaganda value – to really get average Americans questioning US intervention & meddling in Ukraine and what’s really going on.
It had to be done a year ago precisely because there were going to be US troops inserted into Ukraine in great numbers. There were no secrets about this either – Yats & Porky and the whole sorry crew have been clamouring for US troops in Ukraine since they seized power. So no surprise they are now there – it was telegraphed comprehensively well in advance.
So the question is – will DPR/LPR capture and parade any American troops now or in the near future? Of course not! Why would they bother? If they didn’t want to do it before it makes no sense now.
If they do happen to do it in the future you’d have to question why. Surely they are not so naive to now think it would be a good idea when before it wasn’t? It makes no sense whatsoever.
What also doesn’t make sense is why they wouldn’t have done so a year ago? Why not?
Ukraine’s detention of two “Russian troops” is nothing but a show, Russia’s Defense Ministry said, adding that neither was serving in the Russian Armed Forces at the time of their arrest. It called on Kiev to stop the alleged torture of the men. Following Kiev’s claim that a pair of Russian soldiers had been captured in eastern Ukraine, the ministry said in a statement that its own investigation had revealed that both individuals hold Russian citizenship and had received military training, but neither was serving in the army. Kiev must put an end to its tactic of torturing detainees in order to force confessions, the ministry said. It also passed on a request made by the Veterans Association of Special Forces, urging Kiev “to stop SBU’s abuse of the wounded to get a favorable testimony.”
I love the Southfront news, and the voice of the guy narrating this episode.
And yeah, that tank park money should be spent on this website and others like it. Why doesn’t Russia help people like the Saker to help Russia?
Because most of us are in the West.We give a lot of thought to who is winning the “propaganda war” (me included).But I’m not sure if Russia is as concerned with who in the West believes them or not.Certainly they care some,no doubt there.But overall I think the government is more concerned if their military is ready for war,and the nuclear weapons primed.Because at the end of the day.It is those things that will secure Russia,not propaganda.We here have no real say in how we are governed.Not a single candidate with a snowballs chance in hell of winning an election in the West is pro-Russian.Certainly not in any meaningful way (or really in any way).So unless we here are going to go to the barricades with weapons.Or trek to Donbass and join the militia.Then we don’t really have a say.It would be nice if they could think that if they spent a lot of money on more propaganda (in their case,just “the truth”).That people in the West would rise against their regimes and overthrow them.But I don’t see that happening without a massive military or economic collapse first,and I think the Russians think that way too.So there we have it.I hope they will spend more (and wisely) on getting their views out.But in the meantime that’s our job,to tell the truth.
Like most here, I think Russia can’t be satisfied that the media in countries such as the Ukraine and Serbia have been overwhelmingly anti-Russian over the last decade. It shows that the Kremlin has been far too concerned with the views of local elites as opposed to the broader public. Those local elites were and are not independent if their money and families are in the West. Of course, it was hard for Putin to complain about this if the same thing applied for a large percentage of the Russian elite as well.
However, at the end of the day, the world is ruled by force. Serbia didn’t have the power to win. It wouldn’t have mattered how many writers for the NY Times might have been receiving bribes from the Kremlin. The West is dominated by a financial oligarchy that is going to put what they want on the TV. So it perhaps make more sense to suggest that Russia do a better job with media and especially school textbooks in key countries, but it is really hopeless to think that, say, Canada can be changed.
I think Russia is only just now waking up to the role of media in other countries. Media has changed tremendously in the past 10 years, and Russia is not where it first changed.
Ukraine is the first Smart Phone War. The first war where fighters on both sides take their phones with them into battle, do selfies in the thick of it, and actually get signal to be able to transmit it (because it is also the first war in a long time conducted entirely in urban areas but without aerial bombing of infrastructure).
This has given the whole world a blow by blow view of what it really happening, that no amount of official propaganda has been able to totally obliterate. We see the action, then see what both sides are saying about it. So we can judge for ourselves how they are spinning it.
Russia has not fully caught up with the need to do their spinning instantly. It is just not good enough to release important news, important speeches, with NO TRANSLATIONS for days or weeks. Or at all.
With the widespread Immortal Regiment marches for Victory Day, in so many countries, perhaps…. just perhaps… they’ve woken up that a lot of the world IS watching what happens in Russia. And may start to make it more accessible.
Colour revolutions only work because there is “people power” in many nations. Maybe not, maybe it’s more “leader weakness” but mobilizing the people works. People ARE watching Russia. If they made it a bit easier, those people would be less susceptible to the phoney stories from the other side. So it’s more about educating people, rather than propaganda of the type they were used to doing in the past.
I think Russia is only just now waking up to the role of media in other countries.
It’s not about waking up to it. Russia (USSR prior) had absolutely no control what corporate fascist/zio-fascist western media said about them. Zero, none, no influence in their portrayal by that media whatsoever. Ever. They still don’t.
How many western media outlets does Russia have a say in what’s said?
Effectively, 0.
The zionazi/nazi media establishment in the “west” has systematically shut out the views of non-ZPC/NWO governments (to be heard, you gotta be a colony, and if you’re a colony, you got nothing worthwhile to say – the modern “Catch 22” in the zionazi establishment).
To gain a say in the western zionazi/nazi oligarchies, the Russian viewpoint would need effective access to the people occupied by these ZPC/NWO regimes and that is effectively denied for the most part. Hell, it’s denied to the locals, as well, if they are not zionazi automatons.
Blaming Russia because the zionazified western oligarchy denies them media access to western audiences is the same sort of blame the victim nonsense of blaming a rape victim for wearing “x” clothing for the crime perpetuated against her.
And what do we have in the West? Only the most deprived, debased, patronizing, war-mongering, traumatizing, pornographic 5th Column Propaganda disguised as family-friendly Media. It stinks to high heaven! And every sincere and brave journalist who tries to brake the spell gets lost in the forest. Even in areas where there are no forests.
Their business is the creation of splendid little wars, and occasional big ones.
Remember the Maine, the Lusitania, the Tonking Gulf Incident, the Trnopolje Death Camp, the Racak Massacre, the Babies out of Incubators Tale, the Yellow Cake Story, the Libyan Misurata Massacre, the Syrian Sarin, the Jews Must Report to Donetsk Caper.
MH17 was the most effective trick to turn European and US public opinion against Russia.
The Russians helped tremendously, by
1. advising Donetsk to wait for the Western investigators and body collectors
2. not sending to Donetsk enough artillery to move the front away from Torez
3. not taking control of the crash investigation
4. advising Donetsk to release black boxes
5. allowing Russian media to publish Western disinformation with impunity. The fake photo of the shoot down is your basic memorable image–together with the image of the NRA soldier with the child toy.
Matt, why not just blame Russia for not putting the plane back together and flying again?
The story you link is garbage, yet another rehash of the fraudulent bellingcat analysis of the fake BUK videos, and only 740,000 people watched it nationwide (or at least had their TVs on that channel).
Every single item you say “helped” turn the world against Russia would have been a lot worse, if they’d done what you seem to think they should have done.
So you reckon ; The Russians helped tremendously, by
1. advising Donetsk to wait for the Western investigators and body collectors
— they gave no such advice: Donetsk started picking up the bodies immediately, and that is the normal thing to do
2. not sending to Donetsk enough artillery to move the front away from Torez
— so running the front line fight right through the crash zone would have been an improvement? when they were already being accused on arming the rebels or having invaded with their own army? really good idea to openly send in artillery when foreign investigators are going to be there?
3. not taking control of the crash investigation
— there are international agreements and protocols about air crash investigations and who may take part in them. Investigators (or body pickier-uppers, for that matter, or emergency rescuers) can’t just waltz in to another country and start working. Even less so when that other country is ALREADY accusing them of having invaded that country.
4. advising Donetsk to release black boxes
— we don’t know that they did so advise them. Russia was already being internationally demonised on the (false) rumours that they’d end up with the black boxes. Donetsk handed them to the rightful recipients, the official investigators, all above board like everything else they did about this crash.
5. allowing Russian media to publish Western disinformation with impunity. The fake photo of the shoot down is your basic memorable image–together with the image of the NRA soldier with the child toy.
— Russia does not have Government censorship of the media. They have no mechanism for “not allowing them to publish” items of your choice. In any case these images would be seen by Russians, who’d not be influences against Russia by them and/or would see the same on Western media anyway.
Please stop and think before you post, Matt. Russia’s actions did not “help” the demonisation campaign. By not responding to these provocations they destroyed it. The idea was not to make Russia look bad. The idea was to make Russia REACT in a way that would make an excuse to attack Russia. All your bright suggestions would have led just to that. Thank heavens you are not in charge of anything bigger than a keyboard.
I just want to touch on one point – the Black Boxes & also the ATC recordings.
I know at the time of the MH17 crash the widespread consensus here was that Russia no doubt took recordings off the Black Boxes, and probably also had copies of the relevant ATC conversations with MH17.
If we assume the consensus here was and is correct, why on Earth hasn’t Russia released the Black Box recordings, what are they waiting for?
Why don’t they attempt to clear their name in relation to MH17? Even Kolo (the man most likely responsible) has now been sidelined in Ukraine and marginalised.
If Russia has evidence that it was in fact Kolo responsible that evidence is now fairly useless. Clearly Kolo has built up oligarchic enemies in Ukraine – any attempt to blame Kolo now will be used by rival Ukrainian oligarchs (and the West) to tar Kolo and smear him as a pro-Russian stooge who was actually working against the freedom loving people of Ukraine and secretly advance the interests of Russia.
Given that, I’m starting to be inclined to believe Kolo had nothing to do with MH17 – else Russia would have exposed his involvement at the time he was seen as close to the Porky Regime.
There is little point in blaming him now.
If Russia therefore has evidence of CIA/Mossad involvement then – why does it not officially stand behind the evidence it does have and publicly release it – certainly enough time has now elapsed and most have now moved on with the understanding Russia is in fact to blame for MH17.
Can anyone tell me exactly what Russia is waiting for? Or are they in fact (for whatever reason) just not that interested in clearing their name in the eyes of the global public.
Julian, Russia has recordings from Rostov ATC, which is only from the period starting with Dnepro contacting them about the proposed route (vector to a waypoint near Rostov then direct). At this stage Dnepro could also hear the plane, as it was meant to be talking to them in a moment. This has been released as a transcript in Russian and translated to English. It just says about the waypoints, then both ATCOs realising the plane’s gone off the radar and is not answering. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mh17-transcript-of-flights-last-moments-reveals-frantic-efforts-to-contact-disappeared-plane-9720715.html
Go Ctrl+ a few times to see the transcript properly.
Russia never had the black boxes. Media kept claiming they would get them or had already gotten them, for several days before they were actually found — they were close together in the wheatfield across the road from that big tail section. It was filmed — a searcher waving, others going over, the searcher carrying it in both hands to the truck. Not rebels, but Kiev Emergency Services employees. Later that same night they were handed over to Malaysian government reps at the then Prime Minister Borodai’s office in Donetsk.
The data recorder would not be expected to have anything useful on it. It would show course changes, but their significance or otherwise would have to come from other sources. The voice recorder could contain all sorts of interesting items, in theory, again about routing. Comments about or to an escorting fighter would go through to ATC, too, whether on the normal or emergency channel. The Dutch said nothing abnormal on it, but it would be nice to hear it (all channels).
Russia has the radars it has already shown, but much better copies and video type recording, not stills. they MAY have something on satellite they’ve never mentioned. Or spy plane. Assets they may not want to expose right now. They may have something small to hold up their sleeve, too.
I really don’t see “clearing our name” as being a big issue for Putin. Why knock yourself out to please, or look good to, people who’ve openly stated over years that they want to destroy you? Slaves might grovel to get better treatment. Sovereign people/states get what they need for themselves. Russia has the respect of the people who matter, and that number seems to be growing daily.
Maybe not quite waking up, just a lot of change and upheaval in the society.
15 years ago Russian media was controlled by oligarch groups; by now this is largely gone and a lot of control came back to state, a bit reminiscent of the Soviet Union days. At present the government is mostly into power, less so soft power (and a lot on the plate on top of the media).
In the meantime, there is a long tradition of having a lot of talent on the side of independents, not easily controlled by either state or oligarchs; those independents better connect mentally in Russia than power or money players; but too disorganized and fractured for a robust play internationally
Russian independent journalists are often widely known still ( late Politkovskaia) and have/had serious impact. It seems to be that Western independents are mostly known in Russia (Paul C Roberts, Robert Parry, and the like, have some coverage and impact in Russia but seems to have essentially none in the West).
It’s similar to other areas, independents running for office in Russia are (still) kind of feared; in the English-speaking West, it’s like a yawn and zero impact
If public opinion cannot be changed anyway, if all that counts is to maintain political correctness, let’s just get stoned out of our mind. And here is a nice strong rope; it will solve all our problems in a few seconds
Well, all the whining and negativity in this thread forced me to watch the clip. Two straight stories densely filled with no-nonsense reporting, one short piece that was surreal and not to my taste and very easy to ignore. Net result, a huge positive. Thank you once again, South Front – a miracle something like this can even get produced in the heat of battle.
As for the bitching about Russia, and how it’s losing the info war, making all the wrong moves, and generally not doing enough to help – words fail me. Have you learned nothing here?
The ingratitude, impatience and negativity of some of the armchair tacticians in these threads never cease to amaze me. It seems like being in a house burning down and insisting on a conversion chart between Fahrenheit and Centigrade.
(Pssst… don’t tell anyone, but it’s not always easy to tell the difference between people who just disagree, or are misinformed or wrongheaded, or are working from the other side. Remember — I didn’t say that.)
Here above, four nice optimist Oblomovists complain about negativity; they think they support Russia, when they really defend the passive thought pattern of the anti-war camp in the West–note that we never managed to stop a single war.
I listed a few tragic successes of the Western fraudsters: the Trnopolje Death Camp to start Bosnia bombing, the Racak Massacre to start Kosovo war, the Babies out of Incubators Tale to create rage in favor of Iraq 1991, the Yellow Cake Story, the Libyan Misurata Ghadafi air force attack, the Syrian Sarin, the Jews Must Report to Donetsk Caper (“JMRDC”), and the MH17. Each of them worked perfectly, to start or give impetus to a new war. Proving the fraud later, does not give life back to the dead.
JMRDC was run against the DPR, MH17 was run against Russia.
The Syrian Sarin Caper remains scripture; with HRW blessing, the destruction of Syria merrily proceeds.
The 60 Minutes story is not “garbage”, it’s a brilliant successful fraud.
These five point do not give what I say should have been done by Russia or Donetsk, only what would have been normally done by any NATO government in such a situation.
1. Waiting for the Dutch collectors, Donetsk allowed the bodies to rot for three days. Donetsk fell for the trick. Dumb.
2. The front was beyond the crash zone. The areas where Kiev’s BUKs were, was the most strategically valuable territory in the Ukraine and could have been taken.
3. Mention one crash investigation in Europe that has not been managed by the country where the plane crashed. DPR had the right and duty to run the investigation, provide the building where the plane was to be put together, and supervise an international commission of experts.
4. There are no rightful recipients in wartime.
5. Governments have the means to pressure editors against committing treason, intentionally or by stupidity. Sixty Minutes presents that fake photo as the Russian version events.
Matt stop posting lies and nonsense here. After 10 months you should know the facts and strop sprouting rubbish eve the MSM sources have stopped posting.
1. Waiting for the Dutch collectors, Donetsk allowed the bodies to rot for three days. Donetsk fell for the trick. Dumb.
— They started picking up bodies on day one (and later got criticized for doing so). The “letting them to rot” was garbage being sprouted at the same time the news video clearly showed them being picked up.
2. The front was beyond the crash zone. The areas where Kiev’s BUKs were, was the most strategically valuable territory in the Ukraine and could have been taken.
— ahh, so under cover of an air crash they should have grabbed other territory? and nobody was going to notice or blame Russia for it?? when the whole idea of the whole thing was to have something to blame Russia with? that’s like hiding from the police by smashing your car into the police station.
3. Mention one crash investigation in Europe that has not been managed by the country where the plane crashed. DPR had the right and duty to run the investigation, provide the building where the plane was to be put together, and supervise an international commission of experts.
— mention one air crash investigation that was done by a newly formed unrecognised state still involved in its foundation civil war? name a suitable (size and security) building in Donbass to use for reconstruction.
4. There are no rightful recipients in wartime.
— now you are really displaying ignorance. The rightful recipient of the black boxes does not vary with war or peace. That recipient is the investigation team, which may include the crash site State, aircraft and engine manufacturers’ nations, operator’s nation, pilot and passengers’ nations etc.; additionally they may contract a nation with appropriate technology to assist.
5. Governments have the means to pressure editors against committing treason, intentionally or by stupidity. Sixty Minutes presents that fake photo as the Russian version events.
— the news outlets are not required to have their content approved before publication/broadcast. So they cannot be prevented; maybe only punished afterwards.
The TV report contained nothing that has not already been canvassed dozens of times, and debunked just as many times. There is nothing “brilliantly successful” about it at all. It is old junk rehashed, and was not a success first time around either. And hardly anybody watched it. It is a pity that you not only watched it but fell for it.
At any rate, you seem to be pushing a strong MSM story line here. Whether for trolling or from ignorance, I don’t know. But you are refusing to learn, just digging yourself in deeper. You’re going to fall through altogether soon, don’t be surprised if further efforts like this don’t get published.
By the way, I see that Oblomovist is very negatively defined in the dictionary. I had no intention to offend, I meant to indicate a Slavic tendency to optimism, discussion, and perpetual detailed planning, before any decisive action is undertaken.
I’m not who all your oblomovist name calling is directed towards, but you attempts to get Russia to engage in war or change it’s policies are not going anywhere, and I don’t see that policy as motivated by laziness or passivity. Empire has been trying to goad Russia into war or rash action all along, and has been unsuccessful. Russia will win this in the way it chooses.
I have followed the Saker long enough, to know that there is a Fifth Column in Russia. The real threat is not defeat, it’s nuclear war.
Oblomovism is not laziness, it’s compulsive perpetual planning, of which the peace faction all over the world has suffered from since the Spanish Civil War.
I don’t share your despair one bit about arguments and debate.
In the most successful societies big issues, strategies, tactics and all of the above are rigorously debated, assertions challenged and tested, assumptions questioned and eventually smart people by debating these hard to talk about topics reach some sort of consensus on the right course of action.
It is precisely this lack of rigorous debate that we have seen in the West in the past 15-20 years that is a hallmark of the decline of the West in March Tal and increasingly real terms!!
The Iraq War and the infantile clamour to “get” Saddam are a prime example of this! I could also add the complete silence in the media about WTC building 7 and all the obvious questions that raises – but I’ll leave it to another day.
In the meantime – this is a great article about the unthinking zombie like media “pile-on” on a truly worthwhile journalist Sy Hersh, that precisely demonstrates how the incestuous media/government complex works in the U.S. (and the broader West) at the moment.
Well worth a read – it’s nice to know there are still some journalists out there with the capacity to formulate their own thoughts and diverge completely from whatever the day’s odious “talking points” are.
SouthFront is the wittiest news source on the Internet. Visuals and narrative work like John Cleese comedies.
On the contrary, rather than being an informative news source, this ludicrous US-style “show” is merely an infantile attempt at humor, where wrong footage invariably masks any actual news, not to mention the insufferable broken English of the adolescent “reporter”. Really, doesn’t Saker have something better to post?
I like it.
I don’t
todays issue had mostly serious news, great, i was unawae of most of it.-the irony and sarcasm highlight the western hegemon’s pathetic attempts which sadly can have terrifying and devastating results.
Suggest you check out truth ukraine facebook etc, sitreps by other commentators are welcome, can you contribute yourself?
@ JJ
In fact, I do agree with “Mats” that the above video is precisely of the kind and level that John Cleese and Monty Python would make.
On the other hand, I never watched Monty Python or Fawlty Towers or The life of Brian or Mr. Bean – when I wanted to learn the world news.
As for your “can you contribute yourself?”, I am neither a professional comedian nor an adolescent amateur nor an idiot to ever dream of replicating the object (or imitate the subject) of your unreserved admiration. I am merely interested in obtaining reliable documentary information about the current war in Novorussia.
Wait a sec. Maybe ‘good information’ is only half the ticket, and our attitude towards it, an at least equally important part.
I, for example, come from the school of the surthrivalists. We – being aware that we are living in Empire (always have, always will) – not only want a) to survive, but b) also to thrive, no matter how dire the current circumstances may be.
Irony, sarcasm, or as i call it, mocking the king, are just one set of surthrival techniques i wouldn’t want to miss in my back-pack. Obviously, there are many other tricks & skills we use to thrive, some very mundane and others – as you might imagine – scary, top level ninja stuff. :-)
There is nothing funny about death. Grow up.
@ Mats,
Q; Visuals and narrative work like John Cleese comedies.
R; Wit, jesting and humor [in general] are individual interpretations of internal emotions and feelings, which manifest themselves through an array of audible and visual clues, and are thus open to an external elucidation process, one that might differ from case to case and person to person.
On the other hand, I’ve never thought of Death as being something funny.
@ Daniel Rich
Ditto.
Southfront slanders supporters, associates them with murderers, and then some, this is a disgrace, nonsense,
https://www.facebook.com/SouthFrontEN/photos/a.618268324944343.1073741828.617555095015666/713594185411756/?type=1
For the record,
Southfront removed the post,
They should know better, the supposed ” nazis ”
in Ukraine are not supported by any ” far right” parties
in Europe, people, Nationalism is freedom, every state
has a right and obligation to preserve itself, I see Putin
as a strong Russian Nationalist, rebuilding Russia.
Our enemies do not want strong independent countries,
they want vassals.
Only in Russia, this deserves coverage, everyone was there,
including fighters from Donetsk, God Bless them.
http://www.amren.com/news/2015/03/report-from-saint-petersburg/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBgMWjtJJ4Q
This makes my point about funding an effective campaign to counter the western media machine. Here, the Russian government clearly demonstrates its ability to fund museums and parks for tank and historical propaganda exhibitions. But they have no funds to support bakeries in Novorossiya or to buy cameras for independent reporters seeking to undermine the Kiev/Washington media campaign. Makes no sense to me, can somebody explain to me the logic behind this strategy?
It’s not a strategy, it’s a habit. American leaders just do what their grandparents did, and so do Russian leaders. Since the time of Bernais, US leaders have mastered scientific psychological manipulation, while Russian leaders have been satisfied raising their fists, shouting out party or patriotic slogans.
The Russians are still burdened by Marxist ideology, which told them that you cannot just create a revolution. When the Russians finally move, it may be too late.
US leaders instead, are nimble; they see an opportunity, and they just send in a Kermit Roosevel, with a suitcase of dollar bills–one guy, with heavy state support was able to take over Iran. Doing that would be unthinkable for the Kremlin; so, to free Donbass, a few volunteers led by Strelkov had to take the initiative. They held the fort until the state was just forced, by public opinion, to go along.
Exactly the same thing happened in the Yugoslav wars: Belgrade’s propaganda was slow and ponderous. The propaganda from Zagreb, Sarajevo, and Pristina was fast and mendaciously brilliant.
Brad Cabana has written a piece on what ISIS really is and what the fall of Ramadi means for luring Iran into a ground war in Iraq vs the Saudis and the US:
http://rocksolidpolitics.blogspot.ca/2015/05/isis-frankenstein-or-bait.html?spref=tw
Well done report. The info about intercepting orc provocation plans shows the zionazis have no intention of backing off their aggression against Novorussia.
вот так gives us a good example of old-fashioned Soviet propaganda, heavy on slogans, good for party members and no one else. Slogans that like “Smrt fašizmu” as I read on the wall when I was a boy. In two вот так lines, you we get “intercepting”, “provocation”, “zionazi”, and “aggression.”
While in New York, Samantha may issue tearfully moving declarations on RtoP, Responsibility to Protect, from Moscow they repeat the idiotic party line “no Russian tanks, no Russian soldiers in Donbass.” Why?
All in honor of an old bankrupt slogan, while the Kievans guffaw, as they show off their latest Russian prisoners.
They intercepted it. It was plans for provokation (false flag — nothing new to zionazis).
Zionazis is just one segment of the fascists, but it’s descriptive enough, and may be accurate as for the sector responsible. They are nazis, and much of what they do is supported by zionists — the neocons at least.
Yes, it is aggressive.
It’s not ‘propaganda’ if it’s accurately describing what happens, and the actions do indeed show the intent.
Is telling the truth an ‘idiotic party line’, or just the truth?
Somehow even without massive Russian propaganda — as it is being accused of — the truth gets out, and despite Russia being so inept, disorganized,habituated, and spending money so foolishly (so they say), Russia keeps winning and getting stronger. Rather curious, wouldn’t you say? Perhaps imperialist tactics and policies are not well suited for those in the process of vanquishing the empire.
How is Russia winning if ethnic cleansing is progressing unabated in Donbass. How is she winning if American proxies like Chechen Wahhabi’s entrench without fear next to other NATO structures openly in Donbass, while Russia has to condemn her patriots to junta dungeons by disowning them, all in an effort to keep up the appearance of nonaggression? Seems unnecessarily timid and defensive. This is long past the point when there were any tangible benefits to this policy. Sometimes you have to admit when a policy is failing in order to correct it.
It’s wise to do everything possible to avoid nuclear war.
It’s unwise to disown soldiers sent into battle.
First, it’s necessary to understand that Novorossia is not part of Russia — it’s a different country and you can’t hold Russia responsible for the all the evil there.
Secondly, how much worse would it be if Russia had done nothing and the empire had met no resistance or counters? The world and regional economics and politics has shifted greatly, to the detriment of the empire.
Thirdly, this is still in progress – there are things not yet accomplished.
For example, the ethnic cleansing is not as bad as it would have been without Russia, even if it’s still going on. There is a huge part of Ukraine where it can’t be done, and even in the East there is growing resistance to it, and EU and US are now acknowledging that fascists are running Kiev and are starting to disown them.
I said ‘winning’, not ‘won’.
The problem is that they keep beating us at the propaganda game. We have all the cards, and they beat us, again and again. They are led by awful characters, neonazis and all, and they still beat us, in the propaganda game, all over the world.
Now we get caught in this absurd lie, “nothing to see here, no Russians here, move along!” — just because the Russians want to pay homage to their pet theory of noninterference.
They are not “Russian Federation troops”. They’re two guys who happened to be born in Russia who joined up with LPR as volunteers, and have papers to prove it. There are high level negotiations to get them back, and Kiev can’t harm them now they’ve been publicised.
What’s going to happen next is, NAF will capture some Americans in fighting, and put them on TV — possibly unable to speak any Russian or Ukrainian but swearing in English. Let USA explain what their “trainers” are doing in combat.
The prisoner says otherwise.
Too many people in Russia say otherwise. There is interview with wounded Siberian veteran. What’s there to hide?
The Saker showed us columns of army vehicles towing howitzers in last August, being paraded around Donetsk.
The West hides dishonest policies behind a mask of probity. Why should Russia hide a just and honourable policy behind a mask of dishonesty.
Can you LIP-READ RUSSIAN?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p09tKd9UIjE
The first 11 secs of this video show a supposed prisoner supposedly claiming he’s a spy etc. NO AUDIO. Why no audio if that is what he’s actually saying?
Do you have a link to a video where they say so with AUDIO? or are you taking “the prisoner says so” from the press releases of his captors?
The video can easily be found on the net, have a look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TotTleGajV4
No need to read lips, Bacurin from LDNR half admitted these captives were no ordinary soldiers, even though he tried to cover for them by claiming they’re LDNR conscripts. By evening the official story had begun to conform with the Ukie SBU version (they’re still holding on to a thin cover of “former Spetznaz” but you can feel which way the wind is blowing). Btw, if these were as ordinary as Katkan says they are, why was it necessary for the Russian ministry of defense and the Spetznaz veterans association to intervene on behalf of the captives?-
“Defense demands to release ex-military, SBU detained
the Russian defense Ministry demanded an end to torture and the release of former military personnel detained by the SBU in the Luhansk region.
“We are informed about today hosted a joint show of the General staff of Ukraine and the security service devoted detained in the Luhansk region allegedly two Russian soldiers. Captured SBU in the Luhansk region to the Russian citizens Alexander Alexandrov and Evgeny Erofeev at the time of his arrest on 17 may not have been active Armed forces of the Russian Federation”—said the official representative of the defense Ministry major General Igor Konashenkov.
“We checked the information of the Ukrainian side,” these guys previously truly served in one of the joints of the armed forces and have military training. Moreover, I can confirm that we were approached by the leadership of the Association of veterans of special forces with a request to go through official channels to the General staff of Ukraine in order to stop bullying over their wounded comrades from the staff of SBU in the course of knocking out favorable testimony”, he said.
The Association of veterans of special forces emphasizes that it is their urgent request, Konashenkov added.
“I would also like to remind you that during the civil war in the South-East of Ukraine on the territory of the Russian Federation repeatedly detained tens and even hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers and fighters of the so-called territorial battalions. Moreover, the attitude to them is fully consistent with international standards, and after providing the necessary assistance all of them in a short time freely returned to their families. Rely on the prudence of the Ukrainian leadership and the early release of Alexander Alexander and Evgeny Erofeev” — said Konashenkov.
Jovi on May 19, 2015 · at 1:45 am UTC
The zionazi/nazi propaganda machine supporting their bandera nazi colony in the Ukraine has quite a interest in this propaganda line.
But like all of their bs, it’s going nowhere. A few fox faggot news viewers will not change the outcome from their couches. Instead, it shows the desperation of the zionazi/nazi straw graspers. ;D
It’s good to supply links to sources.
I don’t ‘know’ anything yet, and given that there are other deceptive videos that were made with actors I’m not going to jump to any conclusions.
If they are ‘Russian troops’ (contract people), authorized or not by Russian military, he said they were doing surveillance, which is far short of what NATO and US mercenaries do, including combat.
All this first needs to be sorted out by people with some expertise, and verifications done. Only then can it be concluded that this guy was doing intelligence work outside of the Russian or Novorossian borders.– which seems a very reasonable (and even necessary) thing to do from my POV, and a far cry from the accusations that Russia sent ‘troops’ into the area to fight, or even train. You can bet the US is doing that, and a whole lot more — and that’s even been officially announced.
We can expect this to be blown up and used for propaganda by the US, however, whether it’s fake or not, as is always done.
Sorry Kat Kat – I don’t buy this at all. If the DPR/LPR were going to capture American troops/mercenaries who are in Eastern Ukraine they would have done so by now.
Why on Earth haven’t they captured any of these American soldiers of fortune by now? It makes absolutely no sense.
It is well known – by now – that there are thousands of Americans now in Ukraine – the American Government has made it abundantly clear they have sent American troops into Ukraine to train the Ukrainian army & volunteers. This is not a secret – this is well known public knowledge. Now.
Any capturing of American troops or mercenaries in Ukraine now has ZERO propaganda value – it will be seen as a direct provocation by the average American. Why? Because they’ve now been told Americans are in Ukraine! So what the hell are the “pro-Russians” in Ukraine doing capturing our good Anerican boys who’ve been sent over to Ukraine to help the poor Ukrainians!
That is exactly how the U.S. govt & media will spin it, and that is exactly how your average American will understand it. Surely this is beyond obvious to any serious observer.
The time to capture & parade American troops and mercenaries was before BEFORE the U.S. Govt. officially sent Americans into Ukraine. It is far far too late now to capture Americans and hope for any propaganda value by doing so – it will immediately be turned against DPR/LPR & Russia.
Surely this is obvious.
Also – surely this was obvious months ago, a year ago. I know I made comments on this blog perhaps a year ago to the effect that if DPR/LPR wanted to capture and parade American troops & mercenaries it was beyond obvious that it must be done sooner rather than later to provide maximum propaganda value – to really get average Americans questioning US intervention & meddling in Ukraine and what’s really going on.
It had to be done a year ago precisely because there were going to be US troops inserted into Ukraine in great numbers. There were no secrets about this either – Yats & Porky and the whole sorry crew have been clamouring for US troops in Ukraine since they seized power. So no surprise they are now there – it was telegraphed comprehensively well in advance.
So the question is – will DPR/LPR capture and parade any American troops now or in the near future? Of course not! Why would they bother? If they didn’t want to do it before it makes no sense now.
If they do happen to do it in the future you’d have to question why. Surely they are not so naive to now think it would be a good idea when before it wasn’t? It makes no sense whatsoever.
What also doesn’t make sense is why they wouldn’t have done so a year ago? Why not?
take a break, matt, maybe after a good night’s sleep you will feel better.
Update from today’s news report. Not Russian troops, but yet another Ukrainian lie. Not a surprise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jq0M3-E13WA
Ukraine’s detention of two “Russian troops” is nothing but a show, Russia’s Defense Ministry said, adding that neither was serving in the Russian Armed Forces at the time of their arrest. It called on Kiev to stop the alleged torture of the men. Following Kiev’s claim that a pair of Russian soldiers had been captured in eastern Ukraine, the ministry said in a statement that its own investigation had revealed that both individuals hold Russian citizenship and had received military training, but neither was serving in the army. Kiev must put an end to its tactic of torturing detainees in order to force confessions, the ministry said. It also passed on a request made by the Veterans Association of Special Forces, urging Kiev “to stop SBU’s abuse of the wounded to get a favorable testimony.”
I love the Southfront news, and the voice of the guy narrating this episode.
And yeah, that tank park money should be spent on this website and others like it. Why doesn’t Russia help people like the Saker to help Russia?
Because most of us are in the West.We give a lot of thought to who is winning the “propaganda war” (me included).But I’m not sure if Russia is as concerned with who in the West believes them or not.Certainly they care some,no doubt there.But overall I think the government is more concerned if their military is ready for war,and the nuclear weapons primed.Because at the end of the day.It is those things that will secure Russia,not propaganda.We here have no real say in how we are governed.Not a single candidate with a snowballs chance in hell of winning an election in the West is pro-Russian.Certainly not in any meaningful way (or really in any way).So unless we here are going to go to the barricades with weapons.Or trek to Donbass and join the militia.Then we don’t really have a say.It would be nice if they could think that if they spent a lot of money on more propaganda (in their case,just “the truth”).That people in the West would rise against their regimes and overthrow them.But I don’t see that happening without a massive military or economic collapse first,and I think the Russians think that way too.So there we have it.I hope they will spend more (and wisely) on getting their views out.But in the meantime that’s our job,to tell the truth.
Like most here, I think Russia can’t be satisfied that the media in countries such as the Ukraine and Serbia have been overwhelmingly anti-Russian over the last decade. It shows that the Kremlin has been far too concerned with the views of local elites as opposed to the broader public. Those local elites were and are not independent if their money and families are in the West. Of course, it was hard for Putin to complain about this if the same thing applied for a large percentage of the Russian elite as well.
However, at the end of the day, the world is ruled by force. Serbia didn’t have the power to win. It wouldn’t have mattered how many writers for the NY Times might have been receiving bribes from the Kremlin. The West is dominated by a financial oligarchy that is going to put what they want on the TV. So it perhaps make more sense to suggest that Russia do a better job with media and especially school textbooks in key countries, but it is really hopeless to think that, say, Canada can be changed.
I think Russia is only just now waking up to the role of media in other countries. Media has changed tremendously in the past 10 years, and Russia is not where it first changed.
Ukraine is the first Smart Phone War. The first war where fighters on both sides take their phones with them into battle, do selfies in the thick of it, and actually get signal to be able to transmit it (because it is also the first war in a long time conducted entirely in urban areas but without aerial bombing of infrastructure).
This has given the whole world a blow by blow view of what it really happening, that no amount of official propaganda has been able to totally obliterate. We see the action, then see what both sides are saying about it. So we can judge for ourselves how they are spinning it.
Russia has not fully caught up with the need to do their spinning instantly. It is just not good enough to release important news, important speeches, with NO TRANSLATIONS for days or weeks. Or at all.
With the widespread Immortal Regiment marches for Victory Day, in so many countries, perhaps…. just perhaps… they’ve woken up that a lot of the world IS watching what happens in Russia. And may start to make it more accessible.
Colour revolutions only work because there is “people power” in many nations. Maybe not, maybe it’s more “leader weakness” but mobilizing the people works. People ARE watching Russia. If they made it a bit easier, those people would be less susceptible to the phoney stories from the other side. So it’s more about educating people, rather than propaganda of the type they were used to doing in the past.
I think Russia is only just now waking up to the role of media in other countries.
It’s not about waking up to it. Russia (USSR prior) had absolutely no control what corporate fascist/zio-fascist western media said about them. Zero, none, no influence in their portrayal by that media whatsoever. Ever. They still don’t.
How many western media outlets does Russia have a say in what’s said?
Effectively, 0.
The zionazi/nazi media establishment in the “west” has systematically shut out the views of non-ZPC/NWO governments (to be heard, you gotta be a colony, and if you’re a colony, you got nothing worthwhile to say – the modern “Catch 22” in the zionazi establishment).
To gain a say in the western zionazi/nazi oligarchies, the Russian viewpoint would need effective access to the people occupied by these ZPC/NWO regimes and that is effectively denied for the most part. Hell, it’s denied to the locals, as well, if they are not zionazi automatons.
Blaming Russia because the zionazified western oligarchy denies them media access to western audiences is the same sort of blame the victim nonsense of blaming a rape victim for wearing “x” clothing for the crime perpetuated against her.
+100
And what do we have in the West? Only the most deprived, debased, patronizing, war-mongering, traumatizing, pornographic 5th Column Propaganda disguised as family-friendly Media. It stinks to high heaven! And every sincere and brave journalist who tries to brake the spell gets lost in the forest. Even in areas where there are no forests.
Their business is the creation of splendid little wars, and occasional big ones.
Remember the Maine, the Lusitania, the Tonking Gulf Incident, the Trnopolje Death Camp, the Racak Massacre, the Babies out of Incubators Tale, the Yellow Cake Story, the Libyan Misurata Massacre, the Syrian Sarin, the Jews Must Report to Donetsk Caper.
And here is the current successful fraud:
http://www.9jumpin.com.au/show/60minutes/stories/2015/may/mh17/
MH17 was the most effective trick to turn European and US public opinion against Russia.
The Russians helped tremendously, by
1. advising Donetsk to wait for the Western investigators and body collectors
2. not sending to Donetsk enough artillery to move the front away from Torez
3. not taking control of the crash investigation
4. advising Donetsk to release black boxes
5. allowing Russian media to publish Western disinformation with impunity. The fake photo of the shoot down is your basic memorable image–together with the image of the NRA soldier with the child toy.
Yes, matt-sayan, it’s all Russia’s fault.
Jesus
Matt, why not just blame Russia for not putting the plane back together and flying again?
The story you link is garbage, yet another rehash of the fraudulent bellingcat analysis of the fake BUK videos, and only 740,000 people watched it nationwide (or at least had their TVs on that channel).
Every single item you say “helped” turn the world against Russia would have been a lot worse, if they’d done what you seem to think they should have done.
So you reckon ;
The Russians helped tremendously, by
1. advising Donetsk to wait for the Western investigators and body collectors
— they gave no such advice: Donetsk started picking up the bodies immediately, and that is the normal thing to do
2. not sending to Donetsk enough artillery to move the front away from Torez
— so running the front line fight right through the crash zone would have been an improvement? when they were already being accused on arming the rebels or having invaded with their own army? really good idea to openly send in artillery when foreign investigators are going to be there?
3. not taking control of the crash investigation
— there are international agreements and protocols about air crash investigations and who may take part in them. Investigators (or body pickier-uppers, for that matter, or emergency rescuers) can’t just waltz in to another country and start working. Even less so when that other country is ALREADY accusing them of having invaded that country.
4. advising Donetsk to release black boxes
— we don’t know that they did so advise them. Russia was already being internationally demonised on the (false) rumours that they’d end up with the black boxes. Donetsk handed them to the rightful recipients, the official investigators, all above board like everything else they did about this crash.
5. allowing Russian media to publish Western disinformation with impunity. The fake photo of the shoot down is your basic memorable image–together with the image of the NRA soldier with the child toy.
— Russia does not have Government censorship of the media. They have no mechanism for “not allowing them to publish” items of your choice. In any case these images would be seen by Russians, who’d not be influences against Russia by them and/or would see the same on Western media anyway.
Please stop and think before you post, Matt. Russia’s actions did not “help” the demonisation campaign. By not responding to these provocations they destroyed it. The idea was not to make Russia look bad. The idea was to make Russia REACT in a way that would make an excuse to attack Russia. All your bright suggestions would have led just to that. Thank heavens you are not in charge of anything bigger than a keyboard.
I just want to touch on one point – the Black Boxes & also the ATC recordings.
I know at the time of the MH17 crash the widespread consensus here was that Russia no doubt took recordings off the Black Boxes, and probably also had copies of the relevant ATC conversations with MH17.
If we assume the consensus here was and is correct, why on Earth hasn’t Russia released the Black Box recordings, what are they waiting for?
Why don’t they attempt to clear their name in relation to MH17? Even Kolo (the man most likely responsible) has now been sidelined in Ukraine and marginalised.
If Russia has evidence that it was in fact Kolo responsible that evidence is now fairly useless. Clearly Kolo has built up oligarchic enemies in Ukraine – any attempt to blame Kolo now will be used by rival Ukrainian oligarchs (and the West) to tar Kolo and smear him as a pro-Russian stooge who was actually working against the freedom loving people of Ukraine and secretly advance the interests of Russia.
Given that, I’m starting to be inclined to believe Kolo had nothing to do with MH17 – else Russia would have exposed his involvement at the time he was seen as close to the Porky Regime.
There is little point in blaming him now.
If Russia therefore has evidence of CIA/Mossad involvement then – why does it not officially stand behind the evidence it does have and publicly release it – certainly enough time has now elapsed and most have now moved on with the understanding Russia is in fact to blame for MH17.
Can anyone tell me exactly what Russia is waiting for? Or are they in fact (for whatever reason) just not that interested in clearing their name in the eyes of the global public.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Julian, Russia has recordings from Rostov ATC, which is only from the period starting with Dnepro contacting them about the proposed route (vector to a waypoint near Rostov then direct). At this stage Dnepro could also hear the plane, as it was meant to be talking to them in a moment. This has been released as a transcript in Russian and translated to English. It just says about the waypoints, then both ATCOs realising the plane’s gone off the radar and is not answering.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mh17-transcript-of-flights-last-moments-reveals-frantic-efforts-to-contact-disappeared-plane-9720715.html
Go Ctrl+ a few times to see the transcript properly.
Russia never had the black boxes. Media kept claiming they would get them or had already gotten them, for several days before they were actually found — they were close together in the wheatfield across the road from that big tail section. It was filmed — a searcher waving, others going over, the searcher carrying it in both hands to the truck. Not rebels, but Kiev Emergency Services employees. Later that same night they were handed over to Malaysian government reps at the then Prime Minister Borodai’s office in Donetsk.
The data recorder would not be expected to have anything useful on it. It would show course changes, but their significance or otherwise would have to come from other sources. The voice recorder could contain all sorts of interesting items, in theory, again about routing. Comments about or to an escorting fighter would go through to ATC, too, whether on the normal or emergency channel. The Dutch said nothing abnormal on it, but it would be nice to hear it (all channels).
Russia has the radars it has already shown, but much better copies and video type recording, not stills. they MAY have something on satellite they’ve never mentioned. Or spy plane. Assets they may not want to expose right now. They may have something small to hold up their sleeve, too.
I really don’t see “clearing our name” as being a big issue for Putin. Why knock yourself out to please, or look good to, people who’ve openly stated over years that they want to destroy you? Slaves might grovel to get better treatment. Sovereign people/states get what they need for themselves. Russia has the respect of the people who matter, and that number seems to be growing daily.
Cheers for that Kat Kan
Appreciated.
Empire 101:
1) control the money-printing-press
2) control all printing-presses
3) the rest will follow
Maybe not quite waking up, just a lot of change and upheaval in the society.
15 years ago Russian media was controlled by oligarch groups; by now this is largely gone and a lot of control came back to state, a bit reminiscent of the Soviet Union days. At present the government is mostly into power, less so soft power (and a lot on the plate on top of the media).
In the meantime, there is a long tradition of having a lot of talent on the side of independents, not easily controlled by either state or oligarchs; those independents better connect mentally in Russia than power or money players; but too disorganized and fractured for a robust play internationally
Russian independent journalists are often widely known still ( late Politkovskaia) and have/had serious impact. It seems to be that Western independents are mostly known in Russia (Paul C Roberts, Robert Parry, and the like, have some coverage and impact in Russia but seems to have essentially none in the West).
It’s similar to other areas, independents running for office in Russia are (still) kind of feared; in the English-speaking West, it’s like a yawn and zero impact
If public opinion cannot be changed anyway, if all that counts is to maintain political correctness, let’s just get stoned out of our mind. And here is a nice strong rope; it will solve all our problems in a few seconds
Well, all the whining and negativity in this thread forced me to watch the clip. Two straight stories densely filled with no-nonsense reporting, one short piece that was surreal and not to my taste and very easy to ignore. Net result, a huge positive. Thank you once again, South Front – a miracle something like this can even get produced in the heat of battle.
As for the bitching about Russia, and how it’s losing the info war, making all the wrong moves, and generally not doing enough to help – words fail me. Have you learned nothing here?
The ingratitude, impatience and negativity of some of the armchair tacticians in these threads never cease to amaze me. It seems like being in a house burning down and insisting on a conversion chart between Fahrenheit and Centigrade.
(Pssst… don’t tell anyone, but it’s not always easy to tell the difference between people who just disagree, or are misinformed or wrongheaded, or are working from the other side. Remember — I didn’t say that.)
Pssst… I didn’t say that.
But your comment made it past the KK , mine didn’t. I’m lealous. ;(
Here above, four nice optimist Oblomovists complain about negativity; they think they support Russia, when they really defend the passive thought pattern of the anti-war camp in the West–note that we never managed to stop a single war.
I listed a few tragic successes of the Western fraudsters: the Trnopolje Death Camp to start Bosnia bombing, the Racak Massacre to start Kosovo war, the Babies out of Incubators Tale to create rage in favor of Iraq 1991, the Yellow Cake Story, the Libyan Misurata Ghadafi air force attack, the Syrian Sarin, the Jews Must Report to Donetsk Caper (“JMRDC”), and the MH17. Each of them worked perfectly, to start or give impetus to a new war. Proving the fraud later, does not give life back to the dead.
JMRDC was run against the DPR, MH17 was run against Russia.
The Syrian Sarin Caper remains scripture; with HRW blessing, the destruction of Syria merrily proceeds.
The 60 Minutes story is not “garbage”, it’s a brilliant successful fraud.
These five point do not give what I say should have been done by Russia or Donetsk, only what would have been normally done by any NATO government in such a situation.
1. Waiting for the Dutch collectors, Donetsk allowed the bodies to rot for three days. Donetsk fell for the trick. Dumb.
2. The front was beyond the crash zone. The areas where Kiev’s BUKs were, was the most strategically valuable territory in the Ukraine and could have been taken.
3. Mention one crash investigation in Europe that has not been managed by the country where the plane crashed. DPR had the right and duty to run the investigation, provide the building where the plane was to be put together, and supervise an international commission of experts.
4. There are no rightful recipients in wartime.
5. Governments have the means to pressure editors against committing treason, intentionally or by stupidity. Sixty Minutes presents that fake photo as the Russian version events.
Matt stop posting lies and nonsense here. After 10 months you should know the facts and strop sprouting rubbish eve the MSM sources have stopped posting.
1. Waiting for the Dutch collectors, Donetsk allowed the bodies to rot for three days. Donetsk fell for the trick. Dumb.
— They started picking up bodies on day one (and later got criticized for doing so). The “letting them to rot” was garbage being sprouted at the same time the news video clearly showed them being picked up.
2. The front was beyond the crash zone. The areas where Kiev’s BUKs were, was the most strategically valuable territory in the Ukraine and could have been taken.
— ahh, so under cover of an air crash they should have grabbed other territory? and nobody was going to notice or blame Russia for it?? when the whole idea of the whole thing was to have something to blame Russia with? that’s like hiding from the police by smashing your car into the police station.
3. Mention one crash investigation in Europe that has not been managed by the country where the plane crashed. DPR had the right and duty to run the investigation, provide the building where the plane was to be put together, and supervise an international commission of experts.
— mention one air crash investigation that was done by a newly formed unrecognised state still involved in its foundation civil war? name a suitable (size and security) building in Donbass to use for reconstruction.
4. There are no rightful recipients in wartime.
— now you are really displaying ignorance. The rightful recipient of the black boxes does not vary with war or peace. That recipient is the investigation team, which may include the crash site State, aircraft and engine manufacturers’ nations, operator’s nation, pilot and passengers’ nations etc.; additionally they may contract a nation with appropriate technology to assist.
5. Governments have the means to pressure editors against committing treason, intentionally or by stupidity. Sixty Minutes presents that fake photo as the Russian version events.
— the news outlets are not required to have their content approved before publication/broadcast. So they cannot be prevented; maybe only punished afterwards.
The TV report contained nothing that has not already been canvassed dozens of times, and debunked just as many times. There is nothing “brilliantly successful” about it at all. It is old junk rehashed, and was not a success first time around either. And hardly anybody watched it. It is a pity that you not only watched it but fell for it.
At any rate, you seem to be pushing a strong MSM story line here. Whether for trolling or from ignorance, I don’t know. But you are refusing to learn, just digging yourself in deeper. You’re going to fall through altogether soon, don’t be surprised if further efforts like this don’t get published.
OK, no more.
By the way, I see that Oblomovist is very negatively defined in the dictionary. I had no intention to offend, I meant to indicate a Slavic tendency to optimism, discussion, and perpetual detailed planning, before any decisive action is undertaken.
I’m not who all your oblomovist name calling is directed towards, but you attempts to get Russia to engage in war or change it’s policies are not going anywhere, and I don’t see that policy as motivated by laziness or passivity. Empire has been trying to goad Russia into war or rash action all along, and has been unsuccessful. Russia will win this in the way it chooses.
@ blue “Russia will win”
Hope we’ll be alive to see that, Novorussian folks certainly won’t, Oblomov at 23 Ilyinka Street knows very well what he is not doing.
Hey red, does a man deserve the name Oblomov if all he wants is to keep his expensive watch collection safe from Novorussian violence :~?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27EPLm3alus
I have followed the Saker long enough, to know that there is a Fifth Column in Russia. The real threat is not defeat, it’s nuclear war.
Oblomovism is not laziness, it’s compulsive perpetual planning, of which the peace faction all over the world has suffered from since the Spanish Civil War.
I don’t share your despair one bit about arguments and debate.
In the most successful societies big issues, strategies, tactics and all of the above are rigorously debated, assertions challenged and tested, assumptions questioned and eventually smart people by debating these hard to talk about topics reach some sort of consensus on the right course of action.
It is precisely this lack of rigorous debate that we have seen in the West in the past 15-20 years that is a hallmark of the decline of the West in March Tal and increasingly real terms!!
The Iraq War and the infantile clamour to “get” Saddam are a prime example of this! I could also add the complete silence in the media about WTC building 7 and all the obvious questions that raises – but I’ll leave it to another day.
In the meantime – this is a great article about the unthinking zombie like media “pile-on” on a truly worthwhile journalist Sy Hersh, that precisely demonstrates how the incestuous media/government complex works in the U.S. (and the broader West) at the moment.
Well worth a read – it’s nice to know there are still some journalists out there with the capacity to formulate their own thoughts and diverge completely from whatever the day’s odious “talking points” are.
http://www.cjr.org/analysis/seymour_hersh_osama_bin_laden.php