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How does the western european troika explain all that
spellingshillingshelling?It seems uncle Sam’s blood stained, gnarly fingers still act like cutthroat stilettos, held dangerously close to the bulging veins on an elephant’s ear…
No, I’m not writing a detective story. Are you telling me that western intelligence agencies don’t know what’s going on in the Donbass? That, with all their trillion $$$ gear, they’ve suddenly become deaf, mute, blind and dumb?
This hypocritical happenstance is reaching a point way beyond nauseating…
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/08/25/426241/US-russia-nato-Ukraine
he United States will soon deploy F-22 fighter jets to Europe to show “commitment to the security and stability” of NATO allies concerned about Russia’s actions in Ukraine, a Pentagon official says.
The deployment will occur “very soon” as part of the “European Reassurance Initiative,” Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James said at a Pentagon briefing on Monday.
James did not provide specifics about where or when the single-seat jets would be deployed, but said they will be sent “to support combatant commander requirements” in the region.
An attack on Donbass is imminent, Eu-Us think porky will be defeated, but they do not know how much territory the militia in counterattacking will take. 1- do they plan to interfere in a no Nato country?
2- do they want to attack the militia to minimize porky losses? do not care AT ALL about Russia reaction?
Well,1.They are bluffing Russia.And 2.They are slowing preparing in case they decide to attack.Russia’s inaction has emboldened the bullies to think, “We can have our cake,and eat it too”. Only a Russia that clearly stands up to them is feared and respected.One that takes punch after punch without swinging back is neither feared nor respected in this “dog eat dog world”.The great victories we honor today,against Napoleon and Hitler,came at enormous costs to Russia (especially the last).And those wars both came about because Russia’s enemy thought they couldn’t/wouldn’t fight, or at least fight well.They thought they saw weakness and they could start punching and beat Russia.That was partly Russia’s fault.Trying to appease and be friends with those “colleagues and pardners” in Paris and Berlin led to that thinking on the enemies part.Sadly,the same thing is happening today.They smell blood,and will keep pushing unless forced to stop.Why is it, that our side never seems to understand that until its too late to fix it.Its great that our side wins (or has won) in the “end”.But the cost is so very great to endure for those victories.How about “for a change” we stop the enemy before they inflict those losses on us.Russia can start that by standing up to them. And doing what needs to be done to stop this constant NATO movement to Russia’s border.A good first step would be to topple the junta and free Ukraine.And issue a “Putin doctrine” that no more Color Revolutions” plotted by the West are permissible.That from “now on” they will be considered as a “clear and present danger” to the RF.And any and all actions will be taken to stop them,including military.Let the West chew on that.Do they want Color Revolutions enough to see their cities become a fiery ash.And if the answer is yes.Then we will see there is no dealing with them anyway.We will be past that,except this time we’ll know it before being attacked ourselves.
Empire is trying to incur costs to Russia — if Russia goes into Ukraine that will be a cost and possibly get them entangled and provide an excuse fro terrorist attacks against them, so on that score alone they avoid it.
What empire doesn’t understand is the danger of provoking someone with a gun — when he has enough he won’t punch you, but shoot you. Russia is not playing silly games. It may warn but does not threaten — it either acts or does not act. If it’s goaded into acting it will be more than empire can handle. Just look at the hurt that the Russian sanctions on EU has done — way more than the hurt to Russia from sanctions, which is only short term anyway. When you tease a bear it either ignores you or it tears you apart.
I’m not sure on the costs of freeing Ukraine.I’m talking of the internal costs (in Ukraine and Russia).The external costs are there certainly,but they are there now as well.And in the long term they will end up costing more as they are now.The West has no intention of removing ,but instead the US intends to extend the sanctions.Russia needs,as I’ve said many times,to just accept that fact and work around that.With the West you either obey them,or you fight them.There is no middle ground with them.There never has been.Russia tried for years to find a middle ground.And what she got was NATO and EU members on her borders.And now fascists in Ukraine,and Color Revolution plots against Russia herself.Its time we realized what history clearly shows and stop wishful thinking.When this all started commentators in the US let slip what their plans were for Russia (they are so used to the hubris of World power they didn’t see anything foolish in just telling the truth on that).They said the US had given up on any ideas of friendship with Russia.And intended to “contain” Russia with sanctions and military containment until Russia changed her policies (i.e.regime change).So everything they do is fulfillment of that policy line.There is no change possible in their thinking.Russia must understand the US “bottom line”,and either “accept it” or fight back against it.Thinking that they will change only feeds their thinking Russia is weak.
Bob,
The thinking of the Kremlin has always been a bit hard to understand. As an example, what was the logic in not providing Iran with the S-300 system? Will you only provide it if Iran becomes more friendly to the West? So here is an article that tries to explain the conceptual framework that may motivate those who actually set policy in the Russian establishment. Just a theory, but there is evidence that Russia will only be aggressive on defensive matters, and really doesn’t want to be offensive. Thus, incorporating the Crimea was defensive, as were the actions in Georgia and Syria. But the idea of intervening in the Ukraine to create a Novorossiya or to protect the civilians from terror was a transparent bluff. If Russia did that, it would eliminate the chances of Russia’s highest goal, which is to sit at the table in the West where rules and decisions get made. So back to the old “convergence” goal that was so important in the last days of the USSR. It didn’t work out so well back then, and one wonders if it will now. For sure, Putin would have been in that environment, as they say Andropov was one of the biggest supporters of the idea. One imagines that a very high percentage of people in things like the Foreign Ministry would be imbued with this, as it has been the replacement ideology in elite circles for decades.
http://politnotes.livejournal.com/43231.html
Not that this article is necessarily correct, but it at least tries to understand what may motivate the Kremlin when we mere mortals are confused as to what their goals and thinking are. The drawback of this is that the main value the West gets in sitting at a table with Russia is to have Russia do something that harm’s Russian interest or those of an allied country, such as Syria. If Russia can’t do that, the West doesn’t need to provide the chair for Lavrov or Putin. And attempts to rebel slightly in order to force the West to provide the chair are too easily recognized as bluffs. Like with the idea of Novorossiya, which can’t be used as a card to force a federalized Ukraine, because the West clearly understands that the Kremlin does not want a Novorossiya. It may happen after turmoil and war, but it won’t be a card to exchange with the US. An actual exchange from the US’s point of view would have been allowing Syria to be smashed in exchange for the US pulling out of Kiev and agreeing to a neutral, federalized state. That would have been a deal, but the actions in the Donbass are more of a defensive nature after the initial prospects of a deal collapsed.
NB Some will call that trolling, but it is really just to point out the issues with the idea of convergence. It might require a more aggressive strategy than Russia has been willing to employ. The West is run by mafia bosses, and they only respect the normal things that mafia bosses respect. Not delivering the S-300 would probably not win respect in a room of Meyer Lanskys.
I agree with you on that.I just disagree with the strategy.As to the Iran issue,I think there are a couple of reasons for not giving them.One was “pleasing” the West.But another ,not really talked about and confusing in itself,involves Israel.Israel didn’t want them too either.Many people don’t understand Russia’s relationship with Israel (I’m sometimes confused myself.But much less so than many others).Russia (the Russian Empire and USSR) was for a long time the home of the biggest Jewish population in the World.And probably half or more of the Jews of Israel came from that region.As well as half the US Jews as well.And while today Russia has a much smaller Jewish population,the majority are deeply integrated in all levels of the Russian elite and much of the modern culture.I won’t go into the huge numbers of people with Jewish backgrounds in 20th century Russia and the USSR’s political and social history.They are too well known to bother with that.Like in the US,intermarriage is very common between ethnic Russians and Jews.There are hundreds of thousands of “Russians”,Jews,ethnic Russians,and mixed,people living today in Israel.So Russia has a strange relationship with Israel.On the one hand they hate what the Israeli Zionists are doing.But on the other hand they don’t want to see Israelis destroyed.There is some anti-Jewish feeling in Russia,among the common people,and more nationalist people.But not among the “intelligentsia” and ruling circles in Russia (many of which are mixed or Jewish themselves).That I believe is the reason for Russia’s reluctance to fully side with the anti-Israeli states and movements.And also on the other side for the sometimes strange reluctance of the Israelis not being openly more anti-Russian.Russia wants “its cake,and to eat in too” in the ME.They want to find a peaceful solution to the problems there.Where they can be friends with all sides.A very enviable position.But with the Israelis not co-operating.And the West just sowing chaos and terror.Its a very hard position to obtain.
Bob,
But your explanation doesn’t make clear why Russia sold the S-300s in the first place. Why take the money and not deliver? Sure, the relationship with Israel and Jews is deep and complicated, but the cost of promising and failing to deliver was very high, perhaps much higher than the price France is going to pay over the Mistral. Why make the deal in the first place? The argument of that article is that the Kremlin regularly wants to show its value to the NWO by demonstrating what it can do. It can force Syria to stop smashing the insurgents when they are collapsing. It can stop delivery of S-300s. It can help broker the Iranian nuclear deal. And so on. We still get back, however, to the issue that some of these things are not so good. It is widely reported that Putin pressured Yanukovich not to use force. This is because the Kremlin wanted to use the Ukraine to be friends with Europe. Again, join the NWO, not fight it. Conceptually, however, a country like Russia can’t join the NWO. It has to get rid of nukes, allow Western corporations to gain ownership of the natural resources, give up bases in places like Syria and the Crimea, and otherwise ensure that someone like Putin will never arise again. How do you do that? The NWO is not based on the old ideas of spheres of influence and the nation state. In fact, Russia would really have to be broken up. The Saint Petersburg Republic could join the EU, just like, say, Estonia.
I agree with you,they have made some stupid moves in the past.And need to not make any other ones.Why they made the Iran deal in the first place? I think there is (which we’ve heard small amounts about) a policy struggle in Russia.Between those that want to oppose the West,and those that want to kneel.With Putin playing one against the other.Sometimes siding with one,then the other.I think the deal was made when the “opposers” had his ear.And then when he saw how Israel heavily opposed it,along with the West,he (or actually Medvedev I believe) canceled it.That comes back to a point I’ve made before.You can’t appear weak to the West.Whenever you do they attack.Russia needs to understand that.Unless they want the things you mentioned to happen to them.
Paul II on August 26, 2015 · at 10:53 am UTC said:
“It is widely reported that Putin pressured Yanukovich not to use force. This is because the Kremlin wanted to use the Ukraine to be friends with Europe. Again, join the NWO, not fight it. Conceptually, however, a country like Russia can’t join the NWO. It has to get rid of nukes, allow Western corporations to gain ownership of the natural resources, give up bases in places like Syria and the Crimea, and otherwise ensure that someone like Putin will never arise again. How do you do that? The NWO is not based on the old ideas of spheres of influence and the nation state. In fact, Russia would really have to be broken up. The Saint Petersburg Republic could join the EU, just like, say, Estonia.”
Paul, I seek method in this madness – I therefore appreciate your ideas.
Nevertheless, can you explain further why you don’t think Russia (I assume you mean the Russian elite) can’t join the NWO?
Why do you think the elites of Russia are not already a part of the NWO?
Do not world corporations (/Business Elites) already have power over the natural resources of Russia?
Why do you imagine all of the power of the world elite (including that of Russia) would countenance a single man to stand in their way?
Russia this time will strike deadly at the right time , just waiting for that ONE step too
far by the Anglozionist (neo) colonial fascists, whose hubris, choseness, delusion of racial
superiority, trust in coerced vassals, inbred stupidity, delusions upheld by practice of abominable perversity in the highest corrupted ranks , to STOP with appropriate Saschka
strikes the luciferian infamy onto our people(s).
We (my ancestors) did that with the Ottomans – liberated a. defended Bessarabia .
Bloody well achieved :
Freedom and Wiedervereinigung / reunification of Bessarabia (Moldawia) with the
Lands of the RUS (RF).
The volunteers of the LPR/DPR are inadvertently bloody fighting for the freedom and
reunification of the heroic southwest corner of old Mother Russia – where we had to
fight it out against the Ottomaniacs a. Austrohungarian Empire , a. Roumanian ethnocidal
miniimperialists.
No one knows more than us : to ” prevail ” .
They pervert their speaking a. words. > No shame <
Heartily, Stefan
This is America’s way of getting its war armoury into EU countries.Good for its war industry at this hard times. Marketing for the US war industry is to create a need – a threat so that EU countries can accept them.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/08/25/426197/Russian-Foreign-Minister-Sergei-Lavrov-US-Vice-President-Joseph-Biden
The Russian foreign minister has slammed the US vice president’s remarks urging the partition of Iraq as “highly irresponsible,” saying that Moscow would never agree to such “state structure manipulation.”
“We would never adopt a position voiced without any constraint by US Vice President Joe Biden, who said directly that Iraq should be split into Shia and Sunni parts and that the Kurds should be given what they want,” Sergei Lavrov said Monday while addressing a youth forum near the Russian capital Moscow.
This is Cheney’s old plan to divide Iraq in 3 parts — Energy Task Force map exposed by Judicial Watch, 2001
http://www.oilempire.us/pdf/new-mideast-map-legalsize.pdf
One thing that I can’t understand about that.That map has been shown all over the World by now.I’ve seen it at least a dozen times or more.Surely people living in those countries have seen it (and certainly their governments).In looking at it,you see most of the “losers” are actually supporters of the US.Pakistan is more than halved in it.Saudi Arabia is at least 1/3 smaller.And Turkey is also stripped of around 1/3 of their territory,while Syria loses their coast.And Iran loses and gains territory.The biggest “winners” are Afghanistan,Jordan,Azerbaijan,Yemen.And new nations of Kurdistan,Baluchistan,a Hejaz state,and “Iraq” gains and loses.Besides the fact that in some areas its ethnic and historical nonsense.For the current “loser” countries at least,how could you continue to support the US knowing they contemplate stealing your lands.Do the leaders in those countries have a brain-cell even working.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/08/25/426257/Syria-Assad-militants-Israel-alManar-
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has called the foreign-backed terrorists operating in Syria as the agents of Israel, saying that their crimes are much more hazardous than what the Tel Aviv regime is doing.
During a Monday interview with Lebanon’s al-Manar news channel, Assad said that to confront the Israeli regime, the Syrian government needed to primarily fight its agents inside his country.
The zionazi/nazi Israeli-American (forget the EU queens) interpretation of a ceasefire:
“We continue to commit terrorist attacks on your civilians and when you respond in defense, we blame you for it all”.
They get away with it because the Jewish owned and run zio-media in the zio-fascist west has long had the media monopoly there and effectively created a zombieland of dittoheads.
OT:
Will Michigan have to be “regime changed” or become the “home” of a “Chinese” terrorist attack?
Michigan, China Pledge to Strengthen Cooperation to Boost Trade, Investment
“Snyder and [Chinese Commerce Ministry Deputy Minister] Xiangchen presided over the signing of a memorandum of understanding between Michigan and representatives of four of China’s provinces and one of its major cities,” the press release said on Tuesday.
The deal aims to increase collaboration in “industry and agriculture, economic activities and trade, science and technology, culture and education, sports and health, travel and tourism,” the office added.
The five major Chinese industrial regions that participated in the agreement include the provinces of Guangdong, Sichuan, Hubei and Zhejiang as well as the city of Chongqing with a population of 195 million people.
The memorandum was signed during Snyder’s eight-day trip to China, where he promoted tourism to Michigan and discussed business investment, the release said.
In the past five years, Chinese companies have invested more than $1 billion in the Michigan’s automobile industry, according to Michigan’s Automotive Office.
Michigan has been struggling to recover after the economic decline that lasted nearly a decade. In 2013, the most populous city of the state, Detroit, has filed for the largest municipal bankruptcy in US history with outstanding debt of $18-20 billion.
It never ceases to amaze me that the Chinese,instead of investing that money in projects that benefit countries that actually “support them”. Will invest in a country that, A.will seize that money anytime they want to. And B. that hate and fear them with a passion.And want nothing more than to see China collapse.The old saying “a fool and his money or soon parted” comes to mind.
Uncle Bob 1
Look where the Chinese were 30 years ago, look where they are now. The Chinese are not fools. It is foolish to portray them as such.
yes, they have come very far very quickly. But it’s also true that many Chinese nowadays are similar to the “Atlantic Integrationists” in Russia. They love everything about the West, but actually know very little that is true – they get their info from US media,movies and TV shows. Many of them even think the moon in USA is rounder and bigger!
I would say they have very good leaders at the Top, but also lots of corrupt officials at lower levels, hence Xi JinPing’s relentless effort to try to get rid of those, but it’s a very tough task, ingrained into their culture even.
No one thinks they are fools.But acting foolish is not a good idea for them.There are many reasons where they are today.And investing money inside the US is “not” one of them.It was the other way around that got them where they are today.The West investing money in China.And buying Chinese products,made by Chinese factories inside China, that built today’s China.The problem that Russia has today with untold billions in cash stored in the West,basically hostages.Is an example China should be able to see,and avoid.
there are probably all kinds of sinister arrangements along with it. Chinese contracts in Canada were protested hugely by activists. There are all sorts of loopholes that keep the Canadians paying tax dollars on any accidents incurred like oil spills and nuclear blasts and so on and so on.
In Canada, letting the Chinese money in, is not welcomed by environmentalists.
Uncle Bob 1 on August 26, 2015 · at 3:53 am UTC
The article didn’t say what was decided exactly. How do you know the Chinese didn’t act in their best interests? We don’t know what these people decided, and you claiming the Chinese are acting stupid is jumping the gun.
Slow down, there is another side to country-country relations to the black or white, friend or enemy routine. Both the Chinese and the Russians are working on the principle that there are better ways than war to settle conflicts and that being the nice guy doesn’t entail that you always lose. Because the Russians deal with Germany, through Nordstream, does that mean they are selling out?
One of the central facets of this no war strategy is that the more different conflicting side become interdependent upon each other, the less they will have reason to make war. This goes for oligarchs as well as real people.
I don’t at all oppose trade between countries.But with trade you hope to sell your products to another country,and import their money back.You don’t send your money,without getting a product back in hand.That is the same problem the US created for themselves.To benefit the elite class they “outsourced” millions of their jobs,and sent money outside the country.Instead of helping the country,its one of the things that have hurt it (the people) the most (the others being the military budget,and corporate fascism).I would hate for Chinese leaders to allow their elite to make that same mistake.And especially when China isn’t strong enough to afford it.We have to remember that even though by the GDP PPP China has surpassed the US.That is based off of almost 1.4 billion people.The US’s very close 2nd place is only based off 321 million people.China could/should be the wonder of the World by the middle of the century.But she isn’t there yet.And now is not a time to follow the bad examples of the West.
China should be worrying about these countries at the moment:
Thailand (US trying to run regime change there – Bangkok bombing probably in league with Thanksin’s red shirts).
Malaysia (US backing the “Bersih” movement in an effort to overthrow Najib Razak)
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/us-vs-china-us-mobs-seek-to-overthrow.html
North Korea (Is there a coherent policy here and what strings are the Chinese pulling?)
Myanmar (What precisely is going on here, but they have to be careful of American interference).
I would suggest if China wanted to be helpful they would be prodding Malaysia to take a more hawkish line on the MH17 downing and start voicing out loud their suspicion that it was Kiev that done it.
If China & Malaysia were more vocal about this belief this would certainly add weight to Russia’s arguments – which are largely ignored. I’m talking about the Chinese & Malaysian leadership here. This seems not to happen however.
Maybe they’re waiting for this long long-awaited Dutch Safety Board Report due in October. It almost seems to me that Kiev will force themselves to go on an offensive again soon to make the relevance of the Dutch Safety Board report meaningless.
I just listened to “Keiser Report” Episode 801
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xre9l9ntzNI
Steve Dibert says that Detroit is being taken over by corporations for the benefit of the wealthy and is becoming a privately owned corporate run city.
blue
Detroit is being taken over by corporations for the benefit of the wealthy and is becoming a privately owned corporate run city.
Not “being”, long been, and not “becoming”, has been for a very long time. Detroit has been a “company town” most of its existence, at least since becoming part of the USA. That is what American cities are, and traditionally have been, for at least the last century and a half.
Previously there was counter-pressure — from unions, for example, and people were not simply trampled into dust. There were government services which were not privatized, and welfare of the people was not completely ignored. But what is happening now is not quite completed yet. It also happening all over the country — Detroit is just one of the earlier victims.
blue
You are describing labour-oligarch relations. This is a different subject from who is the main power in American cities and towns. These have been traditionally run by the most wealthy and their gofers. Even in the “wild west”, usually portrayed as anything goes, the wealthy quickly took control.
In the USA, much of the Unions devolved into capitalist assets fairly early. They opted for more pay, rather than more control of their environment. This is evident when comparing European to American labour progress. American unions (most, not all) chose to turn right, and become wings of the capitalist system. As such, they ceased to wield any real power. This is why it was so easy to get American unions to commit suicide helping corporate interests, which in the last 30 years saw those American unions effectively reduced to fringe associations (like the “Odd Fellows”) in decision making. American unions sacrificed union philosophy for better pay in the short term, and subservience in the long term.
This is why their influence never managed to rival that of the oligarchy.
Yes. The issue I had in mind was how much countering power to the oligarchy was there. That shifted dramatically around the 1970s as outsourcing and robotization weakened labor, and the Powell memo and think tanks and all focused plutocracy’s war machine. Financialization made it all even worse for the people as manufacturing faded as an economic base.
Now the corporate wealthy are going in for the kill and full blown fascism.
That was pretty much done in the 1940’s with the AFL-CIO merger.A plot to contain “socialism” by taking over the more “social” minded CIO by the right leaning AFL.Ever since then there has been no real progress in the labor movement in the US.Its been a back-peddle all the way.The second stage of the attack on labor was/is the push for “right to work” laws in the US.One after the other as States passed those laws,labor has been crippled by those laws.Even in States like Michigan that at one time was very labor oriented (for the US at least).It’s ironic to hear talk in the US about a party or person being called “socialist”.While in Europe that party would be considered “at best” Center-left,and more likely Center-right .People in the US have no concept of social democracy ,let alone socialism or communism.Just as when thinking of fascism or nazism Americans think of “skinheads or Aryan Brotherhood” types.They don’t have any understanding of Corporate fascism.Which is why they never can see “fascism” in power in the US.It doesn’t fit the pre-conceived notion of what fascism is to them.
blue on August 26, 2015 · at 4:17 am UTC
Uncle Bob 1 on August 26, 2015 · at 4:17 am UTC
Concur, definitely.
Uncle Bob 1 on August 26, 2015 · at 4:17 am UTC said:
“That was pretty much done in the 1940’s with the AFL-CIO merger.A plot to contain “socialism” by taking over the more “social” minded CIO by the right leaning AFL.Ever since then there has been no real progress in the labor movement in the US.Its been a back-peddle all the way.The second stage of the attack on labor was/is the push for “right to work” laws in the US.”
It’s such a pity to see the alleged downturn in Rublyovka don’t you think http://uk.businessinsider.com/rublyovka-the-richest-neighborhood-in-moscow-2015-6?r=US&IR=T ?
Putin’s drive into work must be a real drag http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2008/feb/12/russia (so what if it’s theguardian)
Any idea yet when he will reverse the attack on Russian labour /minsk-2-a-rotting-corpse/comment-page-1/#comment-136605 ?
Well anon, that Guardian drive into work is a bit of a stretch but there’s no doubt he likes a bit of bling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDRdvyLBwO8
Provide better context, please. Mod ME
“Provide better context, please. Mod ME”
The context is that the accuracy of the Guardian link is immaterial – we can see the new Russian Aristocracy (including Putin)/Business elites surrounded by splendour at the state awards and in Rublyovka.
So, while some in Russia (just like in the US) do very nicely many do not (as depicted by the 3rd item from the bottom here, which has not yet been disputed http://www.gks.ru/bgd/regl/b14_12/IssWWW.exe/stg/d01/07-01.htm
вот так, blue & U Bob complain of corporate fascism in the US while it is replicated in Russia.
blue suggests a secret plan to aid the “Russian people” when, if a secret plan exists at all, it’s purpose is actually to aid only the wealthy amongst Russian society /minsk-2-a-rotting-corpse/comment-page-1/#comment-135865
Hypocrisy of the tallest order.
If you are looking for us (me) to disagree that reforms are needed in Russia,you will be disappointed.Certainly reforms are needed badly.But that doesn’t at all take away any of the facts I mentioned.Unlike in Russia,where there have been positive improvements in the common peoples lives over the last 15 years.In the US,that same period has seen the increase in poverty,only saved from being a total disaster by the welfare programs.But those programs are only a temporary help,not a solution.So yes,Putin is rich,and the oligarchs are oligarchs.But at least the people do better than before.In the US,the Presidents are rich,and the oligarchs are oligarchs.But the people are doing worse,not better.So there you have the World in a nutshell.Sorry to bust your Russophopic bubble that I’d pounce on you for making fun of Putin.
Uncle Bob 1 on August 26, 2015 · at 2:03 pm UTC said:
“So yes,Putin is rich,and the oligarchs are oligarchs.But at least the people do better than before.In the US,the Presidents are rich,and the oligarchs are oligarchs.But the people are doing worse,not better.So there you have the World in a nutshell.“
Ok Bob – the bit in bold is simple at least, i’m beginning to get interested.
You’ve hinted that there is little to choose between the US Elite and the Russian Elite – can I dig in a little more to understand if there is more to your motivation please?
Scenario
Let’s assume Russian society & that of the US are, currently, equally unfair (since both have a gini index of 40-41 & trending up /a-tale-of-two-world-orders-unz-review-column/comment-page-1/#comment-122289). Let’s further assume their respective elites are each as psychopathic as each other (seems a fair assumption, does it not?) and that the future development of their social policies would be similar if both groups continued to rule (i.e. the future wealth disparity tracks would mirror each other).
Now, let’s assume the US Elite want the total share of the Russian Elite’s resources and succeed by killing them all. Assume that the economic output of the post conflict US & Russia are unchanged from before the conflict and the incomes of all surviving non-elites (US & Rusian) remain as before. Further assume that the victorious US Elite don’t want to upset their Russian cash cow and therefore install a pseudo Russian “Glory to Russia glory to the Heroes” type government where everyone can go to Orthodox Church and watch Russia’s got talent in the evening (i.e. the people don’t see any change).
Q1:
Would you see this, and why, as a negative outcome for the people that live in Russia (excluding the now defunct Russian Elites)?
Q2:
If you’d rather not entertain this scenario – maybe you’d like to explain further why you think a bunch of egotistical Russian oligarchs/business elites would ensure that “their” people (ahem) should continue from now on along a preferential path compared to the “people” of the US (managed by a similarly motivated bunch of egotistical US oligarchs/business elites).
PS: You can substitute “US society & Russia” for “Russian society & the US” (and reverse other similar reference in the scenario if desired…much as you may wish to short-cut the conversation by describing me as Russophopic, the simple truth is that I am not. What I am is Russo(rich)phopic and, as a description, US(rich)ophobic.
?
blue suggests a secret plan to aid the “Russian people”
where was that?
If you men the link I posted to the article at
http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=8159
I don’t write that article. I just found it interesting, with things to consider. Do you think I wrote or fully endorse everything I like to — or that anyone else links to?
blue on August 26, 2015 · at 6:40 pm UTC said:
“A video of a formal state ceremony…
What is that supposed to prove except that Russia has very elegant facilities and impressive ceremonies.”
That they don’t give a f**k about those less fortunate than themselves.
(Disturbing that even needs to be said)
A video of a formal state ceremony…
What is that supposed to prove except that Russia has very elegant facilities and impressive ceremonies. Putin officiated, of course, as president, but he was even left having to stand while the recipients of the awards got to sit down.
These posts of yours are silly propaganda. (But thanks for the link to this video — beautiful hall!)
Looked it up — that hall is St.George’s Hall at the Grand Kremlin Palace, one of the official residences of President of Russia, used for important ceremonies, and treasured sites in Russia.
http://sputniknews.com/voiceofrussia/2007/06/05/137478/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Kremlin_Palace
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/kremlin1912/st-george-hall-kremlin-palace-1912
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/49696
Presentation of Russian Federation National Awards
Vladimir Putin presented the 2014 National Awards for science and technology, literature and the arts, and outstanding achievements in humanitarian work.
[…]
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/49697
Speech at the Russian Federation National Awards presentation ceremony
[…]
Perhaps some people think this award ceremony should be done in a old barn, or awards not given at all, but this seems to me a very appropriate Russian state function, as with every other nation which gives awards for outstanding achievement, and shows support for the accomplishment of its citizens.
blue on August 27, 2015 · at 5:07 pm UTC said:
“Perhaps some people think this award ceremony should be done in a old barn, or awards not given at all, but this seems to me a very appropriate Russian state function, as with every other nation which gives awards for outstanding achievement, and shows support for the accomplishment of its citizens.”
Awards are a petty incentive to the ego – they should be banned, but if they continue to be awarded the open air would be best:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-34082304
http://www.starvation.net/
Also OT:
New Species of Crayfish Named After NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden
According to German researcher Christian Lukhaup and his two colleagues, the crayfish has been frequently misidentified as a similar species, and so they decided to give it a new name: Cherax Snowden.
“The new species is named after American freedom fighter Edward Joseph Snowden,” they wrote in a study published in the journal ZooKeys. “He is honored due to his extraordinary achievements in defense of justice, and freedom.”
Lukhaup, who has named other species before, told the Washington Post that the motivation behind the name came from his support for the former National Security Agency contractor turned whistleblower.
“After describing a couple of news species, I thought about naming one after Edward Snowden because he really impresses me,” he said. “We have so many species named after other famous people who probably don’t do so much for humanity. I wanted to show support for Edward Snowden. I think what he did is something very special.”
However, not unlike Snowden who is currently living in asylum in Moscow to avoid prosecution, the crayfish also faces serious risks. The study warned that species’ popularity may pose a serious threat, as its population has greatly decreased in recent years.
“According to local collectors, the populations of the species have been decreasing in the last few years,” the study found. “Clearly, the continued collecting of these crayfish for the trade is not a sustainable practice, and if the popularity of the species continues, a conservation management plan will have to be developed, potentially including a captive breeding program.”
IE:whistle-blowers are becoming a threatened species in the zio-west. Snowden is one of the most hated targets of the zio-gays doing hate radio in the USA, one expects this freakshow of boy molesters will start demanding these researchers be sent to “gitmo” for their “treason”.
Ukrainian Media Blames Google for Working for ‘Kremlin Propaganda’
On the Ukrainian television show “Podrobnosti” Ukrainian media has proclaimed that Google Translator has been helping… no, not interpreters, but the so-called “Putin’s propaganda.”
Damn, those orcs are sharpe cookies, figuring that out subtle Russian infiltration into the google poodle!
(Note: sarcasm)
Another OT (because I found it amusing):
NASA Found ‘Star Wars Spaceship’ on Mars
UFO enthusiasts were the first to notice the odd feature, with some believing the object to be the wreckage of an alien ship.
“The black object looks like a crashed UFO,” UFO expert Scott C. Waring told RT.
A good one for “penelope” to grab and run with the next time an article critical of Israel is posted here. ;D
Looks like the supposedly “false” news of DPR/LPR is going to have a referendum about joining RF is “true” after all ? this news source is not the maligned source from about a few days ago:
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/08/will-novorossiya-vote-to-join-russia-in.html
The earlier story, repeated by China, may have been something of a trial balloon.
Timing has an interesting aspect: if joining takes place after an attack on Donbas and a counter attack securing more territory from Kiev than likely that territory would also go with Donbas.
In fact, if someone is extra sneaky, this story may be a way of preventing an attack on Donbas to stop that thing from happening. Just the prospect of an attack on Donbas resulting in Maripol and other areas being liberated may be keeping a few of the smarter empire people up at night. And it could also be a reason for Russia and Donbas to allow an attack to take place.
How many layers of sneaky does one want to go?
Personally I don’t think Russia will agree to that (at least not now).Personally I also believe it is the right thing to happen.But that ,as I said Russia won’t do it.I think Russia would accept a full reunion of all Ukraine,after de-nazification (maybe minus Galicia,though maybe including,I’m not sure).But barring that, Russia wants to keep Donbass (or full Novorossia) as an autonomous region in a Federal Ukraine.I don’t see that policy has changed yet.They think either of those ideas would be best for all concerned,and they are probably correct.But without the junta’s fall,the best solution would be to reunite Novorossia itself to Russia.A half-loaf is always better than no loaf at all.I just don’t see that Russia understands that yet.
WASHINGTON, August 26. /TASS/. The top US diplomat for Europe said on Tuesday the United States would continue to pursue its current policy envisaging selective cooperation with Russia.
In an interview with TASS, Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland said: “Where we can we work, where our interests are aligned, where we are working within the international system, we do OK.”
Victoria Nuland: We do want to be able to communicate clearly with Russia
World August 26, 12:00 UTC+3
Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Ambassador Victoria Nuland in an interview with TASS
http://tass.ru/en/world/816555
not sure I really want to read such hypocricy from this lunatic
and
VLADIVOSTOK, August 26. /TASS/. Software of foreign technical intelligence services has been detected in the information systems of Russian government bodies, Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolay Patrushev said on Wednesday.
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Poro says Minsk is only route
KIEV, August 24. /TASS/. The Minsk Accords, seeking a peace settlement in war-torn eastern Ukraine, have no alternative, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said at a march dedicated to the country’s Independence Day in Kiev on Monday.
“The Minsk Accords have no alternative as they are confirmed by the ally countries and the Ukrainian political forces,” Poroshenko said.
“We are not pacifists. We will reinforce the army and increase the number of contract servicemen,” he said, adding that the mobilization was unlikely to be cancelled. “Under current conditions we are unable to have only contract personnel.”
Poroshenko also said he believed the worst stage of the Donbas conflict was almost over.
but has bluster and the nerve/ to set up stupid excuse for attacking AFN, to bluster before Merkel says she must speak to Putin at Normandy meeting,
BERLIN, August 24. /TASS/. France and Germany have listened to the Ukrainian vision of the situation in the Donbas region, but contacts with the Russian president on the issue are necessary, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in Berlin on Monday following talks with Presidents of France and Ukraine Francois Hollande and Petro Poroshenko.
READ ALSO
Moscow accuses Kiev of purposefully building up heavy weapons at contact line
DPR: Ukrainian military dying in Donbas because of country’s dependence on US
Ukraine celebrates Independence Day amid martial law, economic crisis
“We discussed many issues today”, we listened to the stance on them “from the Ukrainian angle,” the chancellor said. “We will also resume contacts with the Russian president. I do not rule out that a four-party meeting will take place,” Merkel noted.
According to the German leader, there are differences of opinion on Ukraine between the West and Russia which “should be necessarily settled.”
Getting a bit late now Merkel?How many dead, how much of Germany’s business badly affected etc etc, no wonder there is such deep concern over Syrian and other refugees 800,000 trying to come to Germany………….got any views on Syria yourself?
AFU still attacks NR
MOSCOW, August 26. /TASS/. Ukraine’s forces have violated the ceasefire regime in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic 30 times over the past 24 hours, the DPR Defense Ministry has said.
KIEV, August 25. /TASS/. Talks between leaders of Germany, France and Ukraine in Berlin on Monday focused on “red lines” Russia must not cross, a senior Ukrainian administration official said on Tuesday.
“It is very important that we have discussed red lines that, if crossed, could prompt a resolute reaction from the international community, including the European Union, and this refers not only to sanctions,” Konstantin Yeliseyev, deputy head of Ukraine’s presidential administration, told a news briefing in Kiev.
Yeliseyev did not specify what kind of “red lines” had been set. “This information is not yet in the public domain,” he said, noting however that “one of these lines” was “holding fake elections” in east Ukraine’s self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.
Ukraine, the meetings of the contact group in Minsk is ready to discuss anything, just not the fulfillment of their obligations under paragraphs Minsk Agreement. So today, for example, the president of Ukraine Poroshenko instructed the members of the contact group raised at today’s meeting the issue of release Ukrainian Sentsova, Kol’chenko and apparently infamous Savchenko. This was on Ukrainian television said the deputy head of the Presidential Administration Konstantin Yeliseyev.
“There will be a regular meeting of the tripartite contact group, and only the president of Ukraine held relevant meetings, and he gave directives, instructions to the members of our delegation, and among one of the most important guidelines – is to insist on issues related to the verdict against the Ukrainian citizens, and we This issue is also firmly put … in Minsk, “- he said.
It must be assumed that at today’s meeting in Minsk Ukrainian side, as in the past, will continue to sabotage the issues directly relating to the implementation of the Minsk Agreement, replacing them with questions unconnected with the objectives of the meetings of the Contact Group, and, in principle, outside the Minsk-2.
Recall, today in Minsk will meet four sub-working groups, will also host a meeting of the Tripartite Group. On the agenda – implementation of all components of the Minsk Agreement. The discussion will be held after the meeting of the four working groups – on security, economic, political and humanitarian issues.
http://www.anna-news.info/node/41380
google translate
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Their own crazy elections in Crimea
Ukraine is living, to put it mildly, in a virtual reality. And very strange reality. Judge for yourself: the press service of the Central Election Commission of Ukraine has placed the official website reported that in the Crimea will be held … Ukrainian elections.
“During the meeting, the Commission approved the form and color of the ballots for the election of deputies of the Verkhovna Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, regional, district, city, city district, village, town councils, village, town and city mayors and chiefs of villages in order to vote in the respective constituencies. It was found that the ballots for voting in the relevant electoral districts must be identical in size, printed in the official language on the same paper and on one sheet with the text part with only one hand, the respective color and content, “- said in a statement.
Also adopted a decision of the CEC of Ukraine “On the forms of protocols and acts of election commissions for the preparation and conduct of local elections, counting of votes at polling stations on election of deputies of the Verkhovna Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, regional, district, city, city district, village, town Councils, village, town and city mayors and chiefs of villages.
http://www.anna-news.info/node/41385
KIEV, August 26. /TASS/. Representatives of the Contact Group on the Ukraine crisis, meeting in the Belarusian capital Minsk on Wednesday, will discuss all aspects of ceasefire agreements reached in February, said Darya Olifer, spokeswoman for former Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma, who represents Kiev at peace talks aimed at easing the conflict in the country’s east.
MOSCOW, August 26. /TASS/. The defense ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk republic has reported Kiev’s sizeable military buildup along the contact line in Donbas, official spokesman Eduard Basurin said on Wednesday.
“Up to 4,000 people, including two tank battalions [60 tanks], and also armored vehicles, infantry combat vehicles, self-propelled artillery systems and vehicles are confirmed to have arrived in the Chasov Yar village [some 20 kilometers from the contact line],” the Donetsk news agency quoted Basurin as saying.
The arrival of the Buk M1 missile system has been spotted in the village of Nikolayevka, the defense ministry spokesman said.
Basurin said the Kiev forces continue preparing for the offensive in Donbas.”
KIEV, August 25. /TASS/. Ukraine is through with a package of measures to reform the country’s defense capability system, the Defense Ministry’s spokesperson, Viktoria Kushnir, has told a news briefing.
READ ALSO
Number of ceasefire violations in Donbas continues to decline — OSCE
Merkel admits it’s necessary to hold talks on Ukraine with Russian president
Moscow accuses Kiev of purposefully building up heavy weapons at contact line
DPR: Ukrainian military dying in Donbas because of country’s dependence on US
Militia accuse Kiev of pulling military equipment closer to contact line
“Legislatively the strength of Ukraine’s army has been set at 250,000. In the east of Ukraine the required defense groups have been deployed. The 22 existing brigades have been reorganized and twelve new brigades are about to be formed. Under state defense contracts the army has received more than 1,300 pieces of military equipment,” Kushnir said. The Defense Ministry has created a center for development and material support for the Ukrainian armed forces
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KIEV, August 25 /TASS/. Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin suggests introducing the Sentsov and Savchenko sanctions list similar to the US Magnitsky list.
“I believe that we should gradually start talking about the Sentsov and Savchenko sanctions lists,” Klimkin told Ukrainian TV channel Inter on Tuesday commenting the conviction of Ukrainian activists, Oleg Sentsov and Alexander Kolchenko, by a Russian court.
MOSCOW, August 26. /TASS/. Russia will make a symmetrical response should Ukraine come up with a Sentsov-Savchenko “sanction list,” the chairman of the State Duma’s committee for the CIS affairs, Eurasian integration and diaspora relations, Leonid Slutsky, has told TASS.
“A replica of the United States’ Magnitsky List in the context of mutual sanctions will aggravate our relations, which Kiev has been trying to systematically reduce to nothing on instructions from our strategic friends.2
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but Kiev itself threatens
KIEV, August 26. /TASS/. The Ukrainian Prosecutor General’s Office has completed an investigation into the case of Russian citizens Alexander Alexandrov and Yevgeny Yerofeyev detained by the Ukrainian military in eastern Ukraine, Chief Military Prosecutor Anatoly Matios told a press briefing in the Ukrainian crisis media center.
“The law enforcement agencies have completed the pre-trial investigation of Alexander Alexandrov and Yevgeny Yerofeyev detained in the Luhansk Region,” he said.
“They are facing the maximum penalty on all counts. You should not even doubt what the court’s decision will be,” he told the press briefing.
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MOSCOW, July 2. /TASS/. Europe’s unified stance on Russia is “gradually falling apart at the seams”, Russia’s Ambassador to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) Andrey Kelin said on Thursday.
“This attempt to unite all European countries, including the CIS member-states, around this position [on Russia], in my opinion, is gradually falling apart at the seams,” the diplomat told the Kommersant FM radio station. “We have been debating for more than a year, with the discussion centering around the same talking point. It’s becoming increasingly more difficult to ensure that all European Union members share this view.”
and
land of make believe?
MOSCOW, August 25. /TASS/. Russia is the main trade and economic partner of the European countries, and despite political tensions in relations between Russia and the European Union their close cooperation will continue, former French President Valery Giscard d’Estaing told the Rossiya-24 TV channel.
“Russia has always been a European power. Both culturally and economically Russia is closer to Europe than to China. But, in my opinion, the closest partnership will exist between Russia and France.”
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Ukraine summons by DHL post this guy for interrogation re events last August…..
“Chief of General Staff of the Russian Federation Valery Gerasimov delivered summons for questioning in the Main Military Prosecutor’s Office of Ukraine.
This was announced at a press conference the chief military prosecutor – Deputy Prosecutor General of Ukraine Anatoly Matios.
http://www.anna-news.info/node/41384
google translate
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So if the Ukrainians mention those people at the meeting.The Donbass representatives should say “We don’t hold any of them.So lets move along to issues that “actually” concern this meeting”.And on a sidenote.It must have been a “brave” person to deliver that summons to Valery Gerasimov.He might have ordered him shot.What’s the good of having military power if you don’t get to have a little fun once and a while with it (sarcasm,if anyone was wondering).