When the Serbian Saker Team Leader emailed me last Sunday to let me know that the new Serbian Saker Blog was ready, I did not realize that it was on the day when the Church commemorates Saints Cyril and Methodius, who laid the basis for the contemporary Cyrillic script used by 252 million people in Eurasia.
By the prayers of Saint Cyril and Methodius, may the new Serbian Saker blog be successful and reach many people!
The Saker
O Cyril and Methodius, inspired by God,
You became equal to the Apostles by your life.
Since you were teachers of the Slavs,
Intercede with the Master of all
That He may strengthen all Orthodox peoples in the True Faith,
And that He may grant peace to the world
And great mercy to our souls.
Let us praise the two priests of God who enlightened us,
And poured upon us the fount of the knowledge of God by translating the Holy Scripture.
O Cyril and Methodius, as abundant learning has been drawn from this work,
We exalt you who now stand before the Most High,
Interceding with fervor for the salvation of our souls.
Great timing! I Also, I would like to welcome our Serbian brothers and sisters. Incredible people, incredible culture and, more often then not, some of the friendliest people on the planet earth. This was my personal experience throughout my life, and as a Russian men, I’m proud to share similar heritage with Serbians in our spacious, Slavic universe!
May the new Serbian Saker Vineyard flourish and give voice to the Serbians and others aligned with the Serbian people.
Sanctified with blessings and prayers and hard work by good people.
Another falcon rising in the East.
It is also Tito’s birthday
:D
It was Dan Mladosti, the Day of Youth.
Yugoslavia
Youth Day was celebrated throughout the former Yugoslavia on May 25. This was also a celebration of Josip Broz Tito’s birthday who was in fact born on May 7, 1892. His birthday was celebrated on May 25, because his troops were attacked by Nazis on May 25, day of his birth found on his forged personal documents. In the weeks preceding the date youth ran a relay around the country and on his birthday Tito was ceremonially presented with the baton. The baton, which had passed through all major cities, contained a symbolic birthday message, ostensibly from the youth of the whole country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_Day#Yugoslavia
What is exactly is the obsession with Tito? Didn’t he cause grievous harm to our country? Are we not still dealing with the aftermath of his legacy?
How anyone can possibly see a link with this person as a positive sign for the Serbia saker blog is beyond me…
I can only laugh out laud about your comment Serbian Girl.
Somebody really took a good care to try to suppress and turn upside down the history.
Grievous harm – can you name one?
Well, this site mentions around 1,072,000 “grievous harms”. https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
“Obsessions” like this are always the same: remembering all the good deeds now missing from present and deliberately forgeting all the bad deeds as if those two are separable. And vice versa.
Oh, this is is your irrefutable argument? Link to a funny looking website with tables? Numbers without context? Really?
Tito divided Serbia into three autonomous regions in order to dilute their vote during his reign in the former Yugoslavia. These administrative regions were Vojvodina, Serbia and Kosovo. Tito then further diluted Serbian influence by promoting autonomy for the ethnic minorities in these regions at the expense of the Serbs. One of these ethnic minorities, the Kosovo Albanians became a 90% majority in Kosovo and went on to proclaim independence. Vojvodina may or may not be next…
Tito’s admin borders also left Serbs living outside of Serbia proper in Croatia and Bosnia. At the time it didn’t matter since it was all part of Yugoslavia. Of course when these borders became national borders that’s when problems arose leading to the war in the 1990s.
I understand that Tito still has quite a following amongst Serbian Yugo-nostalgics.
The way I see it is that Tito’s policies provided the centrifugal forces that tore Serbia apart, so forgive me if I am not a fan.
I don’t know how much money was thrown into the brainwashing campaigns in ex communist countries, from what you wrote, way too much.
Yugoslavia is no exception. But the same process can be observed in entire ex Soviet block. Most rampant in Baltic states.
However, one thing which I don’t understand, If you follow Ukraine crisis lately, how can you not see through, and start questioning things which happen in your own country??
@Duff,
Actually, I see many parallels with the plight of the Russians in the former soviet republics and that of the Serbs in the former Yugoslav republics: a large number of Russians living outside Russia (e.g. in the baltic states, since you mention them), arbitrary borders that became national borders such as in Crimea, encirclement by NATO /EU/ and US-backed thuggish regimes…
But perhaps you would like to offer your own view as to why Tito was so great for Serbia?
My initial comment simply questioned why great news like the launch of the Serbian Saker blog needed to be linked to Tito who was not universally positive for Serbia…
My findings are quite the opposite, Tito was very much liked among the population.
Smear campaign was initiated in all Republics during the wars, and continued with privatization and ‘democratization’ slowly but steadily discrediting the values and achievements of previous era. I don’t see how the fact that Serbs or Russians, or Chinese or Eskimos live abroad, is related to the subject, but I see the parallel between smear campaign against Tito and attempt to vilify everything ‘communist’ in ex Soviet Union.
The same process, with the same agenda behind, but more violent is in full swing In Ukraine, where it they are smashing Lenin monuments and chasing communist.
I don’t think there was any Anti-Tito smear campaign in Serbia during the 90’s wars.
Serbs often fought under Tito’s Yugoslav flag to remain citizens of Yugoslavia and not find themselves to be living “abroad” overnight even on land their ancestors had lived on for centuries.
Yes, Tito had been popular but mostly at Serbia’s expense
Tito actions to Serbia’s detriment that Serbian Girl outlines are facts.
It was also Tito who first gave the Bosnian Muslims the status of a “nationality.”
Tito is often credited with holding Yugoslavia together by those who don’t remember that the Kingdom of Yugoslavia had already existed before the communists took power.
I agree totally with Serbian Girl. Tito would never even have been in power without the Western allies especially Churchill (“I don’t intend to live in Yugoslavia after the war”) betraying Col. Draza Mikhailovich and supporting Tito, even to the extent of giving Tito credit for all the military accomplishments of the Serbs under Mikhailovich. In a three-way war, the US and Britain did exactly the wrong thing by believing their own lies.
Also, Tito prevented the Serbs (50% of pre-war population of the historical Serbian province of Kosovo-Metohija) from returning so that he could benefit the Albanians, with the idea that he could harm his opponents, the Serbs, and help their enemies.
Any nostalgia for Tito-era Yugoslavia would be simply like nostalgia for Brezhnev-era USSR, being a relatively calm period but with underlying stresses that can play out in unpredictable ways, especially with the deliberate interference of the Western powers who benefit from destroying those systems no matter who suffers.
@carpatho-russian
What you and Serbian girl wrote is close to dangerous revisionism, at least when WW II period is concerned. Yugoslavia antifascist front was coordinated from Moscow via communist party. The entire operations were equally coordinated by Soviets and by the West. Whilst fighting against partisans, Draza Mihailovich was definitely not on the Alies side, which is the biggest controversy of his actions.
As royalist, Draza Mihailovich can naturally be considered closer to British interests than Tito. Naturally so, since young king fled the country founding a refugee close to his god father king George VI. Thus Serbo-British ties are undeniable.
Whilst Tito as the head of Communist Party, came into the power during Stalin’s Purges, when previous leader of Communist Party was executed in USSR. Which is more curios historical record, than anything else, if you ask.
As a consequence, the construction of communist Yugoslavia was based on the Soviet, actually traditional Imperial Russian method of integrating otherwise conflicting territories, by granting them special privileges. The same strategy is recently applied in Chechen Republic, and I would say that was the reason why Kosovo was given autonomous status.
@Duff
Mihailovic formed the first Yugoslav resistance movement against the Nazis. Tito only showed up later.
Churchill sided with Tito, not with Mihailovic!
It is completely wrong to say that Mihailovic was supported by the British. What does it matter if the king went to London? So did Charles de Gaulle and he was quite anti-British.
@Serbian girl, I wasn’t aware that such bizarre distortion of the history are so widely far-flung in every corner of the Earth. This one has a flavor of recent Ukraine’s renewed glorification of Insurgent Army. Celebration. Looks like Langley’s laboratory Frankenstein product of making Soviet veterans happily celebrate their joint efforts alongside with UPA patriots. ;)
I am completely bewildered by these responses from Duff.
New Serbian Saker team members, if you are reading this perhaps you could chime in?
It would interesting to know if you also believe that Tito was a great leader for the Serbs and that Mihailovic was a British stooge..
Don’t tell me, Serbian girl that you don’t know that this is controversial hot potato topic in Serbia?
Serbian Saker team may, or may not share your views,
Let’s see.
:)
@ Duff
“As a consequence, the construction of communist Yugoslavia was based on the Soviet, actually traditional Imperial Russian method of integrating otherwise conflicting territories, by granting them special privileges. The same strategy is recently applied in Chechen Republic, and I would say that was the reason why Kosovo was given autonomous status.”
Equating Soviets with Russians and then implying unhonourable conduct. Further muddying water with non elaborated statement about Chechen Republic and finally ending with reason for Kosovo.
You got everything wrong. Serbian Girl,verami and carpatho-russian told you truth.
This controversial hot potato in Serbia you are talking about,by the way, is a narrative forced by the MSM.
@ Serbian Girl Only time will tell will we ever be able to get rid of lies told about us.
Reply to @Dragan
1st None of you provided a single source to justify your claims.
2nd Contrary to what you’ve said, it is not MSM forced narrative:
The role of Draza Mihailovich in WW II was, for example, well researched by Russian historians Zadohin and Nizovsky in the book Europe’s Gunpowder Cellar
[Пороховой погреб Европы, Задохин, А. Г. and Низовский А. Ю.]
The Book is available online in Russian: http://militera.lib.ru/h/zadohin_nizovsky/index.html
Other historian sources, considered reliable, do not contradict Zadohin/Nizovsky research.
Actually, Chetniks collaboration with Nazi Germany and Italian Fascists is very well documented, so there is nothing to argue about, unless revisionism becomes a new norm. From what we see in Ukraine, with open rehabilitation of Bandera and Shukhevych, I would say if that is the tendency in Serbia, then God help you all.
@ Duff
We are fighting revisionism. After the WWII history in Yugoslavia was in the hands of Tito and his creatures. And they took that control after the civil war that was raging on the territory of Yugoslavia during WWII. Tito wanted to win the the civil war not WWII. After his victory came rewriting and vengeance on his opponents,losers of the civil war.
Links and comments on the topic are in this thread
/ukraine-analysis-for-the-week-of-april-13th-18th-2015-by-the-saker-a-croatian-scenario/#comments
There were many Serbian historians that went along those lines also. History of the victorious.
Why did foreign authors did that? I don’t know. But Tito was valuable after the war as much to the Americans as to the Soviets. Belgrade was teeming with espionage groups.
Yugoslavia was also important member of Non Aligned Movement which had a large voting bloc inside UN.
So he was valuable…
Main problem i as a Serbs have with his legacy is that he stopped denazyfication processes after the war. Swept them under the rug and forced the narrative Unity and Brotherhood (Bratstvo i Jedinstvo). And that is a sure way to have another war. Which we indeed had and if we do not settle things straight we will surely have another one.
His legacy is still being enforced by the existing power structures. Which are largely the same since the WWII. Even those in power now are continuing that policy. Rehabilitation of Draza Mihailovic is something “our” PM and President did only to spin it further. Because there are no traces of them actually doing anything to reconcile those Serbs who followed Tito (and there were many of them) and those who followed Draza. And all of them were fighting the Nazis.
We actually had two movements that fought Nazis. Representation that Partisans were “good guys” and Chetniks “bad” is not true. We are asking to open the files and follow the trails-all of the trails. That request is not an option. Whoever calls for that is called revisionist and being persecuted by MSM. Partisans “good” no matter what,Chetniks “bad”,also no matter what.
So now you understand our predicament. Yugoslavia was Serbian just as Soviet Union was Russian. In the least possible amount. And yet we are being branded as guilty for their crimes. Of which we were their prime victims. If not mother of all spins than at least an evil aunt.
@Dragan, after what you’ve wrote, I’d like to know your opinion about Serbian participation in a military parade in Moscow.
Serbia and Russia were and will be brothers. Post WWII Yugoslavia and Soviet Union not so much if at all. I am glad that my country sent troops to the parade. I am sorry we did not send more. We all fought the same enemy and we all gave so much in that war.
Be advised Duff,our current political leadership is against all citizens of Serbia. They serve western interests at the expense of people living in Serbia. Political diletants at best. At worse we should descend in some hell pits to name them properly. They destroy everything our ancestors bled and died for. Do not take actions of our government as a representation of Serbs. Serbia is occupied country which is still divided. Any attempt to gap that divide and move forward as Russians are doing with their history is met with extreme prejudice.
That fact alone can tell you that power structures here do not want that can of worms to be open. Of what are they afraid?
Their pro Russian actions? Just for show. People are pro Russian but government-NO. They are just maneuvering to stay in power in a situation when majority of population is pro Russan. Behind the curtain they are making everything possible to undermine closer ties with Russia.
So in effect, we are being besieged by every side and discord sown by Tito’s actions still haunt us and prevents us to move forward. We are quite touchy on the subject of Tito. He is a living wound among Serbs.
Victory day in Moscow is about Soviets of various nationalities and Yugoslavian partisans equally multinational plus others who were fighting Nazis.
I believe that was exactly what president Putin warned your president about, during his visit to Belgrade. In that respect your input is slightly contradictory, which I expected, though.
Otherwise I completely understand your concerns about the situation in Serbia, which obviously reflects current global issues. Political puppets are everywhere.
But,even if they are not I seriously doubt that any leadership would be able to cope with outright occupation, sealed with the biggest foreign military base on the entire continent.
@ Duff
Chetniks also fought Nazis. They should be honoured also.
Main points of contention about Draza Mihailovic are these two:
1. Collaboration with Italians.
Yes, he did collaborated with them. Why? Because of this:
http://www.jadovno.com/mila-mihajlovic-italian-sources-documents-on-massacre-of-serbs-in-dalmatia-lika-and-kninska-krajina-1941-1943.html
Ustashe began slaughter of the civilian population. Mainly Serbs,but Jews and Gypsies were included. Add to the mix Croats loyal to the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. So, in order to fulfill his oath to King and Country as an officer, he did what he could to save the innocent people he was honour bound to protect. He was after all,Commanding Officer of Yugoslav army in Fatherland. Meaning scattered troops that were left.
Was he wrong in my opinion? NO! Would you name that a collaboration? I do not.
2. Collaboration with the Germans.
Draza Mihailovic was not vigorous enough in his fight against the Germans. That is the extent of his collaboration. English did support Draza in the beginning. But a rift formed around late Autumn of 1941. English pressured the Yuogoslav Government in exile,to issue orders to attack part of the German supply line to Rommel in Africa that was passing thru Serbia. Despite this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kragujevac_massacre#/media/File:Notification_on_21_October_1941.jpg
Tito had no problem with innocent civilian deaths. Draza did. He put people first. Although he fought against the German throughout the war. Why would Germans issue bounties on his head otherwise?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DMihailovic_poternica.jpg
At the same exact amount as for Tito’s head?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Josip_Broz_Tito_poternica.jpg
Sorry,no translation to english.
Because of that, a shift in English support occurred and Tito became a favourite. Americans jumped the ship when they finished with bombing of Oil refineries in Ploesti Romania. Look up Operation Halyard,in whatever sources you trust.
Yes,some of Chetniks did collaborated with the enemy in true sense of the word. But those were exceptions made as a rule by Tito after the WWII.
As just one proof of Titos regime not going thru with denazification i give this:
https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/98265564?access_key=key-1hdr9x9wfjdhr2i3bkop&allow_share=false&escape=false&show_recommendations=false&view_mode=scroll
Magnum Crimen made a boom at the time. But the real truth was suppressed by the Tito regime. Imagine what boom would it make if that was revealed. Story goes that Unity and Brotherhood was more important than digging some bones. Actually some corpses did not even decomposed properly and we were told to forget them. Some did,majority in fact. And what we got? A repeat of events. 90’s conflicts were in most cases reenactments of WWII operations and unfortunately goals. Just as is the case in Ukraine.
So,things here during WWII were not so clear cut. And we are still not allowed to open those topics. I personally want to put this artificial division among Serbs laid to rest. And i am thankful to Saker and the community for the opportunity. I am thankful to you also,Duff.
Whoever wants war,may he find it in his home.
Duff wrote: “Victory day in Moscow is about Soviets of various nationalities and Yugoslavian partisans equally multinational plus others who were fighting Nazis”
But where where was Partizan solidarity on V- day?
Apart from Serbia, whose troops participated in victory day (in spite of our quisling government in Belgrade), did any of the other ex-Yugoslav republics send troops ? Croatia? Slovenia? Macedonia?
The truth is the Partizans were neither pro-Russian nor pro- Soviet. Tito was Churchill’s man.
Dragan’s description above is spot on!
I’m not going to argue any more ;) If genuine patriots you will try hard to figure out what is true or what is not for the sake of your country.
I will again recommend excellent and revealing book
“Gunpowder cellar of Europe” in edition: “Military secrets of the century” written by Russian historians. Since you are proud about your connections with Russia, then I hope, you’ll find it more credible than others. ;)
адохин, А. Г., Низовский А. Ю.
Пороховой погреб Европы
http://militera.lib.ru/h/zadohin_nizovsky/index.html
Enjoy!!
btw. Yandex works better than GT!
.
I wish you the best and battle for the truth and justice
Wishes from a Greek.
Let us Slavs come together and encourage inclusiveness, in particular with all our south slav brothers, including Slovenians, Croatians, Serbs, Macedonians. Let us be the first to emphasize our great similarities, and cultivate the seeds of the path to reconciliation.
bradcabana writes about ISIS as Saudi Arabia’s Foreign Legion, to draw Iran and Rusia into war:
http://rocksolidpolitics.blogspot.ca/2015/05/isis-frankenstein-or-bait.html?spref=tw
Hassan Nasrallah (Hezbolla) has said that Shia and Sunni are brothers and should not fight each other. The thing which is common to both Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi was that they challenged the hegemony (and hedge-Money) of the US, and ‘set a good example’ — bad example in US eyes — of being independent and caring about the social needs of the country). The same mistake made in Latin American countries. That, as Chomsky says, is ‘destabilizing’ — for the US empire.
WELCOME! And Thanks again to Vineyard saker for the great website! Keep up the good work!
Congratulation and welcome all of our brothers around the world with different religions and fate we should support each other around the all world, just to win this terrible battle what is going on right now around the world.
In mutual respect and compassion we will win this battle no matter what.
Yes I too want to welcome the Serbian Saker Site Readers !!! Last year when Serbia was having such terrible floods…was that last year ? …. I sent a small donation to Serbs for Serbs…and I got back such a sweet reply…I was so proud to have helped Serbia….WELCOME !!
Unfortunately, today most Serbs don’t use Cyrillic script anymore. They abandoned their great heritage and switched to Latin Script.
Serbs use both Cyrillic and Latin Script.
Street signs and official documents, for example, are in Cyrillic.
Mind you there does exist a foreign funded organisation in Belgrade called The Centre For Cultural Decontamination which would probably love to do away with Cyrillic.
Yes, I’m aware of street signs and official documents, some formal usage – all that is left. Look at Serbian sites, social media and comment sections (b92, blic etc) – about 80% Serbs use Latin script.
That’s worrying.
Maybe more will use Cyrillic when more mobile phones have a Cyrillic option.
The last time I was in Serbia most phones were the push keypad type only available with Latin script.
As for the media, nearly all of it is now foreign owned.
B92 of course is a Soros outfit.
Some people still care about coherence and comprehension between ex Yugoslavia nations who practically speak the same language, this is why the use of Latin script makes sense more than not.
Καλη επιτυχια στα αδερφια μας απο την Σερβια.
Our best wishes to our brothers from Serbia
Greece
Welcome to the Serbian Saker team. All the best to you all :)
Rgds,
Veritas
Cyril and Methodius were using Glagolic alphabet, not a cyrilic script.
Cyrilic script is a derivate of greek script, but is named cyrilic in honor of the sant.
Basis for what is now known as contemporary Cyrillic script wasn’t made by Saint Cyril and Methodius. They developed Glagolitic script. Basis for Cyrillic script you can find in Vinca 5000 BC. We should call it “bukvica”.
True, Cyril and Method were assigned in 862. to evangelize all Slavs, for that purpose they invented Glagolic alphabet.
Christianization of Rus’ happened more than 100 years later, in 987.
Interestingly enough that all of that was going on before East–West Schism, ie break between Ortodoxy and Catholicism in 1054.
According to some sources, evangelization of Slavs wasn’t as easy as it seems. Slavic inherent paganism was very strong, and is still present ;)
Stop spreading ignorance. Cyrillic was derived from a combination of Greek and Glagolitic letters by Cyril and Metodius’ disciples. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script and http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preslav_Literary_School.
So called greek culture has origin from predecessors and it is not original. Troya has nothing with Greeks, Moreja (Pelopones) wasn’t greeks till 1000 AC, Brigi (people on hills), Pelasginas were not greeks. Aleksandars (the Great) surname was Karanovic. “Karan” means that his family has famous origin as well. His fathers capitol was Pela (Bela). Aristotel claimed for himself that he is just half greek. Thesaloniki, Zante, Preveza, Rodos, Epir, etc etc are not Greek words. ….. I can write about greek phenomena a lot….. you would be taken aback with truth and simple explanations
so Magnus PLEEAASSSEEEEEE: Stop spreading ignorance!!! … investigate and read!
LOL, typical macedonian (or is it serbian) boy, forever claiming others’ history as his own. The Slavs only settled the Balkans in the 6th-7th century AD, so the name “Karanovic” would have been unknown during Alexander’s times. What next, boy, will you lay claim to Napoleon too?
I want to see a debate between you and this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9whwwTK6I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opc8m43bNtA. Grab the popcorn everyone!
So, you posted the link which confirms that Cyrilic script was not invented by Cyril and Method just to say that I’m spreading nonsense?
Chill Duff, my reply was to the “boy” wonder of historical revisionism and his Vinca nonsense.