Rather than paraphrase, I decided to post a screenshot, with Ukie flag and all:
Some have criticized me for using the word “Nazi”, but here again we have a *typical* Nazi reaction: when members of a national liberation resistance group kill an occupier, they are called “terrorists” and the Nazi command promises to kill 100 locals for every killed occupier. I think that any French or Italian reader will easily confirm that this was the standard Nazi practice.
I also love the use of the expression “Russian BM-21 Grad”. As opposed to what? The “Ukrainian” BM-21 Grad which have leveled Slaviansk so well that only 6% of the population lives there now?
And how about the “It is extremely important that Ukrainian servicemen demonstrate responsible behavior from the very first second after liberation of the cities. They give their FSR, water and everything they have to local residents“. Does he refer to the 6% which are left?
This also reminds me of the American “we had to destroy the village in order to save it“.
How is that for a “civilizational choice”? Right back to Nazi Germany. The EU really can be proud of its protégé tonight.
The Saker
Saker, the practice of executing 100 civilian hostages for each soldier killed by the resistance was introduced by the Germans in 1941, in occupied Serbia. Definitely a Nazi thing.
This is clearly not Putin’s problem — in action by word or deed from Merkel in regard to clear nazi resurgence is an endorsement of WW2 aggression. Japan’s Abe may bow b4 his war criminal graves but Merkel’s silence on the resurgence of German nazi ethos in Ukraine is absolutely scandalous. WW3 on its way it seems. We’ve learnt nothing!
Today is Saturday, 12 July, 2014.
That means WWII ended almost 70 years ago. If WWII would have been a human being, it would now be a pensioner and most likely herded toward a Senior Citizens Home to… uhmmmm, sit in a chair and stare out of a window.
Is Germany the only country with a TM/C to atrocities?
The Ukrainian Army behaves like the Ukrainian Army. Any reference to anything else is lopsided and taints the cruel and bloody reality on the ground. Strelkov and his men face enemies/opponents and I’m sure they have their ‘nicknames’ for them, I can live with that, but I, for one, am sick and tired of the term ‘nazis,’ because it has become meaningless thanks to its overuse and abuse as a broad brush to paint bigger pictures onto smaller canvasses.
The Ukrainian Army = The Ukrainian Army.
Period.
And Serbian too. During WW2 for one dead german soldier nazi killed 1000 Serbs. In Kragujevac nazi executed 7000 men and kids from school
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Šumarice_Memorial_Park
The most accurate adjective to describe the Kiev junta might be “satanic”, which I’ve seen a few times on twitter already. Indeed, Ukraine has a satanic government.
I won’t be happy if any of the junta make it till Christmas. Death is too good an end for them, but it would relieve the visceral need that they provoke to kill them all .
How did so much scum surface in one society? They all seem to be of the same generation, also. Was it Chernobyl, like in a sci-fi movie, that the radiation produced such monsters?
They evoke the image and odor of sewage.
And then to think they have handlers, benefactors, mentors and advocates . . . our leaders nourishing this scum.
Given that in Ukraine, the Pravi Sektor is working alongside Jewish oligarchs, apparently to the same end, it is difficult to decide whether Ukraine is following a Nazi model or an Israeli model. Maybe it is a bizarre combination of the two. Maybe it depends on who is actually calling the shots.
I’d be more inclined to trust Poroshenko’s promises regarding war than about another ceasefire, but those words weren’t for Novorossiya, they were to impress, or at least placate, his masters and putative supporters in Kiev and Washington. I expect he’s also keeping a very nervous eye on Kolomoiskiy… Bottom line, Novorossiya stands a far better chance of still being alive and kicking in six weeks time than this guy does, and I think he knows it too. (Irrelevant/irreverent aside: every time I see that pudge-pot in fatigues, it looks to me like he’s wearing either pajamas or (God help me) some sort of camouflage leisure suit (!) and, I admit it, I shudder…)
You are partly in wrong, Saker. The Ukrainian way is equal to Nazi, but Germans SS were less bastards then Ukies: during the famous ” Fosse Ardeatine massacre”, in Italy, “only” ten Italians were killed every dead German soldier! Ad maiora.
I think that any French or Italian reader will easily confirm that this was the standard Nazi practice.
=============================
I can confirm about Italy!
They also specialized in point blank (no provocation) roundups of male population to be deported and employed as forced laborers.
To be fair, I still think these freaks in Kiev are just a caricature of the original Nazis.
Apart from the fact that the latter were able to express the best fighting army and the best field generals of WWII, it suffices to point out that Nazis did not take orders from Washington, did not exterminate their own people, were expression of a genuine popular political will and did make their Country a superpower in terms of people well-being in six years, starting from rubbles and relying just on internal credit.
I’d really like to see their economic policies seriously researched at University levels.
It’s a pity that they fell for aggressive international posture, following a megalomaniac derive of their leadership and developing abominations as racial supremacy (an idiocy even more than a moral aberration) and the attribution of a horrible collective guilt for the Jews as a whole.
Their modern caricature in Kiev take just these last characteristics from them. Caricatures are always ludicrous!
They have just substituted the Jews with the Russian, now their leader are Jews.
The thing is undoubtedly interesting……
The Nazis did nothing for the economic well-being of the German people before WW II, nor did they rely only on internal credit. Their economic policies are superbly researched by Adam Tooze in his book, “Wages of Destruction”, which refutes every economic claim above. As to how they treated their own people, they were merciless in treating every slightest word of dissent. Please, enough of praise of the ubermensch. The real, substantive critique was worked out by Stalin
In WW2 the nazis also called the antifascist resistance fighters “terrorists”.
“Scherl:
Kampf gegen die Terroristen in Frankreich.
In einigen Teilen Frankreichs versuchen kommunistische Terrorgruppen immer wieder, die deutschen Sicherungsmassnahmen zu stören. Durch schlagartig durchgeführte Aktionen wird aber den Terroristen das Handwerk gelegt und fast täglich berichtet der Wehrmachtbericht von den Erfolgen gegen die Saboteure.
Wieder wurde in ein Dorf in der Bretagne eine Terroristengruppe gestellt. Auf dem Marktplatz finden die ersten Vernehmungen statt.
P.K. Koll, 3.8.44 [Herausgabedatum]”
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J27288,_Frankreich,_Bretagne,_Einsatz_gegen_die_Resistance.jpg
translation
Field Marshall Wilhelm Keitel, chief of the supreme command of the German armed forces:
“death penalty for 50 to 100 communists must in general be deemed appropriate as retaliation for the life of a German soldier”
Yonatan:
Given that in Ukraine, the Pravi Sektor is working alongside Jewish oligarchs, apparently to the same end, it is difficult to decide whether Ukraine is following a Nazi model or an Israeli model. Maybe it is a bizarre combination of the two. Maybe it depends on who is actually calling the shots.
The Nazi model IS the Israeli model.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/10/jewish-law-one-israeli-soldier-worth-more-than-1000-palestinians/
Ukraine: Nazi symbols became an official at the state level
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/stockinfocus.ru/2014/07/11/ukraina-nacistskie-simvoly-stali-oficialnymi-na-gosudarstvennom-urovne/
“According to the logic of Ukrainian politicians, after the sale of the national property oligarchs Western corporations, after the final blow to the local economy, after the storming of the House of trade unions and fire, arranged in it by neo-Nazis and the football fans, which are operated by a government organization, after the genocide of the people in the areas that refuse to accept the authority of the putschists and remain loyal to the Constitution, the next step in order to turn Ukraine into a modern and democratic” state, should be the legalization of the symbols of Nazism.
The authorities of Kiev happy indulge in nostalgia about old times, when their ancestors – “patriots” and “defenders of the purity of the nation” – has collaborated with Hitler, destroying hundreds of thousands of Jews, Russians, poles and Belarusians. Propaganda of Nazism became the apotheosis of the new regime that came to power after maidanovich coup.
Ukrainian television continues to present a distorted version of events, exposing almost heroes characters who were involved in heinous crimes against humanity. For example, Stepan Bandera, the founder of the Ukrainian insurgent army (UPA), as well as a Nazi collaborator and; at him now and then refer modern neo-Nazi movement of Ukraine, in particular the Right Sector, the members of which currently occupy high government and parliamentary positions…”
вот так
@Andrew:it is difficult to decide whether Ukraine is following a Nazi model or an Israeli model.
I would say that the Israeli model is the Nazi model. But, really, there is only one model – it’s a racist model: any model which denies our common humanity. Still, the degree by which the Israeli generals ape their Nazi predecessors always amazes me.
Have a great week-end!
The Saker
@ Daniel Rich:
Sorry Daniel, but there are both Ukraiian Army Units, and neo-Nazi untis on the Ukrainian side in this conflict, and the term isrmany, appropriate and accurate.
Granted, they’re not directly from Germany, but they’re inspired or possessed by the German Nazis.
Nazi or not, over-the-top state retribution has been around since ancient times. It’s part of the autocratic state’s calculus to make people take the reality of the state seriously. As Israeli agent and state terrorist Gabriel Shear says in the movie Swordfish:
“
They bomb a church, we bomb 10. They hijack a plane, we take out an airport. They execute American tourists, we tactically nuke an entire city. Our job is to make terrorism so horrific that it becomes unthinkable to attack Americans.
“
The reason Murkan forces decimated Fallujah was purely retributive, with an insanely excessive over-the-top kill ratio of at least 1500:1. (It’s probably much greater, though my apologies for not remembering the source, it’s been many years. I believe this was based on raw numbers.) As William T. Vollman says in Rising Up and Rising Down: Some Thoughts on Violence, Freedom and Urgent Means: Deterrence, retribution and revenge must all be didactic to accomplish their ends
Galician project.
see article by Robert Parry:
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/05/06-0
Note what is said there near end of article about some things from the Reagan years, 1984-5.
Now recall about something just after that, in 1986:
http://www.wernercohn.com/Chomsky.html
go to ‘Chomsky and the Neo-Nazis’
Chomsky, Noam, 1986, “All Denials of Free Speech Undercut a Democratic Society,” Journal of Historical Review, vol. 7, no. 1, Spring, pp. 123-127.
Chomsky came out defending holocaust deniers, on a free speech basis. The pied piper of the left.
Curious timing, to say the least.
Chomsky’s argument was so extreme as to allow also, under his qualification of no limits, acceptability for sedition, libel, slander, fraud, and all manner of corrupt speech that is illegal.
So is it any wonder we see howls of protest about Russia’s law against slander and falsified news? And guess who those protests are coming from. Project Galicia types, and fifth column types. People who want to produce propaganda.
People really don’t understand that rehabilitation of German military began even before the end of the war. Guess who was responsible? And guess who denies it. And quess who says it’s alright to lie about it all anyway, on a free speech basis.
Ukrainian army = proxy army.
Saker:
I would say that the Israeli model is the Nazi model. But, really, there is only one model – it’s a racist model: any model which denies our common humanity. Still, the degree by which the Israeli generals ape their Nazi predecessors always amazes me
In this vein, to fully showcase the moral depravity of my country America and also of Israel, I would like to point to the following article I just read in the Wall Street Journal and some related support articles elsewhere.
In Defense of Killer Robots
http://online.wsj.com/articles/erik-schechter-in-defense-of-killer-robots-1405035148
(by Erik Schecter … a writer on defense and security issues … He served [surprise!] in the Israel Defense Force. … last paragraph of the article sums it up):
“Ultimately, a ban on lethal autonomous systems, in addition to being premature, may be feckless. Better to test the limits of this technology first Who knows? Battlefield robots might yet be a great advance for international humanitarian law.”
Yes, a defense of creating “Terminator” style battle robots” and “testing” them out in one of the top three US news publications. I wonder who the unlucky folks are who get to be the test bed targets? I am speechless. But worse, this is apprently becoming a popular topic in the specialist press. Here is another one:
In Defense of Killer Robots
http://thefederalist.com/2014/06/06/in-defense-of-killer-robots/
Imagine a Kiev Coup monster style government with a collection of such machines, programmed to make 10-1 retribution executions for the death of a follow robot and 100-1 retribution for the death of a Coup militant, or to hunt down and shoot anyone who spoke Russian on the street. Don’t think that some nut in Ukraine’s “Internet Capital” Lviv isn’t dreaming of something just like this.
Germany owns the nazi swastika brand/symbol/copyright and silence on its use in Ukraine is endorsement, imo.
Speaking of Germany, also in the psychopathic Wall Street Journal today:
“Our Friends the Germans
“… Germany enjoys closer commercial and political ties with both Russia and Iran than do most other Western countries. The US needs to understand these relationships, and that requires intelligence. The US would be irresponsible if it didn’t eavesdrop on German officials..”
So now you know why Germany is still occupied, 69 years after its unconditional surrender.
He reminds me of an old phrase of Juan Peron, who learned much from the Italian fascists, referring to his political opponents “For every one of us five of them”
Thanks to all who make this site
Nicolás from Argentina
Warning! Strong gag reflex needed to read the following:
Адвокатом летчицы Савченко стал экс-защитник Pussy Riot (Lawyer pilots Savchenko became ex-defender Pussy Riot)
http://vz.ru/news/2014/7/11/695233.html (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/vz.ru/news/2014/7/11/695233.html
“Lawyer Ukrainian pilots Hope Savchenko, located in a Russian jail and accused of complicity in the murder of journalists, will become a lawyer and social activist mark Feigin, who previously defended members of the punk band Pussy Riot…”
His client choice just coincidentally coincides with this rubbish:
Вашингтон призвал Москву освободить украинскую летчицу (Washington has urged Moscow to release Ukrainian pilots)
http://www.vz.ru/news/2014/7/10/694972.html (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/www.vz.ru/news/2014/7/10/694972.html
“The U.S. Embassy in Russia is calling for immediate release of the Ukrainian pilots Hope Savchenko, who is under arrest in Russia, has informed the official representative of the US Embassy in Moscow…”
Russia doesn’t have a death penalty, but if they did, I would suggest hanging supergrrrrrl, along with her lawyer Feigin, from lampposts in front of the American embassy in Moscow.
вот так
Hope NAF already know and has a way to counter this: http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/statements/chollet-testimony-07092014.html
“150 night-vision devices, 150 thermal imagers, 1,000 Kevlar helmets, 5 explosive ordnance disposal robots, +96 radios” – @Catherina_News
Nazi-Zionist-Kiev ideology identical, e.g. racially cleansed land for a chosen people.
Oh and Zionist Jews (not that they ever originated in the ME) collaborated with Nazi Germany to stop emigration to Palestine, otherwise the Holocaust myth could never have been invented.
Anyway you can bank on it (pun intended) that the PTB, e.g. the Rothschild dynasty, play the same script every time.
Saker, you have ditched a previous comment of mine in this vein, but whether or not the collective punishment model is Nazi or Israeli (more properly Zionist) is illuminated in a most interesting fashion in Douglas Reed’s book, Controversy of Zion, as are a great many issues of historical relevance to this and any other conflict the Anglozionists and the USA are engaged in. I recently read it after seeing it mentioned on this blog and it was really an eye opener, and a huge reminder of how far the profession of journalism has fallen from it pedestal.
eagle eye
The real, substantive critique was worked out by Stalin
=========================
This must be the post-modern version of British humour.
What will be next? The denial of the sack of Constantinople in the XIII century by Western crusaders, mentioning the real, substantive confutation made by the Papist hierarchies of that time?
The policy of mass revenge against civilians in response to military losses is not specifically Nazi. It was established German army practice earlier. They did the same in Belgium in 1914 and in France in 1870.
I understand why you guys call one occupier dead = 50 occupied dead in retribution the Nazi model, but it doesn’t make it true.
Everybody did this during ww2, and it was legal under the Geneva convention.
It is always the other side that are propaganda victims, right?
One striking thing about P’s response is that he made no mention of the possibility that the rockets came from Russia. Why? One reason, of course, is that he wants to use the barrage as an excuse for atrocities against the resistance.
But is it possible that he fears that if the Uke forces believe that this really devastating attack came from Russia it will un-nerve them almost to the point of panic? “The Russians are coming” would be all it would take, I suspect, to put some units to flight.
The photos of this attack make it clear that the the bombardment was intense, tightly grouped salvos. precisely on target. I can hardly imagine the militia–even if they have the equipment and the missiles- are that good. It probably either came from Russia or a first class unit of the Uke army defected. In either case it has to have run a chill up Kievian spines.
Tom
Th
In Serbian cities Kragujevac and Kraljevo several thousand civilians are killed during WW2 by the German forces using principle 100 Serbian civilians for each killed German soldier. The truth is that boys and girls were taken from schools to be killed in this German retaliations. Poroshenko is really Hitler’s pupil. But this time real inspiration is coming from US.
I think there are differences between Nazi and Zionist (not Israeli as eagle eye correctly notes) models, primarily based on who was/is regarded as untermensch, when did that happen and what was/is the scale and duration of untermensch status and so on.
However, at the practical level, this discussion of fine detail is irrelevant and both ideologies are evil.
“The policy of mass revenge against civilians in response to military losses is not specifically Nazi. It was established German army practice earlier. They did the same in Belgium in 1914 and in France in 1870.”
But it is always the Germans that did this, and the British, French, Poles and Russians didn’t?
I’m getting tired of this Nazis as the ultimate evil, when the winners of WW2 were much worse, if you go by rapes and killing of civilians.
No matter how you turn it, the Ukrainians have the right to self determination as a people, and not just be the sacrificial pawns in a proxy war between the Anglo-Zionists and the Russians, while the Uke oligarchs are selling out their country to enrich themselves.
Can you cite concrete historical incidents of Soviet French or British forcesbrounding up and executing German civilians in response to killing of their soldiers? And no reprisal killings of civilians is not OK under international law. It is a war crime.
France:
Not exactly a 100…
but towns suffered cruelly..
Oradour sur Glane
Vassieux-en-Vercors
Usually it was in the order of 10 per wounded German nazi.
extract of newspaper at time:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1928&dat=19410917&id=YBEqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=l2gFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2963,6365707
With up to 50 French hostages could be executed, such as the case in Bordeaux.
I’ll sign off with this US State Dept bulletin(ww2):
The Nazis might have learned from the last war the impossibility of breaking men’s spirits by terrorism. Instead they develop their lebensraum and “new order” by depths of frightfulness which even they have never approached before. These are the acts of desperate men who know in their hearts that they cannot win. Frightfulness can never bring peace to Europe. It only sows the seeds of hatred which will one day bring fearful retribution.
to: Maedhros; I must disagree with you on your assertion that Germany produced the “best fighting army” of WW2. The Germans themselves stated that one Finnish soldier was equivalent to “two Germans or five Soviets,” THe Soviets said “three of either” Every Finn and most military scholars elsewhere has knowledge of the Winter War and subsequent combat with the Soviets. But be it noted that when the German forces, retreating from Norther Norway down through Finland, misbehaved the Finnish Army made short work of them. Most of the German equipment used American WW2 films provided from captured stocks by the Finnish Army.
Meantime, if 300 prior defenders of the Donetsk airfield just defected, as Strelkov claims, to the resistance things may be looking up the Donetsk. Viva Donetsaks libre!Tom
By the way, does anyone know what became of appointed gov Taruta? And what is the current situation with the Lugansk airport where antagonistic eastern and western conscripts were said to be looking daggers at each other. It’s a small airport on level farmland south of town. Looks vulnerable.
@Tom – Fair enough. Finnish were really astonishing in their accomplishments. The fact is that their involvment and theatre of operations was rather limited, too much so to make possible a general evaluation. Anyway, it’s true, they were nothing short of exceptional in that little, as they were facing giants.
Another Norwgian,
Of course that Ukrainians have rights but so do Russians. Nobody can force Russians to live in a hostile coutry. If Kosovo Albanians were actively helped in their separativism by the West, I think it is fair that Russians should be helped the same way, especially now that they are being killed by the Ukrainians. Or do I see double standars here, one for the Kosovo Albanians and another for the Russians?
Actually in occupied France it was family of resistance fighter that was punished, in Italy (after switching sides) it was town’s prominent residents that were executed by Nazis.
It was only in occupied Serbia that 100 random people were executed for killed German soldier and 50 for wounded.
But since Serbs are Slavs this is largely unknown. western historians are not interested in Slavic casualties in wwII.
….. in Italy (after switching sides) it was town’s prominent residents that were executed by Nazis.
=========================
Not at all!
They were randomly taken even there, only the ratio was less supremacist, around 10 most of times.
There were anyway also much worse occurrences, as a whole village’s people burned alive.
P.S. – Most historians are simply not interested in history.
German behavior in occupied Serbia during WW2 was expression of their inferiority complex. They were late starters in the world domination game, losers by definition from the start. Ideology of supremacy was just a mask covering their frustration. The irony is that they are now slaves of AngloZionist Empire. No real ideology, no real identity, just a skilled workforce. A sad ending for a nation that could have been success. (I am not blind for the qualities they have)
But the lowest of the low are small nations once gathering around Germans and now doing dirty work for AngloZionists, nations like Ukrainians and Croats. They all share one thing in common – inferiority complex which they manifest through hatred and crime. A month ago Ukie Nazi-revolutionaries (Turchinov, Yacenuk and other scum) appeared in front of the map showing Serbia as part of Croatia. There is no doubt that this is continuation of WW2 but this time the scum should be treated with a firm hand.