Found Sergey Guneev’s analysis of the South Stream Closure on an online western financial site whose editors agree “this is a bargaining chip now for Russia.”
Putin’s checkmate:
South Stream Closure: Europe’s Tragedy or Russia’s Bargaining Tool?
According to a Hungarian analyst, Europe’s opposition to the pipeline project has eventually led to the current crisis and will hit hard certain states, but also expressed his hope that the decision is not final.
According to a Hungarian analyst, Europe’s opposition to the pipeline project has eventually led to the current crisis and will hit hard certain states, including Hungary.
The gas pipe-lines from the North-Sea (lets say from Norways gas n oil fields) are not exclusive for their respective gas/oil companies. Hence gas coming to Europe can be supplied by Statoil, Shell, BP etc.
There should never be a monopoly on infrastructure (un-less this is a state owned monopoly to actually enforce private competition if it exists.)
Imagine a country or continent with a powergrid that can solely carry the electricity of the Electricity company of a particular country.
Or a internet fibre cable that can carry packets from a particular ISP.
Or a highway that can only carry trucks from a certain freight company.
Ar an airport that can only allow planes from the airline that financed it…
Or a harbor… Or train tracks… etc.
The principles of competition above apply to oil and gas pipe lines.
South Stream was designed to carry gas ONLY from Gazprom with is a state owned gas monopoly.
This means that potential gas coming from Caspian, Iran, the Middle East etc would be excluded. This would also exclude gas potentially developed by Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia themselves (if they were that stupid to start fracking).
That in itself allows for Gazprom to extend its monopoly.
For the obvious reasons of competition South Stream was violating not just “Energy pact 3 or smth) but the basic principle of European trade.
Period.
Now, was it also used in a geopolitical game by the AngloZionist to prevent Russia for having an extra route to Europe? YES
Am I, as a Bulgarian, ashamed that John McCain would dictate the policy of my country? EXTREMELY!
Still, Serbia, Hungary and the other gas-purchasing nations were ready for South-Stream.
The key was Bulgaria.
Yes one could argue, and I personally would painfully agree that Bulgaria is a country that has been a vassal / colony -state of either Istanbul, Berlin, Vienna, Moscow and now Washington / Brussels for over 500 years.
Nevertheless the way the South Stream ownership scheme was constructed it breaks with a fundamental law of market economics in the EU. If you think it shouldnt apply, please consult with the examples above.
In addition it wasnt really that profitable for Bulgaria. For the reported (no one really knows actually) 400M Euro in transit fees. Lets not mix income and profit… Building a pipe line also has a huge enviromental impact. Bulgaria (btw. 35% of cars run on gas not petrol in Bulgaria!) will get gas anyway.
Russia and Gazprom could really have done this differently and allowed for a European / Scandinavian model of joint ownership and concessions for competitive gas being able to flow. It would only be a benefit.
The problem is that the whole deal was made under very murky cirkumstances wit obvious bribes. Just like the Belene nuclear plant…
Again… having American tanks and military bases in my Bulgaria is something that makes my heart beat with anger.
Not having a Gazprom pipeline is something all Bulgarians should take quite easy.
As for the rest of the Saker Community, brothers and sisters lets not beat the drum on every victory or defeat in this war. The Zionists use it against us in their propaganda.
Very interesting talk on RT right there. Alexander Mercouris is telling it like it is, while the German guy and the Greek seem to persist in Euroland mythology.
The German commentator tried to underplay the EU conundrum by claiming that Russia had to offer heavily discounted gas to China and now Turkey. This is wildly off the mark. China will be getting only a fractionally lower price than Europe at the moment, but with the added caveats of massively long-term contracts (instead of European bickering about alternative sources and pressure for lower prices) and no Yankee interference. Turkey will get their discount but only under the condition that they will be buying lots of it and at the same time serve as a block to any other potential rival project (this last point is my own understanding of the situation) He also seems to overstate the time required for Russia to build new pipelines to customers in Asia of which there are several possible candidates outside of China.
The Greek commentator claims that there will be gas reaching Europe from Cyprus and Israel. Well, I am Cypriot myself and have been hearing about the alleged existence of gas offshore Cyprus but the whole project seems to be moving at a snail’s pace for several years now. In my view the whole discussion is nothing but diversory tactic so the concessions from Russia could be gained on energy matters. Alexander Mercouris was right to point out that we have been hearing about non-Russian pipelines reaching Europe for many years now, but nothing ever seems to actually get done. The Europeans are probably constantly bluffing and will ultimately merely burn their own hands.
Yesterday the US House passed what I consider to be one of the worst pieces of legislation ever. H. Res. 758 was billed as a resolution “strongly condemning the actions of the Russian Federation, under President Vladimir Putin, which has carried out a policy of aggression against neighboring countries aimed at political and economic domination.” In fact, the bill was 16 pages of war propaganda that should have made even neocons blush, if they were capable of such a thing. These are the kinds of resolutions I have always watched closely in Congress, as what are billed as “harmless” statements of opinion often lead to sanctions and war.
December 05, 2014 RT Cutting Russia out of SWIFT banking system would mean ‘war’ – head of VTB
Excluding Russia from the global SWIFT banking transactions system is another form of sanctions and would mean “war,” said Andrey Kostin, head of VTB Russia’s second largest bank, adding that should it happen Russia has a “Plan B.”
Kostin added that the banking system is highly dependent on the dollar and euro, and is the most vulnerable part of the Russian economy. However, he said Russia has an alternative should the SWIFT system be no longer available to Russia. Last month the Bank of Russia said it’s going to launch an alternative for financial transactions in May 2015.
It looks like someone is blocking access to Saker videos, as well as videos at other websites the empire might not approve of. I used to have a technique to override this but now even that has been disabled. Just wanted you to be aware of this.
I wonder if there are stipulations in the Turkey Russia contract about Turkey not be allowed to join the EU once the pipeline is built…otherwise Russia could find herself in the same “third party” situation.
This German guy, Matthias sure knows his stuff. Its admirable how educational it really is listening to him. I wish this could have worked out differently…surely Putin would be better off working with people like Matthias, than Ergodan…but this is what has happened because of politics…
You mention the issue of having a monopoly on infrastructure.
The issue is Bulgaria and the EU are not able to do it by themselves. That would require cooperation, unity, finance, best interest…
You can see where I am going with this cant you?
Bulgaria was indeed raped by the EU. It has lost a tremendous amount of agriculture and livestock production. Take Bulgaria’s giant produce for the USSR or the slaughter of the non “mad cow” disease carrying Buffalo’s in the 90s. These days Bulgaria is simply heaps of land that get developed by medium to big business via EU grants, with the ultimate product supplying Central Europe.
Technological productions were also eliminated since the main customer was the Soviet Union. Bulgaria’s expertise in information storage was enormous.
You are halfway right in saying that:
“Not having a Gazprom pipeline is something all Bulgarians should take quite easy.”
There isn’t much more that can be done and the people at this stage have gotten used to this being everyday life. All you need to do is look at some of these “tourist” concrete jungles on the seaside.
Whilst a pipe to Turkey would be beneficial to Russia it can also be seen as a worse and more dangerous option for Russia if you take into account the geopolitical pipelineistan game that is going on in the ME. There are many factors and much more uncertainty until it gets done.
Russia and Bulgaria in a partnership would have been more beneficial to both parties and in terms of geopolitical factors… if the EU didn’t get leaned on.
I sincerely hope Bulgaria manages to find a solid path.
The EU and US are controlled by certain financial oligarchs, and they are basically at war with Russia. So Russia uses gas as a political tool to keep Europe from being even more hostile. If Russia were to give this up, it would be bad news for Russia. The geopolitical angle of gas to Europe is more important than the profits. Much more important.
And, no, it is doubtful that Russia could have done this differently. Russia cannot trust the political leadership of the EU. Western oil companies can, because they are owned by the people who own the EU and US systems. The Third Energy Package itself is changing the rules during the negotiations and planning, isn’t it? So what is to stop the EU from changing the rules in couple of years again, to further attack Russia?
The obvious response by US will be to bully Erdogan, accuse him of corruption (true)– and failing capitulation try to regime-change him. Since this reaction by the Empire will have been anticipated, I don’t suppose Erdogan can have equipped himself w counter blackmail? (Or, somebody else might have done so, on his behalf).
Anonymous said, “The principles of competition above apply to oil and gas pipe lines.
South Stream was designed to carry gas ONLY from Gazprom with is a state owned gas monopoly.
This means that potential gas coming from Caspian, Iran, the Middle East etc would be excluded. This would also exclude gas potentially developed by Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia themselves (if they were that stupid to start fracking).”
Anonymous, One reason that analogies are not valid proof that an argument is valid is that there are always counter-analogies. Here’s one: Wd you construct a skyscraper if you cd only rent out half of it? Wd you construct a toll road if you had to let someone else collect half the tolls?
Probably a more essential argument is the following. If you are going to enter into a large-scale expensive project you need to decide whether the terms available to you are desirable. That is, are you willing to enter into it given those terms– is it sufficiently profitable, are legal protections available? Is competition likely to halve your profits?
Finally, altho the word “monopoly” is thrown around a lot by the MSM, Russia doesn’t have anything like a monopoly on EU energy. I think she supplies something like 30% now & after Turkstream will supply the same, since probably Ukrainian pipelines won’t be used.
However, I appreciate your sensitivity to the idea of fairness vis a vis monopoly situations. A monopoly we need to do away with is money creation by the international bankster cabal, as I’m sure you’ll agree.
I could be dead wrong but I didn’t believe for a second that Putin made a deal with Erdogan based purely on economic benefits.
It could well be that some type of Syrian solution was looked into but is being kept under the table as a possible future bargaining chip against the US:
Sure enough it was in Turkeys interest to see Assad go because of the “planned” Qatar-Saudi-Syria-Turkey pipe. Maybe Russia’s pipe will suffice for now and Turkey will start to stutter on the Syrian/US operations.
All that would be needed is to give Erdogan face saving opportunities when the stance on Syria slowly starts to change. In my opinion there was a little hint of this in the conference.
The extent of delusion is staggering. Bulgaria now decides to be a gas EXPORTER.
“At a cabinet meeting on Wednesday ministers discussed options to turn Bulgaria into an key gas exporter.” Prime Minister Boyko Borisov said.
[This is based on 2 fields they own which nobody’s explored yet, as the didn’t get enough interest last time they asked for bids to do so].
“This is 100 percent diversification, unlike telling us whether to receive the gas via Turkey or Greece, or via Ukraine… We have set aside BGN 100 M for interconnections, but all the gas will be coming from there [Russia],” Borisov asserted, claiming there are “billions of cubic meters” of gas in the two blocks.”
Sure their are, Boyko, sure there are. They’ll all come out by themselves by next winter too.
In another venue he said he hoped the sanctions had already played their role and relations will be soon normalised.
“I don’t know how Russia is affected by the sanctions, but Bulgaria is affected severely,” he said. =========
Borisov has only been Prime Minister since October 2104, when his GERB party won 32% of the vote. They’re now in coalition with the Reformist block. The previous election was in May 2013 after Borisov was forced to resign and call early elections because of widespread (and violently put down) protests about poverty. The election had resulted in spread votes so nobody could form a successful coalition. One member of Borisov’s party was charged after 315,999 good “spare” ballot papers were found at a printing works associated with his party. He claimed the announcing of this, the day before the election, had cost him the votes he could have won by.
In true Maidan style, the minority government was in trouble right away, not least because of further protests, this time over their choice for head of the National Security Agency, an oligarch in whose mother’s name are most of the Bulgarian media. This, combined with the new Government being Socialist, was interpreted as a step towards taking Bulgaria out of the EU.
Starting just weeks after the elections and going on for almost a year, fresh scandals reigniting it on a regular basis. These protests were supposedly organised on Facebook. They have a very strong colour flavour. Bad loser Borisov may have been involved (later admitted having considered it but didn’t do it). Known GERB supporters were at stage accused of opposing other protesters and acting as provocateurs (sound familiar??). There were claims US interests were behind some of it, that protesters were being paid, and an anti-protester offer to form “volunteer patrols” to help the police deal with the protesters (sound familiar yet???_
The upshot was new elections where Borisov got 3$ more votes than last time, making him strong enough to form a coalition.
The figures are a mystery to me. Out of 7.2 million people how do they have 6.9 eligible to vote? they let them vote at age 10??? there are no babies being born, the population is dropping like a stone. People literally can’t afford to live.
STAVROS H. says, “we have been hearing about non-Russian pipelines reaching Europe for many years now, but nothing ever seems to actually get done.”
This may be part of the US plan to keep EU as a dependent vassal and not a competitor:
The whole global warming hoax is in aid of the US controlling development of emerging nations and competitors, via controlling all the oil/gas and all the pipelines.
There was a story in the press this morning that from now on it will be difficult to get investment capital for new drilling projects due to the effect on climate. I’m sorry I didn’t copy the reference. The comment came from an international banking group & I wd guess is the opening salvo for another technique to keep oil & gas development confined to the present players.
ANN, Turkey has been trying to get into EU forever, but I think was finally told “Membership is only open to Christian nations.” I guess it wasn’t said this baldly, but anyway Turkey had already given up on EU membership.
natural monopolies should be in state hands…then it is totally fair if they let all ccmers use it. Of course with this craze for “private” ownership, everything has to be belong to big multinationals, the State only puts on one expensive regulation after the other, and the PEOPLE the State should be working for get shafted both ways.
Any law that forces someone to share what he built is not competition — it is a massive subsidy for the later entrants. Because I guarantee if Gazprom went along with it, EU would turn around and tell them how much they are allowed to charge the other users, too. The way this sort of issue is arranged in the REAL WORLD is, Gazprom builds the pipe. One of the conntries it rns through (or say someone at the far end in Caspian Sea) actually DOES fnd gas. Then they go to Gazprom and MAKE A DEAL how much for using the pipes.
In Australia, where I live, they “privatised” the electricity grid. Anyone who can get the permits may build a power station (usually something solar these days). I have to build the cables to get to the grid, and pay for use of the grid by how much I put on it. I then get retail customers, ordinary consumers, to buy from me. he actual electricity they get might have not one electron of the electricity my power station generated. Doesn’t matter because it is all the same…. so companies cannot compete on product differentiation anyway. We can compete only on price or service. I have modern efficient billing methods, use revenue well to manage my cashflows, keep friendly call centre and fast repairers, and make up “packages” that suit many people. So I end up getting more customers. I may end up selling a lot more than I produce, but I buy that from the others on the grid.
The government controls (by consultation)what the prices are for the consumers. Wholesale is then worked out for everyone to make a profit at that limited income level. BUT all this works because the grid is separately owned from the power producers.
When they “privatised” the landline phone system, they made the mistake of letting them own the lines plus sell to customers. There are monthly disputes and regular court cases that they are setting unfair bulk prices for other users of the network.
So, often a monopoly works out best. The Government itself is a monopoly. Can you offer to pay taxes to a competing Government? choose to contribute to the one that offers you better welfare? or better foreign policy??????
The big tragedy with Bulgaria letting the EU push them into blocking South Stream is, that in the name of competition, great harm has been done to all the countries that were part of it, that DID want it enough to stand up to EU about it. And what rightfully upset Russia about it was that this law was made AFTER the agreement, retrospectively. There is no business safety (nor personal safety either) in a place where something you do legally today can be turned illegal later.
Bulgarian anon, you need to get your country producing again. Without production, no income. No income, people leave, people don’t marry, people don’t have children. The way you are losing population now there will be no Bulgaria left in 150 years. There are abandoned empty ghost villages everywhere. Get out of the cities. Buy a dirt cheap village house. Grow your own food. LIVE. Feed yourselves, not the multinationals.
STAVROS H: Here’s the reference I was talking about re: banksters consolidating their chokehold on oil/gas & therefore development.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/fossil-fuel-investors-risk-being-stranded-by-tougher-climate-rules-20141202-11yvlh.html A major threat to fossil fuel companies has suddenly moved from the fringe to centre stage with a dramatic announcement by Germany’s biggest power company and an intriguing letter from the Bank of England. A growing minority of investors and regulators are probing the possibility that untapped deposits of oil, gas and coal — valued at trillions of dollars globally — could become stranded assets as governments adopt stricter climate change policies. Former chief economist at the World Bank, said in an e-mail interview. “Investments in fossil fuels should be seen as a rather risky activity.” Institutions opting to divest now include Stanford University in California and The Rockefeller Brothers Fund, built with profits from Standard Oil . “The world has changed when the Rockefeller family decides that they are going to divest from fossil fuels,” the UN’s top climate diplomat, Christiana Figueres, said Monday in Lima. 12/5/14
If Russia is kicked out of the SWIFT system, how will Germany pay for Russian gas? If there is no electronic transfer of money, then there must be physical transfer. If the Germans sent boxes of Euros to Moscow, what would the Russians do with them? These a Euros are only valuable if they can be used to pay for things, and that requires access to SWIFT. Without SWIFT the Russians would have to demand alternative payment methods, which may include gold.
Bulgaria and other orthodox countries have true cultural links with Russia (even though there are currently vassals of the West). Turkey and Turkish people hate Russia. There cannot be an alliance with Turkey. Turkey is a NATO member and is threatening the nearby christian countries and the turkish elites have plans for a new ottoman empire. Of course, they plan to take parts of Greece, Bulgaria and even to increase influence in muslim caucasus.
Your analysis is pure bullshit. Assume that your car or truck can only be used by you or your family members … What a shame. Everyone should be be entitled to use it, right?
You know very well what the problem is. The usual culprits want to steal everything possible from Russia, and they use any pretence of law or democracy to justify their deed.
Cancelling South-Stream and moving to Turk stream only has advantagis for Russia: a) same volume of gas to another strategic partner b) less investment necessary for the update of blue-stream c) almost no stranded costs, due only a little change from the russian side d) now never Turkey will accept LNG tankers crossing the Bosperus, so Ukraina will stay a “customer” e) Europe will in case, Ukraina does not pay, pay for Ukrainians gas consumption :), assuring Russians income f) transfer fees stay with Ukraina, which they mostly will spend for Russian coal, benzin, ….
for the EU I only see disadvantages a) no energy security b) no transfer security c) no transfer fees for poor south-eastern contries, i.e. higher costs for central EU d) higher cost for connecting to this gas-hub on the turkish/greece boarder; somebody has to cover gazproms share for e) additional cost for paying ukrainians bills f) there will be a pressure from the south to the north, due to north stream and energy security there
Maybe there is an advantage on the long run, whrer EU will develop new technologies for replacing gas, resp. substitute it with PV generated Methane (?)
I think the cancellation of South Stream is the only public and the less important output (owing to relatively distant future) of negotiations between Putin and Erdogan. It’s hardly more than loud slap to arrogant EU elities. There are much more actual issues for both gentlemen – Ukraine, Syria, Turkish support for ISIS, Turkish reaction to militarization of Crimea, Georgia, Armenia. Naturally, these outputs are not public. I also wonder what feelings about the “pact” are in Damascus and Teheran.
@Penelope: It is not climate change regulations that make these fossil fuel extraction projects risky, this is just the typical smoke screen to prevent acknowledging the means of the immanent demise of industrial civilization. Rather, it is too expensive to extract these deposits and so the investments will not be profitable. Forget about the “money” part, and think of it in terms of the energy return – at some point it simply takes too much energy compared to what you get to make it worthwhile, and this will happen before you get to 1:1. This is what peak oil/gas/coal looks like.
Russia is the only one that has not completely peaked, and it is why they are the target. The EU are fools to cut themselves off from the last remaining viable energy stream (although that is temporary too), SA cannot keep it up and the US has just accelerated the collapse of the fracking bubble. This is a battle for survival of civilizations and peak FF is what is driving it.
These times and events are among the pivotal in the history of collapsing civilizations. It is frankly breathtaking to have such a real-time view of it through the Internet – a one-time opportunity.
I am not favorablely impressed, however, with the way Lavelle quite rudely interrupted the German fellow, who was saying something interesting, to cut to the Greek fellow, who seemed like a deer caught in the headlights and couldn’t immediately think of anything to say.
The GErman fellow was quite right to roll his eyes at this pointless rudeness of Lavelle’s.
The German’s English not quite so smooth or speedy as Mercouris’s, but he (the German) obviously is very knowledgeable and he had not finished presenting his ideas. I am glad he pushed back the second time Lavelle interrupted him in midsentence.
@Marko who said If Russia is kicked out of the SWIFT system, how will Germany pay for Russian gas? If there is no electronic transfer of money….
This is why Russia (and the BRICS countries) are setting up their own electronic settlement system. And then they might not take Euros.
But they won’t kick Russia out, at least for now, because too many too big companies wold not be able to get their money from Russia…they still do big business there. Once the new system is going,they could kick Russia out…but then that forces them to use the news system if they have any dealing with Russia…or India or China or Brazil etc….if the want a chance to take the profit off at least SOME transactions they have to leave all these in SWIFT.
================== @ Miroslav it may be years before Turk Stream happens. If at all. A lot can happen between. But the important thing is, it changes the power associations in the area.Just buying ordinary stuff is different from a huge permanent joint venture. Putin can talk differently about Syria if he and Turkey now have a common interest in peace there, for example. Turkey has a hue population, they are young,they will keep growing. And there is big unemployment. He needs a way to get out of war, without losing face, and something solid to start improving the job opportunities.
Unlike one anonymous above, I don’t believe he is trying to build an empire. A lot of population is hard to manage, without having to manage extra territory and new minority populations as well. If he can be led to improving life for the people he has now, on the land he has now, he’ll be very happy. Now if he and Russia have big business together,he’ll not worry about Crimea either, militarisation there now is protecting HIS business interest as well. .
For Europe, it is not the elites Putin wants to smack. He is trying to slap some sense into the poorer countries, to wake up and stand up for themselves.
Kind of funny listening to the Europeans saying South Stream “ain’t” dead yet. It is dead. As Alexander said – the time to speak up against the USSA corrupt EU was a lot earlier.
By Anonymous [01:36] “The principles of competition above apply to oil and gas pipe lines.
South Stream was designed to carry gas ONLY from Gazprom with is a state owned gas monopoly.
This means that potential gas coming from Caspian, Iran, the Middle East etc would be excluded. This would also exclude gas potentially developed by Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia themselves (if they were that stupid to start fracking).
That in itself allows for Gazprom to extend its monopoly.
For the obvious reasons of competition South Stream was violating not just “Energy pact 3 or smth) but the basic principle of European trade.
Period. […]”
Is that a quote by someone else or those are your thoughts? I cannot tell. But do pray tell, why the Russians have to build and finance a pipeline that then will be open to be used by third parties, presumably free of charge on top of everything else? Unless it’s a joint venture where all the interested parties are contributing financially towards the project, or Gazprom is able to charge fees to third party users for using their pipeline, the monopoly argument doesn’t wash. Otherwise it just becomes a case of; let’s just use Russian stuff for free, pretty much like Ukrainian oligarchs have been doing by siphoning Russian gas off their pipelines in the not so distant past.
Second, the Third Energy Package clause was added after the contract/agreement was signed, as Mercouris pointed out in this program and in one of his latest articles posted here at the Saker’s blog. Being a lawyer, Mercouris knows that you can’t just add random new conditions to an existing and already signed contract.
–
By Stavros H: “Very interesting talk on RT right there. Alexander Mercouris is telling it like it is, while the German guy and the Greek seem to persist in Euroland mythology.”
LoL! I know! They both look so lost in the woods that is not even funny (I’m excluding Alexander of course, the guy is a legend!)
It’s dismaying to think that these people make a living out of being completely clueless. Can I get a job like that? Not having the foggiest idea of what I’m talking about, yet being paid handsomely for it?
I agree with you that this entire craze over global warming is a new kind of “racism” to keep the former colonies down in all respects. Even if there is some scientific merit in the argument, I completely fail to see how this justifies imposing draconian restrictions on poor nations’ ability to industrialize etc while western nations have been exploiting and polluting the planet for centuries. Even if some degree of global warming does indeed take place it could be easily dealt with if poor countries become more powerful economically so that they could complete the necessary public works to protect them from the alleged effects of global warming.
As for the issue of the persistent talk and publicity over alleged non-Russian pipelines reaching Europe, I am almost 100% convinced that the Anglo-Zionists are behind it. It serves as a scare tactic and maskarovka so that Russia can be bargained down and blackmailed over energy and other issues. I think that the Russians though have started to more and more see through this cynical bluffing on the part of the Empire and are now playing hardball. This may be an added reason (among several) that spurred the AZ empire in their latest war against Russia.
Just to briefly mention some bluffing on the part of the Empire of alleged pipelines:
1) Nabucco 2) Trans-Caspian or some BS like that 3) Poland supposedly was to become a shale gas powerhouse. Utter BS. 4) Same was said of Romania 5) Cyprus/Greece/Israel. Even more smoke and mirrors in my opinion. 6) Lithuania building an LNG station 7) Alleged unlimited supply of US shale gas etc…
I am sure there much more examples that I am missing. The AZs also fail to ever really emphasize that Norwegian, North Sea and Dutch gas production is on a downward and irreversible decline.
Re the German guy and the Greek seem to persist in Euroland mythology.”
LoL! I know! They both look so lost in the woods that is not even funny
I don’t think the GErman guy looked “lost in the woods.” He made good points. As one who recalled and spoke of good German-Soviet trade relations he called attention to the impracticality and ideological bent of much that has happened since, mainly, the Third Energy Package and the importance of trust also in business dealings. Many people comprehend about zero about the relationship of the current Gazprom to the Soviet Gazprom—more continuity than not. He showed that he actually knows where some of the big gas fields and Russian emphasis now lie— Shtokman field etc. in the Arctic and infrastructure to sell this nearby gas to Europe. He presents himself as one who values the earlier trust, understands the whole trust issue, and lays the blame for the loss of trust squarely with the EC. People like him may be potential counterparties in future German-Russian gas trade. He is in a sense holding a door open, keeping a door open, and unles you can predict the future, that is not a bad idea. That gas is very close to Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, all of whom, per ITAR-TASS, are 100% dependent on Russian gas: http://itar-tass.com/en/infographics/7208
People like this German are ones who may be able to craft face-saving ways for the EC to undo some of the nonsense. Another point to bear in mind is that, I am quite sure, the Third Energy Package was a response to Russia’s response to Ukrainian gas shenanigans in 2006 and 2009 and steps Russia took to deal with Ukrainian politicians then in power.
Penelope ( I think?) “The whole global warming hoax is in aid of the US controlling development of emerging nations and competitors, via controlling all the oil/gas and all the pipelines”
The entire anthropogenic warming hoax is bigger then that- Much bigger Regarding stranded investors? Much hand wringing distraction but look what the big players say
“Energy majors such as Exxon Mobil, Chevron, Royal Dutch Shell and Glencore say they’re not concerned about stranded assets because demand is growing, and fossil fuels will be the only way to satisfy those needs cheaply and reliably for decades to come” Hence, no one is worried Any move to ‘green’ are simply to take advantage of big, big generous taxpayer funding (which should not be happening) for profit and serves to drive up the prices of energy for all It’s win/win Carbon has been “restricted” allegedly via trade in the EU for years now and the outcome, no decrease in carbon emissions. Meanwhile carbon emissions grow and AGW pauses for nearly 20 years now..
“And why is carbon the basis of all life currently known?
Basically, the answer is that life is complex, and more to the point that it must be complex. You can’t create an organism capable of regulating its internal state, of moving, eating and excreting, and of replicating itself to create offspring, without a wide variety of molecules. You’re going to need a central building block that can support complex branched structures while remaining strong — but not so strong that you can’t easily rearrange the whole thing later. There’s also the fact that carbon happens to be an abundant element on Earth, one available to early replicators, but for the most part we are carbon-based because carbon makes a good backbone”
Restricting carbon is restricting life itself. As long as the Useless Nations and the even more useless IPCC deny the role of the sun, they can’t be taken seriously at all
About alternative energy sources…is everyone aware of the amount of bird 9migratory) flocks that get killed every day by those horrible windmills ? Is causing bird populations to decrease faster than anything else. I hope the oil companies don’t start building more of those things…
You know, this bashing Germany and Europe that’s going on on this thread is racism. The people of no countries deserve what the politicians are dishing out. Now Putin has to deal with that sleazeball Ergodan…who’s helping ISIS. And I’m not saying that ISIS isn’t something that is also a symptom of politics. But even so, Ergodan is not Germany…and Germany is a great, great country, if she could only get her politician(s) under her control. Same as America.
Anonymous @15:11 says, “This is what peak oil/gas/coal looks like. Russia is the only one that has not completely peaked, and it is why they are the target.”
Anonymous, Peak oil is a hoax designed originally to support the price, also as an excuse for war.
As Wm Engdahl says, oil/gas are renewable resources– natural products of the earth’s core. We are running into oil, not out of it. The known untapped reserves are in fabulous quantities. They include Iran’s South Pars, Qatars North Pars, the Caspian , the Mediterranean off Greece, off Gaza, and others.
Stavros H: I think they’re bluffing about their willingness to invest and build the pipelines. EU doesn’t have the money. Qatar can’t get Syria to let them build the pipeline ontheir territory cuz Syria wants the Iran-Iraq-Syria and on to Europe, which neither Qatar, Saudis nor US will permit.
I think there’s plenty of gas though. Although Fracking is a ponzi scheme. Wm Engdahl has several articles pointing out that in the US they’ve spent more on fracking than they got for their product (and that was BEFORE the price reduction. Only reason they kept fracking: free money from QE.
Stavros H: Re: Global warming. The temperature has increased less than one degree F in an entire century. There are oscillations of temperature approx every 30 years– warming, cooling, warming. Has to do w the sunspot cycle, Pacific Decadal Oscillation, etc.
Big money continues to be behind this hoax, but they are getting it all back & then some in govt ‘green’ expenditure. And just think how many activists they are distracting into an area totally harmless to themselves.
ANN: Yeah, I agree: It’s not the people of the govts that are the villains– just a bankster/political elite who control the media & occupy the levers of power.
Antarctica near record levels of ice. Arctic a lil under the average. The Northwest Passage between the Pacific and Atlantic remained frozen all last summer.
Remember the scientific crew who had to be helicoptered off a ship stranded in the ice last Christmas? They were there to document the melting! LOL
The ice core record shows that CO2 FOLLOWS periods of warming– cuz cold water holds more CO@, so when it warms . . . .
Penny: The tightening up on credit to develop new oil & gas is not to do damage to the big boys: They’ve got plenty of dough. It’s to exclude new entrants, control supply.
No offense intended Ann, but “if she could only get her politician(s) under her control. Same as America” sounds more and more like a pipe dream. Germany is occupied territory, and had been for almost fifty years. Short of a civil war, I don’t think anything is going to change in Germany or America.
There will be no civil war at least in the US. The government has too much control over the people with the militarization of the police and the spying on all of us. Also censoring of different viewpoints even on Facebook. Our only hope lies with President Putin and his allies destroying the NWO hegemony.
Turkey could be a business partner to Russia, nothing more nothing less. Turkey’s military is completely dependent on USA and Turkey is a member state of NATO and a vassal of USA (despite some of the rhetoric of the Turkish elites against Israel etc). Turkish strategic interests are opposite to the Russian strategic interests in middle east (Syria ,Iran, caucasus etc ).
In reality, Russia is alone.
Even China and Brics are not Russian alllies (like the Warsaw Pact alliance). They are merely business and trade partners. BRics (with the exception of Russia) have limited sovereignty and power to stand up against NWO.
Russia is now facing an economic warfare.
The only solution is to disconnect from globalization and to build an alternative economic system and power bloc.
“I don’t think the GErman guy looked “lost in the woods.” He made good points. As one who recalled and spoke of good German-Soviet trade relations […] Many people comprehend about zero about the relationship of the current Gazprom to the Soviet Gazprom—more continuity than not.”
Fair enough, but the thing is that neither of them said anything that haven’t been said in Cross Talk like a million times already, and this program wasn’t really about the history of Gazprom, it was about the surprise deal with Turkey and all its potential geopolitical implications. Regarding the main topic; they had no idea what to say.
On the other hand, you have people like Mike Whitney, that do understand the subject matter and are not interested in face-saving exercises either:
Putin Gobsmacks Obama and Euro-Leaders with Surprise Gas Deal
[Excerpts]
“While the media is characterizing the change in plans (Putin has abandoned the South Stream pipeline project that would have transported gas to southern Europe) as a “diplomatic defeat” for Russia, the opposite appears to be the case. Putin has once again outmaneuvered the US on both the energy and geopolitical fronts adding to his long list of policy triumphs.”
“Korybko seems to be alone in grasping the magnitude of what happened in Ankara on Monday, although –judging by the Obama administration’s silence on the topic–the gravity of the transaction is beginning to sink in. Grandmaster Vlad’s latest move has caught US powerbrokers flat-footed and left them speechless. This is a scenario that no one had anticipated and, if it’s not handled correctly, could turn out to be a real nightmare.”
“But why the silence? Why hasn’t the White House issued a statement about the big Russian-Turkey gas deal that everyone’s talking about?
I’ll tell you why. It’s because they don’t know what the hell just hit them, that’s why. They were completely blindsided by the announcement and can’t quite figure out what it means for the issues that are on the very top of their foreign policy agenda, like the pivot to Asia, or the wars in Syria and Ukraine, or the much-ballyhooed gas pipeline from Qatar to the EU, that was supposed to transit– you guessed it– Turkey. Is that plan still in the works or has the Putin-Erdogan alliance put the kibosh on that gem too? Let’s face it, Putin has really knocked it out of the park this time. Team Obama is clearly out of its league and has no idea of what’s going on. If Turkey turns eastward and joins the growing Russian bloc, US policymakers are going to have to scrap the better part of their strategic plans for the coming century and go back to Square 1. What a headache.[…]”
Guys, guys…. Turk Stream goes ONLY TO THE BORDER with Greece, with a HUB.
The hub ends up in THIN AIR unless the fools in Europe get together and BUILD SOUTH STREAM.
They’ll just have to pay for all of it themselves, that’s all.
Gazprom boss Alex Miller quite plainly explained this when he said there is a new sales system for Europe… they will have to buy at the border.
“Love cannot be forced,” Miller said. “If a customer doesn’t want doorstep delivery, then he apparently has to put on clothes and go shopping, and if it is winter time – he’ll have to bundle up and go out for any package he wants,” Miller said, adding that in the case of the EU “it could as well be the Third Energy Package”.
“Shopping will now be done at the tie-in facility,” which will be the trading platform on the Turkish-Greek border, indicated Miller. Unlike the South Stream, the new project does not fall under the EU’s Third Energy Package.
Then it will be up to the to work out who pays who for what transit fees, too.
Plus it leaves all of Europe depending on TURKEY instead of Ukraine. I do not think that is much of an improvement.
Putin held phone conversations with Hungary and Serbia, not much detail of interest published. Guess he’ll talk privately to all those who wanted SS, Bulgaria maybe not.
“I don’t think the GErman guy looked “lost in the woods.” . . .
Fair enough, but the thing is that neither of them said anything that haven’t been said in Cross Talk like a million times already, and this program wasn’t really about the history of Gazprom, it was about the surprise deal with Turkey and all its potential geopolitical implications. Regarding the main topic; they had no idea what to say.
We both watched the same show. I’ll restate once: I disagree that the German “had no idea what to say.” We all know what the show was about, and IMO the German’s comment were relevant to the discussion. “a million times already”—is pointless hyperbole. Time to move on.
Found Sergey Guneev’s analysis of the South Stream Closure on an online western financial site whose editors agree “this is a bargaining chip now for Russia.”
Putin’s checkmate:
South Stream Closure: Europe’s Tragedy or Russia’s Bargaining Tool?
According to a Hungarian analyst, Europe’s opposition to the pipeline project has eventually led to the current crisis and will hit hard certain states, but also expressed his hope that the decision is not final.
MOSCOW, December 2 (Sputnik) — With the announcement of South Stream project closure by Russia, European analysts predict harmful consequences for Europe, but also note there is a chance the decision was not final.
According to a Hungarian analyst, Europe’s opposition to the pipeline project has eventually led to the current crisis and will hit hard certain states, including Hungary.
The gas pipe-lines from the North-Sea (lets say from Norways gas n oil fields) are not exclusive for their respective gas/oil companies. Hence gas coming to Europe can be supplied by Statoil, Shell, BP etc.
There should never be a monopoly on infrastructure (un-less this is a state owned monopoly to actually enforce private competition if it exists.)
Imagine a country or continent with a powergrid that can solely carry the electricity of the Electricity company of a particular country.
Or a internet fibre cable that can carry packets from a particular ISP.
Or a highway that can only carry trucks from a certain freight company.
Ar an airport that can only allow planes from the airline that financed it…
Or a harbor…
Or train tracks…
etc.
The principles of competition above apply to oil and gas pipe lines.
South Stream was designed to carry gas ONLY from Gazprom with is a state owned gas monopoly.
This means that potential gas coming from Caspian, Iran, the Middle East etc would be excluded. This would also exclude gas potentially developed by Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia themselves (if they were that stupid to start fracking).
That in itself allows for Gazprom to extend its monopoly.
For the obvious reasons of competition South Stream was violating not just “Energy pact 3 or smth) but the basic principle of European trade.
Period.
Now, was it also used in a geopolitical game by the AngloZionist to prevent Russia for having an extra route to Europe? YES
Am I, as a Bulgarian, ashamed that John McCain would dictate the policy of my country? EXTREMELY!
Still, Serbia, Hungary and the other gas-purchasing nations were ready for South-Stream.
The key was Bulgaria.
Yes one could argue, and I personally would painfully agree that Bulgaria is a country that has been a vassal / colony -state of either Istanbul, Berlin, Vienna, Moscow and now Washington / Brussels for over 500 years.
Nevertheless the way the South Stream ownership scheme was constructed it breaks with a fundamental law of market economics in the EU. If you think it shouldnt apply, please consult with the examples above.
In addition it wasnt really that profitable for Bulgaria. For the reported (no one really knows actually) 400M Euro in transit fees. Lets not mix income and profit… Building a pipe line also has a huge enviromental impact. Bulgaria (btw. 35% of cars run on gas not petrol in Bulgaria!) will get gas anyway.
Russia and Gazprom could really have done this differently and allowed for a European / Scandinavian model of joint ownership and concessions for competitive gas being able to flow. It would only be a benefit.
The problem is that the whole deal was made under very murky cirkumstances wit obvious bribes. Just like the Belene nuclear plant…
Again… having American tanks and military bases in my Bulgaria is something that makes my heart beat with anger.
Not having a Gazprom pipeline is something all Bulgarians should take quite easy.
As for the rest of the Saker Community, brothers and sisters lets not beat the drum on every victory or defeat in this war. The Zionists use it against us in their propaganda.
Very interesting talk on RT right there. Alexander Mercouris is telling it like it is, while the German guy and the Greek seem to persist in Euroland mythology.
The German commentator tried to underplay the EU conundrum by claiming that Russia had to offer heavily discounted gas to China and now Turkey. This is wildly off the mark. China will be getting only a fractionally lower price than Europe at the moment, but with the added caveats of massively long-term contracts (instead of European bickering about alternative sources and pressure for lower prices) and no Yankee interference. Turkey will get their discount but only under the condition that they will be buying lots of it and at the same time serve as a block to any other potential rival project (this last point is my own understanding of the situation) He also seems to overstate the time required for Russia to build new pipelines to customers in Asia of which there are several possible candidates outside of China.
The Greek commentator claims that there will be gas reaching Europe from Cyprus and Israel. Well, I am Cypriot myself and have been hearing about the alleged existence of gas offshore Cyprus but the whole project seems to be moving at a snail’s pace for several years now. In my view the whole discussion is nothing but diversory tactic so the concessions from Russia could be gained on energy matters. Alexander Mercouris was right to point out that we have been hearing about non-Russian pipelines reaching Europe for many years now, but nothing ever seems to actually get done. The Europeans are probably constantly bluffing and will ultimately merely burn their own hands.
Lots of chatter that War with Russia anticipated. Should we prepare?
Look at these headlines on both side of the Atlantic:
1.
RECKLESS CONGRESS ‘DECLARES WAR’ ON RUSSIA-Ron Paul
Today the US House passed what I consider to be one of the worst pieces of legislation ever
Yesterday the US House passed what I consider to be one of the worst pieces of legislation ever. H. Res. 758 was billed as a resolution “strongly condemning the actions of the Russian Federation, under President Vladimir Putin, which has carried out a policy of aggression against neighboring countries aimed at political and economic domination.”
In fact, the bill was 16 pages of war propaganda that should have made even neocons blush, if they were capable of such a thing.
These are the kinds of resolutions I have always watched closely in Congress, as what are billed as “harmless” statements of opinion often lead to sanctions and war.
. . . . .
2.
‘Aggressor nation’ bill put to parliament
State Duma deputies have drafted a motion defining all countries that introduce sanctions against Russia as “aggressor nations” and ordering automatic reciprocal sanctions against them.
3. In Australia
Mr. Putin’s annual state of the nation address is reported by Australia’s Broadcasting Corp as
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-05/putin-says-foes-hope-to-dismember-russia/5945496
Accuses West of seeking to destroy Russia
. . . . .
December 05, 2014 RT
Cutting Russia out of SWIFT banking system would mean ‘war’ – head of VTB
Excluding Russia from the global SWIFT banking transactions system is another form of sanctions and would mean “war,” said Andrey Kostin, head of VTB Russia’s second largest bank, adding that should it happen Russia has a “Plan B.”
“In my personal opinion, if such a sanction is introduced it would mean war,” Kostin said in an interview with Germany’s Handelsblatt newspaper. If Russian banks no longer have access to SWIFT, the American ambassador would leave Moscow the same day, he said.
Kostin added that the banking system is highly dependent on the dollar and euro, and is the most vulnerable part of the Russian economy. However, he said Russia has an alternative should the SWIFT system be no longer available to Russia. Last month the Bank of Russia said it’s going to launch an alternative for financial transactions in May 2015.
It looks like someone is blocking access to Saker videos, as well as videos at other websites the empire might not approve of. I used to have a technique to override this but now even that has been disabled. Just wanted you to be aware of this.
I wonder if there are stipulations in the Turkey Russia contract about Turkey not be allowed to join the EU once the pipeline is built…otherwise Russia could find herself in the same “third party” situation.
This German guy, Matthias sure knows his stuff. Its admirable how educational it really is listening to him. I wish this could have worked out differently…surely Putin would be better off working with people like Matthias, than Ergodan…but this is what has happened because of politics…
Well, I guess Alexander has a point…Europe is possibly not any more relliable than Turkey now. what a mess.
@Bulgarian Anon
You mention the issue of having a monopoly on infrastructure.
The issue is Bulgaria and the EU are not able to do it by themselves. That would require cooperation, unity, finance, best interest…
You can see where I am going with this cant you?
Bulgaria was indeed raped by the EU. It has lost a tremendous amount of agriculture and livestock production. Take Bulgaria’s giant produce for the USSR or the slaughter of the non “mad cow” disease carrying Buffalo’s in the 90s. These days Bulgaria is simply heaps of land that get developed by medium to big business via EU grants, with the ultimate product supplying Central Europe.
Technological productions were also eliminated since the main customer was the Soviet Union. Bulgaria’s expertise in information storage was enormous.
You are halfway right in saying that:
“Not having a Gazprom pipeline is something all Bulgarians should take quite easy.”
There isn’t much more that can be done and the people at this stage have gotten used to this being everyday life. All you need to do is look at some of these “tourist” concrete jungles on the seaside.
Whilst a pipe to Turkey would be beneficial to Russia it can also be seen as a worse and more dangerous option for Russia if you take into account the geopolitical pipelineistan game that is going on in the ME. There are many factors and much more uncertainty until it gets done.
Russia and Bulgaria in a partnership would have been more beneficial to both parties and in terms of geopolitical factors… if the EU didn’t get leaned on.
I sincerely hope Bulgaria manages to find a solid path.
Bulgarian,
The EU and US are controlled by certain financial oligarchs, and they are basically at war with Russia. So Russia uses gas as a political tool to keep Europe from being even more hostile. If Russia were to give this up, it would be bad news for Russia. The geopolitical angle of gas to Europe is more important than the profits. Much more important.
And, no, it is doubtful that Russia could have done this differently. Russia cannot trust the political leadership of the EU. Western oil companies can, because they are owned by the people who own the EU and US systems. The Third Energy Package itself is changing the rules during the negotiations and planning, isn’t it? So what is to stop the EU from changing the rules in couple of years again, to further attack Russia?
The obvious response by US will be to bully Erdogan, accuse him of corruption (true)– and failing capitulation try to regime-change him. Since this reaction by the Empire will have been anticipated, I don’t suppose Erdogan can have equipped himself w counter blackmail? (Or, somebody else might have done so, on his behalf).
No, I’m just dreaming.
Anonymous said, “The principles of competition above apply to oil and gas pipe lines.
South Stream was designed to carry gas ONLY from Gazprom with is a state owned gas monopoly.
This means that potential gas coming from Caspian, Iran, the Middle East etc would be excluded. This would also exclude gas potentially developed by Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia themselves (if they were that stupid to start fracking).”
Anonymous, One reason that analogies are not valid proof that an argument is valid is that there are always counter-analogies. Here’s one: Wd you construct a skyscraper if you cd only rent out half of it? Wd you construct a toll road if you had to let someone else collect half the tolls?
Probably a more essential argument is the following. If you are going to enter into a large-scale expensive project you need to decide whether the terms available to you are desirable. That is, are you willing to enter into it given those terms– is it sufficiently profitable, are legal protections available? Is competition likely to halve your profits?
Finally, altho the word “monopoly” is thrown around a lot by the MSM, Russia doesn’t have anything like a monopoly on EU energy. I think she supplies something like 30% now & after Turkstream will supply the same, since probably Ukrainian pipelines won’t be used.
However, I appreciate your sensitivity to the idea of fairness vis a vis monopoly situations. A monopoly we need to do away with is money creation by the international bankster cabal, as I’m sure you’ll agree.
Penelope:
I could be dead wrong but I didn’t believe for a second that Putin made a deal with Erdogan based purely on economic benefits.
It could well be that some type of Syrian solution was looked into but is being kept under the table as a possible future bargaining chip against the US:
Sure enough it was in Turkeys interest to see Assad go because of the “planned” Qatar-Saudi-Syria-Turkey pipe. Maybe Russia’s pipe will suffice for now and Turkey will start to stutter on the Syrian/US operations.
All that would be needed is to give Erdogan face saving opportunities when the stance on Syria slowly starts to change. In my opinion there was a little hint of this in the conference.
I could be dreaming too ; )
The extent of delusion is staggering. Bulgaria now decides to be a gas EXPORTER.
“At a cabinet meeting on Wednesday ministers discussed options to turn Bulgaria into an key gas exporter.” Prime Minister Boyko Borisov said.
[This is based on 2 fields they own which nobody’s explored yet, as the didn’t get enough interest last time they asked for bids to do so].
“This is 100 percent diversification, unlike telling us whether to receive the gas via Turkey or Greece, or via Ukraine… We have set aside BGN 100 M for interconnections, but all the gas will be coming from there [Russia],” Borisov asserted, claiming there are “billions of cubic meters” of gas in the two blocks.”
Sure their are, Boyko, sure there are. They’ll all come out by themselves by next winter too.
http://www.novinite.com/articles/165187/Bulgarian+Gov%27t+to+Start+Tenders+on+Oil%2C+Gas+Exploration+and+Drilling#sthash.60e03k2s.dpuf
In another venue he said he hoped the sanctions had already played their role and relations will be soon normalised.
“I don’t know how Russia is affected by the sanctions, but Bulgaria is affected severely,” he said.
=========
Borisov has only been Prime Minister since October 2104, when his GERB party won 32% of the vote. They’re now in coalition with the Reformist block. The previous election was in May 2013 after Borisov was forced to resign and call early elections because of widespread (and violently put down) protests about poverty. The election had resulted in spread votes so nobody could form a successful coalition. One member of Borisov’s party was charged after 315,999 good “spare” ballot papers were found at a printing works associated with his party. He claimed the announcing of this, the day before the election, had cost him the votes he could have won by.
In true Maidan style, the minority government was in trouble right away, not least because of further protests, this time over their choice for head of the National Security Agency, an oligarch in whose mother’s name are most of the Bulgarian media. This, combined with the new Government being Socialist, was interpreted as a step towards taking Bulgaria out of the EU.
Starting just weeks after the elections and going on for almost a year, fresh scandals reigniting it on a regular basis. These protests were supposedly organised on Facebook. They have a very strong colour flavour. Bad loser Borisov may have been involved (later admitted having considered it but didn’t do it). Known GERB supporters were at stage accused of opposing other protesters and acting as provocateurs (sound familiar??). There were claims US interests were behind some of it, that protesters were being paid, and an anti-protester offer to form “volunteer patrols” to help the police deal with the protesters (sound familiar yet???_
heaps about it here ;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Bulgarian_protests_against_the_Oresharski_cabinet
The upshot was new elections where Borisov got 3$ more votes than last time, making him strong enough to form a coalition.
The figures are a mystery to me. Out of 7.2 million people how do they have 6.9 eligible to vote? they let them vote at age 10??? there are no babies being born, the population is dropping like a stone. People literally can’t afford to live.
STAVROS H. says, “we have been hearing about non-Russian pipelines reaching Europe for many years now, but nothing ever seems to actually get done.”
This may be part of the US plan to keep EU as a dependent vassal and not a competitor:
The whole global warming hoax is in aid of the US controlling development of emerging nations and competitors, via controlling all the oil/gas and all the pipelines.
There was a story in the press this morning that from now on it will be difficult to get investment capital for new drilling projects due to the effect on climate. I’m sorry I didn’t copy the reference. The comment came from an international banking group & I wd guess is the opening salvo for another technique to keep oil & gas development confined to the present players.
ANN, Turkey has been trying to get into EU forever, but I think was finally told “Membership is only open to Christian nations.” I guess it wasn’t said this baldly, but anyway Turkey had already given up on EU membership.
@ Bulgarian anon
natural monopolies should be in state hands…then it is totally fair if they let all ccmers use it. Of course with this craze for “private” ownership, everything has to be belong to big multinationals, the State only puts on one expensive regulation after the other, and the PEOPLE the State should be working for get shafted both ways.
Any law that forces someone to share what he built is not competition — it is a massive subsidy for the later entrants. Because I guarantee if Gazprom went along with it, EU would turn around and tell them how much they are allowed to charge the other users, too. The way this sort of issue is arranged in the REAL WORLD is, Gazprom builds the pipe. One of the conntries it rns through (or say someone at the far end in Caspian Sea) actually DOES fnd gas. Then they go to Gazprom and MAKE A DEAL how much for using the pipes.
In Australia, where I live, they “privatised” the electricity grid. Anyone who can get the permits may build a power station (usually something solar these days). I have to build the cables to get to the grid, and pay for use of the grid by how much I put on it. I then get retail customers, ordinary consumers, to buy from me. he actual electricity they get might have not one electron of the electricity my power station generated. Doesn’t matter because it is all the same…. so companies cannot compete on product differentiation anyway. We can compete only on price or service. I have modern efficient billing methods, use revenue well to manage my cashflows, keep friendly call centre and fast repairers, and make up “packages” that suit many people. So I end up getting more customers. I may end up selling a lot more than I produce, but I buy that from the others on the grid.
The government controls (by consultation)what the prices are for the consumers. Wholesale is then worked out for everyone to make a profit at that limited income level. BUT all this works because the grid is separately owned from the power producers.
When they “privatised” the landline phone system, they made the mistake of letting them own the lines plus sell to customers. There are monthly disputes and regular court cases that they are setting unfair bulk prices for other users of the network.
So, often a monopoly works out best. The Government itself is a monopoly. Can you offer to pay taxes to a competing Government? choose to contribute to the one that offers you better welfare? or better foreign policy??????
The big tragedy with Bulgaria letting the EU push them into blocking South Stream is, that in the name of competition, great harm has been done to all the countries that were part of it, that DID want it enough to stand up to EU about it. And what rightfully upset Russia about it was that this law was made AFTER the agreement, retrospectively. There is no business safety (nor personal safety either) in a place where something you do legally today can be turned illegal later.
Bulgarian anon, you need to get your country producing again. Without production, no income. No income, people leave, people don’t marry, people don’t have children. The way you are losing population now there will be no Bulgaria left in 150 years. There are abandoned empty ghost villages everywhere. Get out of the cities. Buy a dirt cheap village house. Grow your own food. LIVE. Feed yourselves, not the multinationals.
STAVROS H: Here’s the reference I was talking about re: banksters consolidating their chokehold on oil/gas & therefore development.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/fossil-fuel-investors-risk-being-stranded-by-tougher-climate-rules-20141202-11yvlh.html A major threat to fossil fuel companies has suddenly moved from the fringe to centre stage with a dramatic announcement by Germany’s biggest power company and an intriguing letter from the Bank of England.
A growing minority of investors and regulators are probing the possibility that untapped deposits of oil, gas and coal — valued at trillions of dollars globally — could become stranded assets as governments adopt stricter climate change policies. Former chief economist at the World Bank, said in an e-mail interview. “Investments in fossil fuels should be seen as a rather risky activity.” Institutions opting to divest now include Stanford University in California and The Rockefeller Brothers Fund, built with profits from Standard Oil .
“The world has changed when the Rockefeller family decides that they are going to divest from fossil fuels,” the UN’s top climate diplomat, Christiana Figueres, said Monday in Lima. 12/5/14
If Russia is kicked out of the SWIFT system, how will Germany pay for Russian gas? If there is no electronic transfer of money, then there must be physical transfer. If the Germans sent boxes of Euros to Moscow, what would the Russians do with them? These a Euros are only valuable if they can be used to pay for things, and that requires access to SWIFT. Without SWIFT the Russians would have to demand alternative payment methods, which may include gold.
Bulgaria and other orthodox countries have true cultural links with Russia (even though there are currently vassals of the West). Turkey and Turkish people hate Russia.
There cannot be an alliance with Turkey. Turkey is a NATO member and is threatening the nearby christian countries and the turkish elites have plans for a new ottoman empire. Of course, they plan to take parts of Greece, Bulgaria and even to increase influence in muslim caucasus.
At Anonymus 06 DECEMBER, 2014 01:36
Your analysis is pure bullshit. Assume that your car or truck can only be used by you or your family members … What a shame. Everyone should be be entitled to use it, right?
You know very well what the problem is. The usual culprits want to steal everything possible from Russia, and they use any pretence of law or democracy to justify their deed.
Cancelling South-Stream and moving to Turk stream only has advantagis for Russia: a) same volume of gas to another strategic partner
b) less investment necessary for the update of blue-stream
c) almost no stranded costs, due only a little change from the russian side
d) now never Turkey will accept LNG tankers crossing the Bosperus, so Ukraina will stay a “customer”
e) Europe will in case, Ukraina does not pay, pay for Ukrainians gas consumption :), assuring Russians income
f) transfer fees stay with Ukraina, which they mostly will spend for Russian coal, benzin, ….
for the EU I only see disadvantages
a) no energy security
b) no transfer security
c) no transfer fees for poor south-eastern contries, i.e. higher costs for central EU
d) higher cost for connecting to this gas-hub on the turkish/greece boarder; somebody has to cover gazproms share for
e) additional cost for paying ukrainians bills
f) there will be a pressure from the south to the north, due to north stream and energy security there
Maybe there is an advantage on the long run, whrer EU will develop new technologies for replacing gas, resp. substitute it with PV generated Methane (?)
Turkey is a big winner too.
I think the cancellation of South Stream is the only public and the less important output (owing to relatively distant future) of negotiations between Putin and Erdogan. It’s hardly more than loud slap to arrogant EU elities. There are much more actual issues for both gentlemen – Ukraine, Syria, Turkish support for ISIS, Turkish reaction to militarization of Crimea, Georgia, Armenia. Naturally, these outputs are not public. I also wonder what feelings about the “pact” are in Damascus and Teheran.
@Penelope: It is not climate change regulations that make these fossil fuel extraction projects risky, this is just the typical smoke screen to prevent acknowledging the means of the immanent demise of industrial civilization. Rather, it is too expensive to extract these deposits and so the investments will not be profitable. Forget about the “money” part, and think of it in terms of the energy return – at some point it simply takes too much energy compared to what you get to make it worthwhile, and this will happen before you get to 1:1. This is what peak oil/gas/coal looks like.
Russia is the only one that has not completely peaked, and it is why they are the target. The EU are fools to cut themselves off from the last remaining viable energy stream (although that is temporary too), SA cannot keep it up and the US has just accelerated the collapse of the fracking bubble. This is a battle for survival of civilizations and peak FF is what is driving it.
These times and events are among the pivotal in the history of collapsing civilizations. It is frankly breathtaking to have such a real-time view of it through the Internet – a one-time opportunity.
Very interesting program and discussion.
I am not favorablely impressed, however, with the way Lavelle quite rudely interrupted the German fellow, who was saying something interesting, to cut to the Greek fellow, who seemed like a deer caught in the headlights and couldn’t immediately think of anything to say.
The GErman fellow was quite right to roll his eyes at this pointless rudeness of Lavelle’s.
The German’s English not quite so smooth or speedy as Mercouris’s, but he (the German) obviously is very knowledgeable and he had not finished presenting his ideas. I am glad he pushed back the second time Lavelle interrupted him in midsentence.
Katherine
@Marko who said
If Russia is kicked out of the SWIFT system, how will Germany pay for Russian gas? If there is no electronic transfer of money….
This is why Russia (and the BRICS countries) are setting up their own electronic settlement system. And then they might not take Euros.
But they won’t kick Russia out, at least for now, because too many too big companies wold not be able to get their money from Russia…they still do big business there. Once the new system is going,they could kick Russia out…but then that forces them to use the news system if they have any dealing with Russia…or India or China or Brazil etc….if the want a chance to take the profit off at least SOME transactions they have to leave all these in SWIFT.
==================
@ Miroslav
it may be years before Turk Stream happens. If at all. A lot can happen between. But the important thing is, it changes the power associations in the area.Just buying ordinary stuff is different from a huge permanent joint venture. Putin can talk differently about Syria if he and Turkey now have a common interest in peace there, for example. Turkey has a hue population, they are young,they will keep growing. And there is big unemployment. He needs a way to get out of war, without losing face, and something solid to start improving the job opportunities.
Unlike one anonymous above, I don’t believe he is trying to build an empire. A lot of population is hard to manage, without having to manage extra territory and new minority populations as well. If he can be led to improving life for the people he has now, on the land he has now, he’ll be very happy. Now if he and Russia have big business together,he’ll not worry about Crimea either, militarisation there now is protecting HIS business interest as well. .
For Europe, it is not the elites Putin wants to smack. He is trying to slap some sense into the poorer countries, to wake up and stand up for themselves.
Kind of funny listening to the Europeans saying South Stream “ain’t” dead yet. It is dead. As Alexander said – the time to speak up against the USSA corrupt EU was a lot earlier.
By Anonymous [01:36] “The principles of competition above apply to oil and gas pipe lines.
South Stream was designed to carry gas ONLY from Gazprom with is a state owned gas monopoly.
This means that potential gas coming from Caspian, Iran, the Middle East etc would be excluded. This would also exclude gas potentially developed by Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia themselves (if they were that stupid to start fracking).
That in itself allows for Gazprom to extend its monopoly.
For the obvious reasons of competition South Stream was violating not just “Energy pact 3 or smth) but the basic principle of European trade.
Period. […]”
Is that a quote by someone else or those are your thoughts? I cannot tell. But do pray tell, why the Russians have to build and finance a pipeline that then will be open to be used by third parties, presumably free of charge on top of everything else? Unless it’s a joint venture where all the interested parties are contributing financially towards the project, or Gazprom is able to charge fees to third party users for using their pipeline, the monopoly argument doesn’t wash. Otherwise it just becomes a case of; let’s just use Russian stuff for free, pretty much like Ukrainian oligarchs have been doing by siphoning Russian gas off their pipelines in the not so distant past.
Second, the Third Energy Package clause was added after the contract/agreement was signed, as Mercouris pointed out in this program and in one of his latest articles posted here at the Saker’s blog. Being a lawyer, Mercouris knows that you can’t just add random new conditions to an existing and already signed contract.
–
By Stavros H: “Very interesting talk on RT right there. Alexander Mercouris is telling it like it is, while the German guy and the Greek seem to persist in Euroland mythology.”
LoL! I know! They both look so lost in the woods that is not even funny (I’m excluding Alexander of course, the guy is a legend!)
It’s dismaying to think that these people make a living out of being completely clueless. Can I get a job like that? Not having the foggiest idea of what I’m talking about, yet being paid handsomely for it?
Any takers ;-)
-TL2Q
@ Penelope
I agree with you that this entire craze over global warming is a new kind of “racism” to keep the former colonies down in all respects. Even if there is some scientific merit in the argument, I completely fail to see how this justifies imposing draconian restrictions on poor nations’ ability to industrialize etc while western nations have been exploiting and polluting the planet for centuries. Even if some degree of global warming does indeed take place it could be easily dealt with if poor countries become more powerful economically so that they could complete the necessary public works to protect them from the alleged effects of global warming.
As for the issue of the persistent talk and publicity over alleged non-Russian pipelines reaching Europe, I am almost 100% convinced that the Anglo-Zionists are behind it. It serves as a scare tactic and maskarovka so that Russia can be bargained down and blackmailed over energy and other issues. I think that the Russians though have started to more and more see through this cynical bluffing on the part of the Empire and are now playing hardball. This may be an added reason (among several) that spurred the AZ empire in their latest war against Russia.
Just to briefly mention some bluffing on the part of the Empire of alleged pipelines:
1) Nabucco
2) Trans-Caspian or some BS like that
3) Poland supposedly was to become a shale gas powerhouse. Utter BS.
4) Same was said of Romania
5) Cyprus/Greece/Israel. Even more smoke and mirrors in my opinion.
6) Lithuania building an LNG station
7) Alleged unlimited supply of US shale gas etc…
I am sure there much more examples that I am missing. The AZs also fail to ever really emphasize that Norwegian, North Sea and Dutch gas production is on a downward and irreversible decline.
Re
the German guy and the Greek seem to persist in Euroland mythology.”
LoL! I know! They both look so lost in the woods that is not even funny
I don’t think the GErman guy looked “lost in the woods.” He made good points. As one who recalled and spoke of good German-Soviet trade relations he called attention to the impracticality and ideological bent of much that has happened since, mainly, the Third Energy Package and the importance of trust also in business dealings. Many people comprehend about zero about the relationship of the current Gazprom to the Soviet Gazprom—more continuity than not. He showed that he actually knows where some of the big gas fields and Russian emphasis now lie— Shtokman field etc. in the Arctic and infrastructure to sell this nearby gas to Europe. He presents himself as one who values the earlier trust, understands the whole trust issue, and lays the blame for the loss of trust squarely with the EC. People like him may be potential counterparties in future German-Russian gas trade. He is in a sense holding a door open, keeping a door open, and unles you can predict the future, that is not a bad idea. That gas is very close to Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, all of whom, per ITAR-TASS, are 100% dependent on Russian gas:
http://itar-tass.com/en/infographics/7208
See the pipelines:
http://www.eegas.com/fsu.htm
People like this German are ones who may be able to craft face-saving ways for the EC to undo some of the nonsense. Another point to bear in mind is that, I am quite sure, the Third Energy Package was a response to Russia’s response to Ukrainian gas shenanigans in 2006 and 2009 and steps Russia took to deal with Ukrainian politicians then in power.
Katherine
Interesting crosstalk, the pipeline machinations are always interesting
Penelope ( I think?) “The whole global warming hoax is in aid of the US controlling development of emerging nations and competitors, via controlling all the oil/gas and all the pipelines”
The entire anthropogenic warming hoax is bigger then that- Much bigger
Regarding stranded investors?
Much hand wringing distraction but look what the big players say
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/fossil-fuel-investors-risk-being-stranded-by-tougher-climate-rules-20141202-11yvlh.html
No one is concerned-
“Energy majors such as Exxon Mobil, Chevron, Royal Dutch Shell and Glencore say they’re not concerned about stranded assets because demand is growing, and fossil fuels will be the only way to satisfy those needs cheaply and reliably for decades to come”
Hence, no one is worried
Any move to ‘green’ are simply to take advantage of big, big generous taxpayer funding (which should not be happening) for profit and serves to drive up the prices of energy for all
It’s win/win
Carbon has been “restricted” allegedly via trade in the EU for years now and the outcome, no decrease in carbon emissions.
Meanwhile carbon emissions grow and AGW pauses for nearly 20 years now..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2740788/Global-warming-pause-19-years-Data-reveals-Earth-s-temperature-remained-CONSTANT-1995.html
And could stay cool for years to come
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/climatechange/11049540/Global-warming-pause-may-last-for-another-decade-scientists-suggest.html
But not because the oceans ‘hide warming’ that’s just silly
I wonder why it is that restricting carbon is not understood by carbon based lifeforms( humans) as restricting life…?
http://www.geek.com/science/geek-answers-why-is-all-life-carbon-based-1572567/
“And why is carbon the basis of all life currently known?
Basically, the answer is that life is complex, and more to the point that it must be complex. You can’t create an organism capable of regulating its internal state, of moving, eating and excreting, and of replicating itself to create offspring, without a wide variety of molecules. You’re going to need a central building block that can support complex branched structures while remaining strong — but not so strong that you can’t easily rearrange the whole thing later. There’s also the fact that carbon happens to be an abundant element on Earth, one available to early replicators, but for the most part we are carbon-based because carbon makes a good backbone”
Restricting carbon is restricting life itself.
As long as the Useless Nations and the even more useless IPCC deny the role of the sun, they can’t be taken seriously at all
btw: for persons interested in the latest vaccine scandal… yet another flu vaccine scam
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2014/12/problem-flu-vaccine-not-effect-solution.html
thought I would share
And Saker, excellent Crosstalk!
did you hear this little interview with Stephen Cohen regarding Ukraine
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2014/12/stephen-cohen-united-ukraine-is-really.html
I am wondering how this plays into NATO membership?
About alternative energy sources…is everyone aware of the amount of bird 9migratory) flocks that get killed every day by those horrible windmills ? Is causing bird populations to decrease faster than anything else. I hope the oil companies don’t start building more of those things…
You know, this bashing Germany and Europe that’s going on on this thread is racism. The people of no countries deserve what the politicians are dishing out. Now Putin has to deal with that sleazeball Ergodan…who’s helping ISIS. And I’m not saying that ISIS isn’t something that is also a symptom of politics. But even so, Ergodan is not Germany…and Germany is a great, great country, if she could only get her politician(s) under her control. Same as America.
Anonymous @15:11 says, “This is what peak oil/gas/coal looks like.
Russia is the only one that has not completely peaked, and it is why they are the target.”
Anonymous, Peak oil is a hoax designed originally to support the price, also as an excuse for war.
As Wm Engdahl says, oil/gas are renewable resources– natural products of the earth’s core. We are running into oil, not out of it. The known untapped reserves are in fabulous quantities. They include Iran’s South Pars, Qatars North Pars, the Caspian , the Mediterranean off Greece, off Gaza, and others.
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/Geopolitics___Eurasia/Peak_Oil___Russia/peak_oil___russia.html
http://www.larsschall.com/2013/07/17/lars-schall-interviews-f-william-engdahl-on-finance-geopolitics-and-oil/ This is a long video interview. The part you want is the third video screen down @9:30. You will hear some surprising things about Russian scientists re oil.
@ Stavros H said
Well said. However, you cleverly omitted or failed to mention the South Stream was agreed long before Brussels or EU implementing the rule.
Anyway, you Bulgarian will pay the price for shooting your own foot. There will be many cold winters. Good luck to you and all McCain’s lapdog!
Stavros H: I think they’re bluffing about their willingness to invest and build the pipelines. EU doesn’t have the money. Qatar can’t get Syria to let them build the pipeline ontheir territory cuz Syria wants the Iran-Iraq-Syria and on to Europe, which neither Qatar, Saudis nor US will permit.
I think there’s plenty of gas though. Although Fracking is a ponzi scheme. Wm Engdahl has several articles pointing out that in the US they’ve spent more on fracking than they got for their product (and that was BEFORE the price reduction. Only reason they kept fracking: free money from QE.
Stavros H: Re: Global warming. The temperature has increased less than one degree F in an entire century. There are oscillations of temperature approx every 30 years– warming, cooling, warming. Has to do w the sunspot cycle, Pacific Decadal Oscillation, etc.
The science is pretty interesting.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-cooling-is-here/10783
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LkMweOVOOI This is a hearing; the Q&A the most interesting part, where he explains how the hoaxsters got their numbers.
Big money continues to be behind this hoax, but they are getting it all back & then some in govt ‘green’ expenditure. And just think how many activists they are distracting into an area totally harmless to themselves.
ANN: Yeah, I agree: It’s not the people of the govts that are the villains– just a bankster/political elite who control the media & occupy the levers of power.
To escape for awhile into a lovelier world:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNwAC1vV38Y
Antarctica near record levels of ice. Arctic a lil under the average. The Northwest Passage between the Pacific and Atlantic remained frozen all last summer.
Remember the scientific crew who had to be helicoptered off a ship stranded in the ice last Christmas? They were there to document the melting! LOL
The ice core record shows that CO2 FOLLOWS periods of warming– cuz cold water holds more CO@, so when it warms . . . .
Penny: The tightening up on credit to develop new oil & gas is not to do damage to the big boys: They’ve got plenty of dough. It’s to exclude new entrants, control supply.
No offense intended Ann, but “if she could only get her politician(s) under her control. Same as America” sounds more and more like a pipe dream. Germany is occupied territory, and had been for almost fifty years. Short of a civil war, I don’t think anything is going to change in Germany or America.
There will be no civil war at least in the US. The government has too much control over the people with the militarization of the police and the spying on all of us. Also censoring of different viewpoints even on Facebook. Our only hope lies with President Putin and his allies destroying the NWO hegemony.
@Germany is a great, great country, if she could only get her politician(s) under her control. Same as America.
But they don’t seem to get it, do they?
Turkey could be a business partner to Russia, nothing more nothing less. Turkey’s military is completely dependent on USA and Turkey is a member state of NATO and a vassal of USA (despite some of the rhetoric of the Turkish elites against Israel etc).
Turkish strategic interests are opposite to the Russian strategic interests in middle east (Syria ,Iran, caucasus etc ).
In reality, Russia is alone.
Even China and Brics are not Russian alllies (like the Warsaw Pact alliance). They are merely business and trade partners. BRics (with the exception of Russia) have limited sovereignty and power to stand up against NWO.
Russia is now facing an economic warfare.
The only solution is to disconnect from globalization and to build an alternative economic system and power bloc.
@ Katherine:
“I don’t think the GErman guy looked “lost in the woods.” He made good points. As one who recalled and spoke of good German-Soviet trade relations […] Many people comprehend about zero about the relationship of the current Gazprom to the Soviet Gazprom—more continuity than not.”
Fair enough, but the thing is that neither of them said anything that haven’t been said in Cross Talk like a million times already, and this program wasn’t really about the history of Gazprom, it was about the surprise deal with Turkey and all its potential geopolitical implications. Regarding the main topic; they had no idea what to say.
On the other hand, you have people like Mike Whitney, that do understand the subject matter and are not interested in face-saving exercises either:
Putin Gobsmacks Obama and Euro-Leaders with Surprise Gas Deal
[Excerpts]
“While the media is characterizing the change in plans (Putin has abandoned the South Stream pipeline project that would have transported gas to southern Europe) as a “diplomatic defeat” for Russia, the opposite appears to be the case. Putin has once again outmaneuvered the US on both the energy and geopolitical fronts adding to his long list of policy triumphs.”
“Korybko seems to be alone in grasping the magnitude of what happened in Ankara on Monday, although –judging by the Obama administration’s silence on the topic–the gravity of the transaction is beginning to sink in. Grandmaster Vlad’s latest move has caught US powerbrokers flat-footed and left them speechless. This is a scenario that no one had anticipated and, if it’s not handled correctly, could turn out to be a real nightmare.”
“But why the silence? Why hasn’t the White House issued a statement about the big Russian-Turkey gas deal that everyone’s talking about?
I’ll tell you why. It’s because they don’t know what the hell just hit them, that’s why. They were completely blindsided by the announcement and can’t quite figure out what it means for the issues that are on the very top of their foreign policy agenda, like the pivot to Asia, or the wars in Syria and Ukraine, or the much-ballyhooed gas pipeline from Qatar to the EU, that was supposed to transit– you guessed it– Turkey. Is that plan still in the works or has the Putin-Erdogan alliance put the kibosh on that gem too? Let’s face it, Putin has really knocked it out of the park this time. Team Obama is clearly out of its league and has no idea of what’s going on. If Turkey turns eastward and joins the growing Russian bloc, US policymakers are going to have to scrap the better part of their strategic plans for the coming century and go back to Square 1. What a headache.[…]”
Far more at the LINK> http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40391.htm
^ That’s the type of analysis I wanna hear, not some aimless ramblings about leaving the EU door ajar for Gazprom.
Also, for further background on the subject, I’d encourage everybody to read another article by Whitney:
Ukraine War Driven by Gas-Dollar Link – Defending Dollar Imperialism
LINK> http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40357.htm
.
-TL2Q
South Stream IS ON but a bit differently
Guys, guys…. Turk Stream goes ONLY TO THE BORDER with Greece, with a HUB.
The hub ends up in THIN AIR unless the fools in Europe get together and BUILD SOUTH STREAM.
They’ll just have to pay for all of it themselves, that’s all.
Gazprom boss Alex Miller quite plainly explained this when he said there is a new sales system for Europe… they will have to buy at the border.
“Love cannot be forced,” Miller said. “If a customer doesn’t want doorstep delivery, then he apparently has to put on clothes and go shopping, and if it is winter time – he’ll have to bundle up and go out for any package he wants,” Miller said, adding that in the case of the EU “it could as well be the Third Energy Package”.
“Shopping will now be done at the tie-in facility,” which will be the trading platform on the Turkish-Greek border, indicated Miller. Unlike the South Stream, the new project does not fall under the EU’s Third Energy Package.
http://rt.com/business/212095-gazprom-eu-turkey-setup/
Then it will be up to the to work out who pays who for what transit fees, too.
Plus it leaves all of Europe depending on TURKEY instead of Ukraine. I do not think that is much of an improvement.
Putin held phone conversations with Hungary and Serbia, not much detail of interest published. Guess he’ll talk privately to all those who wanted SS, Bulgaria maybe not.
TooLegit2Quit said…
@ Katherine:
“I don’t think the GErman guy looked “lost in the woods.” . . .
Fair enough, but the thing is that neither of them said anything that haven’t been said in Cross Talk like a million times already, and this program wasn’t really about the history of Gazprom, it was about the surprise deal with Turkey and all its potential geopolitical implications. Regarding the main topic; they had no idea what to say.
We both watched the same show. I’ll restate once: I disagree that the German “had no idea what to say.” We all know what the show was about, and IMO the German’s comment were relevant to the discussion. “a million times already”—is pointless hyperbole. Time to move on.
Katherine
Mogherini is in Turkey to fix it for the EU.
Hopefully she has no Syria deal for Erdogan. This might change his mind.
Penelope !
thanks for the link…very sweet..American I guess.
Wiz oz
” WizOz said…
@Germany is a great, great country, if she could only get her politician(s) under her control. Same as America.
But they don’t seem to get it, do they?”
And we do ?????
Petitions just don’t seem to be enough control….
Nuland’s regime change in action in Hungary.