Commentary:First, I have to admit that I could not bring myself to watch this show to the end. Listening to Mary Dejevsky spew her arrogant certitudes about the Ukraine gave me a stomach ache and I had to stop. What I do want to draw your attention to, however, is the idea which seems to have been somehow accepted by by Mary Dejevsky and Ray McGovern: that the EU and the US would never accept anything short of a united Ukraine, albeit maybe a federated one, and that Russia had accepted this reality.
This is an interesting logic here.
What is the reality we are talking about here? The only “reality” is the one of the phenomenal imperial hubris and stubbornness of the US and EU leaders. Let’s even add to this, for conversation’s sake, that Putin has decided to yield to the terms of these AngloZionist and that the Kremlin has also come to terms, if you wish, that a unitary Ukraine is the only possible outcome.
So what?
Does that really mean that the will of the 7 million people of the eastern Ukraine counts for nothing at all and that they will just have to accept that? Is there not another “real reality” which is that the people of the Donbass do not want to live under the rule of a Nazi regime composed of bloodthirsty freaks who do not even bother to hide their genocidal hatred for them?! How crazy is that?
Why is it that only Mark Sleboda brought up the opinion of these people?
Are we really living in a world whose only message to those who want to live in peace on their own land and in their own culture is “fuck you! you will henceforth live under Nazi rule and don’t you dare resist!“?
Nevermind that the right of self-determination is enshrined in all the most sacred documents of international law. Nevermind that the West is supposedly fiercely anti-Nazi. And nevermind that nobody is denying that the junta in Kiev came to power in an illegal armed insurrection. Somebody naive would have expected the entire international community, lead by the “democratic West” and the “Leader of the Free World and Indispensable Nation” aka the US, to absolutely condemn the Nazi regime in Kiev and given its fullest support to the freedom loving people of Novorussia. But no. Not at all. The exact opposite happened.
What is at work he is the centuries old European racism who has always considered that it had the God given right to dispose of our planet in any way it wants and that the will of the rest of mankind is simply irrelevant (just remember the Treaty of Tordesillas). From the Crusades to today’s Nazi occupation of the Ukraine, deception and terror have always been the two pillars of Western “foreign policy”. As for negotiations and lofty principles, they are only what I would call “ancillary tools” which can be used if and when needed to speed things up, or to provide enough time to prepare for a resumption of deception and terror.
What is pretty darn clear is that the kind of future the West wants to “offer” the people of Novorussia is the same one which was offered the Native Americans or the Palestinians: “shut up and stay quiet until you all die“.
I have been told many times that I should not wear my heart on my sleeve and that showing emotions is inappropriate on a blog. If so, then I have to apologize because I think that not showing emotions in these circumstances is a sure sign of zombification. And my emotions are a dense mix of horror, disgust, despair, hope, determination, rage, sadness, contempt, amazement, fear, faith and a huge desire to scream at the top of my lungs to denounce the infinite hypocrisy of a society which does not even pretend to stand for the values it supposedly holds for sacred. How could I not feel all these emotions when I see that what is calmly discussed is basically the imposition of a regime of terror and constant persecution on millions of completely innocent people?
And then I also really wonder about folks like Mary Dejevsky: do they really believe that the people of the Donbass will ever accept this “reality”? Don’t they realize that the imposition of such a regime on Novorussia will mean one of two options to the local people: resistance or emigration.
But maybe that was the plan all along: to ethnically cleanse Novorussia from its population and turn it into a Lebensraum for west Ukrainian Nazis?
I am disgusted beyond words with the world I live in and I will never accept it, and I will always resist it. Because I have emotions.
The Saker
Interview with Scott Noble on the three part documentary “Counter Intelligence”. The documentary deals with false flags, black and white propaganda and the motives behind and beneficiaries of these operations:
pt I:
Plausible deniability is also used by people within intelligence agencies, going right down the line to the contractors and sub-contractors. We can see it today with mercenary organizations like Blackwater/Academi, which are closely affiliated with CIA, but are portrayed as “independent.”
In effect, everyone is trying to create a disjuncture between the initial order and the operation. We get the impression from Hollywood that CIA officers have 9th degree black belts and go around killing people with their bare hands a la Jason Bourne. That’s not how it works. Excepting a small number of individuals like Dan Mitrione (a sadist who gave live torture demonstrations to military officials in Uruguay during the Cold War) intelligence officers try very hard not to get their hands dirty. They are happy to partner with the most despicable people on Earth – drug kingpins, fascists, death squads etc., but as Stockwell put it, it’s “a civilized kind of relationship.”
Counter Intelligence: Spying Deters Democracy – Dissident Voice
pt II:
A more elaborate form of false flag is when a group made up of intelligence assets poses as the enemy and commits an atrocity or series of atrocities. These groups are described in the military literature as “pseudo teams” (see for example Lawerence E. Cline, “Pseudo Operations and Counterinsurgency”). Cline justifies the use of pseudo teams due to their utility in intelligence gathering, but they can also be used for more nefarious purposes. During France’s brutal occupation of Algeria, French intelligence created a pseudo-team called the “Organization of the French Algerian Resistance” whose mission was to carry out terrorist attacks with the aim of “quashing any hopes of political compromise.”
At the other end of the spectrum are acts of provocation. An informant working for an intelligence agency or the police will infiltrate an “enemy” group and encourage members to carry out destructive actions. The patsies are usually overzealous, immature, easily influenced, cash-strapped or mentally ill. After the contrived plot is foiled, the “protector” agency holds a press conference to congratulate themselves and justify their bloated budgets/state policy.
Counter Intelligence: Beyond The Deep State – Dissident Voice
Scott Noble’s documentary Counter Intelligence can be watched in its entirety on Vimeo. If time is a constraint, I recommend to right jump to part three and watch the other two at another time:
Counter intelligence pt. I: the company – Vimeo
Counter intelligence pt. II: the deep state – Vimeo
Counter intelligence pt. III: the strategy of tension – Vimeo
I spotted two minor errors in the third part, just in case someone wants to write a transcript:
1. Mohammed Mossadegh was toppled in 1953, not 1951
2. The bomb attack at the central station in Bologna was in 1980, not 1969.
Overall, the documentary seems consistent with what I know about this theme complex from independent sources, which base their conclusions on existing evidence like declassified documents.
Б.
‘Drones’ is an emerging issue in the western public media on Ukraine, being mentioned over and over. The Novorossia guerilla must prepare counter-defense and drone offense strategies if possible.
Kiev may use this strategy in an attempt to take out self-defense commands in Donetsk and Lugansk while simultaneously cutting off the border.
CIA ‘anti-terrorist’ strategy . . .
July 8, 2014 Russia, Ukraine, and Afghanistan NATO Secretary Anders Fogh Rasmussen spoke to reporters following a meeting with President Obama at the White House. He said Russia could face deeper sanctions if it continued to destabilize the region. He also spoke about how allegations of election fraud in Afghanistan could affect NATO’s presence there if security agreements were not signed before the NATO Summit in September 2014
Dear Saker, to me, your emotions are a part of this blog, an important part. I feel those same emotions and I’m sure many others do as well.
“…however, you have a government in Ukraine that is killing its own people.” Moderator
That’s the essence of the conflict in terms of explaining it. There is no “deep state” operating in the U.S. engineering this in an intelligent fashion. The state is owned by the patrons of the elected officials. It operates at their will and does so poorly. Look at the record. Failure everywhere – Libya, Syria, Iraq, and now Ukraine. They can’t execute beyond the initial trashing of a nation. The inference of a deliberate “chaos strategy” is logical since that’s the consistent outcome. However, the administration would vastly prefer an efficient puppet state to what they end up with.
The stupidity repeated over and over is now in operation in Ukraine. The net effect is ethnic cleansing because the only option to preserve the initial “win” (the coup government) is to “attack its own citizens.”
The public in Europe and the U.S. is not falling for the storyline of the insane faction of the War Party. The only two options are military action against real human beings or sanctions that will plunge Europe into a depression.
The people in charge of this, calling the shots, are simply too stupid to work their way out of this crisis. Hence, the perpetuation of a monstrous series of actions that have no hope for success.
McGovern mentioned the only positive on the horizon – excluding Kerry from negotiations.
Ultimately, military events will determine the course of current policy. If there’s an undeniable win against Ukraine’s army, if there’s a mutiny by Ukraine forces, if one of the oligarchs with a private army is arrested by his own men – any of these would allow an ignominious but rapid retreat by Obama’s crazy patrons.
It is difficult managing the delusional, particularly when they’re stupid. The people behind this are both.
“Never again!”: for me, but not for thee.
Don’t worry.. Volodiya IS coming
-Canada
While I vacillate a bit on direct Russian involvement the US is not backing off the provocations and feel that indeed Russia will have to choose sooner rather than later – make a deal with the oligarchs and throw the militia under the bus or provide a good deal more support relatively soon. While Lavrov (and Putin) has been insisting that negotiations must include militia leaders and the defacto governments of DPR and LPR Kiev has insisted again that these people are terrorists and refused. As the war will continue I can’t see fence sitting will remain a viable option much longer.
Most everyone here wants someone to finally stand up to the bully in the room and seriously bloody his nose. Listened to Israeli justification for their latest exercise in civilian punishment and had the same feeling.
I’m thankful your hearts NOT zombified! Blessings!
“That’s the essence of the conflict in terms of explaining it. There is no “deep state” operating in the U.S. engineering this in an intelligent fashion. The state is owned by the patrons of the elected officials. It operates at their will and does so poorly. Look at the record. Failure everywhere – Libya, Syria, Iraq, and now Ukraine. They can’t execute beyond the initial trashing of a nation. The inference of a deliberate “chaos strategy” is logical since that’s the consistent outcome. However, the administration would vastly prefer an efficient puppet state to what they end up with.”
Really? So Vice-President Biden and the CIA director’s visit to Ukraine right before a new wave of violence was unleashed was just circumstantial?
I think you must have mistaken what the realy ploy here is. The US is stoking the conflict in Ukraine for the main purpose of dragging Russia into the conflict. Everything else is secondary.
I also believe that there is a shadow government or shadow factions if you will, in the US government driving these kinds of agendas. I dont believe that its necessarily Obama directing this horror show, but he is the overall commander and is inherently responsible for everything the US government does.
I’m not so sure there is a “good cop, bad cop” play in the works here by the EU and the US. The EU dependence on Russian energy is real and deep. They can -NOT- afford to loose access to Russian energy. On top of that comes all the other business relations with Russia. The EU will have too much to loose and what we see at work is Russia playing the EU to their side for an intervention at some point. The US needs to force the PUkes to crank up the brutality to force Putin’s hand. But doing so will distance the EU from the US along with it.
I think the end result here is that the US looses….BIGTIME. Lets not forget that the Russians also has a lot of intelligence dirt on US/EU relations. I’m not so sure that the US-spy revelations in Germany is entirely discovered by the Germans alone. If Russia has dirt on US/EU relations, you can bet that it will be put on the table now.
Norwegian Bob
Maybe Russia’s Alexander Dugin is right, and Putin’s own head may roll at the Kremlin … Ultimately all that blood in Novorossiya is on his hands.
Yes, Putin did tell them to hold off on the referendum … but he also recommended a referendum, and said he would protect Russians near to the homeland … If he wanted to stop the referendum after those promises, he should have given them a clear warning that he would abandon them (like he has done), if the referendum took place without his approval.
It’s said that some time ago, China threatened the US, successfully, with a potential market dump of its trillion-plus in US Treasury bonds, which would collapse the US dollar. The end of US purchases would also severely damage China’s economy, as the US reminded China. ‘Try me’, was China’s brave answer. China has said it is willing to risk 600 million dead in a nuclear war which would leave the USA a smoking ruin, but China still standing.
That’s the attitude Putin should have taken.
“They can’t execute beyond the initial trashing of a nation.”
Trashing a nation is all they have to do.
The nation state is the only political structure able to stand up to the oligarch-run New World Ordure. That is why the US Government is trashing America as a Euro-American nation state. (Not only is the European birthrate exceeded in many US states by that of Third-World immigrants, but it is now exceeded nationally by the European death rate.)
Once America and every other powerful Western nation has been racially and culturally mongrelized, the nation states will disappear, to be subjugated to undemocratic international entities such as the UN, the EU, the WTO, NATO, NAFTA, etc.
Russia and China are the major impediments to this project for plutocratic world domination. They have to be destroyed. As this cannot be achieved by subversion from within, as has happened to the European states, they will have to be smashed from without. Ukraine is the tinder to launch the war to destroy Russia.
Saker, I understand and sympathize with your anger and disillusionment. You are facing the destruction of two illusions and I shared the one about the good people of Novorossiya deserving to decide their own future. Without massive material assistance from someone that was a dream that has turned into a nightmare.
The other illusion that is dissolving is that the Russian Ruling Class, including Putin, is somehow, at the root, different from the Ruling Class in the US or Europe. They are Capitalists one and all and the Peoples Republics were showing Socialist tendencies that could not be tolerated by those in power in Moscow or Washington.
“The pieces fit”
http://www.rebelion.org/imagenes/p_09_07_2014.jpg
@ Michael Collins: Ummmmm… “It is difficult managing the delusional, particularly when they’re stupid. The people behind this are both.” I disagree. They are neither disillusioned nor stupid. They ARE venal and wicked. And to call them stupid gives them an alibi. Let’s not help them avoid the whirlwind that’s coming. Shall we.
To Saker. All the emotions you express are felt amongst most of your admirers and readers. We just don’t write them as much — or as eloquently perhaps. Yesterday I was shouting obscenities at the radio show who’s host was genuflecting for poor Israel having to bomb, bomb, bomb Gaza. Pity the poor Zionists. Such a struggle for them. No shopping. No clubs. No sipping lattes by the seaside. Dear me. Poor, defenseless Israelis. Sigh. Had to turn it off. Just like you did to Mary. Poof-poof. Be gone.
Methinks the elites are protesting too much. Like its all unraveling MUCH faster than expected. Tick-tock.
@Michael Collins – I tend to agree we can overestimate the coherency of the ‘deep state’, but we can’t deny it exists. There are covert plans and ambitions at work controlling policy and there always have been. They aren’t often sane, or always consistent or successful. But they are there.
In Ukraine there is a collision of ‘deep’ plans going on. The longterm Wolfowitz/Brzezinski/Bush ‘plan’ (such as it was, never very cogent) to prevent Russia from reasserting itself as a global power, the search for new enemies to justify perpetual war since the WOT is getting old, and plain old-fashioned revenge against Russia for daring to thwart the US bid to launch a war against Syria.
Add to this chaotic brew a good dose of insane neocon ideology about crusades against evil empires (the maddest neocons refuse to believe Russia isn’t still the Soviet Union), and we have plenty of ‘depth’ and subtext, even if not much of it is rational.
The bad news is that this collision of interests and ideologies is taking us on a course of confrontation, and maybe direct war, with Russia, and maybe China too. There has always been a collection of lunatics at the heart of the US establishment for which this has been a kind of ultimate goal, or at least a viable risk in the struggle for world dominion. Currently they seem to have grabbed the controls and are steering us all onto the rocks.
Ukraine is part of this mad bid for global domination through conflagration. The present nightmare in the Middle east is probably another part of the same.
A Ukrainian site is posting images and information on ‘pro russian’ sympathizers:
In other news ITAR-TASS reports:
Russia cuts short Afghan heroin route to Siberia
“….In Afghanistan production of narcotics is skyrocketing, with a 400% increase in the past ten years, the FSKN says. Year on year, up to 90% of of the global supply of opiates are fabricated there, constituting 150 billion single doses.
Thus, drugs production has surged drastically after the NATO international contingent was deployed in Afghanistan in 2001.
In April 2014, the Russian anti-drugs chief, Viktor Ivanov, said: “Today the world and Russia are inheriting the global-scale production of narcotics nurtured by NATO and the United States.”
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/739792
Think I forgot to post the link: – http://zrada.in.ua Language is Ukrainian.
I think you must have mistaken what the realy ploy here is. The US is stoking the conflict in Ukraine for the main purpose of dragging Russia into the conflict. Everything else is secondary.
———————————-
The US is stoking the conflict in Ukraine for the main purpose of isolating, destabilizing and breaking up Russia [to wipe off the map ] and creating UNIPOLAR world.
The British have been doing this since the Crimea War, USA since 1918 and NATO since 1949
Spaniard
I’m not so sure that the US-spy revelations in Germany is entirely discovered by the Germans alone. If Russia has dirt ..]
probably not since one of the spies caught was trying to dabble with the Russian intel services…
if thats isn’t a hint.
Well, you said it Saker–extreme ethnic cleansing for lebensraum. You have thought and said the unthinkable, but this card is in the hand that Poroshenko, a “transitional” figurehead according to these jokers, is about to TRY to play. The Russians picked up the pilot who killed the Russian film crew according to the BBC. Yes, humanize the people of Donbass and hold those who do war crimes responsible and publicize their trials, turn a few over the the international court–do whatever needs done to publicize the crimes. And to hold the world to agreed upon norms of civilized warfare. After all the US claims a right to pick up anyone they deem a terrorist anywhere in the world, but then we never hear from them again or they kill them. By the way, Lavrov rocks!
” Are we really living in a world whose only message to those who want to live in peace on their own land and in their own culture is “fuck you! you will henceforth live under Nazi rule and don’t you dare resist!”?
In an word, yes. I always criticize the pro US pro EU narrative when its focused solely on “Putin”. I guess the anti-fascist, anti-regime people need the same criticism – We cannot single out V. Putin as a monster or a savior. Putin WILL ABOSLUTELY FOLLOW THE LOGIC AND THE DIKTATS OF “THE MARKETS” in the end. To hope otherwise is to put ones hope in the same forces which are committing these terrible crimes across the world every day and calling it “policy” “trade” and “government” – in their word “reality” , AND, the “only one possible”… The RESISTANCE OF THE PEOPLE OF DONBAS HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE SOMETHING BIGGER AND BETTER. A genuine anti-imperialist fight. NOWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD are the people engaged in a direct battle with Imperialism Fascism. This fight can and must be a beginning of the FIGHT BACK OF THE WORKING CLASS. It must embrace the ideals of working class led democracy and the worldwide working class movement must embrace this resistance. The good news is that these things are partly done already. Anti Imperialists around the world do identify with the anti -fascist struggle of Heroic Donbas. What must be done Is for LPR and DPR to organize the political principles of their resistance and announce them to the world. The worldwide resistance must do everything it can to help the Donbas win the fight – with or without “Putin”.
@The Saker
The west was taught and conditioned to hide/suppress emotions. Cultivation of psychopathic traits is often encouraged as the only path to success. Success here is the only measurement of human value.
This is why you’d never find heartfelt articles in the corporate media and this is why so many of us come here for our daily injections of reality.
Thomas Jefferson said: “Governments constantly choose between telling lies and fighting wars, with the end result always being the same. One will always lead to the other.”
Bush’s war, Obama ‘s war, etc, always self righteous, always finger pointing, always at the expense of others, always based on a big, fat, obvious LIE…nothing will ever change until the Empire will choke on its own debts, and consequently on its own blood. For now they excel at creating chaos, pain and murder while appearing as liberators. Soon they will have to “liberate” themselves. Hang on Russia, Hang on Novorossiya, in a not so distant future, the demon will eat its own poison and only then humanity will be able to move forward.
An amazingly candid post, uncommon these dark days. As is the empathy and love for the oppressed you express so eloquently.
Remember my dear Saker, the darkness will never overcome the light.
Sooner or later the foolish monsters will bitterly regret the decision they made to forfeit their humanity.
What does it profit a man to gain the world yet lose his soul?
I am convinced that Russian forces can not enter Ukraine unless the South Stream pipeline is built and operational.
If the Russian army were ordered to march it could deal harshly with the Bandera’s regime. However, the EU would be in an uproar. NATO would get a second wind. The Gazprom pipeline’s would be sabotaged day and night. Usians & Europeans would blame Russia for the chaos. I can hear them screeching: You broke it you fix it.
Russia has started naval and military drills in the Baltics and Black Sea shadowing NATO’s drills. I do not think that Russia is afraid of the big bad wolf NATo or the USA. Lavrov said: I do not recommend anyone attacking Crimea because we have a defense doctrine that ….blabla….in other words….nukes will fly! So it is not like Russia is afraid of going into the Donbass but the timing is not right. South Stream needs to be built and operational.
Saker you wrote the following: “I have been told many times that I should not wear my heart on my sleeve and that showing emotions is inappropriate on a blog. If so, then I have to apologize because I think that not showing emotions in these circumstances is a sure sign of zombification.”
When proffered my advice it was in the context of taking offense to people’s comments (making you troll bait). It was not meant to clip you for expressing disgust towards disgusting things or people (aka paid shill and unethical partisan presstitute, Mary Dejevsky). You have a right to express your anger.
I for one no longer take seriously the words of worthless sold-out unprincipled buttlickers on talk shows. I will not give them the importance or the neuron-time to affect me; I treat them with the contempt they deserve – i.e. they’re too low on the spiritual scale to even merit hatred or anger.
Talking heads that willfully flog lies on TV are paid prostitutes; they exhibit the same sincerity towards the views they espouse that a Porn star exhibits towards enjoying a particularly painful, demeaning, unhygenic and disgusting act. In both cases the participant is being paid to portray something disgusting and pretend they like it and believe in it. The best way to deal with such situations (IMO) is to not give the one spewing lies such importance, otherwise they (or their paymasters) have achieved a victory in consuming your energy – they’ve managed to hurt you, a worthless liar has managed to hurt you – Think about it.
Before you get too far down the road regarding integration of Eastern Ukraine into Russia, please remember what I pointed out before: the ideal solution would be a confederate or Federalized Ukraine where the regions have an implicit veto power over any European/NATO integration. Nothing would be sweeter revenge than achieving effective independence while frustrating the Galicians Euro-whores from uniting with their masters. This scenario would give Eastern Ukraine a chance to ramp-up their economic levels to that of Russia via the Customs Union without poison-pilling the Russian economy (the way Eastern Germany imploded Germany’s economy during unification). The scenario I speak about in anathema to the Euro-Nazis of Brussels and Berlin; I heard multiple Western apparatchiks admit that on their usual propaganda platforms (BBC, etc.).
Rewarding a pillaging horde (Germany/EU) by ceding territory to them is WRONG and always a bad idea, all of Ukraine needs to be kept out of their grubby thieving hands. The next time they try to expand, you take a piece of their territory (any nation that has been abused by the EU) as punitive damage – using the same Orange revolution techniques they use, except truth would be on your side.
@Observer:When proffered my advice it was in the context of taking offense to people’s comments (making you troll bait).
I fully understand and agree. I might have used your words, but I was referring to the numerous warnings about showing my emotions which, I have to admit, *can* lead me to be misunderstood. For example, each time I express my fears, even if I clearly identify them as such, there are always those who mistake then for my analysis or predictions. Best example is this: do I fear that Putin might betray Novorussia? HELL YEAH!! Do I analytically conclude that this will happen? Absolutely not.
I make a huge distinction between “possible” and “probable”. A Putin betrayal is, in my opinion, definitely possible, but highly improbable. But since it is possible, I most definitely fear it. In fact, it is my worst nightmare. But do I have any reason to believe that my worst nightmare will come true? Nope. Not so far. If I see evidence to the contrary, then I will upgrade this possibility from “possible” to “probable”. But not until then.
So I guess being very careful and precise with words on one side, and emotional on the other makes me easy to misunderstand :-)
Kind regards,
The Saker
Mike Whitney of Counterpunch has a perceptive article on pipeline politics as a driver for the unfolding clusterf**k that is Ukraine.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/09/pushing-ukraine-to-the-brink/
He makes it pretty clear that the value of human life is irrelevant to those that pursue power via resource extraction.
But then, you knew this anyway, or you would not be reading this truthtellers blog ;-)
“What is at work he[re] is the centuries old European racism wh[ich] has always considered that it had the God given right to dispose of our planet in any way it wants and that the will of the rest of mankind is simply irrelevant (just remember the Treaty of Tordesillas). From the Crusades to today’s Nazi occupation of the Ukraine, deception and terror have always been the two pillars of Western “foreign policy”. As for negotiations and lofty principles, they are only what I would call “ancillary tools” which can be used if and when needed to speed things up, or to provide enough time to prepare for a resumption of deception and terror.”
Saker, it’s not your emotions that are are a problem here, but your ignorance and anti-Catholic/anti-European bigotry.
The history of Europe is a history of rival states and national cultures. When Anglophiles oppress Irish Catholics or German Protestants oppress Slavic Catholics, that’s not a blanket “European racism” at work, it’s a national chauvinism and supremacism that’s directed against other European peoples.
To adopt the “anti-racist” PC language of the Empire (and the Empire is preeminently anti-European and anti-Christian) is to perpetuate the sort of anti-European racism that the Empire uses against its own European population and which Anglo-Zionists have used as much against them as against non-Europeans.
Behind your condemnation of “European racism,” I suspect there lies an Orthodox racism — unwilling to recognize that Russians are part of the European race and that Orthodoxy is rooted in the Christianity born of our common Greco-Roman heritage.
-Armenian Catholic
@ Canspeccy
Do us a favor and take you racist clap-trap to Stormfront where it belongs.
That is why I love Your blog. Not only you have got deep knowledge in many crucial fields, you also speak from the heart.
Keep it up!
CM
@Armenian Catholic:Behind your condemnation of “European racism,” I suspect there lies an Orthodox racism — unwilling to recognize that Russians are part of the European race and that Orthodoxy is rooted in the Christianity born of our common Greco-Roman heritage.
Russians are most emphatically NOT part of Europe (which itself is not a race, of course). The Russian culture is, of course, sui generis with roots in the early Slavic people, the Mongol steppe and Byzantium. We have *nothing* in common with Western Europe besides a failed experiment to assimilate us, mostly lead by our westernized elites.
As for Orthodox Christianity, it has its roots in the Roman Empire and is a synthesis of Jewish mysticism and Greek Philosophy. Latin Christianity and Western Europe severed its connections with these roots through the (aptly named) Dark Ages and more or less re-discovered them thanks to the Arab and Islamic cultures.
Bottom line is this: we are Romans, you are Franks, and there is nothing in common between us. Nor shall there ever be peace between us as long as you deny that crucial, fundamental difference.
:-p
Russian Orthodox (aka The Saker)
YES to emotions, but it’s not just feelings, Saker, they’re based on morality, a deep, deep sense of the absolute wrongness of what the US is doing.
And also, please not despair — determination. Just determination. To resist, to fight it smart, to outlive the bastards, whatever it takes. Not vainglorious martyrdom, not futile gestures, but out-thinking, figuring out how to cut them off at the knees and fade away quick for another kind of struggle, another kind of fight, over and over and over again. Palestine will out-survive Israel even if all the olive trees are gone, I do believe that. And Western propaganda is only that — the real crux of the issue right now is whether or not Novorossiyans, particularly those who live in Donetsk, are still in denial about what lies ahead. They can fight hard now with a decent chance of success, or bleed a lot and then choose between being led like lambs to the slaughter or fighting even harder against ever worsening odds. But if they are determined and keep on keeping on, they will eventually free themselves. Native Americans fought off the Vikings for half a millenium until they were decimated by their poor resistance to European diseases; if the planet survives, I wouldn’t write them off totally either, especially the younger generation.
Grit matters, a lot more than bluster. And right now, we’ve got bluster and a willingness to destroy, that’s all. It takes more than that to ruin a people. I’m afraid you’ve lived among us long enough to have “caught” our typically American impatience, our desire to have what we want when we want it. But that’s not how it works — it took Ireland 800 years to kick out (most of) the Brits and Russia 700 years to free herself from the Tatars. Otoh, the US is just a flash in the pan: who here thinks we’ll still be The World’s Greatest Hegemon for another twenty-five years? Ten? Five? Hardly. Really, we’re almost done. Regardless of what happens in Novorossiya in the next six or twelve months, I’d say the odds are greater of our collapse and permanent demise than theirs. And winter is coming and Kiev didn’t get their second tranche from the EU and this whole thing is a long, long way from over.
Re: If so, then I have to apologize because I think that not showing emotions in these circumstances is a sure sign of zombification. And my emotions are a dense mix of horror, disgust, despair, hope, determination, rage, sadness, contempt, amazement, fear, faith and a huge desire to scream at the top of my lungs to denounce the infinite hypocrisy of a society which does not even pretend to stand for the values it supposedly holds for sacred. “
Keep in mind that “1984”–literally and the culture Orwell described was 30 years ago and we are deep into the world described therein. Responding as a human is only natural, but you might find it helpful to remind yourself that this is no longer the world in which politics holds sacred what used genuinely to be sacred.
“Bottom line is this: we are Romans, you are Franks, and there is nothing in common between us. Nor shall there ever be peace between us as long as you deny that crucial, fundamental difference.”
That seems to confirm my supposition.
Thank God most Russians don’t feel as you do.
The Saker said:
Bottom line is this: we are Romans, you are Franks, and there is nothing in common between us. Nor shall there ever be peace between us as long as you deny that crucial, fundamental difference.
Hmmm…pretty strong stuff… I would have thought that the teachings of the founder of the movement would have had some relevance… That all men ( and woman and children and all life) are brothers, in that their source is the handiwork of but one creator..
From above the Vineyard, the body’s eyes may continue to see these differences. But a healed mind will no longer acknowledge them. The one answer to all illusions is truth.
:-)
@Saker,
Orthodox Christianity… is a synthesis of Jewish mysticism and Greek Philosophy
Could you recommend any reading material on this particular facet of Orthodoxy? It’s something I’d like to explore further – Thanks much :-)
DavidKNZ said…,
Hmmm…pretty strong stuff… I would have thought that the teachings of the founder of the movement would have had some relevance… That all men ( and woman and children and all life) are brothers, in that their source is the handiwork of but one creator..
Dear David,
Hmmm…the fault lies in the belief that the founder of the movement is some 2000+ years old.
Rather than the belief that one man was created and from his rib his mate was created (one unit, one gene, one atom, one DNA, one whatever) and the founder of the movement started right then.
Holy Quran:
O mankind! Fear your Lord who created you from a single soul and of like nature his mate and from the two scattered [like seeds] countless men and women. (4:1)
Rest of your post to Saker is very excellent and right on target, but the timing of founder of the movement creates confusion.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Got an actual argument, Coldtype? Or do you confine yourself jibes and insults.
Specifically, perhaps you would explain why an opponents of genocide should find favor with the folks you mentioned (I take it that you are familiar with their thinking, whicxh I am not.)
The “indispensable nation” is railing against all those who dispute its indispensability… :)
Sooner rather than later its narrative will be seen to be worthy only of contempt.
Anonymous 18:22:
“It’s said that some time ago, China threatened the US, successfully, with a potential market dump of its trillion-plus in US Treasury bonds, which would collapse the US dollar. The end of US purchases would also severely damage China’s economy, as the US reminded China. ‘Try me’, was China’s brave answer. China has said it is willing to risk 600 million dead in a nuclear war which would leave the USA a smoking ruin, but China still standing.
That’s the attitude Putin should have taken.”
Many times, I had want to say that if it is Chinese government, it would have put a end to this crisis already, but I decided to hold back.
AT beginning, I thought RF would have laughed at US’s face when it talk about sanctions, but to my surprise, RF pretty much yield to US’s threat. I guess from what I read here, RF pretty much controlled by a few rich people who is able to put their self interests above nation, and Putin can be pretty much helpless. So I can see why it is played out as it is.
To bad, if act decisively, and early, RF may incur some difficulty such as lost some deals, temporary lost of some trading partners, have some financial difficulty at beginning, but benefit would out rank inaction. Right now, A lot of people has died, a lot of towns have been destroyed, the crazy nationalists multiplied, and lost of confidants of its own people. It is still far from over yet.
Coldtype said…
@ Canspeccy
Do us a favor and take you racist clap-trap to Stormfront where it belongs.
Yeah, Canspeccy. Don’t you know that a country’s Jewish oligarchs have an inherent right to use debased, foreign, alien populations to commit genocide if they so choose? Especially if the genocide targets whites!
I mean, the whole point of this blog is that only vicious, terrorist, racists deny the Ukrainian oligarchs’ right to do this in the Donbass!
@Coldtype
@Canspeccy
ok. let’s please stop here. thanks.
The Saker
Observer @20:13
“Rewarding a pillaging horde (Germany/EU) by ceding territory to them is WRONG and always a bad idea, all of Ukraine needs to be kept out of their grubby thieving hands.”
Except when some piece of territory is huge liability. I’d “award” to them Lvov, Rivno and surrounding areas along with ukrainian national debt :)
Let them deal with this nest of rabid nazi dogs, isolate this shithole from eastern parts of (former) Ukraine. Enforce quarantine for everyone going in and coming out, so nazisim won’t infect people from other (more civilized) areas :)
Let’s see how ‘civilized West’ will deal with such ‘award’.
Уважаемый Saker, fellow Catholic Armenian, and other commenters that have highlighted the difference between Eastern and Western Christianity: In these perilous time all we followers of the faith of the Apostles, all we people that since Antioch have called ourselves Christians, all our Moslem brothers and sisters [“Muslim” in English being a recent, ethnic term], all we people of good will subscribing to this blog, need to stick together. To coin a phrase: if we don’t hang together we shall surely hang separately. The Empire would sell us all as slaves if it could.
The differences between Eastern and Western Christianity are very complex, not only theological, but historical, and as Saker indicated in his juxtaposition between Roman and Frank, essentially political. (Saker’s thesis seems to be that of the late Fr. John S. Romanides, expressed in http://www.romanity.org/cont.htm#roman , among other places. Fr. Romanides was a much better theologian than historian, in my opinion. His book “The Ancestral Sin”, about what we call Original Sin in the West, is essential to any study of Christian belief.)
PS: We Maryland Catholics are descended from persecuted English Catholics, evangelized by St. Augustine of Canterbury, sent by St. Gregory the Great about 590 AD. St. Gregory in turn was not only Bishop of Rome (as his lineal successor styles himself), but also a citizen of the Roman Empire, never a Frank. He, moreover, is the the author of the Divine Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts, still used in Eastern Christianity (including our own portion thereof) on weekdays in Great Lent. So far from being Franks (whom we English call “frogs”), we have always been part of the universal church, ever since the time that the Church was Roman and united.
@Gayle: Orthodox Christianity… is a synthesis of Jewish mysticism and Greek Philosophy Could you recommend any reading material on this particular facet of Orthodoxy? It’s something I’d like to explore further – Thanks much :-)
Hmm. That is a tough one. First, I should not have used the word “synthesis”. What I meant is that by the time of Christ Hellenized Jews had acquired a vocabulary, philosophical categories, which were Greek in their origin. Later, the Church Fathers very often used Platonic and Aristotelian categories, but they gave them a new meaning (something which is often overlooked by western theologians who then misunderstand what they are reading). Since Orthodoxy is, by definition, Patristic, this means that the Orthodox theology ends up using a mixture of Jewish and Greek concepts. So it is not so much a synthesis, as it is that the Church Fathers are “standing on the shoulders of Jewish and Greek giants” so to speak :-)
Does that make sense?
Cheers,
The Saker
let’s please stop here. thanks.
Sure. Absolutely. I only wanted to point out that there is no point to an argument without, well, a point.
But Bill, I think it is oligarchs in general, not merely those of one particular race, color or creed who want to see the voice of the people suppressed, even if one particular race, color and creed happen to have been particularly successful in achieving oligarch status. Thus, there is is close understanding between Jewish oligarchs and the Washington elite, which represents the money power of whatever race or creed.
Plutocracy is intended to be the basis of global governance, and Putin and the Chinese elite apparently pose an obstacle to the prerequisite destruction of the nation state, its racial and cultural identity, both of which are to be replaced: the former with a racially homogenized global proletariat, the latter with a culture that will amount to nothing but the by-product of the commercial system and the requirements of the system for population brainwashing and control.
There is an article by Mary Dejesvsky on Putin on The Guardian UK Newspaper, and it is the most heavily comments censored article I have ever seen on this crisis.
I do believe that Mary Dejevsky is a Zio-Nazi herself, she certainly sympathises with them, and hides behind mendacious gravy veneered rhetoric to defend their motives and agendas.
Here are other comments that I had got censored on her Putin thread (where she advocates that Putin is motivated by fear in his actions, btw):
So why have the NaziGuard kept targetting solely civilians structures in the end? prompting the anti-fascists Novorosyya fighters to retreat for fear for the civilians.
Why wouldn’t they allow humanitarian relief corridors before.
Why would they shell and bomb clearly labelled civilian vehicles full of children and women.
Why have they kept shelling even after it was clear those fighters left.
and why are they rounding up and arresting all civilians aged 25-35 and disappearing them?
These are not rules of engagement in wars, and in contravenence to the Geneva Convention.
Your bunch are savages, to put it mildly.
That is the essence of it, it is a programme to free East and South Ukraine of natives to allow for the exploitation of the land by the West’s multinationals,
it is clear as daylight,
the shelling of infrastructure and factories in the Donbass are proof to it, they kept shelling those even when the so called “rebels” left.
They want to destroy East Ukraine so as it becomes impossible to inhabit, and make its industrial base worthless,
and this they hope would force mass exodus of the population, it is human cleansing, probably worse than ethnic cleansing, if that is possible, a better word is targeted genocide.
A good analyst does not reject any scenario, however outlandish.
I just gave one, based on past trends, and likely projections.
Humans are creatures of habit, and thieves and criminals really do follow similar patterns, inclusive of military strategists.
Putin was a civil servant, pushing data and obeying rules, he is not well suited as military strategists who need to think in non linear terms.
But thanks for the compliment.
You have your finger on the pulse of the phenomenon.
The Nazis were actively working on a mind control programme, and propaganda was part of it, but also immersion in mass rallies and groupings.
The CIA used the results of that research after paperclip, and continued the programme rebranded Monarch mind control.
I am pretty certain the US$ 5 billion Dollars included a chunk for this psy ops operation to turn Russian into hate figures worthy of killing and destroying.
Further, I am more and more convinced that German VIP figures have a deep hand into this too, there might be a programme wanting to resurrect Nazism in a country in Europe, here Ukraine.
Noble Servant, the Nazis put fluoride in the water supply of the camps, to keep the inmates quiescent. The global Nazi power since 1943 or so, when Germany was seen to have failed in the East, has been the USA. Its open support for Nazis in Ukraine is simply the latest expression of its unchanging preference for Rightwing butchers, organised in death-squads or in gigantic, merciless, military forces, as weapons of control and coercion. Throw in the fun of child-murdering sanctions and blockades and a brutal economic order that causes 30,000 (down from 50,000) avoidable child deaths every single day, and you have an Evil Empire that runs on death and terror. If Putin allows Novorossya to go under its people will certainly be expelled, the Nazis from Banderastan will certainly flock to the new lebensraum, the Western MSM sewer will certainly celebrate another victory for ‘Western moral values’, and the subversion of Crimea will certainly follow.
A question and a comment
1. I am frustrated by Putin’s reactive stance in the face of Porky’s terror bombing. That said, hasn’t he won a bit of a victory by at least having discussions that left Kerry the war monger out of it?
2. Who outed the German spy? Did Russian intelligence have a role. That is a huge embarrassment for American intentions and puts pressure on Merkel within the no sanctions bloc of her own party
@Saker,
Orthodox Christianity… is a synthesis of Jewish mysticism and Greek Philosophy
Could you recommend any reading material on this particular facet of Orthodoxy? It’s something I’d like to explore further – Thanks much :-)
——–
Read a book called the Pagan Mysteries. Christianity is updated Osiris-Dionysus worship
@ Saker,
Thx for your reply. After posting my question, I found an interesting collection of material here.
I’m looking forward to digging my way through the links :-)
Hi Saker,
I think you should always have emotions in politics and journalism. This pseudo-human notion of “neutrality” is a falsehood that has allowed for great atrocities to be committed because everyone was being “unbiased”.
We are human with warm blood in our veins. We are not cold calculated murderers like the US/EU “politicians”.
You are doing a great job, keep it up!
Regards,
@ Saker,
Thx for your reply. After posting my question, I found an interesting collection of material here.
I’m looking forward to digging my way through the links :-)
Dear Saker,
Please,Sir:
“Are we really living in a world whose only message to those who want to live in peace on their own land and in their own culture is “fuck you! you will henceforth live under Nazi rule and don’t you dare resist!”?
This seems very much to be the case throughout the world at this time. I know of no one who is at peace to whom others who are not, are screaming “fuck you”; most generally this is the point of the police state under which nearly all little people live.
“Nevermind that the right of self-determination is enshrined in all the most sacred documents of international law. Nevermind that the West is supposedly fiercely anti-Nazi. And nevermind that nobody is denying that the junta in Kiev came to power in an illegal armed insurrection. Somebody naive would have expected the entire international community, lead by the “democratic West” and the “Leader of the Free World and Indispensable Nation” aka the US, to absolutely condemn the Nazi regime in Kiev and given its fullest support to the freedom loving people of Novorussia. But no. Not at all. The exact opposite happened.”
I have never commented here because I am completely unknowledgable with regard to the cultures and history of the combatants.
However, I have followed all of my life the history of indigenous cultures throughout the world and feel as though it is only Caucasian peoples who count under the banner of human rights.
You only have to ask the Basque peoples of Spain and France, the Pacific Islands peoples, the amazonian peoples, the ‘indigenous’ peoples, of North America, South America, Central America, Africa, Australia, Asia, etc., etc. about ‘self-determination’ to hear laughter and then a very calm explanation of how long each has worked with the UN on self-determination.
I appreciate the work and frustration of what you are about too much to be dis-repectful over a few words said with passion.
Your comment took me by surprise because these things and fascist governments never lost a war as you well know.
Thank you so much for your efforts on behalf of peace on the planet—very few people even make such an effort.
Re 1st comment by Bakunin, 09 July, 2014 17:23
Thank you! I didn’t know about these documentaries, though I have tried to follow Scott Noble’s work.
There is also a Part 4:
Counter-Intelligence: IV – Necrophilous
Shining a light on black operations
http://vimeo.com/66610572
Please leave “religions” out of this. As for how much religions do make life on Earth better, I suggest opening a new – free – discussion.
Do not mix faith and human values – stuff we are born with – with religions
Thanks