@Anonymous:One guest says that NATO will be coming to the Ukraine before long for drills, and will not have a reason to leave. What do you think?
Yes, I noticed that. I have no info on that, but Korybko seems to be sure of his facts as for the interpretation, I think that he is spot on. In fact, I would love it if NATO did that because then they would be involved in a nightmare which even the German military could not handle during WWII. Can you imagine the corrosive effect of a constant NATO presence in Banderastan? Think of a BIG “Kosovo” smack in the middle of Europe! LOL!!
The bastards running the EU would deserve that imho.
Saker, really? I read that a while back, it’s scheduled for sometime in July and just the thought of it has me just about trembling for all those innocent lives that will be ruined or ended for, at best, a gradual shrinkage of the Empire’s reach.
Somebody needs to scream full blast in each European leader’s ears: “Friends don’t let friends drive drunk!” Dear God, somebody’s got to stop us bc we sure won’t stop ourselves.
@Nora: don’t worry. We are probably talking about the western Ukraine regions anyway and, besides, it is not going to be like the invasion of Iraq: it will be a peaceful entry and the locals will be happy for an business it will get them. NATO will not be involved in direct combat operation or death squads and all in all this is going to be a rather peaceful entry. The “fun” will start after that, when the Ukie economy tanks and the US and especially the EU will have to do something about it, that is the point at which NATO troops on the ground will end up looking and angry Right Sector types, armed with NATO anti-tanks weapons :-))
Thank you very much for posting that discussion, Saker. That point about unintended consequences seems certainly directed at the EU and it does make very much sense as the comments pointing in other posts to the agricultural interests would support.
Sadly, unintended consequences doesn’t apply to the US. What a horrible government policy to divide in order to conquer has been adopted here. The shame of it is nearly too much to bear.
I want also to say that some have been saddened that the peace-loving citizens of southern regions didn’t set up adequate defenses against those Right Sektor attacks. As was I. But I would remind us that two very early, and for me very great, saints of that very region, Saint Boris and Saint Gleb, chose not themselves to fight against their own scheming relatives, and so became icons of nonviolence. Where that is possible, let it continue to be the standard of brotherhood in Ukraine at the same time that a necessary resistance against evil become the rule.
“Friends don’t let friends drive drunk.” Very well said!
OK, but what if they put a bunch of troops in Kherson? Won’t that make it hard to re-create Novorossiya? That would be one of areas with the least pro-Russian sentiment in the project, and would serve to isolate Odessa.
By the way, what do you see as the timeframe now? How soon to try to get a vote in Kharkov? Odessa? What to do about Dnipropetrovsk?
Clear desire from Lugansk & Donetsk to join Russia but what about the likes of Kherson, Zaparozhy, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk? I cant imagine they want to be part of Banderastan at this stage? There is only a rump Ukraine left. A Ukraine that sends fascist thugs, foreign mercs & armour against civilians whose only crime is to hate neo-Nazis and their globalist banker bosses. Hopefully the cascade will continue and other parts of Novorossiya will leave. The remaining country of “Ukraine” will probably have a GDP/capita similar to some of the better off African countries, and depend as much on foreign aid & emigres sending money back.
Now I get it — NATO regains its raison d’etre, our MIC at least makes more money (not sure about the effect of any of those “games” on that beautiful rich soil there), and our oligarch of choice gets supported. But — and this is a wild, wild guess — but I’m wondering if there aren’t more Bandera supporters in the US and Canada than even Galicia: they didn’t have the numbers in any election, just the drugged-up thugs. So there’ll still be lots of innocent people hurt, just maybe not this summer.
God, I hate this stuff. It’s hardly an original thought but wouldn’t it be nice if the folks who want a war are the only ones who have to fight it?
OK, but what if they put a bunch of troops in Kherson? Won’t that make it hard to re-create Novorossiya?
You can’t recreate what never existed. Novorossiya is something new, not the rebirth of something old. A label on a map in the 1700’s doesn’t make a region exist as a state.
That would be one of areas with the least pro-Russian sentiment in the project, and would serve to isolate Odessa.
Odessa is no more isolated than Moldova. In fact, with access to the Black Sea, Odessa + Budjak + Gauguzia + Tranistria is a nice little statelet of 3 million people. There is no reason it cannot be as functional as any of the three Baltic States on its own, or as part of another state as an exclave like Kaliningrad.
How soon to try to get a vote in Kharkov? Odessa?
Do you see the people in either place riled up about Kiev? If they cannot take matters into their own hands, they are going to be stuck where they are.
What to do about Dnipropetrovsk?
That Oblast is not going anywhere. I don’t understand why people cannot realize how different it is than Donbass. Dnipropetrovsk is the home of Timoshenko and Yarosh. The people there clearly think of themselves as one with L’viv, not Donetsk..
points out that the modality of the Homs “victory” in syria poses two incoming problems for russia:
1)”The campaign led by Washington to dissuade jihadists from going back to NATO countries suggests that a new purpose will be found for them. For over a year, the Russian Federation has been convinced that it will be the next target of Westerners. So, it prepares for a new shock, even if it does not know where it will happen exactly.”.
2) “Finally, the victory of Homs hints at the possibility of a future rivalry between Iran and Russia. It is clear that if Washington had confidence in Tehran in this case, it is because the two states have previously entered into a comprehensive agreement. It seems that the United States is remaking Iran Constable of the area, as it was at the time of the Shah”.
The best news is, that American’s are finally starting to realize what happend to their country!!! How they were missused under the pretention to bring the democracy to create chaos and terror to the foreign countries. American economy is on their knees like economy of the Ukraine. Till July it is going to be a very fast / I have a feeling that it will be NO excercise with NATO /solution regarding to the establishment of the new financial system around the world wchich will show to these psychotic taughs that there is no escape because in this last Odesa action they have exposed themselves totally at the front of the all world including the misleading information’s from the MSM. My biggest concern is that, these psychopats as a last terror will prepare some big massacre as a revenge to the voter’s of this referendum, hopefulluy not, but it looks like they are still going to kick and fight because they are just can’t take the defeat and recognize their battle is over. After that, it will be no place to hide around this earth for these psychopaths.
Good analysis on Ukraine, but the guy in Wisconsin kept taking jabs at the Egyptian government.
Morsi had already abandoned democracy and was about to launch a war against Syria. This was the last straw for the Egyptian military.
Also there were absolutely massive demonstrations – much bigger than those during the ouster of Mubarak. Morsi was an IMF stooge and had begun to impose severe austerity.
I would have liked to share this episode, but couldn’t do so with this sort of slander against the independent Nasserist Egyptian leadership under Sisi, which is taking Egypt out of Washington’s orbit for the first time in decades.
Serhiy Pashynsky, the acting presidential chief of staff, told journalists at the Ukrainian Crisis Media Center on May 11 that such “statements give cause for concern, as they may cause destabilization, and we will not allow this.”
Though he expressed concern about Metinvest’s private army, Pashynsky said that there is “no evidence” that Akhmetov’s conglomerate is financing separatism.
Pashynsky said that Akhmetov’s creation of a private army not only destabilizes the situation in eastern Ukraine, but also “jeopardizes the spread of the situation in other regions of Ukraine.”
“Of course we will not accept any paramilitary units other than those we create…Anyone who wishes to defend the territory of Ukraine – will have an opportunity to do so within a legal framework,” Pashynsky said.
—————–
The cognotive dissonance is strong with this crew.
It seems Moscow is being invited to intervene as RT reports:
19:14 GMT:
Kiev troops have launched an assault on the eastern Ukrainian city of Slavyansk, a stronghold of anti-government activists, local self-defense says.
“Slavyansk is being bombarded from several sides, we have information that the adversaries are using heavy mortars,” a self-defense HQ spokesperson told Interfax.
Mobile communications have also been disrupted in the city, the agency says.
______________________
Now that the vote has been taken there is a more compelling invitation…
and now the US has announced exercises with the strategic defense forces including the bomber fleet – but of course no military options are being considered and this is just an exercise…
also the popular icon of Crimean repatriation Natalia Poklonskaya has been banned from traveling to the EU – what a hoot. She is surely a potent threat to world order!
It may have slipped attention but weapons are activated by people. Moving people into closer proximity gives greater potential for interaction – like the “Ukrainian army”. As to screaming in ears, typically screaming leads to the screamed at perceiving that their opponent is distressed, that their strategy is working and that they should continue with that strategy. Therefore such screaming re-inforces the position of the screamed at. “Representative democracy” – the European Commission in no way being even representative, and the European Parliament can merely rubber stamp the musings of the Commission – is a way of re-inforcing difference and enhancing ideological immersion – in effect the “voters” surrender their potential of participation to their representatives. The way forward was shown in part by Eastern Ukraine through referenda if they are acted upon and the votes not counted by Diebold. These partly account for the opponent’s assertions that the referenda were undemocratic – by which they partly mean not “representative democracy”, which they realise is a useful tool to underpin and obfuscate the bases of the opponent’s continued existence. Unless required for re-inforcing your opponents’ prejudices and mapping to your strategic advantage, don’t play in your opponents paradigm. For those who think latterly any “action” can be used advantageously in process. Don’t put any confidence in “representatives”; have confidence in yourself and your fellow participants.
One guest says that NATO will be coming to the Ukraine before long for drills, and will not have a reason to leave. What do you think?
Paul
@Anonymous:One guest says that NATO will be coming to the Ukraine before long for drills, and will not have a reason to leave. What do you think?
Yes, I noticed that. I have no info on that, but Korybko seems to be sure of his facts as for the interpretation, I think that he is spot on. In fact, I would love it if NATO did that because then they would be involved in a nightmare which even the German military could not handle during WWII. Can you imagine the corrosive effect of a constant NATO presence in Banderastan? Think of a BIG “Kosovo” smack in the middle of Europe! LOL!!
The bastards running the EU would deserve that imho.
Cheers,
The Saker
Saker, really? I read that a while back, it’s scheduled for sometime in July and just the thought of it has me just about trembling for all those innocent lives that will be ruined or ended for, at best, a gradual shrinkage of the Empire’s reach.
Somebody needs to scream full blast in each European leader’s ears: “Friends don’t let friends drive drunk!” Dear God, somebody’s got to stop us bc we sure won’t stop ourselves.
@Nora: don’t worry. We are probably talking about the western Ukraine regions anyway and, besides, it is not going to be like the invasion of Iraq: it will be a peaceful entry and the locals will be happy for an business it will get them. NATO will not be involved in direct combat operation or death squads and all in all this is going to be a rather peaceful entry. The “fun” will start after that, when the Ukie economy tanks and the US and especially the EU will have to do something about it, that is the point at which NATO troops on the ground will end up looking and angry Right Sector types, armed with NATO anti-tanks weapons :-))
Cheers and hugs,
The Saker
Thank you very much for posting that discussion, Saker. That point about unintended consequences seems certainly directed at the EU and it does make very much sense as the comments pointing in other posts to the agricultural interests would support.
Sadly, unintended consequences doesn’t apply to the US. What a horrible government policy to divide in order to conquer has been adopted here. The shame of it is nearly too much to bear.
Not in our name.
Saker, you might be right but each of these turns around the maelstrom is a turn closer to the vortex at the centre.
As we get closer to the vortex the harder it is, the more resolve that is needed, to avoid destruction.
Once we hit the vortex there is no moving away. No changing course.
I want also to say that some have been saddened that the peace-loving citizens of southern regions didn’t set up adequate defenses against those Right Sektor attacks. As was I. But I would remind us that two very early, and for me very great, saints of that very region, Saint Boris and Saint Gleb, chose not themselves to fight against their own scheming relatives, and so became icons of nonviolence. Where that is possible, let it continue to be the standard of brotherhood in Ukraine at the same time that a necessary resistance against evil become the rule.
“Friends don’t let friends drive drunk.” Very well said!
re: NATO
OK, but what if they put a bunch of troops in Kherson? Won’t that make it hard to re-create Novorossiya? That would be one of areas with the least pro-Russian sentiment in the project, and would serve to isolate Odessa.
By the way, what do you see as the timeframe now? How soon to try to get a vote in Kharkov? Odessa? What to do about Dnipropetrovsk?
Paul
Clear desire from Lugansk & Donetsk to join Russia but what about the likes of Kherson, Zaparozhy, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk? I cant imagine they want to be part of Banderastan at this stage? There is only a rump Ukraine left. A Ukraine that sends fascist thugs, foreign mercs & armour against civilians whose only crime is to hate neo-Nazis and their globalist banker bosses. Hopefully the cascade will continue and other parts of Novorossiya will leave. The remaining country of “Ukraine” will probably have a GDP/capita similar to some of the better off African countries, and depend as much on foreign aid & emigres sending money back.
Saker,
Now I get it — NATO regains its raison d’etre, our MIC at least makes more money (not sure about the effect of any of those “games” on that beautiful rich soil there), and our oligarch of choice gets supported. But — and this is a wild, wild guess — but I’m wondering if there aren’t more Bandera supporters in the US and Canada than even Galicia: they didn’t have the numbers in any election, just the drugged-up thugs. So there’ll still be lots of innocent people hurt, just maybe not this summer.
God, I hate this stuff. It’s hardly an original thought but wouldn’t it be nice if the folks who want a war are the only ones who have to fight it?
OK, but what if they put a bunch of troops in Kherson? Won’t that make it hard to re-create Novorossiya?
You can’t recreate what never existed. Novorossiya is something new, not the rebirth of something old. A label on a map in the 1700’s doesn’t make a region exist as a state.
That would be one of areas with the least pro-Russian sentiment in the project, and would serve to isolate Odessa.
Odessa is no more isolated than Moldova. In fact, with access to the Black Sea, Odessa + Budjak + Gauguzia + Tranistria is a nice little statelet of 3 million people. There is no reason it cannot be as functional as any of the three Baltic States on its own, or as part of another state as an exclave like Kaliningrad.
How soon to try to get a vote in Kharkov? Odessa?
Do you see the people in either place riled up about Kiev? If they cannot take matters into their own hands, they are going to be stuck where they are.
What to do about Dnipropetrovsk?
That Oblast is not going anywhere. I don’t understand why people cannot realize how different it is than Donbass. Dnipropetrovsk is the home of Timoshenko and Yarosh. The people there clearly think of themselves as one with L’viv, not Donetsk..
While the “ukrainan war ” is growing the ” syrian war ” seems going to a lower level , but this article
http://www.voltairenet.org/article183731.html
points out that the modality of the Homs “victory” in syria poses two incoming problems for russia:
1)”The campaign led by Washington to dissuade jihadists from going back to NATO countries suggests that a new purpose will be found for them. For over a year, the Russian Federation has been convinced that it will be the next target of Westerners. So, it prepares for a new shock, even if it does not know where it will happen exactly.”.
2) “Finally, the victory of Homs hints at the possibility of a future rivalry between Iran and Russia. It is clear that if Washington had confidence in Tehran in this case, it is because the two states have previously entered into a comprehensive agreement. It seems that the United States is remaking Iran Constable of the area, as it was at the time of the Shah”.
The best news is, that American’s are finally starting to realize what happend to their country!!!
How they were missused under the pretention to bring the democracy to create chaos and terror to the foreign countries.
American economy is on their knees like economy of the Ukraine.
Till July it is going to be a very fast / I have a feeling that it will be NO excercise with NATO /solution regarding to the establishment of the new financial system around the world wchich will show to these psychotic taughs that there is no escape because in this last Odesa action they have exposed themselves totally at the front of the all world including the misleading information’s from the MSM.
My biggest concern is that, these psychopats as a last terror will prepare some big massacre as a revenge to the voter’s of this referendum, hopefulluy not, but it looks like they are still going to kick and fight because they are just can’t take the defeat and recognize their battle is over.
After that, it will be no place to hide around this earth for these psychopaths.
Good analysis on Ukraine, but the guy in Wisconsin kept taking jabs at the Egyptian government.
Morsi had already abandoned democracy and was about to launch a war against Syria. This was the last straw for the Egyptian military.
Also there were absolutely massive demonstrations – much bigger than those during the ouster of Mubarak. Morsi was an IMF stooge and had begun to impose severe austerity.
I would have liked to share this episode, but couldn’t do so with this sort of slander against the independent Nasserist Egyptian leadership under Sisi, which is taking Egypt out of Washington’s orbit for the first time in decades.
Great article here about Rinat Akhmetov
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/donetsk-peoples-governor-claims-akhmetov-is-financing-separatism-347469.html
Serhiy Pashynsky, the acting presidential chief of staff, told journalists at the Ukrainian Crisis Media Center on May 11 that such “statements give cause for concern, as they may cause destabilization, and we will not allow this.”
Though he expressed concern about Metinvest’s private army, Pashynsky said that there is “no evidence” that Akhmetov’s conglomerate is financing separatism.
Pashynsky said that Akhmetov’s creation of a private army not only destabilizes the situation in eastern Ukraine, but also “jeopardizes the spread of the situation in other regions of Ukraine.”
“Of course we will not accept any paramilitary units other than those we create…Anyone who wishes to defend the territory of Ukraine – will have an opportunity to do so within a legal framework,” Pashynsky said.
—————–
The cognotive dissonance is strong with this crew.
Operation Rapid Trident
http://www.stripes.com/news/us-army-to-proceed-with-planned-exercise-in-ukraine-1.272551
It seems Moscow is being invited to intervene as RT reports:
19:14 GMT:
Kiev troops have launched an assault on the eastern Ukrainian city of Slavyansk, a stronghold of anti-government activists, local self-defense says.
“Slavyansk is being bombarded from several sides, we have information that the adversaries are using heavy mortars,” a self-defense HQ spokesperson told Interfax.
Mobile communications have also been disrupted in the city, the agency says.
______________________
Now that the vote has been taken there is a more compelling invitation…
the pessimist
and now the US has announced exercises with the strategic defense forces including the bomber fleet – but of course no military options are being considered and this is just an exercise…
also the popular icon of Crimean repatriation Natalia Poklonskaya has been banned from traveling to the EU – what a hoot. She is surely a potent threat to world order!
the pessimist
It may have slipped attention but weapons are activated by people.
Moving people into closer proximity gives greater potential for interaction – like the “Ukrainian army”.
As to screaming in ears, typically screaming leads to the screamed at perceiving that their opponent is distressed, that their strategy is working and that they should continue with that strategy. Therefore such screaming re-inforces the position of the screamed at.
“Representative democracy” – the European Commission in no way being even representative, and the European Parliament can merely rubber stamp the musings of the Commission – is a way of re-inforcing difference and enhancing ideological immersion – in effect the “voters”
surrender their potential of participation to their representatives. The way forward was shown in part by Eastern Ukraine through referenda if they are acted upon and the votes not counted by Diebold.
These partly account for the opponent’s assertions that the referenda were undemocratic – by which they partly mean not “representative democracy”, which they realise is a useful tool to underpin and obfuscate the bases of the opponent’s continued existence.
Unless required for re-inforcing your opponents’ prejudices and mapping to your strategic advantage, don’t play in your opponents paradigm.
For those who think latterly any “action” can be used advantageously in process.
Don’t put any confidence in “representatives”; have confidence in yourself and your fellow participants.