by Stephen Karganovic for The Saker blog
Introduction to Bishop Artemije interview
I initially met Bishop Artemije, the exiled ruling hierarch of the Kosovo diocese of the Serbian Orthodox Church, a few years ago, after the expulsion from his see in 2010 and the deplorable abuse that he suffered at the hands of his synodal brethren. At first glance, that frail man, tiny of stature but of imposing spirit, hardly suggested a fearless confessor of the Orthodox faith and relentless champion of its purity. But it did not take long for me to grasp that the figure in whose presence I stood, combining patristic humility with zealous gravity, was the real thing and not one of the ecclesiastical bureaucrats in episcopal vestments that today pass for church hierarchs, or perhaps to put it more accurately — functionaries.
That is why meeting Bishop Artemije and absorbing his extraordinary and utterly genuine charisma was such a spiritual treat and delight.
Bishop Artemije was the spiritual child Saint Justin Popovich, arguably the greatest theologian of the Serbian Church in the twentieth century, along with three other prominent students of the same spiritual father. The latter have, regrettably, departed from the teaching of their holy mentor and fallen into the abyss of apostasy by choosing to adhere to the ecumenical heresy of our time. By some odd quirk, at the beginning of the 1990s, as the Kosovo crisis was gaining momentum (or by the design of Providence, as might be put more accurately) the outwardly frail Artemije was selected by his episcopal colleagues to take charge of the Orthodox Church in Kosovo, with all the souls and monasteries, containing unaccountable treasures, in its sacred inventory. They must have regretted it later.
Energetic peacemaker as the crisis kept worsening, Bishop Artemije turned into an uncompromising defender of the beleaguered Orthodox community in Kosovo and relentless opponent of the rape of this Serbian province that NATO and the Western powers clearly were preparing when in 1999 they mounted their aggression against Serbia. By rejecting the “politically correct” path of cooperation with the local criminals who were soon installed by their Western sponsors as Kosovo’s “government,” Bishop Artemije drew upon himself the enmity of this world’s powers that be. He did not however back down, prepared a lawsuit against the aggressors on behalf of his diocese, and declined to concede even an inch to them. His laudable recalcitrance is described in some detail in the interview that follows.
But to the surprise of many, the legion of “all the usual suspects” was soon joined by the Patriarchy of the Serbian Orthodox Church and his brother bishops, whom those suspects apparently had in their pocket, or at least over whom they wielded remarkably effective mechanisms of influence and perhaps even control. In 2010, after a meeting of the Patriarch with the then imperial proconsul in Belgrade, at a hastily convoked church synod Bishop Artemije was dethroned from his see, accused on trumped up charges of financial misconduct, and soon thereafter excommunicated from the Serbian church for “insubordination.” Followed by his spiritual children, nearly two hundred clergy and monastics, he left Kosovo and went into what he calls “exile.” He refuses to recognize his removal from office, not having had a church trial nor having been allowed to offer a proper defense to the charges laid against him (the court case mounted by the Patriarchy against him still languishes in the judicial system eight years after it was filed, there being no credible evidence to support the accusations), and considers himself a hierarch in good standing of the Serbian Orthodox Church. His “Kosovo diocese in exile” now functions exterritorially. “Catacomb” parishes and monasteries under its auspices are springing up all over Serbia and numerous other countries where there is a Serbian diaspora. His historic “no” to the official church’s debasement of the faith embodied in their avid acceptance of ecumenism has found resonance far and wide. Bishop Artemije is upholding the banner of genuine Orthodoxy unfurled by his spiritual father St Justin and his diocese, faithful to a fault to the teaching and practice of the Orthodox Church, has become the new standard of the spiritual health of the Serbian nation. Serbian believers who seek his spiritual guidance are now the core element of Serbia’s future regeneration, should God will that to come to pass.
——-
Q: Your Grace, what is the current political situation in Serbia and prospects for the future?
Bishop Artemije: Your question strikes me as overly broad. Serbia is the designated culprit for all evils which have befallen the states of the former Yugoslavia, perhaps even the entire Balkans. After the disintegration of Yugoslavia Serbia has not found its place under the sun. Every government we’ve had since then was worse than the ones that preceded it. That would be our assessment, at least. And it continues to be true to this day. No matter how depressing the current situation might be, no matter how aghast we might be at the conduct of our authorities, and there I have principally in mind the President himself, I am afraid that those who will follow will be even worse. It is difficult to say why it is so. Simply put, Serbia is no longer capable of raising men of character, statesmen and leaders, not even ecclesiastical figures, of the caliber it truly deserves. Unfortunately, the team which is in charge of both the State and the Church has utterly ruined everything that was entrusted to it. So that is where things stand today.
Q: What is the current situation of true Orthodoxy in Serbia and prospects for the future?
Bishop Artemije: It is difficult for one person to encompass and grasp the spiritual condition of an entire nation. But judging by the conduct of the spiritual leadership, which means the church authorities, I think that the level of spirituality in Serbia, as well as everything else in this country, is abysmally low and in a condition of complete degradation. Under the influence of a new crop of bishops, new priests, and new monks, the average believer is being reshaped in a way that has little in common with patterns that were deeply ingrained throughout the centuries. That applies to the order of worship, the administering of the Holy Mysteries, holy communion, keeping lent … at all levels we are witnessing decadence or — to put it another way — secularization. They are teaching the people that confession is no longer necessary, that weekly communion should and may be taken without adequate preparation, regardless of the quality of the believer’s life … That is not the Orthodox approach. When you look at it from the outside, you might even get the misleading impression that things are not entirely bad. The churches are large and splendid, priests’ vestments are finely embroidered with gold thread, mitres are studded with gems, choires are good, but the essence of the faith is not there. We are speaking here just of externals, of garments, but not about the man who is wearing them. You may dress up a mannequin with the same garments, but a mannequin is not a spiritual being, it isn’t a man.
Q: And what is in your view the current situation of true Orthodoxy in the world and prospects for the future?
Bishop Artemije: There is a peril much greater and more hideous than all the sects taken together, than even the satanists. That is the contemporary heresy, characteristic of our time – the heresy of ecumenism.
You must have heard of so-called ecumenism. That is not a mere heresy, but an all encompassing heresy, as our blessed father among the saints, Justin Popovich of Chelije, used to call it. In that motley company, the World Council of Churches as they call it, over 300 different sects are amalgamated. For what purpose? They claim that their objective is to restore that unity among Christians and of the Christian church for which Christ had prayed, “that all may be one.”
You might say that the goal is good. Christ truly prayed that all might be one, as He is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. But the means employed by them to that end are not good because their umbrella organization, the World Council of Churches, is the champion of heresy that is all-embracing and more dangerous than had ever made its appearance in the history of Christ’s Church. They have set as their goal that all should be one, but with the stipulation that no one has to change anything in their beliefs or practice. They say to us that we, Orthodox, may remain as we are, while they, the heterodox, may continue to adhere to their erroneous doctrines. And that in that condition we can be integrated and be “one.”
The fathers of all seven Ecumenical councils, who laid the foundations for our Church and Orthodox faith, they all confessed without exception that light has nothing in common with darkness. Life and death cannot be fused. Light and darkness cannot converge. When light appears, darkness dissipates. Where there is no light, darkness predominates. Truth and Falsehood cannot be conjoined, they cannot be “one.” As a result, Christian unity as conceived and preached by ecumenists is simply impossible.
So how would it be possible? Only when there is unity in the Truth, in the authentic faith, the faith that Christ brought down to us, which the apostles preached, which was established by the holy fathers at the ecumenical councils … Any other approach undermines the foundations of the Orthodox Church, the foundations of our faith.
Q: What are the causes and potential consequences of the rift between the Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Moscow Patriarchate?
Bishop Artemije: It is not an issue to which I have given much consideration as a hierarch. It is politics, pure and simple, on both sides.
Unfortunately, that conflict has not arisen and is not playing out based on substantive issues, but appears more to be a turf war for predominance and primacy. That will, of course, have long-term negative consequences for the Orthodox Church because these two religious centers, Constantinople and Moscow, are the most heavily involved in submerging Orthodoxy in the heresy of ecumenism. But that key issue is not the subject of their dispute. Faith is not the issue there at all, but secular power. That is as much as I have to say.
Q: Finally, what is the current political situation in Kosovo and prospects for the future?
Bishop Artemije: The current situation in Kosovo… That „current situation“ has lasted already for twenty years. But the issue known as Kosovo goes back far into the past, beyond the last twenty years. The current state of affairs was being generated gradually, step by step over a long period of time. Let’s leave it up to historians to give a comprehensive assessment of what happened and how. But we do have documentary evidence of the persecution of Serbs in Kosovo up to the 1990s. However, the actual betrayal of Kosovo and Metohija started during World War II, when over 100,000 Serbian residents were forcibly expelled. While the war was still in progress, in February of 1943 Yugoslav communists issued a decree prohibiting the return of the expelled Serbs, even after the cessation of hostilities. The border with Albania was thrown wide open, so the expelled Serbs were simply replaced with Albanians. They moved into abandoned Serbian homes, took possession of Serbian property. That was the initial stage of the situation that prevails in Kosovo and Metohija today. That genocidal decree has not been voided by Serbian authorities to the present day. Governments have come and gone, Titoism is over with, as well as communism presumably, so-called democracy was introduced, but that decree is still in effect. In the latter stages of the persecution, in 1999-2000, over 240,000 additional Serbs were expelled during the current NATO occupation of Kosovo, which was preceded by a 78-day bombing campaign in 1999. Even though in the UN Resolution 1244, which was enacted at the end of the 1999 NATO aggression, it is stated that UN forces would ensure a peaceful life for all and secure return of all expelled inhabitants, that has remained on paper for twenty years but has had no practical effect. There is neither security nor return for the expelled Serbs. These principles are applied to the Albanians only.
What should have been done to remedy this situation? It is very simple. I have spoken on this subject many times. When UN forces, actually NATO under what is said to be a UN mandate, took control of Kosovo, but at the very latest in 2008 when Albanians unilaterally proclaimed independence under American auspices, Serbian Parliament and Government should have officially designated Kosovo as occupied Serbian territory. Regardless of the occupation, that still remains Serbia. We had been under occupation many times and we know how to conduct ourselves under the foreign yoke: you accommodate yourself to foreign rule and their laws, but at the same time you work relentlessly to liberate yourself from the foreign occupier. There is none of that today. When the issue of Kosovo is supposedly being resolved by seeking „compromises,“ and by means of „border corrections,“ then we must ask: what kind of a State is it whose president does not even know the location of its borders?
That is horrifying. This nation is under a spell, as it were, it has lost its sense of identity. Kosovo is not a „territory,“ it is not just subterranean mineral wealth. It is above all else a spiritual issue, it involves the spiritual identity of this nation.
Very depressing interview. Poor Serbia . . . raped and ruined.
The turnout for Putin was enormous a few days ago. Some reports were as high as 100,000 in Belgrade.
The hope Serbs have for Russia saving them and protecting their rights must be enormous, and a last hope from the sounds of the Bishop.
It is almost like the moment in their history when the Native Americans were broken, lost hope and entered the religion of Ghost Dancing.
Maybe it is not that bad, but it seems so.
Perhaps some Serbs living there can add some other POVs and paint a more hopeful picture.
The question is: what can Russia and Putin really do to change the situation for Serbia?
But wasn’t the situation in Russia equally dire and desperate prior to Putin coming to power? Maybe the Serbs need to look within their security apparatus to find a new leader like in Russia.
A leader like Putin is an exceptional individual. Let us assume he is 1 in 1 Million, or 1 in 5 Million. The probability of finding such a leader is much higher in a population of 144 M (Russia) than in a population of 7 M (Serbia)
Serbia had a leader like Putin, before Putin. His name was Milosevic. But he was so demonised that even those who felt utmost sympathy for Serbia saw him as an evil incarnate. His country betrayed him, along with quite a number of generals and heroes who fought (quite successfully and made sure that there was UN resolution 1244, which guaranteed Kosovo to be part of Serbia). His views, sensitivities, historical and economical knowledge were very much similar to Putin’s. He just did not have enough strength to remain afloat. His destiny (being murdered in EU prison) is what they have in mind for Putin. His greatest achievemnt, his resistance bought enogh time for Russia to regain it’s conscience and Putin to emerge.
Yes, and it was due to Serbia lasting 78 days and nights against NATO bombing, with plenty of “collateral damage” that green lighted and enabled Russia to use air power strongly in the Chechen war. The west could accuse Russia of bombing civilians without reminding even the densest sheeple that NATO did the same.
It also made Russians and their military extra angry at Yeltsin and feeling humiliated so their hand was freer to do what was necessary to end the Chechen terrorists’ war and regain control.
It also brought China and Russia together as both felt that they were next. And many people for the first time had their eyes open to just how dishonest and aggressive NATO was and they realized that Russia was about the only hope for countering this New World Order force.
I am just upset that Russia did not at least help Serbia rebuild after NATO bombing ended, nor did it give Serbia and financial breaks, aid or help.
Russia actually threatened to cut off Serbia’s gas for debts. I think the debt was around $2 million. This came at a crucial time during the run-up to elections where Serbia was also facing continued pressure from western meddling and tricks: the west paid the mine director of the Kolubara mines to have the miners strike.
I got the distinct impression that Russia and Russians rather wanted the Milosevic government to fall so they could wash their hands of any expectations of helping the Serbs.
They were silent until that government was overturned and a puppet government installed and then suddenly would say “Serbia betrayed itself – why should we help”.
But if they would have helped right after NATO bombing then that government might not have fallen or would have lasted a year or a few longer, which would have been beneficial to rebuilding Serbia because the Milosevic government was rebuilding from NATO bombing at a breakneck pace which even had the hateful CNN remarking on it.
Milosevic had ambition to be another Tito.
Hi was never Serb patriot as he was pretending to be (pretending only to gain popular support)
He was communist with Yugoslav ideology and all he did was effort to re-create new socialist Yugoslavia.
Everything he was and everything he did was anti-Orthodox and anti Serb in essence.
Even though he pretended so much to sell image of himself as if he was Serb patriot.
That is the tragedy of Serb nation to be betrayed by anti-Serb Yugoslav idea, and all those who supported it.
We Serbs belong to Eastern Byzantine culture and Orthodoxy.
Those are our only true roots and not communism and Yugoslav Masonic internationalism.
I don’t think much can be done while Serbia is ruled by kleptocracies that have proclaimed joining Titanic called the EU as their strategic goal. Populace is being dummified through reality televison, poisoned by GMO, chemtrails, depleted uranium… Those who want to live a life that at least resembles some normality have fled to other countries. Serbia has been bought by the worst type of globalist and is run by pretty much crazy bottom dwellers who keep boasting how they did not joined sanctions against Russia. The regime is being plagued by protests organised in secrecy by opposition mainly run by the Western globalists which to owns the current Government. The main task of the protest is to make sure the Vucic government delivers what it was installed to do: recognise the terrorist state of Kosova* and help create Greater Albania. The current government has done everything they possibly could to weaken Serbia as much as they could although in 2012 they ran a campaign against the then traitors that governed Serbia. Suffice to say they reneged on everything they promised to do and kept dancing to the tune of the globalists. They are now openly saying that because Serbia’s population is shrinking and getting older with huge chunks of land now depopulated the Government should start settling the illegal immigrants transiting through Serbia. Many of them are crazies that were killing people in Syria until recently. Serbia’s representative also signed the recent Marrakesh Migration Pact. All in all the picture is very bleak.
A very good comment, Marko. Serbia is as occupied as can be, without the boots on the ground. Every asppect of serbian political life is controled by the west. There is no systemic opposition to the goverment, just people applying for the job of governing the Serbian colony for the west.
At the very least the best and brightest should try for a non-NATO country – if they have to leave. They should at least consider and research any non-NATO options.
Very accurate, but too pessimistic (even though rightfully so) report.
Life can bring unexpected surprises and that is the missing element in your picture.
We are in God’s hands and Serbia and Serbs will survive despite all that evil that is upon our nation.
I do believe that.
Nothing. They just need to keep doing what they already are. As for us, we need to sink some more until we realize we must do something. That realization is growing but has not yet reached critical mass. We are awaiting a catalyst. All those hardships we endured lowered our expectations levels and that only prolongs the period. But the main problem is that we are lost and weak, as Bishop Artemije said. It tends to happen when “civilized” world wage war of extermination against you through host of political incarnations for at least a century and by some accounting even two. This however does not absolve us of weakness. But is quite used remedy in the face of powerlessness.
Russia, by choosing to not expand her operations in Balkans is buying us time to get on our feet. Hegemon’s attention diverted elsewhere. But we must stand up and free ourselves alone. Otherwise we are not worthy of brotherhood. That idea has not penetrated deep enough yet.
I hear cries that Russia should use soft power,protectionism,invoke special bonds and to essentially turn itself in a new Hegemon. That narrative is served daily because it implies that “they are all the same” so it is then hinted “so why bother with changes when they cost money” and you end with predictions of how much that would cost and how many -insert here popular theme- we could help/build (but we would never will,off course). One leap up and you have it. Inertia to just “replace” US with Russia. Russia as a policy does not do those things and it gives her credibility among free nations. But that is implied to be a weakness somehow.
Regarding Ghost Dancing. More like hibernation period/survival mode. We could endure some of it but does West can? Federal workers not coming to work but instead work elsewhere for they have to pay installments to keep their houses and cars? French protesting during holidays? Those are the sound of a collapse of a society. We know those sound well. Which one of trickles will overflow the cup? If they continue, you will get unwanted answers how exactly your nations look like, compared to countless others they subjected to the same treatment and called them names in their times of suffering.
It is always better for yourselves to police your governments for if others come to do it for, your government will use a patriotic card and foreign enemy and stay in power. Even in the case of a loss they,as a government in exile can make problems for you. So, it is always better to clean your yard alone.
Whoever wants war, may he finds it in his house.
Larchmonter445
At least 125.000 people came to see Putin, somehing I can personally attest, seeing entire streets blocked with buses which brought his supporters to Belgrade.
Larchomonter445
The breakup of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia began in 1991 as part of NATO’s plan for an advance towards the East, namely Russia. It was backed by Germany and the Vatican, the Vatican refusing to accept the existance of Orthodox Christians so close to Rome, while Germany wanted the warm waters of the Adriatic.
The war began in Slovenia, overtly backed by Germany, which sent it’s commando troops to help the Slovenian territorial forces (each republic had territorial defense forces as part of the Yugoslav Army, the JNA). This German intervention was a pathetic failure, the German commando’s getting a good licking from Yugoslav paratroopers. The war continued in Croatia and later on in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Of the six republics, Serbs lived in five of them. The civil war terminated in 1995.
Hostilities were continued in 1999, when NATO attacked, without declaration of war, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, made up of Serbia and Montenegro. The intent was to weaken Serbia by giving the Province of Kosovo and Metohija independence, a legal and historical outrage, as the Province was the cradle of Serbia, possessing 1.300 Orthodox churches and monasteries.
NATO exected a quick victory. Instead it got a 77 air campaign, during which it lost 137 combat aircraft and 25 helicopters, while hospitals in Albania were filled with NATO wounded, a result of combat activities on the Serbian-Albanian border. Even German troops were deserting. The entire NATO operation was witnessed by Russian intelligence officers on the ground, who were analyzing NATO’s performance. They were provided with a bonanza of data. At the end of the campaigm only American and Turkish planes were flying. All others had given up. A compromise was reached. NATO did not demand independence for “Kosovo”, nor was Kosovo recognized by the UN. Countries who recognized the independence of “Kosovo” are slowly beginning to cancel their recognitions.
The so called “Republic of Kosovo” is today the chief dope center in Europe, acting as a conduit for Afghan heroin. It’s run by the Albanian narco-mafia, supported by NATO, which is no big surprise, as US troops in Afghanistan are protecting Afghan poppy fields. The CIA anually makes 60 billion dollars in profit from Afghan heroin.
The situation with Kosovo and Metohija is not an easy one to settle. However, just like Crimea was reunited with Russia, so will Kosovo and Metohija be reunited with Serbia, where it belongs.
Germany was and is the most aggressive, revanchist and anti-Serb warmonger in the world. Three genocides against the Serb people in one century (1914-18, 1941-45, 1991-99)!
The German FM Kinkel demanded in 1992: “Serbia must be forced to its knees!” Already in 1991 the German government openly demanded the destruction of Yugoslavia and armed the Ustashe:
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=677_1323435151
Return of the German army to its killing fields:
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=632_1323437313
Already in 1848/49 when there was no German Reich German imperialists wanted to occupy and colonize Southeast Europe and prevent any Yugoslav state. This German colonialism and warmongering (still) is driven by centuries-old anti-Slavic racism and economic interests. The same revanchist policies are now applied against Russia, too.
“An “increased control of the emigration along the Danube to its mouth” is necessary for a “reorganization of the Donauraum” and a German “colonization” among the “Slavic tribes” (RfdN, 4: 2890f.). [ 23 ]
By the “train of millions of German settlers” to the “empty plains” of the Danube, “our Texas, our Mexico” could emerge there (RfdN, vol. 8: 5721). [ 24 ] The control of German emigration to South-Eastern Europe was also seen in the Paulskirche as an instrument for combating German pauperism. While the German emigrants escaping from mass poverty were absorbed overseas by the “predominant Anglo-American tribe”, they could remain “German” in South Eastern Europe (RfdN, vol. 8: 5863). [ 25 ]
The prevention of a Yugoslav state or a South-Eastern European federation
There was unity among the Paulskirchen delegates in the objective of preventing the emergence of a Yugoslav state or a federation of states of East and South Eastern Europe. [ 27 ] A speaker thus warned that the German part of Austria would only be incorporated into a German state,
Since, in the case of such a dissolution of Austria, a South Slavic kingdom is to be expected, which is likely to be joined by Croatia, Bosnia, Dalmatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Slavonia, and the Wendish constituents of Austria … There would be a state which could benefit us little Rather, to cut off all trade and commerce in that direction (RfdN, Vol. 4: 2773f.). [ 28 ]”
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=https://archive.is/0LMAV
I dont have to be living in Serbia to know that the situation there is a catastrophe. In fact, we can’t just talk about Serbia alone but the Balkans as a whole. Unemployment is rife, the young including professional and non-professional are leaving their countries in droves. Poor old Macedonia has been forced to change its name and identity. Serbia’s prime minister is a lesbian for God’s sake. Our traditional values and morals are being wiped out. Montenegro has become a western lackey. What future is there for the people? A beautiful country called Yugoslavia existed there once. The people lived with honor and dignity. Now they have lost all of that.
Russia could have prevented all of this. Ok, we know that was impossible during the 90’s when it was on its knees but even now Russia still takes a back seat in the Balkans. It should have started a Russia promoting campaign aimed towards the young of the Balkans attracting them to join the Eurasian Union and look towards the East rather than the false and deceiving promises of the West. I know for instance Macedonians have always loved Russia. My great grandmother waited in hope for Russian boots to liberate Macedonia from its enemies but alas it never happened. People of the Balkans despite their love and natural ties became disillusioned with Russia but they’ve also seen the deception of the west and so Russia must step in now and win them back. The future of the Balkans, particularly Macedonia, Montenegro snd Serbia lies to the East with Russia and China, not the West.
It is difficult to understand social, cultural and political circumstances of today’s Serbia without knowing what had happened in the last hundred years. We are talking about balkan wars, then two world wars, each depleting Serbian population to such catastrophic levels that Serbia would possibly never recover. Then, as a cherry on top, we get communist rule, whose top priority was to destroy what was left of it. This last episode with NATO occupation of Kosovo is only a continuation of an old plan, to dismember Serbia once for all and prevent Russia to set foot into this strategically important region.
Really scary part is summarized in this sentence: “Simply put, Serbia is no longer capable of raising men of character, statesmen and leaders, not even ecclesiastical figures, of the caliber it truly deserves.”
I hope (pray) Bishop Artemije is wrong.
@Friend
Why would he be “wrong”…
Deep down, we all know that to be true.
But he did not say, that in the future such leader can not appear.
Difficult times exist for reason. Because they give those negative forces possibility to self destruct, to self consume themselves.
So that after that positive forces can start something new from the ashes.
Like field full of flowers after the forest fire.
What can be more beautiful and bigger manifestation of glory of life
than triumphant apotheosis of beauty that can appear anywhere
wiping out all the reminiscence of destruction.
What is good, it will live forever.
I think, since the Church is the Tsardom, we should establish the Tsardom of Orthodox Christian nations administered by some directly elected bishop.
Great interview, clearly presented. Left me wishing it were longer. Thank you.
I wouldn’t be that sure that Moscow really wallows in the murky waters of Ecumenism, especially after the sinking of the ‘Ecumenical Patriarchy’ into them. It flirted at times with it, but this time is over. I might be wrong and credit Moscow with more than it is worth. But I think that its ‘accommodating’ attitude towards the rest of Christians in the world (who acknowledge the divinity of Jesus Christ) is not worse than the attitude of some ‘Christians’ groping for an ‘accommodation’ with a Christ denying Islam.
“But I think that its ‘accommodating’ attitude towards the rest of Christians in the world (who acknowledge the divinity of Jesus Christ) is not worse than the attitude of some ‘Christians’ groping for an ‘accommodation’ with a Christ denying Islam.”
Indeed. In fact not groping but eagerly embracing.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RhZV8r6jZmQ/WqczzVsj-wI/AAAAAAABai4/dGeKbp6Syjk5FMnS6g9jE3YjEwpigplRQCLcBGAs/s1600/1.jpg
What about this:
http://time.com/4280602/pope-john-paul-synagogue-visit/
“Enter he did—though in fact the official persecution had ended a century before, when the Papal States became part of Italy in 1870—and joined the synagogue’s Chief Rabbi Elio Toaff “in an enthusiastic embrace” as some of the 1,000 onlookers wept.”
Or this:
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/what-pope-francis-synagogue-visit-says-about-jewish-catholic-relations-1.5391901:
“The pontiff’s 1.5 mile journey to the towering Tempio Maggiore shows that what was once unthinkable is now the norm!!!”
I wouldn’t be that sure that Moscow really wallows in the murky waters of Ecumenism, especially after the sinking of the ‘Ecumenical Patriarchy’ into them. It flirted at times with it, but this time is over.
Quite possible indeed. While there were plenty of ecumenist bishops at the MP, many of them have changed their tune due to the public opinion which is overwhelmingly oppose to Ecumenism and, as you say, the rift with the hyper-ecumenist Constantinople will probably contribute to strengthen the already rather anti-ecumenist position of the MP.
In that sense, this might be a very good thing (the further withdrawal of the MP from all this ecumenist apostasy) resulting from a very bad event (the total sellout of the PC to the Empire and it’s interests).
Maybe the PC will do for the MP what the Ukraine did for Russia…
I sure hope so.
The Saker
Wise words from a wise man. If being aware of a problem is the first step to resolving it then this should be a modest consolation: Many Serbs, myself included, are acutely aware of the inadequacy of their spiritual life and the poor quality of their spiritual and political leadership.
‘…the inadequacy of their spiritual life and the poor quality of their spiritual and political leadership.’
How true. Starting with ‘the inadequacy of spiritual life’, I still clearly remember (although now in my 64th year) how, as children, we were taught, for instance, that ‘we should love comrade Tito more than out father and mother’ etc, and communism did it’s best to erase any history , any national (collective) remembrance before 1941. Everything that took place before communists was bad, and everything after 1945 was good. ‘Tito and his partisans liberated us from the Nazis’- like hell they did, it was the Red Army who defeated Germans, partisans only assisted and on wings of Soviet victory, took power in 1944-45., physically (literally) removing any real or potential opposition in Serbia. During that process, orthodox religion in Serbia and priests as it’s exponents were mercilessly humiliated, incarcerated, tortured, hushed up and even physically terminated along with middle class intellectuals. Children were incessantly indocrinated at school about beauty of communism and ugliness of church and priests who were often ridiculed as well. To celebrate openly ‘krsna slava’ (family saint protector’s day) meant arrest and further ‘procession’. Children were baptized in secrecy (so was I), etc. This timeline took place 1945-1975 or so, and somewhere even longer, depending on earnestness (or lack of it) of local party leaders. Due to industrialization, many young people left villages and found employment in cities or even abroad (in Germany as ‘Gastarbeiter’), further removing them from benevolent influence of religion and church. Time and space do not allow me to elaborate further on this sad subject, alas, but I was very encouraged by numerous presence of young people during churchs festivities as of some 10 years ago, especially in Kosovo and Metohija. When times are hard, people always look up for divine protection and guidance
As for political leadership, it was filled by former communists ‘turned’ socialists (such as Milošević – a socialist by name only – a wolf may change his hide, but never his temper, says an old Serbian adage) or Vojislav Šešelj (die-hard commie ‘turned’ radical) and their children, plus people from many fields who realized that politics offer many very lucrative prospects (Drašković, a writer/ Djindjić a philosopher/ Vučić a lawyer without a single day’s work in his vocation, just politics from day one/Čedomir Jovanović, eternal student untill he became vice p.m. etc etc). Those who were true democrats, such as internationally recognized writer in exile, Borisav Pekić, were often quickly marginalized or retired due to ill health. The so-called ‘negative selection’ so often present in former Yugoslavia in many fields of life, including army, thus came to pass in Serbian politics as well. Nowadays, one can not find a person of any moral integrity in any high place of Serbian politics, regime and opposition alike.
What started with Milošević has been very systematically performed since then, i.e. the destruction of all pillars of Serbian (and any other) society: education, jurisprudence, health care, army, police, industry and agriculture. The only institution that is still offering (some) resistance is Serbian orthodox church, but the attacks against it and still remaining leftovers of aforementioned pillars are incessantly performed by huge number of foreign-financed NGOs, domestic neo-liberals and mondialists, foreign media who have in the meantime entrenched themselves in Serbia after 2001 in printed and electronic form and are continuously waging a very strong, thoughtful propaganda campaign, plus foreign diplomats who openly push forward ideas entirely alien, even perverted, to Serbian mentality, upbringing and in total contravention to latest hystorical events (that illegal and criminal NATO bombing was beneficial fro Serbia, that depleted uranium is not harmful etc)
Economic sanctions of the West and empoverishment in Milošević times have almost destroyed middle class, and after 2001. enabled sudden appearance of criminal tycoons(oligarchs) who have been financing many prominent politicians exercising control over them in return. Nowadays there are four classes in Serbia: very rich, rich, poor and very poor.
Thank you for your very insightful comment, doctor from Serbia. It is truly sad how much the Serbians have suffered in the past century, especially your information on what happened there during and after World War 2. Now under the evil occupation government, I could have guessed that they indoctrinate the children and teenagers in schools that the NATO bombings were for a good reason. But I would have never guessed that they would go as far as claiming that “depleted uranium is not harmful.” It reminds me of how in my local American college, a professor of mine was trying to claim that fluoride, high-fructose corn syrup, aspartame and vaccines are all not bad for you. What a wicked world we live in, I just hope that more brave people like Bishop Artemije will rise up and expose the lies.
i don’t really get it. if SFRJ was not good and Yugoslav socialism was so bad for all ethnic groups and nations who lived together, in brotherhood and unity, why crying now? blaming west and vatican for dismembering Jugoslavija? did you serbs (my father was serb and my mother croatian and i still have serb relatives in Serbia and Bosnia) expected that we all will accept serbian POV? and live under Milosevic thumb. all of you who celebrate chetniks and blaming others for not accepting same serbian monarhist positions during WWII are very, very wrong. only one and right options for all nations on teritory of former Jugoslavia was given by Tito communist party. is it so hard to understand that in that time there was none who could unite people except communist party? the alternative is now visible. so why complaining? this site is pro russian as i see it but because it is following truth which is on russian side (for now) in this desperate and danger times. just because serbian have cyrilic like russian is no valid case to accept everything they say or wrote. cornerstones of former Jugoslavija were brotherhood and unity which were made during WWII by partisans from all ethnic groups and nations. chetniks (like ustashe) were not part of it. those cornerstones were slowly “evaporated” during ’90 for various reasons; politics, economics, theft etc. and people turn back to nationalism. “the house” of Jugoslavija crumbled. in war. the guilty is only ours. not USA, Germany or Vatican. they helped, yes. but WE were shooting at each other. i still believe in that we are all brothers and sisters who spoke same language but i will not accept radicals from any side including chetniks. and i will not remain silent to those who want to give meanings to own life by exalting chetniks (and ustashe).
Milosevic was the legitimate president like Tito was before and there was no celebration of chetniks before the war, Milosevic persecuted them. Typical lies as usual.
And I want to say one more thing about that comment. When the Croat Tito was president the Serbs somehow could accept him and his oppression of Serbian identity without revolting and trying to break the country apart, but when the next president was a Serb it was suddenly not okay anymore and it’s all the fault of the Serbs.
Also we don’t need you to tell us to whom we should or should not look as our friends, this kind of subversion can never work. Our friends are the Russians. Not the Vatican, not Saudi Arabia, not the US and not the jews.
And no, there is no brotherhood between us, you started a civil war as soon as the economy tanked, which means everything’s fine as long as there’s money to bribe you, but as soon as there is none it’s let’s kill the Serbs.
Serbs didn’t start a civil war against Serbs because the economy tanked, it’s only those who pretended to be our “brothers” as long as they got what they wanted. I don’t need such “brothers”.
Yugoslavia was cuckoo egg in Serb nest.
All supporters of Yugoslavia starting from Karadjordjevic dynasty to Tito and Milosevic were hidden or open anti-Serbs.
Far too many Serbs died for that anti-Serb creation and brought freedom to the others!
Creation of Yugoslavia and later on communism (just like for Russians USSR) was curse and destruction for Serbs and road to independence for all others (independence that they never had and couldn’t have).
You Croats did not pay WW1 reparations to Serbia and have deserved destiny of aggressor in both wars which you never had thanks to Serb Yugo-stupidity!
Instead you got freedom and independence as “punishment” for your endless anti-Serb crimes.
The only reason why you Croats wanted in Yugoslavia is because you wanted Serbia to give you road to independence and not to pay Serbia reparations.
And in CROAT Tito’s Yugoslavia you went unpunished again!
For genocide against Serbs!
“Brotherhood” of dictator Tito was only propaganda protecting you Croats from establishing TRUTH about Croats GENOCIDE against Serb civilians…
In communist Yugoslavia you Croats have waited only for opportunity to get out!
Huge majority of Croats today are pro-Ustase neo-NAZI !
And true tolerant people in Croatia can be counted on fingers of ONE hand !
Weather you are Croat or Yugo-Croat for me the snake and poison is the same!
For me Yugoslav or Ustasha is the same.
“Faith is not the issue there at all, but secular power.” The Moscow Patriarchate did not start it, did it? So, it must be about “secular power” only as far as one of the sides is concerned? Russian authorities also did not intervene, but Ukro authorities did, and how! And Russian Orthodox priests and staunch believers now face the prospect of matryrdom in Ukraine at the hands of the goons hired by the new-fangled church. This is nothing? A matter of secular power, not faith? I am unpleasantly surprised, and read no further.
Indeed. Mr. Marko Radosavljevic, formerly bishop and monk Artemije, he has been anathemized for causing schism, and it is not a matter of second instance of canonical court, and his interview is mostly political except when it suits him to say that he does not want to speak about politics (criticizing Serbian Presidents and Prime Ministers, retroactively suggesting what Serbian Government and Parliament should or should not have done of course is not politics!?!) . We pray that he wakes up and redeems his ways.
Also, Serbia is not doing so bad as people on this thread as well as Mr. Radosavljevic say.
“Also, Serbia is not doing so bad as people on this thread as well as Mr. Radosavljevic say.”
Care to explain? ad-hominem removed … mod
Look, given that the moderator had to clean up your language I suspect there is little value in trying to convince you, by answering your request for explanation why Serbia is not as bad as a sour leader of a schismatic sect tries to paint it.
But for the benefit of other people who read this, and maybe even Saker team I will try to clarify a little.
I do not understand the rationale of publishing Radosavljevic’s interview here, and especially in calling him Artemije the bishop of “Serbian Orthodox Church in Exile.”
He has been in a position of power in the Church for a very long time and that is often very dangerous for monks as it is in opposition of their calling. He has been demoted for alleged corruption and financial crime, of which unfortunately no church is immune. However, as a consequence he created the first schism in Serbia in the history of Serbian Orthodox Church and intentionally drove with him hundreds of souls. For this he was anathemized and expelled from the Church, unlike one of his victims, former Abbot of Crna Reka, who was only demoted.
Serbian Church in Exile is a schismatic sect created for the sole purpose to allow Radosavljevic to continue pretending to be a bishop, and it is an unheard of scandal. Keep in mind, there is no inquisition directed at him, he is allowed to do more or less whatever he wants, has never been molested, neither him nor his followers, never imprisoned, or forbidden in his activities. He was just demoted and then excommunicated. Of course, he can pretend to be exiled from Kosovo, but nobody forbids him not to be in Raska, which is in Serbia proper. No, his monastery in Loznica close to Chachak, heartland of Serbia and in a diocese of Sumadija, which has their proper bishop.
Has Serbian Orthodox Church done the right thing? Ultimately, yes, but I suspect they could have handled the whole case with more “doigte” and probably manage to keep the unity. But, SOC is the rape victim here, we have to keep that in mind.
So, Saker, are you in lack of true enemies, so that you go after one of the last remaining righteous islands, Serbian Orthodox Church?
As for criticizing Serbia and SOC, it is very easy, and everybody does it without taking the time to see. So get in line with all the Serbia bashers, but do not be surprised to see who they are.
Thank you for answering. Mods are obviosly too censitive (for a reason!), I was just calling you out, becouse I was interested in your explanation.
In fact, I agree with you post, regarding the schismatic bishop, not something we needed in theese times when unity is so badly needed in our Church and our people.
But that was not my question. My queation is, how can you claim Serbia “is not doing so bad”? I know Church is still holding its gound, but Serbia (as a country) is under full control of the west. In what aspect is our country doing ok? It is constant degradation of basic human values, we are beeing sloughtered spiritualy and culturaly.
With regards
I am glad I was wrong about namecalling and I am glad you share my view of the schismatic sect.
Regarding Serbia, I think it is a little too hasty to say that it is in full control of the west. Serbian Government has not recognized Kosovo. The Government sponsored welcome to Putin last week was not necessarily to the taste of the west. etc. etc.
It is very easy to be negative, dismissive, disheartened and desperate, but we are Christians, it is unworthy of us.
If you look Serbian history n the last 50, 100, 150, 200, 300, 600 years, you will rarely find a better period for Serbia than today. So please keep the perspective., reason and faith. By far not everything is bad.
If you look Serbian history n the last 50, 100, 150, 200, 300, 600 years, you will rarely find a better period for Serbia than today.
QED for the real motives of your illiterate comments about Bishop Artemjie…
The Saker
Didn’t the trouble with the schism start with Joe Biden’s visit to Decani in 2009? What exactly is the SOCs official position vis-a-vis Biden, Thaci, Albright, Camp Bondsteel?
“If you look Serbian history n the last 50, 100, 150, 200, 300, 600 years, you will rarely find a better period for Serbia than today.”
I fully disagree. A challenge we are facing today is nothing we were ever faced within our history.
This is it. Either we accept the western degenerate values, or we will be dealt with in most unpleasent ways.
The US saw Bishop Artemjie as a political opponent, they demanded his removal, and the Patriarchate complied.
This is a total violation of every principle of traditional Orthodox ecclesiology and a typical example of what a clerical kangaroo court subservient to the secular powers would do.
As for this sentence: “So, Saker, are you in lack of true enemies, so that you go after one of the last remaining righteous islands, Serbian Orthodox Church?”
It clearly shows the purely POLITICAL nature of this entire issue.
As for calling me a “Serbia basher”, that is a first and I will write that down along all the other idiotic ad hominems I have been honored by including: Marxist, monarchist, crypto-Muslim, CIA agent, Mossad agent, Putin agent, Fascist, Nazi, anti-Semite, Jew-lover, etc. etc. etc.
And, just for the record for dummies who assume that everything I post I agree with:
The questions were indeed mine. That’s it. The title of the interview was by Karganovic, not me, and I don’t endorse the replies or, for that matter, anything or everything Bishop Artemjie says or does. All I know for sure is that his removal was a US demand. That and the fact that all the Empire-serving “officialdom” rejoiced at his completely illegal (in terms of canon law) removal from office. And since he was from Kosovo, that is one more reason, in my opinion, to listen to what he has to say and then reach your own conclusions.
FWIW – my own bishops are not even in communion with him, so it’s not like I have any personal stake in this.
I will say that Serbian politics is always so nasty that it does make the USA or Russia looks like peaceful and gentle political scenes in comparison.
I am done with arguing against ignorant, ideological and, frankly, not too bright commentators.
The Saker
Indeed. Mr. Marko Radosavljevic, formerly bishop and monk Artemije, he has been anathemized for causing schism
That sentence alone shows that you know nothing about Orthodox canon law or, for that matter, even basic concepts like what an “anathema” means.
I recommend that you refrain from ridiculing yourself, even anonymously, by posting comments about a topic you clear have no understanding of.
The Saker
This is a rather difficult topic for me. I stand behind every single word Bishop (may God forgive me) Artemije said in that interwiew. Every single word. He IS testifying. But why alone? He could have done it inside of the Church, not outside of it. He was our woice in Kosovo, in 1999 he served our nation proudly in Kosovo war. I respect him and I support him and pray for him. But why, why outside of the Church. After 800 years, he decided to go alone. He is a christian, but I am too! We are equal in front of God. So I must, as a christian, challenge his decision.
Thank you so much Saker for this beautiful interview !
It really came as surprise to me that I would find article on Bishop Artemije in some foreign anglophone outlet.
I had honor to personally meet Bishop Artemije and spend some time with him.
It was years before he became Bishop.
In monastery “Crna Reka” (Black River) in region called Rashka…
We Orthodox Serbs are lucky to have him in this extremely difficult times.
In my eyes Bishop Artemije is pillar of Serb Orthodoxy that rises straight up to the Heaven.
A true “spiritual child of Saint Justin Popovich” indeed.
He is one of not so many important Serb personalities that didn’t betray his convictions and his people.
Again thank you so much, for showing such subtle sensibility. For the problems of one small nation, attacked by many enemies.
jako
Let me ask you a very simple ye crucial question:
How is that which the Ukronazis will probably do (future tense, not happened yet) different from what the MP already did to all the branches of the Catacomb Church in the 1990s when it used the OMON to seize churches and kick out priest and flock?
By the way, during the same years the MP also used its contacts with foreign government to seize ROCA churches all over the world.
And I won’t even bother comparing what the Ukies might do next to what the MP did to all the branches of the Catacomb Church during the Soviet era, when millions were persecuted while the MP accused them of being traitors, schismatics, enemies of the people, etc. etc. etc.
I am absolutely outraged by what the Ukies are doing, and my heart goes out to those MP clerics and faithful who will suffer the ugly repression of the Ukronazis.
But in my heart, a victim is a victim regardless of her allegiance and I refuse to pretend like the MP is some kind of white, fluffy innocent lamb. The sad truth is that the MP did to others what is being done to it now.
Finally, I assure you that the MP is just as much a tool of the Russian state as the the newly created Ukie-pseudo-Orthodox pseudo-Church is a tool of the Kiev junta. The only difference being that Russia is blessed to have a true patriot as a ruler and not a corrupt Neonazi alcoholic (we had that in the 1990s already).
This is all very sad, but willful ignorance is not a Christian virtue. We *must* know the Truth as only it can make us free.
The Saker
Nothing untrue in what is said. However, it is not hopeles. the change will come from Serbian youth, kids born 1990 and later, who do not remeber wars or ‘how good it was in former Yugoslavia’. They see what we cannot see, and are definitively smarter that us (their parents and grandparents). they can act, because thay have much less material stuff to loose than we did.
In spite of all these gloomy things, Serbia is still capable of producing extraordinary minds and spirits. From mathematicians to musicians, there is a flood of talents and hard work. Older generations (my generation, post baby boom, born 1960 and later) who still remember how it was ‘before’ are leaving the scene, slowly but surely. A wave of new kids is coming, who do not have nostalgia, unhealthy nostalgia in this case. For them there is no past, only future exists, the future they will shape. Forces entrenched in positions today, oligarchs and politicians will be pushed aside, or will dissolve. Many of us will be surprised when things start rolling. let’s just hope it is things that roll, not heads.
First we had color revolutions, which were fake. It seems that wave or various colour jackets is coming. When people in Canada and USA would ask what we as immigrants think about their future, based on what we see, my favourite answer was “If you continue like this, you will get a revolution. But not like Soviet revolution. It will rather be like French one….”. When kids ask about future, I say “One day you will wake up and put us all against a wall and shoot use, because we screwed up your future”
Youth will resolve everything.
Of the two commenters going by Anonymous, the one who refers to Bishop Artemije as Mr. Radosavljevic and who perceives the situation in Serbia as better tan at any time in the last 600 years, it is clear that he is a shill for the Vuchic government. As, evidently, a secular man he claims that this is the first schism in the SOC. Given that he is writing for the government, which is by and large ignorant of the life and history of the SOC, he should ask his handlers to hand him the files on the two schisms since the WWII (the establishment of the Macedonian Orthodox Church, and the schism in the West started by the Serbian Bishop Dionisie in the US.)
Defending the Church and Bishop Artemije before him is akin to preaching a sermon to an earthquake.
Belisarius
@ Belisarius
Anonymous is typical Tito’s fanatic who later on switched to Milosevic and today to Vucic cult.
Those are same type of leaders for the same type of sheep.
All those leaders have one thing in common
And that is not to have best interest of Serbia and Serbs at heart.
He may very well be that. However, comparing Vucic to Milosevic and Tito is oversimplifying it at the expense of the latter two.
Belisarius
Hi Belisarius. How do you, or specifically the SOC, justify calling the MOC – Macedonian Orthodox Church, “schismatic” when the SOC and the likes of Artemije ( whose comments regarding Macedonians I have read and will withold my opinion on him, suffice to say they are far from what a spiritual leader should be saying about a neighbouring people/church ), when the SOC has installed Zoran Vranishkovski and the so-called OPC ( Ohridska Pravoslavna Crkva ) in Macedonia? Vranishkovski – whom I have firsthand accounts of from trusted friends – is truly a Godless soul, and a ‘schismatic’ if ever there was one ( promoting schism, conflict discord…). The arrogant Vranishkovski is widely hated in Macedonia and is known for his negation, hatred, denial of everything Macedonian, while trumpeting Greek and Serbian views.
More specifically, what is the solution where the MOC is concerned according to the SPC? This has already moved out of spiritual territory and is definitely a political move, which shows that religous groups, in this case, the SPC is quite amenable to assisting the US/NATO in dissolution of Macedonian identity and state. Vranishkovski has been supported by the US and EU in his every move, which puts the SOC in cahoots with the very people they claim to be waging “the good fight” against.
Dimitar,
You, evidently, have an agenda and populist notions about the Church. This is not the place to discuss that, but, even if it were you display enough ignorance that i decline to waste my time.
Belisarius
“Youth will resolve everything.”
When I was young, I was running the streets of Belgrade, destroying what little remained of our soveregnity, thinking I was fighting for it.
Youth brings energy, but also stupidity. So nothing can be solved by youth alone.
All Russia, Former Yugoslavia, Iraq and after Libya and Syria, and more, are in the chopping block of Globalism as a part of a big agenda for NWO.
The overnight changes during 1990 in Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary brought the collapse of the Communism, and opens the way for privatization and looting the Nations by the corporate.
To explain in details needs to write many books, but just as an example:
End of communism in Hungary (1989)
“Decades before the Round Table Talks, political and economic forces within Hungary put pressure on Hungarian communism. These pressures contributed to the fall of communism in Hungary in 1989”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_communism_in_Hungary_(1989)
Everything was planed ahead since 1973, but it is very complicated and hard to understand.
Reading on 1994 the book of Gary Kah “En Route to Global Occupation”, gave me an idea where, and for what to look.
“Tragically reality that is always brought by the US/UK Deep States to European, once sovereign, countries. If possible the negative, deadly realities they bring, it is possible every global nation will be forced into abject obedience to the US/UK in effect erasing each one.”
It is interviews (and articles) like this that make the Vineyard such a rare treasure.
Thank You, Saker and mods/helpers/supporters !