By Ramin Mazaheri for the Saker Blog
As I wrote in my previous article on this issue – the total Western failure of Russia’s “denazification” justification for its armed operation in Ukraine – Russia will lose the battle for Western hearts and minds if it fails to introduce new discussions and prolonged, patient debates about what “Nazi” means in 2022.
Some point out that Russia doesn’t have to convince anyone of anything. Sure, that’s sovereignty… but this only holds true inside of Russia.
What about in Ukraine – they don’t need to understand that they have a problem? Ukraine only needs to obey Russian force of arms and not Russian force of logic?
What about India, China, Cuba, Iran and half of Africa? All those countries which abstained in the United Nations vote on Russia’s operation: they, too, only need to obey Russian force of arms? That definitely won’t work, sorry.
What about the history books? Posterity, also, is no matter? One is either with Russia or against Russia, and thus a Nazi sympathiser who cannot be rehabilitated. Taking an intellectual page from George W. Bush would be a major downgrade in Russian diplomatic skills.
For these obvious reasons – and others in the previous article – the biggest failure of the Russian campaign is ignored at one’s own peril.
I wrote about “Nalis” – Nationalist Liberalists – in 2014, and I still like it. It combines the racism of nationalism with all the hidden oligarchy & baked-in inequality of Western Liberalism. It’s the most accurate description I have seen of the far-right paramilitaries in Ukraine, whose socialism I have not yet been presented any evidence of.
“Socialism” – there’s a term few care about explaining, either. Tarnish it anyhow you like, eh?
Socialism is not the problem in the Russia-Ukraine conflict – the problem is “Liberalism”.
As difficult as it is to get Westerners, and some Russians, to talk accurately about “Nazi” getting people to talk accurately about “Liberalism” is almost as difficult. It’s less emotional, but it requires more intellect because it requires more history: Liberalism (begun 1789) is 140 years older than Nazism, after all.
Because many right-wingers may assume “Nali” is a compliment, let’s just focus on moving past “Nazi”.
I asked in the previous article for ideas other than “denazification” and the best I found was from seemingly a Muslim poster – perhaps she understands the belligerent aspects of the Western mentality better than many Russians assume they do? She suggested “Elimination of European Terrorism’ or even ‘De-Terrorization” – either would have given Westerners pause, at least unlike “denazification”, which they received incredulously: “terrorism” has been their own justification for 20+ years. However, “terrorism” is violence committed for a political end – it doesn’t actually say anything about the actual politics at play. I like her former suggestion, and it would certainly be understood by a billion Muslims and other intelligent people, but I wonder how many Russians consider themselves “European” – many at the Kremlin probably won’t want to use it. China could use this term in the future, but I just don’t think “terrorism” is an honest word, but a fear-mongering one.
In this effort to increase understanding and diplomacy, and to get beyond the inaccurate, hyperbolic and counter-effective use of “Nazi” as regards Ukraine, may I suggest:
3rd-gen Nazis.
In a complete sentence: “It’s a denazification campaign to stop 3rd-generation Nazis, in order to prevent a 4th Reich anywhere.”
A propaganda campaign based around that sentence applied patiently and consistently, has all the elements to explain why Russia got involved in the “2014 Ukrainian Civil War” far, far better “denazification” has.
“Nazism”, “Liberalism” and now “propaganda” – which is not a disinformation campaign but a campaign in order to promote or publicize a particular political cause… I’m using so many unclear political terms!
(And yet everybody grasped “PR campaign”, eh? Fewer pica points than “propaganda” for the headline, too, but these are journalistic concerns.)
‘3rd-gen Nazis’ gives us a new plateau with which to view the ideology of Nazism
One should be able to tell from my suggested sentence: It implicitly moves us past “neo-Nazis”. We need to. We need to introduce some 21st-century relevance and intelligence regarding “Nazis”, finally!
Saying that Nazism hasn’t changed over the generations is like saying socialism, liberalism, Christianity or any other ideology hasn’t changed. It’s always “the same old Nazism”? No update necessary? Not even when generations of Nazis have come and gone, with varying levels of nefarious success?
The 1st generation of Nazis: The era of Hitler and his survivors. Those of this generation in West Germany who weren’t killed became protected by the West and partially took power, both formally and informally. Is that too controversial? To Anglophones, only. Everyone else rolls their eyes at fictions like “the Anglos beat the Nazis” and “the Anglos would never, ever work with the Nazis postwar”. This is the elderly generation.
The 2nd generation of Nazis: The European generation which includes the postwar baby boom up to around 1975. European social history, I have learned after 13 years on the ground here, is best divided into the who came of age pre- and post-Berlin Wall toppling. This 2nd generation is the middle-aged generation. It’s archetype is not the Nazi soldier but the typical “neo-nazi” – the late 1970s-influenced punk skinhead.
The 3rd generation of Nazis: We have moved past “neo-Nazi”, because “neo-Nazis” have changed; because we must mark this change; because there will be a fourth generation of Nazis if they are not openly opposed – in all ways, including in thought – better than they have recently been opposed. This generation is the generation who came of age post-Berlin wall – the youngest generation staffing the Azov Battalion.
The implication of “3rd-gen Nazi” should be clear: to remind that “Nazi” is a legacy which has been passed down from generation to generation, that this political ideology still exists in 2022, that this has translated into 14,000 deaths since 2014 in Eastern Ukraine alone so far, and that it has been given unprecedented Western protection. There was no American money, arms and CIA training for the Nazis like there was for the Azov Battalion – the West did not use arms to push Hitler to power in the Beer Hall Putsch of 1923. If they had been it might have succeeded, like how Western arms and money helped the Maidan Uprising succeed in 2014.
Things change – we must mark these changes with new ideas. Political education campaigns cannot remain stuck in 1940 or else they are certain to fail to reach the youth classes, at the very least.
Who resists such changes to terminology and changes in conceptual thinking the most? Hint – Mao knew this: The elderly class. The foolish among them do not seek to update their view of the world, unlike the younger classes who simply have no choice but to try and make sense of things today. This is why Western elders probably at least paused with “denazification”, but the phrase clearly didn’t work for many young people.
Too grumpy to deal with this? Interrupting the flag-waving? Well, I have some sad news to relate: racism is not going away as easily as we had all hoped after 1945. Therefore, we must talk about the differences in racism between generations – the racism around African slavery is not the same as the racism of 2022, and it is only the people who don’t read columns like this who think it’s truly all that simple.
Allow me to introduce a fourth political term which has no accurate conception in modern Western politics: The West and Russia both need a Cultural Revolution in how “Nazi” is discussed. Because Nazism is a serious threat – because some do really want a Fourth Reich in the West – and because Russia needs something better than merely this “denazification” campaign. They already had one of those, anyway – it occurred after World War II. It would be more accurate to have called this failed intellectual campaign “re-denazification” – that would have done better, truly! Westerners would have had to at least pause and say – “Oh yeah, I guess racism didn’t actually go away after 1945? Re-denazify – I kind of get it. Now can I super-size my fries?”
In my new book on the Yellow Vests, in a chapter called “Where the West is stuck: The fascism of the 1930s and the ‘fascism’ of the 2020s” I discuss these very issues because historical misunderstanding is so very pervasive that I was forced to address it in a book about the 21st century Yellow Vests.. Briefly: My bringing up the failure of “denazification” has been deemed, quite unfairly, as a way for me to sell books. Books which I am giving away for free… by discussing an issue (Nalis) I have written about since 2014… during a period in which the book release was entirely planned to coincide with France’s current presidential election and not a conflict in Ukraine for which I had no foreknowledge…. This is the same knee-jerk logic which refuses to even consider the scope of the “denazification” propaganda campaign failure and merely shouts “tanks to ramming speed!”
In many ways, it’s good that Russia brought these historical misunderstandings back to the forefront: Truly, it’s been impossible to talk about modern Western history due to the taboos and absurdities and falsehoods surrounding “Nazi”! I just hope they aren’t making it worse….
Socialist Democracy doesn’t fear honest discussions about German National Socialism – Western Liberal Democracy does
There needs to be new discussions – whether you join them or not – on terms like “Nazi”, “liberalism” and the way European fascism came to power via an open rejection and denigration of Western Liberal Democracy.
Western Liberal Democracy split from absolute monarchy in 1789, immediately failed when first applied in France in 1848, was re-installed in France at the point of a gun in 1871 by Bismarck and the colluding French 1%, which subsequently produced what I call the “Great War to Forestall Socialism” in 1914 and which then produced the economic failure that everyone calls the “Great Depression”.
Thus the rise of Nazism is unexplainable – unexplainable like “denazification”! – without admitting fascism’s successful, popular condemnation of Western Liberal Democracy. WLD-ers in the West and even Putin himself will never admit this because it would be to cede ground to an actual political rival: Socialist Democracy.
(Contrarily, the Azov Battalion came to power via Western billions, shooting both sides at Maidan Square and without any motivating political ideas other than anti-Russianism. Lumping these groups together without differentiation – facile, absurd, what a mistake and what an assist to awful Western Liberal Democracy!)
This successful condemnation is why it’s simply inaccurate and absurd to say things like the “Nazis had no socialism”. To do so is tremendously counterproductive and actually hurts Socialism more than merely explaining Nazism’s relationship with socialism – we cannot understand Western political history if we relinquish the incredibly necessary criticism of Western Liberal Democracy and Capitalism With Western Characteristics as logically implied by fascism’s rise.
Hitler, reader of Marx, summed it up himself in 1922: Without the “essential principle” – race – Nazism “would really do nothing more than compete with Marxism on its own ground”.
Why should socialists fear admitting this? If they do it’s probably because they seek the approval of Western Liberal Democrats – talk about a waste of time….
Because by including race – this is… not really socialism, but something different.
Or when Hitler rejected the class struggle, vital to socialism, by saying: “There are no such things as classes: They cannot be. Class means caste and caste means race.” Well, Nazism may include some Marxist analyses but this is… not really socialism, but something different.
Making an alliance with corporate powers, instead of appropriating from the greedy expropriators… this is not really socialism, either.
But the rejection of Western Liberal Democracy – due to its decades of failures by an oligarchical leadership barely different from monarchy – that is the same as socialism. But the rejection of Western Liberal Democratic economics – due to the decades of failures by free market capitalism (i.e. the economic component of liberalism) – that is the same as socialism.
So it can’t be stressed enough: Socialism has nothing to fear from free, honest, patient examination of the Nazis relationship with socialism.
However, Western Liberal Democracy has much to fear regarding true discussions of their relationship with the Nazis. They, over and over, allied with fascism again socialism in the 1930s; they colluded with the Nazis after 1945; they encouraged 3rd-gen Nazis in places like Ukraine in the 21st century. See the progression and need for new terms like “3rd-gen Nazis”.
Socialists WANT to discuss Nazism – it’s Western Liberal Democrats who have to obscure, falsify and lie, just like they are doing in the causes of the Ukraine conflict.
Nobody appeased Hitler more than Western Liberal Democrats, and they leaped to their feet when he said things like: “I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.” Truly, Hitler has been allowed to do that even up until 2022, but only by Western Liberal Democrats from Washington to Moscow. And these same “democrats” kept listening when Hitler continued: “Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution.”
So it should be clear: I’m not worried about discussing to the nth degree the true amount of “socialism” in Germanic National Socialism.
What Western socialists must stress is not how we need to “re-denazify”, but how things have changed:
Nazism used to be as opposed to socialism as it was to Western Liberalism. In a reversal of this – and despite other similarities between Nazis and the Azov Battalion – Nazism TODAY is as opposed to socialism as it is ALLIED with Western Liberalism.
This is not complicated, but there has been a change. There’s vital historical realities from the 1930s to discuss and demystify. The USSR and socialism stands on the right side against 1st-gen Nazism – don’t cede the ground to Western Liberal Democrats and play their game. Make them play your game, which is honesty, accuracy, progression and not regression.
I hope this article was as helpful and provoking of necessary discussion as the first article.
I think that once people get over the shock that “denazification” hasn’t worked, then they will realise that what I wrote there and here was true:
Double-down on “denazify” if you want but you will still have to patiently, methodically explain what you mean because many have not understood this unexpected and antiquated term from 80 years ago.
So the problem continues: Historical distortion, obfuscation and wilful denial of what “Nazism” was, is, and might still curdle into being. And “Liberalism” – well that’s even worse! Don’t get me started on “neoliberalism”. And what’s all this nonsense about “Cultural Revolutions” being bad? And you know “propaganda “isn’t just used in ad campaigns – it has a serious political basis!
And once we solve these, then we can use “Nalis”.
Ramin Mazaheri is the chief correspondent in Paris for PressTV and has lived in France since 2009. He has been a daily newspaper reporter in the US, and has reported from Iran, Cuba, Egypt, Tunisia, South Korea and elsewhere. His new book is called ‘France’s Yellow Vests: Western Repression of the West’s Best Values’. He is the author of ‘Socialism’s Ignored Success: Iranian Islamic Socialism’ as well as ‘I’ll Ruin Everything You Are: Ending Western Propaganda on Red China’, which is also available in simplified and traditional Chinese.
Nobody can overcome media propaganda today, no matter their methods. Best to stick to first principles and communicate those. Correct the record when it’s wrong. Wait for the smart ones to get it.
Exactly.
Labeling is a basic tool of propaganda. Thus ‘liberal’ (adj. favoring reform, open to new ideas, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; not bound by traditional thinking; broad-minded. synonym: broad-minded) is now a political slur as well as a name for fascism (neo-liberalism).
Neoliberal and neoconservative are two branches of the same tree, and the labels are just for manipulation of perception.
Accordingly the basic term “nazi” is the most direct communication. Putting finer divisions on it (3rd gen., Banderism, etc.) is word salad and just confuses the issue.
seer
Correct. Over here where I live we have a saying: “Finish what you started”.
I have to reiterate once more what I wrote before. Russia did not suffer a PR disaster, for the simple reason it never waged a media war with the West. What was Russia supposed to have done in NATO countries, where the elites have total control over the media ? Answer: Nothing. All the West did was prevent Russian narratives coming in and presenting their own, fake, ones. What about the Western PR initiative in Russia ? Did the West, perhaps, suffer a PR disaster in Russia, as it did ? Some Western media fools even went to far to hope that the Russian people would rise against Putin. What they got was mass support for him, as shown during that rally in Moscow a few days ago.
Dear Ramin Mazaheri
The NAZI thing all boils down to one thing:
Either you accept people being forced into unified lockstep’s, or you accept their right to individual thoughts and freedom.
You can write articles after articles about what you think we should call the “New” Phenomenon but it doesn’t change the logic behind the resurgence of Nazism.
Ramin forget it, you will not get a Nobel Prize for inventing a new name for a known temporary insanity.
There is nothing new under the sun regarding NAZIsm. It is still evil perpetrated by a clique against every individual.
The current NAZI war propaganda hailed by the West will fissile out by itself, even without Russian counter propaganda, because the whole NAZI doctrine is an actual threat to every individual human being.
The west and the whole world did not accept the NAZI lockstep back in WWII.
And today neither the west nor the Globe will accept a new NAZI lockstep.
Now move on to another subject, please.
A. Dane writes ( Nonchalantly that is):”Now move on to another subject, please.”
Well, hold your horses Dane! Would you?
If anything propaganda is a matter of perception, which is not necessarily a question regarding the truth. One could say, that it is rather a matter of, what people hear and not what is being said. I have 3 words for you: “911”, “remember the maine” and “never again” and “Saddam, Saddam and Saddam” or at least a “Charlie”! Now compare that with “Denazification”. It is a no brainer after, and when it is pointed out!
Obviously the Russians have failed the propaganda agenda of this was regardless of the enormity propaganda machinery of the rest of the west in the service of the ukrainians . Who would have thought that western freedom loving liberal politicians would stand in line to defend a system whos backbone is comprised of nazis and even be able to take the moral high ground, while doing it! Even “Never again” accompanied with a mixture of new and old footages of nazis in germany and ukraine would have done miracles for the Russian image in this war. It would have made it easier for the rest of the wests population to identify with the Russians and it would have made it harder for the rest of the wests politicians to stand in solidarity with the nazi ukrainians! But from the looks of it, I doubt, they even spent a minute contemplating the impact of the propaganda aspect of the war, because if they had, some smart Russian would have suggested something better, that what they got.
Unfortunately the Russians have not been able to present a face of the enemy, that the good and peace loving western liberal population could hate while feeling good about it either. As luck would have it they got a homoloving dancing comedian instead of a Saddam Saddam Saddam! Not that it had to be Saddam, the point is that the rest of the west spends years searching for their new “Charlie” or “Saddam”, and they send armies of their journalists in advance to prepare the ground for their soldiers.
To make a long story short, the Russians have done a pisspoor job connecting emotionally and logically with the rest of the west populations. But it is not too late. Just look at the propaganda from Iran regarding the destruction of the mossad nest in Erbil in Iraq. That was horrifyingly bad!
Russian yackety yack yack yack, almost like, why expel so much warm air to a room full of non listeners? Repeatedly. The Mr Lavrov Method?
Words are dry and turn to dust as soon as expelled, in the diplopolyp arena. Ever heard of the image of the beast? West suxxx dirty pics from teet and spend the rest of their perpetual 2yr old toddler life weening on pixxx too. Words, nope, pictures, instant hard grat. This is how retarded west is now. Get with the west beast vibe man.
Attrocity porn in the face. Bring the mini projector and use a wall. What, for being unruly in class teacher Anthill Gut-tear will scold Lavrov and send him to his principal principle, WEF woofers for up braiding?
Loosen up Chattyman, project out the war porn, like even onto the faces of the damned, like at the UN. Man. Beasts ‘think’ in images. All their FaceTime with Mike teevee is about studio edits as byte size banality to juice up the gang for a lynchmob bruhahah. They don’t listen, ever. Look and feel r us! You don’t exist to them. Your shadow is zero but an impediment to be removed. You are the Overburden to be scraped away, to get to what west polyp’s rules are all about.
Is Russian ministry of propaganda image deficient, issit? Pics are on the webby, in some pdf docs, on State box, but do the bigrovs and topskis ever bring it into a hard core meeting with hyenas who only ever come to tear strips off Russia?
The card deck of west is pulling the next Ace out, it’s famine. Brains deficit = grains deficit + whatever it takes to mass destroy both meats and veg.
Evil doesn’t get ended for all time inside uke. Rev. 6:8 remember, Thy Will be done. Beasts must die off.
I agree that Russia should have done and should do more in the international informational/communicational space.
However, redefining definitions of what is actually taking place in order to suit Western ideology or Western terminology and their definitions of -isms is going too far.
Actually, this article is too much bogged down in definitions, terminologies and -isms in a time where the world is too messed up dealing with huge changes.
The world is quickly being being redefined, and Russia has to allocate its time and resources on the things they can control !
Mazaheri:
– that “Nazi” is a legacy which has been passed down from generation to generation, that this political ideology still exists in 2022,
For Mazaheri “nazism” is an ideology – exactly as we learn in school. We are told in school”nazism” is racism and believing one is a better race
For Mazaheri nazism is an ideology born 1920 in Germany.
Actually, “nazism” was formulated 1871 in Albert Pikes letter.
Ragarding the perception of nazism = racism of Ramin Mazaheri – and teaching books:
Henia Bryer is a holocaust survivor from Auschwitz and other work camps.
Her best friends were among the guards (not racist at all then).
She did not see any killing of workers, but she naively assumed rumours about gassing in the showers was true
“kjell108 on March 21, 2022 · at 11:09 am EST/EDT”
Perception management is subjected to perception management and hence Mr. Bernais is believe to signify “The Gold Standard” in perception management by many.
However some others recognise Mr. Stangl and his associates as being “The Gold Standard” in perception management in their successful restructuring of Treblinka to facilitate the throughput of circa 900,000 dead in a period of circa 10 months “production” in the period from mid 1942 to 1943.
Such methods were incorporated in the training of operatives at Trawniki and elsewhere, “The United States of America” gaining access to files of documents sometimes designated as “The Trawniki Papers” through their wartime/post-war associations with the rebranded SD , which in large part were incorporated in “The Jakarta method” which described techniques of how to destroy approximately 1 million (1,000,000 ) “overseas Chinese” in Indonesia primarily during 1965.
It was also part of the curriculum of “The School of the Americas” rolled out primarily, but not exclusively, through Latin America.
I get it! Semantics. So if I explain it’s not Nazis, but 3rd gen Nazis, Americans will be like…. Ah ha!!! I get it now! They are fighting Nazis Grandchildren who were raised to hate. I seriously doubt it. The information is already out there, has been out there. The information flows should make one question who is controlling your information. The US made daily shelling of Donbass disappear for 8 years. Nobody in the West cared. They wrote about Azov, Aidar Nazis themselves. Then they put it down the memory hole, burnt that info. There are no Nazis in Ukraine, they now say. Well, luckily there are plenty of evidence for anyone willing.
For the past 8 years, my coworkers would ask me things about this. I tell them, see this torch march reminiscent of Nazis Germany? See that face on the Blood and Soil Flag. Go research Stepan Bandera. How many did that? 0… They keep coming to me asking about it, yet no one ever read who he is. That’s the level of Western Education. They just take their spoon feeding from the TV. This type of person will never get the Nazis problem because their led by Western government information. That’s all there is to it.
I prefer Russia to keep telling the truth and follow the path of sovereignty. I love reading Ramin works, but I don’t agree with this at all. And problem within Russia itself? There is none! Most understand it. Those that leach off the West packed up and left. Is that really a loss for Russia? News articles like Sobchak leaving. Or rapper T-Fest saying he is leaving. I don’t think anybody really cares what these vain, narcissistic “artists” think or do.
The problem is these people film their children cheering about cutting heads off of Russians. The rest of Ukrainians have been hostage to this for 8 years. US has been funding it since the 50’s. It stops when other powers stop encouraging it. If not, it is a crop that will always be harvested. Truth only makes it to ears that are open. Are Banderist ears open to logic? Americans wish their ears to be open to logic, but they are in a pool of lies.
I definitely agree discussion is vital. Unfortunately, we haven’t stopped Eastward expansion of NATO, haven’t stopped wars across the middle East, nor improved anything that the power holders choose to do. It would be great if more people understood their situation like those in Iran did. People only have power if they understand that they have it and unite together. That’s why Western Liberal ideology is dividing people in to smaller and smaller categories and social identities. These may feel empowering, but they are created to create more problems and more divisions. Kind of like nuclear fission!
Бог с вами!
(sorry for negativity)
My impression – which might be entirely wrong – is that these are Jewish, CIA and state sponsored groups whose purpose is to raise hatred of Russians using both ideology and violence. So it’s not so much ‘white nationalism’ as ‘anti-Russian Ukrainian nationalism’ which means it all boils down to being anti-Russian. Given the high percentage of Russian speakers in Ukraine they have many targets.
I also wonder if the term ‘de-Nazification’ doesn’t work quite well for Russians who suffered over 25,000,000 killed by the Nazi invasion. These extremists in Ukraine use Nazi-like salutes and Nazi-like symbols and want anti-Russian Nazi like results. It would be hard to find a better term, I suspect, that sums it all up so simply and with such immediate, visceral impact.
“My impression – which might be entirely wrong – is that these are Jewish, CIA and state sponsored groups whose purpose is to raise hatred of Russians using both ideology and violence. So it’s not so much ‘white nationalism’ as ‘anti-Russian Ukrainian nationalism’”
Exactly. The US/Israeli/NWO cabal are primarily “button pushers” they will use *any* ideology left or right, any sentiment or grievance to create ad hoc groups to attack those designated as the enemy–in this case Russia, the only significant force resisting them.
Yes trying to get the average person to understand ashkenazi are in charge of wanna be nazis is a mind block. They only know to think antisemetism as a reply. Shows how decades of media control can influence reality. The charlottsville meeting under trump “unite the right” showed nearly every group attending there was ashkenazi led. Coincidence? unlikely cohencidence ? In a nation totally subverted by another nothing is by chance anymore
“That is why liberal ideology is dividing people into smaller and smaller groups”. That is it in a nut shell the right and the left in the US are doing this, I have been watching this for years. I have been horrified at the hate in the US that comes from the top and filters down until we have become the Nazis. We just are to divided to march together with our hate but the hate comes every time big brother tells us to hate! Kim, Ho Chi, Sukarno Mao and on and on. Always with the propaganda always with the hate. Americans never learn from their past they just ramp up the hate again.
@Susan
The original left loved to be activists and help people. That’s their basis that motivates them. Unfortunately, they are manipulated. Now their is now true liberal Democrat left in the mainstream. They took all the people who just fought for worker’s rights away. Now attention is focused onto problems they have no power over unless by lining up behind the Corrupt leadership.
The only way forward for Americans is to see each other as Americans. I have talked a few people on the left fringes to come back to the center. The right is the same side of the coin as the left. Yes, they always support each other. That’s why US foreign policy is like a freight train on the tracks regardless of who is president.
There are no longer the anti-war groups that used to exist. Yeah, learning hate the threats the media tells to hate is exactly what happens. The rest of the unspoken for, just shake their head in the silence casted over them as they are disconnected from the conversation through “Canceling”.
@Scorpion, Albertus
Yes, there is a Zionist and Ukro-Fascist problem. I can’t find it right now, but one of the founders of the Nazis battalions was an Israeli/Ukrainian national. Had a Blood and soil flag with a Star of David in the middle of it. I would say it is dangerous to say it is a Jewish thing. Zionism is like the same thing which is hard for some to understand. Yes, Western “Ukrainians” enthusiastically took part in the holocaust. Now Zionists are there as many Europeans and Americans embedded with these Nationalist battalions. Israel spat at Zelenskij for him trying to compare their plight to the holocaust. These are criminals who taint who ever they are with. They got support because they played the role of a cat’s paw to Russia.
Russia doesn’t need to win any minds or hearts from anyone. It is the objective truth that they didn’t start this.
Russia needs to win the hearts and minds of Ukrainians, and they are trying very hard to do this. The neonazis are helping by looting, murdering civilains, and destroying their own cities and infrastructure.
Denazification of Ukraine does not mean that all Ukrainians are “Nazi” but what about Jarosch and his followers. And I repeat the Wehrmacht was partly welcomed in Ukraine.
But beyond the intellectual battlefield of justifications. The real battlefield will prove which argument will be stronger. God (Allah) will always be with the strongest (in the long run).
And everyone who sides with Russia can use his own head to justify the war. Whether “onward Christian soldiers” or “Proletarians of all countries unite” or the “friends of Kadyrow” and “Allahu akbar”.
I will write the same than in the previous article. Nobody in the West will have the opportunity to judge any term coming from Russia fairly.
I am from the West and I see it. The Western media only sold lies everyday during years. Now they are doing the same in a crazy level.
In other countries citizens are so so much under this propaganda (although western media have powerful leverage). They are able to see Azov photos. They are able to see discrimination against black, Chinese or Indian residents in Ukraine.
Governments know even better.
I understand your point, but Nazis are Nazis and should be called Nazis.
First Western Journalist In Russia & DPR Controlled Mariupol (Special Report)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6UzUMrEEXM&list=LL Dissemination of actual interview like are starting to come out will help more than semantics…
The Sun was crying that the 10mach nuke capable Kinshal missile might arrive in London in 5 minutes, and that there’s no defense against it. Well, I don’t mind hearing it arrive in Westminster. It would be a good payment for all the atrocities that rogue Britain had done to many countries in the world in the past few centuries. Britain had forgotten its an island…
“Fixing”
Lots of tourists passed through Russia during the 1990’s and subsequent, including “World famous marketers” in the Kremlin, whose name I have forgotten, aiding/fixing Mr. Yeltsin’s “election”, and the Russian economy on their days off, whilst donating a constitution in passing.
Try not being an “exceptionalist fixer” try to ponder – well they are not completely stupid so why did they choose to do that ?
Consider the observation of Mr. Stalin – the Bolsheviks learned to talk, but I learned to listen.
Thoughtful and smart, far too thoughtful and smart for these times I´m afraid, now people won´t ever try to use dialectics(too emotional and under-educated) and jump at any half-assed rhetoric that they feel(note that it´s all about feelings nowadays) represent their side.
I lament this but it is(I´d be ecstatic to be proven wrong).
Well written, Mr. Mazaheri.
Some time ago, about a year or two, at MoA the word “nazi” in terms of original meaning and usage was explored. I ought to have archived that discussion, and failed to…alas!
So, from memory, the term originally had no political meaning, but had a class and social meaning, essentially a moderately stupid lout and petty criminal bum who in a gang or group was easily manipulated by slogans and appeals to greed and prejudice. The social context was the German language scene of perhaps 1925. Obviously in the beginning the term was one of derision, pejorative.
I would welcome any refinement or addition or correction. German grammar would make it “Nazi”, but since then there are two sorts of nazi…the loutish and easily manipulated kind “slagwwortnazi” (spelling?) and then the political organization of some sophistication that utilized the bums> this organized sort being capitalized “Nazi” in order to avoid confusion.
@ newsfeed see “https://theduran.com/nazis-are-found-in-washington/”
To-day we see in curated and financed organized gangs (antififa and BLM), again, “slagwortnazis”, and in the trace of finance we see “Nazis”…many of whom are well-known public persons, who utilize the loutish crowds for nefarious criminal purposes. Big finance, now, as in the 1930’s, exploits these persons for occult political goals…and not very occult, either! Hidden in plain sight.
I myself see no objective reason to re-name these criminal gangs or their patrons. I do see a reason to make their organization and crimes public and bring them to trial, if possible. We might refer to them at this point as “cryptonazis”, except that the “crypto” mask is gone. Of course “media” tries with some success to glue the mask back.
Hint: If you have to write two overlong essays to explain your propaganda, your propaganda sucks.
Stop digging and try reading Ellul.
I find it amazing that some people can pontificate about Nazis, and yet apparently know nothing about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB0YAVF-eOI
Nazi (in training) in 1933
Nazi boss in 2022
The London Sun made that public in 2015 – nothing secret. More should be declassified.
People have a total fit when they see The Heilnesses , the current Monarch, King an’ all saluting, even when fully public now!
So if BoJo or Dublin, or Warsaw provide a Ukrainian Government-in-exile, just imagine the blow-back!
And remember the Blueshirts? :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueshirts#/media/File:O'Duffy_Blue_Shirt_Movement_fascist_salute.jpg
Chickens come home to roost!
P.S. Blueshirts are from aristocrat Count Kalergi’s movement, the Pan Europe recipe for the current EU. Any discussion omitting aristocracy is a fallacy of composition.
I’m with you Ramin. In any time and in any place, fascism identifies whatever alien, disgusting threat is needed by capitalism in that time and place when the latter can’t get what it wants via the ballot box. Today, capitalism wants Russia’s natural and primary economic resources. So for today’s fascists, Russia is the alien, disgusting threat. It’s simple: fascism is just capitalism with the gloves off. Remember the Ukrainian fascists who suddenly turned up in Hong Kong at the height of the riots there not so long ago? Whose interests were they serving? The Chinese are next on the capitalists’ list for fascism’s alien, disgusting threat treatment.
It doesn’t matter what Russia calls them. Anything they say will be either ridiculed, taken out of context, or censored.
Well Pope Bono has beatified St. Patrick Zelensky :
https://www.independent.ie/news/read-in-full-bono-likens-volodymyr-zelensky-to-st-patrick-in-special-poem-41460465.html
See there Ukrainian soldiers in English on St. Patrick’s Dauy – with the Irish Tricolour on helmets!
Saying the Irish revolution is equivalent to Kiev’s Nazi reactionaries reminds one only of :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueshirts#/media/File:O'Duffy_Blue_Shirt_Movement_fascist_salute.jpg
As President Putin said at the Kremlin this week, sure there are Nazi’s in Russia too – but they are not in Government. Same goes for Dublin?
De-Terrorisation would have struck a cord. Easy to understand, easy to demonstrate, pictures galore …
Interesting analysis other than that, thank you.
When Ramin wrote his first essay, I did not agree with it. But, I clearly acknowledged that he had a point. I just did not exactly know which part of the ‘point’ he had.
Now it is clear. He patiently took a lot of feedback and re-explained the power of the word. Even those that do not read Pattberg’s Menticide Manual, must agree to a concept that he elucidated just today:
Some years ago I believe it is The Saker that explained another term from the Russian. And it was ‘non-agreement-capable’. Grandma gets it, and the teenager gets it!
Now, everyone uses that, because it is correct and explains things clearly. This term has gone far and wide, much further than The Saker Blog and environments – because it hit the mark.
It is something like that, that Ramin is searching for – a term that can go far and wide, and explain things clearly to the whole community, and not just boomers.
I don’t think 3rd Gen Nazis does it for me, it does not roll so easily off the tongue. But I am in agreement to look for a term that explains things to everyone, without all kinds of extra explanations and gyrations needed.
That is the only objective here. Let’s find the correct term! because the one that we have, does not work so well and has morphed so much over the years, that it is being used for everything today.
I ought to have mentioned the Russian “semiofficial”?? definition…see “‘America is lying as easily as it breathes’ – Russian Duma committee deputy chairman on Ukraine crisis (E1010)” https://www.rt.com/shows/going-underground/549853-russia-ukraine-drills-tension/
“For us there is no difference between NATO and nazi, these are the same countries that attacked us in 1941”, according to my memory…see transcript.
A flawed and somewhat dated book> “The Rise of the Fourth Reich: The Secret Societies That Threaten to Take Over America” (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2770492-the-rise-of-the-fourth-reich)
Some may remember JFK’s “secret society” speech, shortly prior to the “correction” of November1963.
also – recalling the truism that what Soviets said about “west” was mostly solid, but they did lie about themselves…see Truman in 1948 http://www.sovietpropaganda.org/product/zhitomirskiy-truman-hysterical-the-drummer-of-war-1948/ (A. Zhitomirsky poster)
I see no difference! NATO is a patron to Al Qaida, ISIS in Syria. They were a tool to use. They are a patron to Pravij Sektor, Aidar, Azov, etc… They are complicit in all these crimes. They pump weapons into Ukraine because they just want more death of Russians. This will never be forgotten. It was stupid at an insane level. This will forever change the world and we are all more unsafe because of it. Western leadership is beyond contemptable.
Third Wave Nazis
Like Third Wave Feminism
But the starting point is Nazis
This will help Americans get it.
Hi Dan,
That’ll work.
“3rd-gen” is rather “Millenial-speak”, but either would get the point across quickly and effectively.
Hi amarynth,
“Mutually-beneficial cooperation” – that’s a term which I believe came from Iran, though it could be China (I’ve been using it so long I forgot!), but just like “non-agreement-capable” it’s a great political summation which any Grandma can get. Iran and China believe in mutually-beneficial cooperation, but not the West – every Grandma can see that, too.
So, yes, this type of a term is what I’m looking for with “3rd-gen Nazi”. I think many people willing to pause the Russian flag-waving just long enough to consider agree that “denazification” hasn’t worked in the West see that there’s been a problem.
While you don’t have to be Iranian to sympathise with the idea that “the West has no desire to listen to us”, saying that “who cares if denazification didn’t work” is just absurd, a waste, dumb, etc.
Agreed that Nazi is “being used for everything today”… to little positive effect. So, indeed – let’s find the correct terms! I want no credit for “Nali” or “3rd-gen Nazi” or whatever – just to see understanding. Call me a naive socialist….
Love your work! I have read most of your work that you post here. I disagree with you on a lot with this point. However, your work is appreciated. You have a great mind and keep the discussion going. I wish to believe power can come from this.
As for term Nazis. It has been white washed by the West. They use it in every attack politically against an opponent. Antifa ran around calling all Trump supporters Nazis for example. Does that mean a real Nazis can’t be called a Nazis? They have a doctor who wants to castrate Russian POWs. They are saying on TV there that they should kill all Russian children. They’re endless bases being opened up with 3rd Reich memorabilia such as Nazi flag on mugs, helmets, photos of Adolph Hitler. The Azov uses symbology of Germany. The black sun, wolfsangel on top, shared with 2nd SS armor division. The information flow is endless. Only the West blocks it, they used to show up to an inattentive audience. Surely, everyone here has seen the crimes they’ve committed? Like crucifying and burning to death? Making people dig their own graves and shooting them, rape, murder in imaginative ways? They proudly filmed their work.
My opinion, the West created a society that used it in stupid fashion, now comes along real Nazis. Now we can’t say it because it was overused?
One example of whitewash we all remember the Boston Bombing. The Federal government called the bomb used a weapon of mass destruction. Idiots!! That term was for Nukes, Chemical, and Biological. What would we call these weapons now if that foolishness took over?
Good health to you <3
Thanks Ugh!
“Does that mean a real Nazis can’t be called a Nazis?”
I hear you… but because of the whitewashing by the West, which you mentioned, and all the other forced distortions of 1930s history, I’m just inclined to updating the term where applicable.
“Some point out that Russia doesn’t have to convince anyone of anything. Sure, that’s sovereignty… but this only holds true inside of Russia.”
That is only your opinion, which you are of course entitled to, but it does not make it true & it is not. Russia actually does not owe the world an explanation for what it is doing, & as far as winning hearts & minds of the remainder of the world is concerned, may I say that this is plain ridiculous. The majority of countries in the world will side with Russia or the west depending on their vassal status, not on whether they know the truth about the situation, much less whether they understand what “denazification” in Ukraine means. Where Ukraine is concerned, yes, it is Nazis that Russia is dealing with, or if you like, national socialists. The fact that Nazis have never been socialists in the true sense of the term, well, it could be argued they were never nationalists either. And the “liberalist” term the author seems to like doesn’t apply to self-proclaimed liberals either, they are not liberals in any authentic meaning of the term. But in Ukraine, the Nazis of the Azov & Aidar gangs, Pravii Sektor group, Svoboda party, are ideological national socialists, in the sense that they adhere to that ideology. The crux of that ideology was never “national” or “socialist” anything, but racist imperialism. The terms Russia uses to describe any of this is totally irrelevant, no matter what terminology Russia uses & how well they get the message across, the world will react in exactly the same way. Cuba & Venezuela are likely to sympathise with Russia regardless, just as Colombia & South Korea will not. If Saudi Arabia doesn’t quite go along with the west, it is because of its strained relations with the US, & not because of how well Russia communicated its position.
שִׁבֹּלֶת (shibbólet)
Most of us have been thoroughly and repeatedly taught to attack anyone who uses the wrong word … even when they actually agree with us … we know it. Witness the pronoun muggings.
It is difficult to build a movement of people, or even to get them to talk together, when any word is likely to ignite a hysterical melee.
We have also been taught that words like “nazi”, “socialist”, “commie” … even “woman” and “man” … have so many meanings that they don’t mean anything.
I have seen many promising discussions, both on line and in the real world, dragged away into the sewers, by righteous indignation at the wrong word. The righteous indignation of an attention-seeking troll,,, or a paid troll,,, or even a few times I suspect an undercover cop.
If we want a healthy discussion, we must tolerate … something we have been taught is never ever acceptable. Sometimes people misspell. Sometimes people use the wrong word. Often people don’t think exactly the same as us … otherwise why bother to discuss. Otherwise what do they mean? Otherwise are we going to just shut them down? Like any other troll. Or maybe they know something we don’t?
Why have we been taught that the only correct response to difference is all-out attack? Why have we never been taught to learn rom difference?
Banderism = Rural Ukrainian tribalism.
And a moment of humor. Russian Russian Internet is now running an anecdote:
Russian tankers are sitting in a Paris cafe, drinking coffee with croissants. Columns of Russian tanks, cars, rockets, guns are passing by. And one tanker says to another: “I only regret one thing – we lost the information war.”
” “I only regret one thing – we lost the information war.”
The Russian critique of Mr. Mazaheri and other tourists lost in their own projections.
The “American way” being outlined by Mr. Rove –
We are an Empire
We create our own reality to which others react.
Suggestion:
“State-Sponsored extremists”
or
“state-sponsored nationalist extremists”
or
“CIA-trained nationalist extremists”
or
“Jewish oligarch sponsored and CIA trained white supremacist extremists”
(!).
To be more helpful I think it is high time to have a comprehensive but easy to read summary of the different types of state-sponsored (and any other) extremists currently in Ukraine including their funding, training, ideology and actions in the current conflict. Unless there has already been one, am missing such clear perspective about who and what are being discussed.
Clearly the Russians have done a terrible job with this. But nor have many others done much to clarify all this for the average non-Ukrainian citizen.
I really don’t buy this argument about “national liberalism”. Nazi German was by no means “socialist” either, and we call them nazis.
I think what Russia needs to do to win the PR war is to expose the Ukies’ crimes. The facts really speak for themselves. It really doesn’t matter what you call them, nalis, neonazis or whatever, people understand that killing women and children is pretty bad
The Russian court banned Facebook and Instagram, Meta was recognized as an extremist organization. The decision to ban Instagram and Facebook in Russia is subject to immediate execution.
Nazi is an awfully arbitrary term for a particularly vile form of political outlook. It is, after all, merely a diminutive of National Sozialismus i.e. National Socialism in interwar Germany.
I don’t think the Socialism bit is particularly relevant. Basically, Hitler did what he did because of the Versailles Treaty at the end of WWI, not because he was a rabid leftie, after all (he was, after all, the ultimate imperialistic Emperor). And what people associate with German Nazis is not the socialism, rather their attitude toward Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, Quakers, the Slavic people etc etc.
The term required must include the following characteristics:
1. The chosen race – in Germany that was broadly associated with blonde hair, blue eyes and purely ‘Germanic’ stock.
2. The ‘n**gers’, which in their case were not negroes, rather Jews and several other groupings. Basically, a minority ostracised and, in the end, exterminated due to their race/religion.
3. The desire for land expansion – in Germany termed ‘Lebensraum’, but when the White Man conquered what is now the USA, it was basically ‘manifest destiny’. Bottom line: kill indiginous people for land and riches and enslave and impoverish the ones you can’t kill.
4. Imposition of uniformity of culture with harsh punishment for disobedience. This was done particularly in Germany using the Hitler Jugend (aka Hitler Youth). Children and young adults are far easier to brainwash than the more experienced, after all (although in 2022, most Western politicians are as credulous and sycophantic as Germans growing up in the 1930s).
5. Steady and relentless drive of the ‘Untermenschen’ toward a fate of armageddon. Auschwitz et al only emerged as death camps about 8 years after the Jews started to become marginalised. First it was their right to work, own property etc. The camps were only there in the last 5 years or so.
If you were going to equate the current incarnation of Ukrainians with the Germans, you would have to say that they fancied creating a new ‘Greater Ukraine’ west of the Urals, driving the Russian ‘Untermenschen to Siberia east of the Urals.
Are the Azov battalion homophobes? Do they hate gypsies??
Has a ‘Ukrainian DNA profile’ been developed to allow scientific assignment of ‘genetic Ukrainian heritage’ to take place?? It must of course distinguish between pureblood Ukrainians and the Lumpenproletariat with Russian snowni**er blood intermingled….
The bottom line for the behaviour required to be described simply:
1. A misplaced sense of genetic purity.
2. Racist mis-casting of other groupings as ‘Untermenschen’.
3. A willingness to impose the culture onto everyone in the country, including killing dissidents to impose discipline.
4. Banning of languages not the designated one by the racial purists.
5. Enshrining the racist behaviour into the National Constitution.
6. Elimination of all political opposition once democracy/a coup d’etat has been used to usurp power initially.
7. Black and white painting of both history and current events.
8. Propaganda involving the most base lying, misrepresentation of historical fact and shameless demands of ‘allies’ for outrageous privileges going forward.
9. Enormous corruption and theft by the most senior spokespeople of the cause.
Is that ‘left wing’? ‘Right wing’?
Or just plain repulsive and despicable?
Dewing the damn thang.
A cancer
Cure it.
Non Reform Capable.
More options: “liberal totalitarianism” or “totalitarian liberalism”.
Hi George,
Not bad. Differentiates from the milder form: The “liberal strongman” and “rubber bullet liberalism” of Macron.
But “totalitarian” is hard to define in it of itself for the average person….
In Italy we have something similar (related to fascism) to what I have understood of russian denazification intent:
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/XII_disposizione_transitoria_e_finale_della_Costituzione_italiana
It could be taken as example?
A propaganda war is by definition one based on lies and you won’t ever defeat the “Empire of Lies” at its own game. It’s a waste of money and resources to even try. And even if you do succeed, you’ll have just created the infrastructure and culture to become another Empire Of Lies yourself.
Fighting in the way where the enemy’s strongest is stupid. You don’t defeat Mike Tyson in his prime in a boxing ring. You defeat him in a dark alley with a glock.
Russia should maximize its natural advantages (Vast resources, exceptional military, united people, strong allies in China and India.) while neutralizing the enemy’s (ban hostile foreign media sources and NGOs, deal with 5th columnists supported by the enemy, cut all ties with the enemy’s institutions and leave their platforms and replace them with its own)
Everyone appears to want Russia to do a PR war, most probably in English. But why should it? In Russian, everything is said in short form. And, Russians understand that. Watch Russian films, serials and you’d hear dialogues in short form, mostly one word “sentences.” If the English speaking world, if such a thing exists, to understand what a Russian would say to convey a message, one has to learn Russian…and, feel Russian. So, technically, there’s no need for a PR war…in English. Russia and the Russians don’t have to prove themselves to the “English-speaking” world.
In Asia, Africa or South America, wherever the Russians were, on business, on helping out with development, the people understands the Russians even without learning Russian. Why? They don’t hurt the country or the countryman with that business or the development works, not like the Americans with their profit seeking methods, their importing the US type “democracy,” and the damage they do to the host country. Watch how Americans speak to each other. The speech is somewhat artificial, the greetings comes only from the mouth…just words. If a Russian says Доброе утро! s/he means it.
This semantics is quite interesting before coming so boring. I’d more likely concentrate just to question of geopolitics and fight against uni polar hegemony of $-Gorilla. And that fight will surely find its Allied nations from both Russia and world outside old tired boring “west”. Ask yourself: “Do you wanna be bedwench of 600 Pounds Dollar Gorilla?”
or how about:
‘neo-Khazarians’
Stand-up mother
NATO- North Atlantic TERRORIST Organisation….. NATONAZIFICATION
North Atlantic TERRORIST Organization………Natonazification
Dear Ramin, thank you very much for this very good piece. I have been trying to explain similar points to friends and colleagues from Brazil since a while, with very little success. The western media made a very good job brainwashing people and also distorting history. Post-modernism screwed westerners brains…
I completely agree you with you. We need somehow find a term, or a whole set of terms, to make it clear for people what nazism and denazification in 2022 means. You see, in my country the self-called leftists passed 4 years calling out Bolsonaro as fascist, just for now align themselves to the standard western instance in Ukraine.
In the USA, it’s rather difficult to get people to understand the two meanings of Liberalism, i.e. the ideology of Capital and the Bank from 1789 or earlier actually versus willingness to spend government money to fix social issues (a US Democrat Party obfuscation started circa 1930). That explanation takes at least two minutes, which is 90 seconds too long for most Americans. But without this distinction, people can’t understand what’s going on. The term “Nails” would only make sense to people who already know there are two Liberal ideologies. In France, I guess the distinction is somewhat understood, but it’s not in The Land Of The Brave And The Home Of The Free (Sarc on.)
Nazism was not an end in itself it was a tool in Britains geopolitical toolbox. A multipurpose tool.
Britains aim was, if possible, to outmanoeuver all her rivals including both the US AND the bankers!
I dont subscribe to the view that the bankers pull the strings other than in the pliant service of the anglosaxons. And thus I believe the term ‘international’ financiers is inappropriate other than as a reflection of the international character of the anglosaxon empire.
Without nazism however the bankers could have evolved in the direction of international fianciers.
In that case economic development of a multipolar world could have taken place, presumably with Germany playing an important role
As things were Britain needed the services of the bankers but did not want her rivals to have equal access under fair conditions and peace.
Thus nazism was and still is a tool useful for the anglosaxon empire.
It is less necessary as a way to control the bankers after Britains successful launch of the earlier nazi era.
But still useful for Russia-baiting.
Those types of media strategies using different names for say Nazi, don’t work against the enemy. Russia discovered over a dozen secret bio-labs across Ukraine run by the US Army. Those labs were very likely involved in spreading controlled pandemics all over the place. However, very limited attention is being paid to it by the international bodies. The only remaining option left for Russia is to defeat the Nazis in a major way.
Thank you for your hard work. I don’t speak enough English and I’m also not familiar enough with Western culture to find the right word. Bandera and today’s Ukronazists are more like cruel hillbillies, European tribalists of the XXI century, than ideological Nazis. Like the gang in the movie “Straw Dogs”. The “emo-Nazis” have almost the same relation to Nazism as the “emo-Marxists” mentioned by The Saker to Marxism. But tribalism is not such a well-known word as Nazism. Therefore, it will not be able to mobilize people for war.
Besides, against the hillbilly gang (in Ukraine they are called “ragul” or “hutoryanin”) they send a sheriff, not an entire army. He comes and arrests everyone. Maybe shoot a couple of times with a shotgun. The “ragul” has no tanks, cannons or Tochka-U ballistic missiles. People in the West disgusted with the image of a brutalized bloody butcher?
In case anyone’s interested, Dugin, a “Sixth Column” fantasizer, broke out a big article in the Russian think tank “Izborsk Club” called “Nationalism – a Criminal Fiction and an Ideological Dead End” (use the online translator) – https://izborsk-club.ru/22489
A quote from Dugin’s article (one must always remember that they are full of abstractions, models, and reification):
“The artificial nature of nationalism is beautifully described by the sociologist Benedict Anderson. He convincingly shows that, unlike people or ethnicity, “nation” is a political and artificial concept, created for pragmatic purposes by bourgeois ideologists when it was necessary to somehow consolidate society after it had rejected tradition – religious, class and hierarchical (imperial). Anderson titled his book The Imagined Community, which emphasized the illusory nature of the nation as an arbitrary and fictitious creation of intellectuals ideologically serving the interests of the bourgeoisie.
Benedict Anderson gives a very important formulation: nationalism does not follow the nation as its extreme form, but it precedes the nation. Nationalism comes first, and only then the nation itself. Every nation is invented by nationalists. Nationalists start by inventing ancient roots for a specific historical people that have nothing to do with it. They proclaim the modern bourgeois state as the heir to some great empire. And then the nationalists impose upon the entire population of the state some arbitrary language (most often a dialect, it is called “idiom”), a single cultural code, and a common system of law on an individual – civil – basis. This collection of individual citizens, forced to speak a single language and consider themselves fictitious descendants of great (or invented) ancestors, is only necessary so that a society that is fragmented and atomized does not disintegrate altogether, but so that neither religious, nor class, nor imperial institutions, nor rural communities are revived. And in order to unite this heterogeneous mass, an enemy is needed, in the face of whom all these human fragments (parts without a whole) would feel solidarity in hatred and ungrounded superiority”.
So, Putin believes in a woke, multicultural cesspool of third world brown people? Russia is a bit too friendly with Muslims. Say what you want about “Nazis”. The little hat people that run the US and are gutting and destroying the US are the ones pushing these “nazis” in Ukraine. The little hats will also come and are coming for Russia if they have not already captured the banks and media. I’m hoping Putin understands these wailing wall whackos are the ones out to ultimately destroy Russia not “nazis”. They will use whoever they need to be it “nazis”, “muzzies”, “libtards”, etc.
Russia really don’t need to bother with this, they’ll win the PR campaign by being honest and straight to the point. Western propaganda is like advertising, it only affects a small percentage of the population although very effectively (20% of people buy 80% of goods). On youtube everyday more people question the official narrative, to the point they’re now in the majority in many MSM channels. Russia just has to stick to the facts, and liars will crumble in face of evidences. The trust in the medias is at an all time low in the West after years of cover-ups and so-called fact-checking being disproven.
It is well documented
The Germans, Western Europe have been calling the radical anti Russian fighters “Azov battalion, Right Sector”, and all them groups “fashist” for the last 7 years, and there are thousands of internet articles to provide it.
If the Russians had started out calling it an “anti-fascist”, or “Anti-Fa” for short, and appealed to the Black Lives Matter folks to stop the the fascist police from killing Snow-Ni66ers, the Russians could have done somewhat better in the PR department.
All recent “terrorist” movements (Azov, BLM, Antifa, etc, those on the left and those on the right) are grown, manipulated and controlled by elites using money and the media. In my opinion, the Western “puppet masters” can take any inherent tension between one group and another and stir it into violence and war (example: eastern Ukrainian Russian orthodox vs. Western Ukrainian pro-Hitler types). They use the media plus money plus the intel agencies to get what they want. Some say the Anglo elites are control freaks who have a need to control World events (such as reducing the World population). It may be the Jewish oligarchs who seek favorable outcomes for the Chosen People (they have ancient scores to settle with European and Russian Christians). Different oligarchical entities may work at cross purposes. However, most elites are sociopaths so their end game will eventually become cannibalistic and suicidal.
Now recognize that the power to create money in the finance capital system is in private hands (federal reserve)and is created out of thin air as debt. Add fractional reserve lending and world reserve currency status to this power structure and ….walah. Weaponizing Capital or restrictions to access and trade in the form of sanctions and embargos is Dimitriov’s definition of fascist capitalism. Coerciive capitalism and chaos capitalism are fascist. Capital in the hands of a few is oppressive. All created out of privilege to print out of thin air. There you have it. Gotta to be a more inclusive moderate way.
The term “Third generation Nazis” has very compelling implications, especially for certain nationalities: it brings to the fore, for example, that Ursula von der Leyen – until recently German Minister of Defence and now head to the EU – is the granddaughter of a German Nazi war criminal who directly participated in the most horrific genocide at Babi Yar near Kiev, and is in every sense utterly a third generation Nazi; and Canadian Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland is also very much a third generation Nazi.
The EU, now headed by a third generation Nazi and granddaughter of a mass murderer, was created after the second world war primarily by first generation Nazis (especially its legal foundations). The structural political architecture and ideology of the EU closely follows principles laid down specifically for such a supranational body by IG Farben during Hitler’s time.
So is it really so surprising that the EU today is so fervently supportive of the Azov Battalian and their use of human shields, murder and torture of civilians trying to escape, and throwing civlian appartment owners from their top floor balcanies when they want to use those apartments as artillary emplacements?
The importance of the term “Third Generation Nazis” is not that the meaning of the term Nazi has changed (they still view others as subhuman and treat others’ lives and suffering as worthless), so much as the fact of the literal third generation Nazis’ penetration and dominance of today’s political and national security establishment elites, in the form of the dominant Nazi ideology of the present age – Neoliberalism.
I don’t care what they call themselves and I don’t even care what Russia calls them. “Denazification” and “neo-nazis” are limiting terms.
“Wholesale cleansing” would be more appropriate.
Are these individuals “neo-nazi” by some definition?
https://www.rt.com/russia/552367-ukraine-doctor-castrate-prisoners/
https://www.rt.com/russia/552392-ukrainian-doctor-denies-castration/
Again I don’t care. Is any further investigation needed? Not to my mind.
Just find them….
Too much carnal thinking. We are not going to overcome Satan through propaganda or mass media nor physical weapons.
To overcome Satan, we need spiritual weapons God supply us.
Sword of the Spirit – Truth, Love……..etc. Russia needs just should act in Truth and live up to what she says. The empire of Lies is dying because it is receiving cuts from Truth that are fatal to her.
Love – Russia should in her victory remain humble, express acts of Love to everyone – feed them, help them….etc
By your Love your enemies see God and God’s Spirit will transform them.
Look back! Why Empires were able to conquer Nations? The missionary did first, spreading love. But evil took advantage – rulers & merchants ! They fvck up everything the missionary sowed. At least that is what happened with UK and US.
Grow up. Stop peddling twaddle on the nobility of spirit if the missionaries.
Dear Mr.Mazaheri,
You accept Western propaganda as premises for your “Russia’s PR disaster”, which in my opinion is deadly wrong.
As we know Russia’s way is straight forward, duly build up and factual, and Russia and we already know and have proved the sheeple are beyond any reasonable reach, there is no reason to waste more time on “contra-propaganda” as the truth only penetrates those who seeks and want it.
Hope you can use this challenge to your development. Best regards
How in the heck can Russia win a competition into which they are not allowed?
There is no debate in the Western media concerning Russia’s justification of preventing NATO from encroaching ever more on their border. It isn’t allowed.
So, what’s the point in wasting time trying to speak to US and EU citizens who aren’t even allowed to hear what Russia says.
You armchair diplomatic whiners need to get the hell over yourselves.
Here’s another Politically Incorrect assertion:
Nazism is really just Westernism and Americanism without its propaganda facade of Freedom and Democracy.
That is, Nazism represents Western/American Values in more naked form: genocidal exploitation, racism, but most importantly, the culmination of 500 years of Western colonialism.
This is true for the original Nazism, 2nd generation, or 3rd generation Nazism today.
Just look at the all the not-so-covert connections between the Anglo-Americans and Nazism before World War 2 and even after World War 2, when Nazi crimes were all exposed and there was no more excuse of being ignorant of what Nazism represented.
As the article on “Nazi Germany and American Indians” states,
“The Nazis’ interest in the United States policies and laws regarding American Indians originated with Adolf Hitler himself. In his book Mein Kampf, Hitler discussed U.S. laws and policies and noted that the United States was a racial model for Europe and that it was ‘the one state’ in the world that was creating the kind of racist society that the Nazi regime wanted to establish. In a 1928 speech, Hitler stated that Americans had ‘gunned down the millions of Redskins to a few hundred thousand, and now keep the modest remnant under observation in a cage …’”
In short, Nazism=Americanism/Westernism
Anglo-Saxon Roots of German Nazism
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/07/05/anglo-saxon-roots-of-german-nazism/
Hitler’s American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law
https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691172422/hitlers-american-model
Our Nazis: the Gehlen Org
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/02/our-nazis-the-gehlen-org/
War Against the Weak: Eugenics and America’s Campaign to Create a Master Race
https://www.waragainsttheweak.com/
The CIA and the Nazis
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/index.htm
America’s Collusion With Neo-Nazis
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/americas-collusion-with-neo-nazis/
Nazi Germany and American Indians
https://indiancountrytoday.com/opinion/nazi-germany-and-american-indians
Perhaps, the real agenda should be to deAmericanize and deWesternize both the Ukraine and the world….
Good post!
One may add> Churchill also wrote of the extermination of “inferiors” and specifically of the Red Indian.
The deep origin of nazi may lie in the piracy that the northern European peninsula people developed. They were poor marginal people, and went raiding in summer…for what? 2000 years of so, but when they got iron, germs, and gunpowder…and proper ships…circa 500 years ago…the hobby got very real. Add chronometer and calculus and navigation…and in fullness of time, airplanes and nuclear gadgets. It’s “cultural” and some might argue that there’s a genetic character too, though I doubt this could be important, witness we find nazis in Japan and Ukraine…
2 good words.
deAmericanize and deWesternize.
Which would infuriate the west, but actually make most countries in the world happy:)
But should add a word about bullying.
To DeAmericanize and deWesternize the world, to stop their bullying the world.
“…in order to prevent a 4th Reich anywhere.” It seems that creating the 4th Reich is under way, right now. Western leaders are deconstructing their own societies and economies behind the “woke” agenda, while Russia and China are the darlings of the World Economic Forum’s Great Reset > Central Bank Digital Currencies, Social Credit Score, Cancellation of alternative viewpoints, 4th Industrial/AI Revolution. Better explained here: https://www.corbettreport.com/putin/
Too complicated.
If need a long sentence to describe any groups, then have lost any hostile reader long time ago.
Anyone who has been bombarded with western propaganda will be hostile/closed off (if they have allready let the western propaganda seep into their brain).
So complicating descriptions… they will have shut down their ears after 3rd word. So need a description which grab enough attention and do not shut them completly off before delivering fuller message.
Look, this isn’t difficult. You have a cabal inside Ukraine who call themselves “Nazis”. They have a Nazi hero; they wave Nazi flags; they spout Nazi slogans; and they are committing ethnic cleansing inside their own borders. They are radical in their politics by any standard. Why must Russia or anyone else invent a different name for them? After nearly eighty years of being constantly reminded of the horrors of the German Nazi Holocaust through every means possible (and it’s good that no one should ever forget, might I add), you seriously believe that Westerners get the wrong impression when they hear the word “Nazi”? I just think that the author of this article is making a mountain out of a molehill. Usually the best way to communicate is with terms that are well understood. The advantageous thing about the term “denazification” is that it speaks to Russia’s intent with this special military action: that being that they are not acting against ALL Ukrainians but against those who have seized power, who embrace radical politics, who are engaged in ethnic cleansing, those who identify as Nazis or Nationalist politically. I think, at least in this case, Westerners and thinking people worldwide are smart enough to understand what Putin and the Russian Federation mean when they use the term “denazification”. That’s all I’m saying.
Trying to compete with the father of lies by lying makes you one of his children – a losing proposition in the long run.
Furthermore, you’re dealing with established presuppositions and binary thinking almost impossible to overcome by reason or logic, so you’re left with two choices – rhetoric or dialectic.
However – sooner or later – reality sets in as explained here – https://crushlimbraw.blogspot.com/2022/03/rhetoric-dialecticand-reality.html?m=0 – events themselves…ultimately…..prove the truth.
Unfortunately, discovering truth takes time!
Ramin, appreciate your work over the years. Not sure deNazification is the PR fail in the West that you think it is. It may be more of a red pill / blue (and yellow) pill thing. Vast swathes of Westerners will now believe or disbelieve whatever the narrative managers want them to.
But among the red pilled, the Nazi thing gets significant traction. Though it’s not entirely clear whether Russia actually means just Ukraine, or the deNazification of NATO, or the West itself.
Again, missing some essential French history.
During WWII US military intelligence unearthed the Synarchist network of banks running parallel Nazi-Communist radicals. Chiefly Banque de Worms and Lazard Freres, and Bush granpa’s Harriman Brothers.
Hence the French word Synarchist – nazi-communist.
That is why today many are fooled by Antifa – a left-wing Nazi movement.
As the US military put it – Nazi-communists swapped shirts during the week.
Basically global finance runs a double whammy on the unsuspecting citizens of nation-states with a general-welfare clause, such as even the USA.
Russia’s commitment to culture and general-welfare under Putin is simply not tolerated by a global bankrupt financial oligarchy.
The confusion is actually amusing, if not also extremely dangerous.
Ramin, my man, always a pleasure reading you, one can be sure he is in for a good intellectual ride!
As I am really a nobody, allow me to say frankly:
I can’t make promises on saying Nali, nevertheless your logic is inpeccable, but thats just so, since the only “nelly” i know is the nelly furtado…
And Naahli isn’t melting on my tongue either. Naahli is either a dwarven hero of Tolkien., or an old oriental wiseman, who left his citations of transcendental bon-mots be manhandled by youtube playlists.
But that was “nobody” speaking, my evil alias.
The phrase with the 3rd generation Nazis and that thread I am really buyin’.
So that is an expliotable vector of attack in intellectual convinceing.
You got me on the boat and sailing.
In my country this topic eroded everything other.
I m so glad this blog has such a forge for intellectual armament!
The only remedy for your absence so long is your book.
Don’t treat us so miserably next time, I really miss the airplane stories from- was it transatlantic? – flights!
Cheers
Grenknight you are too kind!
Sorry I have been gone – as you said, working on the book. Lotta work, but it’s for the Vesters.
The airplane satires, LOL? Well, I’ll have to check with The Saker.
I am the daughter of an Italian mother who fought in the Resistance (la Resistenza italiana) first against Mussolini fascism later also against Hitler nazism. I understand exactly what the Russians mean by denazification. The term third-generation Nazi is not needed. I think Ramin Mazaheri is making a fuss about it.
Russia has totally given up on the West. It doesn’t care one whit what the degenerate west thinks. It is all an Empire of Lies. Why would it waste time trying to placate implicably Russophobic Europe and the US? As for thinking it can all be resolved via a sensible serious debate with appropriate terminology, try telling that to a Neo-Nazi who wants to murder all Russian children simply because they are Russian.
Well it keeps the self-perceived “cognoscenti” running round in circles re-enforcing their illusions of self-significance, not that “Russia” particularly cares, since the alternative may be eating many hamburgers and glugging sodas, developing stage 2 diabetes, increased usage of ant-depressants due to the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, and wasting all assets on unsucessful “healthcare” – a type of recycling.
De-terrorization or in other words, deNATOfication.
Regarding Mr. Mazaheri’s article on Russia’s PR shortcomings following the launch of its mission in Ukraine. I couldn’t stop myself not posting this comment. Basically, Westerners have serial-type views about the Russians which date back to the times of the Cold War, like the Brezhnev, Khrushchev era – the MSM know how to make the best of it. By simple observation, even here in the Saker blog, we see daily briefings by the defense ministry. I believe this is how it works in Russia that those who are truly professionals, understand their jobs and have come from respectable educational background are normally hired to do the job…etc. Now, here is what seems to be the main problem with the Russian PR. It basically doesn’t appeal to the brainwashed Western audience, using the Russian standards. i.e. no matter how much one shouts about the dangers of Nazism, nobody in the West pay attention. Therefore, suppose the briefings and the war against the Ukronazis, Azovs … being told by a much more appealing, attractive say young lady. It’s not at all important if she has any knowledge of the subject she is describing -in fact it’s even better if she has no clue, yet when she does her daily briefings to her audience, it would have a tremendously more impact on them than the current PR setting. Believe it or not they may even see the dangers posed by the Nazis.
There is no PR desaster. I remember a fairy tale film of my childhood (I think a Romanian one) in which the hero had to find the water of life. He came to a valley where there were many many wells, and everyone shouted ” I am the water of life!“ Only one well was silent – the water of life.
No, Russia does not have to be louder than the many Western propagandists and market criers. Russia does not have to become like the West.
Russia must tell the truth and nothing else. Those who have ears will hear.
We westerners are the ones who has to fix the mess of lies in zone A.
A little more about Zelinsky and connection with the Nazi elements…
https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/82186/servant-of-the-deep-state-is-zelensky-a-double.html
extract:
“Born to Jewish parents in a town in central Ukraine in Jan. 1978, his early life remains shrouded in mystery. Volodymyr Zelensky was groomed by covert CIA operatives in Ukraine since his student life while he was studying law at the Kryvyi Rih National University.
Instead of pursuing legal career, he chose acting as a profession at the behest of his influential patrons to gain nationwide publicity, particularly through comedy television series “Servant of the People” in which Zelensky “prophetically played” the role of the Ukrainian president.
In fact, his production company Kvartal 95, which produces films, cartoons and television shows, was generously funded by deep pockets of Western security agencies. Comically exposing corruption and sleazy dealings of Ukraine’s politician and oligarch, the series “Servant of the People” aired from 2015 to 2019 and struck a chord with Ukrainian masses.
Western security agencies not only lavishly funded his obscure media organization but also introduced him to a clandestine cabal of illustrious Hollywood producers and directors adept in psychological warfare and public relationing. The media success of “Servant of the People” is attributed as much to the efforts of the employees of Kvartal 95 as to the skill of international media organizations specializing in global opinion-making.
Riding on the wave of media publicity, Zelensky won a landslide presidential election in 2019. Later, his political party, which he “coincidentally” named “Servant of the People,” won an overwhelming victory in a snap legislative election held shortly after his inauguration as president.
Since 2019, after being elected president through questionable methods, Zelensky has surreptitiously been working on a clandestine project to foment a crisis with Russia on a flimsy pretext. Any other political leader with an iota of rational faculties, even somebody as rogue as his predecessor Petro Poroshenko, would promptly have agreed to the Kremlin’s reasonable proposal that Kyiv must give a solemn pledge it won’t join transatlantic NATO military alliance.
Not only did he scornfully rebuff the Russian proposal but he also let Ukraine’s security forces stage joint military exercises and naval drills alongside NATO forces in the Black Sea right under Russia’s nose. His reckless disregard for the suffering of Ukrainian masses and suicidally provoking Russia into an armed confrontation aside, he is merely a pawn in the grand scheme of things.
Although alleged to be a Jew, the real faith of Zelensky and his associates is Satanism. That’s why he didn’t hesitate in collaborating with Ukraine’s infamous Azov Battalion, officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine, that has been widely acknowledged as a neo-Nazi volunteer paramilitary force connected with foreign white supremacist organizations.
Azov Battalion was initially formed as a volunteer group in May 2014 out of the ultra-nationalist Patriot of Ukraine gang, and the neo-Nazi Social National Assembly (SNA) group. As a battalion, the group fought on the front lines against pro-Russia separatists in Donbas, the eastern region of Ukraine.
A few months after recapturing the strategic port city of Mariupol from the Russia-backed separatists, the unit was officially integrated into the National Guard of Ukraine on November 12, 2014, and exacted high praise from then-President Petro Poroshenko. “These are our best warriors,” he said at an awards ceremony in 2014. “Our best volunteers.”
The unit was led by Andriy Biletsky, who served as the leader of both the Patriot of Ukraine (founded in 2005) and the SNA (founded in 2008). In 2010, Biletsky said Ukraine’s national purpose was to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade … against Semite-led Untermenschen [inferior races].” Biletsky was elected to parliament in 2014. He left Azov as elected officials cannot be in the military or police force. He remained an MP until 2019.
These forces were privately funded by oligarchs – the most known being Igor Kolomoisky, an energy magnate billionaire and then-governor of the Dnipropetrovska region. In addition to Azov, Kolomoisky funded other volunteer battalions such as the Dnipro 1 and Dnipro 2, Aidar and Donbas units.
The Mint Press News recently reported [1]: “Zelensky’s presidential bid in 2019, which saw him win 73% of the vote, was successful on the basis that he was running in order to combat corruption and create peace in the country but, as the leaked documents known as the Pandora Papers revealed, he himself was storing funds in offshore bank accounts. Zelenskyy’s campaign was at the time boosted and bankrolled by Israeli-Ukrainian billionaire Igor Kolomoisky – who was himself accused of stealing $5.5 billion from his own bank.”
That is well known, also the fact he was elected to implement the Minsk Accords, organized by France and Germany. In other words the vast majority of Ukrainians wanted that deal.
And then also very well known, the threat from Azov to “hang him on a tree” if he actually signed that deal.
Now see Zelensky’s predicament.
When Ukraine”s Danilov ( le secrétaire du Conseil de sécurité nationale ukrainien) announced the Russian FSB had derailed an assassination attempt on Zelensky,
L’assassinat de Zelensky a-t-il été déjoué grâce aux services de sécurité russes ?
https://solidariteetprogres.fr/actualites-001/assassinat-zelensky-dejoue-services-russes.html
Just think!
Ich widerspreche. Das Alleinstellungsmerkmal Russlands ist, dass es die Wahrheiten, die es herausfindet, ungeschminkt und ohne jede PR ausspricht. Dazu gehört auch das überfällige Begreifen dessen, was Nationalsozialismus stets war und auch geblieben ist. Aus meiner Sicht eine toxische Mischung aus eugenischem Größenwahn und Zusammenarbeit mit Oligarchen, die dies fördern und fordern. Viel Glück und große Hoffnung aus Deutschland, wo es nötiger denn je ist, unter all den Lügen und Verdrängungen endlich die Wahrheit um die Ohren zu bekommen: der deutsche Faschismus war auch damals schon ein angloamerikanisches Projekt. Die Deutschen – Hitler, Rockefellers Mann wie Schwab auch – haben sich das gefallen lassen und sind dabei, den Fehler erneut zu begehen. Alles, was Russland tut, hilft der ganzen Welt, endlich wahrer und ehrlicher zu werden.
+++
I disagree. Russia’s unique selling point is that it speaks the truths it discovers unvarnished and without any PR. This includes the overdue comprehension of what National Socialism always was and has remained. From my point of view a toxic mixture of eugenic megalomania and collaboration with oligarchs who promote and demand this. Good luck and great hope from Germany, where it is more necessary than ever to finally get the truth to the ears among all the lies and repressions: German fascism was an Anglo-American project even then. The Germans – Hitler, Rockefeller’s man as well as Schwab – put up with it and are about to make the mistake again. Everything Russia does helps the whole world to finally become truer and more honest.
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
“I disagree. Russia’s unique selling point is that it speaks the truths it discovers unvarnished and without any PR. ”
That was agreed in 1969 in discussions of “How to drown a drowning man with the minimum of blowback ?” but was not ever perceived as “a selling point”.
Another point which I paraphrase that was agreed : Some societies encourage seeking attribution. So Mr. Lenin was mistaken. They don’t sell the ropes with which you can hang them; they give you them for free.
I find myself having a strong reaction, almost an allergic one, to this article.
I agree with the need to define the terms we use.
We need also to dive into complexity and subtleties rather than making it complicated and confusing.
I noticed an insistence in repeating “the failure of dénazification “, like “ the Russians need something better than this failed intellectual campaign of dénazification “.
In fact I find you Ramin to be quite intellectual and Poutine to be rather pragmatic.
I don’t mean to oppose you to him. In fact, I wonder as well about poutine complacency with the liberal model.
Faith in the process, I guess, it takes.
I agree though that feeding and fighting nazism are both playing for liberalism rather than zapping it altogether.
I believe, at some level, nazism is manipulated rather than “allied” with liberalism. It has been in the past and still is, just the same. Bankers behind the scenes.
Ultra liberal supra national powers are using any group ready to act violently, be it Nazis, white supremacists, antifa, djihadistes, mercenaries, gladio, armies … in order to terrorize the majority of the population and make it comply. Not unlike a German shepherd dog can split a herd into atomized individuals, or make it walk in line, by trotting back and forth along it’s flanks.
I don’t think we need to redefine what nazism is. We need to acknowledge its reality.
“The chosen one” is an ideology older than any other one. Any tribe will have a “healthy” bias towards itself, in believing to be superior.
Of course, humiliations, sense of powerlessness, uprootedness, inflicted pains and resulting hatred, revenge seeking, scapegoating, simplistic logic and justifications… all that contributes to a deep sense of unfairness, like the archetype of the “orphan “ which tends to compensate and perpetrate all kinds of injustices and atrocities.
Ukronazis fit the description. They have “the merit” to not hide their insanity and their inhuman side of humanity, even though they hide behind subhuman civilians that they would massacre otherwise…
Are they really any different from Bandera and “first generation” Nazis?
In classical totalitarian movements “the chosen race” is at the core ( cf Hannah Arendt on totalitarianism), be it aryen, Germanic nazism, Slavic bolchevism, Jewish Talmud, Japanese Pride thing… What is new, sort of, is that totalitarianism is now “inverted” so the finance has total control on the politic, rather than the classic political control over the economic.
I disagree also with doing the amalgamation of “oligarchical leadership” with monarchy. The oligarchy is not on the spot, it has power with no accountability, it is ruling through a base of technocrats. It doesn’t thrive in shining but in shady moves. How can we compare a guy like Soros to a king? Yes the level of concentration of power is similar; it can plunge whole countries in deep doodoo just for personal profit. A king would no justify his crimes saying that “ if that wasn’t me, somebody else would have done it”.
As far as alliances, I believe that western decadence (or ultra liberalism, or whatever term we use to describe the sickness) is based also on an inversion at the level of game theory: these days, “the empire of lies” is setting the “cheating” move as the norm and the “cooperative “move as the exception.
So, on both sides, the LGBT deep state superdooper liberal and the ukronazis are both ready to cheat on each other at the next move if opportunity allows. They hate each other. Nazis are just more sincere about it. Too bad they express it against another group of people instead. Shit runs downhill.
Conditioning, stupidity, traumatismes… No excuse. But a certain understanding. Also, the rich manipulators are more likely to survive unpunished.
I find “denazification” resonating with dératisation sort of. It is obviously “disturbing”, “shocking” ( as I sip on my English breakfast tea). Lots of long term healing… and short term eradication.
Yes the financial system is the real disease or enemy, even if we are on he hook. Breaking free is not pain free.
“Socialism” is the next form of society for the west… very pragmatically socialist, with “no private property for the people” great reset thing. We shall see.
Yes, “true” socialism, true democracy, that would be nice, wouldn’t it? Truth in general.
Meanwhile we may deal with our own contradictions, discrepancies and lies, petty or grand. Shame, guilt, all that.
We may be standing in our innocence and wholeness.
Be well.
You can make the Ukrainians understand that the Euromaidan and the Western slavery wasn’t good for them by pointing out facts like that the Ukraine has a lower GDP than Iraq, besides 8 years of Western “help”, that the Ukraine is the top 3 child p*rn producer in the world, that the Euromaidan was a coup that started an infinite civil war, that they had not a single intention to end the civil war, but wanted to prolong it infinitely and turn the Donbas into their personal Palestine… and so one…
You can explain your reasoning without having to use a meanie buzzword like “Nazi”.
For Indians and the Chinese, Nazi isn’t as much of an evil insult as you think it is. They will rather agree that the NATO is a threat to global security and join based on that, than being concerned about what you label “Nazis”.
“Nazi” is such a loaded word that we have to ask ourselves if even Hitler was a Nazi according to what we perceive as “Nazi” nowadays… doesn’t matter if it’s the Western definition of “against jews” or if it’s the Russian definition of mass-killing Russians while roleplaying as a nordic Pagan.
Did Hitler fight against Russians or did he fight about Communists?.. you know, just like the Communists he fought against in Germany when they tried their Revolution and that he fought against in the Spanish civil war?
Bismarck, no liberal, introduced social-security to Germany.
The west, specifically the US, has trivialized the word Nazi so much that it has little effect. But we must call things as they are. In that respect, “3rd generation Nazi” is a good retort to the dismissive response. Because what’s important is that
A. These are full-fledged Nazis, not just ethnic Ukrainian fascists, and
B. There is a direct line of descent from the 1st generation to this one by a widely admitted history of western intelligence cultivating Ukrainian Nazis.
Which brings us to “state-sponsored extremist”, a brilliant turn of phrase. These state-sponsored extremists happen to be actual Nazis. I was asked recently, “so are you on Putin’s side?” And my response was, in honor of my grandfather who nearly lost both feet and did lose the innocence of his youth, 6 million Jews, millions of Poles, an untold number of Romani, untold numbers of “undesirables” like homosexuals, the mentally handicapped, political enemies, etc and 27 million Russians I’m against the Nazis. If Putin’s fighting real Nazis, and he is, then I guess I am on his side. Which side are you on?
Wow, do people still believe the magical six million”?
Even in the face of evidence to refute the number?
Gullible twits abound.
“3rd Gen” is such a dull, dry figment of American small talk.
“Russia will lose the battle for Western hearts and minds if it fails to introduce new discussions and prolonged, patient debates about what “Nazi” means in 2022.”
Russia couldn’t care less about “Western hearts and minds”.
Hell, I live in San Francisco and I couldn’t care less about “Western hearts and minds.”
I view this article as I did the last – as basically word play which is not going to resolve anything. What matters is not the term used but the philosophical content of the persons defining themselves as the heirs of Hitler. Examining how that content has “evolved” over the decades since WWII is not particularly useful. The core remains the same. Changing the overall name of the content just confuses the issue more.
In any event, the West isn’t going to allow Russia to define the terms, any terms. So why bother trying?
The categories in this article don’t match up with how National Socialists see themselves. 3rd gen?
Putin is correct that Azov and other groups identify with the Bandera legacy and even see themselves as NatSoc. But their ideological veneer is little more than an excuse to rally people to brutalize Russians; the Third Reich’s contemptuous treatment of Russians, Poles, and other Slavs is today seen as an embarrassment or something outgrown by most current NatSocs. Naturally, it is also hard to imagine the Waffen SS would have allowed openly Jewish members or fought for a Jewish head of state.
To set the record straight, Nordic Resistance Movement, which is the most professional and polished National Socialist group in Europe today (they have even called themselves “Hitler’s men”) are strictly neutral in the Russo-Ukrainian War, and strongly advise all European nationalists NOT to go to the Ukraine to fight. https://nordicresistancemovement.org/a-message-to-all-nationalists-thinking-of-going-to-fight-in-ukraine/
We have to roll our eyes when heads of state use convoluted jargon about ‘Nazis’, but here we should be able to discuss the situation without this loaded language.
Yeah. Unexpected and important information. It turns out that the Banderites are such second-rate ersatz Nazis.
Most of the world will go with whatever Russia says, because they have been oppressed by the West. If Putin says, that he is fighting aliens that have taken human form among Ukranians, most of us will start saying that the Ukranians have aliens in their midst, and knowingly know that is is BS, but we do not care, the empire of lies must fall at any cost. Putin has taken the mantle, most of us will back him. If Putin says that Ukraine has. Zombie infestation problem that poses a risk to the World, we will fight Zombies from wherever we can and back Russia in their fight against the Z zombie outbreak.
Sure the press is loud, online activists aggressive in their rhetoric, but for those of us who have been against the empire of lies, that just makes us angrier and louder, we will not turn because we know that the Empire of Lies is twisted, perverted, corrupt. They are deluded, and their thought process is screwed. More people turn from the Western narrative than towards the Western narrative.
The pr war is being waged and it seems the luaus are winning, because within all the noise and smoke we can’t see that they are the ones that are losing, we have to count are winnings and losses when we are able to, not before.
Every time I read idiocy coming from the West my resolve gets stronger, and theirs weaker, they lose position, let them lie loudly, let’s give them even more volume and people to hear their lies, if they say the ghost of kiev, we say yes he is a great hero, so that when it gets known that he is a fantasy people turn from their lies, some will double down and say it is for moral, so lying is good but many will not, be patient this war is in its infant stages.
Indeed, I do believe we are witnessing the spasms that accompany the end of a Big Lie.
I agree with the stance of amplifying ridiculous Western lies.
Rather than just debunking obvious lies – which only makes them cope and turn to the next lie – make the lie louder, better known, point out who said it and celebrate the lie before it comes crashing down and exposed.
It is what Russian media does.
Specifically RT is good at that. When a Western politician lies or says something ridiculously stupid, they quote it multiple times and make sure that everybody heard it and that everybody knows who said it before debunking it.
Take the children-in-theater story. According to Ukrainians nobody died in that incident (they called it a miracle) even thought that 1200 children were in the building.
Show the picture of the building and shout: “Here, 1200 people were in the basement of this small building, it got bombed and they still survived! Glory to the Ukraine! If you don’t believe this you are a Russian bot!”
For all the people who just get news-snippets by propaganda media and never know the whole story, it is an eye opener.
Ghost of Kiev? Hell yeah! A big Ukrainian hero! Look at this Arma 3 video game footage! It is totally real life and whats happening in Kiev right now!
Amplify the lies so much that everybody who actually believed it feels stupid.
But i strictly disagree with the stance that it doesn’t matter what Russia says is the motivation for that war. There is no need to make up stuff here. We should not do Empire of Lies style ridiculous made up stuff just because we can.
“I agree with the stance of amplifying ridiculous Western lies.”
You are mistaken – it is preferable to allow them to amplify ridiculous lies themselves, but not by “intervening” except through silence, to which they will try to fill with amplifications of Western lies.
“We should not do Empire of Lies style ridiculous made up stuff just because we can.”
The Russian Federation doesn’t do this, and this has been policy of the group engaged in the transcendence of “The Soviet Union” since 1969, by what subsequently became the Russian Federation which post 1969 was designed/perceived as a vehicle to transcend “The Soviet Union” the bridge being known temporarily as the CIS.
The purpose from inception was not to emulate “the Soviet Union” in modified form as useful fools including Mr. Gorbachov whom Mr. Andropov pretended to be his protege to upset some factions in the Politburo, wished to do – first perestroika then glasnost when perestroika didn’t work, in conjunction with the anti-alcohol campaigns, which increased the knowledge of the narod of how they had been screwed for 70 years and their sobriety to process the new information.
That “the Soviet Union” was understood to be unsustainable for many reasons, and on implosion that many tourists would try to make hay, was the motivation of growing sum of some in 1969 and subsequent.
With all respect to Ramin, I think it makes no difference what we call the violent extremists who took over Ukraine in 2014, the Western press denies that anything bad occurred or that the post-Maidan authorities do not have hearts of pure gold. I’ve brought up established and referenced facts only to have Snopes or some equivalent grunted back at me. Troops marching around with SS symbolism is simply “kids having a laugh.” Recently I’ve heard that Ukraine has “laws against Nazism.”
To anyone with an open enough mind, I believe it is fair and worthwhile to bring up the word “Nazi” and then back it up with provable facts; to those that aren’t, I haven’t seen any phrasing of it that worked so far. The Ukrainians are the lastest Hollywood heroes.
In the presence of gibberish, it’s important to remain silent. The gibbering have to get their ideal to strive for from somewhere.
How about this?:
Neo-nazis = western ones
Legacy-nazis = Ukrainian ones
Alt-nazis = Jewish ones
This is a pointless article. It’s like saying it would be more effective to pronounce tomato like ‘tomayto’ rather than ‘tomarto’.
The population of the collective west aren’t misled by their media. They’re willfully ignorant. They’re relatively comfortable, well-fed and understand on an instinctive level that their good living comes from living off the rest of the world.
I live in the west and see it every day from almost every person I come into contact with. They do not want to know about anything that will affect their comfortable lifestyles & incomes. And will denounce any alternative views that challenge the official narrative.
They are not victims, conned or innocents. They are the modern-day version of the ‘good German’ who actively support the actions of their governments.
They do not care if millions or billions outside the west have to live in poverty, misery or die, as long as it doesn’t affect their comfortable lifestyles.
Yes, they make the right noises about tolerance, fairness, equality, human rights, free speech etc. The caveat is those ‘values’ must not affect their ability to live good at the expense of the rest of the world.
The only exceptions you’ll find are immigrants or citizens of foreign descent who haven’t sold out to western values.
So the author of this article has wasted his time basically arguing that the reason Russia’s side of the story hasn’t been effective in the collective west, is that they didn’t use the right buzzwords, or the terminology wasn’t nuanced enough!
“The only exceptions you’ll find are immigrants or citizens of foreign descent who haven’t sold out to western values.”
Some of whom are dying salesmen and immigrants who wished they would have stayed home, and now are returning in increasing numbers.
“So the author of this article has wasted his time basically arguing that the reason Russia’s side of the story hasn’t been effective in the collective west, is that they didn’t use the right buzzwords, or the terminology wasn’t nuanced enough!”
No, at base the criticism is that the Russians are incapable of “independent thought” and don’t recognise and emulate the “golden standard of propaganda” that of “The United States or America” or even “The Soviet Union”, an illusion shared by many tourists:
” “The Jaw-Dropping Power of US Propaganda”
Evaluation is a function of purpose and one of the purposes of “US propaganda” is to facilitate the sustainability, in slightly modulated forms if required, of coercive social relations self-misrepresented as “The United States of America”.
Evaluation is simultaneously a function of facility, including methods of evaluation and scope of datastreams subjected to methods of evaluation, and notions of causal interactions/relationships.
To paraphrase Mr. Marx most “philosophers” described the world where the point is to change it, where as some change it by implementing rigorous tested philosophies/strategies.
On analyses that can in limited form be tested, it appears that for some the jaw-dropping power of US Propaganda renders them more comatose and bereft of informed agency, whilst some compare propaganda and their experience and wish to return to a time which never existed, whilst others subjected to the actions of Us – the “others” – are rendered more motivated to engage in lateral change in co-operation with others, since they perceive this as the most viable option to continue their existence – the ones who “lie” to evaluators whilst in different contexts of opportunity kill them.
In growing effect the jaw-dropping power of US Propaganda renders potential pre-disposed supporters even more comatose and reliant on hopes, whilst simultaneously encouraging the coalescence and resolve of their opponents to transcend the “Us” with the minimum of blowback.
Consequently in significant measure the jaw-dropping power of US Propaganda decreases the informed agency of potential pre-disposed supporters whilst simulaneously increasing the coalescence and hence agency of the opponents of “Us”.
The jaw-dropping power of US Propaganda lies in the sawing of branches upon which they are supported whilst simultaneously increasing the opponents who can make use of such “unforeseen consequences” thereby defeating its purpose, facilitating their dropping not restricted to jaws.
In different register:
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall
All the King’s horses and all the King’s men
Couldn’t put Humpty together again.”
The above was understood in less detail by some in 1969 in posing the question “How to drown a drowning man with the minimum of blowback ?”, as was your observation above on potentials for “international solidarity” namely:
“I live in the west and see it every day from almost every person I come into contact with. They do not want to know about anything that will affect their comfortable lifestyles & incomes. And will denounce any alternative views that challenge the official narrative”
which afforded and continues to afford opportunities of drowning a drowning man with the minimum of blowback and why at no point did the Russian Federation ever wish to reconstitute “The Soviet Union”.
How about NWO Nazis (New World Order Nazis)?
“How about NWO Nazis (New World Order Nazis)?”
https://www.voltairenet.org/article216161.html
Of some merit but by no means omniscient.
“why is America still supporting Nazi to this day?”
America is two continents and so in large parts Americans are not supporting NAZI’s to this day except under duress and/or mutual interest, possibly like Mr. Z and others in Ukraine.
In respect to the coercive social relations self mis-represented as “The United States of America” and their continuing relations with NAZI’s:
Partly NAZIs are force multipliers with useful histories/viabilities who can do some things that their principals can plausibly deny and/or bully others into memory loss.
The actions of the “United States of America’s” proxies in Ukraine are more tempered than they had/have been in other locations and times; Indonesia 1965 and subsequent in relation to the “overseas Chinese” facilitated casualties of circa 1 million (1,000,000) becoming part of the playbook under the title “The Jakarta Method”.
You may find this implausable belief as a function of we-the-people-hold-these-truths-to-be-self-evidentness, but a component part of the present hysteria of “the American elites” are functions of pondering when their attempts at bullying no longer have “purchase” – what will be for afters?
In April 1945 the SD represented by Mr. Karl Wolff was fortunate in being able to avail himself/themselves for opportunities previously prepared by others often in Switzerland, to reach an agreement on or about the 4th of May 1945 with Mr. Allen Dulles (apparently acting for and on behalf no one in particular) for the surrender of German forces in Northern Italy and Southern Austria including the SS and its SD component, the latter two being offered anonymity and gainful employment in various locations world-wide.
However a question presently pondered in some “American” quarters is : when “The United States of America” implodes who will offer them/us the same courtesies afforded the SS and SD in 1945.
The former proxies are not considered since they have always been expendable, as has most of the population of “The United States of America”. It appears that Ms. Nuland was quite promiscuous not limiting her activities to the EU.
Since a major facilitator of “The Petro Dollar” recently declined to increase oil supply to “The United States of America” things apparently do not augur well.
Perhaps this was partly responsible for Ms. Nuland’s wriggling in front of the senate hearing, and afford some “expert” to suggest this is an opportunity for “The United States of America” to co-operate with “Russians” in some form to eradicate the evidence and persons of embarassment, as was apparently the case in Munich in 1959 in respect of Mr. Bandera, his subsequent discples not being fully appraised of developments. After all the Russian Federation is really the Soviet Union or wants to be.
Some are of the view that this was an early roll-out by the CIA of the Guevara gambit – first help kill the useful fool and facilitate the ascension of the cadaver into sainthood, so other useful fools can follow his mistakes – the Condor programme refers.
There is NO ‘Russian PR-disaster’ to fix, just an unheard-of level of propaganda and absence of dissident, really journalistic voices, in France and throughout the West.
Putin did enough with “denazification”.
Nobody here in the west likes a nazi, be it a soup-nazi, grammer-nazi, fun-nazi, etc.
The media shows the story line of those it supports. The average Joe in ‘Murika gets his news from the mainstream media.
Putin has no pull with western media so irregardless of his reasons for going into Ukraine, he lost the PR battle from the get-go.
Here in Oklahoma I counter those who weep for Ukraine by asking them this simple question… “so you support nazis?” They visibly recoil to the question by sputtering media narratives. I just reiterate by saying those in control of Ukraine are nazis. Then leave it at that and bring up the weather.
“Putin has no pull with western media so irregardless of his reasons for going into Ukraine, he lost the PR battle from the get-go.”
The Russian Federation did not fight or lose the PR battle; they didn’t engage in any PR battle, although through self-projection some opponents believed/believe that they did.
The coercive social relations self-misrepresented as “The United States of America” fought and is fighting the PR battle against the world including themselves, since some ponder “Do you think your opponent is as stupid as your are?”
whilst others believe that it is not necessary to pose such questions since we the people hold these truths to be self-evident.
” I just reiterate by saying those in control of Ukraine are nazis.”…. “regardless of his reasons for going into Ukraine”.
Your are mistaken, they are no longer in control to the same degree and this is lessening – one of the reasons for the Russian Special Operation in Ukraine as decided by the State Duma of The Russian Federation, the Security Council of the Russian Federation and many others.
Hello Ramin
Perhaps make it a positive rather than a negative?
Re-humanisation (for the humanists)
Re-socialisation (for the socialists)
Re-enlightenment (for the atheists and scientists)
Re-awakening (for the spiritualists)
etc, etc…