Today, as soon as I published the appeal by Strelkov I got comments apparently telling me (“sorry Saker”) that Strelkov was not very credible. Now that I have also posted a report about Iazov’s views, I suppose that others will accuse me of “waiting too long” or for, as always, “worshiping Putin”. So, again – I have done so many times already – I will try to explain my personal position on these issues.
First, the fact that I post something here does not, repeat, not mean that I endorse it or agree with it. All you can conclude from me posting here is that I find what I post of interest, either factual, or as a possible contribution to an intelligent discussion.
Second, my position on Strelkov and other Novorussian sources. I will be honest with you, I rate the public information record of Strelkov, ANNA news, Golos Sevastopolia and others as completely inadequate, primitive and unreliable. I am, in fact, immensely frustrated by this. But I am also aware that not only are these guys not PR pros, they are not even amateurs. They are trying their very best and their very best is the best I can get for this blog. Who am I to decide not to post something here only because it is poorly presented or because the source has already made widely exaggerated claims?! We are not talking about a poorly made report about the latest results from the World Cup in Brazil or tennis from Wimbledon. We are talking about reports made by people who undeniably put their lives at risk (very much including the folks at ANNA-news and all other real journalists) and who are working in horrendous circumstances. Furthermore, in a war zone the people on the ground often know less than the folks safely hidden in underground bunkers or outside the conflict area altogether. Also, and this is always overlooked, folks in a warzone are often very severely sleep deprived. So many Strelkov really thinks that by his statements he can save the lives of some of his men? He might even sincerely believe that a Russian intervention is necessary. The bottom line is this: Stelkov, ANNA-news and the others are giving us what they can, it is their very best effort, and that is all that I have to oppose to the phenomenally sophisticated, multi-billion dollar worldwide propaganda network of the AngloZionist Empire.
Have you seen the footage of the Novorussian soliders taking old WWII tanks (a T-34 and a IS-1) off their plinths, cleaning them and, amazingly, re-starting their engines (which says a lot about the quality of Soviet weapons!)? One of the NDF soliders said to the camera “sure its old, but it can still shoot straight through a APC“. Well, the same goes for the information war, which I have to fight it with what I have, not with what I wish I had. This is why I will continue to post views in favor and against a direct Russian intervention, and why I will continue to post ANNA-news or Strelkov reports as long as they are available. I will not post facts which I know are false, nor will I deliberately lie, of course. But censoring Strelkov on the grounds that his credibility is shaky at best? Nope, that would be morally wrong.
As for my personal position it is this:
In my heart I felt that a Russian intervention was justifiable and needed as soon as I heard Poroshenko’s inauguration speech. I fact, I had predicted that it would happen within days. It did not. Well, even though it did not, my heart still believes that it should have happened right then, and that it for sure should happen right now, that waiting any further is both morally and pragmatically wrong.
In my mind, I am much more cautious. As soon as I heard Poroshenko’s inauguration speech I did conclude that Russia had no other choice but to intervene. To my surprise, that intervention never materialized, at least overtly. As a ex-professional military analyst I know that there are some explanations for this which make sense, other which don’t. Explanations such as “Putin is a coward” or “Putin was bought off” are, what I call “Gunfight at the OK Corral” kind of explanations: simple, clear and ideally adapted to a primitive Hollywood western movie type of plot. In real life, things are much more complex and the reality is that Putin, along with his Security Council, has made a judgment call with which one can agree or not, but which does not have to be simplified and reduced to “Gunfight at the OK corral” type of level.
For example, we know that the Russian intelligence services conducted covert polls in Crimea which assured them that the support for a Russian intervention was even higher than what they had predicted. Putin himself revealed that. We can be absolutely sure that such covert polls were also conducted – and still are – in the Donbass. What we do not know is what these polls show. So let’s make a simple thought experiment, in particular with those of you who are categorically in favor of a Russian intervention. Would you still support a Russian intervention if you found out that only 60% of the people in Novorussia wanted it? What about 50%? Or 45%? What if it was only 30% or even less? Keep in mind that, at least so far, the worst hit by the Ukie invasion are small towns while the majority of the population lives in the bigger cities. Also keep in mind that a good chunk of the locals work in companies belonging to the oligarch Renat Akhmetov who is categorically opposed to an intervention and who declared that he would not pay salaries to those who go on strike or do not work. Are you still convinced that a majority of Novorussians want an intervention? And assuming that yes, did you ever ask yourself what else they might want? What if they also want Russia to pay for their social services (Kiev sure ain’t!), what if they want Russia to pay for the complete reconstruction of the region? Do you believe that Russia ought to pay for what was destroyed by Nazis under US control?
I was recently listening to a very interesting panel of experts discussing Crimea and it is pretty clear that while Russia has the means and the will to make Crimea prosperous again, it is also rather obvious that this will take time and that in the initial stage Crimea is a mess and a heavy burden for the Russian economy (it’s mid to long term prospects are fantastic – no worries here).
There is another factor to consider: what will happen to the rump-Ukraine (aka “Banderastan”) and even the rest of the EU if Russia intervenes directly. Let’s make one more thought experiment, ok?
Say the Russian intervene – they basically destroy all of the Ukrainian armed forces and national guard within, say 48 hours. I don’t mean just the forces in the Donbass, I mean all of it. Just like they did in Georgia. In Georgia the Russians did not have to enter Tbilissi or or Batumi to basically completely disarm Saakashvili. They could do that in the Ukraine too: encircle and destroy all the forces in the East and use air and missile strikes to destroy whatever is left in the rest of the country from the western border of Novorussia to the Polish border. Then what?
Well, the Novorussians would be safe, and I would be drinking Champagne with my wife. But what would happen to the rest of the Ukraine? It would be disarmed and totally cut-off from the Donbass and Crimea. It’s economy would have collapsed (it will anyways, no matter what the Russians do) and nobody out there will have the money to pay for a reconstruction. Heck, nobody out there would even have a plan on how to resurrect a dead economy. Who do you think would fare best and be in power then? That’s right – the extremists. So just imagine a President Iarosh backed by Prime Minister Kolomoiski ruling their Nazi Banderastan with the help of their death squads. Can you imagine what the pressure would be on Russia to take further action? And, in the meantime, you can bet that NATO would go into full-paranoia mode, with possibly US and Polish forces sent to “protect” and “defend” the “Ukrainian people” from the “Russian imperialist bear and Czar Putin”. In the meantime, Russia would have to shoulder the full price-tag for such an immensely expensive operation while also paying for the resurrection of the Donbass economy. As for the Russian military, not only would it have to deal with the inevitable anti-Russian partisan movement in the part of the Ukraine it would control, it would also have to worry about deterring an always theoretically possible US aggression while at the same time avoiding making things worse and preventing a WWV (if WWIII was Cold War, and WWIV is the current one, then the next one would be WWV, right?).
And what do you think would be happening in the EU if the scenario above plays itself out? Not only would the EU economy collapse (it might do so even without a war in the Ukraine or sanctions against Russia), but NATO would further squeeze its iron claws so deep into the Body of Europe that it would be secure for decades. The EU would turn into a US protectorate for the duration for yet another Cold/Warm War which, again, could last for decades and waste a truly phenomenal about of human and financial resources.
Do you really want that?
Oh I can already hear the armchair strategists pounding their fists in indignation at, well, their armchairs, and saying:” but that is not at all what we are saying, we only support a limited intervention“. Oh yeah? Let’s look at these a little more closely.
Usually, the defenders of the limited intervention scenario offer three options, or a combination thereof:
a) a no-fly zone.
b) a rapid in-and-out operation.
c) an intervention limited “only” to the Donbas and not a step further.
All three of these options suffer form the same fatal flaw. They assume that the other side will play ball and accept the limited nature of that intervention. Take the no-fly zone. It is an act of war and the Ukies would be fully justified in retaliating against it, no only in the Donbass, but elsewhere. So what would you do if you were the Russian President, you declared a no-fly zone over the Donbass, your forces easily shoot out a number of Ukie airplanes out of the sky and if the Ukie President decided to begin lobbing missiles at Sebastopol or Rostov-on-the-Don? Would you expand the no-fly zone to the Zaparozhskaia Oblast? What about the ground to ground missiles, would you allow airstrikes to hunt them down like the US tried to do with Saddam’s Scuds?
The fact is that these so-called “limited” options have a huge tendency to grow in most unpredictable and, usually, painful manner.
No offense to anybody, but I have to be blunt here: the so-called “limited operations with no boots on the ground” are a myth created by the US propaganda machine to justify US interventions worldwide. And, to the extend that they truly can contribute to make a bad situation infinitely worse, they do kinda “work” for the US, but since Russia’s goal is not just to make things worse in the Ukraine, but to make them better, these limited operations are most certainly not some kind of obvious panacea or even a good choice.
As for the US, which has been using such “limited” interventions from Vietnam to Libya, when was the last time when such a limited intervention stayed limited or made things better for the country “hosting” it?
Does that mean that I am opposed to a Russian intervention?
No, not at all. What the above means is that unlike some commentators and bloggers I am aware of the infinitely complex and numerous factors which must be considered before the decision to send in Russian forces is made. What the above means is that I am aware of at least some, but not all, of the implications of such a situation. This means that while Russia might have to intervene, the fact that the Kremlin tries has hard as possible to avoid such a move is a sign of wisdom, not of cowardice, stupidity or betrayal.
My gut tells me that the US is so hell-bent on confrontation that Russia will have no other choice than to intervene, possibly by imposing a no-fly zone first. The sad reality is that while peace takes two, war takes only one, and when I listen to the psychopathic freaks in Kiev I have no hope at all for peace. There cannot be peace with Nazis any more than with Wahabis: the only way to deal with these freaks its to offer them a simple choice: desist or die. That is a terrible thing to say, and it goes deeply against my personal inclinations, but that is the terrible personal conclusion to which I have come.
By the way, Russia tried to ignore the Wahabi crazies in Chechnia and they proved Russia wrong. Russia also tried to ignore Saakashvili and his crazies, and they proved Russia wrong. Now Russia is trying hard to ignore the Nazis in Banderastan, and I don’t see any reason believe that this time around this will work. But also please notice this, Russia did not really intervene in Chechnia until the Russian public opinion was fully and totally supportive for such an intervention. Russia did not intervene in South Ossetia until the Russian public opinion was fully in favor of that operation too (although that is harder to prove, considering that Russia did only wait 24 hours before deciding to really go after Saakashvili rather than just protect or evacuate the Russian peacekeepers). It might well be that Putin and his advisers have already come to the conclusion that an overt intervention is inevitable, but that they are waiting for the public opinion in Russia and even in Novorussia to really back that option.
Again, me? I am all for it. Now. But I am nobody and my opinion is irrelevant. This is a judgment call to make for those who truly have all the fact and who will shoulder the responsibility for making (or not making) that call. Not me, not you, not even Mr Strelkov or Mr Glazev: that is a decision which can only be made by the Russian Security Council and, in the end, by Putin.
I really don’t envy him.
The Saker
PS: I suppose that some frankly stupid or simply dishonest and hostile commentators or bloggers still will manage to take a sentence out of context and make me say something I never did. Or they will personally attack me again as if I had a say in what the Kremlin decides. Frankly, I am tired of dealing with all sorts of strawman arguments and of trying to set the record straight. Folks, contrary to what you seem to think, I am not a Kremlin spokesman (that would be Mr. Peskov) nor does being aware of the complexities of the real world out there automatically make me a Putin apologist. For those of you who have simple and obvious solutions I have just this to say: “good for you, now please go to your room and let the adults continue their conversation”.
Was posted before but is likely to have been drowned in the psy-op spam accumulating in the other threads:
A leaked memorandum from the RAND corporation think tank suggests the Ukrainian govt should engage in an all-out war in eastern regions, including shutting down all communications, putting citizens in internment camps and kill all who resist such actions.
The RAND Corporation is non-profit global think tank which offers research and analysis to the US armed forces.
In the shocking letter, which has been leaked to the press, the advice offers a step by step brutal guide in how to deal with the population in eastern Ukraine.
Leaked: US think-tank plan on E. Ukraine suggests internment camps, executions – RT news
B.
Speaking of psy-ops, here’s another one:
Something is clearly going on around the border of Abkhazia, which broke away from Georgia proper in the early 1990s after a bloody conflict. Mobius Industries USA, Inc. is hiring Georgian-speaking Cultural Advisor/Roleplayers in the US to help support America’s Military’s Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) Program.
Mobius Defense claims to be in continuous search of Professional Role Players from all cultures, but in its list of desired cultures and languages there is no mention of Georgian. As this list was compiled in 2012, Georgian is a new addition to its portfolio.
Abkhazia: a “false flag” in the making? – NEO
B.
A beautiful Memorial to the Donbass martyrs.
Lost Donbass People
Makes arguing moot.
If the faces of the kids don’t break your heart . . .
It’s not in my language, but it’s absolutely clear.
I found it on Politikus.ru
Have you not erected a straw man? What is needed is the mother of all covert aid. Russia controls the border. They can funnel whatever they want to the militia.
But in the larger sense Russia absolutely CANNOT model itself on the United States. It cannot go from country to country changing regimes, increasing the flow of opium by orders of magnitude into the veins of the world’s youth (Afghanistan), etc.
I believe that Putin, above all things, wishes to avoid being Obama and his team.
http://rt.com/news/170572-rand-east-ukraine-plan/
This link could help all those who stiil doubt the ugly fact that there is a “hot” world war – a war that an openly fascist cabal of corporate and militarist freaks wages against all the humankind and the future of our civilization.
Read this, and then come and tell us again that the war against fscism and nazism is all in the distant past. My late father, God rest his soul, fought against nazis in WWII. He would answer you with one word only – “Morons”.
Vladimir from Bulgaria
A tiny bit of history…
On July Fourth, the people of the United States extravagantly celebrate the high-blown expressions on human rights that Thomas Jefferson penned in the Declaration of Independence – especially the noble phrase “all men are created equal.” But Jefferson really didn’t believe that or much else that he said and wrote during his lifetime. He was, in reality, a skilled propagandist and a world-class hypocrite.
Yet, rather than subject Jefferson to a rigorous examination for his multiple hypocrisies, many Americans insist on protecting Jefferson’s reputation. From the Left, there is a desire to shield the lofty principles contained in the Declaration. From the Right, there is value in pretending that Jefferson’s revisionist concept of the Constitution – one favoring states’ rights over the federal government – was the “originalist” view of that founding document.
Thomas Jefferson: America’s Founding Sociopath – Consortium News
B.
Thank you Saker – a clear and logical presentation.
I would like to add that Putin may be waiting for –
1) a very sharp change un public opinion not just in Russia and Novorossiya, but elsewhere like in Odessa and other parts of Ukraine – going very hungry and cold will change opinions.
2) also wait for a massive outrage in European public opinion. That may be starting – it was reported that the German media is beginning to shift emphasis to covering the suffering of the civilians being bombed and killed.
Finally – I would like your opinion of the veracity of the Rand Corporation report which outlines a plan on how to bring the rebellious east under control with savagery of various kinds, including camps – the plan seems so over the top that it is looks like bad fiction, not even a legitimate trial balloon. Even if it were a genuine plan – the resources to carry it out are not there.
— Medea
Bakunin:
Regarding the Rand Memo. Thank you for posting. Horrifying reading though.
Really makes you wonder who these people are in the US who sit down at a desk and calmy write up a memo adovcating murder, theft, genocide and ethnic cleansing as something to become official US/Ukraine state policy.
The overall plan doesn’t sound too different from what Minister of Defense Mikhailo Koval adovcated in the Ukrainian Parliament a couple of weeks ago. That he was sacked by President Petro$ makes you think that the problem with the plan is perhaps it is not radical enough, in comparison to, say, Yulia Timoshenko’s solution of nuking Donbass.
Right, Russia has to create a long-term solution, not just solve a short-term problem. Europe must be involved because there has to be a process to manage the changes over the next years, decades. What is happening now is just the beginning. The Kiev Nazi terror state that is developing is not sustainable. At some point, Russia will have to intervene and probably in cooperation with Germany and France. By that time, the Russian and Novorussian publics will be more unified, if only due to the ongoing slaughter. Novorussia itself becomes more legitimate with every war crime.
The hell of it is, who is dying now. That is a moral responsibility that is impossible to bear.
And the real problem is the conflict with the USA.
America is reponsible for what is happening in Ukraine.
To those who complain about the unreliability of Strelkov’s statements. It has to be remembered that, unlike the others, Strelkov is not a news agency. His aim is not to report the situation truthfully and fully. He presents certain information in certain ways to achieve certain goals. Back when the flood of outsiders on the forum he posts was only a trickle, the advisability of disclosing certain information was questioned. Strelkov’s reply was, literally: “Do not worry, I know what I am writing and who is reading.” This has to be kept in mind. You need to think not only about what he is saying, but also about why he is saying it. The man is ex-FSB and, based on his past statements, he is aware of how information warfare works. This of course does not mean that his statements are lies and that none of them are simple cries from the heart.
Please Saker look into this.
Evidence that the RAND CORPORATION(LEAKED DOCS) http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=221264&d=1404505125 http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=221265&d=1404505152 These are the people running the thing for corporate greed unbeliveable CFR links.
I’m very sad to say it ,but Russia can afford to lose the battle for Novorussiya in order to win the war with the US. The Ukraine conflict is like one of those dragon heads. The more you keep cutting it off, the faster it grows back. Russia needs to kill the dragons heart -the dollar hegemony. Once it is done the whole world can rejoice and move forward without any false bullshit attached to it, including Kiev. Life will improve for everybody, because the world will be focused on building the real wealth as oppose to financial fraud.
Dear Saker,
Peace, dear Slavic brother …
In the Hindu scriptures, the warrior Arjuna asks God (Krishna – also his chariot driver!), after being told he cannot avoid war, ‘Will the war be on the battlefield, or in my heart?’ And Krishna replies, ‘I really do not see much difference …’ the scene in brief video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ205esn7qE
As an old Buddhist saying goes, you should meditate each day for 20 minutes … except if you are really busy and pressed with urgent matters, in which case you should meditate for one hour.
Or, in other words pause and do not be concerned so much with nasty critics … it is a sign of your doing significant work at the moment.
But also, that giving ‘reasons’, ‘reasoning’ is important … but ‘reasons’ spiral to a dead-end if not rooted.
On just a raw intuitive level, something is absolutely, terribly ‘wrong’ with Putin letting hundreds, thousands of Russians being killed on his doorstep. No ‘reason’ makes sense here in fact.
To me, this is one of the most frightening geo-political facts to erupt in recent years. The world seems different, much worse to me now, as if much more destruction will befall all of us.
Part of your anger and upset, may be that your heart agrees with the critics more than you would like to admit.
funny. saker is getting caught in politics. in order to protect “putin” or the moscov line he now has to go after strelkov. guys: learn one thing: it is all and only about power and almost never about what you believe in.
older folks remember this from the former USSR. Same approach. I am sick of the central committees line. Anybody with me?
let us see if this get censored.
By the way, Russia tried to ignore the Wahabi crazies in Chechnia and they proved Russia wrong. Russia also tried to ignore Saakashvili and his crazies, and they proved Russia wrong.
I’m not really sure what you’re going about here, Saker. Didn’t Russia eventually fight both the Takfiri in Chechnya and Saakashvili in Georgia? How did fighting them constitute ‘ignoring’ them? Weren’t you yourself just trying to point out that refusing to intervene too soon, or under the wrong cicumstances could be a serious mistake?
RT reports the Germans have arrested a man for spying for the US. France is discussing non dollar denominated transactions. Maybe Europe is ready to break free… Surely too hopeful but maybe they will back Russia in Ukraine. They seem to be trying to do so.
Dear Saker – don’t let postings get under your skin. You are providing information, opinions, and a platform. People attacking you for those things are misdirecting their energy. Don’t misdirect yours.
Back in times of Iraq War a lot of “conservative” (bastards) radio talk show hosts have one remedy for those pesky callers who had temerity to rise the question of international and domestic law violation.
They asked – Is the world better off without Hussein?
Any tries to explain from callers side where cut “next caller please”.
You used the same type of demagogy asking:
Do you really want that?
No, me/we do not want that, but we want this – to be treated by Saker more seriously. Left demagogy to “kitchen politics” back in your home.
I suggest one more thought experiment.
Russia behaves accordingly to the US blueprint (RAND papers). She steps back and allows genocide.
All those who would like to run away to Russia would be stopped and closed in concentration camps, reeducation camps or filtration camps. All rivers of refugees would stop and those left in southeast Ukraine were tortured and indoctrinated to never rise hand against “Yedinaya Ukrayina”.
Is Russian population so apathetic to let it go that way? I don’t think so, it is not now, as you wrote many times, and will not in the future. Russians are boiling with rage at present allegedly. What about the 5th and 6th columns which would be turn on immediately by the US to topple Mr. Putin. Then welcome back from the future in dark times of 90s?
Entering Ukie soil is bad, not entering as well.
But you omitted legitimacy of entering. What about recognition of New Russia – first helping them to formalize it. Perhaps administratively they are ready to be recognized already?
And the high price of her indifference and indolence will make her to pay, in all scenarios – whether she enters or not, whether US will react or not.
Russia made a gigantic blunder not be prepared for Ukraine occupation by the US. Now she pays, and will pay a lot. Dodging the fact will cost her more, a lot more.
I would not bet on Europe leaders. The US have the tools to make them meek as kittens (too horrible to name them here).
But she must decide now, before human loses and infrastructure damages in New Russia are too great. In case of war the infrastructure will be destroyed for sure, but such intervention, before Ukie gains strength (and they will, otherwise) would not be more detrimental to Russia than what was inputed to calculation of entering troops to Ukraine now.
Russia must make step forward and left behind her defensive position. The politics of wait-and-see is a slippery road on a slope to a river of blood. She must be on the offensive, including military actions.
In short, for her own stupidity Russia is cornered now. She must pay anyway.
I claim the cost would be lesser if she decide what to do with New Russia now, taking into consideration the price, however high she has set it on herself.
The US did not do it, they only used the chance which had opened before them. Americans have their own interests (e.g. collapse of Russia) and everyone should keep it in mind.
fuck you, fuck your bullshit analysis and FUCK PUTIN.
“PS: I suppose that some frankly stupid or simply dishonest and hostile commentators or bloggers still will manage to take a sentence out of context and make me say something I never did.”
No matter about, this is your blog and the annoying guests should be banned
re the RAND memorandum:
Unsurprisingly, RAND have issued a denial
===
RAND has produced no such document.
To see RAND’s actual research and commentary on Ukraine and Russia you could go here (http://www.rand.org/topics/ukraine.html) or here (http://www.rand.org/topics/russia.html).
Jeffrey Hiday, Director, Office of Media Relations, RAND Corporation
—
FWIW
Blowback will commence with withdrawal of Northern Transit Route rights for the US partners.
I don’t believe Russia, Putin, can or will allow the defeat of Novorussia. For a combination of military, political and spiritual reasons.
There is money pouring into the DPR. Billboards and anthems are appearing.
Let us take hope.
The RAND document making the rounds should be viewed sceptically as it may well be a forgery. The issue is that its language is too direct and detailed, whereas these types of things are commonly rife with euphemism. Also there are no headings or file identification, only a RAND logo. It seems, in all, too good to be true – and similar too-good-to-be true slam-dunk documents have in the past proven to be psy-op forgeries.
“But I am nobody and my opinion is irrelevant”
Humility is a basis for wisdom and so your opinion may become less irrelevant when shared and not given.
On 04 July, 2014 22:06 Andrew wrote:
[Rand Corp. memo]
Really makes you wonder who these people are in the US who sit down at a desk and calmy write up a memo adovcating murder, theft, genocide and ethnic cleansing as something to become official US/Ukraine state policy.
Well, market forces at work… Note the arguments on efficiency (cost saving measures). That’s why most corporations have strict top-down control and cannot but be described as privately held, unaccountable tyrannies. Their solutions to social problems are likely to reflect their totalitarian mindset.
The overall plan doesn’t sound too different from what Minister of Defense Mikhailo Koval adovcated in the Ukrainian Parliament a couple of weeks ago. That he was sacked by President Petro$ makes you think that the problem with the plan is perhaps it is not radical enough, in comparison to, say, Yulia Timoshenko’s solution of nuking Donbass.
That thought occured to me, too. It was modified to meet their demand for more death, destruction and posturing as invincible army. No need for curfews or actual trials. Just shoot everyone on sight, including their families…
B.
Let’s try another thought experiment….
Russia repeat the 2008 scenario as it played then.
Destroy the bulk of Ukrainian armed thugs (and friends) and their toys, kick the scum back to Kiev with a sacred terror installed deep inside, the “pregnant-women-stranglers-heroes” rediscover sobriety and decency, get rid of “Vic Nuland horror show” freaks and elect reasonable people, Novorossija is secured and everybody is happy (apart from McCain, who get a heart attack from rage, so that everybody is happier) and talk about the future can start….
My feeling is that there’s been a bit too much waiting, but maybe it’s not too late….
Let me suggest instead of questioning details of the RAND document, you consider the why.
If you are not familiar with the history of RAND rectifying this may help in the why enquiries.
@EVERYBODY: Anonymous posted: fuck you, fuck your bullshit analysis and FUCK PUTIN.
Can somebody explain to me why I this blog elicits such rage and hatred?! I am just an anonymous blogger sharing his views, and yet some folks truly seem to hate my guts. Sure, we are dealing with controversial and even painful topics here, but why can’t these guys just disagree with me, or ignore me, of make fun of me? They seem to really become overcome with rage. I am baffled, honestly, if somebody could explain to me what is going on here I would be most grateful.
The Saker
They are angry because your views and the views if those sympathetic to humanity present a truth which they understand in their hearts but which conflicts with their indoctrinated ideoligical views foisted upon them by the western propaganda apparatus. And ultimately this leaves them feeling weak and impotent and betrayed.
Not really able to understand when one can’t use words to communicate rather than profanity. Possibly you’ve hit a nerve that sent them over the edge. I do wish anonymous would have communicated what it was exactly that angered them to the point that all they could communicate was f you f you f you. That debate could have been interesting. Guess we’ll never know. Keep on doing what you do. Can’t please everyone and some people you can never please. Perhaps anonymous will take a deep breath and try again :)
@Saker 23:34,
I believe I can give a sliver of insight as to why some people might react that way to you: because you engage in indirect (and sometimes direct) attacks on readers that may disagree with somthing you posted or wrote: the tone in this posting of your is, at times, emotional, hostile and condescending of those who offer constructive criticism or even disbelief. Although I didn’t write that profane response I’ll admit for a brief instance I had a similar reaction (though not as extreme, more like: “GROAN.., and f—!”). Perhaps the individual, in question, is even more frustrated than you that Russia hasn’t sent the criminals in Kiev and their sadistic mercernaries straight to oblivion.
However, the fact that you can be a target of hostility I can relate to: For instance you singled me out (or people like me/ my opinion) with my “Sorry Saker” comment regarding Strelkov’s lack of honesty in past pronouncements. You shouldn’t get exasperated with readers/contributors like me for pointing such things out because WE ARE NOT TELEPATHIC and cannot read your mind to understand that you too take strelkov’s pronouncements with a grain of salt. It’s your blog, if you publish something, you own it (the assumption is that you agree with what you publish), unless you caveat it and explain your position in the beginining ( such as “here’s Strelkov’s latest, what do you guys think?”). Why? Because you can’t expect new readers to understand the nuances of your thinking. So you can either not get upset when people question some of what you post, or you can caveat such postings to make your position clear (I would elect for the former, but that’s just me).
Re: that the Kremlin doesn’t do so is a sign of wisdom not cowardice
I couldn’t agree more, it’s been my position from day one. However, unless the Russian leadership has solid info that even the resistance is part of an elaborate “conspiracy” to suck Russia into a quagmire or geo-economic trap (or something equally outlandish), it’ll very hard to justify why they are not helping more vigorously on the covert front. If President Putin and the rest of Russia’s leadership does not ramp up covert support both weapons, logistics, etc., then some may have to come to bitter conclusions. My own POV (as I’ve written before), that this (the Kremlin’s strategy) may have been charted out months into the future, taking into account the full-spectrum of Russian interests (economic geopolitical, etc) over multiple theaters of operations (Syria, Iraq, China, India, Iran, etc.).
It doesn’t help to attack people who are sympathetic to your point of view. When I see a woman, a mother, cut to pieces asking to make a last phone call (Inna Kukurudza) I see my own mother and the rage I feel is beyond description – murderous rage. I don’t see a Russian mother, i see my mother – same for a child, same for an unarmed man. So not for a moment do I and other readers, who may be critical once in a while, not feel for the case you are making. Please try to understand that. This is not a sport, people are dying, and the issue being discussed is bigger than individual hurt feelings.
fuck you, fuck your bullshit analysis and FUCK PUTIN.
==========================
Victoria, your vocabulary is somewhat limited…..
@Anonymous 04 July, 2014 22:15
You wrote:
“As an old Buddhist saying goes, you should meditate each day for 20 minutes … except if you are really busy and pressed with urgent matters, in which case you should meditate for one hour.”
Martin Luther, one of the fathers of protestantism, once said something like: Today I have so much to do that I must pray at least four hours to be able to do all of it!
I understand what you are saying. I read the Gita in my youth and know what Arjuna had to go through. Brother fighting brother and that reminds us of Ukraine.
However, Putin is not a soldier on the military battlefield. He is a statesman with responsibility for a whole country and also for foreign lands in this dangerous situation. This is the worst I have seen since NATO Commander Clark wanted to attack the Russian UN peacekeepers at the airport of Pristina in Kosovo in 1999. A British officer disobeyed orders and saved us all. Clark was sacked.
I made a mistake and posted this in another tread.
@Anonymous 04 July, 2014 22:15
You wrote:
“As an old Buddhist saying goes, you should meditate each day for 20 minutes … except if you are really busy and pressed with urgent matters, in which case you should meditate for one hour.”
Martin Luther, one of the fathers of protestantism, once said something like: Today I have so much to do that I must pray at least four hours to be able to do all of it!
I understand what you are saying. I read the Gita in my youth and know what Arjuna had to go through. Brother fighting brother and that reminds us of Ukraine.
However, Putin is not a soldier on the military battlefield. He is a statesman with responsibility for a whole country and also for foreign lands in this dangerous situation. This is the worst I have seen since NATO Commander Clark wanted to attack the Russian UN peacekeepers at the airport of Pristina in Kosovo in 1999. A British officer disobeyed orders and saved us all. Clark was sacked.
I am sure Putin personally would love nothing better than to totally shred the bastards in Kiev…he would love nothing better then to totally destroy and decapitate the entire group….leaving no one left for Victoria Nuland….John Kerry…Obama or anyone else in the dying Anglo-Zionist empire to conspire with or scheme against…Putin is Russian….he has seen what those very same Anglo-Zionist filth are capable of and will never allow the Russian Nation or members of that Culture/World to be forced down into a basement to be lined up shot and bayoneted to death….i can say no more!!!!
It really is horrifying, today I made an effort to catch the news on many UK TV channels from the BBC to C4, and not one mentioned Ukraine, the shelling and the killing NOT ONE!!
This makes me think that the info war has been stepped up, the Rand leaks are just part of this, but the corporate evil all points to the same tribe, from the CFR to Rand to Tavistock and Chathem House this has been planned and orchestrated down to the last detail, the MSM is part of the plan.
Saker thick skin and ignore the trolls mate, thank you for this blog and to the other people who post informative threads.
Hi Saker,
I don’t know why Russia don’t intervene, if this is a winning strategy or not. I don’t have information top secret or other, I know nothing at all of what is really happen. And I don’t believe EU will do anything against USA (see Junckers, a NATO agent, now at the vertex of EU). I think only this: if USA win then all of us lose. Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, Siria (am I forgiving anyother?) Ukraine… This is the All-In, win or slavery. Tertium non datur. This time there are no other chances. USA MUST be defeated, in a way or in another. I’m not able to give anything to the discussion, this is only a cry to hearth, like you say. Thank for your blog, it’s a referred point. Yes, I know, my english is a la Kunta Kinte, but I don’t like this language enough to study it.
Saker,
I fully understand that you are trying all that you can to explain what is unexplainable. I can see that you are a true Russian patriot. But even you say that your heart says one thing. Follow your heart. It is absolutely unacceptable, by any standards or means, that a country of Russia’s stature, history and role, allows such atrocities happening at it’s own doorstep. No geopolitics, no geostrategy, nothing can explain this. It is simply unacceptable. It is simple. Maybe Strelkov didn’t have enough sleep. So what? Does it mean that he is not right? Can anybody imagine seeing Nazis killing Americans in Canada or Mexico? Who are we kidding here. What can Serbia expect if people of Donbass can not get full Russian support. We were the only country attacked by Nato, ever, hoping, always hoping that maybe, maybe, one day, Russian brothers will come to our rescue. And what we can see now? Refugees escaping Russian territory to go to another Russian territory. Come on. Maybe I’m wrong but maybe it has something to do with all of the corrupt oligarchs whose families live in London. More I think about everything more I appreciate Comrade Stalin. I had to say that.
I am amazed to find here so many who are so manic compulsively focussed on one tragedy,Novorossyia,that they forget to look at the whole picture.We are at war here on a planetary level,from Nigeria to the “Ukraine”.The arc of instability is spreading like a pandemic .Syrians,Irakis,Palestinians for example are dying by the thousand.War today is not(till now)done in a traditional way,army against army but in a horrendous asymmetric way.It has been privatized,we have now hordes of monsters doing their bit for the dying hegemon.In a sense we are back to the Middle Age,with crazed mercenaries,be it of the wahabi-takfiri coloratura or the neonazi ones.What is at stake here is the end of a page of History that started 1495.That why the stakes are so enormous.Novorossyia is just one part of the multiple fronts that Russia and its Allies are facing.The zioanglo monster and its various allies are dying a sure death,that’s why they are so dangerous now.Have Faith in Russia,The Axis of Resistance and all the like minded countries that are battling against Zusa.Because frankly none of us here,not even the Saker have knowledge about what is really happening,the overt war,the covert one,the accommodation of allies,the real moves of the enemies.It stands to reason that we are all horrified about what is happening in term of massacres in Novorossya.I lost my sleep in 2011 with the horrible war against Syria and the integrity of my arab world.All we can all do is trying to understand the war,its sequences,its consequences.I know it is terribly frustrating ,we all have at heart people who share with us language,culture,religion but ask yourself:did it ever happen that a dying civilization as the zioanglo one win its horrible final wars?In its last bit for life it becomes erratic,over confident because it is in a state of panic.
A last think one should not overlook:the Russian government is the sum of recent dramatic History,Revival,Resurgence of a Great Power(definitely NOT in an zioanglo way),and the inheritor of a long history of resistance.One should also take in mind the psychology of the collective forces who are at the helm of Russia today,Putin being its manifestation.
Because of all the above we are not in the role of judges,we simply ignore too many facts.
Saker, you are starting to get some Ukropy trolls in addition to the NATO trolls, etc.
@EVERYBODY: Anonymous posted: fuck you, fuck your bullshit analysis and FUCK PUTIN.
SAKER you are doing a great job, this pathetic baiting is a sign you are effective:-)
This is for the Anonymous COWARD please read all 5 pages.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ukraine-s-Bandera-Propagan-by-George-Eliason-Civil-Defense_Congress-Failed-War–Oversight_Protest-Civil-Disobedience_Ukraine-140701-824.html
@”f you” comment
Saker, there is nothing to explain. Such people are simlpy lost souls with awful manners and very low intelligence. I wouldn’t even take it personally, wouldn’t even waste the tiniest bit of energy on it. Such people are like on autopilot, they aren’t even fully conscious when it such states of rage.
Don’t hate them, don’t even be sad. Just ignore. Energy is limited, don’t waste it.
well if this is not just a precious trope and you sincerely want a clue as to why your comments evoke such “rage and hate,” it may be that your recognition (by contrast with mainstream sources) of the unspeakable crimes being committed in Donbass coupled with your rationalizations of Putin’s betrayal strikes many as obscene
this is compounded by the cloying and sycophantic tone of your fan commentators on this heavily moderated forum
VINEYARDSAKER: said…04 July, 2014 23:34
I hope it’s not rhetorical.
No offense, you are overworked and you treat your blog too emotionally.
Both of you, vented frustration.
Maybe Anon betrayed deep disappointment? You showed deep letdown.
What is the cause of your state you must define yourself. Scrap of paper, a ball pen and off you go – point after point. :) You’ll find out. :)
Perhaps it’s hard for you to find in comment zone few interlocutors matching your operative mind?
You try to talk with your readers as if you were sitting with them at a table. Such free and easy talks can be carry on really at a table. Blog works other way. More simple expressions, not simplistic, but simple. Shorter analyses. One topic for one post. You can post 10 topics but through 10 posts. All without all important nuances and ramifications from main topic (important in your view). You do not see others’ eyes, faces, postures. Free talk comprises all the elements apart from spoken language. And the trivia – blog is anonymous.
Slow down a little, for a week at least. Read, follow up events but make blog a blog, not a place to deep analyses. Those should by like pearls – from time to time. But first of all slow down.
Regards
Ukraine is what if southstream succeeds?
Russia has spent capital and resources rescuing Syria
Syria has to fight thru the leverage game…endure
It was around 1 year before Syria was organized properly
and had its NDF cell system working…they held..as the
military could not be everywhere..and chaos was everwhere!
Until east ukie go west and bust the bully in the nose
the conflict will more mirror the Lebanon
you have conflict if you cross into territory
Lebanon accepted the fractured state reality
Ukraine will decide if its a country or some baron serf
set up
If Putin rolls over on Crimea…then its time to run him off
untill then…he is in a fix with supplying…funding..and new
military sales…or socio construction….when the banker world and ban
kee moon assail Russia at evety turn
Russia faces a future war where they will have to lace Europe
with intermeddiate range missiles….cruise missiles…and will
probably have to use some tactical nukes to show Nato how
insane it will fully get
US couldnt give a rip if europe burns one more time
Russia cant do the massed military thing…so its tactical
and would likely be pre emptive
certain troubling places and people….get a nuke
Russias patiently turning the ME towards signatory energy
and security partnership
eventually the Saudi and qatar get their come uppance
for intrigues and murder
Israel will be all alone then..with same view to them
as being the teflon trouble maker
Europe will view Russia and Iran diffrrently
if house of saud and co are ruined and burning
all it takes is a little shia 5th column effort
question is….do the shia have it in them
same for east Ukraine
going to sit and take it…or are you going to
fix the problem?
Not being there and knowing the details, I wont judge Strelkov, or his motivations and reasons. Or whether he is an accurate source. I agree that the info coming out of Novorossia is often very mixed up and contradictory, but that is the nature of things in a war zone. Especially a revolutionary war zone where organisation and good communications are still lacking a lot of cohesiveness. This is beyond the usual obvious fog surrounding trying to obtain accurate info in a war situation. There is really not anything we can do about it, except be willing to consider all of it neutrally, minus the obvious propaganda and rumours that seem implausible.
I wont claim Russia should intervene now, or not. Again because I don’t really know enough of what is going on with regard to the “big picture” seen by the Russian guv.
In my opinion, the situation with the Ukraine (and ZPC/NWO strategy running it) is different enough from that of 2008 Georgian aggression that the same solution would not work out.
The ZPC/NWO may have been counting on the Russians doing the same sort of response as in Georgia when they planned their Ukrainian terror, and prepared everything in response to that accordingly.
“Russia did not intervene in South Ossetia until the Russian public opinion was fully in favor of that operation too (although that is harder to prove, considering that Russia did only wait 24 hours before deciding to really go after Saakashvili rather than just protect or evacuate the Russian peacekeepers).”
This I do disagree with. The Georgians had been intermittently terrorising South Ossetians for quite some time (as ZPC minions always do). Had Russia just booted them out of South Ossetia, the sods would have been back at their intermittent terror soon after. The Georgians had also planned on invading Abkhazia once they had finished with South Ossetia. The best option was disarming Georgia as it would stop the intermittent terror and prevent them attempting another invasion. It would also undermine Saakashvili’s hold on the country for the ZPC. I don’t think the Russian guv waited for public opinion, but went in as soon as they could get the forces organised well enough to do it right, instead of doing it piecemeal.
Can somebody explain to me why I this blog elicits such rage and hatred?! I am just an anonymous blogger sharing his views, and yet some folks truly seem to hate my guts. Sure, we are dealing with controversial and even painful topics here, but why can’t these guys just disagree with me, or ignore me, of make fun of me? They seem to really become overcome with rage. I am baffled, honestly, if somebody could explain to me what is going on here I would be most grateful.
The Saker
he he, I disagree with you about a lot but I’d frame that post and put it on the wall. What’s more fun than being an idiot-enrager?
Infantile minds post truly childish drivel.
Obamabots do this all over the web.
I would ignore the wankers. They live in their mommies basements, lonely and brainless.
Don’t publish them.
Can somebody explain to me why I this blog elicits such rage and hatred?
It’s not just you, if that helps any ;-)
The sheer unvarnished hatred that I’ve seen for Russia on alternative media (and in some mainstream media) has just blown me away. It’s absolute, and unreasoning. If these were older folks who had lived through the cold war and Soviet hegemony, I could understand it somewhat; but many of these people are young (to judge from their pictures and FB/twitter timelines). It’s effective western brainwashing, combined with a primitive need to hate – something that we westerners, convinced of our postmodern superiority, had convinced ourselves we’d gotten past.
Also, there is something really twisted about the deep personal hatred some men have for Putin – there’s a whole contingent on Twitter that constantly post spoof pictures of him, many of which are sexually suggestive. I’ve read that Nazism tends to attract repressed homosexuals; that would go a long way toward explaining this.
Saker, I’d prefer to get the news as you provide it with the qualifiers that you offer. It should be clear to anybody paying attention that including a source is not an endorsement of that source.
Putin’s options are grim if they involve any type of intervention. It opens the door to what you correctly described as decades of wasted efforts. Russia, the US and every other nation needs to realize that the recent “drop dead” dates of 2045 or 2064 for huge climate change impact are very real. What happens when 100,000,000 people can no longer live in Bangladesh in 2050 or when the ecosystem in southern Indonesia starts collapsing in 2020 (making it a cauldron for infectious disease)?
Russia and Putin are very smart to not intervene overtly for two reasons. The Ukraine economy will collapse and the base of public opinion will turn against the coup government. A poll in summer 2013 showed that nearly half of those polled in West and Central Ukraine saw NATO as NEITHER a threat or a protector of Ukraine. Only 39% in the West saw NATO as a protector. The neo Nazi’s are riding high but on thin ice. When the economy hits free fall and there are no services, social and otherwise, there will be plenty of complaints throughout Ukraine about the coup government. That’s when Russia wins (as do all of us). The EU and US can’t bailout Ukraine. Russia can just sit there and wait for the right opportunity while the East forces, battle tested, make their move.
It’s important to keep in mind that the U.S. elite and their political minions behind the Ukraine policy are seriously impaired intellectually. Obama is at 40$ approval. Unemployment (6%) and under employment (15%) total 21% without jobs or with jobs that pay a lot less. Trust in the justice system is at a all time low, e.g., only 30% approval of the Supreme Court. We’re used to our government ignoring our will but not a rolling depression that is always last on the list. While many in the U.S. expect a “Cold War” revival, they don’t support it. The remaining sane elements of the financial elite need to assert some control and change directions. Unfortunately, electoral options are nonexistent.
Putin needs to wait for undeniable economic collapse in Ukraine and a political shift by elements in the U.S. and thus avoid the crippling sanctions and other efforts that would follow an overt intervention.
Saker:
The rage is easily explained since you’re hitting the right chords. Your dialetics are some scary shit to some people which are not used to face contradictions within themselves, rather succumb to the confortable stance on deep problems, at best, or at worst to confront their own preconceptions of the world. (I am excluding here straight out dishonesty, when such outbursts are not quite directed at you but in search for a certain effect on your readers)
Safe to ignore them given they should be transparent to most your readers.
No doubt the issue at hand is complex, and very hard to weigh in one way or another. Personaly I lean against a RF intervention, otoh, I am convinced that if certain conditions are met it becomes not only advisable but the only way forward. The trouble for me is that I find no way to describe those conditions, and until I do I will have to endure the flak for holding on to a politically precarious position.
Conforted only from the fact that any stance I adopt is almost devoid of responsability. Like you I do not envy those who share responsability for their actions on the ground.
As cold as this gets, still I attempt to excuse non-intervention based on the highest likelihood of a financial collapse of Kiev junta and its supporters before its vile plans may come to fruition or the horrors imposed on Donbass population become emotionaly disruptive of any rationality left over.
“Hunger” is a terrible advisor. Can civilization remain calm and not panic to win over such danger?
I think comments like “fuck you, fuck your bullshit analysis and FUCK PUTIN” is a sign that you’re doing something right. Morons tend to get personal when they have no proper argument to present. The same thing with anti-Putin rhetoric – it is never factual and always personal.
A comment of this sort is a product of castrated and impotent minds. Moreover, people are often hatful towards things they don’t understand. Totally, normal idiotic drivel designed for your amusement.
@VINEYARDSAKER
Two questions:
1) I distinctly remember Putin’s *public* statements (in a number of videos in Russian, some even with English subtitles) a couple of months ago, some just before the Crimean annexation and some just after it, in which he stated firmly that he would use Duma’s authorisation to exercise military force to prevent a massacre of civilians in Donbas region at hands of Kiev Banderites. However, he has now *reneged* on that commitment: a wholesale fascist slaughter of Novorussian civilians is taking place right now, and he is not reacting. How do you explain his about-face? Could it be that his word to his own people is of no value?
2) You are mentioning the enormous financial costs that Russia would have to bear should it take over Novorussia (i.e., the eastern part of Malorussia), but I have no sense of proportion here: **what sums are we talking about?** … Wikipedia lists ~$90 billion as the annual military budget of RF for 2012. The horrible stupidity called “Sochi Olympics” cost the people of Russia ~$50 billion… Is the reconstruction of entire Novorussia worth the price of Putin’s “Sochi Olympics” folly?
Anonymous said… 04 July, 2014 23:42
> I am sure Putin personally would love nothing better than to totally shred the bastards in Kiev…
Really? What if he’d like to shred new breed of potent nationalist being born in New Russia? What if they’ll sow the seeds of New Russian Federation without Russian oligarchs and Kremlin bangsters? Putin lives thanks to them and from them.
“Can somebody explain to me why I this blog elicits such rage and hatred?!”
Saker, Here is my story. Over 20 years ago, I came to US as a student from China. In one of my SEL (English as Second Language) class discussion was a teen age Vietnamese refuge who was in US high school for some time. In the discussion, what he spoke about was Chinese aggression in Tibet, and Chinese are baby killers. Think about it, an south Vietnamese refuge calling Chinese baby killers some 25 years ago in a SEL class. I wonder where did he learn that, may be in American high school text book? Did they learn Chinese contribution to be world, did they learn China is pret much no violent nation through out history, I doubt it, or may be it did not matter anyway. Even now All you hear is China is great threat to America. My point is this person may be from east Europe where historically Russia always loom large and where controlled media fans a little fire, or this person maybe from US where people constantly reminded Russia (and China) are great threat, or maybe a certain Ukraine people, whose primacy always shine through. But I would not be bothered by it, There are plenty of friendly people and nations in the world, live goes on. Leave those haters consume in their own hatred.
Oh well, if its open season on our gracious host, I’ll join in.
I’ve been listening to The Saker for some years and pondering about his underlying Raison d’être.
Finally found a description that fits, so now I can reveal his true identity forthwith ;-)
======
WHO ARE GOD’S TEACHERS?
A teacher of God is anyone who chooses to be one. His qualifications consist solely in this; somehow, somewhere he has made a deliberate choice in which he did not see his interests as apart from someone else’s. Once he has done that, his road is established and his direction is sure. A light has entered the darkness. It may be a single light, but that is enough. He has entered an agreement with God even if he does not yet believe in Him. He has become a bringer of salvation. He has become a teacher of God.
They come from all over the world. They come from all religions and from no religion. They are the ones who have answered. The Call is universal. It goes on all the time everywhere. It calls for teachers to speak for It and redeem the world. Many hear It, but few will answer. Yet it is all a matter of time.
Everyone will answer in the end, but the end can be a long, long way off. It is because of this that the plan of the teachers was established. Their function is to save time.
Each one begins as a single light, but with the Call at its center it is a light that cannot be limited. And each one saves a thousand years of time as the world judges it. To the Call Itself time has no meaning.
There is a course for every teacher of God. The form of the course varies greatly. So do the particular teaching aids involved. But the content of the course never changes. Its central theme is always, “God’s Son is guiltless, and in his innocence is his salvation.” It can be taught by actions or thoughts; in words or soundlessly; in any language or in no language; in any place or time or manner.
It does not matter who the teacher was before he heard the Call. He has become a savior by his answering. He has seen someone else as himself. He has therefore found his own salvation and the salvation of the world. In his rebirth is the world reborn.
(….)
Except for God’s teachers there would be little hope of salvation, for the world of sin would seem forever real. The self-deceiving must deceive, for they must teach deception. And what else is hell? This is a manual for the teachers of God. They are not perfect, or they would not be here. Yet it is their mission to become perfect here, and so they teach perfection over and over, in many, many ways, until they have learned it. And then they are seen no more, although their thoughts remain a source of strength and truth forever
=====
From “A Course in Miracles”
More on the net, or at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2yofl9iuafv2ucs/%3DACIM%3D%202ndEdition.zip
(HTML, 1 M)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1ps6nb7ohs3mgp/%3DACIM%3D%20Kelly%20Love%20reading%20First%20Edition-MP3%20Format.zip
(MP3, 830 M)
Saker,
“The sad reality is that while peace takes two, war takes only one”
I had just cut-and-pasted your incredibly astute observation when I beheld the obvious “best” some frustrated hater could do.
Why do you elicit this? *Don’t take it personally!* It has *nothing whatever to do with you* and everything to do with the severe limitations of that individual and all others like him. The short answer is, they’re stupid and ignorant and that really is the best they can do. ( Please do note though that I’m talking about stupid people, not uneducated ones: there’s obviously a real difference between the two!)
Let me try a longer answer. Specifically, it’s because they are so limited in their cognitive skills (ain’t got none; couldn’t think their way out of a paper bag if their life depended on it), frustration tolerance (likewise: ain’t got no self-control either) and frankly, IQ. Oh yes, they’re also 100% brainwashed by the media of their choice AND classically-conditioned (think Pavlov’s dogs only instead of salivating, they’ve been carefully “taught” to become either very angry or very afraid).
So, when faced with something they don’t like and/or understand, what you get is a person who wouldn’t know a fact if they fell over it so can hardly summon any, couldn’t construct a reasoned discussion or argument even if they did know the difference between facts and five-word sound-bites and had a few at their disposal, and has become utterly livid and 100% convinced it is obviously the fault of an elite/Putin/whomever else they’ve been taught to fear and hate.
It’s impossible to hold a conversation or discussion with people like this either online or in real life bc the minute you disagree with them, you’re somehow challenging their entire world-view (which they dare not do — the whole thing would crumble and that is a terrifying prospect). So, they lose it and attack you bc it’s the only thing they know how to do. In real life, you just learn to avoid them or, if that’s not possible, avoid their, erm, sensitivities. You, of course, have the option to delete their excreta but even as a commenter it’s easier too because even though they can play Anonymous Keyboard Commando to their little hearts’ content, you can ignore them, just tell them to bug off or sometimes, if it seems like they do have some intelligence and their ad hominem attacks are just part of their game, it can be just exquisite fun to eviscerate their absurd claims and expose them for what they really are. (If they’re paid to do this, they’ll persist of course, just more angrily, but it can be kind of fun to watch them really lose it.) But the really dumb ones just aren’t worth the effort — they really can’t help being so pathetic and certainly aren’t worth the time it takes to respond.
So mostly they’re just very limited, frustrated, unhappy people with no skills and not a clue about what’s going on. Mr. Nora calls them chickens rooting for Colonel Sanders, but I think that phrase fits most Americans on either side who are still fighting the culture wars, not just the dumb, angry ones.
@21:59 … Agree with #2. Yes, break pads are red hot and screaming in SE but more significant in the bigger picture (new great game) is the smoke coming off the clutch pads in Berlin and Paris.
It always amuses me that people compulsively try to make out that war can be somehow transparent and explicable. To allow that would not be good policy or effective strategy. Death, destruction and deception is the syntax of war. That is why psychopaths are so drawn to it. It makes sense to them as it never can to feeling people.
And critics are natural enemy of the critical thinker. They are noise in a crowed space. Critical thinkers are paying them no mind.
Did I forget to say that I like this blog just this side of worship? Keep movin’ with the groovin and the Universe will sing.
Journalism is a really tough job!
herb
Novorussia is becoming a lot of things. For one, now a legitimate working class revolution, which is pretty rare. Although started from the top, as Strelkov said, the repression and the military action have really legimitized the movement. Does Kiev really think it can defeat the Donbass miners?
For another, a rebirth of Russian nationalism, in the best sense.
For another, a transmission of the best qualities of the USSR.
For another, a simple, Christian, humanistic ethic.
For another, the front line of WWIV.
I hope the people of Novorussia know how important they are to the future and that many people around the world understand, thank you for standing up for yourselves and what is right. I believe many are trying to support you in any way possible, even some from America, like myself.
@T-34 tank
Yes indeed it says something about the quality of Russian weapons. Not only were the German generals in awe of the T-34: “Very worrying”, Colonel-General Heinz Guderian, Commander of Second Panzer Army, “We had nothing comparable”, Major-General F.W. Mellenthin, Chief of Staff of XLVIII Panzer Corps and “The finest tank in the world”, Field-Marshal Ewald von Kleist, First Panzer Army”, but they used on a large scale the captured machines. The famous Panther incorporated many features of the T-34.
@Georgia war,
It seems clear to me that the Russians intervened so decisively in Georgia because the Georgian provocations were to be followed by a extension of the war in the Caucasus and possibly in Tatarstan, which would have bogged down Russia for a long time, fostering a new revolution. That’s the same scheme now, no doubt. But there is less likely to succeed now.
It might well be that Putin and his advisers have already come to the conclusion that an overt intervention is inevitable, but that they are waiting for the public opinion in Russia and even in Novorussia to really back that option.
This is exactly what I believe.
WW3 is already underway. In WW2 the Anglo-Zionists waited till 1944 before invading France. It was a brilliant and cynical decision of the kind Anglo-Zionists specialize in.
For Russia in Novorussia, this is July 1942. An intervention now is the worst move possible for Russia and the best possible for Porochumpko and his backers. Why else would they be trying so hard to pull Russia in? From Porochumpko’s first speech as President you could tell this was his only strategy.
Sooner or later the Americans will become directly embroiled in a direct intervention in the Middle East. Does anyone really believe the US will let Russia, China and possibly Iran control Iraq and Syria without a fight? The stakes are too high and the 2016 US Presidential election looms large.
When the US does intervene — and the contradictions of Anglo-Zionist behaviour become most apparent, Putin will make his move.
Actually Saker, I thought you were sick of Putin and talk of Putin.
It is precisely your lack of certainty (openess) plus knowledge and great moderation that makes this site such a valuable resource. If there is such a thing as journalism, as opposed to oublic relations, then you are one of the very few people I can think of that make the grade. I would go insane if I had to stay so focussed on the very sick people who are making this happen.
As ever, thank you for your efforts and commitment.
Great Analysis Saker.
I will say that why Putin cannot cut a deal with the sane members of the Ukrainian military , and helps them to secure the Western Ukrainian part ?
What do you think ?
My heart goes to those paying the ultimate price to free us from dollar-hegemony. I hope that history will remember your sacrifice and people with integrity and empathy will fill the power vacuum about to open.
I kind of doubt that public opinion inside Russia is the most important factor. Doubtful that it was in the Georgian war, and even with taking the Crimea.
By the way, one problem in all the discussions about legality is that Russia took the Crimea. This was an act of war to most people around the world. Most obviously to any puppets or crazies within the Ukraine. So the idea of wanting peace and federalization and a brotherhood of man while keeping the Crimea sounds pretty wild. Was was likely unavoidable at this point, though, of course, the US goal is basically to create a kamikaze state, so it was coming eventually anyway.
Maybe the public opinion poll that matters is the one for rich people. Not saying that Putin is a prisoner of oligarchs, just saying that this problem is going to go on for many years, and harm Russia and Russians significantly. Many rich folks are probably unwilling to lose a lot of money over the Donbass, and need to come around to the view that Russia is the prize. Of course, the need for mass support is also there, as they will bear the burdens of whatever the Kremlin decides to do.
In the end the question is how much barbarism will people tolerate. This is what RAND is curious about in it’s on -going analysis of full spectrum war. Will populations tolerate extermination camps in Eastern Europe in the 21st century? If yes, would they draw a line at chemical warfare?
@Saker
You asked “wwhy I this blog elicits such rage and hatred?”
I can actually provide answers to that question.
1) Your site is popular in the USA and Western Europe.
2) You publish news and links that expose the vile policies toward Russia of Obama, Cameron, and Hollande.
3) Your news, views, and links are spread and reposted on sites throughout the US and Europe.
4) Therefore, you are trouble to the rulers.
That means you have earned your own personal trolls (PTs). These are official representatives that don’t acknowledge their masters.
They’re usually very unhappy and angry people who enjoy playing the thug role and do it for a cause. They range from crude to clever and they never sincerely apologize for their bad behavior.
Infiltrating and harassing opposing voices is official policy of the Obama administration. Cass Sunstein, Obama operative and confidant,
wrote extensively of plans to carry out just such a program. Before him, various political groups would enlist and unleash trolls when any new voice on the net got a bit too popular with views at odds with the rulers.
So when you see these screw balls, just tell yourself: I must be doing something right to attract these trolls.
It’s easy to tell the difference between honest disagreement and troll behavior. Those of differing views who are sincere rarely resort to personal attacks and foul language. You know a troll when you see one.
@Peter….
First there was the oft repeated half truth that “Putin’s Games” would be the most expensive Olympic Games ever; coming in at an eye-popping $50 billion dollars.
The not-so-subtle insinuation was that an egomaniacal dictator was raiding the public treasury to feed his grandiose ego. Some even likened Putin to corrupt Roman Emperors of antiquity, who would squander enormous sums of public money for the “bread and circuses” of the Gladiatorial contests.
The reality was something different. It was indeed true that Putin wanted the grand events to show to his people, and to the world, that Russia was back to its rightful place of honor as one of the world’s leading nations.
But the Western media’s narrative omitted two important data points regarding its tiresome, and unconfirmed, mantra of “$50 Billion …. $50 Billion….50 Billion” which you and many others bought.
First of all, only about 15% of that sum went towards construction of the actual Olympic venues.
The bulk of the funds were used to upgrade the infrastructure of the spectacular sea & ski town of Sochi.
Long after the Olympics are gone, Putin’s investment in Sochi will yield permanent vacation based commerce and tax revenue for the surrounding region.
Keep up the valuable reports Saker – we need them to cut through the deafening silence in MSM. After two weeks of not a mention of Ukraine, today the media in Oz has a story about Poro and his new Defence Minister and how they vowed to create ‘armed forces that were capable of fighting and winning’. That Poro ‘will purge the army of theives and grafters’. Not one single word about bombs or the devastation … just that ‘violence and lawlessness persisted in eastern Ukraine when nine border guards were injured by separatists’.
IMHO anyone who quotes “Wikipedia’ as a source is a suspect troll.So just ignore these empty vessels and concentrate on those who appreciate your work.
Putin sent a congrats to Obuma for the 4th .. great diplomat!
On 04 July, 2014 23:01 DavidKNZ wrote:
re the RAND memorandum:
Unsurprisingly, RAND have issued a denial
That means it is genuine and they did issue it. Thanks for the confirmation.
B.
This is a genocide against who?
Against Russians. Not merely Donbass Russians. Not just Crimean, Odessan, or wherever in Ukraine Russians. This is the opening front against Russians in Mother Russia and all over East Europe and Eurasia.
This is to exterminate a language, a people, a culture a religion, and a history,,as well as the RF.
Therefore, if I am correct, the war in SE Ukraine, Novorossiya should be where every experienced Russian military person, man and woman go volunteer. Now that would be an enormous number, every, but if the most experienced who are of recent combat experience and communication skills and logistics skills took a month or two to pitch in, bring weapons, bring knowledge, bring hope, the militias could recruit and train and double and triple their forces.
Some of those volunteers could wedge open a wide corridor for trucks and APC’s and tanks they found along the way into the Ukraine. Let’s say 10,000 MANPADS showed up. The bombing would be less frequent. And if some really large artillery could come across one night from God only knows where, they could respond at distance to the Ukie artillery.
Why haven’t thousands of Russian vets volunteered to despose of the psychopaths who would kill any Russian anywhere?
Putin doesn’t have to send in the RF military. He can just leave the “barn door” unlocked one night and balance the forces in Novorossiya.
Maybe it could take a few nights. But whatever it takes, why aren’t Russians who know how joining the resistance and turning it into a true Russian Defense Force to protect the essence of Russia.
You fight for God, country, family and self.
The fight is in your brother’s yard. His family, your blood family, is being massacred.
This would solve some of the dilemma and change the calculus.
Russians must defend Russians. IF VV Putin was 30 years old, not a politician, just a lawyer or teacher from St. Petersburg, don’t you think he’d be there with a Kalashnikov and RPG leading an attack on an artillery site, defending the refugees trying to get to safety, killing nazis and turning the tide of battle?
To be Russian (and I am not one), seems to me, to defend all things Russian. Everything I’ve ever read or seen about the history of Russia is this story. Invaders, terrorists, sworn enemies, hordes striking at Russians were fought by everyone in the village or town, and ultimately, defeated.
My DNA has two settings.1. Live and let live. And 2. the other is if you come at me, I’d kill you first. It’s genetic, not learned. It’s served me well all my life in all places at all times.
I almost joined the American Indian Movement at Wounded Knee years ago when the FBI attacked them. I was incensed that American government would repeat at that sacred place another outrage.
I don’t have combat experience, but I’m a very deadly shooter. I can handle other weapons, also.
And I know if I was Russian, even if I had millions of dollars and family to care for, I’d be across that border doing something meaningful to see to it that Ukies died and Russians lived.
It isn’t about Ukraine. It’s about Russia and Russians surviving.
Dear Saker,
Excellent analysis as usually. Putin must to wait till all of the promises from the West will show their “real face” and the Ukraian will experience in first hand how they were duped. I have a feeling they will get sober from these empty promises very soon.
Regarding to the f….you comment it is very simple. “We can’t buy intelligence or IQ at the pharmacy even we have plenty of money.”
For the anonymous who has posted this message is nothing more harmful then hold the hatred towards someone.
We have choice to hold the hatred which generate more hatred, or we can choose love and compassion which will grow into more love and more compassion.
Saker, you sometimes get these messages because you are one of the “Bringers of the dawn”. Please do not let these miserable people to let you down, keep your educational and intellectual level as it is and those who don’t like it, they can choose another blog it is just a free choice and nothing else they do not need to be forced to read this blog.
Your blog is read around the world and if they don’t like it, than it is their loss, they don’t know what they are missing.
Definitely universe is dancing already, because you have woke up a lots of people.
Thats just whitewashing for Putins inactions. He should have said that Russia will protect the people of Donbass, he shouldnt have encouraged them to rebel, he shouldnt have given them false hope by all those massing of troops on the border only to let them be slaughtered.
Sometimes things really are that simple and Putin seems to be bought and/or threatened by the oligarchs in Russia.
Observer has stopped on the wrong floor. He ought to remember the “strange trinity” which, in Clausewitz’s opinion, determines success in war – the popular will to engage in combat; the tactical genius to build combats into victories; and the strategic genius to transform victories into peace (this works in civil society too: popular outrage = revenge; police = deterrence; courts = rehabilitation). None of them can work in isolation without the others. So all are right, and all are wrong. It all depends on how you fit them together.
Thus Observer’s point is trivial: “When I see a woman, a mother, cut to pieces asking to make a last phone call (Inna Kukurudza) I see my own mother and the rage I feel is beyond description – murderous rage. I don’t see a Russian mother, I see my mother – same for a child, same for an unarmed man“. Everyone thinks that (ie the popular will), which is why it’s so dangerous. The Queen’s Birthday Parade in London confronts it every year. The massed bands march towards the Colour playing the “Blessing of the Swords” from Meyerbeer’s Les Huguenots, a hymn for genocide by the Catholics preparing for the St Bartholomew’s Day Massacre. But, as the bands cross the parade ground, all the snarling ferocity drains from it, and the Colour, representing the disciplined use of lawful force, is then saluted by soldier and Sovereign alike.
As Observer is not Russian, people in his own country must be causing, or abetting, the mayhem. Why isn’t Observer fighting them? Why does Putin have to do it all by default? And if Observer isn’t pulling his weight, how can Putin get anywhere?
Similarly, I think Nora misses the point when she belittles the anonymous fuck, Victoria Nuland’s lexical twin (albeit of male gender most likely). When women talk about love-making, it usually sounds like fine-tuning a Formula One racer; when boys talk about fucking, it sounds like a bicycle pump (Victoria’s use of the term not only called her neocon husband’s sexual prowess into question, but also explained her descent from young beauty into old hag). Anonymous will grow up. He’s just immature. We don’t know how clever he is. But if he really wants to “fuck Putin”, he’s definitely one of Vot’s “bum bandits”. Given the extravagant beauty of East European women, though, I think it’s best to take his inducements to “fuck” as a compliment.
Herb @01-35 July 5th 2014.
Its true – “Death, destruction and deception is the syntax of war.”
To contend that “And critics are natural enemy of the critical thinker. They are noise in a crowded space. Critical thinkers are paying them no mind.” is a deception, although it may be a self-deception.
The start point for critical thinkers is “I don’t know”.
The next point is “How can I find out?”
The next point is “What caution do I need to guard against reflecting my subliminal prejudices?”
One of these subliminal prejudices is “Where does music end and noise begin?”
The lateral answer is that music and noise are sound – forms of energy – and smart strategies and investigative methodologies are based on this.
The linear answer ensures you go round and round the mulberry bush, as the chilren’s song goes.
Critics are of fundamental significance to critical thinkers since screening them out would preclude not only being critical but being a thinker.
Here we sit, discussing whether to start WW4 today or maybe tomorrow. A remarkable day isn’t it!
I had a look at some mainstream media. Nothing on Ukraine for the last few days. Something on sanctioning Russia. If this truly was the day that started WW4, the casus belli, then somebody would take notice. No, nothing there.
I checked if any Western media has mentioned the use of BM-30 Smerch MRLS. On Google the first result that comes up is Wineyardsaker (even when logged out and using another spyware “personality”). Something on Voice of Russia.
It seems that the Western media have totally abandoned Ukraine. Genocide can only happen in silence. I wonder, if Russia were to intervene now, would it even make the front page headlines?
Some may feign ignorance or are ignorant.
Death squads and “filtration” have always been and are part of “counter-insurgency” strategies.
For the ignorant the answer to the question – Who are these people? – is – your representatives and neighbours.