Comment by Dihlon
I always feel like the greatest of minorities in these conversations. As an American, who served as a Navy Corpsman with the Marines, just after Vietnam, I come to this whole perception of Trump and the whole of U.S. government as one who didn’t vote for either choices presented, but voted for one of the other attendees at the table with Flynn and Putin, Jill Stein. For the record, I am anti-Zionist, but more from a spiritual-philosophical perspective than a political one. Basically, I consider everything that springs from the minds of the followers of Abraham, in all it’s derivative branches, to be the basis for all the troubles we are faced with today. Islam is but another manifestation of radical Christianity, once the zealousness fizzled out in the conquest of conquering Europa and the Americas. The same mind parasite infects radical Islam in it’s drive to sow discord, suppress the feminine and pervert the thinking of the natural man to keep him/her confused and at war within themselves. Being of European decent, I can only make my stand with others of my tribe, against those who would seek to eradicate us for some grand social experiment that the goal of which escapes me, except to say it most probably is the usual madness that infects the minds of these “believers.” . I can no more support a government that holds to a Judeo-Christian ethic, like Bannon envisions, or any other ideal that seeks to exploit the planet without ceasing or fails to grasp the basic understanding that what we are using to empower our societies is at the heart of all our conflict. The root and cause of all of our dis-ease is the three great religions that sprang from Abraham and the societies that lay claim to that influence as the hallmark of it’s existence. Until we free ourselves of these haters of nature and the earth, we are doomed to continue in this spiral of self-destruction that is at the heart of these exercises in faith. The misuse of the gifts of the planet is what drives these senseless wars. China, seeking to protect the oil routes it needs to feed it’s emerging economy is at the heart of those troubles. Russia, trying to exploit it’s vast riches and being thwarted for fear of it’s rising position. All for the sake of oil and gas. Mindless. We need a new energy source or we’ll all inhabit a nuclear radiated cinder.We need a new power source that frees men from the need to enslave themselves to maintain a lifestyle that he doesn’t really understand, and if he did, would reject from the clear understanding that he can’t sustain it. To do so, only enslaves him and his progeny, to those who wish to only allow energy sources that can be metered and controlled. Until that day comes, we will continue in these, although engrossing and lively, debates about the deeds of the mighty and connected. Frankly, I sense, at a level that is far more gratifying, that those who stand together in resistance at Standing Rock, are a far better example of where we all need to be than any administration of Trump or any other wanna be leader can ever hope to accomplish. Here’s to standing back and hoping that as they fall under they’re own inescapable debt/derivative mountain, that they leave enough of the earth left for the real humans to inhabit. As an American, I will probably continue to withdraw participation in this madness, more and more. I love the idea of my country, but, I still haven’t seen anything close to that ideal. Except among those who the founding fathers fashioned a large portion of the original intent upon. They just left out the large contribution and authority given to the women of the Iroquois Confederation and the Council of Mothers. America is still a good idea, worth fighting for. I honestly wish Trump well in ridding us of the neo-con infestation. But I do have concern with the heavy consideration given to the tenets of Judaism in his household. I am not encouraged.As for Flynn, I always liked serving under officers of his stripe. Not bound to convention and willing to strive outside the imaginary boundaries erected for behavior. I think they called that “boldness and daring initiative.” Like him, I am also a registered Democrat, but left it shortly after the arrival of the Clintons and the New Democrats. Humph, you can see where they led us. They had a smell when they arrived and it only intensified with the rise of that sulfurous witch Hillary. I know, as my 80 year-old Democratic mother and I, watched the returns and it became clear that Trump had won, that we both felt a sense of relief that Hillary hadn’t completed her coronation. All I know is that I am more than willing to partner with Russia and stop all this neocon insanity that only serves the desires of the Israelies. Of course, being the snakes they are, they’ll just shed their skins and become something else. I am intrigued with the choice of Flynn and will watch with interest what he does.
Excellent comment; I resonate with it, with some qualifications. Frankly, I’m surprised this article is given such prominence, given that this site’s basis is Orthodox Christianity. I am gratified that free speech is allowed to this extent. It bodes well for the vineyard.
I am going to comment on this comment at the Cafe, and address the all-important question of God and religion. The good news is that God is changing, starting with Saint John’s “God is Love” meme. I believe there is a God but by history he is 95% patriarchal. However, he is not bound to some unchanging book or set of dogmas. It looks to me that he is now supporting love and the issues that Dihlon brings up. God and patriarchal men can change and restore this planet to its original plan. As Cardinal John Henry Newman observed in his Development of Christian Doctrine, there has always been development of ideas in Christianity. I envisage a day when God will retire and fully support Love as the central idea of religion. Thanks.
Yes a good comment; though it has holes in its essential position. The wisdom has it that a gun is simply a tool, a construct, embodying the capacity to achieve good or ill according to its owner. Well then, what of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam? Is the wisdom of the gun abandoned here for the convenience of making a point? I think perhaps it is so. I believe in God, it is that simple. God gave us free will to choose our path. Should God rescind this boon then I would submit to Him: After all it is written that lifes’ spark is divine and was a gift from God, and that one day all would return to its root.
The spirit displayed at standing rock: An interesting choice of words. Worth a closer look perhaps.
Organised religion is the problem in my view: A means to control entailing collusion with Kings and Princes as well as enormous riches utilised to no good end. Middlemen, Pah!! Good for keeping the farm animals in line.
Political Zionism? Simple Gangsterism as a form of government.
From what I am seeing Russia is doing very well, but friends are always welcome I am certain. It must be mindboggling projecting force to protect ones interests while hamstrung by having to protect ones borders from the Ukraine and NATO: I believe Zavarchenko knows the score.
As for the US; this is become very hard to predict, so one thing at a time. Firstly, if the President elect is serious about re-engaging constructively with Russia then it will not be immediate as Russia has tied itself to China, and I cannot see the US, even under Donald Trump let China grow unchecked, but time will tell. To do this though will require a new war to keep the military industrial complex happy, with lots of paydays. Who might that be? I view Phillipines as a possibility, but there are others. But really there are larger problems that need to be faced, and the warmongering really should end.
Wars were around long before the phenomenon of Christianity and Islam. Before there was oil to be controlled, it was mostly land that was controlled.
Perhaps the freest were the hunters and gatherers and nomadic herders where everyone had free use the land their group or tribe controlled.
History is mostly war, and that pre-dates Christianity and Islam and only for a short period about two and a half thousand years ago Israel was a nation state.
Religion or no religion people will go to war with each other for one reason or another.
There is no such thing as judeo-Christianity.
The divide between the two has no bridges.
Early Jews hated Christ as much as modern Jews, and Zionists especially, hate modern Christians. A brief trawl through the Talmud will illustrate the above, amply.
There is also no such thing as ‘radical Christianity’. Unless you refer to Zionist Christians who are a cult, bred and led by Zionists for the glory of greater Israel.
The event you refer to, the conquest of the Americas, abused and misused Christianity in order to deprive the natives of life and property. But the Conquistadors and Founding Fathers, North and South, were no more religious than the Trumps, Podestas and Clinton/Bush Dynasties of today.
It is intellectually sloppy at best, and dishonest at worst, to conflate these things: oligarchy, psychopathy, radicalism, conquest and rabid greed and then stick a ‘hot-button’ label like ‘Christianity’ on them. There is nothing about promoting ‘planetary resource exploitation’ in any Christian theology that I am familiar with. And just because Bannon uses the term Judeo-Christianity, does not mean that the thing exists. The Old Testament may give ‘Dominion’ over everything to Judaic males but that may be precisely why Christ came along. To rewrite the book.
The statement “Islam is but another manifestation of radical Christianity” is pretentious, absurd, and does not merit a response. And indeed the diatribe against religion which follows in the paragraph reminds me of the recent debacle with Cat Motya’s meowling screed.
It is going back to primary school to say that laying all the sins of the universe on the doorstep of ‘Abrahamic religions’, (another artificial construct) does not begin to cover the crimes, injustices and excesses of human history – which had those things in spades both before and after those three religions came on the scene – and after they arguably left, as well. I refer of course to the monsters of the Enlightenment: From Robespierre, through Napoleon, Hitler, Pol Pot, Lenin, Trotsky, Zionism and Mao Tse Tung as well as the Bush and Clinton Dynasties of North America.
You want to throw out the baby, the bathwater, the bathtub and the bathroom.
I humbly suggest to you that the problem lies within you and your apparent combination of inadequate knowledge and unresolved anger.
Mostly agree with your comment.
Wars to control resources and lead a better lifestyle existed long before any Religion came in existence and similar wars will still be there even after all known religions are gone.
Most leaders like to wage wars, especially when they are powerful. Their subjects can support and endure short term wars. But rarely they support long term wars. This is because their goal (leading a simple life) do not align with that of their leaders, unless there is No Resource to lead a life exists for common men.
However, such wars can be supported for much longer duration if and only if, there is an Ideology that binds the ruler and common man and the same ideology supports war. Even a very good man can be incited to kill others by using Ideology. And wicked persons can use any damn ideology, twist it and employ for waging wars. The Ideology is more powerful if it states that the whole Earth belongs to the followers and others are just to serve the Followers.
Same has happened with Marxism (enough genocides), Nazi-ism, Crusades, Jihad and so on. The responsibility also lies with common men to see that an Ideology should not be misused for wars on whatever pretext.
Communism was godless, being non religious/spiritual gives the annhilators good excuse to be anti humanity. Thus, under communisn, billions of people around the world have been kiled. Capitalism has become the other side of Comunism with different aproach.
War was there long before any organized religion came into being. So, let us NOT Blame religion/s Only for the problem we see around.
War is fought for resources and control…. and sometimes just for Hatred. It has remained so for a long long period. But these wars are of short duration. Ordinary people know that they are ordinary and they will have very less benefit in post-war scenario. So they do not support wars for a long duration of time.
The duration of wars become longer when an Ideology or Religion supports it. Like Communism has done it’s share of genocide becuase it was driven by an Ideology that even destroyed familial bonds and social bonds. So a brother could kill another brother…. and so on.
When Religion steps into it, then it becomes “Moral” to kill others. The issue gets uglier when the God is a Tribal God … Our god vs Your God scenario. Followers of Monotheist Religions have created such a Narrative where ” …… (a Nation / state) for Christ” or “….. for Islam” or some other religion is Acceptable !!!! Very few followers could resist such move by a powerful group … but the whole religion gets blamed.
Yes, monotheists ( Abrahamic faith) has done their share of wars, just like the pre-historic tribal gods…. the modus operandi is similar. Only difference is in scale.
At the beginning when men gathered in numbers they become bount by cult or assosiation, and these bonding factors have been the driving force of all wars, so to state that religion is not to be blamed is utter ignorance. However wars are part of life on earth, the basic primitive instinct that all living creatures share on this planet. We managed to amplified the wars by assosiation/religion, the irony is that our intelligence works against us. Love to nature have a better chance of stopping war than praying. Thats how i feel and have monstrous desire to live in peace even with all creatuse, thanks to my intellect and faithless views
You may as well blame air for ‘all wars’, since all humans respire.
Religion is the driving force of nothing but religion.
Unless the war is defensive, (and those of the US never are), fear, lies, xenophobia and hate (and press-ganging or forced service) are the driving force of war for the soldier.
Acquisition, paranoia, and enrichment are the driving force of war for the Oligarchy.
Take the current US wars on LIbya, Iraq and Syria, for instance:
In what way are the wars of the twenty first century, especially of the USA which is involved deeply in most of them, religious? Clearly, they are wars fought for the benefit of the rich and of Zionism for resources, strategic position and hegemony. Just like all of the wars of the past.
The fact that US propaganda halfheartedly notices that the people sitting on the oil happen to be NOT Xtians does not make these ‘religious wars’. The Russians are arguably MORE Christian than the USA. That does not stop Christian Europe, NATO and the USA from trying to start WW3 with them.
Given what we are learning about the Talmudo-Satanists like the Clintons, and perhaps most ‘Western’ ruling elites, they could be described as practicing the opposite of religion, which is Satanism. But that is a different story entirely.
Your secular, agnostico-atheist ‘crusade’, though ostensibly against religion, seems to be mostly directed against reality. But violently restating the assertion that ‘religion causes war’ as you have done, does not make it so.
“The Russians are arguably MORE Christian than the USA. That does not stop Christian Europe, NATO and the USA from trying to start WW3 with them.”
Who said anything about one religion always fighting against another religion? We see through the centuries wars between Christians and Christians, and between Muslims and Muslims. Mostly/always in the name of God. Also Jews against Jews, but not openly.
“in the name of God”?
Your post is no doubt, ‘in the name of’ Wisdom, but that is not enough to make it wise.
In the East there is a parable:
the evil One was touring the country side where the assistant noticed a man pick up a piece of truth and he was enlightened. the assistant asks the evil One – “aren’t you upset he discovered the truth?”
“No not at all”, he retorted back, “give him time and he will make a religion of it…”
When i completed the most fascinating class of university as a Straight A student, I had a C+; barely passing the class and thankfully being an elective this class, was world religions…truly the only course I believed was a required liberal arts class for all!
I walked out of that room, 8 months post 9/11 (freshman year of all years) – knowing, the disagreements were bullshit as all seven religions were saying the same damn polar statement embodied in the most genius literary work of art ever created the holy bible…
do not do unto those that which you do not wish to receive…some of us are sadist…and the like :)
welcome to law of allowance…the first one granting this entire experience…give thanks!
p
If there really was an Abrahamic religion, it would trump (pun not intended) everything else. It would not be a religion, as we commonly think of religion as a set of beliefs and practices. It would make one’s nationality, say as an American, a mere trifle.
Think of John Lennon’s song Imagine, then add to that the slightly sardonic bumper sticker, Imagine using turn signals, and one can get an inkling of the direction where the world should be headed (but won’t if people don’t care enough). But even this is not enough. Back in the 1960-1970’s , an east coast intellectual asked J.R.R. Tolkien who the God of the Lord of the Rings trilogy was, to which Tolkien responded, “God.”
Anon, I can’t resist a LOTR reference. Tolkien was a devout Catholic, and ‘God’ is in LOTR but nothing as crude as his with friend C.S. Lewis. There is a pantheon of Major Gods (under the One), and a host of minor gods under them so it is not a monotheistic religion. God is Fate in LOTR, the hidden hand behind events, and sometimes he animates his servants to do his will. Whenever the Eagles arrive (who are the servants of the strongest God Manwe), you see the most material example of God’s Hand.
What I truly value about LOTR is it is not a vehicle for Tolkien’s religious views, but his political. He survived as a second lieutenant in the first world war; you know, the guys who blow the whistle and who are first to go over the top. He saw Humanity in all our glory, face down bleeding out into the mud; bloated and feasted upon by rats. So many of his contemporaries died, how many LOTR weren’t written; the best of the British Empire at the height of their civilisation churned into mincemeat. We have never recovered.
Tolkien was a Professor of language and one of the original authors of the Oxford Dictionary. His love was Nordic language (particularly Finnish), and he was an expert in their lore and mythology. He pined over the defeat at Hastings, and the pollution of the Anglo-Saxon culture with Classical/Romantic myths brought over by William the Conqueror. He wanted to write a mythology that continued the wisdom of the Nordic people as if the Norman Conquest never happened.
I won’t write my LOTR essay here, but spoilers ahead. The Ring is a metaphor for absolute power (as in power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.) If you think about the story again with this key, see what conclusions you come to. I think Professor Tolkien left us a message, one he learnt deep in study, and deep in human waste. He could see where our civilisation will end, and he left us a roadmap to guide us. Read it again.
I thought it was impolite to talk about religion, death and politics at the table; a little late for that :)
I think Dihlon has reduced his argument to just the Abrahamic religions to make it relevant to the majority reading his piece. The brutality of the Sri Lankan government against the Tamil is proof that there is no link between what religion says, and what politics does. For if people who follow the beautiful tenants of the Buddha can shell innocent women and children, there is no link and nothing special about the followers of Abraham.
Religion predates civilisation, examples abound of fertility idols, temples and burial rites way before we planted the first seed. Even before we could afford anyone to specialise (other than the Alpha), we allowed for a shaman, witch doctor or seer. Since the dawn of time, we have been ruled by two different centres of power; “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s”. Both complemented the other; without the Priest, the King would get regularly lynched for all the random events that befall us, and without the King, the Priest would not have the space be able to stay above the muck of life. The Priesthood offers continuity to a society when the Kingship can change often due to the brutality of politics. Up until the West offered a scientific/rational/secular view of the world, these two Janus twins always operated together.
“Basically, I consider everything that springs from the minds of the followers of Abraham, in all it’s derivative branches, to be the basis for all the troubles we are faced with today” Dihlon.
Dusting off my copy of the Manifesto, I offer this; “it is the economy, stupid”. Grandfather Marx said that our political-economic system can be traced back to the advent of civilisation. Before that, we lived in a state of primitive communism where everything was shared and you only owned what you could carry. Once we started to civilise (fence in the commons), we began to produce a surplus, which allowed some of us to leave the fields and specialise. Not long after we developed currency, so suddenly we could own more than other people. This creation of a surplus, which could be monetised, is the root of all evil. This created a class of specialists who didn’t have to ‘work’, who gained the benefit of this surplus to the detriment of the rest. Of course the Priest got his beak wet as one of these specialists. “Offerings” are nothing more than another kind of tax.
“Freeman and slave, patrician and plebeian, lord and serf, guild-master and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.” CM 1848
The fight over this treasure is what has wracked History since it’s inception, Religion is just another tool of the ruling class to keep us down (the Opiate of the Masses). Whether Pope or Imam, Dictator or President, Rothschild or Morgan, Bush or Clinton; all are just crime syndicates vying to take our share of the Prize. Marx says one day the conditions will arise, the inherent contradictions in capitalism will come to their eventual conclusion, and we will move into a new phase in our development. He says that we will return to our previous state of primitive communism, but this time by choice rather than by necessity. This doesn’t mean we are going to be wearing skins again anytime soon. But a vision of a world without money, where we live in communities which are self-supporting. The Priest’s only role is in our internal world, and he should not have any role in the public space. This is the heart of Secularism; it does not deny God, but places her in the Private sphere where She belongs.
The commentor should read “The True Believer” by Eric Hoffer. It goes way beyond and far deeper than Abrahamic religions. In fact the dynamic he describes goes beyond religion and to “causes” in general.
The only organized version of this sort of thing I can think of that does not exhibit this sort of stuff is maybe Buddhism and I would say this is because it make a directed effect not have a “cause”. Still you will find all sorts of crazy ass people doing stupid stuff who might call themselves Buddhists its just might not be institutionalized.
Avoid people who have a “cause” no matter how good it may seem, people who are truly seeking wisdom never operate in the manner of people with a “cause”. Finding a person who is truly seeking wisdom can be rather hard in the west, at least in the US, where people are no longer even able to tell you what the difference is between an idiot and a fool or why it would even matter.
The word “religion” can mean so many different things to different people, that for the purpose of communication, it is useless.
“The root and cause of all of our dis-ease is the three great religions that sprang from Abraham and the societies that lay claim to that influence as the hallmark of it’s existence.”
I, like others above, think it’s quite a bit more complicated than that. You may find the work of Michael Bradley interesting.
http://www.michaelbradley.info/siteindex.html
Despite the chaotic layout and winding narrative (apparently last maintained in 2004), it rewards the diligent.
Michael Bradley was originally nominated for the Nobel Prize for his Anthropology PhD work in the genetic sources for Western aggression. His first book, The Iceman Inheritance was warmly received both academically and popularly. Then, when its implications became clear, both he and all of his work suddenly became untouchable.
http://www.michaelbradley.info/books/iceman/iceman_promo.html
From the Iceman Inheritance’s 1978 book jacket description:
Michael Bradley delves back into our glacial past during the last Ice Age in order to find the prehistoric sources of the white race’s aggression, racism and sexism. Relying on the researches of Alexander Marshack, Carleton Coon, Konrad Lorenz, S.L. Washburn, Ralph Solecki and others, Bradley offers a persuasive argument that the white race, the Neanderthal-Caucasoids, are more aggressive than other groups because of ancient sexual maladaptation. And, in tracing the effects of Caucasian aggression, Bradley offers an uncomfortable and all-too-plausible explanation for the pattern of human history.
I have not gone thru Iceman Inheritance yet, but I understand that it the essence is – “white race, the Neanderthal-Caucasoids, are more aggressive than other groups because of ancient sexual maladaptation”.
Is the above theory adequate to describe the Islamic Jihad / violence / cruelty that was experienced by societies who were non-Islamic ? I don’t think so. To me, the basic reason for mindless violence starts from the concept that “This world is for us only. We can do whatever with it”.
The sense of “Us” is defined in many ways – race / skin color / religion / language/ Ideologies including religion. The advantage of Religion in this case of Looting others is – Religion provides a sense of Moral & Ethics and can justify the most immoral / unethical things. Other factors like race / skin color/ language etc. Cannot provide that Fig Leaf.
When I saw the picture that goes with this article, I thought it would be about how spraying pesticides soaks into the soil and ruins the water table as well as the soil itself. I was expecting to read about the evils of Monsanto and the need to ban pesticides world-wide. The tree is poison because it has been sprayed.
Instead, we see three separate religions being buried in the same coffin, the allegation being that they are sisters under the skin. However, Christianity believes in the Holy Trinity, which is completely at odds with Judaism and Islam. Theologically speaking, it would probably be safe to say that Trinitarian Christianity is as opposed Judaism and Islam as it is to atheism. (This type of dismissive conflating of mutually opposed and contradictory elements is typical of what passes for enlightened thinking by the educated classes of today, at least in America.) Both Judaism and Islam are essentially Talmudic responses to Christianity, if one accepts the argument that what we call Judaism today is essentially a different religion from that of the Israelites–which was looking forward to the coming of Christ–before the time of Christ. Indeed, E Michael Jones makes a persuasive argument that the word “Jew” originates in the Gospel of John, where John uses such phrases as “for fear of the Jews”. The rejection of Christ is the ontological basis for Talmudic religion. Islam does seem to honour Christ, but nevertheless rejects His claim to be the Son of God. To a Christian, however, to reject the divinity of Christ is to reject Christ himself.
I am stupid and poor but try to keep crawling to God and understanding although I know I will fail. Along my way, I enlisted in the military to fight evil and I am sorry I was so easy diverted. I appreciate reading all this wisdom and my smile is not condescension as I keep crawling. I am so content being unsure but hopeful.
During the troubles which followed WW I in Germany, there was no shortage of people with ideas about how the new order should be structured, and upon what values. It showed itself, indeed, to be “the land of poets and thinkers.”
Yet when push came to shove, they found themselves with only one genuine choice (many things may be possible but they are not therefore available. Big difference there) : the dialectical materialism of Bolshevism, or their own historic Christian Civilization.
They carried their cultural identity forward for another ten years rather than allowing the Bolsheviks to destroy it (and them in the process).
Of course, the forces which had underwritten Bolshevism won, and imagined that they had destroyed German culture and values, as they (imagined that) they had in Russia.
But we are seeing before our eyes the revolt of the subject people everywhere becoming a tidal wave — Britain, USA, now Italy, and France next . . .
Learn from Voltaire that the way you understand who rules you is by seeing who you are not allowed to criticize. And from Gilad Atzmon that the ultimate proof of Jewish control was that no one could even articulate it.
But even while the Trump campaign was first gearing up, a straw in the wind was showing people with eyes what was coming : that the “J word” was appearing in big venues like What Really Happened and Rense. And routinely. It no longer provoked panic (other than in the people Yockey called “the culture distorters”).
Indeed, even the number of arenas in which this control is still contested shrinks daily — acknowledging the facts behind the BDS campaign and drawing necessary conclusions from them is still persecuted as crimethink, but even Google, just recently, now gives the top of page one s.v. the “Holocaust” issue to a denial site (or did the last time I checked).
See beyond the “Judeo-Christian Tradition/Values” fraud (Messiah who will return to establish the Kingdom of God on earth vs. the son of a whore who is spending eternity in boiling excrement because he defied the rabbinical establishment — some commonality !)
There is, in the end, one fundamental choice only : Gospels or Talmud. Everything else is secondary and derivative.
Forgive me please for overlooking Russia in the list —
it has pride of place!