I just got back home for 30 min and I found out that Putin is requested that the referendum scheduled for the 11th be postponed. There seem to be some hints that Merkel and Putin have hammered out some common position including a round-table with all the parties present. Finally, the Russians are claiming that they have withdrawn the forces along the Ukrainian border.
Frankly, I am totally confused by that move but my first impression is that I don’t like it one bit.
But I am a slow thinker and I need to chew on this before coming to a conclusion.
Thanks a lot for all the replies to yesterday’s quiz. I will return to that topic tomorrow morning or possibly later tonight.
Stay tuned.
The Saker
Daniel Rich,
I was kind of trying to avoid the obvious smirks about fingers and all… ;~) And I totally agree with you about finding the truth, however painful — I’m American, there’s LOTS of ugly here still waiting to be uncovered, and the process is not easy to go through. Mr. Nora and I have been at it our entire lives and keep thinking we can’t be shocked at this point, then learn even more about something and get shocked all over again.
I honestly don’t know what’s what vis-a-vis Ukraine. Sooo much food for thought in the comments on the last thread, and so much to be somehow filed-and-sorted today. But I’m still thinking we’ve entered a new stage here and I don’t like it one bit. I don’t like the way America has been running things, but I like Zionist policies and practices even less. And I’m beginning to wonder if our putative leaders have any control over our country at all.
Q. Have we had a coup too, an invisible one?
R. How the hell can we ever find out?
Putin said, “We have been told that our troops by the Ukrainian border are a concern – we have withdrawn them. They are now not near the border, but at locations where they conduct regular drills at ranges.” I took that to mean that they were withdrawn back in February, after that big special drill — not anything that was done recently.
Also when Putin said that Russia is not a party Ukrainian dispute, he’s not being completely honest. He knows that Ukraine is a proxy for the larger geopolitical struggle between the US and Russia. These two main parties are still far apart in their negotiating positions, and that is why a settlement hasn’t been reached.
Russia is not a party in the Ukrainian dispute : that’s between the junta and the cities of the south east. You seem to miss the issue and focus on a MSM meme!
I too don’t believe this was the wrong thing to do. Putin is carving out for himself a statesman’s position in a world that has forgotten what statesmen do. They look after their people and are careful of their neighbors.
What did the US and allies desperately want Putin to do?
Fight.
What did the world’s peoples desperately want Putin to do?
Not fight.
The first desperation has something to do with economics and what the US Empire needs to be doing to survive. I’m no expert but there wouldn’t be desperation otherwise.
The second desperation has to do with families and livelihoods and stability and continuity – all very important conditions easily shattered.
To step back from the brink of war is a good thing. As our own leaders continually have told us, all options are still on the table, but Putin adds that the way out of this mess is to talk. He takes the initiative, and the risk. When the stakes are this high that is statesmanship. And the way to win friends and influence people.
I think we need to respect his decision. Wasn’t that what the people in Slaviansk said? (Sorry if I misnamed that region.)
Request to all readers, writers, thinkers, communicators:
From now on, let’s demand that ‘pro-Russians’ be referred to with the term that corresponds to reality:
‘anti-fascists’
In the aftermath of Odessa, and today’s events, noone can dispute this term. Let’s insist in every blog, journal, video, newsletter, email, phone call . . .
Thanks.
Who owns this dance hall anyway?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-07/guest-post-false-eastwest-paradigm-hides-rise-global-currency
There is a perspective which sees an orchestrated crisis as necessary cover for the transition away from the USD as the dominant global measure of account, means of transaction and store of value.
The USD is at the end of its timeline and the Euro, Ruble, Yuan and Gold are set to replace it as an acceptable money. This will be chaotic and traumatic, particularly for Americans and everyone needs deniable cover for the inevitable reset. .
Perhaps, Vladimir Putin is merely an actor on this stage. The interesting question is who owns and directs the biggest show on earth, which we desperately need to believe is real life. We are players in a virtual world of bits and bites supporting a caste system of infinite duplicity,compartmentalization, recursion and complexity.
Mr Putin is slowly hanging the West,
have you seen this? белая книга from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation.
Every European Capital has a copy and it has been tabled at the council of Europe.
I’m sure the long term goal is to end American manipulation in the affairs of other sovereign nations, their encitment of civil wars and so forth.
I’m also sure that the USA is on the verge of financial collapse.
Some words on Putin a few months back:
“Russia’s incredibly quick response to John Kerry’s suggestion yesterday that Syria could avert a US strike if it handed its chemical weapons was a masterful tactical move by the Kremlin master. Putin instructed his Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to make a statement that Russia will ensure that Syria will surrender and agree to the destruction of its chemical weapon, extending a process a lifeline to president Obama who was struggling to convince US representatives of the necessity of attacking Syria.
Many commentators have pointed that Putin’s quick thinking has offered a convenient solution for all involved, but few have recognised the role that chess played in this incident. Keen enthusiast of the game will recognise that Putin’s proposal was a variation on the classic ‘Jabowntski sacrifice’, in which a functionally-degraded chess piece is sacrificed to create space for manoeuvre elsewhere. But that is only half the story.
Few people will know of the role chess played in Soviet strategic thinking and the various programmes that the USSR established to train its military and intelligence elites in the art of Zevsebia, or chess-think. Chess-think was for the USSR what game theory was for the US during the Cold War, but the Soviets went further than the Americans in making chess-think second nature to their cadres.
con’t at link:
http://www.karlremarks.com/2013/09/the-incredible-story-of-how-putin-used.html
Unknown said:
An endorsement of the May 25 election is more puzzling to me
There is no ‘endorsement’ of the May 25th election.
What Putin said:
We must do everything possible to ensure that people in southeast Ukraine understand, feel and believe that after the Ukrainian presidential election on May 24 or 25 their lawful rights will be reliably guaranteed.
His position is that unless east Ukrainians are satisfied with the rules of the May 25th election, it is illegitimate. It is impossible for the east Ukrainians to have their rights reliably guaranteed if they cannot vote and do not have a cadidate.
I am not a military strategist or an analyst of a sort. However, I’ve a trust in Putin. One thing we can be sure of is that whatever he does (or does not) is in the best interests of Russia and Russian citizens. He is a solid leader and has proved himself a best politician the world currently has. So don’t despair and stay tuned.
James who comments here from time to time re-posted a great article about Putin by Sharon Tennison on his blog. Enjoy!
http://winterpatriot.com/node/853
There is also a very important interview with Dr. Jim Willie on Greg Hunter’s USAWatchdog:
http://usawatchdog.com/dr-jim-willie-russia-may-want-gold-not-stinking-dollars/
Listen very carefully. Among many things Jim mentioned that China can announce a fully convertible Yuan in two months. This is huge. If true it can explain a lot of deadlines and (or) red lines (in the sand).
Я
I only know what I’ve seen with my own eyes and what I’ve learned recently (mostly from Saker) about the character of Putin and Russia.
Whatever Russia is doing is something to watch and learn from. Maybe we can guess all the parts (and I think from the comments we have most of the pieces), but whatever we suspect, Russia has all the intelligence and is in charge of all its moves.
What I think: every day that passes the US gets weaker and RF gets stronger. Why then hurry? This is a fight to the death between only US and RF – China is not really in the fight, nor is EU actually. Not in this hand-to-hand death-struggle between the two nations. Everything that Russia does expends the energy of its opponent and conserves its own energy. In this fight there need only be one killing blow, and it need only be struck once, when the opening presents itself and all the energies are in full alignment.
Russia is acting now as anyone in a fight acts, to make the conditions of the fight better until the way to safety is clear. And vanquishing the enemy in this fight is automatically good for all good people in the area.
And Ukraine? Ukraine has not fully shown itself yet. Where is the damn army? What do the people want? Crimea had no doubt, and Russia I believe (with Saker’s encouragement) would have gone to WWIII to support the return home of the Crimeans.
The Ukies have to show their will a lot more convincingly – this is “tough love” as they call it in the US: you will give your child what she wants but she must get good results in school, etc.
Meanwhile Putin cares for all Russians stranded everywhere in this world and will act to the greatest extent of his power to protect each one – but never at the expense of the greater good of even more Russians and Mother Russia herself.
What is so hard to understand about a principled nation acting on its declared principles, and possessing tremendous skill in the ways of the often unprincipled world?
AnonMongoose
Anonymous @ 00:44 said…
”I think #3 has now taken place, with the other bargaining chip being delay of the referendum.”
In a few hrs we will know if the referendum will be postponed.
ITAR/TASS reports: East Ukraine referendum postponement to be put to vote May 8
Denis Pushilin, co-chairman of the government of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic in eastern Ukraine, told Itar-Tass on Wednesday that he does not rule out the postponement of a referendum on independence scheduled for May 11.
“Tomorrow [May 8] we will put the issue [on plebiscite put-off] to the vote at the people’s council,” Pushilin said.
More..at
http://en.itar
-tass.com/world/730823
His Majesty said “I’d be interested to hear more from Germans and west Euros about the prospect of Germany “distancing” itself”.
Check: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/jacob-heilbrunn/why-germany-admires-putin-10385
Oligarchs promise USD 86,000 for every person who dies fighting the anti-fascists.
http://rt.com/news/157456-ukraine-soldiers-compensation-odessa/
@ Anonymous,
Q: ‘anti-fascists’
R: Man, I’ve done my yoga-stretching, muscle-flexing and bending over backwards until I snapped, so I’m totally ready to join this Russia-bashing free fest for all. Don’t spoil it now with being all PC and such.
@ Nora,
Try to find the ‘men’ behind the mirror. For example, cui bono and how does the money flow [from where to where] are identifiable beacons of who’s who and what’s what.
I once saw the truth, in a blind man’s eyes who lived along the Gambia river. Oddly though, I haven’t seen it in its full glory ever since.
Let’s be clear:
There is no ‘endorsement’ of the May 25th election.
What Putin said:
We must do everything possible to ensure that people in southeast Ukraine understand, feel and believe that after the Ukrainian presidential election on May 24 or 25 their lawful rights will be reliably guaranteed.
His position is that unless east Ukrainians are satisfied with the rules of the May 25th election, it is illegitimate. It is impossible for the east Ukrainians to have their rights reliably guaranteed if they cannot vote and do not have a cadidate.
With this move Putin has put himself in the strongest possible position ahead of direct talks with the EU. He has given up absolutely nothing!
The Ziocons have been partially marginalized. They have been unable to portray Putin as the aggressor. Their only counter move is further escalation — something they can ill afford after the massacre in Odessa. They already wear the blame for the escalating violence throughout the country.
The Ziocons will be desperate to scuttle talks between the EU and Russia. If Merkel can be pried away from the Anglo-Zionists even slightly, Putin has won a smashing victory.
Ignored is that there is no call for Ukrainian ‘troops’ to be called back from the towns they are assaulting , the media have made no such call, this is the elephant in the room ; the hole in the cold head .
http://uleus.ru/na-ukraine-mozhet-poyavitsya-novaya-nike/
saker, with all due respect, you are lost it…if you are thinking how west will say, ok, let’s forget everything about ukraine, we are going to do business as usual,no hard feelings, we are withdrawing the sanctions, you are naive.
as far as i can tell, many here are viewing this situation as some kind of economic struggle inside ukraine, and how unbearable living conditions will play some important parts in the ukraine events. it is far fetched. when yugoslavia breaking up, people in serbia were saying: let them go, they will beg to go back, they are using serbian resources and raw material, they will be busted in few years…and things are far from it. i think western countries will break any piggy banks they have for helping ukraine, and they have some left…
the second thing i have find extremely naive is the hope for western compassion and goodwill, hence russia is producing some white books about crimes in ukraine…you can’t win this pr war because when you are labeled as enemy ( like they did with russia), no one cares about your side of the story…do you know how many white books has serbia produced? dozens of them through the years…and nobody cares…did you guys think that somebody is going to explore serious facts about human organs snatching by kosovo albanians agaist serbs? nope, never…
and let imagine a situation where some elections took place, nazi guard is withdrawing for the second, what will be the next steps…low level of intimidation and killings, with no cameras and no press, like today in odessa. after the election, right sector will becoming acting police, and we can expect more “private visits” by its members and killing people on its doorsteps…it will be late for any action against it…
in the meantime, kiev will get fast tracks to the eu and nato…since they have an elected government, and legitimate too, there is not much russia can do against it, or people in the south-east of ukraine…