by Ghassan Kadi for The Saker Blog
In this insane historical era in which we currently live, events, their causes and consequences do not necessarily follow this particular logical sequence of reporting and analyzing; and we have to get used to much worse.
To this effect, a week ago, it was almost impossible to work out who “killed” Khashoggi and why even though the financial and political and consequences were fairly obvious. However, the events of the few days that followed are beginning to shed some light for speculation about the how and why Mr. Khashoggi was killed and who did it.
In asking “how”, the question is not in relation to the gory details of how the man was physically murdered, but in the events that have possibly led to this fateful event. Some conspiracy theorists abound about there being no death or murder. Were he alive, given that the Saudi’s are under such extreme attack worldwide, they would find any opportunity to drag this man before the world’s cameras to prove their innocence.
To analyze the events leading up to the entry of Mr. Khashoggi to the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul on the 2nd of October 2018, we need to look at a myriad of facts and also possibilities; including cultural ones.
It is very hard to understand the Saudi mind for someone who has never lived in that country. One of the many peculiar aspects of this state is that people, even ordinary people, do not engage in the day-to-day official requirements that members of other nations would.
When I worked and lived in Saudi Arabia, one of the first things I learnt was that the company I worked for had a fulltime employee with the job description of “Mu’aqeb”. The best translation of this title is “expeditor”. This man was in charge of every matter that had to do with dealing with government. He is the one who takes one’s passport and sees that a Saudi “Iquama” (temporary certificate of residence) is produced. He is the one who renews driving licenses. He is the one that does the necessary paperwork to grant employees exit and re-entry visas when they go away on holidays. He even applies on one’s behalf for visas to visit other countries. He even paid water and electricity bills. He did it all, and of course, on top of his salary, he expected a present from employees on their return to work from holidays, and some employees would risk big penalties smuggling in Playboy magazines to reward him with. But the company I worked for was not alone in this regard; all other companies had their own “Mu’aqeb”.
It is against the Saudi psyche, culture and “pride” to go to a government office, wait in line and make an application for anything. Not even uneducated poor Saudis are accustomed to go through the rigmarole of government red-tape and routine.
Mr. Khashoggi was from the upper crust, and it is highly doubtful that he would have been willing and prepared to physically enter the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul seeking an official document.
Furthermore and more importantly, Mr. Khashoggi had a better reason not to enter any Saudi territory. Even though some recent reports portray him as a Wahhabi in disguise among other things, the man had nonetheless made some serious anti-MBS (Mohamed bin Salman) statements https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jamal-khashoggi-saudi-journalist-called-saudi-arabia-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salmans-behavior-in-foreign-policy-impulsive-2017/
Jamal Khashoggi was no fool. He knew the modus operandi of the Saudi Government too well. He knew that what he had said was tantamount to a death sentence in the brutal Kingdom of Sand. So what incited him to walk into the Consulate? To receive a divorce certificate so he could remarry as the reports are trying to make us believe? Not a chance.
But this is not all. As a Muslim, Mr. Khashoggi could have gone to any country that upholds Muslim marriage rites and remarried without having to formally divorce his first wife, and then go to America and live with his “new wife” under the guise of a de-facto relationship. So why would he risk his life and walk into a potential death trap?
Logic stipulates that Khashoggi entered the Consulate after he was given vehement assurances that his safety was guaranteed by the Saudi Crown. He would have never entered the Consulate had he not been given this assurance.
But why would the Saudi Government give him this assurance even though he had been very critical of MBS? A good question.
Once again, a logical hypothetical answer to this question could be that Khashoggi had some important meeting with a high ranking Saudi official to discuss some issues of serious importance, and this normally means that he had some classified information to pass on to the Saudi Government; important enough that the Saudi Crown was prepared to set aside Khashoggi’s recent history in exchange of this information.
If we try to connect more dots in a speculative but rational manner, the story can easily become more interesting.
Hatice Cengiz (Turkish for Khadijeh Jengiz) it is claimed, raised the first alarm for Khashoggi’s disappearance, announcing at the same time that she is/was his fiancée. But that latter announcement of hers came as a surprise even to Khashoggi’s own family.
Not much is said and speculated about Hatice in the West, but she is definitely making some headlines in the Arab World, especially on media controlled and sponsored by Saudi Arabia. To this effect, and because the Saudi neck is on the chopping board, it is possible that for the first time ever perhaps, the Saudis are telling the truth.
But the Saudis are the boys who cried wolf, and no one will ever believe them. But, let us explore how they might have got themselves into this bind.
As we connect the dots, we speculate as follows:
Some reports allege that Hatice has had a colourful history, including Mossad training https://youtu.be/6SPuKo7WMSA. The same YouTube alleges that she was a Gülenist and was arrested by Erdogan and released under the condition that she works for his security apparatus in order to guarantee her freedom. If such is the case, do we know if she has been also blackmailed in exchange for security of family members, loved ones, property etc? We don’t know.
It has also been reported that Jamal Khashoggi met her only as early as May 2018 and later introduced her as an expert on Omani history and politics. In reality, irrespective of what his family members are saying now, Khashoggi has never introduced her to the world as his fiancée; and this is fact.
So was she his fiancée?
It is at least possible that she wasn’t?
So, who was she to Khashoggi and what role did she possibly play?
The following speculation cannot be proved, but it makes sense:
To explain what a Gülenist is for the benefit of the reader who is unaware of this term, Erdogan blamed former friend and ally Fethullah Gülen for the failed coup attempt of July 2016 and persecuted his followers, putting tens of thousands of them in jail. Erdogan’s relationship with America was already deteriorating at that time because of America’s support to Syrian Kurds, and to add to Erdogan’s woes, America was and continues to give Gülen a safe haven despite many requests by Erdogan to have him extradited to Turkey to face trial. But Gülen is falling out of America’s favour as he seems to have outlived his use-by date, and the Gülenist movement would be in dire need of a new benefactor.
Cengiz, a former Gülenist, released on the above-mentioned conditions and possible threats, might have introduced herself to Khashoggi as an undercover Gülenist, and she had a history to support her claim. Being a former Gülenist, she might have indeed kept a foot in the Gülenist camp, and with the diminishing support of the American Government to the Gulenist movement, she might have been recruited to source finance. The Gülenists might have eyed Saudi Arabia to take this role, and as the rift between the Saudi royals and Erdogan intensified after their former joint effort to topple the legitimate secular government of Syria, the Gülenists would have found in Al-Saud what represents an enemy of an enemy, and they had to find a way to seek Saudi support against Erdogan. MBS himself would have inadvertently invited the Gülenists to approach him when he announced, back in March 2018 during a visit to the Coptic Pope Tawadros II in Egypt, that the triangle of evil in the Middle East is comprised of Iran, Islamist extremists groups and Turkey, and, in naming Turkey, he obviously meant Erdogan personally. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/08/saudi-crown-prince-sees-a-new-axis-of-evil-in-the-middle-east/
Khashoggi, with his expansive connections, looked like a good candidate to introduce the would-be new partners and broker a deal between them.
Back to what may have incited Khashoggi to enter the Saudi Consulate and to why the Saudi Government would have, in that case, given him a safe entry despite his history. Possibly, Khashoggi believed that he had a “big story” to relay to the Saudi Government; one that most likely exposed big time anti-Saudi dirt about Erdogan.
With the Saudi-led Wahhabi version of fundamentalist Islam competing with the Muslim Brotherhood side, politically and militarily headed by Erdogan, it is not far-fetched to believe that either party is conspiring to topple the other. If Khashoggi had a story to this effect, even if it was fake but credible enough for him to believe, it would have given him the impetus to seek an audience at the Saudi Consulate and hence an expectation for the Consulate to positively reciprocate. In reality, given the history and culture involved, it is hard to fathom that any scenario short of this one would have given either Khashoggi and/or the Saudi officials enough reasons to meet in the manner and place they did.
It is highly likely that Saudi officials had several contingency plans for Khashoggi’s visit; depending on its outcome and the information that he had to offer. Those plans might have included giving him a wide range of treatments, ranging from a red carpet reception in Saudi Arabia, to beheading and dismembering him within the Consulate’s grounds. What happened after Khashoggi entered the precinct of the Consulate is fairly muddy and hard to speculate on. If the above speculations thus far have been accurate, then these are the possible scenarios that followed the fateful CCTV coverage of Khashoggi’s entry to the Consulate:
1. It is possible that the Saudi officials in Turkey have had their own contacts with the Gülenists prior to the supposed ground-breaking visit of Khashoggi. In such a case, if the story Khashoggi may have offered did not fall in line with the story the Saudi’s already know, then Khashoggi would have automatically been branded as suspicious and his safe entry would have been revoked. In such a case, he would have walked into his own trap.
2. On the other hand, if Khashoggi indeed gave Saudi authorities vital information, so vital that it clearly is vehemently pro-Gülen, and as Gülen is no longer an American favourite, then upon his return to America he may have become a Saudi liability that can potentially muddy the Saudi-American waters that the Saudis desperately try to keep clear. In such an instance, it would be opportune for the Saudis to finish him off before he could return to America.
3. A third possibility is that some Saudi officials already working covertly with Gülen saw in Khashoggi an already persona non grata, a dangerous Erdogan implant and decided to take action against him.
If any of the above scenarios are accurate, then the role of Erdogan in this story is not that of a scavenger who capitalized on the rift generated between the Saudis and America, but that he was instrumental in conjuring up and orchestrating the whole drama. Erdogan might have subjected the Saudi Government to the Gülen litmus test, and in such a case, the victim is Saudi Arabia and the scavenger is America seeking silence money in lieu of continued protection of Saudi interests.
In all of the above scenarios, Khashoggi would have been driven into the trap by his alleged fiancée and had his impunity revoked by the Saudi officials because he failed the test.
But what triggered him off personally to walk into this possible trap? What was in it for him? Definitely not divorce documents. Most likely, Khashoggi was after amnesty from the Saudi Crown, and this would be a safety concern not only for Khashoggi himself, but also for his family that continued to live in Saudi Arabia. He may well have thought that by providing vital and sensitive information to his government, his previous “sins” would be set aside and he would be treated as a hero, his family would feel safe, despite that fact that he has criticized the Crown Prince in the past.
Arabic media are inundated with posts and YouTube videos that are very damning of Hatice Cengiz. Most of them perhaps are Saudi propaganda and should not be taken for a grain of salt. In reality however, her sudden emergence as Khashoggi’s “fiancée”, the fact that she allegedly waited for nearly 24 hours before reporting his disappearance and her personal, professional and political history are all factors that cast much doubt about her innocence and instead, portray her as a possible key element in the series of events that led to the disappearance of Khashoggi.
Furthermore, why would a person in her position make rules and conditions about meeting the President of the United States of America, even if this President is Donald Trump? How many people in history have refused the invitation of American Presidents? Who does she think she is or who is she trying to portray herself as?
And if Trump is seizing the opportunity to grab MBS, and this time he will be grabbing by the wallet, if Erdogan smells a hint of preparedness of MBS to support Gülen, then Erdogan would want MBS’s wallet and head. Any whichever way, the silver lining of this story is that for once, Saudi Arabia is finally running for cover. Few around the world will give this brutal royal family any sympathy.
There are other rumours spreading in the Arab world now alluding to the removal of MBS from office and passing over the reins to his brother. MBS has committed heinous war crimes in Yemen and has made huge errors of judgment with regard to Syria and Qatar. He made many enemies, and it seems that Erdogan is out to get him.
It does seem possible that the Assad-must-go curse has reached the neck of the Saudi throne.
https://www.rt.com/news/442023-khashoggis-body-parts-found/
Allegedly?
Erdogan presentation to his party today too…most media seemingly reporting deep international concern and hubris from arms suppliers..interestingly enough apparently K handed his two phones to fiancee before he went in…..any good journalist would have left a cache somewhere to be opened incase of certain events??????
No confirmation of victims “screams “etc …although a there is one report he was held in a stranglehold which would prevent such vocalisation?
You left the elephant out of the room. You are right that Jamal Khashoggi had no need to enter the consulate for his divorce, and you suggested the reason being quid pro quo.
But why enter the consulate in Turkey? And, not in USA?
And, why not the Embassy as the Ambassador has more power, than the Consular?
Also, both the Muslim Brotherhood have Wahhabism have been friends for ages, as their theology is very similar with each other. And, if fact Erdogan is not Muslim Brotherhood but a Sufi.
So, why did you leave out the elephant in the room, Israel. With the fall of Saudi Arabia, Israel has more to loose and Iran has more to gain.
Talha
I was waiting for this article.
Looks B is not buying this version.
“There seem to be a lot of conspiracy theories being weaved around the case. Some of them were mentioned in the comments here. I don’t buy it. Turkey did not arrange the incident. I see no sign that the U.S., Israel, Qatar or the UAE had a hand in this. This was a very stupid crime committed by Mohammad bin Salman. Or even worse, a mistake. The wannabe-sultan Erdogan is a crafty politician. He is simply riding the wave.”
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/10/how-will-caligula-fall.html#more
I’ve read several articles about Khashoggi and my feeling right now is everyone is lying, including B and Ghassan Kadi. (wrote this article. Mod.)
B ignores all said by Ghassan Kadi. And Ghassan Kadi is being soft on SA cuz Russian wants it.
SA is a prize big enough to the bear get out of his cave.
Deep State set the trap and SA fell like a kid cuz they are very predictable. They simply kill a lot!
Everybody is trying to profit and only one thing is sure about all this:
we will never know!
I read he had been in the Saudi Consulate in USA where MBS has his younger brother as Ambasador……….and he was connected to Turki bin Faisal Al Saud who graduated at Georgetown with Bill Clinton – with Clinton a supposed CIA asset and Faisal al Saud head of Saudi Intelligence it is clear certain policies were “agreed” which might not now be as stable as previously. This is very much an Insider Gangland Killing
Jamal Khashoggi being a KSA assets and being part of their intelligence is not dead and maybe, he has been safely whisked off to KSA. With Trump lately demeaning KSA in his tweets that KSA monarchy won’t last more than 2 weeks without USA, they have now decided to take matters in their hands. No one trusts the USA anymore, and especially Trump going around sanctioning his own friends.
Since, KSA like Qatar have lost in Syria, they (KSA) probably have now decided to join the Resistance of Axis (Russia, Syria, Iran and Hezbollah), as Turkey and Qatar are already leaning towards joining the Resistance of Axis. So, KSA doesn’t want to be left out alone in their own backyard. Time to make peace in their own backyard.
Talha
Seems to me that also the Old US Establishment, along with the EU Establishment, both anti-Trump, never wanted MbS in the first place. Israel, and therefore Trump, are happy with MbS but a lot of people would like to see him gone and get the old “safe” gang back (who paid handsome bribes/salaries for decades). MbS is similar to Trump, way too impulsive, unpredictable and manic, and a special kind of crazy on top to make for a reliable partner in crime.
The Establishment wants the Saudis to sell them their oil, then to recycle the money back into their economies. They’d prefer that they do this quietly, without any big fuss. They can get rich doing so, but they shouldn’t disrupt the world. And this is the role that the Saudis have played mostly for the last 60-70 years.
Until MbS.
So yes, it is conceivable that some other powerful people are getting a bit tired of him. The same powerful people who really don’t want the disruption of the world that a Shiite-Sunni war over the oil fields would cause. The same powerful friends who are also worried about Trump upsetting apple carts. Perhaps these powerful people are moving against a war, which means against Trump on Iran, and against MbS if they feel he keeps stirring things up too much.
One problem throughout this whole affair is that I don’t believe the Turks.
Erdogon shutdown or converted the independent media that they once had. And in a case like this, all information comes from the government anyways.
The Sauds have been rightly attacked for changing their story. But the Turks have been too. I’ve gotten the feeling that the ‘news’ reports from Turkish leaks (supposedly) have simply been the plot lines of various Hollywood movies. The body was cut up (with a chainsaw? like in Texas?), the body was dissolved in acid, the killers watched on Skype (always good to get that hip tech tie-in to a story). It can’t all be true.
To some extant, I get the feeling I’m watching Qatar money buying news stories to get back at the Sauds. If so, good for them.
Like The Salisbury Affair, The Case of the Disappearing Lover in Instanbul simply is going to have to be one to sit back and wait and see what if anything actually emerges as the truth.
Could not be sulphuric acid the “traditional acid” for dissolving bodies…you would need more than 25 litres…the most dangerous lethal fumes and smell would have filled the whole building which would have been contaminated…other people choking with deadly fumes….how to get acid in and out/disposed…..people in PPE hosing down etc etc……
I actually thought the “local contact” who supposed disposed of the body took it rolled up in a rug and cremated it.
Seems preety clueless to drop the bits in a well. Maybe the “local contact” was actually the consul, suggesting: Hey, I have an idea! How about dropping the body parts down the well?
That is about the dumbest thing I have heard yet in the Story of K.
Except, the idea of the body double.
The people who thought up the body double idea must be the same Einsteins who figured the well in the consul’s garden was a solution to disposal.
Keystone Konsul.
Katherine
Maybe I’m being sexist, but I imagine a discussion between the couple, with the future wife saying she wants to get married, while the future husband is saying “Ah, aren’t things great now? Why change it? We can just live together.”
That bit of imagination leads to the idea that one of Khashoggi’s last thoughts was “shit, I knew getting married again was a bad idea.”
Yes, you are right.
You are being sexist.
A far more interesting and productive line of thought:
The fiancee actually played a role in the political and intelligence drama.
Cherchez la femme!
But, in the right place, not in a smelly pile of old nonsense.
Katherine
The interesting thing was watching the US media go crazy about this. I kept thinking how different was this from Obama ordering Anwar Al-Awaki executed by drone strike? Al-Awaki received no trial, or even some kind of demand. Obama and his team just had him executed. So MBS is a horrible monster for doing exactly what Obama did.
And not to forget Assange.
Still fighting for his freedom and his life.
Elephant in the newsroom.
Katherine
Khashoggi seemed to be working to “end dictatorship” and spread “free speech,” democracy, voting, opinion polls, feminism, gender theory, lgbt washrooms, all that. All the great stuff of democracy. Worked out great in Sweden, why not Saudi Arabia?
All I’m getting out of this article is a desire to see the house of Saud fall. Plus some dense little leaguer stuff about a marriage or something. Come on!
It was Khashoggi beating the Assad must go drum. The last Saudi represented on this site said Assad is harmless as long as he understands Saudi interests exist in Syria. Not ideal, but a better offer than London’s. Further, the dead “journalist” believed Syria should be divided, and worse, that we should now act as if Assad is already gone – said the guy who got sawed up and buried under a flower bed.
Seems to come down to him being lied to, conn’d or lured into the consulate and his death.
Then we come to the whole other point of why on earth did the Saudis use their consulate as an assasination killing ground? Governments wanting to kill people is nothing new. That’s what governments do. Governments killing people within their consulates is very rare. For reasons that are now very obvious, if they weren’t before.
The pundits who say MBS wanted to send a message set off alarms in my brain. Because that is exactly the reason we are supposed to believe that Putin uses all sorts of bizarre assasination methods that are obviously traced back to him. He wants to send a message. Yeah, right. And that’s why they brought a bleep-storm of trouble down on top of their heads. To send a message?
Email is cheaper. And if someone is dead from methods not traced back to you, then someone else goes and whispers the message into the few ears you want to hear it, that is a lot more effective than either Novachuk in a park or a bloody murder in a consulate.
Israel/US/Saudi tried to pass Turkey off as the sole sponsor and creator of ISIS. It was an important player, certainly, largely because of its geographic location. So a bit of revenge?
As with all these events, there will be multiple facets from the various actors, some mutually exclusive.
The only thing that is certain so far is the west’s concern for Saudi’s alleged execution of a ‘journalist’ is rank hypocrisy.
I had some trouble with the syntax here:
“2. On the other hand, if Khashoggi indeed gave Saudi authorities vital information, so vital that it clearly is vehemently pro-Gülen, and as Gülen is no longer an American favourite, then upon his return to America he may have become a Saudi liability that can potentially muddy the Saudi-American waters that the Saudis desperately try to keep clear. In such an instance, it would be opportune for the Saudis to finish him off before he could return to America.”
The SA gang would want to protect the “vital” . . . pro-Gulan” information obtained from K because that information would have given the SA gang an advantage in dealing with America because a K running free could expose SA sources and knowledge, so he had to be eliminated. (??)
Or, Erdogan knows via Cengiz that K believes he can facilitate a deal between Gulan and SA to the detriment of Turkey, in order that K can protect his family in SA. But SA already knows somehow that K is in effect an agent for SA’s enemy Erdogan and is peddling polyester rugs, that K’s story is donkey doo, so SA believes K is betraying SA with said donkey doo, so out comes the Popeil’s Pocket Body Dismemberer. ??
“. . . should not be taken for (without) a grain of salt.” ??
As for the conflict between the Muslim Brotherhood and SA’s Wahabbists, it strikes me that the custodianship of the two holy mosques in SA, or better said the moral leadership role that said literal custodianship confers could be in contention if Erdogan can demonstrate to his immense egoic neo-Ottoman satisfaction belongs to Turkey under his direction.
It seems no matter who “wins” every one of the players loses credibility any way this plays out.
“ntion if Erdogan can demonstrate to his immense egoic neo-Ottoman satisfaction belongs to Turkey under his direction.”
This was my main takeaway from Erd’s address to Parliament. The bit about the Saudis as protectors of the holy cities. Like, maybe not. LIke, look at the mess they have made.
They are clearly incompetent and have no standing as protectors of holy sites.
Hmm, so who would be a better “protector”? Could it be the one who arrogates to himself the authority to call out false ‘protectors” by any chance?
Katherine
Katherine
Correction: speech not to parliament but to his own party members.
Katherine
Alastair Crooke: “Khashoggi’s Murder – At the Complex Intersection of Three Points of Inflection”
The primary ‘point of inflection’ on which the world has rightly seized, however, is the potential that President Trump will be grudgingly cornered, by the slow drip, drip, feed of the evidence – into a redress of the US–Saudi relationship for the first time since 1948.
. . .
Erdogan plainly has loftier ambitions. He is using this Khashoggi leverage now to pitch for the leadership of the Islamic world, no less – hoping to snatch it away from Saudi Arabia.
. . .
Where [Khashoggi] fell out with MbS therefore, was that he favoured not a turn to secularism or western-style ‘liberalism’, but a reforming Islamisation of Arab politics along Muslim Brotherhood lines – just like Erdogan, in fact. . . . Will Erdogan’s so-far successful leveraging of the Khashoggi murder also succeed in drawing in its wake, an inversion of US support away from the Gulf back toward the Turkish Muslim Brotherhood model?
. . .
And what constitutes a possible third latent point of inflection? Well, Israel of course. The former US Ambassador to Israel, Dan Shapiro, writes:
“The grisly hit-job on Khashoggi has implications far beyond its exposure of the Saudi Crown Prince as brutal and reckless. In Jerusalem and D.C., they’re mourning their whole strategic concept for the Mideast – not least, for countering Iran…”
. . .
Consequently, the strategic balance in the Middle East hangs precariously in the balance.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/pview/2018/10/23/khashoggi-murder-complex-intersection-three-points-inflection.html
Probably this murder will end with nothing more than “The Saudis are really evil.Who didn’t already know that”.But lets look at what we do know about the killing (and what is rumored in news reports).
Before Khashoggi goes into for the meeting.A team of 15 Saudi agents,several of them men close to MBS arrive from Saudi Arabia and go into the building.Including among them an autopsy expert with a “bonesaw”.One of them is a body double for Khashoggi and carries with him a fake beard to make his resemblance to Khashoggi even stronger.An hour or so later that man leaves the building wearing Khashoggi’s clothes and sunglasses.And the fake beard.So that the CCTV might record him as Khashoggi.
RT reports that minutes before the killing Khashoggi talks on the phone to MBS.Its thought that MSB wants Khashoggi to agree to return to Saudi Arabia, Khashoggi refuses.Right after that Khashoggi is killed and dismembered.The Turkish press is now reporting that parts of Khashoggi’s remains have been found in a well at the Saudi Consuls official residence.I’d say with that kind of evidence anyone would have to be braindead (or just not willing to admit the truth for political reasons),to not conclude MBS is up to his beard in this conspiracy to commit murder.
One question being asked is why would MBS risk it.But I think the answer is simple.He believes he is untouchable and can do whatever he wants (the track record for that is pretty good for him until now,and maybe now as well).He took power in Saudi Arabia from his cousins,and got away with it.He starts and conducts a bloody war against Yemen,and isn’t punished.He holds hostage dozens of the wealthiest Saudis and tortures them for large chunks of their wealth.And gets away with it.He kidnaps the Lebanese PM,and forces him to resign (at least for a while).And he gets no punishment even for that.He threatens Qatar with war,closes the border.And still no punishment.He funds terrorists all over the Middle East.And yet again no punishment.So why on earth would he pause at murdering a “pain in the a$$” Saudi dissident who dares to defy him.He may have gone a “bridge too far” this time.But his record points to his surviving this time too (hopefully not).
https://www.rt.com/news/441922-khashoggi-clothing-embassy-turkey/
https://www.rt.com/news/441915-mbs-jamal-khashoggi-call/
https://www.rt.com/news/442023-khashoggis-body-parts-found/
my first reaction to this whole thing was that it was the CIA getting MBS — for telling Trump ‘no more oil’ – at that low price –
Can you imagine for a moment that this IS a set up by the Turkish government and/or CIA and that the whole story is fake news. MBS – would be shi**ing his pants over there in Riyadh – that was my first strong picture – was the panic in Riyadh –
But then there was so much additional evidence that I gave up that first impression
also – why on earth put the body parts somewhere where they are obviously going to be found quickly- unless you’re framing someone ?
I agree with your analysis. Just plain and simple human arrogance.
Has anyone commented of the features of this grisly murder that make it look like some kind of ritual murder?
They could have just stabbed or strangled him or druged him.
\Why cut off fingers?
Symbolism?
Why deface facial features?
Was he drawn and quartered like traitors in medieval Europe?
Or was it renaissance Europe?
And, what happened to all the blood?
How did they keep it off the clothing that the body double then donned?
Just wondering what kind of “message” K’s murder was designed to send to him, as he died.
Or, what kind of cultic weirdness was being provided for bin Salman to feel satisfaction at the manner of the death?
Katherine
Assuming this was all premeditated you’d just have to have a collection of the suits he wore -then it didn’t have to be the one he was wearing. However this body double theatrics is so amateurish and the known video coverage so extensive that it almost looks like this part was set up by Turkey or USA as deliberate embarrassment.
Same with the body disposal -looks deliberately designed to fail.
Disappearing anybody is trivial to professionals.
If I was in the business I’d start by owning a funeral home.
Hi Ghassan – thanks for the ‘high octane speculation” ala Joseph Farrall – – it does seem to make sense – and the fact that the fiance waited so long – is a clue.
Love your articles –
Ann
Somehow, it looks like the Kashoggi saga is a design to get back at Saudi Arabia for the failure of the Syrian (Assad-must-go) project..that failed. The Arab League countries are going back to Damascus, etc…Huge amounts have been invested in this misadventure by the western elites and it has failed. Its time for pay back. Turkey was quick to yell “murder” only a few hours after the event. So Kashoggi must have been planted for some reason like what this article says. I believe everything was done by design by the Turkish and Western elites. Saudi Arabia is going to get it …either the western elites get their investment back or Saudi Arabia will be dismembered like Kashoggi.We are just seeing the beginning..
So if SA and bin Salman are the patsies, does this remind you of something?
The official 9/11 narrative, which some in SA must be smart enough to know is a crock.
Most likely is that some Saudi Arabian assets got hoodwinked into providing the facade narrative for 9/11
Now, maybe they’ve been had again.
With bin Salman and the executors being the patsies. And, the Saudi Arabians are thirdly hoodwinked into “taking care of” the exectutors themselves . . .
Just musing . . .
BTW, using “Saudi” to refer to subjects of the KSA is handy shorthand but also seems to reinforce the idea that they are all slaves or possessions of the tribe of Saud. How did this tribe get to name a whole country after themselves? If the Hashemites had prevailed back in the day, would Arabia have been dubbed Hashemi Arabia?
Just wondering.
Katherine
Aren’t the British and their French Imperial Junior partners responsible for almost everything in the Middle East post the WW I aftermath of dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire?
As far as I know, the Brits provided the rifles with which Ibn Saud prevailed over the other tribal chiefs of the Arabian Peninsula……and stole the whole thing for the Empire, f”fair and square”.
But I agree with you: The place where I was born should just be called “Arabia” and should not be a kingdom. That’s what I always called it, as a child..”Arabia”..so I guess I intuited that “Saudi” was not an eternal adjective……….
Neither should the United Kingdom ….be forever a kingdom…….or “United” either.
Ooops! “Republic of California”??
This whole episode reads like the 1001 Arabian Knights’ Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves. From all over the world…..not just Arabia….
Thierry Meyssan of Voltairenet appears to have thoughts similar to mine!
“The Arabia of the Saoud family
For seventy years, we have been ignoring the facts, shouting : « Saudi Arabia is not a State like the others. It’s the private property of the King, and all the people that live there are no more than serfs. That is why it is described as the residence of it’s owners, the Saoud family, in other words, « Saudi » Arabia ».”
http://www.voltairenet.org/article203589.html
Katherine
Another bit from the Theirry Meyssan piece, which is well worth a read:
“However, at the end of the Second World War, the United States seized the opportunity presented by the weakened British forces, and took their place. President Franklin Roosevelt concluded the Quincy Pact with the founder of kingdom. The United States pledged to protect the Saoud family in exchange for their hydrocarbons. Apart from that, the Saoud family would not oppose the creation of a Jewish State in Palestine. This document was renewed by President George W. Bush.
. . . ”
Katherine
Thanks Ghassan for an excellent and insightful article.
When I first read the news of Khashoggi’s demise the first thought that ran through my mind was ‘praying mantis’, the — pardon my crudity — cannibals are at it. Internecine rivalry at its best.
Khashoggi was a member of the Saudi establishment. He was anti-MBS and anti-Wahhabi for sure but he never lost the AZEmpire’s narrative that the ‘Arab Spring’ was good for Arabs regardless of the death and destruction wreaked across MENA. Anybody who cares to read his articles (thoughtfully collected together by the Washington Post in both English and Arabic: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/10/06/read-jamal-khashoggis-columns-for-the-washington-post) can see that.
He was anti-Yemen war but that was only because the war was instigated and run by the criminal MBS. And all the while he was silent about KSA’s cooperation with the Zionist regime, even when his nemesis MBS said that the Palestinians should capitulate to the Zionists currently infesting the west of the Levant.
I’ve said earlier that there is an incipient competition between the Turks and the Saudis for leadership of the Sunni Islamic world. It looks like it’s coming out into the open now.
THe Muslim Brotherhood vs Wahhabi conundrum adds another layer to the contest although the original ideologues of both, Hassan al-Banna (MB) and Muhammad Abdul Wahhab (Wahhabi), wanted a return to ‘pure’ Islam; so it could translate to ‘we both want the same thing as far as Islam is concerned, but my way is better’ sort of situation.
Whatever it is, it’s praying mantis time again. Poor Khashoggi was set up in the opening gambit: The Wahhabi Sauds are now being set up for a fall by their AZE allies — perhaps because they’re not more successful in their support of the Zionist entity in the sense that they’ve failed to change Muslim minds about Israel; make Israel’s existence more normative for Muslims despite all the goodwill that Saudi money can buy. The Sauds won’t be missed when they vacate the Arabian peninsula along with their Wahhabi ‘spiritual guides’.
The Saudis will also find that their gold will “vacate” their ownership and end up in the banks of Wall Street and the London City.
The MbS “revolution” bears marks of a setup, similar to how Saddam Hussein was set up as dictator over Iraq. After MbS cleared out all internal competition and collected all the major Saudi corporations and money making mechanisms in his own hands all you need to do is take down him, declare Saudi a failed state and the vast Saudi fortune will vanish forever into the bank accounts of the Western/Zionist Elites.
Since his son has a travel ban preventing him from leaving Saudi Arabia it suggests a “hostage” as the old Soviet Bloc used to employ when family travelled abroad. How would Khashoggi get his son out of Saudi ?
We read he had bought an apartment in Turkey…….in whose name ?
“How would Khashoggi get his son out of Saudi ?”
Maybe that was part of what Khashoggi was trying to do in entering the embassy to get documents.
Maybe that’s why there was a Skype interview between K and Salman—so K could plead with Salman “in person” to release his son to him (K) in Istanbul.
Since it looks like he didn’t need to go there to marry his fiancee or get a divorce from his wife.
Maybe this info/reason for Consulate Walk has been suppressed to protect the son.
Katherine
The link for this was left at my place, so I’ve come to read it.
Kadi consistently pushes an anti- Turkey narrative. So, I read this and am not shocked at all.
The very idea that Khashoggi is a journalist is not credible.
Let’s talk about him as a CIA operative- which is vastly more realistic
I mean, come on. Washington Post? 8 years traveling off and on with Osama Bin Laden- At the time those Usrael proxies were engaged in a proxy war with Russia.
As a CIA operative Khashoggi would have been involved in all sorts of dealings that would have earned him enemies- No honour among thieves. So, that could have been a factor in this incident.
The fiance? Is she the fiance?
Khashoggi’s own family say they don’t know her. Their spokesperson stated as such.
The divorce paper retrieval is simply non credible. If not for her that entire narrative would not exist.
It’s entirely possible she’s an Israel plant- Or an American plant? Concocting a narrative with hopes of worsening relations between Turkey and Saudi Arabia.
Kadi: ” Gülen is no longer an American favourite” Since when?
If that was true the American’s would have given him up. They haven’t.
So it seems sensible Gulen is still very much a favourite- what with his entire network of brainwashing schools and ‘construction companies’.. good for smuggling etc.,
Perhaps, perhaps, the Saudi’s just had him killed. For reasons all of their own.
Maybe it had something to do with the fact that Khashoggi had created an NGO geared towards destabilizing the Saudi regime
Khashoggi launched ‘pro democracy’ group
“Sources familiar with his plans told The Daily Beast that he was working to launch a non-governmental organization whose stated purpose was to boost democracy and human rights in the Arab world.
The group, called Democracy for the Arab World Now (DAWN), was incorporated in the state of Delaware as a tax-exempt organization in January of this year, according to documentation reviewed by The Daily Beast. According to a statement of core principles, the group would aim to provide “a counter narrative in the Arab world and the West to Arab Spring skeptics.” Its members also planned to advocate to corporate leaders, policymakers, journalists, and think tanks on behalf of democracy in the Middle East.”
And for the Canadians- Khashoggi was connected to a Saudi ‘dissident’ here in Canada who wanted ‘freedom’ for Saudi society- Jamal Khashoggi sent this freedom loving fellow 5,000.00 and helped him with what can only be using social media as a destabilizing force.
https://www.yayacanada.ca/home/more-on-the-khashoggi-canada-connection
“According to Omar, the two were in constant contact over the summer, Jamal having become like a father to him, phoning him every day to check on him, even sending him money (“about $5000″) that would allow him to buy extra microchips to help foil Twitter’s invasive user information requirements.”
Or maybe it had much to do with the close relationship built with Russia etc.,
Business. Oil. Military. And more- Which competed with the US hope to plunder Saudi Arabia under the auspices of Vision 2030
Lots to read: Saudi Arabia gets a friend in need – Russia
Oh and one more
https://nomadiceveryman.blogspot.com/2018/10/why-sudden-universal-turn-against-mbs.html
Thank you so much for the Scott Creighton link.
I had tried to find it on the basis of info earlier in the thread but failed.
I had never heard of Scott Creighton.
Verrrrrry interesting.
And of course Creighton makes perfect sense.
Makes one wonder whether someone hinted in Salman’s ear that he should just go ahead and behead Kash at the earliest opportunity?
No problemo . . .
Still, how to lure him into the Consulate?
Katherine
Hi Katherine:
Very brilliant observation you’ve made
“Makes one wonder whether someone hinted in Salman’s ear that he should just go ahead and behead Kash at the earliest opportunity?”
If you check the post at my blog it had embedded an article from MK Bhadrakumar..
He writes “Just an afterthought: Can it be mere coincidence that the West is gunning for MBS today? All attention is on what happened to Jamal Khashoggi. But what really happened in the run-up to his ghastly murder in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul we may never get to know. Can it be comparable to the mistaken impression Saddam Hussein received that Washington would condone his occupation of Kuwait? There are no easy answers.”
It’s entirely possible that someone did indeed hint in Bin Salmon’s ear- go ahead- it’s all good
the precedent being the double cross of Saddam Hussein.
This would fit, very much, into the idea of MBS being set up for a fall, with the hopes of taking Turkey along for the ride.
I had written previously about this idea of taking down Saudi Arabia for a number of reasons.
“Mockingbird’s Usurper Eggs: Media Psyops & The Further Subordination of Saudi Arabia
So it was quite interesting to me to see MK Bhadrakumar write along those lines.
As for Scott’s writings. I find him thought provoking. Like myself he didn’t get caught up in the sensationalism of this incident- While too many others did- I mean really what difference does it make how Khashoggi was killed- All these sensational details were distractions..
If it bleeds it leads
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/two-takes-depression/201106/if-it-bleeds-it-leads-understanding-fear-based-media
“Another pattern in newscasts is that the breaking news story doesn’t go beyond a surface level. The need to get-the-story-to-get-the-ratings often causes reporters to bypass thorough fact-checking. As the first story develops to a second level in later reports, the reporter corrects the inaccuracies and missing elements. As the process of fact-finding continually changes, so does the news story. What journalists first reported with intense emotion or sensationalism is no longer accurate. What occurs psychologically for the viewer is a fragmented sense of knowing what’s real, which sets off feelings of hopelessness and helplessness -“
While this article is related to persons who have suffered depression- the idea of if it bleeds it leads is real- it’s done to imbue the consumer with feelings of hopelessness/helplessness and enforce the idea of being reliant on perceived authority. Someone to save them.
The Khashoggi sensationalism was over the top in this aspect. No one felt better because of it and everyone is looking for someone to take charge… sorry for the ramble. In my nearly 11 years of citizen journalism, the Khashoggi incident has been one of the most shocking examples of this horrific type of manipulation. Haven’t seen anything like this since 9/11. Eye opening to say the least!
Very helpful and enlightning. And a completely different view.
Whatever there is something fishy in all of this.
What do we know, Kashoggi went into the consulate but did not come out. 15 Saudi’s including MBS bodyguards came to Turkey and entered the consulate before Kashoggi. it is now admitted that Kashoggi was killed by the Saudi’s. A day after the murder, Hatice Cengiz, claiming to be his fiancee, claims his disappearance. Erdogan claims his intelligence agency has an audio of his murder. We know the fiasco is not disappearing from MSM as it usually would. We can assume Kashoggi>Washington Post> CIA along with his father Adnan>Iran Contra. + known association with Prince Turki>Saudi Intelligence. Although barely mentioned in MSM we know the Saudi near genocide of the Houthis is not going well.I don’t think the Powers That Be (PTB) were happy wiith MBS threatening war with Qatar and closing the border. Speaking of the PTB, there is the Trump faction who is big with MSB and the Hillary — Soros faction who are happy this is happening not to mention Erdogan (lately defected to Russia but used the US bluster about interfering (fake chemical attack) in Syria’s Idlib attack to get what he wanted. There is the game of thrones aspect with UAE’s Mohammed bin Zayed and Qatar’s Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani. Israel has been working with Saudi Arabia since their cooperation making 9/11 happen. There was some limited hangout use for Pakistan in case the official conspiracy theory was outed but so much time has gone by that Saudi Arabia would be used these days. We will know more (or not) depending on the final outcome is.
” Israel has been working with Saudi Arabia since their cooperation making 9/11 happen. ”
Huh, must say it never occurred to me that Mossad and KSA might have worked together to make 9/11 happen.
But wouldn’t that be a *huge* intel risk, in terms of the truth coming out?
Or, does anyone who might spill the beans get offed first, or has already been offed.
I should think that Khashoggi would have been a pretty risk in this sense, since as past friend of OBL, he might surely be in a good position to know inside story on the extent, or lack of it, of Saudis and OBS role in the 9/11 attacks.?
Katherine
OBS:
I meant
OBL, Osama bin Laden.
These speculations may be called colourful but not convincing.
If Khashoggi had material for the Saudis to be used against Turkey: why would he even consider to visit the Saudi embassy in Istanbul>/i>?? He has been living in the USA – do the Saudis have no consulate or embassy there? i don’t think so.
Interesting claims and argument. I do not know enough about the cultural aspects to have an opinion about the claims of pending marriage.
But I recall that US Intel-Law required warning Mr K. And that US intel knew, but did not warn. The Law permits this, provided that not warning is important to a superior operation. Ergo, the logic says Mr K was set up to be liquidated, presumably by either Turkey of US, or in cooperation.
Something similar was the liquidation of Sophie and Franz Ferdinand …
It is often with regret that we see that we have begun processes that we can no longer stop…
“Ergo, the logic says Mr K was set up to be liquidated, presumably by either Turkey of US, or in cooperation.”
Or, Mr. K and Mr. BS were set up to be eliminated.
Katherine
Just remembered….the guy assassinated on the bridge in Moscow and his ukraine “girlfriend”……similar?
The abundance of shifting facts prevents knowing all that happened, but a focus on the facts that have not changed may illuminate.
The brutality of the killing suggests strong emotions were involved. This emotional outburst would be from MBS and some of his inner circle.
The hasty and incomplete way the body was removed and discarded suggests that recent developments prompted the killing. It would be a premeditated killing, but planned for days, not weeks or months.
MBS and Kashoggi had a phone conversation prior to his murder. Timing and the degree of nrutality involved suggest to me that is was on the order of, “Did you really do this? Do you deny that? How stupid do you think I am?”
The fiancée story is a cover. She was either part of the plot to instigate the killing, or she was part of a misinformation campaign. I think the later.
MBS is an embarrassment and a troublemaker. There are many people both inside the KSA and elsewhere who want/need to see him gone ASAP.
Kashoggi may also have been a liability to both (or all three) sides. Using him to provoke MBS, and to induce his own death under embarrassing circumstances seems to me the most likely scenario.
Who benefits? If MBS is removed, the entire world. With Kashoggi gone, mostly those for whom he worked and had become troublesome.
I agree that what you propose is “highly likely”…seriously, I agree. But the ideas beg new questions… Such as what was it that Mr K had recently done that may have made his murder seem like a good idea? Yes, I assume there are more than one beneficiaries – a feature of deep political events. Who in the American club was offended recently by Mr K? Logic suggests that the game was an American game, as otherwise they’d have “warned but, alas, too late” or whatever… Anyway assuming that logic, cui bono in DC?
Such as what was it that Mr K had recently done that may have made his murder seem like a good idea?
Did it have to be something he had done recently? Khashoggi seems to have been up to his neck in all sorts of interesting activities for many years, as were his relatives. As some as suggested, his use by date may simply have passed, in which case some sort of fabricated story would do, as in an intelligence scoop given to him by handlers unknown, and that was believed by MBS to have been misleading, and therefore some sort of betrayal. I am not suggesting that this was what had happened, only that the decision to end Khashoggi need not have been based on any recent activity on his part. He may have been deemed culpable of something, sometime, somewhere, and thus suitable as a pawn in a multipart scheme to get MBS.
Seriously, we will never know what is was he did. But we can watch and see what happens and this will tell us why.
The more I think about it, the more I think K’s biggest sin was that he was a perfect foil for MBS, i.e. was someone whose behavior, real and/or contrived, would be enough to enrage the sainted prince, but was also known well enough that his death would be newsworthy. The death of some ordinary serf would hardly be news; the loss of this WaPo journalist was.
Track down the money.
Might be a tad more difficult from now on, especially if Swift goes by the wayside but then again… the Zionists created that pestilence. They own it and it will come back to haunt them, one way or the other. From everywhere, worldwide.
If I were non-Zionist Jewish, knowing what was done in my name for centuries without ever speaking against it and daring to question history, I would be very, very concerned. We are all responsible for all the ills we did not denounce. Even more so when they were committed in our name. Victimhood does end somewhere, no matter how much money is poured into it.
Isn’t there a flaw in this theory?
As in: the reason why there were 15 goons waiting for Khashoggi is that this was the SECOND time he had been to the consulate. The FIRST time he walked in, had a chat with a consular official, was told that his papers would take a few days to process, and was then sent on his way.
So it is hard to fathom him demanding some assurances regarding his safety if this is the SECOND trip to the consulate, with the FIRST trip ending very uneventfully indeed.
Why would he be concerned that a 15-man hit squad had been assembled when there were no such hitmen hanging around during his first visit and not a hair on his head was touched?
They are trying to set up MBS, its all about the oil… And after reading this… He really needs to be diligent. Trust no one.
I do not claim any special knowledge on Muslim psyche, but having read tons in the past I do not believe that MSB would trust anyone. More like he would be extremely suspicious of anyone and anything. Particularly when it comes to Saudi Royalty, he has to deal with hundreds of contenders for the throne (half-brothers and first cousins would be enough without going to more distant cousins).