This morning, when I read this, I could hardly believe my eyes:
Iran Welcomes Libya’s Total Liberation
Iran Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi sent a message to the new leaders of Libya hailing “the total liberation of the country,” the Mehr news agency reported Tuesday. Salehi said he hoped the Libyan people would exercise their sovereignty by “installing a regime based on religious democracy while preserving the independence and stability of the country with no influence or interference by foreign forces.”
The comments were made in a message addressed to Libya’s interim leader, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, Mehr said. Iranian foreign ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast on Friday welcomed the death of Gaddafi, saying it removed any “pretext” for NATO to continue its air operations in Libya.
It is beyond me how Iran could possibly call Libya ‘liberated’ or how Iranian diplomats could seriously place any hope in elections run by what is essentially a CIA/al-Qaeda joint venture.
First, the Russians. Now, the Iranians. Has everybody gone insane over Libya?!
The Saker
Not sure how you can call this a strategic miscalculation. I’m in total agreement with you on what is happening in Libya. But Iran has no means at all to affect the outcome.
Under the circumstances, Iran would be better off trying to be on good terms with who ever runs Libya. If that proves to be impossible (if Libya will be a US/Saudi puppet) then nothing was lost in trying. Also, warning against NATO plunder, as A’nejad did, is exactly the right approach IMHO.
@Lysander: I guess I am naive, or romantic, but I don’t believe in calling good bad and bad good, even for pragmatic reasons. Furthermore, the Iranians are supposed to be Muslims, then how can they tolerate that a fellow Muslim, no matter how misguided or superficial his Islam was, be treated like this:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29508.htm
and all this in the name of Islam (since the rabid psychopats who tortured him to death did that under the joy-filled screams of “Allahu Akbar”!).
What happened in Sirte is an absolute disgrace. It far from being the only one which happened during this disgusting war, but its a highly publicized one, and it is also a highly symbolic one. As you know, I was from Day 1 opposed to the Gaddafi regime, but that does not mean that the humiliation and torture to death of an acting head of state by religious psychopaths does not fill me with disgust. And, again, the Muslim world is looking away, in the name of pragmatism. Well, I guess I don’t like pragmatism any more. I guess pragmatism is a luxury that only non-religious folks are entitled to, but those claiming to accept God’s rule and will should never, ever, yield to ‘pragmatic’ considerations, IMHO.
@Lysander: here are two quotes which I wish the Iranians had pondered:
Thou shalt not be a victim.
Thou shalt not be a perpetrator.
And above all,
Thou shalt not be a bystander
Yehuda Bauer
First they came for the communists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
I think the answer to this is simple. I know that Russia is NWO. They are just playing the other side of the problem, thats why they never use their leverage to actually stop the US. Just look at who funded the Bolsheviks.
That being said, I also suspect Iran is as well. They are playing their role to arm the other side, with help from the Russians as well.
I think the internationalists had to throw out the arab dictators and replace them with the crazies (the wahabis) and whatever other radicals they can find. This will polarize the muslim world against fighting the israelis/us and it can be another great big war. And the israelis aren’t doing themselves any favors by keeping their particular brand of warmongering crazies in power either.
In the end, I see nothing good coming from this… and the fact that leaders of countries are privy to way more intel, you would think they knew exactly how gaddafi died. Just killing a head of state, any head of state, in that manner would make any sane person not want to deal with the west… yet the Iranians and their press TV helped NATO the whole time. Makes you wonder.
Then again, maybe Iran figures this will be another quagmire like Iraq, and it would be better to fight an even more fatigued foe. Either way, it’s another step to another all out world war.
Next Syria… then maybe that will be the big flashpoint?
-AAA
They already come for me….
First they took over the Persians
then they ruled Poland and Ukraïne(*)
Later they destroyed Russia
Just recently they wrecked America
and now they are plundering our governments.
(Yes, I am angry.)
(*)Fernand Braudel: ( in La Mediterrannée.. pag 137) : In Poland, which burst suddenly into modernity at the beginning of the fifteenth century, there is a growing jewish ascendance, the result of numbers, and almost a jewish nation and state….
Braudel speaks about the Arendar system in Poland and later Ukraïne.
Information about the Arendar system: Holocaust and Holomodor. Nic. Lysson.
@AAA & Jan Verheul: Iran and Russia are both a source of extreme frustration for me as both have a huge potential, and both are misplaying their hands by making stupid strategic moves (such as Russia backstabbing Libya and Iran (!) at the UNSC) for some illusory tactical advantage (which always fails to materialize).
What I find so lacking in the modern politicians is the simple courage to call the things by their name, to “simply” stand up for what is right, and condemn what is wrong, and to hell with the consequences. Besides, there are no bad consequences for doing what is right, at least not in the long term, as I do firmly believe that God does defend those who remain true to the Truth or, in other words, true to Him: Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. (Matt 10:32-33)
Gaddafi, for all his sins, at least died with words of truth in his mouth. Iranian and Russian leaders don’t seem to believe that the evil of the Empire can be resisted with moral compromises. I think that they are very wrong.
I agree with Lysander, and was going to write basically the same thing, but then held off …
But I also agree with Saker that Iran should have been more principled about it, especially the end of Qaddhafi and about the other evil deeds of the “rebels”.
I read somewhere today
http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/10/25/idINIndia-60120420111025
that “Libya’s mufti, Sadeq el-Gheriany, said earlier in the week that Gaddafi was not a Muslim”.
That kind of takfirism of course feeds into the whole demonization of the “other” which then leads to desecration of bodies etc.
I’m glad the Sunni authorities of al-Azhar stayed clear of the frenzy:
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“God honoured man dead or alive and set ethics for wars,” el-Tayyeb said, calling on all Muslims to respect these ethics and maintain the honor of the dead which are “religious obligations”.
========
I wish I had heard something similar from Iran.
Peace
@Lysander:If that proves to be impossible (if Libya will be a US/Saudi puppet) then nothing was lost in trying
But that hope is phenomenally naive. First, the Wahabis and West are both absolute enemies of the Shia and it would be naive to the point of suicidal for the Iranian Shia to ignore that. Should they have any doubts, a quick look into the carnage in Bahrain really says it all. Add to this that the Persians are not Arabs and God knows that Arab nationalism is rampant amongst extremist Sunnis for whom Shia=Persian and even amongst Baathists. There is just no way that the new regime in Tripoli will not be rabidly anti-Iranian. In fact, I would be willing to bet that AFRICOM will soon be in Libya and that Libya will become the rear-base for a massive destabilization and infiltration of sub-Saharan Africa by both the USraelians and al-Qaeda types, as always, working hand in hand. And these folks have only one plan for Iran and for the Shia: destroy them because they represent a real danger for the Ziocon plans for world domination and because the Wahabis consider them as a particularly offensive heresy.
I am sure that the Iranians understand all this, of course. And Russia and China also understand that what has begun is a recolonization of Africa. It’s not brains that they all lack. It’s honor, principle and courage, I am sad to say.
@EVERYBODY: and if you get the impression that I sound bitter and disgusted, its because I am. My hopes that Libya was the scene of a real, popular uprising like the one we saw in Egypt’s Tahrir square have been dashed by a sickening realization that instead of seeing a repeat of Egypt, we were witnessing a repeat of Bosnia and Kosovo. And, I am sad to say, the vast majority of observers took what I call an “ideological position” instead of a simple “support that which is just, oppose that which is evil” regardless of the nationalities, flags, religions, or political factions involved.
As for what was done to Gaddafi himself, it outrages me beyond words. I don’t even get any consolation from the fact that I am quite sure that the karma, the blowback, of what was done to this man will, no doubt, be formidable, even if it takes years to materialize.
Its not about Gaddafi only. This is a potent message of how the Empire and its supporters will deal with any opponents, regardless of how much they were courted by this Empire in the past.
Yeah, I am angry, disgusted and discouraged.
And what will be no doubt called the “African wars” have just started…
Yes this is a huge strategic victory for the Empire. The ideology of “humanitarian intervention” gets a huge boost and I’ve no doubt whatever that AFRICOM will be moving in to a new HQ in Tripoli. Just what Africa needs. This is not just about the Libyan oil but also the struggle between the US and China for control over Africa’s resources.
We share your disgust, saker, and I wrote a sentence about karma in my previous reply before erasing it for fear it might come off too strong.
Not just Iran, but African countries did not do enough to stand up to this. Aside from some principled protest early on — eg Uganda’s president as quoted in my piece earlier — the African union should have done more and said more.
This episode demonstrates just how weak the opposition to the empire around the world really is at the moment …
Peace
Saker, Ishamid
While I might wish for Iran to be more vocal in it’s criticism, I know that it can’t.
Supposing Libya does become a Wahabist hell? You will notice that Iran is always trying to smooth talk Saudi Arabia itself…the Mordor of Wahabism. It does not do this because it wants to, but because it has too. They know perfectly well the sectarian games SA is playing and to attack them openly would play right into it.
I condemn completely what happened to MQ. But is it much different than what happened to Mussolini or Ceausescu? Qaddafi was an extremely unpopular figure in the entire Arab world, not just Libya. Iran would not do itself any favors by speaking up in his defense. Perhaps it would be nice if they did, but of all the cynical things that go on in the international arena, this one doesn’t even rate.
It is too early to say that Libya will be a strategic victory for the west. There is too great a likelihood it will end up as a Somalia rather than a Saudi Arabia. That will not bode well for Southern Europe. The rebels are not unified and they there are not enough of them to control al of Libya. Also, I suspect many in Libya will resist Wahabism violently.
Perhaps the likeliest outcome in Libya will be the affect it has on Syria. Not in the sense that the protesters there think. But rather any Syrians on the fence between Assad and the opposition will look at Libya and stick with Assad. (I am not a fan of Assad, but neither am I a fan of the opposition.)
1) The Russians were not cheerleaders for the NTC like the Iranians are long term strategic necessity or ability to effect western intervention against the clownish Gadaffi regime.
2 The Iranian regime has been financing Islamic revolutionaries/terrorists from 79 onwards from Afghanistan to Iraq, Tajikistan, Bosnia and Chechnya so it is no surprise that they would celebrate the overthrow of the secular regime in Libya.
3) Why the sudden love for Gadaffi? During the war you were criticising the Libyan regime.
@Lysander: Saudi Arabia itself…the Mordor of Wahabism
Oh, I love that expression, I will have to re-use that :-))
But is it much different than what happened to Mussolini or Ceausescu?
No, not really. And these were also repugnant executions, committed by hypocrites and ex secret-service thugs (at least in the case of Ceausescu). But what makes me really mad is the religious ‘cloak’ given to the lynchmob in Sirte. At least in Romania and Italy these murders were not committed by folks screaming God is Great(er). A murder is a murder, but a murder in the name of God is always a blasphemy.
I know, that’s me again being naive. And our secularist thought police will probably kick in and have a hissy-fit at me for saying that, but yes, I do hold people who dare call themselves religious to a much higher ethical standard not because religious people are somehow inherently better (they are not), but because the mere fact of declaring oneself religious should impose upon any person the obligation to act in conformity with his/her faith (non-religious folks can do whatever the hell they want, and they will not be hypocrites for choosing their own self-will over the will of a God they don’t even believe in).
I loathe hypocrisy, but religious hypocrisy I loathe above all other.
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While I might wish for Iran to be more vocal in it’s criticism, I know that it can’t.
Supposing Libya does become a Wahabist hell? You will notice that Iran is always trying to smooth talk Saudi Arabia itself…the Mordor of Wahabism. It does not do this because it wants to, but because it has too. They know perfectly well the sectarian games SA is playing and to attack them openly would play right into it.
===============
Perfectly put, Lysander, perfectly put.
As for Mordor: That’s the Najd region of the Arabian Peninsula — including Riyadh — they have no right to claim the rest of Peninsula :D
Indeed, you may notice that, in my article, I never mention “Saudi Arabia”, which is a fictional entity. The arrogance in naming a land after a family is astounding. So Hejaz, Ahsaa’, Najran, Qatif etc are under the rule of the Mordor of Wahhabism, Riyadh.
:-) :-) :-)
Peace