(red bolded color added to the original)
Meeting in Vienna, on October 30, 2015, China, Egypt, the EU, France, Germany, Iran, Iraq, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, the United Nations, and the United States [“the participants”] came together to discuss the grave situation in Syria and how to bring about an end to the violence as soon as possible.
The participants had a frank and constructive discussion, covering major issues. While substantial differences remain among the participants, they reached a mutual understanding on the following:
- Syria’s unity, independence, territorial integrity, and secular character are fundamental.
- State institutions will remain intact.
- The rights of all Syrians, regardless of ethnicity or religious denomination, must be protected.
- It is imperative to accelerate all diplomatic efforts to end the war.
- Humanitarian access will be ensured throughout the territory of Syria, and the participants will increase support for internally displaced persons, refugees, and their host countries.
- Da’esh, and other terrorist groups, as designated by the U.N. Security Council, and further, as agreed by the participants, must be defeated.
- Pursuant to the 2012 Geneva Communique and U.N. Security Council Resolution 2118, the participants invited the U.N. to convene representatives of the Government of Syria and the Syrian opposition for a political process leading to credible, inclusive, non-sectarian governance, followed by a new constitution and elections. These elections must be administered under U.N. supervision to the satisfaction of the governance and to the highest international standards of transparency and accountability, free and fair, with all Syrians, including the diaspora, eligible to participate.
- This political process will be Syrian led and Syrian owned, and the Syrian people will decide the future of Syria.
- The participants together with the United Nations will explore modalities for, and implementation of, a nationwide ceasefire to be initiated on a date certain and in parallel with this renewed political process.
The participants will spend the coming days working to narrow remaining areas of disagreement, and build on areas of agreement. Ministers will reconvene within two weeks to continue these discussions.
This is in principle an excellent program of settlement. Of course we will have to see whether or not it is implemented.
Note that every single one of these provisions has been violated and trampled underfoot for more than a decade of U.S./Iranian occupation of Iraq.
The people of Iraq have been put through hell on earth. No one notices or cares.
Iraq is the black hole in the conscience of the world.
Or, should I say, A black hole?
David H
“Note that every single one of these provisions has been violated and trampled underfoot for more than a decade of U.S./Iranian occupation of Iraq.”
Quite unaware that Iran has occupied (now, or ever) Iraq. Specially unaware that Iran has ever occupied Iraq under any form of cooperation with the U.S..
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42184.htm
I think the point David H was making may have been that Iran had little or no influence in Iraq while Saddam Hussein was in power, because he (as a Sunni) favoured the Sunni minority and kept the Shia majority repressed. Then the USA invaded Iraq and had Saddam Hussein killed. Immediately the artificial Sunni dominance was shattered, and with the loosening of central government the Shia majority gained much greater influence. Some Iraqi Shia groups naturally chose cooperation with Iran, a Shia state, to the extent that Iran obtained great influence over the Iraqi government.
Under the Baath Iraq, was a modern secular state. The practice was to subsume Shiite and Sunni, Arab and Kurd, to a common Iraqi citizenship. What is this stuff about Saddam oppressed the Shiites? I never saw a thing to substantiate it. Originally the Iraqi Baath, when it was small, was mostly Sunni. But with modernity – education, industrialization, all that – it became representational of the population as a whole. Saddam, a man for whom I have great respect, had to fight a few battles but that was the outcome.
Shiite and Sunni lived among one another, married one another. It was not a problem. It only became one because the occupying oppressors made it so. A fair number of people spoke English, and well, a good indicator of educational advancement.
Tariq Aziz, Iraq’s celebrated long-serving foreign minister, was a Christian, btw. When I visited Iraq in 1995 my group had a fair amount of contact with Iraqi Christians. Nobody had a word of complaint. I got the impression the Christians, about 5% of the population, were something of an elite group.
Nor did Saddam “gas the Kurds.” It’s ridiculous. How could 182,000 people have been killed, as Barzani and Talabani claim, with so ineffective and unreliable an agent as poison gas. There is no evidence of such a thing. Where are the bodies? Where is the forensic evidence? There isn’t any. “The bigger the lie and the more often it is repeated,” as it is said.
The Halabja incident was a case of civilians killed in the crossfire of battle, not killed by reason of ethniticy. It could have been an Iranian false-flag operation. The Iranian incursion on Iraqi soil made no sense militarily or otherwise. The war was over in any real way; Iran had been defeated. It had to withdraw after a few days,
As for Iraq’s present status, it is nonsense to speak of it as if it were an independent country. The occupation destroyed the state. Humpty-Dumpty having been pushed off the wall, all the king’s horse and all the king’s men could only put together a colonial administrative authority. It has never governed and it never will.
The day will come when the people of Iraq will finally destroy the occupation and all its works. The Germans have owned up to the crimes of the Nazis. We have not even come close to understanding the crimes of US imperialism in Iraq, let alone repudiating them. How long will that take, and what retribution awaits so profound a moral failure?
Oops posted as anonymous, re the role of Iran. Sorry. Insdvertent.
Iran Occupied Iraq? With, or without the US?
Iran Occupied Iraq?
Iran Occupied Iraq?
Am I missing something here?
Returning to Brooklyn to relearn English!!!
At first with the U.S. Now, it’s unclear.
Yes, Peter J. Antonsen, you are missing something: Iran is in occupation of Iraq. There’s some split of the money with the U.S. robbers, but as so often is the case with Iraq, it is difficult to find detailed information about it.
You need not re-learn English. Just set aside everything you ever heard about Iraq. Stop listening especially to the so-called “left,” most of whose line is badly polluted by unthinking acceptance of what they hear from the United States Ministry of Truth.
See the link above to informationclearinghouse. The article is by he estimable Ramzy Baroud. He is among the few who actually know something about Iraq.
See also:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-21/who-really-controls-iraq-inside-irans-powerful-proxy-armies?fb_action_ids=1050146635029588&fb_action_types=og.likes
Your link shows no link of a National (Iranian) invasion of another nation (Iraq). Additionally, no imperialist motivation is apparent (economic, oil grab etc.).
See attempt to possibly strengthen Western front (from whence they were invaded by USA & puppet Iraq 25 yrs ago). And alliance with Russia and others to oppose imperialist powers.
***ISIS is indeed Jewish/USA (to say “Israel” is missing the point, I prefer Jewish, or Jewish Oligarch, Rothschild, et. al). Saudi Arabia is nation under control of Rothschilds & other Jewish Oligarchs. They do as bidden as completely as Europe and Canada, & Mexico, Ukraine. Little concentration/comment directed to the Terrorists whose job is to depopulate the Fertile Crescent, and open it and its Rivers (water supplies) and Oil supplies, for the Greater Israel, [from the Euphrates to the Suez Canal (for Now), and to Yemen] (the Saudis are just a branch of “Century-21 Realtors” holding the peninsula for its Chosen owners.
An Iranian invasion of Iraq would imply – necessitate – a land grab (to be an invasion).
Call me old fashioned; just don’t call me early!
Ignore people who have real knowledge! Don’t investigate, make things up off the top of your head! “My mind is made up, don’t confuse me with facts” “What I wish were true is objectively true.” And so on.
The United States gets into more wars than any other country. World peace hangs by a thread. Yet there is very little popular mobilization for peace. Why?
Because the above method of “thinking” is so widespread.
Something I have learned is that things are never perfect, the best is often just that things are moving in the right direction, and this document seems like a very big step in the right direction, just a month ago USA and its client were like : “Assad needs to step down, nothing more needs to be said.” Now they have agreed Assad will remain in power.
The Russian influence on the war must have lead to to realize that Assad will no longer fall, if anything, given time he is likely to expand. So it is best to end the war now.
Thought the deal seems a bit one-sided, it seems to give Assad/Russia/Iran everything they want. Since the did not mention Assad needing to step down, that means he will win the elections and remain president.. It might just be a trick to get a ceasefire so the american terrorists will have a chance to reinforce and resupply.. Or it might be that USA and its islamofascist allies sees the war is over and wants to rescue as many of their terrorists assets as possible, perhaps transfer them to Yemen.
“It might just be a trick to get a ceasefire”
“Da’esh, and other terrorist groups, as designated by the U.N. Security Council, and further, as agreed by the participants, must be defeated.”
No cease fire. both ISIS and al Nusra are UNSC listed terrorist and I would guess other groups in Syria are also on the al Qaeda list. Also according to the UNSC AQ resolution any groups fighting with the al Qaeda list terrorist would also be fair game.
Assad was never is doubt of falling, Once the initial blitzkrieg had failed, Assad became stronger than ever. After watching Libya and Iraq, no one wanted to go that way and people recognized early on what was happening. The SAA is 150,000 strong and there is another 150,000 militia that looks after populated centers. With only 50,000 rebels, 40,000 of them foreign terrorists, wont be able to defeat a force defending their homes no matter what. They can cause mayhem is all. hence why everyone wants the US to invade and occupy Syria. But I don’t think this would be the Iraq cake walk for the US. After almost 5 years, there are many battle hardened veterans who have learned the hard way how to survive. The SAA is far stronger than the depilated Iraqi army after more than a decade of sanctions, Libya never had an army to speak off, more like a police force and a mercenary army of Africans who were more like the refugees given a job so they are not living on government handouts. I think the result no matter who is on paper ruling Syria would be like the e.ukranians.. It would be a war zone no matter what.
There is a great article by Patrick Cockburn high lighting why a larger force can not easily defeat the terrorists.. The school of hard knocks only gives you one chance to learn.. You are dead other wise.. Army war tactics do not work on terrorists. But once you learn, you are not an army, you are also just another guerilla force using guerilla tactics.. There is no winning in such a game, only survival..
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n21/patrick-cockburn/too-weak-too-strong
Salam Liz,
Hezbollah would have never entered the fight 2 years ago, unless they were given guarantees that Assad will stay.
The Omani Foreign Minister has just visited Assad in Syria.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
David H,
At ICH you have quoted an article by Dr. Ramzy Baroud, who is a sectarian. And, then you confuse us with Baath and Saddam Hussein and to quote you:
“What is this stuff about Saddam oppressed the Shiites? I never saw a thing to substantiate it……… Saddam, a man for whom I have great respect, had to fight a few battles but that was the outcome. …”
But some background first. I am a Shia and Sistani is the highest Shia Marja alive today, with the tittle of Grand Ayatollah. I do the Taqlid (imitation) of Sistani, therefore he is my pope and no one else. My wife might do the Taqlid of another Marja and he will be her pope. We Shia choose our own pope. Whereas in Sunni Islam any Sunni Religious Scholar is a pope, thus many popes. Pope is not a good word, but it gives the idea.
The reason I brought Sistani is to discuss about his mentor and teacher Khoei, so to set the stage.
Now let us put 2 + 2 together:
01. The Shah on Iran resigned on 11 February, 1979. Iran was the most powerful country then in the Middle East with Nuclear Power Plants.
02. Saddam came to power on 16 July, 1979 as President.
03. Khomeini on 3 December, 1979 became the 1st Supreme Leader of Iran.
04. Saddam attacked Iraq on September 22, 1980, which lasted until August 20, 1988 to bleed Iran of it’s power.
05. In this same period Saddam denied religious freedom to the Shia of Iraq and the Shia of the World. As both 4 Shia Imams are buried in Iraq. The first Imam Ali (as) and his son the third Imam Hussain (as) against whom the Muslims committed a genocide.
06. Saddam attacked Iran with the aid of some of the Gulf countries.
07. He also used Mustard Gas against the Iranian.
08. Saddam invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990.
09. The first Gulf war started on 2 August,1990 until 28 February 1991.
10. The 100-hour ground offensive, and Bush Senior then stopped it.
11. General Schwarzkopf asked for few more hours, he was refused by then Senior Bush. He was removed by Bush for being a Military man and interfering in Politics.
12. Then Bush assured Shia, if they want religious freedom, they should rise against Saddam and he will provide the Air Support.
13. Of course Bush lied. Saddam then went after moving the Shia, especially their Marjas and their families.
14. Marjas like Khoei, Sadr, Sadr ….. and most of the Shia. Link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chidOTNAJCE
And, to quote you again:
“What is this stuff about Saddam oppressed the Shiites? I never saw a thing to substantiate it……… Saddam, a man for whom I have great respect, had to fight a few battles but that was the outcome. …”
Mohamed.
P.S. And, the people complain on this blog, that I don’t substantiate my claims. Where as I don’t like repetition, I take the people on this blog educated and that they remember well.
I am sorry Mohamed, but your comments do not make sense.
” Saddam attacked Iraq on September 22, 1980,”?
“In this same period Saddam denied religious freedom to the Shia of Iraq and the Shia of the World.”
How did he do this? Are you claiming that placing travel restrictions (During a War!) is denying religious freedom?
The first Gulf War was created through American deception and lies. The American companies were stealing Iraqi Oil by way of horizontal drilling and after 3 years of begging the Arab council, nothing was done. America gave Saddam the OK to attack Kuwait. (mainly because Kuwait was becoming too independent and thinking of selling their oil directly instead of via American companies.)
“Then Bush assured Shia, if they want religious freedom, they should rise against Saddam and he will provide the Air Support.” So the Shia (Marjas) started a civil uprising against Saddam, and it is then Saddam’s fault that they were crushed?
David,
Saddam was nothing but a stooge of The Empire. In the end they got rid of him.
Mohamed.
Mohamed – the “stooge of empire” remark shows the usual level of knowledge of Iraqi history – abysmal. Someting is not understood. OK, let’s not bother to study history to find out, let’s make something up!
A t first the United States did not want a military victory on either side. That would estalish a regionally dominant local power. Iraq agreed with the United States in 1983 to seek a negotiated settlement. Khomeini did not want peace. He wanted victory. Iran launched the first of its five invasions of Iraq. In keeping with the strategy of negotiated settlement, Iraq sought only to contain and expel the invaders.
The Iran-Contra affair of 1986 was a betrayal of Iraq’s trust. When it was expostd Iraq changed to a strategy of military victory. In a seriesof battles from Feb. to May of 1987 Iraq crushed Iran’s fifth and last invasion of its territory. Iranian losses were 50,000 or more fatalities. In 1988 no more volunteers came to answer the call for the annual invasion of Iraq. Khomeini was at last forced to accept peace.
The U.S. duplicity in the Iran-Contra affair brought about the very thing it wanted to avoid: a locally dominant power, Iraq. That is why the Kuwait crisis was contrived in 1990, and the lauch of the long, long war against Iraq.
The “stooge of empire” notion could not be further from the truth.
Sounds perfect, it means all rebels that does not want to be labled terrorists must agree to an election which Assad of course wil win, so he will remain in power and the internationally community will then help him defeat the american terrorists.
Item 7 is the one that sets it all up to fail.
A ‘new’ constitution?
and ‘U.N’ ‘supervision’ …
I don’t think that ruins it, Syria already changed it constitution last election to make it more democratic. Likely they will shorten the presidential terms and change the constitution to limit the number of terms the same guy can be president, so once Assad wins this time, he will likely not be able to stand again next time. They will say “Max 2 terms” or something like this, and they will count this term.
UN supervision is good, it means USA can’t say the elections doesn’t count, it means they “rebels” can’t say its unfair, as they could and would if there was no supervision. Since Assad has democratic backing, the more international supervision the better. He will win with 70%+ of the votes guaranteed.
If Syrians allow the UN to devise a new constitution and supervise “elections”, the Syrians may as well have lost the sovereignty they’ve been fighting so hard to keep but through a pen instead of a sword. Allowing those terms means they become part of the New World Order globalist central banker controlled system, which was the point of the effort to remove Assad in the first place.
Nah, UN includes Iran, China, Russia.
JC understands – with clause 7 comes substantial US control over the situation through proxies in the UN structure – hence control.
In other words, if you can’t beat them, control them through political or financial means.
The clarity of language, the heavy insistence on Russian enunciated goals and conditions, and the international assurance locking in secular, Syrian sovereignty and Syrian choice is classic Putin via Lavrov imprimatur.
The hard part of the beginning march toward peace is encapsulated in this document.
The refinements are yet to be seen or heard.
The war must be won. It may become the biggest war since Vietnam. Look at little Yemen. With not much at stake geopolitically or economically, a ferocious war killing massive numbers of innocents and combatants. Syria-Iraq has the potential to be prolonged by the US-Saudi coalition to bleed the two nations and its sponsors, Russia and Iran.
Peace comes last when one side is expended. That’s the tradition.
We are due a long war if Russia cannot militarily lead its coalition to a devastatingly rapid destruction of ISIS and its allies.
There is no legally recognized “war” to be “won.”
Hostilities must come to an end; seems like a good start on paper.
Maybe the ONU will be permitted to convene and administer as per their charter.
Stop the Illegal and Immoral Wars!
Syria invited in the Russian Federation to bomb the terrorists. That sort of indicates war, doesn’t it?
Indeed it does.
And the Iraq government has invited RF to bomb the routes between the Syrian and Iraq conflict zones used by ISIS. More war, me thinks.
Do you think you need to go to some high potentate to get a writ to make war?
Wake up.
War against states that wage war against others is highly moral. And highly legal.
Wake up.
Exactly. The very wording is Putin languag
Exactly. The very words from Putin’s mouth. There will be much knashing of hegemon teeth. But Obama tells them, you don’t know that Putin:
“Have you noticed that every one of these candidates says, ‘Obama’s weak. Putin’s kicking sand in his face. When I talk to Putin, he’s going to straighten out’? And then it turns out they can’t handle a bunch of CNBC moderators at the debate. Let me tell you, if you can’t handle those guys, then I don’t think that the Chinese and the Russians will be too worried about you.” http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151104/1029565396/putin-obama-republican-primary-cnbc-moderators.html
The reason we have the current ongoing nightmare in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc. can be summed up by the following report that appeared today in Sputnik :
“The Pentagon spent $43 million in US taxpayer money to construct a natural gas station in Afghanistan that should have cost no more than $500,000, a government watchdog said in a new report released Monday”.
In other words corruption on a massive and unprecedented scale, wholesale looting of taxpayers money while 50 million Americans are currently on food stamps and tent cities from the dispossessed keep on growing. No money to fix their crumbling infrastructure or provide adequate and affordable health care for their own citizens while the mafia that runs its government sucks the people dry. But the sheeple are to brainwashed and stupid to see the massive fraud that is being perpetrated against them.
The entire article can be read below :
http://sputniknews.com/us/20151102/1029500905/pentagon-afghanistan-natural-gas-station.html
The Outlaw Empire’s already in violation of #1–Territorial Integrity–through its illegal airstrikes and threatened invasion of ground troops, not to mention its continuing support for terrorists attempting to destroy that integrity and Syria’s secularism. The same goes for Outlaw Empire proxies Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and NATO.
Like Minsk2, this is well thought out and the belligerent signatories have just hung themselves.
I think you just identified the heart of the matter. Another brilliant move by Putin/Lavrov & Co. Seems to be a set-up for eventual checkmate.
This “agreement” is certainly less than perfect. Quite the contrary: “… followed by a new constitution [!!!] and elections. These elections must be administered under U.N. supervision …”. Indeed, was there any actual *purpose* for these “Talks”? “L’talks pour l’talks”?… Obviously, the only real solution to the present crisis in Syria is a military one, not political.
The US has zero intention to respect the Vienna agreement of course..
Towards a reversal of the situation in the Near East.
The US project continues, despite the agreement with Russia….
As for Turkey, whatever the result of the general elections of the 1st November, and especially in the case of a victory for the AKP – the Justice and Development Party [8], the civil war will probably continue and spread [9] until the country is split in two, followed by the fusion of Turkish Kurdistan, Iraqi Kurdistan and a Syrian Arab territory occupied by the Syrian Kurds and the United States. Already, the YPG (People’s Protection Units) and the United States are working together to conquer an Arab territory in Northern Syria. The YPG, who, until last month, was receiving its weapons and pay from Damascus, has now turned against the Syrian Arab Republic. Its militia are invading the conquered villages, expelling teachers, and enforcing the ’Kurdisation’ of schools. Kurdish, which had previously been spoken and taught in schools, has now become the unique and obligatory language. The militia of the Syrian Arab Republic, particularly the Assyrians, are now reduced to the weaponised defence of their schools against their Kurdish compatriots [10].
http://www.voltairenet.org/article189146.html
Something is not right
Would you care to extend your comment for all to understand your point? Thank you.
Not for one moment do I think the US and stooges meant a word of that.It seems to reflex a great deal of Russia’s and Iran’s input (as well as some from the EU).But there are some interesting points in it.
1.”Syria’s unity, independence, territorial integrity, and secular character are fundamental.”
As we know,the empire and stooges want to split Syria,and to the stooges the secular character of Syria is heresy.So how those two points are going to be assured is going to be interesting.
2.”State institutions will remain intact.”
If they can be controlled by the Islamist’s they would accept that.But if not,no way will they accept that.
3.”The rights of all Syrians, regardless of ethnicity or religious denomination, must be protected.”
That leaves out every group but Assad’s people agreeing to that.Some of the “moderates” were busy the other day putting Alawites in cages as human shields.So “protection” is problematic.
4.”It is imperative to accelerate all diplomatic efforts to end the war.”
They will all “pretend” to work on that one.
5.”Humanitarian access will be ensured throughout the territory of Syria, and the participants will increase support for internally displaced persons, refugees, and their host countries.”
This was put in for the EU.To try and keep refugee’s from leaving.But how to get in, and “who” is stupid enough to go into ISIS territory to give out aid.
6.”Da’esh, and other terrorist groups, as designated by the U.N. Security Council, and further, as agreed by the participants, must be defeated.”
That is Russia’s and Iran’s input.
7.”Pursuant to the 2012 Geneva Communique and U.N. Security Council Resolution 2118, the participants invited the U.N. to convene representatives of the Government of Syria and the Syrian opposition for a political process leading to credible, inclusive, non-sectarian governance, followed by a new constitution and elections. These elections must be administered under U.N. supervision to the satisfaction of the governance and to the highest international standards of transparency and accountability, free and fair, with all Syrians, including the diaspora, eligible to participate.”
Lot’s of luck on getting those groups to agree on that.Even on the meaning of the different requirements will lead to trouble.
8.”This political process will be Syrian led and Syrian owned, and the Syrian people will decide the future of Syria.”
More Russian and Iranian input.You can bet the others bit their tongues on that one.And are, as I type, trying to figure a way around it.
9.”The participants together with the United Nations will explore modalities for, and implementation of, a nationwide ceasefire to be initiated on a date certain and in parallel with this renewed political process.”
This one is totally crazy (at present).They clearly say in number 6 they are going to fight and defeat Daesh.Now in number 9 they want a nationwide ceasefire.As if Daesh is going to agree,no way.
I wonder how (a) they can have elections in areas under control of ISIS, (b) free and fair elections including syrian “diaspora” – lots of opportunity for fraud there. I suspect esp point (b) (item 7) must have been pushed by Exceptionalistan.
Point 7 is totally maddening! Who the hell are these people to tell Syria to engage in a “political process leading to credible, inclusive, non-sectarian governance, followed by a new constitution and elections.” And super-duper democratic countries such as Qatar and Saudi Arabia tell you this with a straight face, same straight face Kerry had when he said that for the first time “all parties” were included in the diplomatic talks. Errrr….. I don’t see Syria on the list, you collosal asshat!
But back to the wording… does this mean that from now on a bunch of countries can get together and dictate a sovereign nation how they must run themselves? Can this hypothetical group tell the US to write a new constitution? How about, when they hold elections and the Republicans lose, this same group can come in and demand the winning Democrats to create an all inclusive coalition with the Republicans, because you know… you don’t want them to feel excluded. Can we also include all the millions of unrepresented Americans who don’t vote because they feel disenfranchised by the two big parties? Can they do this in other countries too? Like say, the UK, should this group demand the Tories to include UKIP in their government since they got 4 million plus votes, but no representation apart from 1 lousy MP?
Isn’t point 7 encouraging people all over the world to take up arms, break as much havoc as possible, in order to bring in the ‘savior countries’ (including the UN apparently) to push for political change?
Seriously, the mind boggles. Whichever way you slice it, Point 7 is completely and totally mad, not to mention completely out of order since they have no right whatsoever to suggest, never mind demand, such things on the first place.
-TL2Q
The elected government of Syria was excluded from these talks. This means Assad has been removed.
The Vienna talks seem to be about blocking the external actors that are trying to remove Assad.
Russia and Iran seemed to have achieved this. This is geo-politics I guess, rather than domestic politics.
Not really. In fact Russia and Iran and perhaps to some extent even Egypt will be standing in the place of Dr Assad. Bear in mind that they have intervened in the war in order to support and ensure the survival of his government. With respect to Egypt under Sisi, it has no love of Islamic terrorists.
It is the clear intention of Russia and Iran to see Assad s government continue in office as long as he can count on the support of the majority of Syrians.
Now for some comments on the “Joint Statement of the Final Declaration:”
Point #1 of the Declaration is the Key
“1. Syria’s unity, independence, territorial integrity, and secular character are fundamental.”
This point can only be interpreted as meaning that ALL of Syria’s Territory is Integral to its Unity and Independence.
There is absolutely no other way to slice this First, Key, and Most Important part agreed upon at the Syrian Talks in Vienna – Agreement (and that is why it is listed First -#1-).
*I will repeat for emphasis; Every square inch of Syria’s sacred territory is Integral and must be returned to the administration of the Syrian “Secular” “State.” It is also here that the Agreement contains some ambivalences (weaknesses in wordings), and some omissions (listed numerically below).
1. There is no mention of the occupied “Golan Heights” (stolen from Syria by the Zionist Land Thieves). That territory must be returned, in its entirety, with full indemnification, to the Syrian people, and with criminal penalties to the thieves.
2. Indeed, there is no mention of: The Zionist Oligarchs, the American Zionist puppets, and the British, French, and Turkish, who are not listed, along with the “Da’esh” and “other terrorist groups, as designated by the U.N. Security Council, and further, as agreed by the participants,” as being among the proscribed terrorist groups who must be defeated.
3. The “diaspora” begs more comment; “with all Syrians, including the diaspora” brings memories of the tragedies of World War II. In 2015, the millions of humans displaced by Zionist American imperialist barbarity will need years of peace to rebuild a place to call Home. The hard fact is that the return of the Syrian, or the Iraqi, or the Palestinian Arabs, is not on the Zionist Land Thieves’ (or their American puppets’), agenda.
4. War Crimes Tribunals (to be held at the Hague -get the humor?-) where real terrorists might be tried for Crimes Committed Against the Syrian People, those include Israel’s 2nd congress (the one in Washington DC), and Hollywood Obomber (for impersonating an actor impersonating an elected president- while covering up many horrible crimes), place your war criminal here……….
In conclusion:
This Agreement is not half bad. Thanks to the Saker for placing it for our perusal as soon as it was available.
It, is a tribute, a small victory, imperfect, but of definite value, won by the valiant heroes of the Russian, Syrian, and Palestinian and Iranian Nations, who have shed so much blood, against all odds, holding back the Nazi Zionist American NATO Imperialist Terrorist Tide. awith or without this agreement, as at Minsk, the war will continue, and will not end soon, anymore than it will in a Serbia in pieces, or a Russia with its mother city (Kiev), under Nazi rule.
For the Democratic Republics!
IMAGINE
I learn much from reading the comments on this forum.
I failed to see the forest for the trees.
Yes: The elected Assad Government of Syria should have been represented at this conference in Vienna. The fact of the omission of Syria (from a conference about Syria) – alone, substantially queers the conference and all its resolutions and subsequent results).
Imagine- holding a conference to determine the fate of the United States, and not allowing a representative of the United States to attend: (hmm! actually not a bad idea – but I digress).
This is a great website. This open forum is where we learn, freely speak our piece, until we are suppressed.
IMAGINE
Certainly, let me explain. I’ll refer to the following from this article: “China, Egypt, the EU, France, Germany, Iran, Iraq, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, the United Nations, and the United States [“the participants”] came together to discuss the grave situation in Syria and how to bring about an end to the violence as soon as possible.”
Why wasn’t Syria at the table? Especially if you look at the first point: “Syria’s unity, independence, territorial integrity, and secular character are fundamental.” Syria’s independence? And then point 8. Really? Everybody sits at the table except Syria and all those points are an agreement for what must be done in Syria, without Syria being there? But Saudi Arabia is there, Turkey, Jordan, Qatar? It’s more like a meeting between Russia, China and Iran telling all the parties responsible for this that it ends today end of story.
So I feel something is not right for those parties to agree so quickly. It must be part of their plan to recoup, I think Russia’s bombing campaign has hurt them so much they are forced to accept this. However, knowing these throat slitting mercenary war machine, they will certainly come back in like a wolf in sheep’s clothing trying to take over Syria with a different strategy, 5 to 10 years from now no matter when but they will come back. Putin needs to end it now, the LEADERS responsible for this the men in power the ones with the MONEY and POWER needs to be hanged and executed and give them a death like a wahabi terrorist should die in battle with absolute no mercy.
Then only will this end, kill those leaders of those countries that made those decisions. That’s the only way, otherwise 10 to 30 years from now these maniacs will regroup and come back history has shown us. After all, that’s what they were going to do with Assad, just like Sadam and Ghadaffi, ain’t it? Now they are exposed and they need to perish like they were planning the death of a good man and millions of innocent people they already killed in the middle east. Just my opinion. Would like to hear some input maybe I’m going mad I don’t know but this is bad.
Most of Europe seems to be involved in this. As the US and its Arab despots will continue to try and destroy Syria, this agreement may also have the effect of further pulling Europe away from the US and closer to Russia.
How interesting! All the culprits behind the 4-year-old bloodshed in Syria and the ones who have been supporting Assad to stop the insurgency, were there with the exception of the victims – Syrians.
On October 26, former US president Jimmy Carter penned an Op-Ed for The Jew York Times, entitled, A Plan to end the Syrian Crisis, in which he claimed that the US, Russia and United Nations cannot bring an end to the four-year-old bloodshed in Syria without the active participation of the Islamic Republic at the negotiations going on among the world powers and the supporters (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, UAE, France, and UK) of anti-government terrorists.
Jimmy Carter claims that he had talked to Bashar al-Assad for several hours when latter was studying in London. He said that Bashar’s father Hafiz Assad, who came into power via a military coup, was supported by people belonging to different faiths, Sunnis, Shias, Christians, Druze and even Jews.
“The involvement of Russia and Iran is essential. Assad’s only concession in four years of war was giving up chemical weapons, and he did so only under pressure from Russia and Iran. Similarly, he will not end the war by accepting concessions imposed by the West but is likely to do so if urged by his allies,” Carter said.
Russia excels in diplomacy, strategic thinking and the art of war.
The strength of the US are fraudulent money-printing, legal trickery, full-spectrum disinformation, around the clock false flag operations, the running of uncountable mercenary armies and and a plethora of other mafia techniques.
The Syria Talks in Vienna are Russia’s diplomatic frontal assault on the illegal dealings and interfering in Syria by the US and its vassals – the EU, France, Germany, Italy, Jordan, Qatar, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom (where is Israel?).
Team Putin knew that even the most basic ‘mutual understanding’ would put the US and its partners-in-crime in a most uncomfortable double-bind – not signing the 9-Point statement would expose them as frauds, signing it puts them in very, very uncomfortable position.
The US administration doesn’t have the will nor the power to do as it says, while the CIA-Mossad-Takfiri Mafia network has to hide in even darker shadows.
Psychic tension has risen palpably. Further escalations pre-programmed.
The cease-fire (point #9) is what Kerry was mainly pushing for. The US plan is to establish a “safe zone” for ISIS and Nusra operatives, along with a cease-fire, to give them time to regroup.
“These elections must be administered under U.N. supervision to the satisfaction of the governance and to the highest international standards of transparency and accountability, free and fair, with all Syrians, including the diaspora, eligible to participate.”
The “including the diaspora” are the words that concern me. What if all the refugees are given the ultimatum – If you want to stay in our country you better vote Assad out.
I wonder if the US put that specific language in there thinking they will be able to influence these people to vote the way they want them to?
It’s great – and surprising – that an assembly of such an importance to end with a full set of solutions from the first time, especially that the participants aren’t that much like-minded.
But, of course, this is just garbage. These points right here are nothing but a waist of time, so that the puppet-masters can do their shows in the background, where nothing is really seen, but just vague. I will not discuss the reason behind my thinking, since its already explicit – Russia’s supposedly “fighting” ISIS and other terrorists, and so is America, and that is why we have only reached low-rate progress. It’s an open book. They are NOT “fighting” anybody here, no terrorists, no ISIS; just batteling eachother via the Syrian population whom they treat as pests and play like puppets in reality. To not be extreme, yes they have progressed, but only so much compared to what they can actually do. If these two world powers want, they can annihialate the whole world in a day if they want to.
Each of these participating countries has a new dawn to introduce, and it’s no good news. I’m just repeating what so many have already said, but this can’t “not” be said. There is so much to say about this topic, I don’t even know where to start. Too much has been written already for me to have to ameliorate my point.
All there is to say is that we, in the end, are all characters in a play directed by the most cunning directors. Everything said, from this list of resolutions to any kind of utopian speech, is pure lie. People are dying everyday as martyrs to a dirty game, thinking its for a better tomorrow. Instead, it’s just wasted blood-shed.
Syria like Iraq forceful created after WW! without respect for culture and Iraq build again after Saddam as continuity of past arrangement, the reason is clear Al Saudi w and if Syria force in same way the corruption and war will go on like what is going on in Iraq. As a Kurd age 60 years i see alot of hypocrite of Western and Eastern police in this part of a World and for that reason I say if the Western leaders on Top of them US and UK and East Russian and Chain like to see the end of Daish the have to put the question of human and culture as priority and let the each region as was historically have been divide culture shape it again , then the region will find the peace humanist and culture other wise the humanist of WW1 will go on.