Let’s make one thing absolutely damn clear: when a ship is attacked in open international waters they have the right to defend themselves with whatever means they have. So even if we fully accept the Israeli version that their commandos were attacked with metal bars, chairs and even handguns taken from the commandos, this was absolutely legal. In fact, the people aboard these ships had the right to use assault rifles, mortars, heavy machine guns and even anti-air missiles. We know that they had none of these, as the ships were searched by the Turkish customs authorities, and the ships were even X-rayed. But even if the crew and passengers of the Mavi Marmara had killed every single attacker who attempted to board their ship they would have been in their right.
Israel has no jurisdiction on the high seas whatsoever and its propaganda about having the right to enforce the blockade even in international waters is utter nonsense. The illegitimate use of force to seize a ship and kidnap is occupants is simply an act of international piracy. Piracy can, and should, be resisted with all means necessary.
I don’t know how to play the legal aspects of this as a good lawyer can make dodo smell like roses. Pro Zionist websites are aflutter about how maritime law permits Israel to enforce an announced blockade. I have no idea what the actual maritime laws are. If you have a good source about that let us know.
I do know that Gaza is a concentration camp. If keeping a concentration camp is “legal,” then screw the law.
And did people aboard truly confronted highly trained (allegedly) commandos armed with automatic weapons, with knives and crow bars?
If so I only wish I had just 1% of their courage.
The Israeli accounts that claim the commandos were armed with paint guns don’t make sense for another reason. This account posits that the IDF opened fire with their uzi machine pistols. The uzi fires a 9mm handgun round; an assault rifle usually fires a high-powered .223 round. You can hear the shots being fired in one of the al-Jazeera videos.
Do those sound like 9mm handgun rounds? I’m no expert but I think those were high powered rifle rounds being fired.
Here is what Stratfor says of the raid. They also think the IDF is probably lying:
June 1, 2010 | 0002 GMT
Reports are spreading in the Israeli media that the Israeli Shayetet 13 commandos who boarded the MV Mavi Marmara the night of May 30 were armed primarily with paintball guns, and were only carrying live ammunition in their sidearms. The implication is that the Israelis seriously underestimated the resistance they would encounter in boarding the ship.
There are two key issues here. First, STRATFOR is unaware of paintballs having made the transition from training rounds (which they are indeed used for extensively) to operationally useful non-lethal technology — such as rubber bullets. It is the substance of the non-lethal round and the force which propels it that determines whether it will be able to put down an assailant, and paintballs are far less incapacitating than other readily available projectiles. While paintballs may in fact have been used, it would be unusual for Israel to go into such a high-profile and densely packed situation (there were more than 600 activists aboard the Marmara) with an unproven or only lightly proven technology, especially for a country with such extensive experience with exactly this sort of crowd control.
But more important than whether there is any veracity to this claim is what it suggests. The Israelis, who deal regularly with not only pro-Palestinian activists but Palestinians and hard-line Jewish settlers, are well aware of both the challenges of hostile civilian crowds and how an encounter will be manipulated for public consumption. By suggesting that a highly regarded Israeli special operations unit boarded a ship with some 600 activists prepared for this very eventuality armed with paintball guns and live ammunition only for semi-automatic pistols — yet somehow killed as many as 20 people and wounded many more (though casualty figures are also very much in dispute) — does not on its face seem likely.
It is possible these claims are essentially true, and the Israelis profoundly underestimated the resistance they would face. We find this hard to believe, given Israel’s extensive experience with this sort of group and their likely tactical situational awareness. It would be impossible for the Israelis not to know that on a ship full of loosely-associated activists from all over the world, there would be some individuals ready to violently oppose any Israeli soldiers boarding the vessel.
By claiming the Shayetet 13 commandos boarded the ship only intending to use paintball guns, and resorted to using their sidearms as a last resort after facing tough resistance from those on board, Israel can try to dispel the notion asserted by the pro-Palestinian media campaign that the raid was a vicious assault on unarmed civilians, undermining its propaganda value.
The situation was set into motion with the intention of causing far-ranging geopolitical consequences. The pro-Palestinian activists clearly set the bait for Israel to overreact, and Israel is believed to have done so judging by the response from media outlets, street demonstrators and politicians in Europe, Turkey and the Middle East.
But the last noteworthy point is that for all Israel’s experience with non-lethal action and managing violent civilian populations, this is not Shayetet 13’s core competency — they specialize in more aggressive and hostile boarding operations, so a civilian opposition would not necessarily be their area of expertise. A late attempt to rig some non-lethal capability onto one of the more lethally-oriented units in the Israel Defense Forces could well have contributed to some of the violence, though it is clear that whatever their armament, these commandos dropped into an extremely bad tactical situation.
@nationalist: I would not trust a recording of a gunshot to ascertain what was used. But I will say that assault rilfes are way too powerful to be used on a crowded deck or for short range engagements. God only knows where the bullets will end. No, using machine pistols like the Uzi is a better choice if you intend to use deadly force.
The question for me is:
a) either the Israelis were stupid enough to land on a crowded deck
or
b) they did clear the deck before landing (as they should have) and the fighting scenes we saw on the footage are taken later, once the passangers were enranged by the initial murders.
From what I understand, the Israelis did clear the deck for their frist soliders, but with deadly force (probably 9mm machine pistol fire) and that is both criminal and stupid. Its FOLLOWING that that the deck was stormed by the passengers while at the same time more troops were sent down.
That is my best guess so far, but since we have so little info, this is only a guess, no more.
But if the Israelis opened fire with assault rifles, they are truly the dumbest motherf**kers out there…
Suggesting that a highly regarded Israeli special operations unit boarded a ship with some 600 activists prepared for this very eventuality armed with paintball guns and live ammunition only for semi-automatic pistols — yet somehow killed as many as 20 people and wounded many more (though casualty figures are also very much in dispute) — does not on its face seem likely.
Nonsense. A specially trained commando can kill many many more civilians in less than 10min if it decides to. I am not saying that this is what happened, only that the sentence above is nonsense.
I need to run now. Be back later tonight.
Two of the people killed on Mavi Marmara were Kurdish, one from Siirt (Sêrt) and the other from Bingol (Çewlik) who was the director of a humanitarian organization. Kurds set up tents in two cities to accept people for visiting the families and giving their condolences.
Meanwhile, Turkish prime minister announced that the problem with Israel will not impact delivery of the four remaining Herons Turkey has purchased.
Zerkes
http://alethonews.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/the-legal-position-on-the-israeli-attack/