It is interesting to observe how Muslims display anger and even violence when westerners caricature their prophet…and yet remain silent when their own Islamic heritage is being destroyed by the Saudis !!!!
Perhaps the objective of the Saudis is to erase their religious history and burden…and by doing so, they can align themselves to their true agenda which now appears to emulate western and Israel ideology and culture.
erasing history across cultures is kind of a tradition in itself
Going by Anatoly Fomenko’s History: Fiction or Science series, or James Loewen’s “Lies Across America” about historic and tourism sites Loewen wrote Lies My Teacher Told me.
Greece and Athens destroyed a lot of buildings from the Ottoman empire in the late 19th and early 20th century because they wanted to better sell the ancient Greek angle. For tourism.
“Greece and Athens destroyed a lot of buildings from the Ottoman empire in the late 19th and early 20th century because they wanted to better sell the ancient Greek angle. For tourism.”
Some people have even suggested that the Greeks didn’t want to be reminded of the five hundred years of oppression, impalings and torment under the Ottoman invader’s rule.
Of having their daughters forcibly taken away to fill Ottoman harems.
Their sons abducted to fill the ranks of the Janissaries.
Crazy people those Greeks . .
You’re both off the mark. There was a deliberate campaign by the powers that be to emphasise the classical past. German king Otto’s advisors played a significant role in, for example, closing down monasteries and other ‘backward’ practices to make the new state more European. Geopolitics aside, the mythology of the west holds that western civilisation began in Greece and moved to the west while the ignorant ‘Greeks’ went oriental and backward, and the reality that instead, Greece had evolved into a strong and wealthy state; far, far wealthier that the west – economically, spiritually, and culturally – contradicts that.
I come from a country which was under Ottoman ruel for 300 years and 1 day, and “Devshirme” aka “Blood tax” aka forcible taking of cristian boys to serve the Sultan is a common knowledge and a historical fact, I have never heard anyone mention kidnapping of girls. So I call bullshit on that.
Funnily enough, Ottomans didn’t destroy christian churches of any kind. There is a monastery near my old town that’s near 1000 years old, so it survived the Ottomans and it survives to this day. Make of it what you will.
Well I’mm pretty sure most people who identify as Muslim’s don’t know about the nefarious agenda of the AL Saud clan. Money and propaganda outlets can buy a lot of security. As far as I know scholars have been talking out against the destruction of Islamic heritage sites for decades, there’s books out there from 80 years ago, talking about this subject.
That’s similar to asking “why are more Americans not upset with the fact that their government is controlled by Zionists.” Most of them probably don’t know, and propaganda and influence quells the rest.
The Sordid Barbarians are not Moslems. They are Wahhabists, and Wahhabism is an anti-Moslem death cult which aims to extirpate Shia Islam and any Shi’ites who refuse to converted and many others besides. It was founded by a doenmeh, a crypto-Jewish follower of the failed Messiah Sabbatai Zevi, and entered an alliance with the Saud Mafia family, also headed by a doenmeh, which has persisted ever since. The alliance between Israel and Sordid Barbaria to attack Iran and Syria is proof positive of the ties that bind.
Hempher British military has an interesting tale. 1788 wahhabism was just a nationalist movement helped along with regard interpretation of the Quran to make the right mix of God and bloodlust the British needed to win oil. Saud royals are actally Iraq Jews. Ahmadiyya was the Asian version the British allowed to spread under colonial rule . Bit more peaceful better for trade as it was .
Funny how the birth of wahhabism is hidden to protect the bank of London and it’s financiers
Yeah the British have a horrible reputation amongst Muslim’s who actually use our brains. I read something in the Hempher guy a while back. I think he was the British spy who got in the ears of the deviant Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, the founding father of the anti-Muslim, and anti-human Wahhabi cult.
Milan Kundera tackled that issue by naming it, simply, “the kitsch”, but his description in many pasages of his Unbearable Lightness of Being … is a patient one that deserves a visit. If I got it well enough, the kitsch consists in imprisoning beauty in the absolute, as an ideal so high ithat we can avoid any compromision of it with ordinary life. In short, beauty has not to be insulted by beautiful faces and bodies; the same way courage, honesty, morality, etc, are all adventures that have been lived once and for all, just to be emulated to the letter, without question, not interpreted with slippery poetic sentences. So, no questioning art, but certified iconographies, fixed rituals and clean figurations whereas authentic art is precisely all about the coming together of the totality of our existence, the best and the worst as wel. There is a depth of beauty that is not acquiescence to gadgets.
According to Kundera, there are religious forms of kitsch (catholic, protestant, Jewish or otherwise), but also very secular and political ones (the cameo appearance of Jane Fonda in the novel is particularly sarcastic). Amongst the many kinds of kitsch he had idea of, he did not mention the muslim kitsch. but we are just witnessing one in SA and the fact that it takes a Vegas form is all the more interesting to see.
Perhaps the Saudis are not really Muslim after-all? Why would Muslims do this to their Holy Sites? Muslims would not do this to their Holy Sites. Sometimes the answer really is this simple.
Fact: one of the reasons the British Empire helped setup the Kingdom was to facilitate the creation of Israel.
Here’s what is really going on in Mecca, the understanding of which requires a bit of knowledge about Islamic history and recent archeological, botanical and geographic discoveries.
Islamic dogma holds that Muhammed began his religious teachings in Mecca, then moved to Medina when things got too hot for him in Mecca.
But – Mecca bears no similarity whatsoever to its descriptions in Islamic texts or histories. I won’t go into details, but the Mecca so described does not in fact describe Mecca, nor anything even remotely resembling Mecca, but perfectly describes Petra, 600 miles to the north of Mecca.
And in fact, all the mosques built in the first 200 years of Islam’s existence are oriented toward Petra. Mosques constructed after that were oriented toward Mecca. Mecca was the birthplace of the caliph of that time (whose name escapes me at the moment) and he wanted to elevate the importance of the city of his own birthplace, so he altered the history of Islam to place its origin in his own hometown.
This truth has seeped into the consciousness of the Saudi leadership, as has the awareness that no archeological examinations within Mecca have turned up the slightest bit of evidence to indicate that Mecca was the birthplace of Islam. So – massive building programs have been undertaken, to make such archeological studies impossible. The Sauds are deliberately paving over the truth – period.
Sorry man that sounds like a bunch of baloney. So you’re trying to tell me that Prophet Muhammad(saww) was actually born in Petra, delivered the message of Islam in Petra. Every single islamic source that we have knows every detail about the Prophet(saww), from the year of his birth, to the uncle that raised him when he became an orphan, the name of his tribe, the beginning of his Prophetic mission, everything was in Mecca. Now you come and tell us, No all of that is wrong he was actually born in Petra. Not a single Islamic source mentions anything that connects Petra to the Prophet Muhammad(saww) as far as i know. Then you tell us some caliph 200 years after the Prophet(saww) came and transferred everything that was once believed about petra over to the city of Mecca? hahaha you do realize that if this was true that means for 200 years the Muslim world was going on pilgrimage to Petra, and after that they all moved over to Mecca??? All because some Caliph decided to move everything over to Mecca, because he was born there? Did the rest of the Muslim world, of that time not realize whats going on? did they shut they’re mouths, and cover they’re eyes? Do you realize how monumental it would be to pull off a hoax like this?
Now when it comes to the Qibla. The first Qibla was the Al Aqsa in Jerusalem, after that it was changed to the Kaaba in Mecca, during the lifetime of the Prophet(saww). Through out the history of Islam, whenever a mosque was made it would have to face the Kaaba in Mecca, of course that doesn’t mean the people got it right every single time. It depends on their calculations, mathematical, astronomical, and who knows what other calculations. I’m sure some of them got it wrong, but the intention has always been to make the Kaaba the direction of the ritual prayer. Those things change over time, maybe one group thought they figured out an accurate way to locate the kaaba, and another group came at a future time, and found a more accurate method. Ways of doing things change over time, just a part of human history.
“Meanwhile, a Jordanian diplomatic source confirmed to Middle East Eye that the move is part of an agreement with Israel to end the “Palestinian identity and the right of return for refugees.”” https://www.rt.com/news/443455-saudi-ban-palestinians-mecca/
Those are not the actions of Arabs nevermind Muslims; they are more like the actions of Zionists.
It is interesting to observe how Muslims display anger and even violence when westerners caricature their prophet…and yet remain silent when their own Islamic heritage is being destroyed by the Saudis !!!!
Perhaps the objective of the Saudis is to erase their religious history and burden…and by doing so, they can align themselves to their true agenda which now appears to emulate western and Israel ideology and culture.
erasing history across cultures is kind of a tradition in itself
Going by Anatoly Fomenko’s History: Fiction or Science series, or James Loewen’s “Lies Across America” about historic and tourism sites Loewen wrote Lies My Teacher Told me.
Greece and Athens destroyed a lot of buildings from the Ottoman empire in the late 19th and early 20th century because they wanted to better sell the ancient Greek angle. For tourism.
“Greece and Athens destroyed a lot of buildings from the Ottoman empire in the late 19th and early 20th century because they wanted to better sell the ancient Greek angle. For tourism.”
Some people have even suggested that the Greeks didn’t want to be reminded of the five hundred years of oppression, impalings and torment under the Ottoman invader’s rule.
Of having their daughters forcibly taken away to fill Ottoman harems.
Their sons abducted to fill the ranks of the Janissaries.
Crazy people those Greeks . .
okay, destroying those buildings makes more sense now.
And even in Turkey the buildings most interesting to tourists, historians and archaeologists are probably the Ancient Greek, Roman and Byzantine ones.
You’re both off the mark. There was a deliberate campaign by the powers that be to emphasise the classical past. German king Otto’s advisors played a significant role in, for example, closing down monasteries and other ‘backward’ practices to make the new state more European. Geopolitics aside, the mythology of the west holds that western civilisation began in Greece and moved to the west while the ignorant ‘Greeks’ went oriental and backward, and the reality that instead, Greece had evolved into a strong and wealthy state; far, far wealthier that the west – economically, spiritually, and culturally – contradicts that.
Verami,
I come from a country which was under Ottoman ruel for 300 years and 1 day, and “Devshirme” aka “Blood tax” aka forcible taking of cristian boys to serve the Sultan is a common knowledge and a historical fact, I have never heard anyone mention kidnapping of girls. So I call bullshit on that.
Funnily enough, Ottomans didn’t destroy christian churches of any kind. There is a monastery near my old town that’s near 1000 years old, so it survived the Ottomans and it survives to this day. Make of it what you will.
@Aamer
Well I’mm pretty sure most people who identify as Muslim’s don’t know about the nefarious agenda of the AL Saud clan. Money and propaganda outlets can buy a lot of security. As far as I know scholars have been talking out against the destruction of Islamic heritage sites for decades, there’s books out there from 80 years ago, talking about this subject.
That’s similar to asking “why are more Americans not upset with the fact that their government is controlled by Zionists.” Most of them probably don’t know, and propaganda and influence quells the rest.
The Sordid Barbarians are not Moslems. They are Wahhabists, and Wahhabism is an anti-Moslem death cult which aims to extirpate Shia Islam and any Shi’ites who refuse to converted and many others besides. It was founded by a doenmeh, a crypto-Jewish follower of the failed Messiah Sabbatai Zevi, and entered an alliance with the Saud Mafia family, also headed by a doenmeh, which has persisted ever since. The alliance between Israel and Sordid Barbaria to attack Iran and Syria is proof positive of the ties that bind.
Hempher British military has an interesting tale. 1788 wahhabism was just a nationalist movement helped along with regard interpretation of the Quran to make the right mix of God and bloodlust the British needed to win oil. Saud royals are actally Iraq Jews. Ahmadiyya was the Asian version the British allowed to spread under colonial rule . Bit more peaceful better for trade as it was .
Funny how the birth of wahhabism is hidden to protect the bank of London and it’s financiers
@Paul Hewitt
Yeah the British have a horrible reputation amongst Muslim’s who actually use our brains. I read something in the Hempher guy a while back. I think he was the British spy who got in the ears of the deviant Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, the founding father of the anti-Muslim, and anti-human Wahhabi cult.
Milan Kundera tackled that issue by naming it, simply, “the kitsch”, but his description in many pasages of his Unbearable Lightness of Being … is a patient one that deserves a visit. If I got it well enough, the kitsch consists in imprisoning beauty in the absolute, as an ideal so high ithat we can avoid any compromision of it with ordinary life. In short, beauty has not to be insulted by beautiful faces and bodies; the same way courage, honesty, morality, etc, are all adventures that have been lived once and for all, just to be emulated to the letter, without question, not interpreted with slippery poetic sentences. So, no questioning art, but certified iconographies, fixed rituals and clean figurations whereas authentic art is precisely all about the coming together of the totality of our existence, the best and the worst as wel. There is a depth of beauty that is not acquiescence to gadgets.
According to Kundera, there are religious forms of kitsch (catholic, protestant, Jewish or otherwise), but also very secular and political ones (the cameo appearance of Jane Fonda in the novel is particularly sarcastic). Amongst the many kinds of kitsch he had idea of, he did not mention the muslim kitsch. but we are just witnessing one in SA and the fact that it takes a Vegas form is all the more interesting to see.
I wonder if the walt disney corporation earned any consulting bucks in the “redevelopment” of Mecca?
Notice the intolerance of other religions and cultures, such as Indian or Chinese. Monotheism our way, or death to the infidels.
People need to grow up. This is a multipolar world, where all cultures have their own problems and their own wisdom.
Perhaps the Saudis are not really Muslim after-all? Why would Muslims do this to their Holy Sites? Muslims would not do this to their Holy Sites. Sometimes the answer really is this simple.
Fact: one of the reasons the British Empire helped setup the Kingdom was to facilitate the creation of Israel.
Here’s what is really going on in Mecca, the understanding of which requires a bit of knowledge about Islamic history and recent archeological, botanical and geographic discoveries.
Islamic dogma holds that Muhammed began his religious teachings in Mecca, then moved to Medina when things got too hot for him in Mecca.
But – Mecca bears no similarity whatsoever to its descriptions in Islamic texts or histories. I won’t go into details, but the Mecca so described does not in fact describe Mecca, nor anything even remotely resembling Mecca, but perfectly describes Petra, 600 miles to the north of Mecca.
And in fact, all the mosques built in the first 200 years of Islam’s existence are oriented toward Petra. Mosques constructed after that were oriented toward Mecca. Mecca was the birthplace of the caliph of that time (whose name escapes me at the moment) and he wanted to elevate the importance of the city of his own birthplace, so he altered the history of Islam to place its origin in his own hometown.
This truth has seeped into the consciousness of the Saudi leadership, as has the awareness that no archeological examinations within Mecca have turned up the slightest bit of evidence to indicate that Mecca was the birthplace of Islam. So – massive building programs have been undertaken, to make such archeological studies impossible. The Sauds are deliberately paving over the truth – period.
Sorry man that sounds like a bunch of baloney. So you’re trying to tell me that Prophet Muhammad(saww) was actually born in Petra, delivered the message of Islam in Petra. Every single islamic source that we have knows every detail about the Prophet(saww), from the year of his birth, to the uncle that raised him when he became an orphan, the name of his tribe, the beginning of his Prophetic mission, everything was in Mecca. Now you come and tell us, No all of that is wrong he was actually born in Petra. Not a single Islamic source mentions anything that connects Petra to the Prophet Muhammad(saww) as far as i know. Then you tell us some caliph 200 years after the Prophet(saww) came and transferred everything that was once believed about petra over to the city of Mecca? hahaha you do realize that if this was true that means for 200 years the Muslim world was going on pilgrimage to Petra, and after that they all moved over to Mecca??? All because some Caliph decided to move everything over to Mecca, because he was born there? Did the rest of the Muslim world, of that time not realize whats going on? did they shut they’re mouths, and cover they’re eyes? Do you realize how monumental it would be to pull off a hoax like this?
Now when it comes to the Qibla. The first Qibla was the Al Aqsa in Jerusalem, after that it was changed to the Kaaba in Mecca, during the lifetime of the Prophet(saww). Through out the history of Islam, whenever a mosque was made it would have to face the Kaaba in Mecca, of course that doesn’t mean the people got it right every single time. It depends on their calculations, mathematical, astronomical, and who knows what other calculations. I’m sure some of them got it wrong, but the intention has always been to make the Kaaba the direction of the ritual prayer. Those things change over time, maybe one group thought they figured out an accurate way to locate the kaaba, and another group came at a future time, and found a more accurate method. Ways of doing things change over time, just a part of human history.
If i remember well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAq22E3E_Us this is the video about that subject
I do not believe that the Saudi elite is Muslim.
“Meanwhile, a Jordanian diplomatic source confirmed to Middle East Eye that the move is part of an agreement with Israel to end the “Palestinian identity and the right of return for refugees.””
https://www.rt.com/news/443455-saudi-ban-palestinians-mecca/
Those are not the actions of Arabs nevermind Muslims; they are more like the actions of Zionists.
Origins of the Kingdom?
https://mondoweiss.net/2016/01/zionism-kingdom-arabia/
Mecca as Las Vegas?
In the UK there actually always was/is a casino company called Mecca Bingo.
Must’ve been a prophecy.
This was all prophesised by the prophet(saww). The Hadith exlain it all in great detail.