Dear Serbian friends,
Since the crisis began in Serbia some of you have been enraged by the articles written for the Saker Blog by “Saker’s Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade”. Some of you have posted irate comments, often in direct violation of the moderation guidelines, while others sent me outraged emails.
And yet, each time I offered my angry correspondents the right of reply (I told them I would post any original article challenging Saker’s Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade’s position), but nobody agreed.
So let me ask you this: what is the point of expressing your outrage to me when you refuse to take the opportunity I give you to present your point of view?
Some of you have told me that me posting the reports of Saker’s Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade damages the credibility of the blog.
So let me ask you this: what do you think YOUR behavior (both the attempts at posting very rude comments AND your refusal to avail yourself of a chance to present your point of view) did to YOUR credibility with me?
It so happens that I asked Saker’s Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade for a reaction on the events in Serbia. He very kindly agreed to share with us his insights. You do not have to agree with him, but to immediately resort to a tsunami of insults and threats towards Saker’s Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade and myself does not inspire much respect either, now does it?
Frankly, while I personally don’t know much about the situation in Serbia,and while I take no personal position on the events in Serbia or the policies of Mr Vučić, I CAN already tell you that I find Saker’s Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade’s position and arguments far more deserving of a hearing than the mostly inchoate and ugly personal attacks on him or myself.
In conclusion, I repeat here: IF you write a decent analysis of what really is taking place (in your opinion) in Serbia, please feel free to submit it to me and I will publish it if it meets the minimal standards for being posted here.
If rather not use fact-based and logical arguments, then please spare me (and the moderators!) the usual ad hominem accusations you have been trying to inundate me with.
The above is NOT addressed to most (or even many) of my Serbian readers. It is addressed to the relatively minor number of irate protestors who, however, compensate for their lack of numbers by a quasi maniacal determination to somehow get me to stop posting Saker’s Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade’s columns.
Friends, if that is your desire, then you need to change your entire approach. All you are doing now is alienating me and forcing me to take time off much more important things.
So, please stop. Thank you!
The Saker
Pretty sure those are Vucic’s goons, man, no one here would argue what Johnny is saying. I think this has happened to the Balkanist website too, they have published commentary on it too. Decent site, I’m published there too :D
I really want to like Serbia, but I’ll never feel at home here. In Serbia, women carefully avoid that normal split-second of eye contact when passing on the street because they’re used to intense male aggression, and that could trigger it. But if I’m walking with a girl, I must not be a psycho, so other girls stare me down on the street. Strangely, the country has a lower murder rate than Canada, despite an abysmal average income and almost world-leading gun ownership rate, it’s a land of contradictions for sure. It’s really hot yet all their food is winter food. This is a strange place.
When I host guests from SPb, or get in touch with my friends there, or similar places, I’m like oh, wow, interesting conversation is possible. Here in Serbia nearly every convo is dominated by bravado, machismo, I, me, my, ‘oh you think you know something about that, well, let me set you straight.’ Practically no conversation for the pure joy of ideas. That’s from two and a half years of being very socially active here.
I don’t think the under-40s here today could have done what Serbs accomplished in the past. Self-absorbed, thoughtless mama’s boys. Most smart Serbs leave as soon as they can so they can make more than 400 euros a month. They are out there, hard to find though. Delayed gratification is a foreign concept.
There are many wonderful things about Serbia, they are warm and I wish them well, but they really need to raise their boys into men, men with standards, a sense of duty, an apophatic sense of the divine… into Russians, basically.
@Ingrian: “Strangely, the country has a lower murder rate than Canada, despite an abysmal average income”.
They say, money is the root of all evil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVCwBtFHVLo
It’s the Love of money that’s the root of all evil.
Dear Ingrian
Your comments are perhaps the least relevant but the most interesting. You add nothing to the Johnny controversy but you make interesting points about Serbia and how it differs from the West. I am going to discuss those differences and not talk about Johnny-boy or Vucic. By the way, I can’t quite figure out you gender.
Serbian women do not smile and flutter the eyes at every man that passes. Serbian women don’t want attention from every Tom, Dick, or Harry; they are looking for Mr Right and will beam at him when they meet. You say that Serbian men are aggressive with women. I say that Serbian men show great interest in women and treat them with respect. In the West things are very different. I know lots of beautiful women in Britain who don’t have boyfriends and yearn to start a family. Many British men are now practicing homosexuals, or very insecure, or are just looking for casual relationships. None of this is good for British women. Serbian men have not been feminized and are searching for a wife.
As for murders, from my reading of Serbian newspapers, these mostly happen when personal relationships breakdown. Random killings or murders through crime are uncommon in Serbia. This is a Western problem.
Conversations in Serbia? I have had the freedom to discuss anything and everything in Serbia. Do you want to talk politics, race, colour, religion, football? You can say what you want and defend your position in Serbia. Don’t worry it won’t end in a fight and no one will shoot and nor will the police arrest you. You see, in Serbia they still have free speech. No such luck in Canada.
The men you call mama’s boys are just young men who want to have fun with girls and go out with their friends. If their mothers wash and iron their clothes and prepare their meals, well so what? That is what my mother did, God bless her soul.
“Delayed gratification is a foreign concept [in Serbia]” Remind please, which western country are you from?
Not talking about flirty eye contact, just the natural instinct to check who you’re passing near to.
‘Serbian men respect Serbian women.’ That’s the opposite of what every Serbian woman has told me over 2.5 years.
I praised Serbia’s low murder rate.
What western country do I come from… a very Northern one, where, conditioned by -40 winters, people think ahead, and the darkness produces an ethos of ‘Toska,’ a deep, howling yearning for something you need, sunshine in winter, but have no power to get. This makes it a lot harder to be an overt ego maniac than these southern lotus eaters.
You seem preoccupied with East/West. Serbia isn’t that East, it’s trying a lot harder to be ‘west’ than Moldova, Ukraine, or Russia are. Those nations are much more socially conservative and perfectly happy with it. One Serb told me Serbia is secretly middle eastern and obsessed with proving it’s is part of Europe/the west. just like the worst Ustase are from a Serbian background, or the Banderites or Latvian SS were more psychotic than even the nazis, Serbs go a bit hog wild with the instant gratification thing. Especially when contrasted with Nordic nations.
My mom made me make all my own food and sort out my own transportation and do all the chores while she finished her second masters degree, and I’m glad that in true nordic style she did that to make me strong and independent. I have no patience for mama’s boys.
I don’t think you got my point on conversation. Sure you can try to talk about anything, but these people steer the conversation toward expressing their Bravado at every opportunity so conversations go f-ing nowhere. After living here, every time I talk to an educated, professional class Russian, it’s like I’d been suffocating so long and suddenly got to breathe, like I’m reborn . . .
I agree with David below that in the past Serbs were more capable, and I am a monarchist, but I don’t think it’s as simple as blaming everything on the SFRY. I think clearly, there has been substantial degradation after the end of the SFRY. The mass personal traumas caused by the NATO bombings, operation storm, the sanctions era, 200 years of fighting to the death en mass to build something only to have it be comprehensively torn to pieces…
Looks to me like the west has done a better job of crushing true faith than ‘communism’ ever did. I guess they’ve been at it for 1000 years though.
Hi Ingrian
you wrote: …” just like the worst Ustase are from a Serbian background”
Could you please be so kind and disclose some of your sources? please provide a link or whatever. I have read in many different books, papers and articles that Ustasha was an SS linked force composed mainly of croats. Your statement surprised me.
In general your assessment of the Serbian culture does not match my experience with serbs. It looks more to me like you are confusing Serbian with Albanian.
Vercia V.
Croatianized Serbs. A few people here have mentioned this phenomenon to me, your google search is as good as mine.
this isn’t just my experience, but the stories of serbian women. I’ve lived in a dozen countries or so, I’ve never seen such a lack of trust between the genders. As a generalization, there are naturally exceptions.
More than 2/3 of Croats, if not more, are ethnic Serbs, so you are right that worst Ustashe (like there are good Ustashe) are actually of Serbian origin, but 2/3 of quasy nation of Croats is a big pool of people. So easy to find “worst ones”.
By converting to Catholicism Serbian become Croatian, so obviously that process of conversion brings worst in people to the surface. You know little about Serbs! And you are not learning it from us!
Even term Ustashe is of Serbian origin, means Insurgent, rebel….
This is mostly true in Eastern Herzegovina a region that is populated by catholicized and Islamized Serbs. Atrocities beyond belief were committed by the Ustase in this region . Many of its leaders were from other parts of Croatia. I read a recently published book https://www.novosti.rs/vesti/kultura.71.html:865285-Decenijama-nije-bio-dostupan-javnosti-Dnevnik-Lazara-Trklje—svedocanstvo-o-obracunima-cetnika-i-partizana-i-zlocinima-nad-Srbima Eye witness to bestial acts that will shake any sane person to the core.. As I read the book i could not stop the tears.
” By the way, I can’t quite figure out you gender.”
Interesting. I had the same reaction.
Is Ingrian a woman trying to pick up a Serbian woman?
Katherine
Dear Ingrian,
Many of the phenomena which you mention in your assessment of the social circumstances in Serbia are but a sign of the deterioration and degradation of Serbian society through long years of indoctrination under the government of Josip Broz Tito and the Yugoslav Communist Party. Unfortunately, as the older generations which had grown up and were disciplined under the old Royal tradition died out during this period, this created fertile ground for the advent of the irresponsible and narcissist generations that inhabit my country. When you also take into consideration that Tito’s government had very good relations with Western countries and had cut off ties with the Soviet Union in the early 1950’s, there was ample space and opportunity for Western ideas and “culture” to take root in Yugoslavia.
One of the common occurrences which you point out in your comment is the inability of people here to talk about ideas without denigrating others to raise their own worth. It is widespread, to be sure, but also something that is present in the Western countries. You have rightly assessed in your last paragraph that this because people here lack “an apophatic sense of the divine,” i.e. they lack faith. To long have we been denied the joy of going to church and we were even punished for doing so, which for many of the more feeble of heart was too much.
I trust that with faith in God and hard work on ourselves, those of us who are religiously and nationally self-aware will be able to resurrect this poor land.
Sincerely,
David of Rascia
I’d blame the enlightenment, or the broader effects of scholastic theology. Sure, Serbs had it together more in the past. A lot of the degradation has clearly come since the end of the SFRY. the problem in my opinion isn’t a specific -ism but isms in general, and a lot of orthodox would improperly treat the faith as an -ism, legalistic and identitarian, with or without the legacy of the SFRY, anyway. The other, less boldly named -isms prominent now are causing as much detriment as that of the SFRY. Individualism, scientism, nationalism… here’s how I summarize the problem:
Speaking about all that Marxism etc the other day, ism this, ism that, the conclusion I’ve come to is that it’s really all about personal relationships. Buying into a set of values is really just endorsing the leadership of the people who had those values formulated.
No one really gets passionate about abstract things or things that don’t involve their personal relationships. They only seem to do so when they’re projecting. Societies built on abstractions are inherently unstable, especially when the money runs out, as it is in the west.
In a perfect world, we’d have local democracy like the Swiss, where everyone pretty much knows everyone else involved, say 400 people. The Russian peasant villages had that too.
That’s part of the genius of christianity. You’ve got an ultimate creative force, godhead, beyond all human understanding, and the living eternal word of god, or logos, Christ, with which you have a personal relationship.
Compare what kind of personal relationship a subject has with a Tsar or Kaiser and politicians today. The former is, if not perfect, at least an honest, straightforward, constant relationship of hierachy, protection, and duty. The latter is a passing relationship of manipulation. Almost like marriage vs a one night stand or even rape.
The significant thing in life is the quality of our personal relationships and that they are permeated by love, which is like a river we can ride well or badly, but not a force we can master. All the isms, the founding values of America, Leninism, Libertarianism, Nationalism, Nazism, etc etc are built on abstractions, products of the rational consciousness which warp and disintegrate on the slightest pressure.
Still, there is an interesting theory from Marx called commodity fetishism. We see commodities as objects, but they are really relationships we form by buying the labour that went into making them, and accepting how much of the value of that labor was appropriated by the employers.
So following your heart applies to navigating politics and ideology. Buying products and buying into value systems is at heart the formation of a personal relationship.
I read an article on why White Nationalism has failed in America. For me, I don’t automatically feel kinship with whites. French and Italians can (Removed language,MOD) off. Most white westerners are so lost in sophistry it’s not possible to connect, they’ve lost the traditional focus on being guided by the heart rather than rationalized gibberish.
@Ingrian
”… almost world-leading gun ownership rate”.
Seems to me, You (or me) live in some another Serbia, my dear Ingrian!
Where did You found such a data, please?!
Almost no single person I know possess a ”piece”.
Thanks to government and new ”Law on Weapons and Ammunition”, many people had no other choice than to destroy or ”hand over” even hunting or trophy weapons. It is not just matter of money, but complicated bureaucratic procedure, replacing old permits with new biometric ones, obtaining a medical certificate (wording “ability to hold a weapon”).
Documents proving the so-called ”justified reason for owning a weapon” are also an integral part of the procedure. For a citizen who owns a hunting rifle or carbine, it is a certificate of passing the hunting exam or a copy of the hunting card. If the weapon is intended for sports, the “justifiable reason” is a certificate of membership in one of the shooting clubs. In the event that the pistol or rifle is intended for personal safety, the owner is obliged to attach a statement to the “record” stating that his safety is endangered due to the work he performs or other circumstances. All this is followed in parallel by a field inspection by the police before they approve the issuance of the permit.
Dusko Ilic, Secretary General of the National Weapons Association:
“As the procedure is extremely extensive, the big question is whether the job of replacing weapons sheets in general can be done by the expiration of the legal deadline. There are many unnecessary and expensive obligations.
From the beginning, we were against many provisions of THIS LAW, which SEEKS TO DISARM CITIZENS, even though SERBIA is at the VERY BOTTOM OF THE SCALE in terms of the number of WEAPONS OWNED BY CITIZENS IN EUROPE.”
P.S.
This, off course does not relate to the albanian minority on the south of Serbia, at all; not to talk of Kosovo i Metohija (oldest part of Serbia under occupation of so called ”international community” and their puppet narco-criminal gang).
For decades police never even tried to ”put under control”, register or legalize arsenal in their possession. And believe me, it is not only about handguns, but much, much bigger ones; remember rebellion twenty years ago.
Of course, one should ask himself for reason and logic for such disarmament on national level, specially in terms where hundreds of thousands ”peaceful migrants” pass our streets with more and more frequent burglaries, robberies and harassment of our fellow citizens?!
I leave it to You (and other readers) to draw conclusion Yourself:
Why Vucic disarms his own nation?! What is he afraid of?!
My best regards
first link in google
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-highest-rate-of-gun-ownership.html
https://www.dw.com/en/serbia-the-land-of-guns/a-36946878
Had to hand in their guns? sure they did. Laws are so strict here.
It’s well known that Vucic has an army of paid internet bots and professional spin masters on the internet. The entire media network in Serbia is in his hands, and he’s learned a lot from his friend and ally Djukanovic who’s regime resembles Vucic’s one in his present stage.
Faced with criticism, Vucic and his govt. officials usually resort to insults, berating, personal attacks, and launch full-scale smear campaigns in the media against anyone who dares to speak out against them in any way. Vucic’s own hyper-sensitivity to criticism, his neuroticism, and vengefulness is dominating the public discourse to such an extent that most of his goons and followers begin to resemble him.
A couple of Vucic regime apologists I’ve seen around here defend the regime with single-mindedness and zeal that leaves much room for doubt of them being paid internet spin masters. Believe me, these people can be encountered on many blogs and internet sites in Serbia.
Mairon
“It’s well known that Vucic has an army of paid internet bots and professional spin masters on the internet. The entire media network in Serbia is in his hands, and he’s learned a lot from his friend and ally Djukanovic who’s regime resembles Vucic’s one in his present stage”. Ha ha ha ha ha. What a load of nonsense. There is no way that Vućić can be compared to NATO puppet Djukanović.
“A couple of Vucic regime apologists I’ve seen around here defend the regime with single-mindedness and zeal that leaves much room for doubt of them being paid internet spin masters”. Ha ha ha ha ha. Yes, I have been defending Vućić against the support given to those football hooligans impersonating “demonstrators” in front of the Parliament. And no, I am not a payed internet spin master.
I have asked Johnny-on-the-spot to explain why the citizens of Belgrade did not join the “demonstrators”, ie. the football hooligans. He did not answer, as obviously he did not dare tell the truth. Perhaps you can explain why those football hooligans in front of the Parliament never received support from the citizens of Belgrade.
@B.F. Football hooligans?! What i saw were ‘ordinary folks’, older people and young people waving Serbian flags, there were also Serbian priests among the protestors. You have to watch for them protests in many other smaller towns, not only in Belgrade.
Belgrade citizens are more globalists, they won’t join the protests against the government like the one in 2000 unless something happens similar to when Europe had an economic blockade against Serbia in place which triggered them Belgrade citizens to protest against Milosevic in 2000.
They protested against Milosovic because of a blockade by Europe? shoudn’t they have protested against Europe fo rhaving a blockade against Serbia,thats blaming the victim.
dave
I am wondering what demonstrations you actually watched. As I have written before, the riot, called “demonstrations”, was led by football hooligans and initially backed by teenagers. After a few days, the teenagers backed off, seeing they were being used as stooges. No “ordinary folks” participated, nor older people, as ordinary folks do not throw metal barriers at the police, while older people do not have the strength.
I have not the slightest idea why you felt the need to say you aren’t a paid internet spin master, as I don’t remember mentioning any names in my post.
“There is no way that Vućić can be compared to NATO puppet Djukanović.”
I’d expect you to present a counter-argument and tell why but we see no arguments here. On the other hand, there can be many arguments to support the claim of Vucic’s regime resembling the Montenegrin one.
– Destruction institutions and rule of law.
– Centralization of powers in the hands of a strongman.
– A symbiosis of criminal elements and the regime.
– Marginalization and systematic demonization of all opposition.
– Highly irregular electoral conditions.
– Running a state like a private feud.
– Negative selection on all levels.
Speaking about ‘football hooligans’ it’s well known the regime has links with football fan groups who are close to the ruling party as these clubs get millions of euros from the state to keep them afloat financially. Remember 2008 when Vucic led the demonstrations which ended up inflicting damage on private property (unlike with the recent protests) and accusing the regime of hiring paid provocateurs to infiltrate the protests?
We should also mention the regime’s total lack of sense of accountability for their actions, their unfortunate habit of shifting the responsibility for their failed policies to the people, Russian spies, and everyone else but their incompetent and nepotistic cadres.
The police arbitrarily arresting people and detaining them under various pretexts also speaks volumes.
Mairon
No, you did not mention any names, as you applied the indirect approach. However, you certainly had me in mind, as it’s impossible for you to have missed my past comments. I also see that in this post you, too, are using political rhetoric from the 1990’s, sticking labels on President Vućić. You better try something original.
The notorious fact is:
Vucic never even thought of solving problem of hooligans!
The real question should be: Why?!
Well, such a question could only be asked by someone very ignorant or very distant from here. And I do not see You as one those.
His ”special relation” with ”club fun” is well known, he once used to belong (or desperately trying to) them… not so long ago used to tell (invent) in cameras stories of his macho fan fights…
It is obvious fact, they are his ”Praetorian Guard” now, in charge of the dirtiest jobs, such as “friendly persuasion of voters” and the like. As if to “steal the show” from peaceful Protestants, by inciting anger and “justified intervention” by the police, why not ?!
I have read Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade’s post with interest. It sounds like Mr. Vucic is a NATO puppet to me. If he wasn’t then they wouldn’t let him be in charge.
Bill Osborne Jr
If President Vućić was a NATO puppet, then Western controlled NGO’s would not have staged those “demonstrations” in front of the Parliament. The West tried a color revolution. It failed.
@B.F. Those western controlled NGO’s staged demonstrations against the flag waving Serbian protesters. By the way, western controlled NGO’s are quite happy with Vucic’ policies even Jelena Milic from the pro-NATO NGO gives Vucic a thumbs up in his dealing with NATO and Kosovo. Even Cedomir Jovanovic of the liberal party says Vucic is implementing his liberal policies and handling the Kosovo issue in ways Cedomir Jovanovic advocated for. Enough said.
dave
What Western controlled NGO’s say publicly is one thing and what they do covertly is something quite different. What we had in Belgrade was an attempt at a Kiev style coup d’etet which failed miserably.
Well, as far as I can recollect the SNS cadres blamed Russia for it. Google Darko Trifunovic (not in the SNS party but close to it) or Dragan Sormaz up high in the SNS hierarchy who openly blamed Russia for the protest. I believe the first day of protest achieved what it could and that is Vucic backing off from the forced flu vaccination and the lock-down he intended to introduce again blaming the citizens for the uptick in the covid cases.
:) Very nicely put. I think the issue here is that Serbia in reality is a matriarchy due to the fact that for over 100 years men went to wars to defend the country never to return. It seems those wars and mass murder of Serbs everywhere took an irreparable toll on the nation. Here is a stereotype but I have to say it nonetheless: Women are pillars of families and without them we would not exist and I have deep respect for them but modern women are not good at raising fighters and fighters we desperately need not tattooed thugs or manicured metrosexuals. We need polite men in green of Novorusia type.
As for those violently opposed to the different views of the situation in Serbia: They cannot present much of the way of the facts as there are simply no facts that will support their claims that the current government of Serbia is patriotic or pro-Eurasian or at least anti-NATO/EU. Hence their frustration towards those that dare to challenge the current narrative of the current traitor in power and his system. Ludicrous claims of the excellent state of economy (which is tanking) or reduced debt (Serbia currently owes 30 billion dollars as opposed to 17 billion before this government) just don’t cut it.
So they get bogged down in the type of personal slur used by the traitors in Serbia who often resort to ad hominem fallacy.
Your facts about public debt of Serbia are misleading, because they are not expressed correctly.
Public debt is expressed as percentage of debt to GDP:
2012 = 56%
2016 = 72%
2019 = 53%
Source: Ministry of Finance of Serbia
And the GDP is artificially inflated. They use the same mechanisms of calculating GDPs as the EU which takes into account the profits made by cartels in drug dealing, prostitution and people smuggling.
Exactly like that! Here is the guy who says in what state is Serbia from economic perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ARXhWxhSmk
It’s on serbian language.
Care to give a short summary of the video in English?
Have you ever watched american serie Ozark?
Almost 100% of serbian companies who are bulding buildings complex are drug money washing machines. Same for gas stations. And they are all close to vučić. Heck, police close to vičić even had its own marihuana farm. This guy Radovan, in youtube video, is an accountant. He talks about how almost every company in Serbia manipulates books on levels you cannot imagine and how drug money is involved in bussines.
Yes. Radovic is master of numbers. He has amazing talents. Once upon a time he tried to warn the authorities of the wholesale theft of electrical energy but was sidelined and ignored as the theft and smuggling was done in cahoots with the EU as Germany is very interested in obtaining the power generating and distribution sector in Serbia.
That is the modus operandi of the EU. They corrupt the management to mismanage the assets they wish to purchase in host countries then they buy them cents on a dollar.
True that the current zombie government of Serbianis only following in the footsteps of the previous eu/NATO loving zombies.
Johnny-come-lately’s use of ‘tyrant’ to describe Vucic is straight out of the Anglo-Zionist playbook – Milosevic, Saddam Hussein, Assad, Yanukovich, Putin, Lukashenko, etc, etc. If Vucic really was a tyrant, Johnny-come-lately and his buddies would not be on the streets. They would be disappeared. There is the claim that Vucic is a NATO stooge, yet Russian has provided Serbia with Pantsirs, adavnced helicopters and aircraft. Serbia has also been shooting down US military drones.
Regarding Kosovo, Vucic, in a meeting with Lavrov June 18, has stated that any solution to the Kosovo issue would require Russia’s approval and Serbia would never exchange recognition of Kosovo for EU membership. He may be lying of course. There are strong relations between Russian and Serbian military and Vucic would not last long if there was any hint that he would sell Serbia out to the detested NATO.
Unfortunately this is not correct. Vucic and his ministers usually get reminded by his Russian counterparts that the solution for Kosovo and Metohija needs to be sought within the UN Resoulution 1244 which has been under attack by Vucic for the last 6-7 years. Serbian military has constant exercises with NATO and very few with Russia or Eurasia. I think the ratio is 1 exercise with Russians against 10-12 with NATO. Also Serbian government refuses to grant diplomatic status to the Russian emergency centre in Nis.
Vucic is a NATO trained tyrant of Columbia type.
Any Serbian Soldier with any self respect would refuse to work with Nato,its a bloody disgrace.
So true to that. The heroes that defended the country against the NATO Nazis in 1999 were retired and/or sent to the Hague Tribunal for daring to stand against the NATO Nazis. Any Serbian citizen that proudly goes to any NATO event is a traitor and a weasel (personal trait and not the cute animal).
“The heroes that defended the country against the NATO Nazis in 1999 were retired and/or sent to the Hague Tribunal for daring to stand against the NATO Nazis. ”
And that was somehow Vuchich doing, wasn’t it?
Yes, no balls, or do you forget what Seselj said to them at The Hague
Why would Serbia require anyone’s approval?!? Whatever Serbia decides, she does not need anyone’s approval. Unless, Serbia is a puppet state …
Of course Serbia is a puppet state. Has been since 1815. Before that – she did not exist, Ottomans conquered it. What can you or I do about that? French thought they did something about it in 1789. Given what we see on the streets nowadays, it definitely did not work. Oh, wait, they are puppet state too. So is everybody in Europe and beyond. Jury is still out fro China and Russia. And everything will be well if we bring down Serbian government and hated tyrant. New government, not voted by people, will for sure declare war on NATO and send troops to Kosovo to take it back from Albanians. I assume Johnny and the Gang would be leading Serbian forces. Serbs, take rifles and pitchforks and let’s do it. After all, it was done in Ukraine and they are independent and proud nation today, sandwiches included.
And don’t anybody dare opposing it.
Zidar
“Of course Serbia is a puppet state. Has been since 1815. Before that – she did not exist, Ottomans conquered it”. Indeed. Kindly revise your knowledge of history. Serbia as a state existed until 1459. It was again recognized as a sovereign state by the Congress of Berlin in 1878.
B.F, you are right. I did not want to mention pre-ottoman Serbia. Very few people know that much history to understand. My point is, every country is most of the time somebody’s puppet – officially called vassal state. There is no shame in it, especially for small countries. That does not mean people should like it or be proud of it, it is just fact of life.
For people who don’t know, even medieval Serbia started as a vassal state. Member of minor nobility, named Nemanja led an uprising against Byzantium rulers. It worked until it didn’t, and when that did not work, he was captured, taken a prisoner in a cage, humiliated and paraded through Constantinople. He then knelt down before the Emperor and pleaded for mercy his behavior and promised to be a loyal and good servant of the Byzantine crown. The emperor rewarded him by making him ruler of what was then Serbia, of course in the name of the Byzantine emperor. Next iteration was more successful and the Dynasty of Nemanja flourished for next 350 years, until Kosovo 1389. It does not make him less of a national hero. Between 1389 and 1459, Serbia was ruled by Stefan Lazarevic and Djuradj Brankovic. Their fathers fought in Kosovo battle, as Duke Lazar – official ruler of Serbia, and Vuk Brankovic, a mighty potentate, mightier than Lazar himself. Two descendants of two most famous Serbian characters of the era, both served Ottomans. When civil war broke in Turkey, between two brothers trying to become Sultan, Stafan and Djuradj fought in Anadolia (far from Serbia), on opposite sides. Then they went back to Serbia, traveled together as good friends. They succeeded each other on the Serbian throne, one of them married the other one’s daughter. Stefan’s aunt, widow of Duke Lazar, Duchess Milica, after Kosovo battle, gave her oldest daughter to – Sultan Bayazid and she become his favorite wife and bore him sons. technically, at least some of Turkish sultans after that were half Serbs, from the mother side. Most of Serbian nobility after battle on Kosovo 1389 surrendered to Turks, converted to Islam and happily served in Sultan’s administration. I have heard that there is entire block in Istanbul where descendants of those converted Serbs live, under Muslim names, yet they remember the roots. Hard to tell who betrayed whom, especially little guys. 700 hundred years after the fact, we can discuss it, but then, the image was certainly different.
In 19th century, my favorite character is Karadjordje. Hi lead the rebellion, from 1805-1810 and then left Serbia, went to Austria because Turks squashed the rebellion and were after him. The leadership was taken over by Milos. He was tottaly different from Karadjordje. Cunning, sleazy, following self interest, bowing down before Sultan. He even had Karadjorde assassinated, then sent his severed head on a platter to the Sultan, as a proof of his loyalty. The Sultan awarded him title of Duke, to rule semi dependent Serbia. Kosovo was not part of that Serbia, as you know. The rest is history. Lying, deceiving, sleazy Milos basically built new Serbia. Karadjordje dynasty took over in 1903, and lasted until 1941. They thugh were the first oines to bring (conquer?) Kodovo back to Serbia. I personally like Karadjordje, to the chagrin of my grand parents. Before Milos built his Konak in their town, he was staying in their house. And yet I love Karadjordje. Go figure, ungrateful young generations…
So who is the traitor and which tactic worked better for Serbs? We were vasals back then, we are vassals now. What matters is how little guy is faring. My parents tell me thet things under Vuchich are better than before. I do not like him, but I do respect their opinion and experience. After all, it was them who voted and still live there.
Have to go now, I hope I did not bore everybody to death.
I thought there was a Kingdom of Serbia in the 19th C.
Katherine
It was not. In Milos’s time it was Principality of Serbia (Knezevina serbia). It became kingdom later, under another Obrenovic, a nephew of Milos, King Milan Obrenovic. That is not the point, the point is that always and everywhere “elites” had to ally with whomever, if they think that would help them stay on power. Personal power, nothing to do with people. Sometimes, people benefit a little, when rulers believe that giving little something to people will be beneficial to them, rulers.
And we see crocodiile tears over Serbia’s fate, because mightiest of mightiest tyrants won elections, with voter turnout no worse than anywhere in the world. That is irritating, since it wastes energy and time. To our great sorrow, with Sakers support.
Idea for Saker: why not give Russian 5th and 6th column some space, I am sure they would offer refreshing view on Russia and Putin and all, I am positive it would be very nicely crafted article, with very clear points, for all of us to see.
Little off topic sry, but great Serbian nation must have special karma..as dr Steiner said even whole nations have common karma..so it was kinda “written” Serbs would be holy nation here on Balkans suffering en masse for centuries. How can you not love these people?
Thanks to Serb Mihail Pupin our holy mountain Triglav belongs to Slavic nation.
Regards from Ljubljana bratja!
Dear Saker,
That is ok that you asked him for opinion, that is your right of course, this is your place. I would have expected that discussions would be much more than an expression of personal frustration. Unfortunately my tangible questions concerning economy and any alternative solution that would perform better than the one implemented right now stayed at the level of incoherent denial of facts without engaging in any constructive discussion (this including the articles themselves). I am not quite sure why I got back, for this last time as it seems now, but just in time to give you some feedback.
Thank you for sure for these years, wish you all the best.
Regards,
naughty serbian ;)
Hi Naughty Serbian
Thanks for your feedback.
I will just repeat this: I PERSONALLY take NO position on Vucic or on what is taking place in Serbia.
In fact, I would summarize that just took place like this:
Vucic opponents did a great job presenting their arguments.
Vucic supporters only bitched and engaged in ad hominems.
For me, this is very telling.
YMMV of course.
Cheers,
The Saker
Hi Saker,
Isn’t it or shouldn’t it be as telling to you that the only persistent argument ‘Johny off the spot’ is offering is : ‘Eat that sandwich you’ ve got from Vucic’. And he can raelly repeat that many, many, many times. Goebels? MSM?
“Vucic supporters only bitched and engaged in ad hominems.” – This is self explanatory! They have no facts to present their arguments with. What this tells us?
Stekicar
It tells us that the arguments have been cancelled by the moderators, and not that they do not exist.
Congratulations. That’s why I continue reading your site.
Dear Saker,
For my own self, I have been appreciative of the on-the-spot reports. As a typical American, I am mostly ignorant of the issues in that area of the world, I have been pleasantly surprised at the even-handed discussion here. I had actually expected that you would support the Serbian side of the troubles.
Thanx!
Hi Yellopig,
Saker would support “serbian side of trouble” but in this case we have serbian side clashing in-between. One side is pro-traitor-vučić and others are against-traitor-vučić including myself. For you, to better understand this, we have two groups in US: pro-Trump and pro-Dory aka Biden. These pro-Dory people hate Trump so much that they are 100% blinded with it and they cannot see that Dory is even worse than Trump. When I say worse, I am talking that Trump stands left of Biden on many issues. Biden is openly racist and against universal health care. But, his supporters are blind for anything else that comes as a valid fact. So, back to serbians. Pro-traitor-vučić serbians think that traitor-vučić does everything good but bad people around him are ruining everything. They cannot see that he’s surrounded with criminals and the only job he’s left to do is to accept “Kosovo” independence. Meanwhile, they are filling their pockets with stolen money when time come to flee. I hope this explains a little bit better.
I think since Saker really likes Serbs (and we know why), so he gave these “serbian complainers” a “soft” warning. Fair enough. I am Serb but I would not nave been so nice. Same rules for all. Here are the facts that made me convinced that Vucic and SNS party are serbian traitors and (later) criminals brought to rule by US/CIA:
1. Year 2008: SRS (then vucic’s and nikolic’s) party won an election but did not get majority. Dačič, from SPS party made coalition with DS party led by Tadic (also traitors and CIA pupets).
2. One week after 2008 election nikolić started complaining that someone was threatening him and his family. Week later, vučić also came with same complain. This was published on serbian TV station web site. That gave me signal that US/CIA started pressure on them.
3. Stanko Subotić, a criminal, smuggler of cigarettes and who knows what else (currently hiding in Switzerland), was under investigation, and in serbian newspaper Kurir he gave an interview saying that instead of bashing him, Kurir newspaper should ask vučić and nikolić why are they being seen at various hotels in europe and for what reasons are they there. SRS was biggest party in serbian parlament and they were also members in Council of Europe in Strasbourg, France. Also, nikolic was part of seselj’s defence team in Hague. So, these two cities are the only place where they should have been seen. But, they were seen also in Vienna, Austria. I think, at that time Vienna was a US/CIA hub for Balkans.
4. Same year, 09/2008, nikolić leaves SRS party and starts SNS party. One month later vučić joins him.
5. Although they all had signed resignation letters in SRS party, so they cannot be members of serbian parlament if they change party, then serbian president Tadić let them stay in serbian parlament. Coincidence?
6. Year 2010, nikolić “picks” William Dale Montgomery, a former US ambassador in Serbia as “advisor”. They were paying him $7500/h. This is per Montgomery’s US tax returns. Coincidence?
7. Fast forward. 2012 election. Between two election cycles for serbian president, nikolić states in front of cameras of serbian state TV (RTS) that he will make a decision if he is going for second election cycle after he has a talk with then US ambassador Mary Burce Warlick (?!?) He did not say that he will make decision after he talk to his party members, but to foreign ambassador! Coincidence?
8. On sunday, at 5PM, on second election cycle EU congratulated nikolić on victory. Election was still on, until 8PM that day. Coincidence?
9. After winning the election, vučić accepted every treasonous contract DS party did before them although he promised that every contract will be reviewed and cancelled if not in Serbia’s favour. Nothing of this happened and he pushed “Kosovo” independence even further by creating a border with “Kosovo” and forcing Serbs in “Kosovo” to vote on election. More than half of DS party members switched to SNS party, so nothing happened with vučić’s promise that he will put them in jail. Should I mention delivery of Serbian electro-distribution in Kosovo to “Kosovo” state? In 2015, vučić “picks” war criminal Tony Blair as “advisor”. Coincidence?
To all these “serbian complainers”, which of these facts are fake?
I have realized that they are serbian traitors, and tried to convince all of my relatives and friends not to vote for them in 20012, but I only succeeded to convince two of my brothers. No-one else! The hate against DS party was so big that it blind them to see what is really going on. Now, 8 years later, when my friends and relatives are complaining, they say “who knew”?!?
Oh, and this guy, “Saker’s Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade” is 100% correct on how he sees situation in Serbia.
To Stecikar,
OK. Now we know what you are against. Can you tell us what are you for?
For Serbia! Enough?
Did you find anything in my post that is not factual?
The chronology you posted should be sufficient for any sane person to come to the only possible conclusion that the current (and so are the past ones) government are a bunch of traitors.
Every now and then in order to cover for the wholesale sellout they commit they come up with a half-decent measure as it is the one where the other day they renamed the streets bearing the names of the former Yugoslav republic’s capitals hostile to Serbs everywhere and naming them something sensible which any loyal citizen would support including me.
You are avoidong an answer. We are all for Serbia. It is just the fact that your Serbia and my Serbia have very few things in common.
The “facts” you mention are just news lines from Vreme, Blic and the like western propaganda outlets. Not to forget N1 a TV station owned by CIA former cheaf. You are practicaly translating their “news” to this blog.
Vreme, N1, Danas et al will never ever criticise the current government for their (mis)handling of the Kosovo issue. They and the government are all for the same thing – betrayal of Kosovo and Metohija which is the essence of what means to be a Serb. Those outlets are there just to remind the government to the debt they owe to their Western puppeteers.
It is also worth mentioning that David Petrous, the disgraced former CIA chief you mention above, managed to consolidate his Serbia holdings (SBB cable TV and internet provider, N1 etc) during the current Serbian administration. N1 was launched on 30 October of 2014. Vucic and Co came to power mid 2012. Do the math.
N1 is there to criticise Vucic on most trivial issues such as the “lack of democracy) or “freedom in media” in order to mask up the real issues of betraying territory and people.
Once upon a time in Belgrade: a fairy tale
Once there was an was an evil, horrible, terrible dictator who was doing evil things to precious, precious Albanians. Good fairy NATO brought in a
wonderful guy called Osama to help them.
For some reason, the terrible, horrible Serbs did not appreciate Osama and his merry band of headhunters. So NATO did Osama a favor and bombed and bombed and bombed Serbia. They bombed barracks, they bombed TV stations, they bombed bridges, they bombed the Chinese embassy. They told that bad, bad man Slobodan they would just keep bombing and bombing.
When Slobodan threw in the towel, Osama and his pals built an army base, the biggest in Europe. Every day C-130s flew in with tons of heroin.
They all lived happily ever after, except for the Serbs, who got their organs harvested.
The end
Definitely the most likely fairytale I’ve read about Serbia. And I’m not convinced that Johny-on-the-spot served us neutral, balanced and unbiased point of view, there’s something “personal” hidden behind it. IMHO
@Shotek (removed by mod) even western controlled NGO’s like Jelena Milic from the North Atlanatic NGO gives Vucic a thumbs up. You do know Vucic de facto recognized Kosovo through all the policies he implemented? You do know Vucic surrendered North Kosovo over to Pristina?! He approved that and agreed to that! Vucic’ predecessor only surrendered the Albanian areas of Kosovo over to Pristina, but never did they surrender the North, because they were afraid of the nationalists, but Vucic is not afraid of nationalists, he has a history of nationalism, until he found his authoritarian liberal alternative.
I really would not take any notice, taking a cursory skim read of those comments that are critical or worse of the Jonny sit-rep, they are clearly sympathetic to the Vucic regime – in fact, they are not subtle or intelligent enough to hide their sympathies with Vucic personally. That being the case, you are dealing with people who for one reason or another, have a vested interest in supporting Vucic.
I have to say Saker isn’t kidding. You put effort into your analysis and he will give you a platform for discussion. That’s WAY more than most are willing to do.
All presidents of Serbia and government officials since 2000. are servant of West (I will not go back in the past).
They speak about intrests of Serbian people but their actions are opposite.
Their masters are ambassadors from US, Germany, NATO…..
They use Russia card as a tool to gain people’s affection only before elections or when they make some antiserb acts.
For the past 20 years their goal is to :
– Destroy serbian army (so now we have army in state that it can serve only for local parades…)
– Destroy land and domestic agricultural production.
– Destroy orthodox church
But main players in Serbia are not Vucic and officials, but NGO, lead with children and families of former communits, who are loudest and mostly present in TV programs, newspapers etc.(of course media in Serbia is in hands of west).
I could write whole day about situation in Serbia…
I just want to say one thing, even if things are really bad and we know and see it every day, I can sure you that our serbian/orthodox spirit is not broken…and I can sure you our enemies are using all means.
and Saker, you have opened my eyes few years ago when I discovered The Saker, thank you for that.
Vucic won a landslide in the recent Parliamentary elections. He didn’t win because he was overwhelmingly popular. He won because the opposition parties, without exception (though I am not sure about Radulovic), boycotted the vote. Citizens could only vote for Vucic or his Socialist Party ally, Dacic. Had any opposition Party put their name on the ballot, they were sure to win seats.
There are remarkable things about this election that Johnny ignores. In Serbia, political Parties who win 5% or more of the vote are guaranteed seats in Parliament. The government also gives these Parties money to run their Party administration. It is a big thing in Serbian politics to get 5% of the vote. Serbian political Parties sink or swim depending on their government subsidy. Things are different in the UK where political Parties get money from their members and from donations from businesses and Trades Unions. In Serbia, Parties which do not have seats in Parliament will die a quick death. They have no members to squeeze or support from local businessmen.
Why did all opposition Parties boycott the last election and commit collective hara-kiri? My fact-free guess is that they were instructed to boycott the election to give Vucic the majority he needed to change the Constitution and thereby surrender Kosovo it is NATO occupiers. If I am correct, then all Serbian opposition Parties are NATO-controlled. (I use “NATO” rather liberally to describe some nefarious foreign elements. NATO is of course a mere tool of these foreign elements.)
If we are to believe Johnny, it was crafty Vucic who stage-managed the entire election. Politicians who have hated him for years stood aside and gave him carte blanche to do whatever wants in Serbia. Where is the “hidden hand” of NATO (or Sorosites, call them what you like) in Johnny’s analysis? It’s all Vucic, Vucic, Vucic for Johnny. No NATO, M16, BND, CIA, etc, etc, etc.
The fact that NATO controls half of Serbian politics is, in my humble opinion, indisputable. The only question remaining is does it control the other half, too?
We will soon find the answer. Vucic can no longer hide behind the Constitution. He has been ordered surrender Kosovo and has been gifted the mandate to complete this task. Will he obey his orders? Johnny has no doubts. I still have a few.
This concludes my evaluation of current events in Serbia. I will now address myself to current events on The Saker site itself.
The level of analysis given by Johnny and his supports is not high and not worthy of this site. Johnny’s supporters treat contra-opinions as enemy propaganda. We who dare to challenge them are Trolls, bots (whoever they are), and apparatchiks working for the Vucic propaganda machine. I have heard all of this before. NATO attacked President Milosevic in exactly the same way. When NATO bombed Serbian RTS TV studios and murdered 16 journalists and technicians, the BBC told the world that RTS was an evil organization spreading hate and encouraging murder.
I have been involved in Serbian matters for many years and I can tell you without any doubt that the Serbian government is utterly hopeless when it comes to propaganda. In Britain, we not only have the BBC and SKY and similar private networks to spread fake news around the globe, we also have GCHQ (the British version of the US NSA) which has cyberwarfare plans and capabilities. The British Army formed its own “77th Brigade” which is purely a cyberwarefare fighting unit. We also have organisations like the woefully miss-named “Integrity Initiative” which recruits “independent” journalists from around the world to spread fake news and destabilize foreign countries. I guarantee 100% that Vucic has nothing to counter these international fake news and cyberwarfare organisations in Serbia.
I see The Saker has offered space to those who wish to present an alternative view to Johnny’s. But this doesn’t address my objections to Johnny. I have no wish to defend Vucic. I would not vote for him if I could (I am British), and I also find things about modern Serbia unsettling. But that does not mean that Johnny should go unanswered.
The Saker has regular contributors who I enjoy reading. These writers are usually experts in particular regions and that is what they write about. But they add new insights and angles which make them useful to us non-experts. I don’t mind Johnny writing a series of articles about Serbia, but they need to useful. Ranting and raving about the tyrant is not what I want to see.
There are many things about Serbia I would like to know. Perhaps Johnny can restrain his hatred for Vucic and give Saker readers some interesting facts about Serbia.
Thanks for your feedback. However, the opposition too is pro-EU/NATO and have always voted with the current government when it came to selling out Serbia and its interest especially in regards to the Brussels Agreements where the current Serbian government de-facto recognised the NATO state of “Kosovo”. The Serbian opposition too voted for those shameful agreements which handed out almost all the last remnants of Serbia’s sovereignty to the NATO narco-dealers. The so-called opposition would have no problem voting with the current government for the de-jure recognition of the NATO narco state.
I think the role of the opposition is to put pressure on the current gov’t to adhere to the agreement to hand over Kosovo and Metohija and to create content for the NATO media for various obscure reports regarding the “lack of democracy” and “freedom” in media.
I have no problem with Vucic and his followers when it comes to the wholesale theft and corruption, the so-called lack of democracy or freedom in media. I do not watch mainstream anyway and the west is far more corrupt albeit at higher levels.
What I am against the current government policy in regards to Kosovo and Metohija.
Dear Saker,
I would gladly write analysis regarding those events which happened mostly in Belgrade, however it is pointless at this moments since there are no protests anymore. That’s a topic worthy of examining by itself.
I read 2 articles by Marko on the spot and I couldn’t read third as it caused me to cringe because of his inaccuracies, frivolous conclusions which are based on his opinion (or wishful thinking) and general misinformation. I stopped reading his writings after that, since it’s waste of time.
If i wanted to read unfounded opinion pieces, I would go to CNN for Serbia bashing. (or Vucic bashing if they feel like it)
Unrest started without any buildup, calls for coming to streets or any visible organization, yet thousands of people came to same spot at the same time. As Serbs say “How yes no”.
It is visible that there were aggressive small groups which coordinated their actions inside larger crowd.
Yes, police had their provocateurs inside, perhaps they even started the whole thing. I don’t know, nor does Marko on the spot who likes to give impression that he knows which is why so many readers from Serbia cringed and decided to write you emails. Please understand our frustrations.
I never in my life voted for Vucic, I don’t care for personalities, I care for the State and capabilities that my country has!
Speaking of which Serbia is going to receive Chinese version of S-300 which will be paired with Pantzir and Mistral. That’s capabilities of the state, not creative interpretation. There are two units in Astrakhan training for, presumably, S-400 and they are there for over a year if I’m not mistaken.
I don’t see how the collective West can be okay with that, yet that doesn’t prevent Marko on the spot to describe Vucic as he did.
Kosovo? “He will betray it”! Let’s not look at FACTS, instead let’s indulge in conspiracy theories how he will betray. Nevermind that 18 countries revoked recognitions during his return. LOL
Economy? Let’s all pretend how Serbia is not a periphery of one large system which some (including you) describe as the Empire.
There are people in Serbia that live in delusions.
For instance defense minister Vulin. There are jokes describing Vulin as Vulins (plural), thus implying he is a schizophrenic. It was funny, but it stopped being funny for me when I observed grown people actually believing in that.
They never and I mean NEVER use facts to judge his work. Objectively Vulin is the best defense minister Serbia since 1991. In that regard, Vucic is the best president because defenders from war of 1999 are mentioned as heroes (at best it was silence before Vucic and Vulin, at worst they were criminals), MiGs are in Serbian fleet, air defense and artillery are at all time high and they are not stopping with quality and quantity upgrades. Modern soldiers with high end equipment called “Warrior” are in service or about to be. (I’m not military geek, please forgive my lack of details in this regard).
But hey, Vulins. Right?
Why judge defense Minister by the state of the army, when we can judge him by frivolous standards which are in essence a moving target.
What do these protests have to do with Kosovo, economy and state of Serbian military?
It has everything to do.
Let’s not pretend that Kosovo* government was toppled twice by their sponsors and that Vucic was about to go to Washington DC to make some deals which were stopped in brazen fashion by “the Swamp” or “Deep State” in fears of Trump making some irreversible (or difficult/embarrassing to change if Biden wins) changes which could favor Serb interests.
My personal opinion is that Vucic had these protests organized as stress test for the entire system of his reign. Maidan, Skoplje demonstrations, demonstrations in Bosnia which failed to spill over to Republika Srpska, Arab Spring – those were all West sponsored unrests such started from legitimate frustrations in population. If there isn’t frustration, they will create it and augment it to create critical mass.
Vucic is a political technologist, you can’t catch him by his head or tail as Serb proverb says. Just look how he threw a bone and caused the West to expose their divide with regards to Kosovo and Metohija 2-3 years ago. He bought 6 months free of charge.
Marko on the spot gave emotionally charged descriptions of tress, while failing to see the forest in front of him.
With those infantile critiques, Vucic will reign as long as he doesn’t betray Republika Srpska, gives recognition of Kosovo and Metohija as republic of Kosovo or betrays Serbs in Montenegro. That means as long as he wants, which is ironic from my point of vote vis-a-vis of Marko on the spot and his desires.
Best regards.
@Borce 1990
“Objectively Vulin is the best defense minister Serbia since 1991.” – If you are really born in 1990 I would understand this sentence. Did you know that vulin was a war deserter in 1991? Did you know that he was a member of JUL party in ’90s? Whatever vulin and others around vučić did positive for Serbia was not because they were “smart” but because system pushed for it. In this case – serbian army.
@Stekicar.
Yeah I know about Vulin being Mira’s little boy. I know of assertions of his desertion.
I also know that at that time he was blind as a cat. No army in the world would take someone as incapable as him.
He operated his eyes in Russia in 2000s. But hey, it sounds more bombastic to say that he was a deserter, right?
Why bother with facts?
Since you brought up desertion in 90s, here are some statistics. Out of 37 brigades, only 4 didn’t fall apart due to desertion.
Turnout for mobilization:
Pirot – 8%, Belgrade – 15%, etc.
Grandson of legendary Bosko Buha, Nebojsa Buha died as Croatian soldier attacking Krajina.
So please, get down of your high horse and face some ugly facts. Serbs betrayed themselves multiple times and Serbs don’t need enemies while they are undisciplined as such.
As for army demanding anything, where were they when tanks were melted?
You talk about them as if they have some huge influence in the shadows. I’ll tell you a little secret, they are on average very incompetent.
Only in last decade new generations came and guess who is grooming them?
Vulin and Vucic. As far as I see Vulin and Vucic are doing great job in that regard because they are more educated and equipped.
Again. Judge Vulin by FACTS, not by some criteria you just made up and expect others to conform to. I didn’t notice ONE WORD about state of the military except implying how they are powerful today. Which is (oh irony) something that Vulin should be credited for.
@Borce1990
It is Vucic who has brought EULEX to Northern Kosovo, who in turn gave Serbian institutions over to Pristina. EULEX was until then only present in Albanian areas. It is Vucic who surrendered the borderposts to Kosovo authorities despite heroic and successful resistance of Kosovo Serbs at the barricades. It is Vucic who is negotiating in Brussel the surrender of Kosovo to Nato and Albanians. Borce, you do understand what the Brussel negotiations are about? Are you that naive or just too young to understand all.
Have a look what Doctor of Law and Professor Dejan Mirovic has to say about Vucic and in what way he violates the constitution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQJaBlTru2M
I see you expect me to defend Vucic’s decision to disband northern municipalities. I condemned them back then.
How many years have passed?
I think we can assess the merits of that decision today.
But what exactly changed?
Except the form, everything is the same.
Serbs control Gazivode without which Shqiptars can only take a picture. Trepca is locked.
Now Shqiptars have to fund Serbs in the north, just like Serbia was funding Shqiptars for decades, while still having hearts and minds in Serbia’s favor.
On the other hand, Serbia can’t be pressured as someone who is blocking everything and “causing instability”.
Look around you, it’s the exact opposite at this moment.
There is nothing more I would like than to have tanks rolling over and liberating Kosovo and Metohija, but let’s be real here and make the best of what we have.
Kosovo and Metohija is going to be a marathon game where Serbs will show their place in history. Vucic is actually doing something good in the long run, let’s force him to continue doing exactly that and stop with infantile expectations that he will do everything perfectly as if we live in vacuum. There are other forces present, did you know that?
Did you pause to think for a second that they are even more powerful than Serbia?
Other metrics are used in this game and for now we are winning. Be happy, don’t be Stefan Dusan who effectively brought down Nemanjic dynasty, be Stefan Milutin or Stefan Decanski who made it possible for Stefan Dusan to go to his rampage of power thirsty land grab.
I guess you know history, so you know what I am talking about.
Everything changed by Dacic and Vucic’s signing the Brussels Agreement. Ask Marko 5:NILL Djuric who was dragged by his hair by the narco terrorists dressed in KLA uniforms through the streets of K. Mitrovica a year or so ago. Or regular raids by the narco terrorists into the north of K. Mitrovica where previously they had no access whatsoever thanks to Dr Marko Jaksic and other heroes who stayed back and defended their homes from the terrorist hordes in 1999 and 2004. This lot in power today gave the terrorists everything: judiciary and police (head of police in K. Mitrovica is an Albanian), international call sign, electro-distibution network and right of passage through Serbia proper using their NATO/Kosovo* rego plates.
The financing of the whole Kosovo* narco state is done by way of taxes that the narco state officials charge for foodstuff imports from Serbia at the border that Vucic and Dacic helped establish in 2013 when he asked NATO for “45 minutes to sort out” the Serbs who dared not to vote in the elections organised under narco-state laws.
How about the SNS electoral ad where they had a video of Serbia flyover without Kosovo and Metohija. That is definitely not a very subtle message that they do not consider Kosovo and Metohija part of Serbia.
If you cannot find the spot, here is a link: https://direktno.rs/politika/276605/spot-sns-za-nasu-decu-ali-bez-kosova-video-.html
@Borce1990
”… the best president because defenders from war of 1999 are mentioned as heroes”
You mean: the same ”war veterans and war invalids”, who spent last winter in tent-camp in ”Pionirski Park” just across Presidency, protesting and asking for minor meeting from the Emperor Vucic?!
Tyrant, who did not have the courage to look them in the eye; as well as is fact that it would irritate his masters who cannot get over the fact that they did not defeat the same defenders militarily in 1999.
Veterans who spilled their own blood defending state, while he was doing what in that time???
As Minister of Information, he succeeded to grab an apartment in New Belgrade of 117.5 square meters, immensely jealous of his party colleague, future president Tomislav Nikolic (gravedigger by profession, suddenly turned into a graduate manager) who grabbed almost 60% bigger (186 square meters).
Shame!
I didn’t notice one word about the change of Overton window of Serbian public which happened during his Presidency. Which the topic I discussed.
Yes, you are correct about all that you said. Can we now get past your rant and focus on WHAT I ACTUALLY Said? (in case you didn’t notice, you are replying to my topic, feel free to start your own. See if I care.)
This is why Serbian society is progressing at such disappointing pace. Your answer here sums it up perfectly.
I speak about one good thing which I consider is positive for our society and you gather 3 bad things. Wow, you are so prudent to notice something obvious. Is the shy blue?
Only dictatorship works with people like you. Only then you start becoming productive and don’t waste your and someone else’s time on things that are useless.
Here you go Saker. A balance article from an eye witness.
https://fort-russ.com/2020/07/flores-serbia-protest-explosion-vucic-caught-between-coronavirus-and-color-revolution/
We already discussed this article fgs! Are we now going to repost and rediscuss everything?
Btw, Pindos, I remember our last exchange very well. You posted an extraordinary direct quote from the Patriarch Irinej. I asked you for a link and it never appeared. You never answered! You invented it didn’t you?
Here’s the link
https://balkaninsight.com/2019/04/04/serbian-patriarch-irinej-religious-leader-or-political-cheerleader/
AND no one to my knowledge discussed the article I just reposted. Did you read it? Do you have comments about it. – FGS.
Are Serbs all just stupid.
Apparently the 70% of Serbs that voted for Vucic aren’t stupid.
70% out of 40% that voted. In numbers, out of 6 million voters – 1,7 million voted for traitor. What that tells you? Hint: It is not like in Russia where 70% voted and 90% voted for Putin.
The numbers seem right. 1,7 million people voted for Vuchic. 3.3 did not. The problem is out of 3.3 that did not vote for Vuchic, did not vote at all. If you do not vote at all means you don’t care. since you don’t care, what right you have to complain and request this or that? perhaps, if the demonstrators become 1.7 million strong in front of the legislature building, than we could talk. Not before that.
You guys say from time to time that you do not represent current opposition. Yet, you have the same arguments and use the same style. I learned from Saker how to recognize color revolution attempt, when we were discussing Hong Kong. Mob starts with one request. In our case – announcement about new curfew. Government recanted, we can cross that one of the list. Then we have new requests – Vuchich is thief and traitor. Did not work. Then Vuchic is NATO stooge, and he works with Opposition as well, and he helped organize demonstrations with the help of Russians. Then we touch Kosovo. Now, why in the world would be Johnny and the gang care about Kosovo? Hard to believe that one would get you any points. It did not. Then we have new argument – Kosovo. You do not care a bit about Kosovo. How do I know? Many people on this blog concluded that you guys know what you do not want, and you were asked what is that you want. We never got any answer. If all you want is topple Vuchic and his government, without any better solution, how does that help anybody, especially to Kosovo and Serbs on Kosovo. Sure, Kosovo is always good to use as ammunition, it touches political nerves and brings sympathies. Or does it? Everybody, position, opposition, neutrals like to talk Kosovo, even Putin talks Kosovo. Kosovo works for Putin so can shut the western dogs about Krimea. Official Serbian governments like to talk about Kosovo, to score cheap political points. Opposition likes to talk Kosovo, so they can blame official governments for loosing Kosovo. We come to Johnny and the gang. Running out of arguments and shooting themselves in the foot each time we are given a dire announcement, then nothing happens, let’s use Kosovo as argument to bash the government.
In one of the replies I challenged Johnny and the gang to lead a rebellion, we would all help, and go to Kosovo. No reply, even to tell me how I am paid by Vuchic. Dear Johnny and the gang, none of you have ever been to Kosovo. I doubt that you even know somebody from Kosovo. You use Kosovo hoping to score cheap political points. I said the same thing about any political factor in Serbia and abroad, so it makes you the same as them.
By the way, do you know how much land Serbs posses on Kosovo, these days? All of those who possess land on Kosovo, and are forced to move to Serbia, we can call legitimate victims of Albanian terror. The problem is there are very few Serbs in that category. All others – sold their land and moved to Serbia proper. Once you sell the land, it is not yours anymore and you have no claims on it. Serbs in Bosnia had and still have in their possession more than 50% of land. Bosnian Serbs at the beginning of the war literally owned the Bosnia. Republika Srpska exists, mad and built by Bosnian Serbs. Without much official help from mother Serbia. Remember how Milosevic disowned Bosnian Serbs and blockaded the borders? Fortunately that blockade was simply ignored by common people. Milosevic was much more influential and followed by Serbs than Vuchcih or anybody after 5. October “”revolution” so far. Yet, common people ignored his betrayal. That should convince you that no one can sign-off Kosovo, if Serbs really do not want to allow it. Serbs are known of getting rid of rulers, sometimes violently, so don’t you worry about serbain peolse and their state of mind and spirit.
I hope to write a longer text on Kosovo, Republika Srpska, Serbia, in recent and not so recent past. I will state some opinions, which i am entitled to, most would be hard facts easy to verify (not Wikipedia).
See you then
That’s the one Pindos! Well done.
After reading it, I can see now why you were reluctant to share it.. (I did ask you nicely the first time to tell us to tell us where you got your quote.) It confirms all my suspicions regarding Irinej.
As for the Flores / Fort Russ article, it was posted back in July. Fyi- Here is the start of our discussion about that article:
/mass-protests-shake-the-throne-of-serbias-insufferable-tyrant/#comment-830398
I stand corrected. I missed that thread.
As for reluctance, I thought you would just google a direct quote like I just did to find it for you. Pax
I’ll go with the Patriarch’s opinions. I have no suspicions of him at all.
@Pindos, It is not a color revolution because the liberal and western sponsored NGO’s were demonstrating against… Guess! Against the patriotic protesters waving Serbian flags. It is not for nothing Cedomir Jovanovic of the liberal party is saying about Vucic that he is implementing liberal policies and handling the Kosovo issue that Cedomir Jovanovic called for and for which people have accused Cedomir of being a traitor.
Dear Saker,
I can only express my heartfelt gratitude that you have devoted your time and the space on your site for content about my country, Serbia. I remember with what love you speak of the Serbian people and about Drazha Mihailovich. As for those irate Serbian readers who have sent you mail venting their frustration, they lack any capability to value this and react in the only way that they know: by being cantankerous and passive aggressive.
Saker, you do not really know what is going on, you are removed by thousands of miles from this in your Florida. It is the finishing process of destroying the big country, and it is ugly now and very direct..
I am now a declared Yugoslavian, claiming my right to know what is happening here. Just the last rites to finish the country, and yes, am in Croatia, similar destruction is happening all over the ex yu, the destruction is going on.
I give you some links:
https://zulfahmed.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/engdahl-full-spectrum-dominance.pdf
And, Saker, thank you for all you do…
See the ‘Weight of chains’, if you can manage the time.. 3 episodes, not perfect, but OK. Somewhat enlightening…
Discard 50 % and you come to a sensible truth.
Personally I thing that any (any!) analysis which not considered Covid19 hoax – is practically worthless.
Since we are experienced practically complete World lock-down in 2 days, based on fake “science” and everything controlled from criminal WHO (controlled by family Gates and Rockefeller) – the question is:
1. How it is possible?
2. Who has such might?
The occurrences in Serbia is in strong connection with whole World, as president Vucic is just a kind of “administrator” of this Might!
Please find translated (in Serbian) those 2 video:
https://jubitu.com/videos/watch/41ac0df6-aed9-4b0e-befc-5ce6ee996d23
https://jubitu.com/videos/watch/364132ac-b847-4c6d-83c6-b9fa66f82427
It is more than obvious, that the same Might is behind of lock-down of the Whole Planet (based on hoax “pandemic” as you can see and read from attached documents from previous video) and all “presidents” including president Vucic.
Obviously, all “presidents” (which complied with hoax “pLandemic”) have the same Boss !
President Lukasenko (Batko) – is definitively own Boss and man from people!
Here is also an quite good analysis of the situation now – including Corona Hoax!
(Again mr. Saker… it is more than obvious that without including Corona-hoax any analysis is somehow wrong)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gvKyX0UN20
@ malleni
“…
https://jubitu.com/videos/watch/41ac0df6-aed9-4b0e-befc-5ce6ee996d23
https://jubitu.com/videos/watch/364132ac-b847-4c6d-83c6-b9fa66f82427
…”
This two-part video is amazing!
Who is the lady who did the research for the video? I have not seen it before. Truly remarkable revelations indeed. And the beauty of it is, that the clear way this was presented allows everyone to verify the pertinent facts by oneself.
Thank you very much indeed.
Richard,
She is really great!
Amazing Polly. I personally think that she is between top 5 researcher/analysts in the World with regard of the “hidden” phenomena (aka “deep state”).
Her channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJkOZZrGNEJYDhzVwd24Bfg
Additional one (perhaps you know) James Corbett:
https://www.youtube.com/user/corbettreport
I personally think, that intensity of attach on the humanity is so huge – that any analysis without Covid hoax is worthless…
BR
@ malleni
Thank you so much!
Her latest video there, “To Serve Man – The Lie Of Philanthropy”, is simply great!
(BTW, here’s that memorable Twilight Zone episode, the leitmotiv in her truly remarkable analysis https://bflix.to/series/the-twilight-zone-qj9n/jv5wl92 )
Chinese Drones Now Deployed In Balkans After Serbia Deal – NATO On Edge. This appeared recently on zero hedge, of interest I think.
Note to commentator … your first comment was sent to Saker for review … moderation rule #2… Saker’s moderation policy is to discuss ideas and events of the day. Ad hominem comments are not allowed mod