I am quite sure that the photo of the MH-17 being shot down is fake. The military aircraft appears to be a SU-27, the angle is wrong, as is the side of the attack, and this is not a satellite picture.
To Pen Gun, the 68 year old offended hippie: in the Russian context “liberal” means something very different from what it means in the USA.
Now I hit the road again.
Next com tomorrow (maybe)
The Saker
Saker Message:
About the fake MH17 pictures,could it be an AZ action(manipulation)to help the fith column in RF?
Just in time of the G20…this may be a fake leak ‘on purpose’,just to say then”look at the russians and Putin this new Hitler,they are using fake pics’to manipulate in international community,this proofs they are guilty(NR or RF).
A bit crazy…but you never know with the AZ.
As we say in French”à qui profite le crime”?
The Rostov radar track was certainly a problem for the Kiev apologists. I noticed on Twitter they were all dismissing the First Channel photo as a laughable fake while ignoring the Rostov radar track. Makes me think the Langley boys had a fake ready to go and may not have even needed an inside man at First Channel to get it on the air there, knowing how quickly Russian journalists would want to please some (but not all bosses) but putting out anything that implicates Kiev. Very clever. Someone already wrote about this phenomenon with StopFake.org whereby they or that Ukrainian fanatic lady who works in Phoenix, AZ for the feds debunk ‘fakes’ nobody at any of the pro-Novorossiya sites is pushing. Makes me think the Langley boys are very clever and had contigency disinfo ops ready to roll in case Russia released more radar data. Now they can say ‘see we debunked it all and caught the Rooskies lying again, there never were any Ukie jets anywhere near MH17’.
Russian media outlets and pro-NAF sites need to get a lot more clever about this and HOLD OFF before just running with something, to make sure it’s not planted disinfo to discredit them. After all the Ukies lie all the time but because Western media never report their lies they get away with it.
Just my 0.02.
MiG 29 fits the photo.
A Rumanian Air Force officer first suggested it was a MiG not an SU. Then it has been suggested by other authorities that it was a MiG.
The photo would have to be shot from a satellite. It is definitely not a normal aerial photo for mapping shot by a plane with film camera or sensor.
The aspect ratio is not typical square image. So, it is cropped into a rectangle.
Without seeing an original, and this is clearly a composite to show the insert of the jet fighter, the source camera or sensor is impossible to evaluate.
The fake potential is high. But I don’t see the obvious mistakes when photoshop is used to insert objects into a scene. The sun angle looks consistent. The MiG is in a hazy, cloudy section compared to the clear sky the MH-17 flies through. The three main elements look consistent.
It could be from another platform, U2-type, SR-71 or some high flying drone.
But it is probably from a low orbit satellite. Russia has been putting up some for themselves and other nations this year.
The fact that it is on the co-pilot side of the airliner may be a problem. Early reports said the pilot side was hit in the cockpit. If that is so, then this is not the plane. But there was talk of another jet fighter. It is not in this image. So, the facts are not in alignment, not complete and we really don’t know yet if this is real, fake or partial truth.
The missile exhaust in the image leaving the jet fighter may or may not be real.
Who would do a fake? Why?
All we do know is the West does not seek the truth, does not want Russian help from experts on the ground, has not put the pieces of the plane together, are not transparent, have not demanded all the voice recordings from the tower, have not released the flight and voice recordings from the plane, and are part of the crime as accessories after the fact.
Australians, the Dutch, the Ukies and the OSCE and UN are all culpable in trying to whitewash and stonewall.
Only Russia has fought for an open, International, profession investigation.
I hope one day we get the facts, the truth and the culprits who planned, financed and execute this mass murder.
(I have 47 years in the image business—films, photography, scans, CCD and CMOS sensors, aerial photos, U2 film, satellite images, etc. )
If this were higher resolution, I’d do a closer analysis. It is impossible to judge much with this material.
photo is from 2011: http://i.imgur.com/XrpD61K.jpg
malaysia-logo is too much at the front: http://fishki.net/upload/users/426304/201411/14/646268bb3ce6aadd9957656136dfa7cc.jpg
Seems the MH17 picture is a fake.
Here is a copy of a comment posted on Moon of Alabama:
a photo of a plade shooting a missile at MH17 has surfaced
background to the MH17 photo sent by email from an ATC named George Beatle
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/759835
already Brown Moses is debunking it
http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/proof-the-russian-tv-satellite-photo-of-mh17-is-fake/
Posted by: brian | Nov 14, 2014 7:29:53 PM | 27
Most likely a fake. Wrong side for a couple of reasons. Details of aircraft behavior after attack indicates fighter launched missile from other side and took out left engine. The right engine thrust would cause a yaw to the left since the pilot’s reaction time would not allow rudder input to counteract the sudden yawing moment. Then the fighter made another pass and used cannons or another fighter did the final run. As I remember, Carlos said two fighters. The piiots would only know they have an engine problem and get down to business trying to understand the situation they are in. No mayday yet I suspect. Then the final kill shot with cannon. A well planned false flag most likely CIA. Maybe some inkling on the cockpit tapes, but I doubt it. Tower conversations a smoking gun due to intent.
Stephen Cohen on Zakharchenko and more, good stuff – audio of interview:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/188441/stephen-cohen-who-donetsk-peoples-republics-new-leader
I believe the angle is right, as is the side of the attack(note that it is the attack by missile not by cannon,which propably was the second part of attack not the first as many ppl think,in other words MH17 was damaged by IR missile from the right side and finished off to the cabin by cannon from the left side)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEbiSRFYTZY
So this photo should be real
I also feel that this is a fake, and so I said on Facebook. Any decent space pic would have date stamp, coordinates and lots of other info.
So far the Russian government hasn’t spoken, and I hope soon they will publish their own satellite pictures.
My calculations suggest that the camera was about at about 33600 feet, based on the the dimensions of the supposed Boeing 777 and the length of Donetsk runway. This could only be the case if the camera was on board an aircraft rather than a satellite. This would be possible but would presume whoever took the photograph was in on the action with a reconaissance aircraft in exactly the right place to take the shot. The radar trace shows no such aircraft, so it would have to be a stealth aircraft. Which country would be in on the shoot-down and has stealth aircraft?
Interestingly the photo was released on a blog about a month ago. See posts #15 to #17 in this blog entry.
http://z5h64q92x9.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/obkon.ucoz.com/forum/59-1403-1#6869
It was posted by a user with only 3 posts. It was ignored at the time. So who is this user? Where did he get the photograph?
American Kulak – good to have you back, especially in the heat of battle. I hadn’t even realized why I was confused, in the back of my mind. I spent the evening catching up on news sources, and that “satellite” fake is everywhere. Meanwhile the original pic I saw here, the Rostov radar track, is nowhere.
Win some, lose some. Good point to learn from – interesting to think there’s a war room tracking info and disinfo. I have to admire the disinfo, on the thoroughness of the planning, and on the timing of the execution, and the hits it got. I have no doubt there’s a room in Russia watching all this too and learning from it.
I’ll go further. There’s a reason that false flags don’t have the impact they used to have. Disinfo ploys and fakes will go the same way too.
[from Blue]
9/11…
There were a number of sites/people saying the towers were brought down by energy beams the government learned of from space aliens — all sorts of crazy stuff. I figured it was dysinformation to discredit “truthers” or anyone who questioned the official narrative. An informational false flag, so to speak.
Expect this stuff.
_Blue
Honest Russia gets all blame and persustent angko liars get away with all lies !
Shows how clueless and stupid Russia is
games, games and more games.. the usa had a satellite overhead when mh17 came down.. they have the data.. they aren’t saying.. do you really think if they had data pointing to russia they wouldn’t release it? com’n folks.. the reason they aren’t releasing it is it points back to kiev.. any other bits of info that come out on this is a distraction pure and simple.. if they have something on russia the would have released it by now!! the best they can do is say a buk missile in rebels hands shot it down.. apparently that is good enough for the sheeple.. james in canada.
But when Obombi does it, its A-OK?
The picture doesn’t pass the smell test -no contrails, light/shadow direction looks odd between the two aircraft, intercept angle, though irrelevant to a missile launch, is directly at MH17, which means that the SU-27 would pass well behind for a deflection cannon shot etc. etc.
Full propaganda marks for debunking and masking with a fake what really happened -a Ukie fighter jet attacking MH17 with cannon then launching a missile. Just not this one.
Did we ever hear about the autopsies in the pilots ? Did they ever recover their bodies ? What condition were their bodies in ?
Exactly what I noticed, Saker. The “fighter jet” in the photo is a SU27, not an Su25. The long nose and swept back wings are a dead give-away.
Like Anonymous and American Kulak above, I think it was a CIA or similar setup intended to discredit Russian satellite and radar data by suckering their TV into posting an obvious fake.
The frustrating thing is the Russians obviously have detailed radar and electronic data intercepts, probably including any traffic between MH17 and Kiev, and maybe about the military aircraft in the vicinity, although they probably maintained radio silence for obvious reasons. By not releasing it, they allow the US and it’s puppets to dominate the news with fraudulent claims.
No doubt they think the truth will come out in due course, but several years down the road, nobody cares about yesterday’s news except historians and political junkies. You need to dominate the news as it happens, not issue an unnoticed footnote correction on page 73 between the Want Ads years later. Nobody will notice that and everybody will remember the loud and frequently repeated accusations.
It’s a fake. Besides the wrong angle of shooting (the proofs on the ground lead us to believe that most of the impacts were on the left side of the cockpit) the brand Malaysian’s position do not matches with the Boeing 777 real design.
another website people can check out……http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/
I suppose someone could leave a list somewhere(links) of other websites (english would be nice, sadly don’t understand anna-news, novorossiya sevastopol etc because of translation probs), then we could scour these to source info not opinion for Saker to put in an ongoing “latest live collective/panic info”info blog so the latest thread by Saker doesn’t become a blog on everything not just current topic(to preserve purity of thread)??????, (we are all anxious to provide latest news)with accurate info etc to check out? Then opinion by responders linked to the “info blog” via a separate “opinon blog” “but maybe they are all becoming part of what is suggested by a separatist called the ww3 the info/disinfo war, now we have ww4………….how to separate opinion from info also….cross posting articles is great from other sources but sadly/regretfully I can’t spend every minute checking it all out or will burn out despite my hunger to learn, perhaps it could get all too complex and too much for Saker(need to protect against that) to filter out any potential comments that are/could be destructive ie trolls etc, too much nastiness out there -I find it tempting just to put my comments just under latest blog by Saker rather than post where it might be more appropiate under previous threads(admitting own fallibilities)but wanting to keep in the “now” if you see what I mean………apologies for rambling hope people don’t mind too much-looking forward to new blog arrangements by saker
Has anyone looked at google maps?
Detail from Google Earth view of 48°06’38.51″ N 38°11’12.51″ E on September 17, 2011.
I’m going with fake. I thought so immediately, since close examination of the hi-res images of that port-side cockpit fragment shows it was hit by an external shockwave bearing a range of fragment sizes, down to small grains that made tiny pits in the outer aluminium skin, but not the inner layer, exposed where shockwave gas pressure peeled back the outer layer around large penetration holes. All that ‘bullet holes’ stuff is pure misdirection hooey, but I don’t know for what purpose. MH17 was hit with a missile that detonated a shaped charge fragmentation warhead some distance from the port (left) side of the plane. What type of missile? I don’t know, but I’m sure it was fired by Kiev forces, on US orders.
Now to the ‘satellite photo’ of the fighter plane firing a missile. This too is pure hooey. Here’s my photoedit of the released image: http://everist.org/pics/misc/overlay%20of%20MH17shootdown_7K.png
All I did was shift the airliner and fighter so they are next to the visible airport runway. No scale changes. I’ve also pasted in a google maps image of the same airport, with the scale. Remember that photo is alleged to be a spy-sat image. But with these scales that’s impossible, even from the lowest possible satellite orbit, at the very upper edge of the atmosphere (100 Km). Not unless MH17 was something between 500m to a kilometer long.
Even for the lowest possible orbit, the spacing is: airport for scale at ground, plane 10 Km up, camera 100 Km up. Airport is around 3Km long, plane appears longer than airport. The perspective size difference from plane to airport should be no more than 10%.
Sorry, it doesn’t work unless that photo was taken by something much, much lower than a satellite.
BUT WAIT! There’s an even better and much funnier proof the photo is a fake:
MH17 was shot down at 13.20 hrs UTC, 17th July 2014, near Hrabove, Ukraine. Ukraine is on Eastern European time, ie UTC+2 (UTC+3 in daylight saving, which it was then.) See http://www.timetemperature.com/europe/ukraine_time_zone.shtml
So local time was 16.20, ie 4.40pm. Late afternoon. Recall that the crash occurred shortly before nightfall.
Now, in the ‘satellite photo’, the illumination of both the airliner and the fighter is coming from the right, ie the East. Ha ha ha! But it should be coming from the left – the afternoon sun, soon to be setting in the West.
No, the ‘satellite photo’ isn’t rotated. MH17 is oriented correctly for its flightpath, and the runway (which is Donetsk airport, here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=48.071656,37.716579&spn=0.081555,0.140762&z=13 is correctly oriented.
So unless the Sun was setting in the East over Ukraine that particular afternoon, the photo is a flaming lie. Just like practically EVERYTHING else we hear in the MSM about those events.
That ‘satellite image’ is an even more blatant, stupid fake than the official White House ‘Obama Birth Certificate’. Really, I think someone knocks these things up as a kind of Satanist Cabal insulting gesture to the masses.
TerraHertz
I guess there must be plenty of fakes – after all there were plenty of fakes within days of Russian BUKs.
But the interesting question is not why it was faked, but why it is getting mainstream attention. the Daily Mail and Daily Express are about as loyal as you can get.
My guess is that perhaps some confusion needs to be in the air, and the US needs to appear to be genuinely agnostic on the issue. That is to claim it never backed the Ukraine sourced stories and never denied the Russian version (and by implication never had any direct info of its own – weak point).
The US no longer needs evidence against Russia – the sanctions mean that Russia is already defined as a criminal.
Psyops master piece, imo. Russian media finally coming of age? And Putin gets a cruising 3-day G20 break down-under while certain comments are now not made “just in case” … etc.
I am still trying to make sense of the Rostov radar image, as it the time date stamp is 20 mins after loss of all contact with MH17.
I am beginning to think that is a screen shot from an analytical software, based on the original PSR/ SSR data input.
yes it is fake.
the shape of the plane has a projection on the map of 5,7 km (from the head to the tail) so the picture must be taken from a plane flying 100 m above malaysian plane.
you can’t see ukry plane far 500 m from the top, but rather from a side.
Well try not to be disappointed.
Positive thinking would encourage – if you don’t suceed, try, try, try again.
For more positive thinkers the following suffix is added – so you can screw up even more.
Ah the disadvantages of categorical imperatives and focus on content to the detriment of form and purpose.
Still foggy on the bottom; but of course its difficult if you depend on mirrors.
UN Moon trying hard to shout over Obama’s sudden and miraculous 3-day Beijing conversion to Climate Change (we so far can’t believe in happening) — and just in time for the battle of the ‘veto’ over the Republican Houses’ Keystone pipeline push. $3b of imaginary virtual dollars to the US industry complex to droop ‘crap’ on the undeveloped world. Easy for Beijing — converting from Australian coal to Russian gas meets targets.
“Talk to Putin!” NOW!
—
“At the summit, United Nations secretary-general Ban Ki-moon urged world leaders to sit down with the Russian president to address the ongoing conflict with Ukraine.
Mr Ban said the conflict raised the fear of old Cold War-style divisions that could have global implications.
He said the US president and European leaders should use the G20 summit to discuss the issue with the Russian leader.
“They should sit down together to address all of these issues, harmoniously, peacefully, through dialogue,” he said.
“The continuing conflict and tensions and violence in that south-eastern area of Ukraine is not helpful at all.””
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-15/five-killed-in-ukraine-conflict-merkel-unhappy/5894464
saker don’t forget all humans are the same, Homo sapiens have been made into mere extensions of some ‘word’ unfortunately, and that’s the real rub of getting the hub of the wheel enlightened.
when the spokes of the big wheel that turns and turns are broken, the wheel can’t do the best job of the wheel.
and when the individual isn’t enlightened, there is no hub to keep the spokes in the big wheel.
thus, enlightenment is not about words or the meanings, enlightenment can’t be actually ever put into the ‘proper’ words because each individual is an enlightenment.
arrogant is not an enlightenment.
on the road with wind at your back and the spirit of enlightenment choosing all your words, all the time.
Dear The Saker,
I read this on Penny’s blog comments:
“Note: The Interpreter is a project of Institute for Modern Russia, headed by Pavel Khodorkovsky, the son of Mikhail Khodorkovsky”
Seems this is linked to Brown Moses.
Funny the Rostov radar information wasn’t shown on Channel 1 – the 5th column in action….out comes real info. so they bebunk with fakes….
Rgds,
Veritas
There are some great “counter” sat photos doing the rounds of the internet & twitter.
http://www.les-crises.fr/actuukraine-15-11-2014/
(scroll down a bit)
https://twitter.com/ofehr_en/status/533596778667720705
https://twitter.com/AurelianoFerri/status/533312307695472640/photo/1
not as good as the Godzilla image response to Kiev US Embassy image release in summer….
enjoy
The uncritical blanket adpotion of systemd among linux distros is unusual. The init system’s mission creep is expanding at an alarming rate even to things like the console.
Why? This seems un-unixy, untested and unoptomized for servers (the vast majority of linux use cases), and bad for choice. It’s also non-portable, too bad BSD, etc interoperability.
It has been pushed by the gnome community, and shows many of its design biases, which don’t include KISS. More of a monolithic all-or-nothing software-stack.
It’s rather opaque. One wonders, what are the security concerns?
Few distros now use alternatives. One is Void Linux which uses the modern and minimalist runit. I can attest to its speed and stability, though the package selection si limited, early days. It’s influenced by Arch, so packages aren’t a year or so out of date for the false pretense of greater stability, as with some distros (most updates are security and bug fixes).
for security, simplicity, speed and stability, consider trying weston or i3 with qt5 programs and runit. syslinux is also lighter and easier to configure than grub.
I wish you all many happy bash sessions.
Why the Russian ships near Australia?
I would be interested as to what ‘liberal’ means to Russians.
Phoney or fake this is the one which at least makes clear the relationship of the images of the two planes.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/11/brand-new-flight-mh17-bombshell-russia-releases-a-satellite-image-that-could-solve-the-mystery-3060968.html
I had difficulty making visual sense of the two others I saw.
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