Moveable Feast Cafe 2016/03/29 … Open Thread

SysATI on March 29, 2016 · at 11:14 pm EST/EDT

OK… Here’s your first post…
Exactly the type of “post” you would make in a French café :)

Hi Saker…

I’ve read your European rant the other day and agreed with you for the most part.
I just watched the German Erdogan video and laughed my heart out :)

But the reason I’m writing is not that…
It is the two videos below that I watched today that made me realize something very important.

La fin des Ottomans 1
La fin des Ottomans 2

For non french speakers, it is a documentary made by ARTE, the French-German PBS-like channel. It describes the end of the Ottoman Empire and the reason why Central Europe and the Middle East are in the sh… they are today : the absurd partition of the Empire made by the French-British-German and Russians, driven only by their own interests and not at all by the ethnic or geographic realities of the territories/people concerned.

To summarize the video in one sentence, the chaos in the Middle East is just the long ending story of the fall of the Ottoman Empire. 100 years have passed, but the decisions made then still have a very profound impact on all of us today.

And that leads me to one observation… From your European rant and most other writings, I am picturing you as a deeply Russian (culturally) and Christian (religiously) eropeano-russian-american-world citizen… And I’m sorry to say that, but it bugs me :(

Why ? Because if one the brightest mind of our time (this is not a compliment, just a simple fact. You are intelligent enough to want to be informed and moreover want to share and help others understand what is really going on and I greatly respect you for that) is still defining himself mainly by some thousands years old mythological beliefs the WARS WILL NEVER END !

What I’m trying to say is not at all “hey I’m Muslim, you’re a dumb Christian and my prophet is better than yours”…

I was born from a french-christian mother and a turkish-muslim father. So either one of them had to accept the other’s supremacy or religion had no place in their home. Luckily for me, they chose the later and so I never had to go to a church or a mosq in my life.
I just buried my mother in a christian cemetery and my father will definitively go to a muslim one when the day comes.

As a result I see myself as someone who was lucky enough not to have a religion imposed on him when he was a kid. My parents were not atheists, just quiet and respectful of the other. I could’ve chosen to embrace one or the other religion after becoming old enough to think by myself. I chose not to choose…

Instead, I chose RESPECT. So I am hated by everyone who believes in anything.

I am absolutely and positively convinced that publicly this is the ONLY thing we should believe in. And the more we continue to define (publicly) ourselves as being muslim, christian, jewish or whatever, the less likely it is for all those wars to end one day.

Peace will finally come one day, but only when “the other” will be allowed to be “whatever he wants”, not just legally, but in our own hearts. When bashing someone because of his beliefs/culture will be morally/culturally unacceptable, and only then, will wars end, not before :(

Of course what I am saying goes much deeper than just religious beliefs.
If you want to be gay, fine by me. If you like seafood and I eat cats and dogs, it’s ok. You are a woman and want to go naked in the streets ? So what ? It’s your life and no one should force you not to get a cold because it is “morally unacceptable” or jump you “because you obviously asked for it”…

So called “minorities” (i.e. people not exactly like the rest of the population) are and have always been the very ones enabling populations to evolve. “Culture” or “morals” are and always have been the only thing that made that more difficult to happen. (today you are a minority and the mainstream media is the norm, does that make what you say wrong ? No, on the contrary… But you will be a minority until you become the norm and some other emerges into being “the one not to listen”)

To be happy, to finally be able to go outside without fearing anything will only be possible when “rejection” becomes immoral. And unfortunately we are far, faar very far away from that today, even in the most developped “western” countries :(

This is where we were: ancient caveman

And this is where we are some thousands years after that… modern caveman
Unfortunately I don’t see much of a difference :(

I am sure that you must be happy because it’s Easter and all and I’m happy for you too.
But I’m also sad for the rest of us because as long as you keep being happy for Easter, I mean publicly, I want to say “innocently” or even “proudly”, then there will be some crazy who will blow himself up happily somewhere too.

The only “decent” way for you to be happy should be to be “sorry to be happy” and keep quiet about it as much as you can.
…until it becomes socially immoral to be “shocked” or “hurt” because of someone else’s opinion or action. And that will take a hell of a long time to become real :(((

The ONLY “bemol/damper” I would put to that is regarding children (and mentally ill persons). As long as someone is not able to think by himself, then some legal boundaries are useful and necessary and the state must protect them. But appart from that, why do we even need states or nations to tell us what to think or what to do unless it is to steal from most to empower some ?

Sure, somebody has to build schools and roads, but do we really need a “nation” for that ?
If we hadn’t needed one, I wouldn’t have a crazy sultan running my own… (that sentence only is worth 4 years in jail here :)
And would gladly be ruled by your president (I’m sure this one is worth at least 40 years :)))

If the Quatari “nation” wasn’t in a race with the Iranian “nation” to export first “its” gas to European “nations”… If a megalomaniac ruler didn’t want his “nation” to become once again an “empire”… millions of people wouldn’t be on the roads today…

As long as some are offended because they “are not European” or the others keep on being “proud because they are XYZ” how can you possibly think that wars will end someday :(

I hope this way of thinking will not lead us to a dull Huxleyish world with everyone minding their own business and refusing to see (or show) their differences to the others. But between a dull and peaceful world and one with “proud” people leading implacably to want what others have, the choice is not very difficult to make :(

So, no, I’m not proud to be half european, or sad not to be half-european. But I’m 100% ashamed to be human that’s for sure :(

And I’ll be even more ashamed when I receive zillions of hate mail written by people who are so deeply into their own beliefs that they will never begin to start to understand what I’m desperately trying to express here…

Was it Jesus or Mohamed who said one day “aimez-vous les uns les autres” ??? (love one another) That was Jesus, Mohamed said: “You will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another.” Which is pretty much the same thing… But who cares ? I sure don’t… I don’t need them or the fear of burning in hell to try to be a decent human being…

Today, if I was a prophet, I’d say “you will not be in peace until you accept each other” which in my book translates into “stop being so damn proud of what you are”. There are 196 countries in the world today, how can you be so sure yours is “the best one” ???!!!
And that can be said for anything that you use to define yourself… Religion, sexual preferences, or whatever you can think of. Some people, somewhere are not doing what you do and are as proud as you are… And as wrong as you are !

There are people who are different than you are and they have every right to be. So, who are you to say that you are “right” and they are “wrong” ? Because there is “more of you” and “less of them” ? Yeah, see the caveman picture above… I’m right because I’ve got larger biceps than you do…

Saker, I’m sorry, The most beautiful Orthodox Christian churches of Russia certainly means something to you, but as long as it does, death and misery will follow it very closely, I’m unfortunately sure of it. If need be, 2.000 years of history proves me right more than enough :( And it saddens me to see articles like that one here because, if for someone like _you_ it is important enough to be publicly claimed, how can one be surprised by what happened recently in France, Belgium, Turkey and hope that it will end one day ?

2500 years ago Socrates said “I know that I know nothing”. Until everyone religion is that one, religions shouldn’t be mentioned anywhere… And as long as everyone doesn’t understand that, we will keep killing each other :(

Sorry, I’m definitively not a writer but I had to led it out anyway.
I hope you won’t be “hurt”, “angry” or think that I somehow disrespect you, your culture or your religion :( And when I say “you” I of course mean all the readers of this comment.

I was a poor kid growing up with several religions and several countries. Today I have none and I really have a hard time understanding why it is be so important “to be something” for most people… Can’t you just “be yourselves” ?

I definitively am a minority and should be bashed in plublic for opening it up !!!

Anonymous on March 30, 2016 · at 12:02 am EST/EDT

Maybe this will help touch your soul?

Published on Dec 14, 2015
“Who Am I? Why Am I Here?”
A conversation with Professor Needleman at TNS: The New School at Commonweal, 10/9/2015.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkF_bVh7MJg
- SysATI on March 30, 2016 · at 1:33 am EST/EDT
  
  Thanks for your comment, but “soul” ?
  
  How would you react if someone told you that this word doesn’t mean anything for him ? And to touch my “brain” I really need something different than a guy telling me that mankind “was created” and has a “purpose” or any such nonsense.
  
  “Memento homo quia pulvis es et in pulverem reverteris”… I don’t need a purpose in life to be fair/honest/decent/or whatever to be a “good man”…
  
  And I’m not asking you to help me or my soul to see the light, I’m asking you to simply accept the fact that you might not be the only one with the truth. Or that your truth can very well not be the only one, the good one or the best one. So instead of trying to change me, try to accept me the way I am.
  (if you’re right, good for you and too bad for me rotting in hell for eternity)
  
  If you can’t make that effort (you, a Saker reader) how can you expect some uneducated dumb guy to bury his wife alive under those black clothes or explode himself in a subway ?
  
  I said I would be sad to read the reactions to my comment, I wasn’t mistaken, unfortunately :(
  - Anonymous on March 30, 2016 · at 2:52 am EST/EDT
    
    How would/do I react?
    It is of no consequence for me either way.
    The Saker channel is simply a communication device and you may in fact not be the specific target of a post or response — but rather others may benefit through observing the interaction.
    
    Re: “And I’m not asking you to help me or my soul to see the light, I’m asking you to simply accept the fact that you might not be the only one with the truth.”
    
    I made no claim whatsoever. I simply shared a recent recorded video of two old men talking and two pieces of piano music played by the wife of one of them. The rest is your own story.
    
    I think your tone displays your malaise. And whether you believe, or not, that the word “soul” means anything real there is a place in our language for this word to which some people ascribe special meaning. If this is not the case for you then you are not alone I dare say — I’m sure through their actions that Tony Blair, GWBush, Clintons (x2) and Oz’s little Johnny Howard etc and any number of other notable sociopaths also share your view on this word.
    
    They are ‘gods’ in their own minds and I’m sure sleep well at night (with the right medications) knowing their mendacious and murderous actions mean nothing to anything ‘higher’. Blair is perhaps a slightly different case as he seems to have run to the Pope in Rome for an indulgence policy just in case 1 million souls (formally living in Iraq) will hold him to account in due course.
    
    Your challenge, and those of your disposition, appears to be to differentiate yourselves from these pathological types by virtue of your actions and value systems. And I’m not your judge. If you choose no one then you choose yourself — otherwise, you are likely on the same path as the Bush & Clinton crowd.
    
    If you have listened carefully to the video, you may have noted that one of the five essential questions raised was: “To whom /what am I accountable?”
    
    So, perhaps you find this easy to answer?
    
    If you wish to interest me any further in your blogging efforts then perhaps you can explain what you understand by “justice” in this world given the likes of what we see around us with a criminal class of ‘exceptionalist’ overlords?
    
    As John Pilger notes (below) recently, censorship follows guidelines — real or imaginary.
    Perhaps, without drawing attention to your own egoism, and its complaints, you could explain any difference between the quality of the discussion in the video and what Pilger had recently censored from his article by alleged ‘free’ media thinkers?
    
    “Trump is a media hate figure. That alone should arouse our scepticism. Trump’s views on migration are grotesque, but no more grotesque than David Cameron. It is not Trump who is the Great Deporter from the United States, but the Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama… The danger to the rest of us is not Trump, but Hillary Clinton. She is no maverick. She embodies the resilience and violence of a system… As presidential election day draws near, Clinton will be hailed as the first female president, regardless of her crimes and lies – just as Barack Obama was lauded as the first black president and liberals swallowed his nonsense about hope.”
    
    Cynicism may be an antidote to propaganda poison, but it is no basis for policy and action to improve the situation of concern. Have a great day! And good luck with your own internal censor.
    
    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/337590-trump-clinton-censoring-pilger/
    - Brother Anon on March 30, 2016 · at 1:48 pm EST/EDT
      
      Hey Anonymous at 2:52 am, and SysATI, I couldn’t help but overhear your conversation. I wanted to join it, but I heard this kid from Hibbing, Minnesota is going to be the live entertainment here at the Resto…….Cafe. I’ve heard him before. He’s pretty good! He’s setting up for his first song now. Could I join your conversation after his first session ends, and he takes a break. There are a few empty tables inside. Care to join me? I don’t think you’ll regret it:
      
      “Come gather round people, wherever you roam,
      And admit that the waters around you have grown,
      And accept it that soon you’ll be drenched to the bone.
      If your time to you is worth savin’
      Then you better start swimmin’
      Or you’ll sink like a stone,
      For the Times They Are a Changin’…………….
      
      https://youtu.be/e7qQ6_RV4VQ less than 3 minutes, full song.
      
      There’s some Truth in that boy, isn’t there? Let’s see what he sings next!
      
      “Oh, my name it ain’t nothin’
      My age it means less,
      The country I come from
      Is called the Midwest.
      I was tought and brought up there,
      The laws to abide,
      And that the land that I live in
      Has God on its side.
      
      Ah, the history books tell it,
      They tell it so well:
      The cavalries charged
      And the indians fell.
      The cavalries charged,
      And the indians died,
      Ah, the country was young,
      With God on its side.
      
      Several more verses than this early film clip: https://youtu.be/cAgAvnvXF9U
      
      NOW HERE WE COME:
      
      I’ve learned to hate the Russians,
      All through my whole life.
      If another war comes,
      It’s them we must fight.
      To hate them and fear them,
      To run and to hide
      And accept it all bravely
      With God on our side.
      
      But now we got weapons
      Of the chemical dust
      If fire them we’re forced to
      Then fire them we must
      One push of the button
      And a shot the world wide
      And you never ask questions
      When God’s on your side
      
      Through many dark hour
      I’ve been thinkin’ about this
      That Jesus Christ
      Was betrayed by a kiss
      But I can’t think for you
      You’ll have to decide
      Whether Judas Iscariot
      Had God on his side
      
      So now as I’m leavin’
      I’m weary as Hell
      The confusion I’m feelin’
      Ain’t no tongue can tell
      The words fill my head
      And fall to the floor
      If God’s on our side
      He’ll stop the next war.
      
      Looks like the kid is taking a break.
      
      My two cents worth is that SysATI fears the same thing the kid just finished singing about (in my opinion….but what do you think?): MIND CONTROL.
      
      Anonymous, I agree with a lot of what I overheard you say. But I understand our friend here too. Me? I am not religious. I don’t think God is on my side. But I think we are all part of a larger Self than any of our small selves. That’s my take on this conversation.
      - Anonymous on April 01, 2016 · at 12:33 pm EST/EDT
        
        Brother Anon, sure happy to share ‘2-cents-worth’ anytime, … cruise on round sometime …
        
        But I’m mostly out the back doing the dishes in the ally with Brother Ali …
        
        “Uncle Sam Goddamn – Brother Ali”
        http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22y3v_brother-ali-uncle-sam-goddamn_music
        
        [If you are not familiar with the lyrics you can get them in this version – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzQ3yjpYZis ]
        
        Note: the main you tube version (3,558,537 hits) has been butchered by some nancy.
        
        elsi on April 01, 2016 · at 1:36 pm EST/EDT
        
        Simply great, thanks for the link.
        
        In the same line:
        
        “Zero-Sum Game: The Savage Vision Driving a Terror-Ridden World”
        
        http://www.globalresearch.ca/zero-sum-game-the-savage-vision-driving-a-terror-ridden-world/5517173
        
        “(…) You can see how this primitive belief plays out in domestic politics too. More and more, politics across the Western democracies (and other nations as well) are revolving around the question of who should dominate in a society — or more specifically, who feels their domination over society is being threatened. This dynamic is driving nationalist movements across the board. In the United States, it is expressed in the panic and dismay felt by an increasing number of white people — especially but by no means exclusively white males — that their “natural” domination of American society is slipping away. They want to “take our country back,” or else they’ll be overwhelmed — dominated — by a flood of unworthy others: African-Americans, Mexicans, Muslims, homosexuals, women, etc. This self-pitying fear has been rife in right-wing discourse for decades, and has now burst into the open, and into the mainstream, with the likely nomination of Donald Trump as presidential candidate of a major party.
        
        Again, the dynamic of domination is key: since nothing exists outside this dynamic, since there is no other way, then one group MUST dominate the others. The idea of equal citizens working, living, and sharing together is a fantasy in this worldview. If blacks or immigrants or women or gays are perceived to have gained a small share in the national life, then that share must have been “taken” from the dominant group. And since, in this view, domination is the goal of all groups, since it is the organizing principle of human life, then those upstart groups are not just seeking a fair share of society’s bounty and freedoms and opportunities; no, they are actually aiming to subjugate the dominant group. In this extremely limited worldview, life is always a zero-sum game. To give someone else more opportunity means less for yourself, and your kind. The freer someone else is, the less free you are. There is only so much to go around. You will find more sophisticated and empathetic worldviews on grade-school playgrounds, or in wolf packs.(…)”
        
        Bro Anon on April 02, 2016 · at 9:58 pm EST/EDT
        
        Hey Anonymous, that was gritty But the glasses and dishes were clean. So bring yourself and Bro Ali back, any time:
        
        That’s one gritty mirror he be holdin in our faces.
        But the answer is within, and in no other places.
        
        (O’Leary get back here, where the **** you been? I got no time for rhymin’ with rappers, that’s YOUR job, man!)
  - Katherine on April 01, 2016 · at 1:59 am EST/EDT
    
    Re “Maybe this will help touch your soul?”
    
    That is a pretty stupid comment and response to the post.
    I mean, who is Anon or anyone to tell the Poster that his soul needs to be touched, or even, going by what Sys just wrote, to think that “soul” type talk is welcome, relevant, or appropriate.
    
    Sounds damned sanctimonious and patronizing to me.
    Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous, nurse your own soul and don’t bother with putting out “soul prescriptions” for others.
    Katherine
    - Anonymous on April 01, 2016 · at 11:39 am EST/EDT
      
      Some Southern Soul (all mix up) for the punitive pronouncing ‘anti-sky-guy’ type gal who’s late to the cafe party … would seem to need some help understanding the purposes and tones of the Saker’s site. And there’s the image of the ‘Egyptian Mary’ on the blog’s side bar!
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n3C6l4JqD4
      - elsi on April 01, 2016 · at 12:29 pm EST/EDT
        
        (…) “Healthy wolves and healthy women share certain psychological characteristics: an acute perception, a playful spirit and a high capacity for affection. Wolves and women are sociable and inquisitive by nature and are endowed with great strength and endurance. They are also extremely intuitive and fervently care for their offspring, their partners and their herd. They are experts in the art of adapting to ever-changing circumstances and are fiercely loyal and brave.
        And yet, both have been persecuted, harassed and falsely accused of being greedy, cunning and too aggressive and less worth than their detractors. They have been the target of those who not only want to clear the forest but also the wild territory of the psyche, smothering the instinctive to the point of not levaing trace of it. The depredation exerted on wolves and women by those who do not understand them is surprisingly similar.(…)
        
        (…)”A healthy woman is much like a robust wolf, full, as powerful as the life force, life-giving, aware of its own territory, witty, loyal, constantly moving. Instead, the separation of wild nature causes women’s personality to thin, weaken, and acquires a spectral, ghostly character. We are not made to be a puny creatures with fragil hair, incapable of hitting a jump, chase, give birth, and create life. When the lives of women remain stagnant and filled with boredom, it’s time for the wild woman to emerge; It is time that the creative function of the psyche flood the delta.
        
        “Women who run with wolves” by Clarissa Pinkola Estés
Razor on March 30, 2016 · at 12:20 am EST/EDT

You call for tolerance and respect of the other and yet you hold out your atheism at the true faith that all should embrace? As you rightly say, Christ called on us to Love one another. As a Christian, I remember as a child learning the ten commandments, and being told that they could be reduced to two; Love God, and and Love your neighbour.

You say that Mohammed said something similar regarding loving one another. Given these facts then, surely the problem is not with Christianity or Islam, but with the failure of people to faithfully observe the fundamental tenets of their respective faiths?

As for your remarks regarding bashing someone because of their culture, at least in so far as this relates to different cultures arising from mass immigration, I have a different view. As I see it, if I am welcomed into the home of another, I feel it is my obligation not to give offence to my host, and to be appreciative of my hosts graciousness. Further, I believe I must not do that in my hosts home which would contest his right to set the ground rules within his own home. I must respect his or her right to live in their home as they wish and not seek to impose my values on their refuge. I am not compelled to enter the home of my host, and furthermore, if having accepted his hospitality, I don’t like his rules or culture, I can always leave again. The onus in on the immigrant to fit in and integrate. If they don’t like that, they should stay home or else move elsewhere that is more in keeping with his own beliefs/values.

Despite all of our apparent modernity and sophistication, man is still largely a tribal creature. We like to associate with those who are like us. Birds of a feather flock together. When you attempt to create a multi-cultural society, you set that society up for friction and conflict. There are of course societies which are multi-cultural and of mixed religions which are at peace with themselves, but this has been achieved over long periods. Russia comes to mind as one example, and in fact Iraq and Syria, despite being made up of different faiths and tribes, were at peace with themselves until the AngloZionists chose to smash them up. Of course, these were secular regimes which placed no restrictions on the religious of cultural practices of their peoples. Note I use the term regimes in a neutral way. For all of Saddams evil, I believe that Iraq was a better place under his regime than it has been since.

As a Christian I have no problem with those who practice a different religion or none, as long as they realise, when they come to my country, which historically has been Christian for many centuries, that we are a Christian culture, even if some may say we are a post Christian society. Our legal system and cultural ethics sprang from our Christian faith, and so still largely inform our cultural behaviour. So sorry, but if a migrant comes to my country and does not wish to accept the dominant values of my society, then he would do better for himself and for my people to stay where he is.
- SysATI on March 30, 2016 · at 2:33 am EST/EDT
  
  Razor, thank you for having taken time time to write such a long comment…
  I am not sure I’ll be able to answer properly but I’ll try…
  
  You call for tolerance and respect of the other and yet you hold out your atheism at the true faith that all should embrace?
  No, I’m simply saying that we have tried to live together for thousands of years AND kept our differences to be very much what rules/defines us. And as long as we keep doing that, I can’t see any reason why things should change. So no, don’t leave your faith if you don’t want to, but how can you expect to see the end of those wars if you define yourself as a “christian”.
  
  I am not “an atheist”, I simply don’t care and don’t think it is an important part of who I am. So as long as everyone continues to behave like you do, and since they are different religions, they will necessarily be frictions… and wars :(
  
  “Mathematically”, there aren’t many solutions. Either we get used to wars, or get rid of what is causing them… And religion, was only part of what I was talking about, nation was the other. If you are a “russian christian”, if this is what defines you, how can you expect an iranian muslim (for example) to understand you, or even accept to live next to you ?
  
  I am proud to be christian and russian, de facto means “I deny you the right to be anything else”. (note: the important word here is “proud”…)
  But if you didn’t care so much about that, I guess you wouldn’t mind me being an indian hindoo or an atheist frenchman and we could get along much better ?
  
  And we’re back to what I was saying. Until it becomes illegal/socially unacceptable to discriminate others for their religious beliefs, sexual preferences, or whatever make them who they are, there is no other solution than to “keep quiet”. Secularism is only the beginning, but it is a necessary step. And the only way it’ll become the norm one day is if at least some people start by acting like that.
  
  For the rest of your comment I fully agree with you.
  If you go to someone else’s house, you live as they do no questions asked.
  
  In the past, the Almohad Caliphate, The Ottoman Empire and Lebanon up to a recent date were all (maybe not perfect but) multi-cultural – multi-religious countries. But the solution chosen was “live next to each other but don’t mix” which is not really a solution. Russia is so big that being multi-cultural is normal and is not a problem. When the “others” are thousands of miles away from you, it is easy to accept their presence. Living together AND being different is what makes things hard.
  
  And the only way I can see this ever happening is if we don’t care about our differences, or we don’t talk about them because it is socially unacceptable to do so. The only way to achieve that starts by allowing everyone to believe in whatever they want and (legally) force the others to accept that fact. So legal secularism that’ll (hopefully) crawl into being a social norm.
  
  Am I dreaming, maybe, you’re the one who can answer that not me :)
  - TooLegit2Quit on March 30, 2016 · at 9:13 pm EST/EDT
    
    @ SysATI:
    
    “But the solution chosen was “live next to each other but don’t mix” which is not really a solution. Russia is so big that being multi-cultural is normal and is not a problem. When the “others” are thousands of miles away from you, it is easy to accept their presence. Living together AND being different is what makes things hard”
    
    If you allow me, this is not directly connected to your comment, but it’s still related to it.
    
    –
    
    OK, so let’s crunch some basic numbers – because some people still don’t belive that a) overpopulation is a problem and b) population density isn’t a problem either. (because… refer back to point a)
    
    So let’s compare the EU (soon to be renamed ES of A – European States of America) and the actual US of A.
    
    EU total territory in sq miles (bearing in mind that particularly, in the Northern EU countries, vast areas of their territory are rather actually uninhabitable on account of being too cold. Same as with Russia)
    
    EU = 1.67 million mi²
    
    EU population (and again, bearing in mind that they like to fiddle with the true figures because… they like to hide how many illegals are actually in the EU. So hence this is probably an gross underestimate)
    
    EU Population = 742.5 million
    
    –
    
    US [mainland] in sq miles = 2,959,064.44 square miles [that’s almost 3 million mi²]
    
    US population = 318.9 million (2014)
    
    —
    
    Do really I need to point out the blatantly obvious?
    
    The US has twice the territory the EU has and less than half the population of the EU.
    Yet there are plenty of bleeding-hearts on both sides of the pond claiming that the EU has plenty of room, resources, tax-payers money, housing, social services, jobs, (etc) to take care of these “desperate” “refugees.”
    
    Sure!
    
    How many Syrian genuine refugees did the rich Gulf Monarchies take?
    How many the US took in, for that matter!?
    
    -TL2Q
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on March 30, 2016 · at 4:31 am EST/EDT
  
  @Razor on March 30, 2016 · at 12:20 am UTC
  
  “””””You call for tolerance and respect of the other and yet you hold out your atheism at the true faith that all should embrace? “””””
  
  SysATI has the right to be an atheist. And it is bs that he demanded all others to “believe in not having to believe”, only by having made this choice for himself.
  
  As a general reminder, because you don’t sound as if you ever came across some of my posts:
  
  /about-the-east-europeans-whom-i-have-expelled-from-europe/#comment-223710
  
  /about-the-east-europeans-whom-i-have-expelled-from-europe/#comment-223705
  
  I rather enter my spaceship now, than having to deal with such man in the cloud believers.
  - ioan on March 30, 2016 · at 6:55 pm EST/EDT
    
    mein guter kerl Martin,
    
    SysATI is pursuing hie views and Razor his views.We all have our views also.We as individuum are unique.Nobody is more or less than the other just in Spirit.If you like,”Ich bin ein Berliner” in more sense as Kennedy put it then.Certainly he had no idea of the real life in East.
    Spaceship ? maybe Däniken is right,I’m open minded,why not ? Last year I was in Bern and I had a very long and interesting discussion on this issue.One of the theme of that discussion was what if Jesus was an alien because he did said ” I’m not from this earth”.Well,just between us,I don’t want to provoke any skirmishes on this topic from others but I am open : en garde,mais enfants !
    - SysATI on March 31, 2016 · at 12:26 pm EST/EDT
      
      Ioan,
      
      to be able to “pursue his view“, one needs two things…
      
      Two things that are not “natural” today, and what I am asking for is for them not to be just natural, but mandatory & state sponsored at first, then culturally & morally imposed afterwards.
      
      To be able to think, one first needs… To be able to think, which means understand and compare, which also means education and free speech.
      
      If you don’t learn about Marxism, how can you understand and like or dislike the liberal economy ? Same goes for religion. If you don’t know what is to be a Shia, how can you prefer to be Sunni / Christian / Buddhist or nothing ?
      
      And you’ll never know what it is if the state/culture/society/morals doesn’t “force you” to accept to live next to “the other” and respect their beliefs as they accept yours.
      
      It’s only when you realize that the world is very big and diverse that you can lower the pride you have in being XYZ or believing in ABC… If the others are different than you are and happy about it, they can’t all be wrong, so being the way you are might not be the “only” way to be ?
      
      Once you’ve realized that, you just shut up. You are who you are, they are who they are, and none of that can be a problem that leads to war…
      
      That was the reason of my initial post. If a truly international/multi-cultural individual like the Saker still proudly defines himself as “Christian and Rusian”, there is very little hope for my expectations to become real one day…
      
      Which sadly leads to “wars will never end” :(
      
      The lone wanderer :)
ron on March 30, 2016 · at 1:13 am EST/EDT

SyaSATI: My friend, you should NOT be “bashed” in public–you should cheered till tears fall from the glazed eyes of those who entertain religion. Clinging to a belief system is older than civilization itself!
Perhaps it held Neolithic tribes together-perhaps not. Today? It spells DOOM! A human DNA error. A tragic-folly.
And keep “opening it up!”
- Peter AU on March 30, 2016 · at 1:51 am EST/EDT
  
  Sometimes it seems that religion, apart from some of the cult groups like the Wahabbi’s, is not so much the problem, but political ideology that is the main problem. Political ideology, greed ect.
  I look at the US form of capitalism as an ideology that has absolutely no guide line in ethics or morality, the only principle being that money brings happiness and power.
  
  It is interesting to observe systems in very old cultures that have come about over millennia, and comparing them to modern ideologies that somebody has dreamed up at some point and said this is how a society should be.
  - Martin from S.E.B. on March 30, 2016 · at 2:17 am EST/EDT
    
    Hello, agreed. The problem is: Religion is politics from day 1, for 1000s of years.
    Add to that fanatics and bigots who interpret “their” books in radical ways, independently of politics and independently of any single brain cell.
    
    Believe me, they _are_ are problem.
    Then politics come into play again, because such people have always been _used_ for enforcing policies.
    
    That’s the entire point with men-made so called religions (aka sects).
    At the moment Islam is where Christianity was 1000 years ago.
    
    Unless we peacefully and fully Stalinize this planet, it will continue like that forever (or until nobody is alive anymore).
    - SysATI on March 30, 2016 · at 2:57 am EST/EDT
      
      “Unless we peacefully and fully Stalinize this planet, it will continue like that forever (or until nobody is alive anymore).”
      
      Well… One guy tried to do exactly that and miserably failed… His name was Atatürk and his legacy is slowly being torn appart by our beloved Sultan Erdogan 1st.
      
      God, I’m so proud not to be Turkish :)))
      - Martin from S.E.B. on March 30, 2016 · at 5:18 am EST/EDT
        
        But didn’t it work quite well for almost a century?
        We need 2.0 versions … :)
    - ioan on March 30, 2016 · at 6:30 pm EST/EDT
      
      Hi Martin,
      Peacefully ??? that will not happen too soon.Maybe if a new Hitler is born on the communist side,he will make the job.Stalin was too fulled with paranoia and he had no idea of the military campaign.
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on March 31, 2016 · at 3:05 pm EST/EDT
        
        don’t write me again
        
        p.s. you fell victim to a liar and mass-murderer who never played with open cards, but at least he succeeded in tricking _you_
    - TooLegit2Quit on March 31, 2016 · at 8:19 pm EST/EDT
      
      @ Martin:
      
      “The problem is: Religion is politics from day 1, for 1000s of years [..]”
      
      You’re not wrong. But there’s an answer to that conundrum: ‘the separation of Church and State.’
      
      Is not rocket science, is it? Religion is religion, State is State! End of!
      The Church is free to preach (provided there’s no hate-speech in their message) to their flocks, the State should be impartial (like the Justice System should be… but it ain’t. But that’s a topic for another day) and should be looking after all their citizens in equal measure without judgment.
      
      Why is this so hard to understand?!?!?
      
      –
      
      And I know this is just a play of words [hence not really related to the above point I brought up]; ‘Separation of Church and State’ turned into: ‘Separation of Church and Skate’
      
      The key part of the song is when he asks: “I want conflict! I want dissent!
      I want the scene to represent
      Our hatred of authority,
      Our fight against complacency!”
      
      [Lyrics included on the vid description]
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYLqvfckh-U
      
      –
      
      ^ It’s just that I had that playing on my head while reading your post.
      But at the end of the day, it makes me wonder why rebellious rock [punk-rock included] is being suppressed while things like gangster-rap or hip-hop are promoted constantly.
      
      But in any case, I’m sure you’ll love this other one, Martin (make sure to read the lyrics ;-) )
      
      Atheist Peace – Bad Religion
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3wpHBZV47U
      
      -TL2Q
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on April 01, 2016 · at 2:30 pm EST/EDT
        
        Hi TL2Q,
        
        many thanks.
        
        Sorry, no time.
        I’m still working on my defence against forced german NATO-Propaganda-TV (which I don’t watch since 1998).
        
        Here everybody has to pay for this “democracy tax”.
        It is not an April 1st fools day joke but the bitter truth.
        
        The German Reich has never been dissolved, but the current so called Federal Republic of Germany even sees itself as continuation of it (being identical to it).
        This doesn’t come from me, but from the German constitutional court and German Bundestag itself:
        
        https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/2015_06/-/380964
        
        https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bundestag.de%2Fpresse%2Fhib%2F2015_06%2F-%2F380964&edit-text=
        
        That’s the only strategy to pay that propaganda fee: http://staatenlos.info/
        
        In Poland all the western MSM ranted against the new Polish government:
        
        Polish media laws: Government takes control of state media
        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35257105
        
        But the situation in (West and now unified) Germany has _always_ been like that, only much worse. Nobody of the MSM is ever admitting let alone reporting about that (of course not).
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on April 01, 2016 · at 2:33 pm EST/EDT
        
        Err, correction.
        Should read:
        
        That’s the only strategy *NOT* to pay that propaganda fee: http://staatenlos.info/
- SysATI on March 30, 2016 · at 2:43 am EST/EDT
  
  Ron, my friend,
  
  I’m not sure you should “open it up” so loudly…. At least not in public :)
  Or you will definitively end up joining me :
  http://media.finedictionary.com/pictures/221/20/5341.jpg
  
  I cannot agree with you and ask for tolerance… I do think the way you do, but I cannot say it because as Voltaire (never really) said “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”.
  
  It would be disrespecting their faith and/or nation. And if I ask for the right to express my opinion, the least I can do is respect theirs…
  - ron on March 31, 2016 · at 5:07 am EST/EDT
    
    Sysati: I really wasn’t clear enough. I’m not saying one should criticize a person’s religion, per se.
    I would note however, that many religions have millions, even billions of people who are followers or “good soldiers”. The religions that have over a million members, for example, have within them a ruling hierarchy with many charismatic “leaders.” They function as an organization–even corporations. Non transparency is a given. And Obey!
    The general agreed upon number for psychopaths among humans is about 1 per hundred. Do the math. Psychopaths have no empathy, they lie, they lust for power, etc. And of course if you complain about a given sect in the wrong place you lose your head.
    Regarding deep searchers for truth; many have been suggesting through the millennia that “it” is to be found by looking profoundly deep into one’s “self.”
Anonymous on March 30, 2016 · at 4:59 am EST/EDT

You’re right. You are definitely not a writer.
The Saker on March 30, 2016 · at 7:24 pm EST/EDT

Dear SysATI,

Thanks a lot for your interesting and heartfelt comment. If you allow me to be a little tongue-in-cheek, what you are saying reminds me of the words in the beautiful song “Imagine” by John Lenon:

Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…

Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…

A beautiful vision indeed, but one based on a fantastically mistaken set of assumption: than Man is inherently good, and that all our problem come from religion, nationalism, the state (per se, intrinsically). This reminds me of the communists who explain all evil on class and exploitation, or gun control people who blame violence on guns, racists who decry miscegenation, religious people who blame it all on secularism or any other number of people who explain away the apparently always recurring problems of our world by The One Single Cause (all in caps). The cause of evil is not external, but internal, it has its roots in our own fallen nature and it is precisely when we try “only be ourselves” that it creeps out of us with a special vengeance.

Also, when write “who are you to say that you are “right” and they are “wrong”” you as missing the point. While I can only offer my opinion and express my deepest conviction about that, you, but the very fact of asking this question, are, in fact, affirming that you are right and others are wrong. As soon as you affirm *anything* you are doing the exact same thing as the most dogmatic intolerant bigot you can possibly imagine. Yes, your *arguments* (the contents of what you say) might be different, but by the mere fact of *saying* are are doing the same thing.

Furthermore, the very concepts of “right” and “wrong” are absolutely meaningless unless there is an absolute “system of reference” allowing you define the concepts or right and wrong. The absolute is necessary for the relative and the relative without absolute is just meaningless. So when you say I don’t need them or the fear of burning in hell to try to be a decent human being… you are absolutely mistaken as the very notion of “decency” has absolutely no inherent meaning by itself.

Though this has been tried many and many times, there is no way to duck the tough, hard, questions, unless, of course, we call self-deception an answer to them. I fully understand and agree that not only religion, but cultural identity can, are, and have been, misused and used to justify anything and everything and its opposite. But in that sense, to reject religion because of all the falsehoods which have been upheld by it is as immature and illogical as rejecting astronomy because we used to believe that the sun revolved around the earth was flat or medicine because we used to believe that snake oil could cure everything.

At the most, I suppose, one can proclaim that “I see no evidence for any God” and conclude that those who do are wrong. The price to pay for that is to believe that the universe, life itself and everything in contains is totally meaningless and accept that concepts such as good or evil (or even love) have no real meaning. I think that this is only possible for a person who has never really, *truly*, loved.

The rest of us know, feel deep inside our heart, that love is real and that it is good, inherently and profoundly good and that the word ‘good’ does have not only a real meaning, but an objective reality. Some of us even come to realize that the world is really an illusion and that the only reality out there is “good(ness)” which, understood correctly, is just another name for “God”. Once that is understood, then the only issue remaining issue is to discern His/Her/Its will and His/Her/Its will *for us* since we are not “just somethings” but the creatures of a Creator. That binds us in a relationship not only with our Creator, but with every single human being on the planet.

Now ask yourself: is this core belief is a source of evil or good in our history and civilization? Is such a realization more conducive to hate or compassion, prejudice or sympathy? Does it place a higher or lower premium on every single life and individual which was ever born?

Kind regards,

The Saker
- Anonymous on March 31, 2016 · at 7:31 am EST/EDT
  
  “Furthermore, the very concepts of “right” and “wrong” are absolutely meaningless unless there is an absolute “system of reference” allowing you define the concepts or right and wrong.”
  
  Oh, so the big guy says “don’t eat the apple or else” and it’s absolutely “right”
  
  Give it a rest.
  - The Saker on March 31, 2016 · at 3:12 pm EST/EDT
    
    Please don’t try to bring down a logical argument you apparently don’t understand to a Kindergarten-level paraphrase. If you have nothing intelligent to say, just read and try to understand. Or, if you prefer, go back to watching TV.
- SysATI on March 31, 2016 · at 3:12 pm EST/EDT
  
  Sake,
  
  Thanks for your thoughts…. Deep and lengthy…
  But we are at the café, so we have plenty of time don’t we ? :)
  
  First, yes, I just LOVE “imagine” and true, I am only dreaming, but my guts tell me that this is the way things will eventually evolve if the human race has any future at all.
  
  “A beautiful vision indeed, but one based on a fantastically mistaken set of assumption: than Man is inherently good, and that all our problem come from religion, nationalism, the state”
  
  This is definitely not the assumption I am making, and that is exactly why I start by asking to the state to impose secularism and respect for others beliefs on the people. Only then, hopefully, it’ll be considered “normal” to accept the others as they are. Once we finally realize that there are others ways to be, then maybe the color of our skin or what is in our head/heart won’t matter so much…
  
  Individually, men are not “naturally good”, so if we don’t have a state/law/culture that imposes unto us to accept the other, it won’t happen naturally :(
  
  You’re right about the fact that “decency” by itself doesn’t mean anything. But with a christian AND muslim background (plus various readings) I can assure you that my way of being decent would be accepted by anyone whatever their beliefs. So, no, I don’t need an “absolute” reference. In this day and age, with the knowledge I currently have, that’s the best I can do and that is what I’m hoping for everyone else.
  
  You are advocating that the Christian way of seeing things, love, etc is good. That’s fine by me…
  Muslims don’t use love but fear as a way of forcing people to do pretty much the same things: the Jewish 10 commandments. But in the end none of it works :(
  
  I’m a little older than you are, and although I admit I did not especially look for it, I’ve met only ONE religious man in my whole life. A black-muslim homeless ex-cab driver in DC whom I shared a burger with at McDonald’s. That really isn’t much don’t you think ?
  
  All the rest, which ever their religion was, were simply the way they are because of family cultural-habits. So if it doesn’t work (and the zillions of deads over the past centuries kinda prove that it doesn’t) maybe the solution isn’t to believe that we’ll burn in hell if… or that we were chosen to… or that Jesus came to save us one day, but to actually SEE the others around us live their lives and realize that we do not have the answer.
  
  I am sorry but I simply cannot believe that “I was created” or that “I have a purpose”. Not for a single second especially when looking at the sky at night. But that doesn’t mean that I cannot have sympathy/empathy. What I see has always been, and still is, a bunch of sheeps believing in what they do because they have to, legally/culturally/socially. Of course some of them are sincere in what they do, and I am convinced you are.
  
  The poor Afghani woman all dressed in black who claims that it is her choice is also convinced that she is who she thinks she is. But you and I know that if given the choice, she would certainly not be dressed they way she is.
  
  The only religion I would be willing to believe in would be the one telling me not to believe in it (guees I’m definitively French :). Once I have believed in all of the others, and only then, if I chose so, I would come back to follow which ever precepts it has.
  
  And that religion does exist today and it is called education and free speech… To me it is the only one that doesn’t automatically lead to a compact “pack of wolves” ready to take on the others.
  
  All I’ve said about religion up to now is also valid for culture/nation. A bunch of the same “whatever” will always be more willing to bang the head of the lonely one who isn’t part of the group. And as soon as there is some kind of an organization, there will always be some guy who will use it for his own agenda. You can call it religion and the Pope, nation and the president or whatever you want it is the exact same thing: power.
  
  And the only way I see not to have that happening forever is to be able to think by ourselves…
  
  One last little remark about your “loving religion”… One of my saddest memories dates back to when I was living in Brooklyn. In my (little) street there were two churches facing each other. I guess in both of them there was some little guy with his black dress saying “love one another, Jesus, LOVE, bla bla bla”… The only difference between the two guys was that one was black and the other white and obviously you weren’t loved that much if you had the stupid idea to go the church of the wrong color :(
  
  Please do believe that this doesn’t make me feel “he he, I’m right, these are a bunch of stupid fools and I am right not to be part of them” but instead I truly feel sorry for real believers like you seem to be…
  
  If you’re happy to be part of that crap (or the cousin of that crap), if that makes you a better man, that’s fine. But please accept the fact that one doesn’t have to believe in what you do to be as good as you are…
  
  If you can do that, then you must also realize that the guy with his black beard in Syria doesn’t think any differently than you do. He is “right” too, he follows “God’s orders” too, he has a “purpose” too, and when he blows up in the Bruxelles subway, he automatically goes to heaven :((((
  
  So back to were I started… The only way I can see not to die in a subway bombing is to accept the others the way they are, realize that we do now own the truth which will leads us to finally get rid of our pride… and subsequently theirs.
  
  You are ending your comment with a question: “is this core belief is a source of evil or good in our history“. I personally believe that _any_ mandatory, and as a result widespread, belief is a source of war and misery, even if it is love and history is unfortunately the very proof of where it leads to that no matter what you could say.
  
  Now if you allow me, let me ask you a “religious” question (and please don’t answer or we’ll be here for ages :)
  
  Why is it that both Islam and Christianity have both “killed” their Gnostic parts ?
  i.e. the people who believed that God had to be found inside each of us and not in some hierarchy of mollahs, priests, cardinals, popes, patriarchs, caliphs, etc
  
  Once God is inside of you, “you” are God, everyone is God, then you simply cannot fight “the other” since he is God too and subsequently “yourself”… And you can obviously not fight against yourself…
  
  The Muslim Sufis are a small sect (hated by both the Sunnis and the Shias) who profess that God is in each and everyone of us and that a religious man has to first know himself to discover God.
  In Christianity, the “parfaits cathars” were pretty much saying the same thing but much much earlier Platon said: “Gnothi seauton”, know thyself.
  
  How come all religions have very opportunistically decided that that wasn’t a good thing for a believer ? :(
  
  Guess I’m not just a French atheist, I’m an stateless godless anarchist :)))
  (and no, I will not add “and proud of it” even if it kills me :)
  - Brother Anon on March 31, 2016 · at 5:35 pm EST/EDT
    
    SysATI, Saker, ron, elsi, Anonymous 7:31 am, Peter AU, Martin from SEB, Razor, loan,2LTQ, and finally, Razor, I believe you have set a Moveable Feast record (12 including me) for a café discussion initiated by only 1 person, SysATI!
    
    Given that there was at least one Aussie in on the heated discussion, and much disagreement remains, it’s amazing to me that we 12 haven’t “gone outback” (or whatever the down under expression is for settling the matter by throwing chairs, bar stools and swinging fists……).
    
    I am reminded of “the most interesting man in the world” and his commentary on this precise social phenomenon:
    
    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bhc1QfZCcAAfI4s.jpg&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/_holly_renee/status/438878046263582721&h=403&w=403&tbnid=Ts3ziG8lXUaOJM:&docid=R3uIUPWtGqEhJM&itg=1&ei=KFv9VqaTN4ramAGLhbmoAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwimx_PBtuvLAhUKLSYKHYtCDhUQMwgnKAYwBg
    
    There, I thought some levity lightening the mood around here might be in order!
    
    Now, that the mood is lightened, back to business (another image):
    
    not working. Mod on Duty
    
    OOOOPS! I’m ducking under a table now!
    
    Whew!! Before Dylan in his 20’s is proven right and Lennon proven full of right brain imbalance New Age BS (I agree with Saker, sorry SysATI and Peter J Antonsen…..Oh, sh*t, I’m going outside for some fresh air, and to wait till the cops arrive…….).
    
    In all seriousness, I have something to say, which is that IMHO you’re all right and all partially wrong. Including myself!! But before I elaborate, let me post this first, before life gets in the way and delays this 48 hours or more.
    - Bro Anon on March 31, 2016 · at 6:10 pm EST/EDT
      
      Second image was supposed to be: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/43/4b/a7/434ba76420fdde20705788f2e05b7028.jpg
      
      “I’ve never been insulted by hateful satanists for not believing in their devil…..
      
      only by loving Christians for not believing in their God!”
      
      Postscript intended to be added in less than 12 hours, “God willing!”
    - SysATI on March 31, 2016 · at 6:12 pm EST/EDT
      
      You’re totally right…
      The Godwin law should have been applied here a long time ago !
      
      Guess we can call that a success for the new Saker Café :)
      - Bro Anon on March 31, 2016 · at 8:51 pm EST/EDT
        
        SysATI, thanks for the affirmation, but I wouldn’t go quite that far! (totally? No, I doubt that…….. lol.)
        
        It kind of robs me of the 3 words that I have found are the most profitable for me to think and say, namely: “I was wrong!”
        
        I had my non-humorous add-on all ready in my head, but now Saker comes back through these tables of ours serving up more food for thought, and I think I’ll need to reconsider what I was going to type. If I have time later today, that is……Saker, I’ll take that in a box, with me……… Tschuss! “I’ll be back….”
  - The Saker on March 31, 2016 · at 8:03 pm EST/EDT
    
    But with a christian AND muslim background (plus various readings) I can assure you that my way of being decent would be accepted by anyone whatever their beliefs. So, no, I don’t need an “absolute” reference.
    
    Okay. Let’s say that I got the most pleasure in life by raping babies. Can you *LOGICALLY* explain to me why this is wrong? And, while we are at it, could you please define the concept of “wrong?
    
    believe that _any_ mandatory, and as a result widespread, belief is a source of war and misery
    
    Okay. Surely you believe that 2+2=4. You certainly believe that “all religions have very opportunistically decided that that wasn’t a good thing for a believer”. Do these beliefs of your results in wars and misery?
    
    The poor Afghani woman all dressed in black who claims that it is her choice is also convinced that she is who she thinks she is. But you and I know that if given the choice, she would certainly not be dressed they way she is.
    
    You are apparently quite capable and willing to hold very strong beliefs even though you have exactly zero evidence to support them, especially in this case where such evidence cannot gathered *by definition* (short of reading the mind of every black-clad Afghani woman on the planet).
    
    There are barn-sized holes in your logic. You also make A LOT of sweeping statements and use very categorical terms and expressions. All of which is fine by me as long as you realize that your choice of beliefs is not rooted in empirical data and logic.
    
    Cheers!
    
    The Saker
    - Anonymous on March 31, 2016 · at 10:42 pm EST/EDT
      
      “Can you *LOGICALLY* explain to me why this is wrong?”
      
      It depends whether you believe the meta-ethic position of moral theory e.g:
      
      “A significant portion of moral theory derives from meta-ethics (one of three branches of ethics) that does not believe that moral knowledge exists or that words such as moral or good can even be defined…[]…The logic of meta-ethics leads to the idea rape is neither right or wrong.”
      
      or not e.g:
      
      “The naturalistic fallacy, a popular meta-ethical theory does not think one can derive moral conclusions using non-moral facts. But, in fact it can be reasonably said that ethical systems evolve over thousands of years, strongly influenced by behavioral facts, observation and human experience. For example, if there are facts of public record showing an increase of accidents when alcohol is involved while driving, one cannot logically lead to the moral conclusion that one ought not drink alcohol and drive. Logic says a moral position cannot be concluded from the facts, but reason says otherwise.”
      
      These quotes from http://www.evolutionaryethics.com/reason.htm
      
      In other words your belief in one approach (or the other) is an opinion and therefore relative.
      
      There is no absolute.
      
      1 + 1 = ?
      
      “…[]…But we can’t philosophize about the underlying truth without acknowledging that underneath everything else, math relies on human intuition, one way or another.
      
      So if math isn’t necessarily absolutely true, why has it been so successful at describing the real world? Excellent question.”
      
      quote from http://www.gfredericks.com/gfrlog/17
      - plainsman on April 01, 2016 · at 11:07 pm EST/EDT
        
        well I had to pick a spot to come into this endless mobius about re-ligon., the above seems appropriate. I kept wondering for days why someone more scholarly than I hasn’t mentioned the word, existentialism, Sartre and Camus, Simone de Beauvior for the ladie’s side, et al. It’s a long time since I was learning from them and i guess it’s gone out of style; the gist is that we do not need a mythical omniscient to know how to act morally. Might be that in any primitive tribe long ago, there was instinctive understanding and consensus that the actions or behavior of Lurch over there just wasn’t acceptable; too much, like he raped a baby or stole granma’s food, he’s taken care of. So I don’t draw conclusions if the rest had a built-in conscience or just fear of sanction. or maybe were just raised right. it is a fact organized religion has caused unmitigated hell.
        i
        thanks everybody. especially you elsi
        
        elsi on April 02, 2016 · at 11:56 am EST/EDT
        
        “Libre te quiero” ( “I want you free” ) by AMANCIO PRADA
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmfHzM9vaiE
        
        Bro Anon on April 04, 2016 · at 2:55 am EST/EDT
        
        Que bello! Gracias Elsi………..Vaya con Dios!
        
        It’s actually more spiritual than all this religious mud wrestling……without calling it “God” or “No God”, or anything, for that matter.. You’ve made your point, with me at least.
    - SysATI on April 01, 2016 · at 12:01 am EST/EDT
      
      Saker,
      
      If I was so sure of holding the “one and only truth” I wouldn’t be “wasting my time” here talking to “stupid people unable to understand my highly sophisticated thoughts” would I ? :)))
      
      The reason I am here everyday is that, like most of us I guess, I’m trying to understand what is so wrong around us and try to find a way to fix it.
      
      What I see around me is that people keep killing each other. It has been like that for ages, millions of lives have been wasted, we are on the verge of colonizing space and kids are still dying if hunger down here.
      
      So clearly believing in “something” hasn’t worked. Forcing people to believe in them even “because it is good” gave the same result. So why not trying to stop doing that for a change ?
      
      Again here “something” here can be a religion or “my great country”, for me it’s the same bullshit with some guy at the top of the pyramid telling others what they’re supposed to do. And unfortunately it takes guts “not to be like everyone else”. It’s so much easier to be lazy and go along with the crowd…
      
      And for me the only way out, is knowledge. When you know that others do not believe that the world is flat, that for them the earth revoles around the sun, you can ask yourself if what you’ve been told is the truth. But before you can ask yourself that question, you have to be either Galileo or live next to a guy who can tell you that “his” world is round. Obviously there aren’t that many Galieo’s around, so what other choices do we have than coming here to listen to whhthe others ? :)
    - SysATI on April 01, 2016 · at 12:20 am EST/EDT
      
      Saker,
      
      If I was so sure of holding the “one and only truth” I wouldn’t be “wasting my time” here talking to “stupid people unable to understand my highly sophisticated thoughts” would I ? :)))
      
      The reason I am here everyday is that, like most of us I guess, I’m trying to understand what is so wrong around us and try to find a way to fix it.
      
      What I see around me is that people keep killing each other. It has been like that for ages, millions of lives have been wasted, we are on the verge of colonizing space and kids are still dying if hunger down here.
      
      So clearly believing in “something” hasn’t worked. Forcing people to believe in them even “because it is good” gave the same result. So why not try to stop doing that for a change ?
      
      Again here “something” here can be a religion or “my great country”, for me it’s the same bullshit with some guy at the top of the pyramid telling others what they’re supposed to do. And unfortunately it takes guts “not to be like everyone else”. It’s so much easier to be lazy and go along with the crowd…
      
      And for me the only way out, is knowledge. When you know that others do not believe that the world is flat, that for them the earth revoles around the sun, you can ask yourself if what you’ve been told is the truth. But before you can ask yourself that question, you have to be either Galileo or live next to a guy who can tell you that “his” world is round. Obviously there aren’t that many Galieo’s around, so what other choices do we have than coming here to listen to what the others have to say ? :)
      
      Now back to you comment. I’m happy for you if you enjoys babies that much. And “logically” no, there is nothing wrong with having a great time with them. But as I said “in this day and age and with my current knowledge” I would consider it wrong. There was a time in ancient Greece when parent were supposed to educate their kid including sexually. It was their duty then, now we call that sick behavior, incest and it is legally reprehended. So “wrong” has indeed changed over time and will continue to do so. Today we eat animal flesh. Maybe in the future it will be seen as bad as incest who knows…
      
      Saker, you’re right I don’t know if the Afghani women like the way they are dressed but it doesn’t matter. I really like you too much to upset you, and unfortunately this “virtual café” won’t ever replace a real one in Paris. You certainly have better things to do with your time than answer me so I’ll stop here. Thanks for talking to me and sorry for being “bold” and barn sized dumb :)
    - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on April 01, 2016 · at 1:53 am EST/EDT
      
      Sorry that I don’t have time to relax in this entertaining cafe.
      
      @ Bro Anon: Really had a good healthy laugh at your pictures/jokes :)
      
      @ The Saker:
      
      I know that without the Zionists Isalam might never have developed into a problem for Afghanistan (as we heard from Hillary herself).
      {add 200 more pages here}
      
      But to shorten it: Simply google for “kabul communist times” and click on [images]: https://www.google.de/search?q=kabul+communist+times&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjOvoLmqOzLAhULVSwKHdn3CVcQ_AUICCgC&biw=1280&bih=885
      
      Or try the search string “Kabul before after”:
      
      https://www.google.de/search?q=kabul+communist+times&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjOvoLmqOzLAhULVSwKHdn3CVcQ_AUICCgC&biw=1280&bih=885#tbm=isch&q=kabul+before+after
      
      Such as:
      
      This Before And After Image Of Afghanistan Is Hard To Believe
      http://www.businessinsider.com/before-and-after-afghanistan-image-2013-2?IR=T
      
      Now tell me which glasses you use if you cannot see any difference to now, muslim times.
      Or let me know if you need any glasses.
      - Martin from S.E.B. on April 01, 2016 · at 2:15 am EST/EDT
        
        @ The Saker:
        
        Women’s rights in Afghanistan
        https://www.amnesty.org.uk/womens-rights-afghanistan-history
        
        Afghan girls before Muslim nightmares:
        https://www.amnesty.org.uk/webfm_send/135
        http://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Screen-Shot-2015-11-07-at-1.26.11-PM-1.jpg
        
        Students at the Kabul University hail the 1978 ‘communist revolution’ in Afghanistan. The ‘revolution’ triggered infighting between two factions of the country’s largest communist party and was only ‘stabilised’ by Soviet forces that entered Kabul in 1979.
        
        http://i.dawn.com/primary/2015/09/55fa762b064a5.jpg?r=1145326542
        
        Now it is your turn to show me pictures of Afghan women taken now under Islamist enlightenment …
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on April 01, 2016 · at 2:20 am EST/EDT
        
        Soviet troops enter Kabul, 1979 (masses are cheering and welcoming them!)
        http://i.dawn.com/primary/2015/09/55fa76734a605.jpg?r=513833070
    - TooLegit2Quit on April 01, 2016 · at 10:03 pm EST/EDT
      
      @ Saker:
      
      “[..] Okay. Surely you believe that 2+2=4. You certainly believe that “all religions have very opportunistically decided that that wasn’t a good thing for a believer”. Do these beliefs of your results in wars and misery?”
      
      Well… for one thing, it doesn’t have JUST to be war, does it? Whether is civil-war or other wise, there are plenty of other forms of human misery religion brings….
      
      I’m from a country that is not a theocracy but the X-tian lobby has a massive influence on our government.
      
      My very own sister got “herself” pregnant by a guy I always wanted to clock right in between his eyes. And with good reason… he left her to her on devices when my niece was about a year old. Got together with someone else, then bred with said someone else too, while refusing to pay any maintenance whatsoever for my niece.
      
      No worries… this story has a happy ending: he eventually ended wrapping himself around a lamp post in a horrific car accident. LOL!
      Best news I ever had… good riddance to bad trash!
      
      Never the less… the point being is that my sister (as slow as she is, and she is, trust me :/ ) got robbed from a future because some d!ckedhead got her pregnant before she was 20 y/o, and subsequently, never made himself responsible of the consequences.
      
      AND she wasn’t allowed to get a fresh start, because… Oh! The X-tian lobby dictates that every ‘sperm infection’ counts, women’s lives don’t matter once she’s with-child she’s not a human being anymore, she becomes an IT. An incubator with legs and a pusle…
      
      Where ever you folk stand on this divisive issue, and as much as I care for my beautiful niece (not beautiful because of her father waste-of-space DNA, btw), it doesn’t detract from the fact that people’s lives (and their children’s lives too) are being dictated by religion, their lobbies, and the pressure they exert on some weak-willed – or namely: corrupt – countries.
      
      -TL2Q
      
      PS: And before anybody tries it… don’t even go there.
      Don’t even try to use my sister/niece story to prop-up whichever side of the argument you’ll be siding with.
      
      Just in case it escaped most of you: my point was, that oh yes indeed, religion, when allowed to have too much power, do have an influence, a very REAL influence on people’s lives.
      
      And just so you know… I’m of the opinion, that they categorically shouldn’t! [Have such influence]
      Not by de facto [and/or] nor by devious laws anyways…
- Katherine on April 01, 2016 · at 2:09 am EST/EDT
  
  I think the real problems of religion reside in the monotheistic “guy-in-the-sky” religions.
  they are all warrior religions that privilege males over females and send men off to fight an d prove that their guy is the One Guy so the Other Guy has to be the False Guy.
  
  That is what needs to be given a rest. It is a total myth, and a destructive one.
  
  What sustains all and keeps all alive is only the Earth. Healthy Balanced Earth is the only possible ultimate religion. Love and respect and gratitude and empathy for the Earth and every living being on it. Forget the Guy in the Sky looking down and judging and punishing and rewarding. And the False Guys, too. They are all teh same Big Guy. We must grow up and judge ourselves.
  
  katherine.
  - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on April 01, 2016 · at 11:26 am EST/EDT
    
    @katherine
    
    Well said, you are not alone.
elsi on March 30, 2016 · at 11:12 pm EST/EDT

@SysATI,

I mainly agree with you and also I also think that states should be secular, to thereby officialdom does not represent any race, creed or religion, but at the same time to all. Anything else seems unfair. I also think that religion should be something intimate that does not transcend to the outside, to practice each one at home or in places enabled for that purpose or where each one thinks it can satisfy its spiritual needs.

Even though my education has been Catholic, I do not practice any religion today, but know almost all, a little at least, and respect them all. I could travel a bit, even once in your father´s country, Turkey ( so beautiful ), and I could find good people in all places and of all religions and also bad people, but mainly good pople. Which I do not respect is fanaticism, people who say they are very religious and keep giving me me classes on kindness, compassion, or any other human virtue, people who think themselves better than others and especially people who use religion to obtain benefits above others, be them women or other people with different religions or ideologies.

Like you, I think the most important thing to live in society is respect, understanding your rights end where they begin thos of the other, that the world belongs to all human beings, borders have been drawn by men usually by spurious interests, and anyone who earn their own bread has the right to live his life where he choices or circumstances have taken him if he does respecting others and the basic rules of coexistence.

And then, if besides we love each other, what to say, Eden on Earth, that would be the ultimate.

So, do not feel sad, you are right, you sound like a very tolerant person, and this only can be because you love your fellow humans, and so, have for sure that if God exist, also loves you, even when you do not declare yourself the most pious or the paladin of any religion.

You must fight for the society you think is the fairest and where you feel more comfortable.

For a secular Turkey!

More Atatürk will come!

I do not know if you like Tarkan, I do ( sometimes I am a bit kitsch, what we are going to do with it ), I knew of him when I visited Turkey and like some of his songs.
This one seemed to me very funny and happy, the people danced in circled when it sounded that year….

Cheer up!

“Tarkan – Gül Döktüm Yollarına”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhT1Z0qXZ2c
- SysATI on March 31, 2016 · at 5:59 pm EST/EDT
  
  Elsi, thanks for your support…
  
  But I don’t think I need any because it would mean that with your and some others’ help, things could change. Well, not in my lifetime I’m damn sure of that…
  
  “You must fight for the society you think is the fairest and where you feel more comfortable.”
  You know any (very) remote island somewhere ? Because here 1% of what I wrote would put me in jail for years to come, and I really am not ready to fight for that…
  
  I leave that fight to younger ones who don’t realize that they are fighting for a lost cause :( Preferably spanish and named Don Quixote :)
  - elsi on March 31, 2016 · at 11:46 pm EST/EDT
    
    But, comrade SysATI, why do you think so, as if you were really old!
    
    Look, I am not so young as you could imagine, and even when you say you are a bit older than The Saker, you are still young enough to fight, in fact, young people need people like you amongst them because you can testity historical facts that they have not been able to live and give them a sense of prudence and moderation.
    
    Look, just this afternoon, I went visitng my old auntie and was viewing the sunday suplement of the diary ( well, I have not read it since I inform myself mainly by the net ) and do you know what I had to see?
    Well, there was Sümmeye Erdogan, being introduced as the more probable from the Erdogan family to be in charge in Turkey in the future since she has studied Politics and Sociology in the West. Also they were saying that “she promotes a patriarcal order in society and so she thinks that women must dedicate themselves to maternity”.
    This when she has already 30 and neither have any child nor is confined in the house raising any. To go to piss and take no drop.
    
    Well, SysATI, I do not know how much you love Turkey, from my part, I love all places I have traveled to and the people I met there ( except some military scum-men in Ankara with whom my friend and I had what could be consider a “diplomatic incident” if we had denounced it ), but, tell me, I do not know how women walk around in Istambul and other cities there right now, but do you really think that there are many women in Turkey who could share the vision of this Sümmeye, who all of us here could hear in those taperecorded telephone conversations how her father sent her to Bilal´s house with instructions on how to get rid of the millions of dirty money?
    She is really finished as politician, at least might be.
    
    I really doubt that women in Turkey are willing to be confined in kitchens and houses and start covering any centimeter of their skin, as goes Summiye over there trying to mean that she is the most demure.
    What would be desirable is that all these Erdoganes and Erdoganas woul be more demure with Turkey´s people money and with Syria´s oil and antiquities and promoting jihadist terrorism.
    
    So, as I see, things in Turkey are not only to change in your life time, but rather when you least expect it.
    Therefore, take your sneakers and start training to run in front of the police, please, because your government will fall ( yes, comrade in the MIT reading this blog, and you must do something to acelerate this process ), and you are needed to build the new secular Turkey.
    
    Sümmeye, if she likes so, to the kitchen!
    
    http://images0.tcdn.nl/buitenland/article23515611.ece/BINARY/u/Sumeyye+Erdogan.jpg
    - SysATI on April 01, 2016 · at 12:34 am EST/EDT
      
      Elsi,
      
      [mod edit]!
      
      If I come here it’s especially NOT to hear about the Erdogan family :))))
      
      Turkey is a weird place. Most of it is like in the middle ages and women look like Sümeyye. But part of the larger cities are not any different than Paris or NYC. I am lucky enough to live in one of them and I hope that either Obama and/or Putin will save us from Erdogan or that I’ll die before my neighborhood turns into Saudi Arabia :(

Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on March 29, 2016 · at 11:16 pm EST/EDT

I really don’t want these MUSLIM freaks.
If you don’t understand that, watch this to the end:

Nigel Farage “Europe Is Burning” Part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3VwUpjsbmw

Sergey on March 29, 2016 · at 11:55 pm EST/EDT

@ Martin from Soviet East-Berlin

Excellent video. Says it all.

“I really don’t want these MUSLIM freaks.”

Neither do I. I don’t want them and I don’t like them.
- Martin from S.E.B. on March 30, 2016 · at 3:56 am EST/EDT
  
  Privet Sergey,
  
  regards to Austria (am I correct?)
  Well, we need to apologize and we need to allow them to rape our nations, otherwise we can only be racists.
  
  It is not my fault that “my” american Berlin government is co-destroying their countries, following US occupation orders.
  
  Millions of EU citizens including myself did protest against the Iraq invasion:
  
  protest against iraq war 2003
  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=protest+against+iraq+war+2003
  
  But just as protesting against the EU or against the Euro or against the Lisbon teaty or against GMO food or against the ESM or against TTIP – the establishment is simply labeling us as “conspiricy theorist idiots”.
  
  I fight the system as best as I can.
  Sure, too many of my fellow EU citizens are too ignorant etc etc etc.
  That is indeed true and makes me angry and sad.
  
  Nevertheless the Muslims cannot all come to Ger-MON-ey, while the locals don’t have enough jobs for themselves and while most migrants (90%) are not even qualified enough to perform the most basic tasks, such as saying a sentence in their destination country’s local language.
  If somebody wants to be a radical Muslim, stay where you came from, rather than turning Europe into a Khalifate.
  
  I’m not joking.
  If humanity stays alive for another few decades, exactly this is the only possible mathematical result.
TooLegit2Quit on March 30, 2016 · at 1:30 am EST/EDT

@ Martin from Soviet East-Berlin:

“I really don’t want these MUSLIM freaks [..]”

Well… I would never dare tell you how you ought to feel about this issue.

But, me, personally, I feel there are two ways to look at this;

1- and I know…I know… is a repetition from what we always hear all the time: “they’re not all that bad.”
And of course they’re not! Not every single last one them are hopeless lunatics.

But I’m a big fan of – for lack of better term – ‘moderate’ Muslims, those who actually question the more extreme parts of their creed.

Recently, I’ve found an even better branch, but only by the tragic death of a true man of peace (so there’s nothing there for me to be happy about this :( )

–

Facebook page celebrates over killing of peace-loving Muslim shopkeeper as murder suspect appears in court
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513888/Facebook-page-posts-Congratulations-Muslims-message-peace-loving-Islamic-shopkeeper-stabbed-death.html

–

It turns out he belonged to “the Ahmadiyya community, which promotes peace and tolerance but has been persecuted by members of orthodox Islamic sects in Pakistan”

Or in other words; the Ahmadiyya community is group of Muslims who seek to reform Islam and embrace the actual peaceful parts of its message.
As a result, they’re more or less considered infidels/heretics by pretty much all other Muslims.

On my point 2- I‘d say – is this something Putin said or it’s an old Russian say? I forget now – Anyhow… it goes something like this: ‘You can’t force people to love/like you.’

Presumably, it works both ways, meaning: you can’t be forced to love others either.

So if you don’t like them. Then, you don’t! And you shouldn’t have to explain yourself why, unless you want to.

–

Overall, my ‘take away’ from this issue is that at some point a universal reformation of Islam needs to happen.

Same way when Christianity reformed at one point or another and stopped being the stuck-up sadistic a-holes they used to be hundreds of years ago.
Point being; are Christians still burning witches at the stake?
Do I need to ask what plenty of Muslims are still doing – to this very day – to people THEY consider unacceptable (!?) Hmm?

To be perfectly honest with you, Martin, I cannot believe we’re supposed to be in the year 2016. If I was a visiting alien, and if we discount all the fancy tech… I’d venture we’re in the 18 hundreds at best.

-TL2Q

PS: (about the vid) Oh, I particularity “enjoyed” the part where “rapefugees” are sleeping on tomb stones…

….but apparently we only ought to feel disgusted about the decadence of western girls in bikinis on top of Indian Pyres taking selfies of themselves or whatever…
(Oh! I haven’t forgotten that one, no)

Never mind that the locals are probably ‘defacing’ themselves by chucking their dead on the river where they’re probably getting their drinking water from…
….all in the name of ‘tradition’ you understand :/

[Warning: Graphic Pictures]
http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/filthy-india-photos-chinese-netizen-reactions.html
- Martin from S.E.B. on March 30, 2016 · at 1:56 am EST/EDT
  
  Hey TL2Q,
  
  thanks for your long post.
  I personally know some of what you call “moderate” muslims. We have discussed it all up and down the threads.
  Maybe you saw what I think about religions, especially if practiced by bigots.
  
  And having no clock and no calendar I think – being an alien myself – that the 18 hundreds can only be 500++ years in the future.
  As for your fancy gallery: I unsubscribe from this wonderful planet and soon enter my spaceship again. I tried to help your species, but it is pointless.
  
  Major Tom – Peter Schilling 1983 (english version)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db64QW-rsz4

Babushka in Oz on March 30, 2016 · at 1:14 am EST/EDT

I have been busy in my kitchen over Easter cooking family treats … whilst here in Saker land there have been many great articles, discussions and debates.

So I am going to sit here at Cafe Resto, catch my breath, rest and read.

I particularly liked your ‘rant’ Saker (more please).

Waldo on March 30, 2016 · at 2:45 am EST/EDT

“I particularly liked your ‘rant’ Saker (more please).”

You are insatiable, Babushka :-)
mmiriww on March 30, 2016 · at 2:43 pm EST/EDT

I thought it was particularly incoherent and a life saver for the holidays. Seems it sure got many peoples goat so that’s a double feature.. If we can get some more of that to get rid of some of the stuck up self righteous pretentious folks all the better..

denk on March 30, 2016 · at 3:27 am EST/EDT

yanks,
your choice…
clinton or trump ?

same old , same old
head i win, tail u lose

Peter AU on March 30, 2016 · at 6:29 am EST/EDT

For a good laugh, read this Reuters “exclusive” article.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-supplies-idUSKCN0WW0DJ
When Vladimir Putin announced the withdrawal of most of Russia’s military contingent from Syria there was an expectation that the Yauza, a Russian naval icebreaker and one of the mission’s main supply vessels, would return home to its Arctic Ocean port.

Instead, three days after Putin’s March 14 declaration, the Yauza, part of the “Syrian Express”, the nickname given to the ships that have kept Russian forces supplied, left the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk for Tartous, Russia’s naval facility in Syria.

Whatever it was carrying was heavy; it sat so low in the water that its load line was barely visible….

Ike on March 30, 2016 · at 8:13 am EST/EDT

Recent events in Turkey have set my mind to wondering also.
Travel warnings by many countries against travel to Turkey.
US Military and Diplomatic staff and families withdrawn from Turkey
Israeli staff similarly.
CIA head visits Moscow.
One report I read is that it is in preparation for an ISIS false flag to justify Turkish and Israeli invasion of Syria. http://patriotrising.com/2016/03/29/isis-advanced-plans-attack-jewish-children-turkey-intelligence-sources-say/
My thoughts are that maybe The USA (NATO) are going to cut Turkey loose as Erdogan has become too much of a liability and this would enable an unfettered Russian reaction to any invasion attempt by Turkey. I am just guessing though.
Interested in what others think.
- Peter AU on March 30, 2016 · at 11:33 am EST/EDT
  
  Something brewing for sure. The interesting thing is that families of US personal are only being evacuated from southern Turkey- Incirlik, not from the north – Ankara area.
  - Anonymous on March 30, 2016 · at 3:24 pm EST/EDT
    
    Former CIA officer and political analyst, Michael Maloof
    
    RT: What do you make of the timing of Washington’s decision to pull out military families from Southern Turkey?
    
    Michael Maloof: There is no such thing as coincidence; this is all but incidental more than coincidental. The reason for it is that things are heating up, particularly with the Kurds. Erdogan is bombing the Kurds like crazy and the US is less than happy with that, and as a consequence I think it is politically a show of not being very pleased with Erdogan and the way he is treating Kurds, the journalists and in general human rights in that area. Secondly, Erdogan is really opposed to the US supporting the Syrian Kurds.
    
    The Incirlik air base, for example, which is going be cleared out of the almost 700 civilians, is being used in fact to supply the Syrian Kurds. And Erdogan is very upset with that. Also, both Erdogan and Obama are on opposite ends when it comes to the preservation of the Syrian regime: the US wants to go after ISIS; Erdogan wants to use all forces and military to topple the Assad regime. So, there is a variety of reasons why there is a problem with them. Right now, the problem of security is also accentuated a little bit, not only because of ISIS, but because of the continuing bombing of the Kurds. Also, the children on the Incirlik air base of US personnel they haven’t been able to go to school in weeks and they are on lockdown because of the security environment. So, I think they have probably decided to pull them out for now, saying that it was just coincidental. But there are a variety of reasons to send a message to Erdogan when he comes to the US.
    .
    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/337766-us-turkey-nuclear-summit/

elsi on March 30, 2016 · at 10:13 am EST/EDT

“Top Russian Politician Nikolay Starikov Calls for Congress of Opposition Parties of Europe”

http://russia-insider.com/en/top-russian-politician-nikolay-starikov-calls-congress-opposition-parties-europe/ri13621

It seems a Congress inviting mainly political parties´ leaders, I do not know if there are many political parties in Europe which mantain an open position for a different approach to Russia, except for particular individuals within these formations, and so, I am not so sure that the people´s mood will be tested. I do not know if it is open for people´s participation, but could be a good forum for people like us to meet, if not in this first edition, at least in the following.

Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on March 30, 2016 · at 12:50 pm EST/EDT

Part 2, see the shocking scenes in Sweden, at 05:25++ (GRAPHIC) :

Nigel Farage “Europe Is Burning” Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qn5ogliLSA

eimar on March 30, 2016 · at 1:28 pm EST/EDT

Someone tried to poison the water-supply in Crimea:

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://news-front.info/2016/03/30/novosti-kryma-neizvestnyj-pytalsya-otravit-pitevuyu-vodu-v-yalte/&usg=ALkJrhixTNmiQa_4PJufGXKJq-DB9mFXzw

Lind on March 30, 2016 · at 3:37 pm EST/EDT

Russia buys mucho gold

While all eyes are on the oil price and the ruble to dollar rate, the Central Bank of Russia has quietly been buying huge volumes of gold over the past year. In January, 2016, the latest data available, the Russian Central Bank again bought 22 tons of gold, around $800 million at current exchange rates, that, amidst US and EU financial sanctions and low oil prices. It was the eleventh month in a row they bought large gold volumes. For 2015 Russia added a record 208 tons of gold to her reserves compared with 172 tons for 2014. Russia now has 1,437 tonnes of gold in reserve, the sixth largest of any nation according to the World Gold Council in London. Only USA, Germany, Italy, France and China central banks hold a larger tonnage of gold reserves.

Notably also, the Russian central bank has been selling its holdings of US Treasury debt to buy the gold, de facto de-dollarizing, a sensible move as the dollar is waging de facto currency war against the ruble. As of December, 2015, Russia held $92 billion in US Treasury Bonds down from $132 billion in January 2014.

More significantly, after the Russian Central Bank Governor Elvira Nabiullina declared in May 2015 that she saw no need to buy all domestic gold production as the bank’s gold needs could easily be satisfied on the open market internationally, something that would drain ruble reserves, there has been an apparent about face. The Central Bank of Russia is now buying all domestic Russian gold output. Only after that is exhausted in terms of meeting their monthly targets does she import. Nabiullina stated recently, “We believe it is necessary in terms of creating additional financial cushion for the state in the face of such external uncertainties.”

That’s very significant as Russia, whose central bank gold reserves were robbed during the Yeltsin years in the early 1990, has grown to become the world’s second largest gold mining country after China. It’s a major support to her gold mining industry and to the ruble.

China and Kazakhstan too

Only slightly smaller volumes of gold are being bought in past months by China. And a significant monthly addition to its gold reserve is being made as well by Kazakhstan. For the past forty months, Kazakhstan, has been increasing its central bank gold reserves. Kazakhstan along with Russia is a member of the Eurasian Economic union along with Belarus, Armenia and Kyrgyzstan. Belarus ghas also been increasing its bullion reserves.

China bought another 17 tons of gold in January and will buy a total of another 215 tons this year, approximately equal to that of Russia. From August to January 2016 China added 101 tonnes of gold to its reserves. Annual purchases of more than 200 tons by the PBOC would exceed the entire gold holdings of all but about 20 countries, according to the World Gold Council. China’s central bank reserves of gold have risen 57% since 2009 acording to data the PBOC revealed in July, 2015. Market watchers believe even that amount of gold in China’s central bank vaults is being politically vastly understated so as not to cause alarm bells to ring too loud in Washington and London.

Kyrgyzsan, Russia and China are also members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. These Eurasian countries are all of them part of China’s mammoth One Belt, One Road Great Project, sometimes called the New Economic Silk Road project to criss-cross all Eurasia with networks of high-speed rails and to develop major new ports in the region to change the economic map of Eurasia. Last year China announced it was mapping the rail lines of the Silk Road to enable the Central Asian and Russian gold reserves now lacking infrastructure for development to become economically attractive to those countries.

The currencies of Russia, China and other Eurasian countries are moving to become as “good as gold,” a term applied to the US dollar some six decades ago. The fact that Russia also has an extremely low debt-to-GDP ratio of some 18% compared to 103% for USA and that of the EU Eurozone countries of 94%, of Japan more than 200% of GDP, is a fact that Western rating agencies engaged in the US Treasury’s financial warfare against the Russian Federation conveniently ignore. Russia has a far more healthy economy than most of the West that is declaring her a failed state.

http://journal-neo.org/2016/03/30/why-are-russia-and-china-buying-gold-tons-of-it/

teranam13 on March 30, 2016 · at 4:08 pm EST/EDT

This will make you cry:–a bio about the man who called in a strike on himself when he was surrounded.

http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/03/russian-rambo-killed-in-syria-left.html

ioan on March 30, 2016 · at 7:11 pm EST/EDT

this is the spirit of a real fighter,some of them (russians) have done this before in Chechnya and in the second world war.

teranam13 on March 30, 2016 · at 4:15 pm EST/EDT

re: for all those who put organized religion up as a “bete noir”, you might find this book to be of use:

The Religious Function of the Psyche by lionel Corbett

elsi on March 30, 2016 · at 9:02 pm EST/EDT

“1965 Indonesia: Eliminating Sukarno … and other 500,000” (cap. 31 of “Killing Hope” by William Blum )

Spanish translation by Blog del Viejo Topo

http://blogdelviejotopo.blogspot.com.es/2016/03/indonesia-1965-eliminando-sukarno-y.html

Peter AU on March 31, 2016 · at 1:29 am EST/EDT

The UN put together an un elected government for Libia which they immediately recognised as the government of Libya. Moon of Alabama did a piece on it the other day.
An article in the guardian today. Apparently the UN “government” has been installed in Tripoli and is expected to “call on international force to fight ISIS”.
I believe the islamist government is in Tripoli and the elected government was forced out and are based in Tobruk.
So the UN government has been installed in the city controlled by islamists to fight ISIS?
I guess the US decided to make their own Libyan government so they could get a legal invite into Libya?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/30/chief-libyas-un-backed-government-fayez-sarraj-arrives-tripoli

teranam13 on March 31, 2016 · at 1:58 am EST/EDT

When Chris Hedges stood up and said, “” I will not endorse Barney Sanders because I will not sell out the interests of the Palestinian people”, he set the red line for what remains of the American left. Below is an article from Counterpoint which reminds me of what would happen during the Anti Vietnam war movement days when an election loomed and arguments were held against launching mass demonstrations during ( G-d forbid) an election year. It is the same game of sell out and accommodation only 45 years later. Plus ca change…..

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/29/trump-and-clinton-censoring-the-unpalatable/

redmaple on March 31, 2016 · at 9:39 am EST/EDT

Hello Saker land. This is the most important US election in a century. If all goes well, we will have a clear choice between Right and Left (I won’t say capitalism vs socialism, because nobody clearly represents either). If Hillary or an establishment republican wins, then no change. If it is Bernie vs. Trump, the American people finally have an election with a choice. There are huge forces out there to stop us having this choice.
I always wonder since Ferguson whenever I see black people on tv if the police are going to raid the studio and shoot em up for real. I was pout of the country when Ferguson happened and really didn’t want to come back. Events since then have confirmed by feelings. But where is a good place to retire to outside the US where you can collect your pension and be free of the us hassles?
I figure it can only end badly if anybody but Hillary wins the election. If we elect a Salvador Allende or a Charles DeGaulle, the same forces would come into play. They don’t care whether its inside or outside the USA, the same policies apply. People should get wise. It was an established government program which is well documented responsible for the wave of assassinations.. the only undocumented part is the list of domestic usa victims. The “damned murder inc in the Caribbean” was who killed Kennedy. They couldn’t get Castro but they got him. You got to figure that out.
Do you read Counterpunch? They have great articles bashing all candidates. Their authors always disagree. But it is the only decent communist website I have been able to find. Descended from a column in the village voice by Cockburn and Ridgeway. wsws is sad.
On with the rant. I don’t know about Putin. Clearly better educated and informed and smarter than the USA leaders. The CFR and thinktankland have nothing on him. But I always wonder why he has not been able to crack the West in terms of propaganda. The soviets were masters of propagandizing the west. Apparently Putin was not in that part of the KGB.
Also, the anti-zionist thing does not really apply, because of the massive emigration from the ussr to israel, there is a massive economic and social link between the two countries. Russia will never be a leader of anti-israel actions like the ussr was with their support of Palestinians.
So we have to be realistic about this. The USA has to solve its own problems, Putin will not save us, he is working as hard as he can just to avoid the fate of Venezuela.
I am waiting for the shoe to drop. The right, on a worldwide basis and over history has been “anti-semitic.”. The right in the USA has recently been rabidly pro-israel. Sometime the dam is going to break and they will reveal their true colors. And it will not be pretty. I am opposed to israel’s policies, but i do not hate them or want to kill them. People who want to do both are pretending to support israel just for the money. People who don’t need the money or let their hate overwhelm their economics may soon come to power. Just saying. I’m not taking a position, just making an observation.
Then there is the troubling fact that neither Bernie nor Trump has been very good on Black Lives Matter. And neither of them has been good for women. I’ll support Bernie for the return of the new deal, but the rest of him, no thanks!

teranam13 on March 31, 2016 · at 12:44 pm EST/EDT

Very informative article from Ft. Rus on how Raqqa was seized by Islamists

http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/03/how-did-islamic-state-capture-raqqa.html

elsi on March 31, 2016 · at 10:27 pm EST/EDT

Did you know the “Dixie Chicks”?
I did not.
Read what is telling The Lince in his blog about these brave women:

“This band, follow it because it’s worth, are the Dixie Chicks, groundbreaking and provocative as they come, with that machine is Natalie Maines. They are Texan and you have to be very courageous to say what they said, that they were ashamed of their country when the US began the war of neocolonial invasion and occupation of Iraq in 2003 -Bush is Texan, so this meant a boycott in stations in half the US and that were made appeals to destroy their records. In many places they were flattened with a steamroller. They separated a couple of years ago and have now been reassembled. Good news. That said, enjoy.”

http://elterritoriodellince.blogspot.com.es/2016/03/autobombo-6-otra-vez-de-viaje-otra.html

An example for all, especially those of you Americans here who think there is nothing to do except voting for Trump. You must only have to have a couple of balls and, of course, be willing to lose something.
If everybody would leave its comfort and tidbits to do its part, clearly, we would not be as we are everywhere.

elsi on April 01, 2016 · at 11:05 am EST/EDT

Wow, this band is really good!.

Here is nother one:

“Dixie Chicks – Travelin´ soldier”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfgxznPmZM

Love American country music because tells stories of the common people.
- Bro Anon on April 01, 2016 · at 4:25 pm EST/EDT
  
  Elsi, you’ve made
  This Resto Cafe
  A bit more magical today.
  May its spirit not fade,
  Not fade, not fade…. away…..
  ……
  The second Dixie Chicks song Travellin Soldier is extremely beautiful. Your link says: “Sorry, not available in your country” when clicked on in the USA. But here it is for others, who are also here, before this Cafe closes, and we move on to another…………:
  
  https://youtu.be/6C0QS3IDyP8
  Travellin Soldier
  - elsi on April 01, 2016 · at 8:35 pm EST/EDT
    
    Oh, a pity you are not able to see it in the US?, because not only the song is extremely beautiful but also these women have a good live performance, deeply felt, and they played really well.
    
    Look if you can see this one:
    
    “Dixie Chicks – Cowboy Take Me Away”
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXMeMstVAhE
    
    P.S. Are you one of the O´Leary?
    - Bro Anon on April 02, 2016 · at 7:31 am EST/EDT
      
      No Elsi, I am not “Of the O Leary”.
      
      I’m the guy that got drunk at a nearby bar, heard Dennis spinning his rhymes and Dylan at one of these cafe’s and verbally abused him. He gamely defended himself and shifted to a little number play, and asked me if I was Brother Anonymous or Sister Anonymous.
      
      I said “Brother Anonymous” and added that his numerology was giving me a headache.
      
      But that wasn’t really true……it was just a bad hangover.
      
      But he disappeared, probably to lick his wounds, so I felt remorse, and googled “numerology” and bought two books on the subject from Amazon. Then I started thinking about Dylan again, after giving up on that bard circa 1980.
      
      I’ll never catch up to O’Leary on my Dylanology, since I am 36 years behind, but I brought out some of the really old stuff on this very thread, when the bard was in his early 20’s. Did you catch that here in the Resto Cafe, a few days ago, in response to SysATI’s religio/cultural angst???
      
      Hey Elsi, I think it’s just about closing time.
      
      I got a whole lot more to say,
      But could we save it for the next cafe??
      
      Actually, before we go, here’s one for the road, my most needed life’s lesson, actually came in Spanish, which I am fluent in, having studied about Atahualpa and such in grades 4-7, with native Spanish speakers:
      
      El amor de lejos
      Es para pendejos! ……………..Ain’t THAT the truth!!!!
      
      Hasta la proxima, Elsi. Ciao!
      - elsi on April 02, 2016 · at 12:37 pm EST/EDT
        
        “El amor de lejos
        Es para pendejos! ……………..Ain’t THAT the truth!!!!”
        
        Sí, es verdad.
        
        Nos vemos entonces, cuando abra el café!
- plainsman on April 02, 2016 · at 6:27 pm EST/EDT
  
  elsi: sending some links re Natalie’s dad Lloyd; I’ve been here around Austin(and lubbock) off and on 45 years, was at college w/ Ely, Hancock, Gilmore. Lloyd’s steel hero was Jimmy Day, dear friend and monumental player.YoutubeeeJimmy Day Oh Danny Boy and see if you can hold back the tears.
  http://www.lloydmaines.com/about-1/
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5e6L6yfBJM
  - elsi on April 02, 2016 · at 8:34 pm EST/EDT
    
    Oh, Thank you, plainsman, for this lesson on country music.
    Definitely I must travel to Texas, to hear this good music live, and now, I know that I must not miss Austin and Lubbock. :)
    - plainsman on April 04, 2016 · at 1:42 am EST/EDT
      
      Elsi; I’d skip Lubbock,tell you my story another time. Would delight in talking music with you extensively, the great Spanish guitars for one category, but feel it would be imposing on the cafe to get elaborate. I don’t know if those links worked, and the Jimmy Day youtube was flawed. Look up if you can
      custombarbuilder.com
      and write me a note…..

Tony_0pmoc on April 01, 2016 · at 11:15 am EST/EDT

I don’t know or care who if anyone killed Alexander Litvinenko. For all I know, the entire story could have been made up. An awful lot that appears in the press is simply not true, or bears only a slight resemblance to the truth.

“Barril’s allegations should be taken seriously. He is a renowned French intelligence figure who is known in France as “Superflic””

I’ll ask this bloke then – if he believes his story. It could of course be true, but seems more like the kind of crap you will read in The Guardian.

http://www.seanconnery.com/

Maybe they can star in a film together.

If you are a real spy, its fairly sensible you keep quiet about it – at least until you are very old and want a part in a movie.

Maybe there is a hint here “Superflic”

flick
flɪk/

noun: flick; plural noun: flicks

informal
a cinema film.
“a Hollywood action flick”
British
the cinema.
plural noun: the flicks
“fancy a night at the flicks?”

(It is April Fool’s Day as well)

Tony

Peter AU on April 01, 2016 · at 11:27 am EST/EDT

Security Council Sanctions Japan & Venezuela Over Nuclear Proliferation
http://nsnbc.me/2016/04/01/security-council-sanctions-japan-venezuela-over-nuclear-proliferation/

teranam13 on April 01, 2016 · at 3:19 pm EST/EDT

for the next Cafe Mobilizador—? perhaps.

two of the best on how we in the USA are so very, very scr-ewed:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/01/the-lies-of-neoliberal-economics-or-how-america-became-a-nation-of-sharecroppers/

teranam13 on April 01, 2016 · at 3:23 pm EST/EDT

from a non religious but spiritual buddy in France:

Magnifique, voilà le plus bel hymne qui puisse exister.

http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/b9LRM4jEmt8

mundanomaniac on April 01, 2016 · at 4:25 pm EST/EDT

What two weeks! Astrological commenting on the constellations around, better above, Palmyra and us all:

powerful things happen
signified by the mind – heart – and man -god
hence it’s desert-time for media action
and celebration in the wilderness
under the northern stars

if one could have known it one could have done it

e.g. “jamming”
according to notions the IEDs at the antiques could not get detonated
because of the electronic “jamming” by the Russian spezialists
innocence and brilliance
RU- spezialist worldwide in ending war
by victory
union of love intellect and human love
Sun Mercury and Uranus

and with all this there is the resonance-miracle of preparedness which Pluto is signifying and was recently acted by a forwarded Russian spotter – who, encircled by the black satanists, ordered “friendly” fire on his place- a sacrifice which Russian Fighters also brought by in Chechnya. The Russian Army today seems to be a community deeply permeated by the self-sacrifice and the military genius of the Russian fathers and filled with the high honor of demonstrating patriotic humanity on the planet.

a moment in a greater Moment of humanity
at this coming weekend
in these two weeks

http://astromundanediary.blogspot.de/2016/03/3_28.html

Bro Anon on April 02, 2016 · at 2:51 pm EST/EDT

Mundano, like Scott, I am paying more attention to your stars and wanderers analysis.

What once was to me gibberish
Under the sign of the fish
Is starting to make more sense
At the dawn of the great rinse.

And since I’m Aquarius,
And prone to cause occasional dowsings,
I’m getting increasingly curious
About one or two Tao things:

I get that number and measure
In music and in heavenly motions
Are cool things to treasure,
Informing our thoughts and devotions.

But was astrology once known solely
‘Neath desert skies in ancient Samarra
Or also known deeply (and of oldly)
In India, Siam, Bali and China?

Oh, I think I answered my own question by googling Taoism:

DANCING MOON, SKY AND EARTH

Long long ago:
Moon and Earth were one
Until shattering of celestial hammering
Left two dancing where once was one.
Setting a tempo for life to come.
But that was long long ago

Long Ago:
She wined with sages of old
leaving them drunk upon her light.
Men wanting to have more,
yet treasuring
only the emptiness of her embrace.
But that was long ago.

Today:
It’s a busy life.
Rockets to build.
Humanity busily pounding outwards while…
Societies ebb with human tides.
No time for poetry
as life becomes tied, to fulfilling orders.
But that was this morning,
already lost in the afternoon press.

Tomorrow:
I will dance with her
Knowing we will be eclipsed
Our motions moving us on
to get lost in earthly shadows,
leaving me to walk alone: yet fulfilled.
But tomorrow will be nothing,
for those chained to consuming the earth now.

Casey Kochmer Feb 2008

More About the Moon

The moon is very important in the history of Taoism as a teacher. In dancing with the moon a person can discover how to fulfill the nature of emptiness.

Many sages and poets have danced with the moon. END of google search

Bro Anon again: The earth and moon dance is a start.

Next I’ll be looking for the far Eastern spin
On the planets,comets, and the stars again.
- mundanomaniac on April 02, 2016 · at 9:47 pm EST/EDT
  
  Hi Brother,
  
  thanks to your attention, it gives me an idea of not being entirely posthumous.
  
  To your question referring to the east of “ancient Samarra”. My passion, mundane-astrology, seems to have been founded by Indian and Iranian stargazers (the Greeks had personal astrology only). Their observations were compiled in so called Zij-al-Shahs (Kings-tables) and centuries later in the early times of the Abbasids (8th century) there was a climax of promotion of science including Astrology by the Caliphs. (see Bait al Hikma, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom)
  
  So far,
  
  Mundanomaniac
  - mundanomaniac on April 03, 2016 · at 1:59 pm EST/EDT
    
    now brother you gave me the arrow
    in one of my wanderings today
    I remembered all my dancing
    and the groove jumped in my ears
    
    and I was grooving between the
    railway-track and the Trees in the gardens
    - Bro Anon on April 04, 2016 · at 5:31 pm EST/EDT
      
      Mundano, your verse is above me,
      Like the stars that you study.
      Give me time, please, I’ll ascend,
      And soon enough, comprehend.

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Moveable Feast Cafe 2016/03/29 … Open Thread

99 Comments