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I’ve always wondered if the American military / CIA is run by people utterly devoid of any actual military-strategic knowledge.
I understand that their proxies got annihilated in cauldrons in Donbass, because *just maybe* the handlers weren’t up to date on Russian cauldron warfare.
But, the same thing is happening in Syria. Slowly, but surely, Syrian army is forming 1 cauldron after another. The only difference being is that the Syrian army is leaving an escape route for the Wahhabis. But, that is only leading them into bigger cauldrons. Are their handlers truly this incompetent?
some people just need a lot of practise on their road to insanity………
The late summer/early fall 2014 cauldrons formed along the Lugansk/Donetsk borders with Russia and the to the death fight for Saur Moglia Monument Hill announced the coming of age of the Novorossiya Armed Forces (NAF). While I have no doubts that NAF had a good amount of logistic and intel aid from Army Rossiya, it was the ‘miners and tractor drivers’ of Novorossiya that fought the Ukraine Army head to head and defeated Ukraine in detail. It matters now why the ukes lost, they lost, hence the hurried Minsk 1 agreements. The ukes did have a way out of the cauldrons which was the Russian border, run to safety. A very great number of them did and were repatriated to Ukraine after the battles were finished.
The Ukes didn’t stop as per the Minsk 1 agreement, they licked their wounds and steadily increased their bombardments of Donetsk City Proper and surrounding cities and settlements in addition to refusing to turn over Donetsk Aerodrome as per the Minsk 1 agreement. With the ceaseless bombardments after Minsk 1 the ukes began by late October ’14 to actively and aggressively attack various NAF positions and areas with armor and troops. The Donetsk Aerodrome and the entire surrounding area of flats buildings and businesses were totally destroyed during the bombardments and continuous fighting. At the same time any and all infrastructure including water supply systems, electric supply systems, gas and hot water supply systems, hospitals, schools, petrol stations and businesses were systematically taken apart brick by brick by Uke artillery and missile systems. This was to the letter exactly what the ukes did to Slavyansk and Kramotorsk from late April through the first days of July 2014.
When NAF had finally had enough, they completed the securing of the Donetsk Aerodrome area and began to close the long southerly salient stretching down between Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasti to well below Debaltsyevo. As NAF was on the cusp of success in cutting off the salient Merkel and Golland ran to Moskau and demanded a cease fire. VVP shoved them, the orcs and NAF in to a room and held them there overnight until an agreement of sorts was agreed upon and signed by Germany, France, Ukraine and Novorossiya.
After Minsk 2 was signed the orcs kept up heavy bombardments of mainly Donetsk City Proper and surrounding areas from the salient. During the agreement formulation process Poroshenko had steadfastly refused to even discuss Debaltsyevo, assuming his army was strong enough to hold the salient and the Debaltsyevo transportation facilities. Debaltsyevo was a heavily manned orc military area which was to be the springboard for the planned assault to surround and take Donetsk City Proper and end the ‘rebellion’. It was also a heavily supplied logistics center for the orc army for use in the Donetsk attack.
When the bombardments did not cease from the salient and Debaltsyevo and with no mention of the salient in the Minsk 2 agreement per se, NAF tired of the destruction and carnage of their civilian populace and attacked the salient below the reservoirs at the northern neck of the salient. As the NAF attacks progressed there was again a concerted diplomatic attempt to halt the attacks which failed, NAF in essence said no dice. The two concessions NAF made as they closed in on Debaltsyevo region was to give a twelve hour stand down to allow the orc golden pheasants and certain foreigners in the Debaltsyevo cauldron whose capture would be an embarrassment to certain western governments to leave. The second concession formulated the day after the pheasants and ‘untouchables’ were allowed to leave, albeit with just the clothes on their backs and their personal weapons, was an agreement was reached with the orcs for the orcs to be allowed to withdraw to the north through two corridors. This agreement stipulated that the orcs could use their transport, both military and civilian, to withdraw their troops form the Debaltsyevo Cauldron to north of the reservoirs, carrying only their personal weapons and the clothes on their backs.
The first two relatively small groups of orcs did as the agreement said and made it to safety. The following groups decided to take their loot, their armor and some of their arty and rocket systems with them contrary to the agreement and attempted to shoot their way out of the cauldron. The result was they were attacked, defeated in detail and slaughtered.
No one will ever know how many ukes died in the Debaltsyevo Cauldron battles but the number is huge, numbering in the several of thousands. The amount of ordinance, ammunitions, supplies, POL, everything one can imagined, found in the Debaltsyevo area and cauldron was so huge it took over two MONTHS to just count it all, let alone haul it away. The city was to a great extent destroyed as were the surrounding villages.
Both cauldron battles were a result of underestimating your enemy and believing your own propaganda with a good amount of euphoria from Strelkov being forced to abandon the Slavyansk/Kramatorsk/Kransi Luhman area on 05 July 2014. Of course, Strelkov had, with but few forces to his name, held up and delayed the entire, for what it was worth, uke army for almost three months and that calculated delay gave DNR and LNR the time to form governments and a semblance of administrative infrastructure.
Today the Army of Novorossiya is a force to be reckoned with. If one views their training and field exercises for the last six months one can see virtually no difference in the skill levels of NAF compared to the Russian Armed Forces. NAF has no air forces but they do not need them, it is obvious that the orc air forces are denied access to Novorossiya skies for well over a year.
The situation in Syria is as different from Novorossiya as night is to day. Syria was quite literally two weeks away from catastrophic defeat with all the mayhem and carnage such a defeat would entail, hence the speed with RuAF answered the call and came to the rescue, said rescue by the skin of Syria’s teeth. The enemy is resourceful and very well supplied but has proven time and again to be no match to a stand up slugging match with the SAA. In four years of attrition and slaughter the SAA was demoralized and at their wit’s end, fighting an enemy who was far better supplied than they were and perhaps not led but guided by some first rate advisors. Couple this fact with the very large numbers of ‘accidental’ air attacks on SAA, especially in the last eighteen months, and one can understand this fact.
The current battles in Syria are to liberate cities, towns and villages in addition to cutting off supply to the foreigners fighting SAA and the legal government of Syria. The numbers of ‘refugees’ fleeing to Turkei ‘because of the Russian air attacks’ are in fact the families and allies of the orcs fighting the SAA, fleeing to their main ally as they realize the end is near and in some cases are ordered to run. Merkel et al can scream and whine all they want, nothing will stop until Syria is free of the orcs attacking them under the umbrella of EU/US/NATO. When the final victory is at hand I have few doubts that a large cauldron will be formed and the orcs will be defeated and slaughtered in detail, just as they have slaughtered their way across Syria.
Auslander
Author, Never The Last One http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZGCY8KK
It is an awful underestimation to be angry and fight against the hegemony someone achieved and at the same time think that they are incapable. How did they get there?
Concerning Ukraine, some are quick to cheer how Russia managed to outmaneuver everyone, but forget the context of the lose/lose situation that spurred that brilliant reaction. With the exception of Crimea, nothing has been solved in Ukraine and the situation is still worse for Russia than it was before the intervention of the “incapable”.
The military domination of the Donbass was expected. On one side, there were unmotivated soldiers sent to fight against their own people, supported by nutjob volunteers, on the other – highly motivated people defending their lives, families and homes. It is impossible to win in such situation, unless you have complete military superiority and are ready to commit a genocide. That would be way too obvious to the international community, same as that law proposal against the Russian language, which was quickly discarded when someone with a brain interfered.
Militarily, we are also looking at two different approaches. Russia is taming chaos, which requires its own strategies, most of them old as the world and easily recognizable. On the other side, we have those who create chaos and their strategies look chaotic. There’s no lack of “military-strategic knowledge”, one simply needs to look from the proper perspective. The mere fact that nothing has been tamed, nothing has been solved and people are still dying should be enough of a proof.
The Saker already warned against such unwarranted optimism. I will go even further. It is naive to think that Russia is doing anything more than defending its interests. Today, they align with the views of most commenters here, but that means strictly nothing about tomorrow. There is only hope.
There are rumours that Saudi Arabia will send its special forces to Syria:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-09/saudi-arabia-prepares-send-special-forces-syria-will-fight-part-us-led-coalition
From what I have seen of Qataris (I am currently working in Qatar on a 2 year contract,) and from what is going on in Yemen, I doubt the effectiveness of any Saudi military, including their special forces. Put simply, most Qataris are pretentious, unskilled, and lazy; Saudis are worse. The Saudis are extremely afraid of casualties, hence their hiring of Colombian mercenaries to fight their war in Yemen. Finally, there is no reason to believe Saudi soldiers have the morale to sustain a long campaign in Syria, whereas Syrian morale is at an all-time high.
Saudi special forces, yeah, that sounds right– what would we do without italics?
I noticed some discussion about F-35. Actually, F-35 it is a complete failure and waste of money in compare to cancelled F-22 project. Production of JSF in big numbers is a blessing only for Russia and China:
http://www.ausairpower.net/jsf.html
List of articles about Joint Strike Fighter F-35
My personal recommendation:
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-140909-1.html
F-35 Joint Strike Fighter vs Russia’s New Airborne Counter-Stealth Radars
Ausairpower is a great sorce of information about NATO, Russian, Chinese military planes & air defence systems. List of experts, who have created this site. http://www.ausairpower.net/support.html
http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-15047.htm
Article about Syrian balistic missiles, which could be used against Turkey airbases and ground forces. Source in Russian.
With all the barrel bombing propaganda we forget that Syria does have a large number of missiles. Syrian government does not use overwhelming firepower in populated areas to reduce casualties even if most Syrians support the government and want to eradicate the civilian supporters who give shelter to terrorists blowing up markets and populated areas. Although old we have seen just how devastating these missiles are in Ukraine and Yemen. If turkey or who ever thinks they would only be facing barrel bombs and invade they will find a huge surprise.
Hemingway was my first favorite writer. I added Orwell, Le Carré, Tolkien, Solzhenitsyn, Tolstoy, Shakespeare, Lord Byron, Yeats, and Koestler to that list.
Try these on a cold evening.
Koestler’s “Scum of the Earth.”
Solzhenitsyn, Samsonov “August 1914.”
Hemingway “The Sun Also Rises” is my favorite fiction.
Tolstoy “War and Peace”
Also quite good: Isaac Deutscher, Mark Twain, Alex King, Brendan Behan, James Hilton, CLR James.
Hemingway’s Paris, is most memorable. As I walked its streets with the Wife, Hemingway flavored the experience. I attempted to locate the streets and emotions he walked.
Hemingway’s “Movable Feast” is well worth reading. The café looks inviting; notice the guy picking his nose?
Hemingway hated the oligarchs.
Koestler understood that we are treated like Scum.
Respect all! Bow to none!
I’ve just read biographies of people and the history of wars. I’m no academic/philosophical type. Don’t read books now because my eyes aren’t the best.
History/human character constantly repeats. Nukes? Something different in the history of warfare. In the past all weapons have been used. I think that – judging by history – nukes will be used, but then again this is a weapon that has the capability of destroying all life, something that is not covered in the history of warfare? But….
Hemingway
= CIA lifetime actor
Orwell
= British Intelligence, but yes, one of the great whistle-blowers of the 20th century in his later days
Shakespeare
= Pseudonym, most likely crypto-Jewish hoax
I can’t help myself taking the bait.
I’ve heard many ludicrous theories about Shakespeare. But a “crypto-Jewish hoax”? How Jewish? How crypto? And how a hoax?
Do tell.
As I was sitting in my personal cafe this morning doing my ritual ablutions, I randomly open the pages of Song of Songs again and found this panegyric to love. Notice the references to Lebanon and Damascus. How far we have fallen from literary grace.
“Bridegroom:
How beautiful, princess, are your shod feet
The joints of your thighs are like the work of a master goldsmith
Your navel is like a goblet which never lacks for liquor
Your belly is like a heap of wheat surrounded by lilies
Your breasts are like young twin gazelles
Your neck is like an ivory tower
Your eyes are like the fishpools of Hebron by the principal gate
Your nose is like the tower of Lebanon which looks upon Damascus
Your head is like Mount Carmel and your hair like pleats of royal purple
How beautifully and gloriously you are made
You are as tall as a date palm, your breasts are like its clusters
But your breasts to my touch were rather clusters of grapes
And your breath had the scent of quinces
I decided to re-post this :
The oil prices and the Petrodollar will follow the path of war !
It is highly unlikely that NATO will not intervene in case of a Russia-Turkey open war.Just look at the map,Turkey represents the south-eastern flank of NATO and beside that,assures the security of the Arab peninsula and Israel,thus the Suez-Canal and Horn of Africa.The entire region has a very high strategic importance.Add to that the coming intervention in Libya which is also very important.Now,what will happen if Turkey is beaten in an all-out war against Russia (without the help of NATO) : – the entire eastern flank of NATO will be lost,with all the negative impact on USA,NATO and their Arab allies.
– Turkey as a NATO base will be lost forever
– Egypt will now openly switch on the side of Russia and her allies.A new order will be in place in the entire region,the palestinians will return to their new Palestinian state.Hard times are to come for Israel.
– Saudi-Arabia shall lost her power as well as Qatar,Kuwait and Bahrain (the US,British and French bases will have to be closed for ever – in the Golf)
– The price of oil will be dictated in coordination with Russia and not in Dollars
– The EU will succumb and crash or will be forced to switch towards the new order if wants to survive.Maybe the EU as a whole will be put under scrutiny as well as NATO.Greece will be the first to leave it.
– Iran will be the main regional power.
– USA will lost her hegemony,hard times will come upon her too.
There is another scenario : the Turkish military and political class will revolt in the wake of defeat against Russian coalition.They will manage to change the regime and achieve a ceasfire with the Russian coalition,leaving NATO and thus making the first step toward a reconciliation with Russia.I think this would be the right scenario for Turkey in case NATO will not intervene.
Maybe USA will let those things to happen being to afraid to intervene militarily – risking a wider conflict – and will make a deal with Russia in order to save face.
However,I am skeptical,there is too much at stake for the US.
And just to ad : there is too much at stake for Russia,Syria,Iran and International Justice
on uk radio tonight 1 in 5 uk children will have, do have mental health problems………………….flippin’ heck, I’m really worried for their well being and ours, how on earth did this situation arise? Working in a university , in recent years I have become increasingly aware of larger numbers of students with basic problems, able to listen, understand, have very poor learning abilities and strategies, poor attention span, disfunctional in various degrees, very few practical skills…heck, and what is worse, little seems to be brought to their attention like “how to learn to learn”, how to learn from mistakes and failing strategies eg 51 cognitive biases, Kolbs cycle, learning styles,by our educational system….expecting they’ll just pick things up somehow, but need to employ educational psychologists but won’t…..
zombie land here we come?
@JJ on February 09, 2016 · at 7:25 pm UTC
Unfortunately it was planned very well in advance to destroy especially Slavic nations / after research very strong stable DNA/ because the nations in US were already destroyed by the food and very low educational level.
It is up to the certain nations if they finally stand up to this tyranny and depopulation project or not. It is extremely visible in every single country around the world. Ukraine is no exception.
” Unfortunately it was planned very well in advance to destroy especially Slavic nations”
… all nations, tribes, ethnics, religions, Jews included. See Huxley (Brave New World), Orwell (1984). In their wet dreams, the Parasites consider themselves the Master race ruling the over the rest of the world, a light-brown, genetically dumbed-down, infertile goyim race.
” after research very strong stable DNA”
Don’t fall for the strong/weak DNA hoax, another divide and conquer scheme. DNA is widely misunderstood and overrated. We humans are one big family. And ultimately we are all pure consciousness inhabiting human bodies. Only by working (and partying!) together can we make this world a paradise again.
bit more
increasing lack ok knowledgeable teachers, teachers working in not their own subject areas at low levels,despite big funding to atract teachers failing scheme over last 4 years, tv progs show teaching in schools extremely challenging situations(article the other day where a UK teacher was irtuallu hounded out of his classes), attitude from students etc, does it all stem from UK has lowest rate of breast feeding in Europe., highest divorce rate, social deprivation, single families, high drug crime rates, too much service industry not manufacturing, some toke effort at bringing back apprenticeships….list could go on and on……………..hmm
I may be in error with respect to my memory, but it is my recollection that in the recent past, after US bloviating about attacking Russia, a senior Russian official announced a doctrine to the effect that if the Russian homeland is attacked in any manner, Russia will respond by using tactical nuclear weapons against all NATO military installations. Tried Google — no success.
Can anyone help with a link?
I remember hearing about that as well. So I think your memory is correct,at least on the main facts of the report.
Putin has made such a statement, but it was not in the context of USA, rather ISIS (which is kind of the same:), in this article there are all the links up to the original Putin’s statement:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/putin-has-threatened-to-use-nuclear-weapons-against-isis-but-hopes-they-will-never-be-needed-a6766196.html
A PLAN update , for those that are interested.
http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/2016.htm
Here is a pledge from Women’s Environmental and Development Organization ( a non NGO):
I pledge allegiance to the Earth,
and to the flora, fauna and human life
that it supports, one planet, indivisible,
with safe air, water and soil
economic justice, equal rights
and peace forall.
warning
*coincidence theorists* please stay away….
before,
mahathir called fukus world’s no 1 terrorist,
malaysia told fukus to fuck off from malacca st,
malaysia said china was no bully,
kl court indicted bush/blair as war criminals,
malaysia steadfastly refused to sign tpp,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
after,
malaysia said china raising tension in scs, intruding in its territory,
malaysian mod invited [dragged ?] to a foto op on the deck of uss Theodore Roosevelt by asston carter,
malaysia finally succumed to tpp inspite of mass protest in the st
so what comes in bet these 180 degree turn around ?
mh370 *disappered*,
mh17 shot down,
airasia QZ8501 exploded in midair,
copter with najib’s chief of staff exploded in mid air,
mh148 near miss, emergency landing at melborune,
mh132 given wrong flight plan,
mal is now technically bankrupt,
very rare quake devastated sabah,
rent a mob racial attacks targeted the chinese community,
the website *voice of sabah* [run by an expat brit woman ;-)], the wsj, bbc all dropping *bombshells* insinuating najib of mega corruption,
i cant vouch for the accuracy of this piece,
http://geopolitics.co/2016/02/10/they-are-all-watching-you-malaysia/
but for my money, somebody has been trying to arm twist malaysia into the anti china posse’
seeing the kind of shit they are willing to do to achieve their goal should send a cold chill down a man’s spine.
ian fleming’s fundamental law of probability
once an accident,…….
on sanders the *great white hope*.
murkkan left/right illusion, the same good cop bad cop routine
like the repug/dem duopoly.
*[genuine] Leftists see through the Democratic Party’s corruption and don’t fear being spoilers. They know that the system needs to be spoiled and aren’t afraid to say so. The word Democrat is not synonymous with leftist. Sander fans are Democrats with all of the flaws of the party they still support. The people who yearn to find a good person in a corrupt system have some choices to make, but putting the Sanders lipstick on the Democratic pig should not be among them.
http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/17280
Having not voted since there is nothing viable that isn’t warmongering as a choice for President, I’d agree with one proviso.
The whole Democratic strategy has been for a Sanders or Obama or whoever to shepherd the rank and file into line. They assume that Sanders owns his constituents, that he tells them what they want to hear, and they follow him.
What I see encouraging is that he IS drawing big crowds, which means there is some sort of political consciousness in the mostly middle class.
What has to happen, though, is that Sanders needs to be read the riot act by the rank and file, that they are NOT LOYAL to him, but to the movement, or to grant him his due, to the political revolution that he nominally espouses.
That there is no way in h*ll that the people who are doing his volunteering and donating will switch over to support the Wicked Witch of the West, when he gets the political or perhaps real knife in the back by the Democratic party leadership, which has been playing this game since Roosevelt wanted Henry Wallace, but the puppet Truman was foisted on them and Wallace disposed of and Roosevelt poisoned.
Sanders is the American Tsipras, but he could be the nose under the tent if the people who understand the stakes, use Sanders, not the other way around. The likelihood of pulling that off? Small, but things are in deep flux. So anything is possible.
The other point that Jill Stein made is that there is a real crisis of student debt which is odious and largely fraudulent debt that does not serve the consumer economy, which debt free young people with good jobs could contribute to. So as she says, if the banks could be bailed out $16 trillion dollars in 2008, the the students’ debt could be cancelled, which would inject all their loan payments in the real economy.
There are 43 million young people in the USA. If they were enlisted on that ONE issue, the Green party, through well run social media could outflank the MSM and put real pressure on Sanders and maybe even get the Greens onto the map, since their program is the most forward looking and most cognizant of the need for the Empire and its bases to be dismantled.
can u beat the system ?
as andre vltchek points out, the puppet masters had ways to make sure the last man standing was the chosen one.
if against all odds some one else slips thru and entered the wh or their manchurian candidate steps out of line, they had ways to take him out too.
the track record speaks for itself.
every potus since ww2 has been the mic’s chosen candidate who implemented the same murderous foreign policy.
Nukes have the power to destroy all life, but whoever controls the world currency has the power to control all human life. It does not matter who has control of that currency, A/Z, ISIS, Nazis whoever. Because it has so much power psychopaths will always control it.
Netherland confirmed that only Ukraine had operating Buk systems that caused the tragedy with Boeing MH17 in Donbass
on: February 10, 2016
10th Feb./Donetsk/Novorossia Today. Deputy of the Parliament of the Netherlands Pieter Omtzigt reported following news in Twitter from the courtroom where the question of the shot down Boeing in Donbass was heard: CTIVD (intelligence agencies control body) confirms that only Ukraine had operating Buk systems in the East of Ukraine.
The head of the CTIVD Harm Brauer spoke in the Parliament of the Netherlands on 22nd January . Relying to Omtzigt, deputies of the Netherlands provided to the commission data, according to which, operating Buk systems were only in Ukraine in the moment of the tragedy on 17th July.”
http://novorossia.today/netherland-confirmed-that-ukraine-had-acting-buk-systems-that-the-tragedy-with-boeing-mh17-in-donbass/
gonna bung this here cos old thread re Kadyrov too far back?
MOSCOW, February 10. /TASS/. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov has called the attack on Russian opposition politician Mikhail Kasyanov in a Moscow restaurant an unacceptable act of hooliganism.
Media reports said a group of unknown men attacked the politician in a restaurant in downtown Moscow on late Tuesday and threw a cake at him, shouting threats. Kasyanov later filed a police complaint asking to bring the attackers to justice.
READ ALSO
Russia’s ex-PM asks FSB to launch criminal proceedings against Chechen leader
Kadyrov sends ‘to court’ those bashing his Instagram post with oppositionist ‘at gunpoint’
Putin says he didn’t discuss investigation of Nemtsov’s murder with Kadyrov
Chechen leader says he’s ready to be questioned over murder of Russian opposition leader
Moscow police have not commented to TASS on the reports.
“An attack on any person, not only on a protected one, should be of course considered as unacceptable,” Peskov told reporters.
“This is an act of hooliganism that of course needs to be condemned,” he said.
The presidential spokesman said it is up to the Federal Protective Service (FSO) to answer the other questions.
Peskov also said he does not agree that the lack of the presidential administration’s reaction to a video featuring Kasyanov recently posted by Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov in his microblog could have led to such an incident.
On February 1, Kadyrov published on his Instagram page a video clip featuring Parnas party leader Kasyanov and deputy party chairman, journalist Vladimir Kara-Murza junior. A “sniper sight” visual filter was used in the video.
The post was followed by the words “Kasyanov comes to Strasbourg to get money for Russian opposition. Who has not understood will understand.” Kasyanov and Kara-Murza Jr. later asked the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) to launch criminal proceedings against Kadyrov for the posted video clip.’
More:
http://tass.ru/en/politics/855694
The write up of the Trump interview leaves stuff out, like when Nora interrupts Trump to suggest that his view of Putin bombing ISIS is wrong, that actually Putin is bombing some good guys. Trump just blows her off and asks whether U.S. even knows who it is arming over there.
I can’t figure a way to separate the video from the CBS page, though. Recommend taking time to read, and to watch/listen to the video. It is possible that Donald Trump is not at all the “idiot” he pretends to be? He definitely has, and is ready to exhibit, a better grip on reality than the others. Getting a bit serious about U.S. “foreign policy,” here.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-lays-out-post-new-hampshire-strategy-foreign-policy-positions/
Maybe Saker can find a better place for this. It could be important.
GrandmaR, very interesting video, thank you for posting it. I especially enjoyed the look on the faces of the interviewers “should he be saying these things on TV?”.