Moveable Feast Cafe 2017/08/19 … Open Thread

America has a tattoo problem. Why does the rest of the world still want to become like the USA?

http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/04/need-admit-america-tattoo-problem/

For those not already saturated with US Civil War discussion from the Charlottesville threads, I wanted to add a bit more about the basis for President Lincoln’s decision to go to war. I believe that this information is not simply relevant to students of US history but to secessionist movements in any country with significant foreign debt (Scotland, Quebec, Catalonia, etc.).

What follows are the actual arguments cited by President Lincoln himself during his July 4, 1861 speech to Congress. By that time, Lincoln had already laid the groundwork for war. But his speech makes clear he simply did not have the resources to prosecute the war. In his address, the President asks for authorization for a force of 400,000 men. The entire white male population of the United States at that time was less than 14 million.

I have seen it claimed that Lincoln opposed secession on the basis of preventing a potential vulnerability of the US to foreign interference. Possibly, but the President does not make this argument. Instead he states:

The forbearance of this government had been so extraordinary, and so long continued, as to lead some foreign nations to shape their action as if they supposed the early destruction of our national Union was probable. While this, on discovery, gave the Executive some concern, he is now happy to say that the sovereignty, and rights of the United States, are now everywhere practically respected by foreign powers; and a general sympathy with the country is manifested throughout the world.

Some posters have expressed puzzlement over the importance of the war being referred to as a “Civil War”. In fact, this is a key legal point. If a “Civil War” then the actions taken against Federal property in the South as well as the declarations of secession can be legally considered an insurrection which the President would be justified in the use of force to suppress. If secession were legal, however, then Federal forts would need to be considered as occupying the sovereign territory of a foreign state.

Lincoln attacks the legality of secession:

They invented an ingenious sophism, which, if conceded, was followed by perfectly logical steps, through all the incidents, to the complete destruction of the Union. The sophism itself is, that any state of the Union may, consistently with the national Constitution, and therefore lawfully, and peacefully, withdraw from the Union, without the consent of the Union, or of any other state.

This sophism derives much—perhaps the whole—of its currency, from the assumption, that there is some omnipotent, and sacred supremacy, pertaining to a State—to each State of our Federal Union. Our States have neither more, nor less power, than that reserved to them, in the Union, by the Constitution

This is a debatable argument since the 10th amendment states: powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Lincoln is stating the exact opposite: that States have no powers not granted by the Constitution.

Finally, though, Lincoln rejects the legality of secession by another peculiar argument. He states:

What is now combatted, is the position that secession is consistent with the Constitution—is lawful, and peaceful. It is not contended that there is any express law for it; and nothing should ever be implied as law, which leads to unjust, or absurd consequences.

Lincoln thus rejects the legality of secession since it would lead to unjust, or absurd consequences and what are these consquences?

The nation is now in debt for money applied to the benefit of these so-called seceding States, in common with the rest. Is it just, either that creditors shall go unpaid, or the remaining States pay the whole? A part of the present national debt was contracted to pay the old debts of Texas. Is it just that she shall leave, and pay no part of this herself?

Again, if one State may secede, so may another; and when all shall have seceded, none is left to pay the debts. Is this quite just to creditors? Did we notify them of this sage view of ours, when we borrowed their money? If we now recognize this doctrine, by allowing the seceders to go in peace, it is difficult to see what we can do, if others choose to go, or to extort terms upon which they will promise to remain.

@ mundanomaniac,

Thanks for your thought provoking and emotional probing reply. Whereas I begin with thinking; you start with feeling. You can see it that way, and I often start with feeling also.

However, the context I was dealing with is the Love Army and the problem of war. Armies run on orders, commandments, discipline and strength. Emotions are involved but in a war, strategy depends on thought. We speak of an information war.

That is one reason that I start with thought. It depends on the situation. The Love Bower starts with feeling, and is protected by clear thinking and strong warriors. Generally speaking, good feelings follow upon right actions, which are determined by proper order.

I read the link to Jung that you provided. It is very valuable, and reminds me of Jordan Peterson, who is conversant with Jung, and the psychological literature. I think both are brilliant thinkers who have their hearts in the right place.

In the Love Government “map of meaning,” to use Jordan’s psychology, faculties are ranked or ordered according to their relative strengths. I know this rankles some people but it’s a choice I make. In my view, there are seven ascending orders of strength in the human being: body, feeling, fantasy, dream, mind, intuition and an overall order of justice. There are higher levels but they need not detain us here. We can also go into the depths of reality, in which case the terminology is reversed.

Notice that I rank mind above emotion in relative strength. We are named “homo sapiens” rather than “femina sentiens.” That fits our culture of patriarchy but I think it is a mistake that produces war and its discontents. A love army has to start where most people are, and the plain fact is that we are immersed in war.

I start with thinking in a war context, also because of physiology. Humans have a neo-cortex with is concerned with thinking. Feelings are more associated with animals and the lower parts of the brain. Both are important, but if we are to have a civilization at all, the preference must go to reason as the guide of feeling.

But it doesn’t stop there. There are broader, deeper and higher powers. I choose to call them “love.” But that’s a whole different train of thought, and feeling, as well as spirituality. I have concluded that love is the most useful word to use as a center-point and circumference. It is popular and profound. It is absolute and relative, man and woman; and is congruent with all virtues and vices.

Ok, enough. I want to eat and prepare for sleep. Thanks so much for engaging in these matters so critical to our times. We think and we feel. There is no contradiction between these two powers. We each make our choices, and in a cafe like this, share our likes and dislikes, and various philosophies and psychologies, as well as much else. What more can we ask for, other than the cessation of war?

Love, Dennis

Iran Rules US to Pay $245Mln to Chemical Attacks Victims in Iran-Iraq War

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201708201056630249-iran-us-compensation-chemical-attack/

“An Iranian court demanded the US administration to pay $245 million to the victims of chemical attacks carried out by Saddam Hussein’s forces during the Iran-Iraqi war of 1980-1988, Iran’s Judiciary spokesman Gholam Hossein Mohseni Eje’i said Sunday.

During the war Washington supported Iraq with monetary assistance, weaponry, intelligence, technology and also provided materials found by UN experts in the fragments of chemical weapons used by the Iraqi army in Iran.”

US to Pause Naval Operations Worldwide After USS John McCain Crash

https://sputniknews.com/us/201708211056655032-us-uss-mccain-naval-ops-pause/

“This trend demands more forceful action. As such I’ve directed an operational pause be taken in all of our fleets around the world,” Richardson said.”

….and people at sea world wide breathe a collective sigh of relief.

Stalin destroys the churches of Moscow. ? So is this vile propaganda against beloved good-guy uncle Joe? see below. just want to know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoAEKHBtNIA

Trump Approves Sending 4K More Troops to Afghanistan, Official Says
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/08/22/trump-approves-sending-4k-more-troops-afghanistan-official-says.html

The Spanish have values and honor and loyalty which is why there will be no Islamic Spain.

https://www.rt.com/viral/400501-spanish-swimmer-minute-silence/

and this is the voice of the Spanish section of the umma

https://www.rt.com/news/400467-barcelona-muslims-rally-terrorism/

There were suspects that survived in Barcelona probably because they were injured a few days earlier in the premature demolition of their bombs, but the 4 are being held and tried in secret proceedings in Madrid—so Spanish intel has their hands on them. Maybe they will be sent to Gitmo? This will be the last we hear of them.

By the way, remember the two supposed deaths from the downed helicopter in Charlesville? What ever happened to their story of service and martyrdom—just guys doing their job in an officially incompetent ( or deliberately chaotic) leadership situation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41010469

Hi. It’s late and I’m tired but I wanted to say goodbye to the Gemini Sisters in our picture with a thousand faces. When I’m tired, I might say something I will regret.

In fact, it happened a few hours hence. I had a nice post in reply to J, one minion and Bro 93, thanking them for the feedback and questions they posed. Then it happened. I touched my touchy computational machine, and my masterpiece disappeared like a bat into hell.

Oh, you should have heard the cussing and mussing. I thought of blaming God but thought better of it, and resorted to a few “God—-them,” staying on the windward side of God. Then I saw who the dastard was: the commander of the Love Army’s ninth division, a joker from birth.

He wanted to teach me a lesson, and he did. I flashed back to my two year old’s temper tantrum when I didn’t get my way, my four year old’s violent kicking against the doctor trying inject me with allergy shots, and my six year old’s screams of resistance at going to kindergarten.

Well, my fighting days came to an end when I entered the domains of the black robed priests and nuns. They have a way, honed over thousands of years, to induce conformity. I became a saint of obedience, until my late twenties, when the Protestant biblical exegetes came knocking on my door, and right after my bible teacher who warned me of reading such-likes.

Where was I? I stopped in here for some reason. That Old Timer’s Disease must be advancing. Oh, how I long to talk Trump talk, but I must leave it to later. Oh, yah. I lost my previous post. Now I understand why the ninth commander acted the part of good parent with a very angry child. And I understand partially why since this morning the smallest things going wrong irritated the heaven out of me; if it had been hell, it wouldn’t have been so bad.

The Jungian serendipity symbol then happened. Either that, or mundanomaniac is bi-locating. Btw, thanks for your thought-piercing feelings in the comment you just made. What happened was that I knocked a hand-held mirror off my table and it shattered into a dozen pieces.

I didn’t even blink. I con the Love Army’s tricks now pretty well. Shatter the sob before his shadow shatters him. Like I said, when I’m tired, my second cylinder of sense misfires. As the hayseeds say: time to hit the hay. I just hit the caps key by mistake. Now it might be this Two Sisters cafe’s last day, and I would fall into a deep depression, from which the ninth commander would have to pull me up by my bootstraps. Sort of like he’s doing with the Donald; and if there, why not with the Dennis?

Love, the Dennis from Hotel California where you can always check in but never leave unless there’s a mighty tall tale you can weave…

US 7th Fleet Commander to Be Relieved Amid Warships’ Collisions

https://sputniknews.com/us/201708231056706241-usa-fleet-commander-relieved/

“According to The Wall Street Journal, Aucoin was already slated to retire in September due to high year of tenure, however, in the wake of the recent incidents the commander will be relieved of duty for a loss of confidence.

However, no official claims against Aucoin in connection with the collisions have been issued so far.”

Looks like the zionazis found their fall guy and it’s back to business as usual.

Warning: very skarry stuff, worse than failing to respect confederate war criminals and traitors, this goes to the very core of destroying american exceptionalism and values: socialized medicine. Read at your own risk.

Activist Explains Why US Democrats Squash Single-Payer Health Care Efforts

https://sputniknews.com/politics/201708231056704298-democrats-sabotage-single-payer-movement/

“Radio Sputnik’s Loud and Clear spoke with Dr. Margaret Flowers, co-director of Popular Resistance, about how the struggle for a single payer system feels all too familiar.

“It’s like being in 2009 all over again,” Flowers said, recalling pushback from Democrats under former President Barack Obama during his administration’s work toward health care reform. “As the push for a Medicare-for-all system gets louder, we’re seeing all these writers provide cover for Democrats by saying ‘You’re asking for too much, you can’t do this, you have to compromise from the beginning because this isn’t politically feasible.'”

​She pointed out that the movement for single-payer healthcare has grown even as Democrats call on their base to focus only on stopping President Donald Trump’s ill-fated Repeal-and-Replace efforts, rather than pushing for further, real reform.

Flowers remarked, “That has really freaked them out because the people are way ahead of where they are. And so now how do they convince people, how do they disempower them and weaken them and make them think that they’re asking for too much? This is the same thing we’ve seen throughout the history of social movements: we’re always told that we’re asking too much.”

Loud and Clear host Brian Becker noted that a similar cry was heard during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s.”