Original link: http://middleeastobserver.net/nasrallah-on-obedience-to-god-how-it-guides-shia-political-action/
Description:
Speaking at a mourning ceremony to mark the yearly religious occasion of Ashura, Hezbollah’s leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah touched on the Islamic conception of worship and obedience to God, and the implications of this conception on the world of political decision-making and action within contemporary Shia Islam.
The following transcript helps to reveal the intersection of the religious, the spiritual, and the socio-political for Nasrallah and many Shia political movements today.
The Hezbollah leader’s comments were made at a time when Lebanon faces one of the worst political and economic crises in the history of the Mediterranean country.
Source: Al-Manar Tv
(Note: Please help us keep producing independent translations by contributing a small monthly amount here )
Transcript:
Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah’s Secretary-General:
True worship of Allah means complete obedience to Almighty Allah. ‘Uboodiyah (worship) is not (simply) defined by the number of prayers and fasts one carries out, even while keeping in mind that Salat (prayers) and Sawm (fasting) are part of worship.
‘Uboodiyah in its true essence means obedience to Almighty Allah, in all aspects – whether small or great – and refraining from disobeying Allah Almighty, no matter how small or big (that matter is). This is the school of the Prophet and the Ahlul Bayt, peace and blessings be upon them.
And this is the message of Karabala for us. It is the message of worship of Allah, and obedience to Allah Almighty. And even if this obedience to Allah Almighty entails that we reach a point in which we are besieged, become hungry, and thirsty, and are forced to fight, and be killed, and our women are taken captive. This is the true (deeper) message (of Karabla), before talking about politics and the political circumstances and goals (of that time), in 61 A.H. This is the meaning of al-Husayn’s movement, peace be upon him.
For this reason, in all of al-Husayn’s speeches and statements he would say ‘God wills (this)’ (shaa’a Allah), but not in the sense of (having no choice but to accept) an unchangeable fate. ‘God wills’ in the sense that ‘this is God’s judgment’, ‘this is what God has chosen for me’, ‘this is what God is pleased with for me, and I am pleased with what God is pleased with, and I act in accordance with what God Almighty is pleased with’.
……….
When we obey Almighty Allah, indeed we act in the interest of our own selves, (in the interest of) our own aakhirah (life in hereafter), for (the sake of) our own dunya (worldly life), (in the interest of) of the dunya and aakhirah of the people (at large). Allah is needless of our obedience, and our disobedience does not harm him (in any way). Hence, the motive (that we must have) always, is carrying out our takleef (responsibility before God). To discover our takleef, and to carry it out.
Here I move on to a detailed discussion of this matter. To discover one’s takleef, is a very important issue, O’ brothers and sisters. Meaning that, when I am before a particular incident or development or issue, what is my takleef? What is my Islamic responsibility? What must I say, such that through my words I would be in obedience of Almighty Allah? How must I act, such that via my actions I would be in obedience of Allah Almighty? Discovering one’s takleef is a great and highly important matter.
In some of the meetings with his eminence, the leader, Imam (Sayyed Ali) Khamenei, may his life be prolonged, he use to say to us: ‘always supplicate and ask Allah Almighty with tawassul (intercession) and extreme humbleness and utter humility, to reveal to you your takleef (responsibility)’. One of the greatest blessings (of God) upon man, is that He reveals to him and guides him towards his takleef, and that He supports and aids him in discovering his (own) takleef. Why? Because aakhirah (is at stake)! Before we talk about dunya and the worldly ramifications (of knowing or not knowing one’s takleef).
We must humbly and consistently ask Allah Almighty to 1) (guide) us towards discovering our takleef, and 2) to carry out this takleef. Because sometimes we may discover our takleef but realize that it is difficult (to carry out). Difficult. Painful. Costly. So we refrain from (trying to carry it out). Discovering (one’s) takleef requires Divine attention (i.e. Grace and support), and carrying out the takleef and remaining patient in its implementation requires Divine attention. We must attain this Divine attention through supplication with humility and persistent turning to God Almighty.
In our own lives, (discovering our) takleef (religious responsibility) in many cases is clear and easy. For instance, (in relation to) the rules (ahkaam) of Salat, Taharah, Sawm, Zakat, Khums, Hajj, Umrah, trade, buying, selling, marriage, divorce etc. Mashallah (impressively), in the jurisprudential (fiqhi) books of all Muslims of all the various sects, you will find many editions and volumes on even the smallest of matters. This includes all the various sects and their various jurisprudential opinions (ijtihad) etc. Thus, depending on one’s sect, man is able to find out his takleef when it comes to many aspects and details of life.
However, the difficulty lies where? In the (new) issues that arise in the life of man. Here, we are not talking about the taharah (Islamic cleanliness) of this water or the najasah (Islamic uncleanliness) of this product, or the permissibility of selling (this thing or that). Rather, (the difficulty lies) with regards to new issues and developments in our lives relating to politics, security, military, society, economy, and culture. What do we do?
(These matters) affect us, our families, our children, our grandchildren, the people around us, and the generations to come. The stance that we take regarding this or that great and serious matter, will not only decide the fate of ourselves only, but rather, the fate of generations to come. Here, man must search for his takleef so that he may know it. And this has its particular mechanisms – and you know about (these mechanisms) – I will suffice myself with this much (on this issue for now) and (conclude) with this: this is where asking about one’s takleef becomes of (utmost) importance. That is, not just (solely focusing on questions like) the taharah of this water or the permissibility of selling this product, which are questions of a personal nature. These are personal issues. As for broader issues, or as Imam (Mahdi) says in a narration, ‘as for the hawaadith al-waaqi’ah (new events/developments that occur)’. The events and developments that arise in the life of man, (events) that affect the fate of all people.
(For instance), whether we fight, or don’t fight. Whether we resist, or don’t resist. For example, if there wasn’t a resistance in Lebanon in 1982, then Israel would still be occupying Lebanon in 2021, setting up settlements in Lebanon, controlling political decision-making in Lebanon, arresting the young men and women of Lebanon and forcing them into its prisons, as it done with thousands of Palestinian prisoners etc etc etc. Therefore, what the (Lebanese) generation of 1982, 1983, and 1984 carried out didn’t just affect them, but rather all the generations that will follow.
When the Ameer (i.e. Imam Ali) speaks about the one who enjoys foresight, he mentions that from among his qualities is (his tendency to carry out) deep thinking, analysis, contemplation, and that he avoids hastiness. For this reason, this is our responsibility today.
Psalm 83
A psalm of Asaph.
1 O God, do not remain silent;
do not turn a deaf ear,
do not stand aloof, O God.
2 See how your enemies growl,
how your foes rear their heads.
3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
4 “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
so that Israel’s name is remembered no more.”
5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants
9 Do to them as you did to Midian,
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
10 who perished at Endor
and became like dung on the ground.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
12 who said, “Let us take possession
of the pasturelands of God.”
13 Make them like tumbleweed, my God,
like chaff before the wind.
14 As fire consumes the forest
or a flame sets the mountains ablaze,
15 so pursue them with your tempest
and terrify them with your storm.
16 Cover their faces with shame, Lord,
so that they will seek your name.
17 May they ever be ashamed and dismayed;
may they perish in disgrace.
18 Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—
that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Hear us O Allah most High; Thou have Promised us defence, you are a witness to the murder and bloodshed these jews carry out against the most Innocent Palestinians, women, Nursing mothers, Infants, children, Trully a wicked people…..Remember this promise you made us in the blessed Quran:
Qur’an 4:44 “Have you not considered those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They traffic in error and desire that you should go astray. But Allah has full knowledge of your enemies. Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, saying, ‘We hear and we disobey’ with a twist of their tongues they slander Faith…. Allah has cursed them for disbelief.”
Qur’an 4:47 “O you People of the Book to whom the Scripture has been given, believe in what We have (now) revealed (Quran), confirming and verifying what was possessed by you, before We destroy your faces beyond all recognition, turning you on your backs, and curse you as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be executed.”
Qur’an 4:160 “For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) in that they hindered many from Allah’s Way, that they took usury, though they were forbidden, and that they devoured men’s wealth on false pretenses, We have prepared for those among them who reject [Islamic] Faith a painful doom.”
How the human beings living on earth behave towards each other, regardless of the distance between them, is of the utmost importance to their continuing survival. This is, ultimately, what “religions” are all about, isn’t it?
If you had the power to not only order people how to behave towards each other, but also had the power to enforce your order, what would you order? The answer is so simple.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Some people worship Gods. Some people worship science. Some people worship “money” (their investment portfolios). Some people worship their own power to control others. Some people worship and revel in what their own greed has brought them.
If there were animals living on other planets in the universe — animals who had somehow “figured out” how to quickly travel from one solar system to another — and you had the opportunity to meet one of those animals, what is THE most important question that you would want them to answer, especially considering the march to war that nuclear-powered human animals on our planet are presently undertaking? The question is so simple and its answer so vitally important.
https://clip.cafe/contact-1997/and-permitted-only-one-question-ask-of-them/
Woudnt exactly be animals, but yes, they would observing all the insanity a human species can aspire to
Concluding paragraph is very characteristic of the author, who is both a thinker and a responsible statesman (qualities in short supply today):
“…the one who enjoys foresight, … among his qualities is … deep thinking, analysis, contemplation, and that he avoids hastiness … this is our responsibility today.”
I love everything Nasrallah said,I take everything he said and apply it to my Christian faith and find it fits in perfectly. To be sure,he’s reminded of what I’ve already been taught,but to hear the words again,especially in his eloquent way of speaking (I give praise and thanks to God for giving him this talent),I feel refreshed I must say.
Thanks to God
Congratulations on our strong faith; I am a Muslim ; Rock solid and Bullet proof in my belief, Why Nasrallah appeals to is simple, Its because Faith Talks to Faith ; Just like Power talks to power ; I often tell people to get themselves a faith, any faith is better than no faith ; The Quran refers to the faith less as Deaf, Dumb and Blind, akin to cattle who can only see the patch of grass under their nose, Intellectually dead
Here is an update on the situation in Lebanon. I was going to pile it on to my other “comment thread”, but I think it is more relevant to Lebanon than Iran, so I will put it here on the new Lebanon-related thread. If it doesn’t belong here, or if it doesn’t belong on this site, kindly let me know, dear amarynth, and I will stop posting these.
A few days ago, Ned Price asserted that importing fuel from a country like Iran which is under numerous sanctions, is clearly not a sustainable solution to Lebanon’s fuel crisis.
Three Iranian fuel tankers have already made it to Syria’s Tartus port. And through the Hezbollah chief, Hasan Nasrallah’s initiative, and the positive cooperation of Iranian officials, the fuel from these is being transferred to Lebanon via tanker trucks. If this is not a sustainable solution to Lebanon’s fuel crisis, then the question is: what is the US solution in this regard? Is their solution for the Lebanese people to freeze and starve in the upcoming winter?
A few days ago, Hasan Nasrallah met with the Iranian FM, Hosein Amirabdollahian in Beirut, where he stated that Iran is a powerful ally that does not abuse and humiliate its friends. He was taking a jab at the US, of course, which has not only humiliated its allies in Lebanon, but through direct pressure and sanctions and through the help of Arab regimes has caused an economic collapse and bankruptcy of the financial and service sectors in Lebanon, which has humiliated the entire Lebanese nation.
Ned Price stated that the Iranian action to help save the Lebanese people from heat and starvation and disease, has been done to improve its own image, as a public relations game. This may be partially true, but the question arises, why did the US not do the same thing in order to improve its own image and reputation? The US action demonstrating its image and reputation has been to impose harsh and paralyzing, destructive sanctions against different nations, such as Lebanon and before that Syria, and Palestine and Iran, with the purpose of causing civil war. If this is not the case, then why does the US not directly or indirectly through the Gulf states intervene, by sending fuel, so as to stop Iran, which is providing fuel to all the people of Lebanon without discrimination?
In Beirut, Amirabdollahian also met with the Lebanese Prime Minister and President, where he announced Iran’s readiness to build two electrical power plants in Lebanon, and also to quickly rebuild the Beirut port. This is the best sustainable solution to Lebanon’s crisis offered so far. What remains to be seen is whether the US is willing to offer anything more than the threat of debilitating sanctions in order to intensify the crisis in Lebanon.
While the US threatens Lebanon with more sanctions, Iran has reaffirmed its commitment to continue sending fuel tankers. This demonstrates the main difference between Lebanon’s allies. One bravely stands next to the impoverished and hungry besieged people of Lebanon and provides them with their basic necessities, and the other ally vows to continue sanctions and pressure until the Lebanese nation is destroyed.
And as a strange response to all this, the Lebanese PM, Najib Miqati stated recently that Saudi Arabia is his political “qibla”, ie. where he turns to as a Muslim, and as a politician. And he has stressed that Iranian fuel shipments to Lebanon are a clear violation of Lebanese sovereignty, which he has all but condemned.
Nobody is asking Mr. Miqati to change his “qibla” (the direction he prays to) to Tehran. But I think what the Lebanese people are asking for is that Mr. Miqati turn to his political and religious Qibla, which just happens to be the world’s largest producer and exporter of petroleum, and ask them to send just one shipment of fuel to the port of Beirut or Tripoli, so that the people of Lebanon can make use of it.
https://newsmedia.tasnimnews.com/Tasnim/Uploaded/Image/1400/05/18/1400051814341388123351434.jpeg — Meanwhile, Sheikh Ahmad Ghabalan, a prominent Lebanese religious figure, has stated that what Lebanon needs now is a total anti-US popular rebellion.
He has drawn a clear line: anyone who chooses poverty and hunger and starvation for the Lebanese people, and the continued deepening crisis of the Lebanese nation, instead of the offers from Iran, China and Russia, is a traitor.
His statements came following the complete blackout in Lebanon a few days ago, which resulted from the Al-Zahrani and Deir Ammar power plants going offline after they ran out of fuel oil.
In other words, what the Sheikh is calling for, is essentially the equivalent of the Iranian Revolution of 1979, to completely sever the US stranglehold over Lebanon, which seems to be the only way forward now.
Will the US run away at the last minute, like they did in Afghanistan? Or will they make a tactical retreat from their maximum pressure position now, so as to not completely lose Lebanon?
We will see what we will see.
Thanks for your insights– based on what we are personally witnessing here in the States, the carved in granite corporate/ government (abbreviated “corpgov”) policy is to take the bankrupt US “corpgov” and spear the whole bloody thing into the ground. The motto is: “if it can be wrecked, wreck it”. America has gone to hell in a flaming pickup truck. No doubt the rest of the planet is observing all of this with intense interest.
“No doubt the rest of the planet is observing all of this with intense interest.”
Well, I don’t think that the US is the only country being targeted. The same people who are wrecking the US, are doing the same thing all over the planet in one way or another.
Europe and the collective West are in the same boat as the US.
The Muslim world has been absolutely devastated through war and sanctions, and in the case of Lebanon, corrupt traitorous politicians who serve Israel’s interests rather than their own country’s. (Sound familiar?)
China, while portrayed by some as an alternative to the US, is suffering from an environmental holocaust. The air quality in Chinese cities is simply unfathomable for someone who has never seen it. It is a historically unprecedented phenomenon. The scale of the environmental damage in China can only be understood as proportional to the level of industrialization there.
Oil spills continue to wreck the oceans, forests continue to be cut down, etc, etc.
All of these are part of a policy by Global Zionism, to destroy all of humanity, based on deranged Talmudic hate.
I have been saying for years, and I will keep saying: if the network of billionaires across the planet which make up the Global Zionist Entity decided to, they could turn the Earth into a paradise of plenty and prosperity for everyone, practically overnight. But what do they actually do? Pit the West against the East, in order to waste the resources of both sides on weapons and wars and strife and generally every unconstructive kind of activity imaginable, while they systematically destroy the Muslim world caught in the center between East and West through various nefarious means.
Meanwhile, they’ve got an idiot in Brazil who has vowed a total war against the native Amazonians because they are not Brazilian citizens and they don’t even speak Portuguese, while he cuts down the Amazon rainforest on the pretense of making farmland available for poor Brazilians, when the truth is that he is simply clearing the land so that the oil and gas and minerals can be exploited, and the only reason Brazilians are poor to begin with is because of policies in place to make them poor.
If I were asked to name a handful of countries where Jewish billionaires have no presence today, it would be limited to basically just Iran and Yemen and Syria, and maybe Venezuela. But where they can’t directly wreck things, they do it through sanctions or ISIS.
The entire world today is facing an ecological holocaust. Disease and death is rampant all across the planet on a historically unheard of scale, nevermind covid. And while the air, water and soil of this planet has become so polluted that cancer is quickly rising in the list of the leading causes of death worldwide, the human race is divided into pro climate change and anti climate change groups, both of which are completely off their rocker, like the pro vax and anti vax lunatics. And while they argue their nonsense, Monsanto-Bayer pours more carcinogens into the environment on an unprecedented global scale, while Bayer-Monsanto markets cancer treatments which cost more and more every day.
We live in a world where the elite casually make money off of man-made diseases, like cancer, or covid.
I cringe at the mere thought of how many synthetic fibre masks are being tossed in the garbage every day nowadays. How many landfills are being filled just with used masks nowadays I wonder? And how much money are a select few making off this horrendous industry?
If the human world survives another 100 years, it will be a miracle, no doubt about it.
There is no way all the microplastic is going to come out of the soil and water for a very long time, and there is no way that carcinogenic agricultural pesticides which bind to soil particles can be removed for at least the next century.
If I had to make a prediction, I would say that short of “divine intervention”, there is nothing that can save the world now.
Watch for cancer in babies. Once babies start getting cancer at significant rates, that is the sign that the end of the human race is near.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/children-youth/australias-children/contents/health/cancer-incidence-and-survival
https://www.cancer.org.au/cancer-information/types-of-cancer/childhood-cancers/cancer-council-and-childhood-cancers
Some so called “lucky countries” are already there.
Why is the lucky country so ‘lucky’?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/researchers-radioactive-australian-sheep-bolster-nuclear-weapon-test-claim-against-israel/X4VJH4WYIIKWADYI64RI7QTITY/
https://www.publish.csiro.au/bi/pdf/BI9580382
Six degrees of separation between Israel and every horrible thing that has happened in the world in the last century. Who will wager against it?
Place your bets, ladies and gents.
Hold on my friend; not so fast, Your views reek of secular perspective ; there is a Divine perspective and a confirmed view on the evil f the Tribe of Money Changers, All that is happening is happening well within the divine plan according to Islamic Doctrine; directly from Quran;
Ayah al-Isra` (Chapter Children of Israel, The Israelites) 17:4
4 And we made [this] known to the children of Israel through revelation: Twice, indeed, will you spread corruption on earth and will indeed become grossly overbearing
5 Hence, when the prediction of the first of those two [periods of iniquity] came true, We sent against you some of Our bondmen of terrible prowess in war, and they wrought havoc throughout the land: and so the prediction was fulfilled
Lastly:
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) prophesied that Muslims will make an alliance with Rūm (modern day Russia) near THE end times, and it appears that Muslims now have a historic role to play in the fulfillment of that prophesy.
“You will make peace with the Romans (i.e. Christians / ‘Rum’) in a secure truce/alliance, and you and they will fight an enemy who is behind you, and you will be victorious”
(Hadith No. 4292, Book of the Great Battles, Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 4)
That enemy will most likely be Israel and NATO Allies
I have done detail study of the above sacred sayings and literature and it is clear that Current geopolitical trend is becoming fully aligned with the above prophecies.
Killing of Dajjal
“Then, the son of Mary will descend and go in pursuit of the Dajjal (The leader of Jews), and will overtake him at the gate of Lud (a city 13 miles east of Tel Aviv, Israel), and will kill him.” -Sahih Muslim
This clearly implies that Hazrat Isa (Jesus to christians) (AS) will kill Dajjal.
After the death of their leader (Dajjal), the Zionist Jews will be completely helpless and will run and/or start to hide behind trees and stones as mentioned in this famous Hadith:
“Hazrat Abu Huraira RA reported Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind even stones and trees and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.”
(Sahih Bukhari)
Those of us who look at all this from the sacred tradition ; we know whats coming for jews no matter what oppression and murder they commit ….somethings have been decreed and the believing muslims ( 2 Billion no less) we well know what will become of this wicked little state.
Another update on the situation in Lebanon.
Yesterday, Thursday, a group of Hezbollah and Amal Movement supporters decided to stage a peaceful protest in front of the Judiciary building in Beirut, after a judge had accused a number of Hezbollah and Amal leaders of responsibility for the port explosion.
Hezbollah and Amal MPs and Ministers have stated that the judge Tarek Bitar has voted in favor of the US and has politicized the case of the explosion at the Beirut port.
The protest had been organized over social media, and as the protestors began to make their way towards the Judiciary building, a group of snipers started shooting at them.
At least 8 people were shot dead.
Hezbollah and Amal have issued statements, identifying the shooters as tied to the Lebanese Forces, led by Samir Geagea.
Over 50 people were wounded by the gunmen.
The Army showed up and took control of the situation, among scenes of panic and terror on the streets of Beirut.
A number of people have already started to leave the city towards the north and south.
Many schools were closed, and parents were called to go pick up their children.
The Tasnim media crew reporting from Beirut got caught up in the middle of severe clashes.
It seems that Samir Geagea and the Lebanese Forces take their orders from the US Embassy.
These events are somewhat reminiscent of events leading up to the Iranian Revolution of 1979, and the storming of the US Embassy by people who were referred to at the time as Hezbollahi, ie. the Party of God people.
The Hezbollahis are a force to be reckoned with in Lebanon. Will they storm the US Embassy in Beirut? What will follow after that act? I don’t know, but what followed in Iran was that all the traitors were gathered up and executed, and Habib Elghanian, a Jewish multi-millionaire (if he was around today, he would have been a billionaire) was executed for corruption and ties to Global Zionism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habib_Elghanian
I feel like perhaps that is the fate which awaits Miqati, Geagea, et al.
Very powerful and deep words for all of us to receive and contemplate.
Many Christian thinkers have noticed the deep isomorphism between the Fatimite (Shia, Ismaili, Alevi) branch of Islam and Christianity, especially its Catholic and Orthodox branches. Here I have identified some.
1. Martyrdom of founder (Jesus, Hussein)
2. Divinity of prophet (Jesus, Mohammed)
3. Vicarious Atonement and Salvation (Jesus and Hussein)
4. Primacy of Love as axis
5. Primacy and Holiness of Family (Jesus, Mohammed)
6. Elevated status of women (Mary, Fatima)
7. Established Church, clergy, hierarchy (cardinals, bishops, priests) & Ayatollahs
8. 12 Apostles of Christ, 12 Shia Imams
9. Living Guide, Awaited Messiah, Jesus and Mohammed the Mahdi
10. Acceptance of Musicality in liturgy
11. Sainthood
12. Return of the Living guide – Jesus and Mahdi
Christians do not share these traits with the majority Umarite (Sunni, Sufi, Ahmedi) branch. No wonder, while Islam and Christianity have a 1,400 year long history of warfare, there has never been a conflict between the Fatimite and Christians, who were allies even during the Crusades against the Sunni and yehud.
In his fight against the Big Business and Bankers, Mohammed could not have won without timely Christian help. Admits the Quran:
[5:82] Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Yehud and infidels; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Nazarenes (Christians)”
However, only the Fatimites kept the word, while the Umarites reneged on it. The Kaliphate that sat smack in the middle of the Silk Road was nothing more than an unholy cartel of Muslim muscle and Jewish money that first milked East-West trade with Tariffs, and then blocked it altogether, starving Christians to less than half at turn of 14th century. Finally, the Christians expelled both Muslims and yehud from Spain, finding new routes to Asia, making Muslims and Jews irrelevant to history.
Brilliant Balfour finally pitted the two against each other. Since then there has been a continual peace in Europe, at last.
Dear Syed Abbas
That is an extremely interesting comment. Thank you for posting it!
All your parallels are absolutely factual.
Educated Christians, at least the Orthodox (Rum), are aware of that.
I express this reality in the following way: while there are some profound and irreconcilable differences between Christianity and Islam, there is a common ethos between Eastern Christianity and Shia Islam.
Though Orthodox Russia and Shia Persia did fight each other, but that was really politics in the name of religion.
I wish we had time to discuss this in length…
Again, thank you!
“..while there are some profound and irreconcilable differences between Christianity and Islam..”
Would the Saker care to substantiate this assertion?
What are some of the profound and irreconcilable differences between Christianity and Islam?
Sure,
Islam considers Christ as a prophet
Orthodox Christians see him as God Incarnate
and there are many more, but that is THE main one
cheers
Ok,
But while this example you offer could certainly be considered profound and irreconcilable on paper, what profound and irreconcilable difference does it give rise to in practice, in your opinion?
To reiterate, why does it matter whether Christ is taken to be God Incarnate, or a prophet, ie. someone who God spoke through? And secondly, what is the difference between being God Incarnate and being one who God speaks through, in practice — not in theology?
I am sure you know that in the East and in Mexico, for centuries a science was maintained on “how to become God.” That science comprised, in your terms, the know-how of how to fully surrender to the Holy Spirit, to such a degree that it could no longer be said that the person who had reached that stage was a person, because there was nothing personal left about them, except the appearance of a human being, which was from then on animated by the spirit, and not by personal intent and desire.
In practical terms, when the Muslims say that Mohamad was a prophet, or Jesus was a prophet, it means that they were animated by God’s direct will; when they spoke, it was God who spoke through them, when they acted and performed miracles, it was God who acted through them.
Muslims also believe that Jesus Christ was immaculately conceived, whereas Mohamad was just an ordinary man.
There is no irreconcilable difference here, at least to the eyes of someone who is familiar with the major currents of religious thought throughout the ages.
The word religion itself is from Latin re-ligio, which means to re-link to God and the spirit. So, from time immemorial, since mankind was originally disconnected from God, the great objective has been to reconnect. Some have expressed that reconnecting as becoming one with God, becoming one with all of existence, etc. The reason why it is termed this way is because some people believe that our idea that we have individual existence is an illusion borne from our disconnection from God, from our fall from grace; only God exists, while our existence is a mere temporary illusion, and we come from God and eventually return to God.
Now, while the rest of the world continues along the path destined for it by God, ie. the sun and the stars do not deviate from their path, mankind has indeed deviated through the machinations of the Adversary. To return to our destined path, is to surrender to God’s will, which is to say, surrendering our own personal will and desires, and taking up the ethos of: “God, thy will be done”, and never deviating from that path.
So, the main difference between Islam and Christianity here is that Islam in theory allows for all people to become equal to Mohamad, as Mohamad was just an ordinary man. But Christian doctrine, by the very essence of it, forbids mankind from becoming like Christ, by asserting that Christ was a one-off.
Thus, the difference is that Christianity has set the ideal of religio (relinking) with God apart as something unattainable by man (or has it?) — while Islam in theory allows for any man to become Mohamad’s equal, but don’t tell that to the clerics who zealously and jealously guard Mohamad’s throne and continue to tell Muslim schoolchildren that they can never be as good as Mohamad!
What is another profound and irreconcilable difference, Saker?
To reiterate, why does it matter whether Christ is taken to be God Incarnate, or a prophet, ie. someone who God spoke through?
Because according to Islam declaring Christ as God is idolatry.
What is another profound and irreconcilable difference, Saker?
Sure!
Muslims do not believe that Christ resurrected, That is a core Christian belief too.
And there are many more, ask any educated Muslim and he will list them for you
and the reverse: Christianity never accepted Mohammed as a prophet of God.
Which is a core Islamic belief.
Does the above suffice?
Kind regards
Andrei
Well, if we are only talking about beliefs on paper, then sure, I guess it suffices.
But what comes into play in practice is whether the behavior which results from those beliefs is profoundly different and irreconcilable.
An example that comes to mind is ancient human sacrifice. For a people who did not believe in human sacrifice, having neighbors who would routinely capture and sacrifice their neighbors would have been a profound and irreconcilable difference, and as such, coexistence would not have really been an option. And as history attests, the people who did not believe in human sacrifice eventually wiped out those who did.
Do you believe that these minor differences in theological outlook give rise to an atmosphere of profound and irreconcilable difference between Muslims and Christians in the world today?
My point is, that they don’t. And my evidence is that Armenian Christians escaped genocide and settled in Iran, among Muslims, a hundred years ago, and never left.
Even Judaism is the same. There are still Jews living in Iran, even today. And their presence in Iran goes back centuries, even millennia. They have been free to leave at any time, and even now they are free to leave and go to Israel or Los Angeles as easy as 1-2-3.
If Christians and Muslims and Jews have historically fought, it is as you say, because of political matters.
But under a government which espouses ideals of tolerance and freedom, Jews, Christians, Sunnis and Shias, and Zoroastrians, can all live in the same country and get along.
The Julfa neighborhood of Isfahan was built by a migrant Christian community nearly half a millennium ago, and it still exists today.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Julfa
Is all of this not proof that in practice there is no profound and irreconcilable difference, Saker?
What is the goal, after all, if not merely peaceful cohabitation and coexistence together in this world?
So, what is the point of announcing that Islam and Christianity are profoundly and irreconcilably different?
The reason Muslims and Western people are having problems in the West today, is because of a calculated effort by a certain third party, and not because of theological differences of opinion over whether Christ was crucified or whether he was God. Do you disagree?
And BTW, Saker, just between you and me, when you refer me to an educated Muslim, you are talking about people like this SSA fellow, who is seething with hatred towards Shias and essentially equates them with “wicked Jews”, and when allowed to do so, will probably express the same intolerance towards Christians. This attitude of intolerance which is so common today all over the world, is not a Muslim thing. It is a kind of psychosis.
I would never presume to tell you how to run your site, but if you would accept a friendly suggestion from me, please lay off the “Islam and Christianity are profoundly and irreconcilably different” banter. If you will take my advice, as a brother from Adam, what the world desperately needs today is unity, and not just between Christians and Muslims, but between all people.
Cheers
Dear friend,
We need to unite on the basis of truth and reality.
I will soon post a “Christian Vignette #6”
May I ask you to please read it when it comes out?
Kind regards
Andrei
I read your new vignette, Saker. I must say, it left me a bit perplexed. But regardless, when I speak of unity I am not proposing marriage, or a formal merging of Christianity and Islam, as I’m sure you understand.
When I say unity, what I mean is: people come in all shapes and colors, with a great variety of beliefs, based on their varying histories and experiences of life in this world, and nobody’s beliefs are the truth in an absolute sense of objective reality, because human perception is a subjective experience, and truth and reality are subjective perceptions, and it could be argued that there is no such thing as objective reality, but even if there is, it is beyond the scope of human faculties to grasp, so even if Christ and Mohamad did grasp it, it does not mean that their followers are also grasping it based on reading a book, or based on any other activity, and so the bottom line is that we are all people and we are all wrong.
None of us know the truth, because our sensory perception and our capacity for reason is infinitesimally limited compared to the vastness out there, and most of what is out there is completely hidden from our view. And while the saints and apostles and imams no doubt had a wider view, and Christ and Mohamad even wider still, that has very little to do with their followers, as such things are not communicable through books.
So, saying that my prophet was superior to your prophet because my prophet was God Incarnate, does not mean that you are right and I am wrong; it still just means that we are both wrong, and we are both millions of miles away from the truth, ie. the absolute and ultimate reality of the universe.
If all you wish to say is that you are 1 million miles away from the truth, while I am 1.1 million miles away, then I will happily agree with that, if it means sparing us the divisiveness of a corrosive argument over what is essentially nonsense.
But the fact of the matter is, even if your God is better than my God, it does not necessarily mean that you are better than me, as there are scores of idiots on both of our teams who are really better than no one at all.
So, back to the point, which is that we are all human, and we are all various degrees of wrong, and we are all in the same boat together, and none of us can predict what is going to happen, and none of us know what is going on, and as such, as long as our beliefs and more importantly the acts which are borne of our beliefs do not infringe on the peace and wellbeing of others, reason dictates that we should live amicably together the few short years which we have been allotted in this world, and be friendly to each other, and there is absolutely no reason to bring up issues such as “my prophet was God, your prophet was just a man, and I don’t even accept him as a prophet — and that’s why the differences between us are too wide to gap”.
Such issues are personal in nature, and in the end they pertain to our personal salvation. If you believe that Christ is your way to salvation, that is great, and it is none of my business. And if I want to believe that the Great Bear in the Sky is my path to salvation, who are you to tell me otherwise?
These beliefs are personal matters, and it is nobody’s business what anyone else chooses to believe in their own hearts. And nobody can say that someone else’s beliefs are wrong, because none of us know the Truth.
Unity does not mean marriage or merger between Islam and Christianity. Fellows like SSA will never accept that, because they believe their beliefs are the truth, while I suspect that you yourself will also never accept that, because you in turn believe that your own beliefs are the truth.
I am here to tell you that you may both be wrong, and what you take to be the truth is just a subjective interpretation.
Now, if we all accept that we do not hold exclusive rights to the truth, and we all may be wrong, and that we are all in the same boat, a big blue boat floating off to God knows where, then perhaps we can elicit enough sympathy for one another to not exhibit backlash when we are told that Islam and Christianity are not that different, or when we are told that Sunni and Shia division should not matter!
If I concede that Christ was God and Christianity is an excellent path to salvation, can you bring yourself to say that Mohamad was a prophet and that Islam is an equally valid path to salvation?
If you can’t, that is still fine! Islam, Shiism, and Mohamad are nothing to me. I belong to God, and I do not follow any man.
Still, if you wish to insist that my God is not the real God, that is also fine! I belong to God, God does not belong to me, and I do not profess to know anything about God, because God is by nature unknowable.
So, the bottom line is, he who asserts that other people’s gods are not the real God, needs to look to themselves. What do you profess to know about the unknowable?
As you say, unity needs to be based on truth and reality. The truth and reality here is that none of us really know what is going on, and all of us may well be off the mark by a million miles.
Can’t we all just get along?
I am sorry to say that you completely misunderstand both my intentions and my arguments. If anything, I offered a path of HOW we can get along, in at sustainable, truthful, manner.
I am sorry that you did not understand everything I wrote.
Andrei
Well, what threw me off was the end, Andrei.
“In conclusion, to those who have no time, interest in putative “minor and obscure theological point”, I will simply repeat the words of Christ Himself: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it (John 8:44). As for those who truly seek the truth, I will repeat the words of Saint John the Theologian who warned us all about the deceivers: Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (1 John 2:18-19).”
I accept the designation of “one who has no time for, nor interest in minor theological points”, which is essentially the view which I put forward here before; that these minor issues do not constitute profound and irreconcilable differences, and they are irrelevant as far as friendship and unity are concerned.
Indeed, what I did not understand was your conclusive response. Am I in the first category, eg. liar, or am I the second category, eg. the antichrists, because I propose that we should not put too much importance in minor theological differences?
Completely distorted and twisted view from the traditional Islamic standpoint, where close to 80% of muslims are from different Sunni doctrine and who technically considers Shias a herectics ; it is not surprising that the origin was started by a very devious wicked Yemeni Jew by the name of Abdullah bin Saba’
All early Sunni and Shia sources are agreed and united that the founder of the Shia sect and its core doctrines is Abdullah bin Saba’, the Yemeni Jew.
It is only recently when Shia authorities, along with some Orientalists started to cast doubt on the person of Abdullah bin Saba’, as to whether he even existed?! This is an attempt to falsify history and those involved in this rewriting of history have their own motives. For the Shia, this is understandable. And as for the Orientalists who hold this view, it is also understandable. Perhaps they wish to legitimise the Shia sect as part of a wider agenda of perpetuating intellectual and academic confusion within Muslim circles.
Needless to say the Shias and sunnis Don’t agree on this controversial figure but there is overwhelming evidence in early islamic literature about this controversial and and primarily a conniving and wicked person, who achieved his primary aim of dividing early Muslim community; interestingly just 400 years ago Iran was a sunni region. And the Quranic reference to Muslim and Christian people in our times is directly reference to Eastern Orthodox christians of Russia, Eastern Europe etc…..The shia are not from the mainstream Muslim community; they are tolerated but their doctrine remains suspect.
Nevertheless, it is Shia Iran that is the protector of all Muslims today, and not Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.
I don’t really want to get into a debate with you here, but Shias are followers of Mohamad’s son in law Ali, and the lineage that resulted from Mohamad’s daughter Fatima. Your comment above about wicked Jews notwithstanding, are you saying that Ali and Fatima and Hasan and Hosein never existed?
Are you saying that Ali and Hosein were not true examples of great men and great Muslims?
Again distortion and side stepping the real issue under discussion; but I can comfortable refute your misstatements; Firstly, it is a lie that Shias are protecting Muslims today; they are only supporting fellow Shias in Lebanon namely their own proxy Hizbollah and Ansars in Yemen; both Shias fighting against their own muslim brothers. ; Yes they do speak but do nothing for the Palestinians.
Again: Millions of muslims are being oppressed in India and specifically Kashmir; Only Pakistan is standing by them, on the contrary Iran has close relations with idolator Hindus who along with Zionist jews are core of oppression planning in Kashmir.
Next; Millions of Roheinas muslims are oppressed slaughtered and murdered; again not a word from Iran or any other muslims or anyone else. So the should put to rest your claim of Iran; which is basically a corrupted theocratic state.
Secondly; No believing muslim will ever mention the blessed name of Prophet Mohammad ( Peace be upon him) as you have done most disrespectfully. and Lastly Calipha Ali and Bibi Fatima are highly revered figures of islamic history and from the blessed prophets household; they had no Devine function whatsoever nor were they recipient of any divine message ; they were special in the sense of their relationship with the blessed prophet not because of any divine blessings. So besides being historically flawed your narrative is based on Innovation (Bidah) explicitly forbidden by our religion and its doctrine.
You left out the Syrians. Are they not Muslims?
Just so we are clear, what you are saying is that you agree with Daesh; Shias are not Muslims, is that correct?
“..they had no Devine function whatsoever nor were they recipient of any divine message..”
How do you know this? And who did have a divine function? The Caliph Yazid Ibn Muawiyah?
“Yes they do speak but do nothing for the Palestinians.”
So, you are categorically stating that Iran does nothing for the Palestinians, correct?
/hamas-leader-in-gaza-all-our-thanks-goes-to-iran-for-its-total-support/ — Hamas’ Leader in Gaza: ‘All our thanks goes to Iran for its total support’
Then why does Hamas thank Iran?
“..they are only supporting fellow Shias in Lebanon namely their own proxy Hizbollah and Ansars in Yemen; both Shias fighting against their own muslim brothers.”
What Muslim brothers are Hezbollah fighting? Daesh? But you said “Firstly, it is a lie that Shias are protecting Muslims today; they are only supporting fellow Shias..” — so, if Hezbollah are not Muslims, then why do you say “their own Muslim brothers”?
And are you suggesting that the Yemenis lay down and die in the face of the Saudi-US assault, because the Saudis and Emiratis and all those guys are Muslims?
Oh dear, someone is very confused.
I stand by all my points; it is the Shias who caused the division of the main body of Islam ; that is an undeniable reality.
But that had to come true: there is an Authentic Hadith (Mentioned in Bukhari and Muslim) where the Blessed prophet is reported to have said. Essa’ (Jesus) may Allahs peace be with him….His followers will divide into 72 sects; But mine will split in 73 different sects ; All will be in fire except “One”. So your confusion is exaggerated by mixing Current geo-Politics with religion. So as a doctrine Shiasm is an innovation; and came after the revelation stage.
AS for politics; you seem even more confused; The Trouble and root of evil is The 3000 year old Tribe of money changers and the western alliance; against all muslims; regard less Shia, Sunni…..So they are looking after their interests rightly or wrongly; they have been very successful in creating Daesh, ISIS, and several other proxies using the same very Shia and Sunni division; Now then The Irani Cleric have played into this divisive narrative because the Clerics are pretty corrupt themselves, Dont ever forget your So called Great Ayatollah Khomenei came from France (Paris) in a jumbo jet of Air France, the rest of us are not fools to overlook such obvious symbolism in politics.
Now then: although I personally fully support the Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis, Pakistanis, (Afghans) I am an Pashtoon Afghan and (we well know what warriors are all about) I also support Hizbollah against Zionist jews, But that is all politics, it has nothing to do with the doctrine of Faith; I am the last person who would support the Saudi regime, thats again all political; ……Your confusion is on both fronts.
As you clearly do not accept the event of Qadir Khum, where Mohamad formally declared his son in law Ali as his successor, then all debate is moot, and our respective sides must solve this Sunni-Shia debacle with a fight to the death.
LOL jk. It is your right to believe whatever you want. But you should at least read Ms. Tajik’s articles, so as to become aware of what the Shia side profess, so that you may judge them and condemn them knowing all the facts.
/two-parallel-developments-in-islamic-history-corrupt-and-ruthless-hypocrites-rulers-and-an-authentic-shia-movement/ — pay no mind to the Anonymous detractor and the anti-Islamic comments; the real fight is between Shia and Sunni, right?
“Now then: although I personally fully support the Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis, Pakistanis, (Afghans) I am an Pashtoon Afghan and (we well know what warriors are all about) I also support Hizbollah against Zionist jews..”
Just last week I was debating with someone who I assume was one of your Pashtun kin, on Ms. Tajik’s latest article, where I was expressing the great tragedy of Iran, and how the Islamic world cannot even bring itself to utter Iran’s name. You have just vindicated my point.
Muslims will openly profess support for Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis, Pakistanis, Afghans, and even Hezbollah, but Iranians are always the corrupt traitorous c**ts. And even when an Iranian is exiled from his homeland because of anti-imperialist activity, and then he is deported from his land of exile to a third country, that fact is then held against him!
Yes, Khomeini was an agent of the French. How right you are, indeed.
“But that is all politics, it has nothing to do with the doctrine of Faith; I am the last person who would support the Saudi regime, thats again all political; ……Your confusion is on both fronts.”
I hope the irony of these statements is not lost on you, commenting as you are on an article about how Shia political action is rooted in Faith. Allow me to quote the title of the article:
“Nasrallah on obedience to God & how it guides Shia political action”
Do you know the offers that have been made to Nasrallah, to make him rich and powerful beyond the wildest dreams of most people? Yachts, beach front mansions, private islands, harems full of girls of all shapes and colors, etc, etc.
Look at Mohamad bin Salman’s lifestyle, on his party boats with his “models”. Then look up the house where Ayatollah Khamenei lives.
Of course, the same offers that have been made to Nasrallah have been made to Khamenei, but Khamenei doesn’t even need the Jews to provide such things; he could obtain the same just through his own wealth and power. But look at how he lives.
That is their Faith on a personal level.
Now look at Iranian modern history. Would it have not been more prudent, as far as political interests go, to make peace with the US and Israel, like the Saudis and others have done? Would it have not spared so many great men and women from being assassinated, and martyred in war? Would it have not spared Iranians from being demonized and stigmatized and hated all across the globe, even by fellow Muslims? Would it have not spared Iranians the tremendously unfair sanctions and poverty which they must endure today while they watch the extreme wealth and luxury of the Saudis and Emiratis and those guys?
Political interest, and sane rationality, always dictated that a small weakling state like Iran not go up against the most powerful empire that has ever existed. Every Muslim country followed the path of sanity and logic. But Faith does not always adhere to reason and rationality.
Faith guided the old Ayatollahs, not political interest.
And where are Iran’s enemies today? Where are the US and Israel? They are on the brink of collapse, while Iran is on the threshold of becoming a global power.
The truth of the matter is, everyone can hate Iran and disparage it and sanction it all they want. At the end of the day, it doesn’t seem like 190 against 1 is cutting it, and the Shia are winning anyway.
As far as I am concerned we have a tryst with sacred destiny…….we will find out the truth, you are too confused to carry out any fruitful discussion…..From the stand point of traditional Islam you are a heretic to believe in a concocted and out of context doctrine.
I can’t tell if you are pulling my leg trying to sound like Daesh, or if you are a Daeshi, or what.
“..you are too confused to carry out any fruitful discussion..”
If that were really the case, your duty would be to set me straight and bring me out of my confusion. But it seems to me that what you are really saying is that you feel there is no way to convert me to your particular brand of Islam (Daeshism? Talibanism? Pakistani Salafism?) — so you say there can be no fruitful discussion for you.
For me, our discussion has already yielded plenty of fruit. So, perhaps you are just not very good at distinguishing fruit?
“From the stand point of traditional Islam you are a heretic to believe in a concocted and out of context doctrine.”
From the stand point of traditional Islam, I am an apostate heathen ajam majusi pagan who took the Islam of Arabia, which was like a stone of very little value, and sheltered it in the oyster of Persian-Iranian culture, and turned it into a pearl.
And we continue to grow our pearl today, while the Saudis and the Daeshis forcefully throw their heavily eroded desert stone at the people of the region.
But you are right, I will never convert to your beliefs, not even if the Daesh butcher holds his knife to my throat threatening to cut my head off. I will just have to go on without a head, like many of my brothers.
I am actually disappointed that you gave up so easily. I thought you would have at least tried to dispute something I said — anything at all. But I understand why you don’t want to; sometimes people are just so confused and wrong that the best thing to do is hand them over to the ISIS headchopper, eh?
When ISIS v1 came to Iran in 633 AD, they also found discussion not fruitful, so they raped every woman they could find, and they killed every man who was worth his salt, and they instituted a 300 year dark age, hoping to destroy all trace of civilization from Iran, which is exactly the same tactic ISIS v2 was following in Syria and Iraq.
Traditional Islam, as an ideology, must forever bear the guilt and shame of their brutal and absolutely unprovoked genocide against the Iranian people, who were monotheists and people of the book, according to Mohamad himself.