Saker has decided that up/down voting will be removed. The ‘read more’ will be retained. Thank you all for your feed back.
Saker has asked me to place this in the ‘blog, announcements’ for enhanced visability. My apologizes if you have already reviewed this information. I also have added the current reactions to the changes. Please provide your reactions … if changes are not wanted they will be removed.
The comment software has been changed to allow up/down voting on comments and to present a ‘more’ button after a comment displays 150 words. Please send all feed back (both positive and negative) by one of these two methods:
1. to the mods via a comment
2. email saker-webmaster@yandex.com
Reactions to new features after 36 hours of running
1. Up/Down voting
Most of the negative reaction is against the up/down voting. This feature can easily be removed if the Saker community see no value in it. We will run with the up/down feature over the weekend and then review the comments and decide to retain or eliminate the feature.
2. Read/more
So far most commentators like the ‘more’ feature. It makes the the comment threads ‘cleaner’ (IMO) and there has been little negative response.
3. Javascript Security
Javascript is already in use in WordPress so this is not a new. (wordpress is the blogging application that is used by Saker). Javascript is a client side application that is use to improve the clients usability and presentation of data. Security exposure for javascript is normally found in filling out forms and logins. As the only interaction that the the commentator has with our server is the posting of comments security exposure is almost nil.
4. Turn off javascript
firefox has a addon called QuickJava. You can use this to toggle javascript on/off if you do not desire to have javascript running on you machine.
Thanks for your response
Herb (webmaster)
Regards
Herb (Webmaster)
Thanks Saker (& co)!
Great additions.
I would suggest that the abbreviated part of the comment before clicking “read more” had not it’s paragraph lines/spaces removed, it makes it hard to resume reading from where one left off. This already occurs with main articles, but now with comments the uncomfortable routine might become a tad too cumbersome. (I totally understand this is easier said than done, and goes deep how the platform runs, anyway…)
Regarding thumbs up/down, I have mixed feelings: I think it is quite useful to take the pulse of how a certain comment makes traction, but I also understand how realizing the popularity of a certain message might influence ones own view. I would suggest keeping an option of showing/hiding results on per user basis (cookies? should be easy)
Again, great job everyone supporting this cyber vineyard.
The new design looks really good. I agree with Vasco da Gama that it would be much better if paragraphs weren’t removed in shortened comments before clicking ‘read more’. If that is not possible than maybe add an option which would show all comments on the page in non-shortened way?
I read comments on my computer and I would prefer non-shortened comments but shortened comments are probably better for mobile phones.
Oh, and while typing this comment and reloading the page to post it, there was already big voting down of comments that were half an hour ago voted up. Voting up/down is a bad idea. This is just a magnet for voting trolls.
Some people use the text-speech facility on their phones to listen to websites while driving/jogging/working. As long as the compressed comments dont interfere with this use case, I’m fine with visual compression.
How does that work?
Do you need a special device?
How do they select which part of the page, which article, they want to listen to?
Thanks
If thumbs up ranking changes the display order (e.g. highest 1st) then also provide a user choice option to have the list in chronological order (last first, or first last etc) — this makes it easier to follow thread when dipping in and out etc.
The up-down feature will used by the kiddies to play childish games. Really a retrograde idea. The new lay out requires JavaScript, another retro step.
Indeed. I have seen entire discussion threads undermined and destroyed by petty nastiness of popularity competition — this should be watched carefully.
Agree, the adults in the room don’t a thumbs up or down to decide if they should or should not read the comments. Too much like facebook – this site is better than that
adult?
the mind control mods are now supported by the inability to apply thumbs down :-)
This blog is more a joke than being funny.
Ah, is that another ip address block I feel coming on? Good – I shouldn’t really be wasting time anyway.
hey vt – I agree – I liked the old way better
‘See more’ is super helpful. I’m willing to experiment with the icons and see where it takes us, though at first glance they seem a little awkward. Share will be helpful as well- much brilliance here.
Big thanks to the invisible hands of the mods!
k
This is off topic, dear moderators, please put this somewhere else if it is not a correct place here but don’t delete.
Here is a video a speech from a Croatian M.P. which have the western media suppressed, please help us the Croats to distribute it.
This young man Ivan Pernar is a MP of Croatia, a Catholic.
Such words have not been spoken in Serbian or Montenegro parliament.
Ivan Pernar, a Croatian activist and Member of Parliament through the member of the Living Wall political party, has delivered a powerful speech in Croatia’s parliament denouncing NATO’s and Washington’s actions in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan.
He went onto criticize Croatia’s role as a NATO member and highlighted how old Croatian weapons from the wars that broke up Yugoslavia ended up in the hands of jihadists in Syria.
Days ago he said that NATO is “posing a threat” to the whole world, “just like Germany under Hitler.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_-mWiYTHWA
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/video-croatian-mp-delivers-powerful-speech-syria-libya-nato/
Thanks for putting the video up. As you say, a powerful speech.
Ivan Pernar is a Croatian activist and politician, member of the Zivi Zid populist political party (literally translated as “Living Wall”). He is well-known in the country for organized demonstrations in February 2011 outside the Croatian government building aimed at forcing the resignation of then-Prime Minister Jadranka Kosor. Demonstrations turned into to mass protests and Pernar was arrested several times for disturbing public order. After the demostrations he founded the Alliance for Change party, which turned later into Zivi Zid political party. As its candidate Ivan Pernar was elected to the Croatian Parliament in 2016.
Read more: https://sputniknews.com/politics/201610271046804375-nato-threat-nazis-hitler/
Often I read a comment that I agree with, but because I have nothing to add I do not reply. Some of these comments I see no one replies to, to give agreement or otherwise. Whoever wrote the comment may think they are just pissing into the wind. The up-tic is good in this regard. Not sure about the down-tick though. Genuine posters, if I don’t agree with them at times, I will give them an argument/debate rather than down-tick. That is something that could be abused?
And what I just found out by up-voting your comment is that there is no real way to see how many up/down votes you get since the number displayed in the box is just a balance. You had -1 and after I voted it is now 0.
I second the motion for removing the down-tick option. If people disagree with a comment, they should say why.
I feel similarly and think you have found a good solution. It is satisfying to let a writer know the comment is appreciated, and if you don’t like, well, who really cares anyway?
Thumbs up to your great idea!
k
“Often I read a comment that I agree with, but because I have nothing to add I do not reply. Some of these comments I see no one replies to, to give agreement or otherwise. Whoever wrote the comment may think they are just pissing into the wind. The up-tic is good in this regard.”
On that one I agree 100%.
“I second the motion for removing the down-tick option. If people disagree with a comment, they should say why.”
On that one I agree as well.
Regards
Kent
Must agree with Peter Au , when someone artticulates an idea well , there is no need to restate it , however if you disagree , you should state why , rather than a down tick , which is too easily childish.
Thanks for your great publication . Big Cheers to all .
There might be people who don’t support the multipolar world, who would never donate any money to this blog even if they were rich, so if those people have right to vote they will always try to put down pro-multipolar views.
The solution is like at The Guardian to delete all “negative” comments or not to allow them to appear here.
Let them go to the pro-natoist or to the pro anglo-zionist e-newspapers.
That is called censorship, if you can’t stand opinions different from your own, internet is not the place for you. And I am fairly certain this site endorses debate and discussion, not censorship.
My experience with this is that the “Trolling For Shekels” call centres in down town Tel Aviv completely love this feature. Just look at RT who´s comment section btw runs on an israeli software…
That is true, a login feature that only allowed those logged in to comment and vote would to an extent solve that. I really dont see why thesaker just adopts disqus.
Saker, webmaster & Co,
I agree “vot tak”:
— no votes “up” or “down”!!!
— no java script nedeed to read intire comments!!!
— no java script to post comments!!!
if new features stay in the site, can do 2 serious problems:
1) swarm of jewish troop or “friends” (some evangelic sects, surveillance sites “Anne Frank Project”, “Proyecto Centinela”), or radical islamics, uninformed islamics and “outage” or “politically correct” commentators can vote to change (for or against, intentionally or not) text’s essence; if you can express opinion, post a comment too, although short;
2) a) java script decrease browser security (thesaker.is can be infected without admin. know) doing automatic script execution and
b) activated scripts can retain some infomations of users, without their knowledge, in the visited site.
If this is so, and these changes will add more insecurity and are able to offer our “shadowed enemies” more data aboyt us, I will be the first in dropping off commenting ( for the most probably joy of some commenters here and even staffers) .
I havd had enough problems with my computet with the other format so as to get more. Then, I will limit myself to read, anyway, I was already considering it since the ubiquitous campaigning for “The Donald” in almost every thread.
Also, must I understand that the former resources from wordpress to enlight something in the text are not anymore available? So, we have migrated from wordpress to javascript?
I think that this issue should have been well explained in advance since, as is informed by vot tak and others, this changes imply more insecurity gor ys, commenters.
So, in short, I am not glad with the changes, even when the “read more” utility, works fine with phones and seems interesting to get to the new/last comments and perhaps read the longest when more time is available. Also is better seen in a phone whl is respondibg to whom, which previously, was not clesr.
Anyway, I will sacrifizied any of these utilities if in exchange I am offering more opportunities to anybody yo control me or damaging my devices, as has happened to me already several times. Last time a “troyan”.
Also I may add that the time I had a “starting hijacking virus” it came into my computet through a java actualization
hi Fatima,
to increase your security and privacy, try use “Comodo IceDragon” (a bit more secure than Firefox) or the known “Firefox”.
>> please, DON’T USE “Int.ern. Ex.pl” or “Ch.ro.me” (2 b*llsh*t for security and private navigation).
i use Firefox in most sites, but ever doing some additional settings:
— use “paranoic mode”… lol… (serious: search in duckgo something like “increasing firefox security”)
— use “DuckDuckGo” for default search engine (google or yahoo in last resouce if duckgo don’t find what u need);
— use “noscript” and “ghost”; disable or deny all permissions (in both) and only allow one by one the temporary permissions if the site don’t work in needed functions (search in “http://addons.mozilla.org/” to find noscript and ghost);
— set cookies “i close Firefox” (menu: tools/options/privacy);
— etc, etc (need read again and again about security and privacy)
if u know or can learn a bit more about navigation, browsers and how to use, try “Tor Browser”
i use Tor when i need strong protection in privacy.
i hope i was helpful… good luck!
Thanks a lot for the advice, although I fear I will not be able to do all those things.
I left Chrome time ago when the “start hijacking virus” issue. And explorer even before.
I use Firefox but have no idea how to able or disable scripts, adds and so on.
When my computer is able again I will search about Tor and all that.
Regards and health, comrade.
You might also like to try Yandex. I have used it for some time now, and find it great. I have none of the issues reported by some using other browsers, I get no spam or unwanted ads. and it has a permanent translator fucntion, so I can go to Russian Newspapers and it does an instant translate which is pretty good – I get to understand 90% of most articles. Best of luck. mod PS
Hi MOD!
I like the new features a lot, only I agree with Vasco de Gama that it’s not easy to resume reading when the lines are re-arranged after the read more button. As for Java and the rest, I have been using Yandex all the way and never had a problem.
I have found Yandex browser and search engine good. A particular court case in Australia that I was searching for with chrome and duckduckgo search turned up no results after several hours of searching and numerous search terms. Yandex brought it up first search, second or third from the top. Baidu search engine for anything China or Chinese language.
This websit now is a opa (one page application) for better user experience, JavaScript has always been used on this site.
hi J,
ha ha, today is the first day who i active scripts to comment, because the topic is relatively strategic.
i never used read this (or another) site with scripts activated, seeing only text and some images (jpg, ico, png) in the pages.
i never heard a podcast (need scripts too).
i NEVER seen a video in this site… sometimes i copy the link and watch in another browser with minimal configuration to open image.
all the best!
Hi be careful,
I hope enable JavaScript make it a better experience for you.
I also should correct my mistake of opa in my above comment. It should be SPA(Single Page Application).
Web development is new to me. The internet let us learn new ideas, and technologies any where, any time, at any age, help us staying young and smart.:-)
Take care!
hi again J,
i turn on javascript today only to some important comments, because most users do not know security and privacy.
finished this comments, i will return my browser sets to high security and privacy mode.
and i will continue watching the sake’s pages in poor (BUT SECURE) visual mode… :-)
i come here by quality texts and comments, not by page visual.
and u are welcome to agree or not… lol…
all the best!
(oh Lord, where is my medication? forgetting things… lol…)
Saker, webmaster & Co (again),
i forgot an important argument for “NO USE” javascript in this crap “read more” item…
if the saker’s site is not monitored by “others”, all ok!
but… the site’s admin. knows who (IP) clicked in each “read more”… all logged…
assume that our site is being tracked by “others” (without admin. knows)…
then each “click” (it means EACH USER’S IP) in blasted “read more” is monitored, logged and known by the “others”…
it’s not a nice thing to worry? (why expose users for nothing?)
brrr… “nice visual page” X “likely free user exposition”… worth it?
all the best!
@ Mod/webmaster/Saker.
I no longer care who crawls around in my computer, but for those that do, or those that wish to remain anon while reading comments, this point made by “be carefull” on the javascript and “read more” may need to be addressed.
Thank you Peter. I think I’ve already responded but let me state this again. The security risks with javascript would exists in gaining access to the server or retrieving data from our servers. In the case of this blog the reader/commentator only interaction with our server is the sending and reading of comments. No login is required, no email, nothing but a few words are exchanged. As to ip address being exposed … this is exposure all internet users experience … The solution for ip address exposure is the TOR browser (which is well known to all of the 3 letter agencies) or use of a VPN. These options are available to anyone that wants to hide their IP address.
Hope this helps
Herb
Am fine with the changes except the voting; it’s a horrible idea. What is it supposed to measure? the extent of a comment’s proximity to group think? Its affinity to trolldom?
A really useful feature would be to have the option of viewing comments in strict chronological order, regardless of where they belong as sub-comments. Because on popular posts, as the hours and days go by, the only practical way not to miss new comments (as far as I know) is to scroll down over and over again.
Agree, totally, do not see the point on this voting issue except for to mantain the views more off line with those of the site low enough so ad to have lesser vissibility.
Yes, the need to scroll through everything to find follow ups to previous comments is nagging. Thinking about this regarding a comment system on another site, it occurred to me that, via a user side, view timestamp it could be possible to deemphasize somehow preexisting comments (compared to their moderation timestamp, not edition). Deemphasis could be: graying out those comments, tabbing them (as gmail does to mail conversations), or any other creative approach. Note that any of these features should rely on a fall back for the user to recover normal viewing of those comments.
On another note: vot tak, mentions the javascript requirement for some features as a step back. I tend to agree with this, as long as a flat text is available for noscript users or less capable browsers, you should have it covered. (unless there’s other objections that I’m missing)
Regarding thumbs up/down, it does now look to me that it could easily get out of hand. Restricting to logged users could be a way to circumvent “issues”. I also think it should take less space and be less prominent, even better if with the option to be suppressed into a consultative box/area.
completely agree with vot tak and be carefull..
I am a longtime reader of this site and very much appreciate the thoughtfulness of comments, in fact the best quality of comments of any site I know.
Part of this surely comes from the moderation rules, like no one-word, mee too comments allowed.
Now, this up/down vote would go completely against this rule. I am convinced it would degrade the comment section by attracting ‘the deplorables’ and with it the value of the blog.
Also, observation: the +- war is already on right now!
Items that had some plus are now in the minus, so this shows that even if the feature was desired it is not well done. It should show at least the numbers of + and – votes separately, so one can see that this is a controversial subject with eg 20+ and 21-, now it shows only -1 in this case which tells nothing, any troll can pump any number to anywhere, they know how to override the multiple vote blocker.
In short, a gimmick that has not much value and would likely backfire.
Israel’s demands get met :
https://www.rt.com/news/364649-barzani-kurds-iraq-mosul/
The break up of regional states into small insignificsnt, sectarian entities that will allow Israel unfettered room to expand, now kicks into high gear.
Syria is next, and then …………. and ………. and so on and so forth.
Looks great, I am all for more features, thought I wonder why you just dont join disqus? May I also suggest adding a login feature? Re-writing your nick everytime you post a comment is tiresome.
disqus stores all comment on their site. This is against the security policies adopted by Saker. Our servers are located in Iceland and all reader/commentator data are stored only on these machines and inaccessible to third parties. Will explore the login idea. … mod-hs
At disqus they ask for your email address even when posting as a guess.
I am not willing to give my email adress to anybody I do not know or do not want for to make a comment.
I prefer no login as it is.i also like this format a lot better than disqus.
much better… thanks!
Kudos, Well Done!
I am pleasantly surprised by this feature. Unlike most sites running these types of comment features, this one doesn’t appear to be silently sponging up my data allowance in the background.
I run ABP, Ghostery and ZAP and many custom filters to stop those type sites from wasting my allotted bandwidth.
Your comment section works great with these filters running full blast.
Now that I’ve used the “read more” feature for a while I’m going to have vote against this feature, as well as the up/down voting and the javascript, which I already commented on earlier. The “read more” feature requires one to do more clicking, making more effort to view the site, and actually slows down browsing comments.
My main objection to javascript is while it works OK on this site using a phone, on some other sites I have problems using them if javascript is on. RT being one of these, for example. This means having to keep turning the feature on or off and reopening browsers. A lot more work.
Maybe add options for order comments by newest, oldest, best, and add a top button to top of comments or article.
Just tried replying to my last comment and the JavaScript failed completely. The comment box appeared, then disappeared when I clicked inside to begin writing. Went to the box at the top of the comments and no post button appeared.
The old adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” I think may apply here. :(
Reactions to new features
1. Up/Down voting
Most of the negative reaction is against the up/down voting. This feature can easily be removed if the Saker community see no value in it. We will run with the up/down feature over the weekend and then review the comments and decide to retain or eliminate the feature.
2. Read/more
So far most commentators like the ‘more’ feature. It makes the the comment threads ‘cleaner’ (IMO) and there has been little negative response.
3. Javascript Security
Javascript is already in use in WordPress so this is not a new. (wordpress is the blogging application that is used by Saker). Javascript is a client side application that is use to improve the clients usability and presentation of data. Security exposure for javascript is normally found in filling out forms and logins. As the only interaction that the the commentator has with our server is the posting of comments security exposure is almost nil.
4. Turn off javascript
firefox has a addon called QuickJava. You can use this to toggle javascript on/off if you do not desire to have javascript running on you machine.
Thanks for your response ( I will also post this over in Cafe)
Herb (webmaster)
Hi Herb,
1. Regarding #2 “Read/More”, can you add a option button at beginning of comment section for user to choose if they want to display every paragraph in a comment or using more?
2. Adding option for “newest/oldest” will save reader time when came back to read newly added comments.
3. A “Top” button will save reader time to scroll back to top to see if there are any new comments since last time.
Hi, Herb and J
Regarding #2 “Read/More” button I would suggest using “All comments open” as a default because, as Belgian pointed out, find function (ctrl f) will not work properly if comments are half collapsed. Of course you could click button to open all comments and then do the search.
But what about search within the site function (site:thesaker.is ………)? I use it sometimes. All longer older comments are more or less out of reach unless “All comments open” is set as a default on a whole site.
Anon, I meant that button for #2 at beginning of comment section for all comments. User only need to click it once until she/he changes his mind.
Thanks a lot for the explanations. I was really in the need.
On the issue of turning JavaScript off, I have no idea how to do it but thanks for the advice anyway.
Fatima Manoubia, you can read more about Firefox QuickJava addon here
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/quickjava/
Hey hey hey Webmaster (aka Web-Herb… lol), Saker et al,
i think i found the solution… claps for me! (what a dumb & swanky self compliment… lol)
now, serious: in each article, in comment’s top (below the “Leave a Reply” box), do a button (working with html, no javascript needed) with 2 options: OPEN ALL COMMENTS and “READ MORE” MODE COMMENTS.
therefore, the user choose to have all comments opened or choose which comment to open.
some ideas…
1) in selected article page, all the big comments are opened in “READ MORE mode” (by default) to facilitate this page be loaded in smartphones or tablets, or to please “fetching & fashionable” connoisseur (users).
To “ordinary” user (who like read, think and write), there is “OPEN ALL COMMENTS” option.
2) all the people will be happy!!! users don’t disturb Saker, Web-Herb, Mods with preference’s questions… ta-da! (it means done!)
and the Peace and Harmony returns to Saker’s blog… THE END! (lol)
3) any better idea?
I will vote twice for an ‘open all comments’ switch. To a few of us it’s important. So – voter fraud. but – this is not an election.
I’ll chime in with my two cents…
if it ain’t broke don’t fix it…
I don’t like the truncating of messages with the “read more” function…
I think it makes things harder not easier…as one commentator pointed out…more clicking for one thing…and this makes it harder to just scan through long posts as a first “take” which I find useful…
also see the moderator is basing this feedback on number of votes rather than the logic of arguments presented in those votes…
Sorry – don’t like it.
It looks too much like other sites now.
See no point in the up/down vote – it’s not that kind of site. And it will attract trouble …
Also, do not like the ‘boxes’ around the comments.
I am very much with the ‘if it ain’t broke’ camp….
@ Anonymous
“A really useful feature would be to have the option of viewing comments in strict chronological order, regardless of where they belong as sub-comments….”
Agree with this bigtime…
This is a very practical suggestion if it can be implemented…searching through the entire thread to find replies is a lot of work…and you have a good chance of missing something new…
I usually post comments not as replies but as a new comment that gets placed at the bottom…and simply reference the original poster I was referring to…
Yes I understand the problem. New posts are difficult to find if they are part of a comment thread. I will look around for a solution. As a workaround you may use the RSS “Comment Feed”. This shows the last 30 comments in time sequence. The RSS “Comment Feed” is located at the very top of the page under ‘RSS’ (3rd selection from left). Mouse over the RSS and select ‘Comment Feed’. The last 30 comments in time sequence (newest to oldest) will be displayed. If 30 comments are too few the number can be increased.
regards
herb (webmaster)
Appreciate a reminder that this is an option.
Hi Herb,
I did not know that the Rss Feed when selected up the front page on the left is giving you the last 30 comments in time sequence. I was going to the Rss Feed down the front page where only a few comments are showed, the number depending on the lenght of some.
This oblied me to keep picking on the site several times a day if I want to keep aware of all posted.
Anyway, on smartphones the up the page option is not available and when you pick down, you get only a weird and difficult to read version of only a few comments, since these appear duplicated.
Some news websites eg Anna news etc have a separate column on right with “trending” or most popular or ” most replies by number” that would help to identify those more intensive contentious or popular discussions threads…….useful parallel?
Us ” oldies” are used to the old format…..and I usually scroll to bottom of thread and work my way back up stopping to check what I may have posted and whether anyone might have replied, so a “likes” actually makes my efforts——!—-seem worthwhile but is that a form of attention seeking probably not , but maybe if I do not get likes would I be discouraged even though things are read…..a counter on the “read more “could indicate ,might then assist that but then we have the site visited figs, whether that is accurate cos I visit saker several times a day……….new format does look high quality, very professional easier to read, does that assist our outreach to a wider audience and keeps us up to scratch with the other “elite” or “genre” so to speak discussion websites such as the Duran which looks nice and clean. Here in cafe especially we can have intensive discussions…..should the same protocols, modus operandi of website apply all across saker categories probably so.
We need to keep reaching out, and locating ourselves between extremes of twiiter and some PhD thesis is not easy…..but thank goodness commentators are coming forward with all kinds of information links etc etc, and saker has gone from strength to strength internationally due to the selection of articles, analysis, sitreps etc, that is the mainstream being of this site…….us commentators are privileged to be able to add and discuss so much…….some websites would just put up the articles to avoid the spammers and so on, of course which we need to prevent, or at least respond to genuine posters and enquirer’s approaching this website.
also noticed another change I don’t like…
seems the UTC time stamp has been replaced by a “xx hours…yy minutes ago stamp…”
I really don’t understand this…the Zulu time stamp is quite useful…because it does not move…
I noticed some discerning commentators…when responding to the many “Anonymous” posts will reference the poster’s UTC time stamp to specify which particular Anonymous they are referring to…this capability is now gone…
It’s true.
Agree.
The time/date stamp has been setback to the old way.
I like that.
Adding UTC at the end, as it was before, would be even better for all those who may not know what time zone it refers to.
Likes and see more is not my thing. I am to old for that. Our conversations should be decent och nobody should be freezed out.
after doing a bit more reading in the new format I also find the ‘Read more ..’ not a good idea for this blog. Normally I read all the comments here, skipping one is the exception. In light of this the Read-more feature would probably force many of us readers to do much more clicking instead of simply scrolling – not good!
On a more philosophical note, it also sends the message that short entries are more desired, that the reader is assumed to have a short attention span anyway and thus expected to skip longer texts (if not so, why do we then try to ‘help’ him with this feature?)
Instead a view in comments that shows which are new would be very helpful, as already mentioned by a few. A simple latest-on-top option should be good enough for that. If more context is needed, we can always switch back to the normal threaded view.
I wrote earlier that JavaScript worked fine here. With more use I’m finding it barely works at all. The zoom ranfomly changes, it adds and removes words randomly. Refuses to allow scrolling inside the comment window. Everything is erratic. Lost a long post due to javascript crap making it impossible to go on writing it. Won’t be wasting my time doing that again.
As far as I am concerned, forcing use of this retarded rubbish has effectively broken the site.
Flankerbandit
“I usually post comments not as replies but as a new comment that gets placed at the bottom…and simply reference the original poster I was referring to…”
Good idea.
Herb
Perhaps there is a way to set up comment replies so they reference the name and time stamp of the comment they are a reply to, and then have the reply post at the bottom? This way the newer comments will be at the bottom instead of scattered throughout the thread. And if it can be done with the site reverting back to not needing JavaScript in order to post a comment?
As a workaround you can use the RSS ‘Comment Feed’. Take a look at my response to Flankerbandit for details.
herb
Thanks, Herb, I’ll give it a try.
I personally don’t like this new format – much more impersonal…yuck
@ vot tak
“…As far as I am concerned, forcing use of this retarded rubbish has effectively broken the site…”
Second that…
I can say for myself that the number one thing for me here is the community…there is an excellent group here and I for one am interested in hearing what they have to say…
all these “improvements” detract from that in a big way as far as I can see…to the point that I’m sure some may decide to just tune out…
If I was interested in attention-deficit snippets I would go to twithead or whatever it’s called…
The site brain trust should realize that they have a good thing here and one has to wonder why they are tinkering with success…
As a dedicated, long-time airhead, I am enjoying the color, the feedback, if only as up, down or no votes, and even the controversy that change has caused.
I also respect the opinions of old-hands here as I am not one.
I think that there is no harm in trying these things for more than one or two days to see which ones remain irritants and which ones reveal some perhaps hidden charms.
I would lose the downvote, the sooner the better. I could do without the upvote too; this site is all about discussion, analysis and links to relevant information -not soothing egos.
I dislike the compressed format as it wrecks readability and forces more clicks and encourages shorter dumbed-down ‘headline’ comments.. This isn’t twits for Twitter.
In short I like it the way it was.
Go ahead and compress this -see if I care.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Unless Hitlery wins. Then pull out all the stops, and try everything. Without panicking. Or wasting time.
The thumbs up and thumbs down is retarded. Popularity is the disease that destroyed the United States, by turning its inhabitants into other-directed mush-heads.
I wonder if any change was, or really is, needed. I was entirely comfortable with the previous arrangement and found it especially warm and communal, a symposium of some particularly fine dialogue. I saw no defect. Kudos also to the fine moderation we all benefited from. Many Thanks!
But since this matter does not seem now to be under consideration, and only the discussion of up and down and abbreviated comments are to hand, I will address these:
Up and Down is a poison pill. There are already “trolls”…. Up and Down looks to me like a singularly bad idea. This seems so obvious to me that I am shocked that it is even under consideration, let alone actual experimentation. At the very least, even if unsullied by malicious trolls, the value and continuity of the discussion and dialogue would be ruined by disordered change. This seems very foolish to me, ruinous.
The benefit of the comments to the community lies, surely, in the value of dialogue. Dialogue depends on the transmission and reception and full consideration, on a shared basis, of ideas. How then can abbreviated argument, which ruins, or damages, the smooth exchange of ideas benefit the quality of dialogue? How can either of the things under consideration do any good at all?
Hi, Saker Admin,
I have noticed that with this new format I am not able to add links like before when posting with my phone.
Before, I opened a new window and when returned to the thread, although apparently my answer nit there, when picking reply, all what I have written appeared and I had only to paste the link copied in the other window.
This facility is no more available with this new format that do not keep your comnent. If you go to search for a link to add, each time you have to rewrite your comment.
Just have made a comment in the cafe to which I would have liked to add a video. I must now wait for the approval of the comment to then add the link through a new comment.
So the comments number would multiply without necessity.
One thing I like in this new format us the view of the commenters name highlighted in blue, which makes easier to locate comnents.
I will look into this issue.
herb (webmaster)
Please add the option of sorting the comments by “newest first”. I mildly dislike most of the updates but not so much that I’d stop commenting because of them… Just my two cents.
I do not like the ‘read more’ feature.
It is a pain to click so many times to read the interesting and usually lengthy streams of outpouring that so many of the regulars are known and loved for.
The ‘read more’ button will just become a skip over button.
I have to agree this Read More thing is crap, annoying irritating. The meat or conclusion, the nub of the point being made usually comes towards the end after initial waffling. A lot of people load up pages then read them in a leisurely, studious fashion, off-line some time after loading the page. It is even more annoying when all that remains turns out to be just a sentence or word. Someone has already made ‘Read Less’, the default setting, soon it will be just feel-good cartoons.
I agree too on a linear chronological layout, nesting is less useful than it seems,unless you’re into comments on comments and targeting of and bickering with and amongst commenters. It kills spontaneity and impedes interaction, the macro-level dialogue is split into little cliques and spin-offs getting ever further from original topic. Important developments pertinent to the original article are lost in crevices. Similar to the front-page changes from what is now /latest-articles /blog, it is turning into more of a magazine or digest than ‘live’ news we’re not getting anywhere else.
The thumbs up down is an abomination, the only advantage is it might but probably won’t cut down on the content-free “Great POst!!!” “you rock/suck” rejoinders, which the nesting, counter to this, will encourage greatly.
Flankerbandit 1:53
It worked fine. Why change it? Who does this rubbish benefit? 3 guesses and the 2nd and third are not needed. Saker was a well working site, useful to all. It is not now. Again who does this govno benefit?
I am only briefly on line have downloaded the page and will read comments later but I noticed some criticism of ‘read more’. I HATE this feature as I download many pages of articles while briefly within internet range then put them in a text file and text reader and study through wireless headphones while busy with other things. Going through every page and expanding the ‘read more’ is a huge time waster and annoyance and then so many are missed so comments often get cut off while I’m listening. There’s my perspective ladies and gentlemen. My vote is get rid of ‘read more’.
Re:”read more” just give an option to expand all comments. that would work well for downloader-computer readers like me.
The general tone of reason found in the writings on this site used to be reflected in the simple, accessible presentation and easy of access on older or secured (no javascript) and offline devices. Until…
“Read more”
-goes in against my habit of loading a page when online keep it open in browser for reading offline later during traveling
-goes in against my habit of saving a page (Firefox – safe as PDF) to read it offline later and hopefully in 10 years.
-from now on I can’t load the comments on my old Nokia N900 / 808 which have Javascript disabled by default for security and performance reading so I need a modern device to read it on the road. (meaning mostly iphone or google Android – the empire’s spydevices?)
-reading comments on a modern smartphone has also become a tedious job: the constant pushing “read more” then refocus on the text.
Seriously, how can anybody find this an improvement? This is not a technical forum where you can decide with a blink of an eye which comment to ignore.
Scrolling on modern devices never went smoother and now you introduce an anti-scrolling feature?
-Energy management unfriendly: we are obliged to read interactively with constantly open internet connection.
Reading comments in real time now sucks mobile battery when reader is entering an area of minimal mobile data coverage (each time a comment “read more is clicked” internet connection is made, regardless connection quality. Bad connection means more battery usage.)
Let me decide when is the right time to load a page, please.
-incomplete searching within webpage within comments (ctrl f – command f): text will be hidden until user serial clicks all read more
-my IP address activity will be logged to any comment I click (different from just “accidentally” opening a page), a possible ticket to a waterboarding session in 2020.
Conclusion:
In my opinion this feature does not stop the empire’s bots to index keywords, while it creates more hassle for the human reader to get to the information.
If you really think there is value in this feature for some readers on some devices, why not :
-allow the to “open all comments” from starting of comment thread
-by default open all comments when no javascript detected (now “read more” does do nothing)
All in all, “read more” is a perfect way to insure that loyal readers will not be read the comments carefully and comfortably like before.
“score”
Again, you introduce more work for the reader. It give some kind of obligation to upvote.
Clicking on my most modern smartphone is a hit and miss after returning to the page from doing other task so again, rather frustrating experience.
Conclusion: do what you want
If you want to improve something, color code the newer comments by day or half days passed.
Thanks.
Being relatively new to the Saker community (at least in terms of commenting) I was hesitant to point out deficiencies, even at a technical level. Since, however, the discussion is launched, here are my two cents…
When I saw a new comments feature I said to myself: “Great, at least we’ll get a little WYSIWYG support, so as not to write html code just to make a comment look decent and act usefully in its hyperlinks”.
Sadly, no…
The new features are (a) a voting systems and (b) a truncated view of long comments.
a) This, in my humble opinion, will only attract lazy trolls who do not even care to type a few words, and will foster a “mine is bigger than yours” attitude. Even the implementation is deficient in that aspect, since it doesn’t count the attention a comment has attracted: a +100/-95 score gives +5, while a +6/-1 score gives exactly the same result. Moreover, since we do not log in, anyone can use techniques for multiple up/downvotes of the comments they like/dislike.
I really don’t like this feature!
b) This may sound nice in principle but not in practice. I won’t go anywhere near Javascript issues, since we all probably surrender greater parts of security/privacy when browsing. Practically, however, since the page is loaded with truncated comments, if I want to cache the entire article to read on the subway, I’m basically screwed, since I need connectivity to download the rest of the truncated comments.
I still like the fact that we don’t have to log in to post comments (up vote here!) and if I had a request would be to simply add WYSIWYG support. Even if I can code html, it’s a real PITA to do, even for simple or tags, not to mention or other.
Also, the “share” feature seems nice.
Great, I tried to mention bold/italic/hyperlink html tags and my comment got mangled by the parser! Fortunately toward the end of my comment!
Q…what happened to the kaptcha? Kinds made me feel safe in this very strange world……!Cos “reply” always seem to know when I wish to reply now……..!
My experience with the captcha issue in this and other site is that, when the captcha issue enters in a loop and does not accept even infinite intends of writing the damned captcha well, you end in stopping posting anything anymore to the risk of losing your nerves apart from your time and probaby also your long and elaborated post, as happened to me with the page of certain professor on
Political Sciences.
So, please, no captcha.
Do not agree with the collapsed comments
Do not agree with the dense text of the collapsed comments
Having to click to expand the comments is just too much hard work.
Having to work, to click more to see more makes it very easy not to click, not to see, to flash through.
And particularly the unparagraphed dense text pre more.
Hard to read.
More work.
Why save space on an infinite page?
mods
hi guys good morning thanks for being on duty so early this am
I notice I cannot expand the comment box….then when I copy paste eg anna-news report, it does not show up or expand until I hit enter…..confusing, is then easy to multiple copy paste same thing …..tricky when doing a list of copy paste compilations….bit tricky seeing the comment greyed out too( can imagine travelling in a dark train home from work tired at end of day and tricky to see your draft.) until is submitted for moderation when then text goes black………………………
hi jj
I have increased the height of the input box on both a new comment and reply. Let me know what you think.
Herb
Cheers pal!Very quick service this evening….appreciated.
@ Saker-Admin October 30, 2016 8:18 am
——————————–
The RSS feed is a good solution to view comments in chronological order. It would be absolutely great if the current setting showing the most recent 30 comments could be increased to show at least a couple of days worth of comments (or however much is possible). The problem is that for readers who can only check the blog once a day or every other day or so, it becomes very very difficult to find all the new comments that have been posted in the interval.
One of the most attractive features of this site is the great amount of very useful information posted in the comments, thanks in no small part to the excellent job by the moderators who can keep out trolls and spammers while allowing for a wide variety of diverse and even conflicting opinions as long as they are expressed with civility.
Thank you moderators.
Direct link to RSS comments feed:
/comments/feed/
Dear mods….I had thought I had posted that join the discussion box cannot be expanded….was useful to see for example everything that I sometimes copy paste when making a compilation ….can only see my copy paste if I then hit enter or another key(forget which like up down?,,)………then I was used to see all content before pressing post….now goes straight to your comment will be moderated…..otherwise it is easy to multiple copy paste sake article.
Also leave a reply box is greyed text…not sure if say for example on a time train journey home it is easy to check what you are about to post…..nice there is a tonal change to text to indicate is been changed status to be moderated.but would appreciate a more visible text ie colour???? when composing a post………?.?.
Thank you for your attention..
not sure about the color … can you take a screen shot and indicate which text you are referencing … color can be changed … just need to be sure i understand which text you what changed .. mod-hs
ta-will get back later today…….it is this box when you start typing a reply-comment is grey( I work in tonal process photography -printing so it looks about 65% -70% black on Stouffer scale maybe step 14-15. the little box that says post comment is of course 100% black………….., then when you post comment, text reappears at a stronger black .with message awaiting confirmation.Working on a mac but is same on tablet.
changed to full black … see if it works … also data entry area expanded
Really appreciated thank you V V much dear mods.Much clearer for us older bods probably with declining eyesight in rooms lit by low energy light bulbs, or travelling on some dingy train or waiting at a railway station in the dark of winter , or a snow storm…….beginning to feel wintery here now in UK.
ooops… something wrong…
why flankerbandit’s comment was removed?
i read the comment and after reload no more….
what’s happening here?
Not sure – you need to give me times, the thread etc so I can go take a look. As it is I have nothing to guide me in looking. mod-on-duty
flankerbandit argued (in his long comment), like me (posted a bit before from this comment), that the score was very favorable to >>NO<< "read more" feature.
and Herb had answered flankerbandit's comment… and after reload… where's flankerbandit's comment and Herb's response? puft… it's gone!
I don’t know what the comment was about but my impression is majority doesn’t like “read more“ feature specially considering the number of up votes for comments against “read more”. Personally I would like it to be canceled.
comment was sent onto the saker …. mod-hs
Hi Herb,
I am finding a new problem with the new features and it is that the “reply” has less sensibility than before taking me picking several times begore getting the window to be able to make the reply.
Maybe it is a matter of colour ( do not make laugh of me, guys, I am kinda computer illiterate; well, if you want laugh, why lose an opportnity of having fun ) since before it appeared in orange ( the same as the links ) and now in bold black?
I am talking on smartphone experience, since I have not been able to check the changes in a computer ( mine still under reparation ; do not know if my brother is assorting it completelly or what! ).
Do you have a problem or is this just informational??
Yes, I am noticiing that it takes more than one picking when you try to replay.
Anyway, it does not seem to be because of the colour, as I was, from my ignorance, venturing, since the second page buttom is also in black now and seems to work well.
Regarding the time stamp, since it is mainly employed to reference comments, it would be much better if the word “Today” (currently appearing instead of the date on recent comments) were to be changed to the actual date as in all the other comments. In any case, “today” is in reference to UTC time and the reader may be behind or ahead of “today” so it is not very useful imo.
Thanks
(ok, rewriting)
hi Mods, Web-Herb et al,
i agree with this comment, BUT…
why u don’t use logical time stamp, yyyy-mm-dd HH:mm (24h) format?
e.g.:
2016-12-05 03:45 or
2016-02-27 21:05
or yyyy-mm-dd HH:mm:ss e.g.: 2016-05-07 19:05:08
simple, compact and without dubious interpretation.
no “today”, am, pm and another non necessary terms.
isn’t better?
all the best!
“read-More” so-called “feature” is method enabling “readers” to read not more, but less. This is absolutely obvious. It is the stated intent of this “feature”.
If a person takes to trouble to write, it is an insult to say that it is too much trouble to read what they have written.
I, for one, do not intend to avoid reading anything, and further, it is idiotic to actually take practical steps to assist “readers” to read less. It insult readers, it insult writers. Worse, each real reader is deliberately discommoded by the new “feature”.
The “feature” subverts the entire thesis of SAKER site. Agents of the Dark Forces have even been invited to vote! Is Saker nuts?
But this is only my “opinion”? It is, alas, FACT.
If I am wrong in this analysis, then let us test it…post only the title of a proposed article, placing “read more” just below the title…
I come to the site to read, not for anything else… But perhaps Saker’s been led to, or suborned to, undermine his own work…
Show us it ain’t so.
Pity!