by Alexander Mercouris
I have deliberately helped back on the story about the satellite photos that supposedly show a Ukrainian fighter shooting down MH17 to see what the response would be, whether any more evidence would come to light and what the Russian government and military would say about them .
In the event the Russian government and military have ignored them as I notice to a great extent have Russian media organisations like Sputnik,TASS and RT.
The photos have been widely ridiculed as fakes and I am afraid I tend to agree. My reason for thinking that these photos are almost certainly fakes is not because of the specific criticisms that have been made of the photos (persuasive though some of these criticisms are) but that the photos are quite simply too good to be true. Until and unless we know the actual provenance of these photos (ie. whose satellite supposedly took them – we only know it was not the Russians’) we should pay them no attention.
I would make two more points about these photos:
1. It seems that these photos were part of the evidence used by a body known as the Russian Institute of Engineers that published a report on MH17. I don’t know much about this body but I was frankly unimpressed by the report. If the report did draw on these photos, then I am afraid that is another reason to treat that report with skepticism.
2. From literally the day MH17 was shot down it has been clear to me that an organised attempt is being made by someone to spread the story that MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter. There was the story of the mysterious Spanish air traffic controller for instance that circulated within hours of the tragedy and which effectively got the theory going. Note that we have heard little or nothing from this person since then, which makes his evidence look even more like someone’s fabrication.
It is possible that those behind this operation are the Russians, possibly because they know that that is what happened and they want to draw people’s attention to the fact. However if that were the case then I would have expected them to say as much publicly and to make their evidence public since they have no conceivable reason to keep it secret.
I have to say (and I have been worrying about this for some time) that It seems to me frankly more likely that whoever is behind the campaign to circulate this theory is doing so deliberately in order to create a false trail in the full knowledge that the theory is false and that it will eventually be proved to be false, leaving those who believed it feeling foolish and appearing discredited.
Let me assure people that I know both from history and experience that these sort of provocation tactics really do happen in the world of intelligence and there most definitely are people working in intelligence agencies around the world who really are capable of concocting and carrying out operations of this sort. The fact that these photos appear to originate with a western source strengthen these concerns. .
Let me remind people of my previous comment: we should not let ourselves be hustled into a false binary where fighter=Ukrainians and BUK=NAF. As of today we know for a fact the Ukrainians had both and we do not know for a fact that the NAF had either. That is as far as the facts so far go.
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Commentary by the Saker: while I do not have the expertise to state so categorically, I continue to believe that this is a fake. What I am sure of is that it shows a Su-27 and not a Su-25 (or even a MiG-29). The difference between a Su-27 and Su-25 is immense, and if we accept the notion that a Su-278 might have attacked MH-17 then we need to completely revise our model of the flight envelopes of the two aircraft and of the engagement. I am not saying categorically that this is impossible, but only that I am extremely dubious.
The Saker
The way propaganda works is that it sits in public for a long time so that it works its magic whether or not it’s true. The preposterous story of the Russians secretly moving a BUK into Donbas, shooting down an airliner, and then secretly moving it out, is how propaganda works. That the West ignored the Russian radar released only a few days after the incident is how propaganda works.
This story was immediately floated and then knocked down. If the story was created in the West to be an immediately demonstrable bit of false propaganda on Russia’s part, then it merely reassures the West’s audience to ignore ALL theories alternative to theirs.
My guess is that this story originated in the West in order to be immediatgely disproven.
I still suspect that the attack on MH17 was a false flag op, either by Ukraine or more likely by the US, in order to put more blame on the Russians.
MRTIN: I don’t think anybody’s trying to scapegoat Carlos, the air traffic controller. Some people just think he doesn’t exist, that he’s a hoax. I personally don’t doubt his info. It looks like when the military air controllers came into the tower they took over, the regular personnel were moved aside and all the day’s radar and audio records were confiscated. I can well imagine that the regular personnel were not supervised since the newcomers were agitated about the downing, didn’t know who ordered it, etc. Carlos only tweeted a few lines at a time.
For those who are interested:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh17-downed-by-ukrainian-military-aircraft-kiev-regime-false-flag/5414173
Willie has it right–blatant desperation hysteria & facile hokey hoaxes reeks of their trying to hide something beyond huge to be revealed likely within days.
BTW, notice how despite the sickening, non-stop, months running unprecedented publicity of the ebola hoax, it has now magically disappeared?
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2014/11/16/peter-kassig-the-hasty-distraction-of-the-latest-isis-beheading-video/
This one doesn’t even bother with a recorded statement from the victim nor does it purport to show the “terrorist’ hacking away at his neck with no blood being produced. There is no fake body on the ground “money shot” either. Instead, there is simply the fake head prop lying at the feet of the MI6 agent pretending to be the “ISIS” terrorist.
As usual, the New York Times finds a way to lie even about this ridiculous hastily hammered together distraction video.
Now that Porky has cut loose DPR, Heavy Shelling of Donetsk reported:
(Reuters) – Fresh volleys of artillery fire were heard across many parts of the separatist stronghold of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine on Sunday, a Ukrainian government statement said, after Kiev warned again of rebel preparations for a fresh offensive.
[.]In separatist Luhansk region, three members of Ukraine’s special police force were killed as a result of a rebel attempt to break into Ukrainian-controlled territory, the Interior Ministry said in an online statement. The press service for the military operation said another soldier had been killed elsewhere in the region.[.]
MH17 was mentioned in this article in one of Canada’s major right-wing newspapers:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/16/vladimir-putins-plan-he-took-crimea-hes-taunting-nato-what-will-russias-president-do-next/
Aurel Braun – a rabid hawk Political Science Professor in Canada who spews hatred of Putin and Russia at every opportunity it seems.
He’s mentioned in Counterpunch back in 2010 here:
Ultra-Zionism Runs Amok in Harper’s Canada
http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/article0125639.html
It’s a very high altitude D-R-O-N-E photo.
a drone the ukes never expected russia has.
see NOV 15 update, as stories scroll down page with new news.
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/
Reason 1. Putin has the Navy off the coast of Australia. Why would he do this for the G20? How about to ensure he has the ability to leave Australia safely after popping an image like that? It should come as no surprise that official Russian press released this while it was almost completely silenced in the Western press.
Reason 2. Putin is leaving the G20 early and will not attend the official dinner on Sunday night. The reason cited? “Western leaders keep telling him to get out of Ukraine”. WEAK. Putin is NOT THAT THIN SKINNED. How about a threat to his life? How about some other factor, such as this photo?
I think the Russians really confused the issue…when they speculated that an Su-25 Jet Fighter which the Western mainstream media gladly grabbed hold of since then.
Why would you send the modified Su-25 M1 to do a man’s job, when it’s marginal at best in terms of it’s speed and ceiling, knowing the Airliner will be traveling along that flight path at 33,000 ft (10,000 m).
I think it’s more than likely an Mig-29 that was sent up to intercept the Airliner. It has twice the speed of Su-25 M1 and can easily operate at the 30,000 or 40,000 height levels.
What some are ignoring are the March 2014 hacked emails of between Army Attache and Ukraine Military General calling for a false flag to blame on Russia so the U.S. can get involved with the military against Russia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWfrfxerKp0
There’s also the hacked emails of Ihor Kolomoisky and his goons
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/08/14/hackers-learned-who-shot-down-mh17-in-ukraine/
Abbott latest.
http://nsnbc.me/2014/11/15/abbotts-anti-putin-anti-china-policy-puts-australia-crash-course/
Abbott wanted to “shirt-front” Putin, among others, over the fate of Malaysia Airlines (MAS) Flight MH17 on July 17, 2014 in Ukraine, which according to Abbott was shot down by Russian-backed “pro-Russian separatists”.
For all those who have time and interest on studying, and are new to the topic:
“Marxism-Leninism Study Guide”:
http://marxistleninist.wordpress.com/study-guide/
At the same page, below, link to a book also essential to know Russia and the World: “History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (Bolsheviks). Short Course” by Joseph V. Stalin.( Free pdf courtesy of Marxists Internet Archive ):
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1939/x01/index.htm
1914/1942 2.0:
Ukraine crisis: Petro Poroshenko says country is ‘ready for total war’ with Russia
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-17/ukraine-ready-for-total-war-with–russia-poroshenko-says/5895570
Putin to merkel: No metter what you do, you will be fucked anyway https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xfnjYYy2lM
Bei einem Ukraine-Krieg droht Auflösung Russlands (translation: In case of a Russian-Ukrainian war, Russia risks GETTING DISSOLVED!)
http://www.welt.de/kultur/article134377318/Bei-einem-Ukraine-Krieg-droht-Aufloesung-Russlands.html
The ‘satellite photo’ could very easily be debunked, indeed has been in double quick time. It is not a Russian satellite pic; the ‘guy’ who supposedly forwarded it to Russia could very easily be either identified by the Yanks, or shown not to exist.
Why any Russian media fell for this I cannot comprehend.
The Russian story of a fighter (or two) tracking and approaching the MH17 has been around for a long time, and the Russians have provided photo evidence of this.
Seems like a cheap trick by the ever-slimy West to present some easily dismissible ‘evidence’, and so discredit the very real evidence Russia has produced. Notice, no one has been able to dismiss the Russian’s evidence.
Have they (the ‘Slime’) got agents within Russian media? Wouldn’t surprise me; ‘people’ sell their souls for a few bucks, these days.
Yes, makes one wonder just what percent of other videos are fake.
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/11/wests-propaganda-war-on-syria-exposed.html
Fox, the London Telegraph, and the Daily Mail all published articles promoting a video claiming to show a Syrian boy rescuing a young girl amid heavy gunfire during Syria’s ongoing conflict.
Image: One must wonder just what else has been peddled before the public by the Western media as authentic or “believed to be” authentic, when in reality being a complete, 100% fraudulent production.
Apparently there is some way to download a video and find data on it, like when it was made, at least in some cases. I don’t know how to do this.
But still photos nowadays I ALWAYS check, and it is surprising how often they are fake. Sometimes deliberate, sometimes just ignorance,sometimes just taking the word of an earlier source. Even the otherwise excellent Russian Insider put a photo of “novorossiyan soldiers” which was a 2008image o Russians in Georgia. Some trainee found a file photo and didn’t know better but now they are triple checking.
Get a Firefox addon
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/who-stole-my-pictures/
two clicks to find earlier versions of any image. The Bing and Yandex options usually don’t do much but the latter is good for obscure Russian-only sources that Google may have missed.
I watch every “Russian convoy” video, so next time the same one is published I can put a comment about how old it really is. Some have been put up as fresh for 3 weeks now. Others are the same 3 trucks looped to look like a big convoy.
The most recent genuinely Donetsk area convoys have civilian POLICE ESCORT, nice modern looking white cars with red/blue roof flashers and ДПС (DPS Donetsk Police Service) on the bonnet. Looks like some of the original police have stayed. They are only being paid in food for now.
As for the aircraft logo being in the wrong, the following URL shows a vid of an MH 777 with the logo well forward of the wing. Do MH move logos around?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7ZMNelZVRXA
ah a conspiracy! however unless random eyewitnesses were in on this, ther was a 2nd plane
http://www.globalresearch.ca/deleted-bbc-report-ukrainian-fighter-jet-shot-down-mhi7-donetsk-eyewitnesses/5393631
Listen to everything, assume/judge Nothing! Truth will eventually bubble through the toilet pipe.
As for the planting of ‘zionist’ labels by a commentor earlier ~ zionism, and the NWO are creations of Islamists, and occultists, who know that if they seperate the Christians from the Atheists, we’ll be easier to conqour.
And did you know in Freemasonry, in lower initiation they consider Lucifer as a god that is equal to the Christian God. And that progressing through initiation to become a Shriner thence they begin to worship Allah.
Search the above phrases, and hang on to your hats.
God Bless.
Listen to everything, assume/judge Nothing! Truth will eventually bubble through the toilet pipe.
As for the planting of ‘zionist’ labels by a commentor earlier ~ zionism, and the NWO are creations of Islamists, and occultists, who know that if they seperate the Christians from the Atheists, we’ll be easier to conqour.
And did you know in Freemasonry, in lower initiation they consider Lucifer as a god that is equal to the Christian God. And that progressing through initiation to become a Shriner thence they begin to worship Allah.
Search the above phrases, and hang on to your hats.
God Bless.
Anonymous said…
Listen to everything, assume/judge Nothing! Truth will eventually bubble through the toilet pipe.
As for the planting of ‘zionist’ labels by a commentor earlier ~ zionism, and the NWO are creations of Islamists, and occultists, who know that if they seperate the Christians from the Atheists, we’ll be easier to conqour.
And did you know in Freemasonry, in lower initiation they consider Lucifer as a god that is equal to the Christian God. And that progressing through initiation to become a Shriner thence they begin to worship Allah.
Search the above phrases, and hang on to your hats.
God Bless.
@elsi: Thank your for clarification regarding Carlos. Special tnx also for the Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism archive url.
@Penelope said…
“””””MRTIN: I don’t think anybody’s trying to scapegoat Carlos, the air traffic controller. Some people just think he doesn’t exist, that he’s a hoax. I personally don’t doubt his info. It looks like when the military air controllers came into the tower they took over, the regular personnel were moved aside and all the day’s radar and audio records were confiscated. I can well imagine that the regular personnel were not supervised since the newcomers were agitated about the downing, didn’t know who ordered it, etc. Carlos only tweeted a few lines at a time.
For those who are interested:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh17-downed-by-ukrainian-military-aircraft-kiev-regime-false-flag/5414173 “””””
I don’t know where I disagreed with you, your narrative is identical to what I wrote. Or at least: What I thought I was writing. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. Cannot read everything right now, NO TIME …
@ Martin Bochnig,
You welcome!
Click on the links and will take you to almost infinite links (Wonders of the network).
Clicking below the end of the Stalin´s book, in J.V. Stalin Archive, then Biographies, then in Soviet History Archive, will take you to a link where you will find, among other very interesting things, also music, like the one you like, with the letter in Russian and sometimes in English and even French, and mP3 audio.
I really wish I had time to read it all to form my own personal opinion about the former USSR. If not now, perhaps I may have time someday, when I retire, if Santa Barbara keeps my sight.
Do not despair, we will be free one day, learn from the mistakes of the ancients who preceded us and the next time will be better.
Hope you enjoy, Martin.
A hug!
Actually, as far as I remember, the Spanish air traffic controller named Carlos, whose Twitter account had been alive for a long time before, really existed.
His account got deleted probably within 8 hours or so (again, if I remember it correctly) after the airplane crash. I inferred the time from Google’s cache of the page.
From my recollections…
RT posted an interview with him dated or posted on 8 May 2014 or so, if I remember it correctly.
He stated in the interview that he had been threatened by some unnamed (Maidan) “activists” and that he genuinely feared for his life and the life and safety of his family.
After the airplane crash, he (mysteriously?) disappears…
He may have been sort of an (anti-Maidan) activist, too, but in all likelihood he is real and genuine.
I cannot say anything as to the credibility of what he wrote during the crucial moments. I cannot rule out the possibility that might have been a hoax…
But the timing and history of his tweets hours before the airplane crash looked quite credible.
As far as I remember, he was writing about 2 military airplanes behind the civilian airplane.
And he also exclaimed that the blame was going to be laid on the “pro-Russians”.
Also note that [reportedly] there had been a rather hastily convened meeting of some “Ukrainian security council” presided by Waltzman himself, which took place a mere 1/4 hour before the downing of the airplane.
I am sorry about the noise and duplication, but I got a bit ruffled by the “theory” that Carlos was a complete hoax..