Kindly forward the video. It is still live. It is not a wonderful video but fully understandable, and a better production will be available I would expect during the next few hours.
“The content of the US response on security guarantees allows you to count on a serious conversation, but on secondary topics. There is no answer to the most important question – about the non-expansion of NATO to the east.”
“Our President will now decide on the next steps.”
Update: Based on a question from a reporter, this is a good summary of Russia’s thinking and a summary of the video:
Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s answer to a media question, Moscow, January 27, 2022
106-27-01-2022
Question: You have received the Americans’ response to Russia’s security guarantee proposals. What does it say? What is their reaction? Antony Blinken has said that they are against releasing the document publicly. What has Russia decided on this score?
Sergey Lavrov: I believe that the general public will know the essence of this document soon. As our American colleagues have said, although they would like to keep this document confidential so as to provide space for confidential talks, they have coordinated it with their allies and with Ukraine. Are they sure that it will not be leaked very soon?
As for the essence of the document, the responses offer grounds for serious talks only on matters of secondary importance. There is no positive response to the main issue, which is our clear stand on the continued NATO enlargement towards the east and the deployment of strike weapons that can pose a threat to the territory of the Russian Federation, which we consider unacceptable. This stand did not appear out of the blue. As you may know, the issue of NATO’s non-enlargement or enlargement, however you put it, has a long history. In the early 1990s, or more precisely in 1990, when Germany was reunified and the issue of European security was raised, they solemnly promised that NATO would not expand even an inch eastward beyond the Oder River. These facts are well known and have been included in many memoirs by British, US and German officials. But now that this issue has become a matter of fierce debates, we have been told that the promises were only verbal. When we mentioned the memoirs, our Western partners responded that they were not serious and that their words were misinterpreted. They chose a rather immature way to explain the reckless expansion of the alliance.
But now that we have cited the promises made not in word but in the form of documents signed by the leaders of all OSCE states, including the US President (the 1999 Istanbul Declaration and the 2010 Astana Declaration), our Western partners have to find a way out of a very serious situation. The point is that both declarations set out the participating states’ commitment to the principle of indivisible security and their pledge to honour it without fail. This principle was formulated very clearly. It includes two interconnected approaches. The first is the freedom of states to choose military alliances. The second is the obligation not to strengthen their security at the expense of the security of other states. In other words, the freedom to choose security arrangements is conditioned by the pledge to respect the security interests of any other OSCE state, including the Russian Federation.
It is indicative that now when we propose coordinating legally binding security guarantees in the Euro-Atlantic region, our Western colleagues respond by urging us to respect the coordinated principles of security guarantees in that region. After saying this, they add that this means that NATO has a right to expand, and nobody can prohibit it from considering any country’s request for joining the alliance. The principle according to which no state may strengthen their security at the expense of the security of other states is being deliberately ignored. Our Western partners make no mention of the Istanbul or the Astana declarations during the ongoing discussions on European security. They are keeping away from this matter. We cannot accept this. They explained their failure to honour the non-enlargement promises in the 1990s by the absence of written obligations, but such promises were given in writing later. They have been reaffirmed within the OSCE framework several times, including at the top level. We will now focus on getting clarity regarding this hypocritical position of our Western partners.
During my talks with Antony Blinken in Geneva, I asked him to explain why they regard the obligations made within the OSCE as a menu from which they are free to choose the dishes that taste good to them, and why they are disregarding or talking round their pledge to honour the interests of other countries. Mr Blinken did not reply to my question. He only shrugged his shoulders, and that’s it. I told him, just as I have told our other colleagues, that we would shortly send them an official request for an explanation why they choose only one of their commitments and disregard the other commitments on which its implementation depends. It will be an official request sent to all countries whose leaders signed the Istanbul and Astana declarations. I hope that it will not take them long to explain the Western position.
Other than that, we are analysing the Americans’ response. As Antony Blinken has said, they have coordinated it with Ukraine and with the other Western countries, with US allies. We have also received NATO’s response from Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. We are analysing these two documents as a package, because they have been provided in response to the draft treaty and draft agreement we proposed in December 2021. After an inter-agency coordination of our conclusions, we will submit them to President Vladimir Putin, who will make a decision on our further actions.
This was as expected.
I just wonder if the US knows what they are doing or they are simply reacting as per habit.
Judging from the Western media, politicians and thinktankland they have no clue (or pretend not to know) what Russia has said clearly and unequivocally and its possible consequences.
The pain dial will be wound up relentlessly until the West sees sense.
The countdown to the end of Empire has started.
It seems that they have been reading so much about it from other sources (why it is unacceptable or a non-starter) that very few have actually looked at the original proposals.
Last night on German ARD ‘state affiliated media’ one female journalist appeared to be under the impression that it was a kind of tennis match and stated that after this reply “the ball is now in the Russian court”. The general incompetence and ignorance is astonishing, as she also said that both the original Russian proposal and the US reply “were secretive”. A strange admission that she had not read the Russian proposals.
>The pain dial will be wound up relentlessly until the West sees sense.
I doubt Russia can do much. I hope I am wrong.
Yes they will do…they already showed to the world on 01/15/22….they will do it even more – very ” kinetic” way so even western “NORMIES” can see it I assume VVP get them real “ultimatum” in the Syria….VVP care not only for Christians there…
Russia is capable of ending human life on Earth. Of course, it will do everything possible to avoid such a result, but surely it is not realistic to maintain that “Russia cannot do much”.
So far Russia has been fighting, so to speak, according to the “Queensberry Rules” of boxing – not hitting below the belt, etc. – while the West has used all the techniques of unarmed combat.
So the West has come to believe that Russia is limited to polite, civilised boxing. That is wrong. If they try hard enough for long enough they may find that they get kicked very hard in the groin, and then in the head.
The problem is that Russia cannot maintain this over a long period. They cannot over extend themselves for a long period of time militarily. They can have high impact over a short space of time, to aggressively get what they want but after that, what? I hope VVP has some master plan because right now the whole thing looks like a big fat nothing burger. Ok, there is a good result in that NATO is now practically to all purposes finished, 2 countries have already stated they will not fight for NATO (Bulgaria and Croatia) there will be more I am sure (Hungary, Italy, Spain Greece?) and it is clear that neither Germany nor France want any part of an American war in Europe. This is good, it could bring Russia and Europe closer together to get better understandings for future but the US? They will not stop ‘poking the bear’ – it is what they do. Making pain on the borders, subtrifuge, agent provocateurism etc. Even now they are negotiaing with the Taliban, relaxing sanctions, seeking influence were China and Russia have been reticent, the pieces on the chessboard move swiftly, the CIA and MI6 will be back in Afghanistan soon, no doubt. This creates trouble on the borders and trouble for Chinas OBOR.
Russias intentions were and are noble but to think the US would respond in a mature manner was I think a mistake. Neocons are not resonable nor mature. Having said all that, diplomacy is like an iceberg, only 1/10th we get to see, the other 9/10ths are in the backround in the icy depths. I await the unfolding of future plans and posture, especially with China. More will be revealed soon I am sure.
“The problem is that Russia cannot maintain this over a long period. They cannot over extend themselves for a long period of time militarily.”
@Boris
Can you elaborate this statement a little? For how long can Russia maintain “this” in comparison to US?
Hogwash.
Russia has all the fuel oil they need to keep their forces on the move. The forces are paid whether they stay in the barracks/port or whether they are deployed. The forces are right next door to Russia, so there is almost no effort in keeping the forces on combat ready. It is wishful AngloZionist thinking that the projection costs to Russia are as high as theirs are…
What perhaps *cannot* be sustained is the AngloZionist hysteria and projecting their forces into a non-Nato country. Russia always has the option of smashing all the Canadian/UK/Polish *advisors* stuck in Ukraine. Good luck to NATO trying to justify their troublemaking role in a non-NATO country, and risking EU and 5eyes lives in a non-NATO country.
If NATO doesn’t back down, I seriously doubt the Russians will provide NATO assets stranded in a Cauldron safe passage back home.
Since the Russians are moving inside their own country, they are hardly “overextended” :-)
Russia/China/Iran can keep putting more and more troops and equipment on the border until it becomes apparent that the west can not respond in kind. Maybe then the West will feel what the Russians have been dealing with for the last 32 years. I think Putin has decided to to start a pissing match the west can not win. I hope that’s all it is.
Dear Saker,
I was reading up on Finland & NATO and found this article on the origins of the Winter War. I find it quite relevant to the current situation. Back then, Nazi Germany was the main opponent. The Soviet Union sought security guarantees from the Finnish but they refused despite the Russian offering various proposals. In the end the Russians felt they could not afford Germany taking a foothold and attacked. I am not suggesting to attack Ukraine. But I find the diplomatic efforts with the Finnish with regards to mutual security have parallels with the present.
Hopefully you would find the article interesting. Hope the link works or you can google its title.
http://digitalcommons.iwu.edu › …PDF
The Diplomatic Preclude to the Winter War – Digital Commons …
https://digitalcommons.iwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1028&context=history_honproj
The US is heavily invested in its post-Soviet anti-Russia policy; it is a centerpiece of its commitment to self destruct. Eastern Europe has been the only place on the face of the Earth in the thirty where Washington made gains politically. Russia is “snow” to them (“snow” here means cocaine). They want to go on snorting their great “victory” over the USSR because they are losing ground everywhere else. At the same time, the woke dopeys are turning their own country into a third-world hell hole.
Cocaine is far more harmful than smoking or alcohol; more harmful than Covid. It destroys the nasal septum quickly, but the internal damage it does cannot be seen at first.
Thus the analogy is a very suitable one.
They know what they are doing. I believe their policy objective is to sink NS2, move Ukraine into NATO and regain Crimea and Donbass, cut Russia off from Western European economy, move missiles to Russian borders. And lastly not provide any guarantees to Russian security proposal.
To me, it appears their objectives are being realized. It is the Russian side that isn’t able to gain traction yet.
In what way are they being realized? They won’t move Ukraine into NATO, let alone gain Crimea, short of war. Western Europe is irrelevant geopolitically and, more and more, economically. Russia with China’s backing can and will prevail.
“Russia with China’s backing can and will prevail.”
I think that statement is key, and the reason that Russia has more backbone these days. I expect some surprises in the coming weeks.
If they sink NS2, no one in Russia will care in the least. But Europeans will get cold, and European industry will suffer badly.
If Ukraine joins NATO, it is not clear how Russia could prevent the formalities. But NATO is ostensibly a defensive military alliance, and Ukraine will not be a very active member if any military assets it has are destroyed the moment they enter the country. Besides which, until Ukraine ceases to wage war on some of its own citizens it will be barred from NATO.
Regaining Crimea and Donbass is actually impossible. It could only be done by force, and any such attempts would be met with far superior force.
Cutting Russia off from the Western European economy has already been tried, with counterproductive effects. It would mainly harm Western Europe..
Moving missiles to the Russian borders is what Moscow’s proposal is intended to rule out. If it is done nevertheless, those missiles will presumably be destroyed.
When you say that “It is the Russian side that isn’t able to gain traction yet,” you overlook that the West is in the position of a man walking boldly into a minefield who calls back to his friends, “Those mines don’t seem to have much effect yet”.
Then… “click!”
Dear None
Much as it breaks my heart, I have to agree with you. Yes – their objectives (as you have stated them) are being realised.
Further, by persuading every Tom-Dick-and Harry that a Russian invasion is imminent, they have trapped Russia into unrealisable expectations and loss of face if she stands down without achieving her own objectives – which they ignore as if they don’t exist.
So the situation seems hopeless, and surrounding Russia with ever more armaments and sanctions will continue apace – UNLESS China decides to take a stand (they too are subject to encirclement) – unlikely during the Olympics, and perhaps just wishful thinking on my part.
Getting rid of US encirclement will have to be done eventually – but will China allow Russia to be weakened for her own benefit before insisting on it?
jiri
The countdown to the end of the empire has started some time ago. However, empires do not like to collapse peacefully, refusing to accept their fate. They play dirty, more dirty than before.
These talks between the US and Russia are almost a complete waste of time. The US is talking to create an illusion of seeking “peace” and in the process refusing to make guarantees of any importance. The aim is to throw all the blame on Russia. The neocons in the US refuse to accept the fact that Russia did not implode, so that NATO could march in and provide Western corporations complete freedom in plundering the country.
Washington DC, with the Rothschild’s controlled City of London, has not abandoned it’s policy of breaking up Russia. They are provoking a war in the Donbass, hoping Russia would intervene and in the process having it isolated, thinking that these measures would be enough to cause financial and economic chaos for the country. Well, Russia would in that case experience some damage, but not as much as the EU. As I have written before, when sanctions were first introduced in 2014, the EU lost, by the second half of 2016, 100 billion euros in trade. It risks losing even more, especially Russian energy, which Russia can divert to China and others. Europe knows it, which is the reason why there is not full unity inside NATO.
What is dangerous here is the state of the US economy and it’s finances. Not even American university professors are sure what the combined US foreign and domestic debt is, and this situation cannot be maintained permanently. As analysts have stated, you cannot kick the can down the road permanently, ie. keep on having these debts without serious consequences. Something drastic needs to be done,
like starting a war and isolating Russia, especially from Europe and China, hoping it would implode. The US would then fully control Europe, while China would depend on US energy exports, including the ones plundered in Russia after the country implodes (reminds me of US plundering of Syrian oil).
This strategy is paranoid wishful thinking. The dangers which Russia faced during the 1990’s are now history, while the Russian-Chinese partnership is reality. As for Europe, analysts have stated that it’s only a matter of time before a rift occurs between European and American elites, with the European ones looking towards Russia and China. Few countries in Europe want to fight and perish for American interests.
For the occasion Lavrov chose a very dark tie to match his black suit.
Well observed. He always uses blue ones — but not today
Lavrov uses mood ties? Is that a diplomatic thing? Or some kind of psychological warfare.
Indeed. Eva Joly used to war red slitsomt and use here black in a way that made you feel she look straight through you. A bit down on the nose, and looking at you just above them.
Signalling, ” glows off”, she would take them off using one arm, while stating something that is sort of gloves off.
Among our amusing crowd on our planet I am quite sure there are individuals that specializes in the art of “advanced subliminal encrypted haute couture message transfer protocols”, to state in the lesser complex way possible.
Or you could call it “dress codes”–semiotic pun intended.
Dress code is way different.
That’s more like in some restaurants, you might need to wear a tie. No tie, no entrance.
Or to wear black in funerals.
This is a new form of hybrid warfare. Call all Western “journalist” and the UN: Russia is weaponizing neck ties.
In the Estern world is it dress for the funeral- somber feeling..I do believe this is beginning of end of neocons/neolibs warmongering Empire..35 yrs ago we seen end of the communism initiated by Reagan it is now Russian turn to bring real changes to the WORLD…my guts feeling is VVP/SHOIGU will do it..
Add Mr.Lavrov…Russians should be very happy with those three leaders in the matter of the facts …World – should be happy….
The World as it Truly is
It’s a powerful psychological warning to Washington DC that Russia means business.
Saker,
I hope all is well with all contributors – it has been a rocky week – now the responses have come through I have the following questions
1) Do you think the Russian Government actually thought the treaty would be accepted – if so why?
2) Lavrov says there will now be internal discussions- Do you think this is because they have no plan B of what to do next
Thank you
Hi
Russian government is pulled apart by opposing forces – the Atlanticists and the Eurasian camp. This has created a schizophrenia of sorts with decision making pulled apart from all sides.
So in a sense Russia is still led to believe the treaty will be accepted. In fact there is still hope Russia would be accepted in the western camp and things would go back to as they used to be once. There is still a deeply ingrained inferiority complex and memories of a short lived honeymoon.
More internal discussions because there is no plan B, and this again as a result of these opposing forces who have paralysed Russian policy and decision making capacity.
Russia cant rise unless some principles besides commercial interests are taken into account and implemented.
Thanks
I agree. There is a permanent hope among Russian “intelligentia” that they would be somehow be accepted by the West. But that hope is in vain.
https://orientalreview.org/2022/01/22/will-a-russia-india-china-heads-of-state-summit-be-held-this-year/
”Precisely for that grand strategic reason, however, the US actively attempted to divide and rule China and India by perniciously encouraging the latter to contribute to its anti-Chinese “containment” campaign. This was done in a desperate but ultimately doomed bid to delay America’s fading unipolar hegemony as long as possible. The administration of former US President Donald Trump made this among its top foreign policy priorities, but everything started falling apart over the past 18 months during the last half-year of his rule and the first full one of his successor Joe Biden.
American support to its new military-strategic ally during the summer 2020 Galwan River Valley clashes between China and India didn’t fulfill the expectations of New Delhi’s most hawkish anti-Chinese foreign policy faction. Almost immediately afterwards, the US then reaffirmed its threats to sanction India under the “Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act” (CAATSA) for remaining loyal to its deal to purchase Russia’s S-400 air defense systems. These two moves resulted in Indian foreign policy moderates gaining influence over their hawkish peers.
America then violated India’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in early April during a so-called “freedom of navigation operation” (FONOP). India interpreted this as an ominous move meant to signal that their country wasn’t the US’ equal military-strategic ally like their establishment thought at the time due to the hawks’ influence over them, but was being humiliated as a vassal state. America’s chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan and its surprise assembling of the Australia-UK-US (AUKUS) anti-Chinese alliance were the final straws in breaking the influence that the hawks held over India’s establishment.”
I dare write that the Indian hawks are the Russian Atlanticists and the Indian moderates are the Russian Eurasians. But,even if it is not so, the in both parallel(?) cases anti-western camp emerges victorious.
For Russia to have no plan B in setting out it’s “ultimata” would be stupidity of the most childish kind.
There’s are lots of contributors here spouting what they think Russia will or won’t do; what Russia can or can’t do. Seems to me a lot of these people are just waving their ego’s around looking for admiration as the smart boys in the class when none of us knows what her response will be.
Both The Sake Andrei and the other Andrei, (Martyanov), people whose opinions I respect, have said that Russia doesn’t want Ukraine. Russia itself has said it has no intention of invading Ukraine.
As someone who has followed keenly the leadership of Vladimir Putin since his rise to leadership in Russia, and who takes a keen interest in international affairs and geopolitics, I have no idea how Russian will respond to their answer from US/Nato. But one thing I am sure of. Russia did not present their demands with no plan B. Vladimir’s team have shown over a long period of time exceptional competence, with Lavrov, like Putin himself, standing head and shoulders above their international peers. Togerher with Shoigu and Gerasimov, they stand out in stark relief to their Western counterparts.
I believe that Russia has received the reply it expected, and has game planned it’s next move(s) well in advance. What was it that Admiral character said in “Red October”? Russians don’t take a dump without a plan. Whatever those moves may be, I think it will be a surprise to the Western elites, and I would expect that it would leave them with some very unpalatable choices. Ordinarily, I would expect Putin to leave them a path that would save face for them, but I don’t see how he could do that and secure his own stated objective at the same time. There would be no saving face for the US in that situation, as far as I can see. Maybe I am wrong.
The truth is, we will all have to wait and see what Russia’s next play is. It is clear that if Russia just skulks away now, that Pres Putin will have lost all credibility internationally and probably domestically also. He would know that ever better than me, so I don’ think that’s a realistic possibility. Whatever the response is, I expect it will surprise all round.
regards from Ireland
1) No. They intentionally made it unpalatable. Every point rejected by the US lets Russia openly apply reciprocal pressure to the US.
2) No. They can formally finalize the admission of new countries to CSTO, or possibly create a new alliance, now that the ultimatum has been predictably rejected.
Do you think the Russian Government actually thought the treaty would be accepted – if so why?
I think the whole exercise was to diarise the Russian position for posterity. Seen at its bleakest, it enables future historians to assemble the historical skeleton of what caused disaster.
Russia, quite rightly, seems very miffed by the Western attitude towards the “not an inch eastward” assurances…the indispensables ridiculing some hick who has the temerity to question their behaviour. In exactly the same way a con-artist would respond to an investor asking where his money was.
@Mudrets
“Russian government is pulled apart by opposing forces – the Atlanticists and the Eurasian camp. This has created a schizophrenia of sorts with decision making pulled apart from all sides”
It’s Putin, Lavrov and Shoigu who call the shots. Not the intelligentsia or pro-western agents in the govt. that you speak of
Did Russia put herself on the corner?
I hope not but look like that way.
Who other than military options left to Mr. Putin?
I mean kinetic by the way.
@ Roberto
“…Who (sic) other than military options left to Mr. Putin?“
Military-technical.
Russians have been talking about that since mid-December, when they presented the draft proposals. “Pain-dial” doesn’t mean “war,” just messing up with their planes/ships/UAVs via EW would be a good beginning.
Lone Wolf
404 delenda est
There are lots of options besides war.
Gas
Massiv modern Arms sales to Iran and others
Increase presence in Syria
Extent strategic collaboration with China even more
And others….
If war in Donbas gets bad I guess many short and midrange rockets will fly
One will probably, by mistake of course, hit the US Cia headquarters in Kiew 😎
Gas, arms sales to Iran, increased presence in Syria etc. will NOT protect Russia from NATO (not yet developed, but will be) hypersonic rockets launched from Ukraine/Romania/Poland.
I think that Russian goal to remove NATO infrastructure from these countries expressed in form of request will be fulfilled by other means if the request fails to be fulfilled.
Exactly. Remove NATO infrastructure […] by other means. Or remove NATO installations..
Diplomacy has not worked.
“Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them”
William Shakespeare
The list of “peaceful” options for the Russians is almost as long as the borders of that country.
They can start by banning British and American airlines from Russian/Belorussian airspace. Next, that of the Nordic countries. Next, Germany, France and Italy … With a slow drum roll between each announcement.
Banning British and American airlines ?
What’s about Russian fleet of Airbus and Boeing ( total of 60!)
Up till now, everything has gone as expected. Now it comes the real new thing that nobody knows what will be,, the answer from Russia.
And then,, all the world will align showing their true colors, like, also as expected, Turkey.
Exactly!
Hello! so it seams the time for concecions is over.
I don´t think the russian will want to kill ukranians in an open war. It that happens they will lose the people of ukraine for the time being.
I don´t know really what Putin has in mind.
Hope they manage to get what they need without war.
Damián from argentina.
27-01-2022
Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov said the requests put forward by Russia have not been fully taken into account by Washington and NATO.
Peskov added: “For a substantive dialogue on the draft documents, there are issues of a “different nature”, but I will not get ahead of myself.”
The Different nature?
https://sputniknews.com/20220127/mtg-claims-joe-biden-willing-to-go-to-war-against-russia-as-ukraine-has-dirt-on-his-son-1092546479.html
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has confirmed that Moscow has received a written response from the US to its requests for assurances over NATO expansion.
Lavrov said: “there has been no positive response” to Russia’s core concerns.
“The main issue of our position is the unacceptability of further NATO expansion to the East and the deployment of highly-destructive weapons that could threaten the territory of the Russian Federation.”
Lavrov said:
“Our American colleagues told us, their document has been agreed with all of the US’s allies, as well as the Ukrainian side.
Although the Americans would prefer to keep their document confidential, there’s no doubt it will be leaked in the very near future.”
Maybe Putin already knew the US response yesterday, and gave his counter response promptly: https://www.rt.com/russia/547417-putin-military-plans-cuba/
In the same time Medvedev explained…..Sputnik, this morning
“We cannot distribute anything with them, because it simply has to be in accordance with their geopolitical positioning, with their national interests.” Cuba and Venezuela are trying…….ATTENTION……. to break out of isolation, to restore normal relations with the United States, ……..so there can be no question of deploying anything or creating a base, as was the case in the Soviet period when we had a common military infrastructure with many countries. on a common ideology.
The game being played is similar to the one when the disappointed Chegevara came to Moscow to be explain why the polit-biro decided (without agreement with Cuban representatives), rockets and personnel out of Cuba? Whose interests (from then on) do individuals in the Russian government represent?
@djole
Putin is the president of Russia not Medvedev.
Russia has on its side all the Nations being attacked or hit by sanctions by the US-NATO Empire during more than 2 decades. They are all willing to contribute to the downfall of the US and NATO, preferably without being bombed to smithereens in the process.
If Cuba, Venezuela and other South American Nations are feeling threatened by the US, and would like to have Russian missiles to protect their Nations, there would be no international law prohibiting these Nations to install such defense systems on their own territory.
If the US objects to Russian built missiles in Cuba, the US at the same time acknowledges that US built Missiles in Ukraine are a threat to Russia, and will surely create a new debate in America, whether the US missiles in Ukraine are a bright idea. Last time such deployments was discussed between Russia and the US, JFK backed down and removed US missiles from Turkey.
I expect to see satellite images of new constructions sites for Russian missiles in Cuba, within a few weeks. These pictures will fill the MSM headlines in America, and a new problem for the American population will be blamed on President Biden just before the midterm election.
Rather than Russian missiles in Cuba or Venezuela, an appropriate equivalent to US missiles in Ukraine would be Russian missiles in Texas or Canada.
Ukraine was part of Russia from about 800 AD, whereas the USA only stole Texas from Mexico in the 1840s. Please note, 1,000 years later. Also, Russia “sold” Alaska to the USA under duress – the alternative was annexation with nothing in return.
”Also, Russia “sold” Alaska to the USA under duress – the alternative was annexation with nothing in return.”
Yes,it was fear of annexation,not exactly by the Americans,but by the British after the Crimean War,
https://www.rbth.com/arts/2014/04/20/why_did_russia_sell_alaska_to_the_united_states_36061.html
”Then the Crimean War broke out, and Britain, France and Turkey stood against Russia. It became clear that Russia could neither supply nor defend Alaska — the sea routes were controlled by the allies’ ships. Even the prospect of mining gold dimmed. There was a fear that the British might block Alaska, and then Russia would be left with nothing.
Tensions between Moscow and London grew, while relations with the American authorities were warmer than ever. Both sides almost simultaneously came up with the idea of selling Alaska. So Baron Eduard de Stoeckl, Russia’s envoy in Washington, opened talks with U.S. secretary of state William Seward on behalf of the tsar.”
@djole
“Cuba and Venezuela are trying…….ATTENTION……. to break out of isolation, to restore normal relations with the United States”
And since the United States do not want to restore normal relations with Cuba or Venezuela, but to break them, “buying” Russian weapons to protect themselves is quite rational move. It doesn’t have to be Russian base in Cuba. It can be Cuban base armed with Russian missiles. With significant number of Russian instructors in it. Like US advisors in Ukraine.
Only with such leverage Cuba and Venezuela can hope to gain normal relations with US. Of course, only after normalization of US/Russia relations and removing NATO infrastructure from Russian border.
Tit for tat.
But I do not think Russia will go that way. It is much more efficient to continue dismantling remnants of British empire, one teritory at time.
Middle East is next logical step, because there are much more significant allies than across the ocean. Losing ME would be shattering blow to already troubled UK/US duopoly.
That can be “translation” what Medvedev said.
Saker
I feel sure you are already working on this but has there been any real progress? I know Russia says it wants to stop NATO expansion but in reality what it really wants is to stop installation of dangerous missiles along its borders.
If and it is a very big if there is real progress on removal of missiles from Europe, then has not Russia achieved quite a bit. Obviously such a promise needs clear time lines and verification etc but the outcome is the same.
It is not in fact the membership of NATO which matters but the presence of missiles (and I guess other armed forces). Perhaps I am being too optimistic.
There are calls for Russia to increase the arms of Donbass. Could Russia cancel all USA relations…..total diplomatic shutdown considering USA has sent Russian 27 home early ….similarly as Russia says will not talk to EU but individual members….but keep “talking” to NATO….? Bulgarian also says like Croatia it will not send troops to Ukraine but UK press says UK will send troops to eastern Balkans including Bulgaria Romania Hungary so how come it can host foreign troops but decry its own seems a bit weird- maybe they are waking up to the Nato can go anywhere it wants do what it wants it signed up to. Big mistake. Any country hosting Nato troops could be put in a situation to regret hopefully.
Maybe Hungary which seems to be in the middle so to speak….has excellent relations with Russia and supports Minsk and raises concerns about eastern european countries not having a say in the big schemes….could be rethinking its position for example as a member of the Visegrad 4 to which russophobic Poland belongs.
EU vote today in PACE re Russia to lose its voting powers.
Croatian leaders yesterday denied what their president said. After consultatons with Angloamericans, black line sad they do not care whether President Milanovic(red line) will sign anything or not. In Croatia, there is aa backup option (red line) that they push forward when Moscow is angry. Similar to Bulgaria.This red line current originates from Mesic’s Ustashas in WWII, which after the defeat at Stalingrad, were introduced by soviet NKDV service among the liberating serbian fighters (something similar what happened with the Polish nazi forces). After that Zagreb, Croatia became the center of communist actions against monarchist Serbia. To this day, Belgrade is ruled by the children of the Croatian UDBA (Yugoslav Civil Service) and the Slovenian KOS (Yugoslav Military Service). Many of them work for Sputnik Srbija (which is the only Russian newspaper in the region), many kids are part of Belgrade jet-set, or are members of Serbain Academy of Science.They also control the business oligarchy and allow the Croatian and Slovenian micro-economies to survive, by destroying Serbia. According to Croatian sources, Russia has more investments in Croatia than in Serbia.
Russia has more investments in Croatia than in Serbia. You have to thank Vucic for that favoring western investments! It surprised me that Serbia despite minister Mihajlovic sabotaging even allowed the South Stream.
“Croatian leaders yesterday denied what their president said.”
“Denied” is the wrong word; you may have meant “contradicted.” In either case their objections are immaterial because Croatia can’t send troops outside its borders without presidential authorization. Here’s the relevant passage from the Croatian constitution, which is easily googled:
“The Republic of Croatia may render assistance to allied states in the case of armed
aggression on one or more thereof as stipulated under ratified international treaties, pursuant
to a decision of the Croatian Parliament proposed by the Government of the Republic of
Croatia with the prior consent of the President of the Republic of Croatia.”
Tell me, since when do Croats respect the Constitution? Is there a document that they did not violate if it does not agree with their intentions? Funny. Let me remind you, the war in Yugoslavia began by “croatain respecting” the Constitution.
Djole, is Vucic coming from Croatian UDBA family?
For Russia, this is a critical Stalingrad moment. For China, here is a taste of what the Empire has in store for it. Said Empire has just showed, possibly like it never did before, it’s true devious, inflexible nature (and colours…).
The time has come for those two world leaders to unite as one, to mobilize all their allies and to face the tyrannical, hegemonic imperial reality squarely, just as it is, with no illusions whatsoever. What we are experiencing right now has been in the making for decades and more. The Empire will NEVER change and be reasonable. FORCE is all that lot understands and lives by.
The moment of truth is now, Time to rallye that 85% of humanity that rejects categorically the hegemony of the 15% and to fight for the uncompromising freedom of mankind. That long, arduous struggle against the world’s Hegemon is just, will therefore forever be eminently worthwhile.
Folks, not sure if you noticed this… Lavrov sounded a bit desperate when describing addiotnal letters to be sent… The overall impression is reluctant admission of the failure of the diplomacy to solve this crisis.. This really hints that the next is millitary who will be looking into solving this… scary things…
Havibg a good grasp of history, he knows that the failure of diplomacy can only lead to war. After all, it is the continuation of politics by other means. The problem is the escalation that may lead to uncontrollable situations.
“Those who will not talk to Lavrov will have to talk to Shoigu”.
Naturally Mr Lavrov must regret the prospect of having to take a seat on the bench while the offensive team run onto the field.
And, of course, he will be horrified by the prospective loss of life.
This was as expected. In my opinion, this insulting refusal to consider Russia’s crucial proposal with regard to non-expansion of NATO closer to Russia’s borders proves that the US and her allies do not care about Russian concerns. As I see it, great powers act to safeguard their own interests, they don’t beg their enemies for “security guarantees”. As usual the ever polite Mr Lavrov will agree to even more talks and negotiations until the substance of Russia’s proposals are watered down.
regard your last sentence- is not going happen….
I agree, it’s all out in the open and crystal clear: the Empire is not budging from its position. So, Russia will start cranking up its pain dial, keep strengthening its ties with China, Iran, BRI, CSTO, and increase its production of lethal weapons. It seems to me that Russia still has the winning hand. For a change in this scenario Stoltenberg has to get Zelensky to start the attack on Donetsk and then NATO/Ukraine will pay the price.
Everybody is speculating about Russia’s response, yet things are happening right in front of our eyes,the massive drills that are happening all around,the joint patrol between Russia and Syria,the grand Turan dream shattered with the move in Kazakhstan, the call to arm the LDNR forces with sophisticated arms..Russians don’t do the obvious
@Jay: “This was as expected.”
As expected, like I wrote before, when feral cats or dogs trespass on your garden those with guilty conscience will slink away as soon as they notice you looking out of the window with eyes on them. That is already the case with Germany, France and Ukraine itself: Germany and France are no longer allowing NATZO weapons into Ukraine, and Ukraine regime is now assuring the world Russian invasion.
Also as expected, you cannot expect the U$A to have a guilty conscience; because if the U$A had a conscience it would not have slaughtered 20 Million people since the end of WW2. As expected the Cat from Uncle will not slink away just because someone is looking – at least not right away. So Russia will take the next step to warn off feral trespassers: open the door and prepare to move out.
“There are and should always be prospects… for further dialogue,” he said. “It is in our interests and in the interests of the Americans. But as for the substantive dialogue on the draft documents, there are issues of a different nature, but I will not get ahead of myself,” Peskov added
My interpretation of Peskov’s declaration is that they will never close the door for dialogue but that for the time being, there is no further discussion to be had on the content of the letter and Russia’s security proposal/demands and that other “methods” and “means” will be used to make sure Russian interests are defended and respected. He will not discuss what the next steps could be, obviously.
Russia never closes the door to dialogue, even when at war. Russian will talk to their enemies, even if it’s to say: ” Have you had enough ? wanna discuss this like responsible adults ?”. This is especially true when considering the fact that they are in a struggle with an adversary which not only could destroy Russia, but put an end to human civilization.
Western media tries to paint this as a sign of weakness from Russia because their only goal is to subdue, not negotiate. Russia knows this, so they will adopt a balanced approach to make sure the West comes to his senses. They have to, they owe it to their people. Anything else would be evil. If it comes to the worst, their conscience will be clear.
Sorry, the video seems unavailable for the whole time now. 1hr and half of “Beeeeeeee” sound with the neutral screen. No sign of any speech other than the image of Lavrov in front of the mic.
The content and tone of Lavrov’s statement was perfect.
For me Russia should take an advantage it has in hypersonic weapon systems to act now. Can anybody tell me any US air defense systems that can intercept Zircon, Avangarde, or Kinzhal. Russia should go into full Cold War II mode with west just like the Soviet Union did. Assuming the Soviet Union was so poor but had powerful weapons the West would still fear and respect it.
They do not want to listen. So Russia has 2 possibilities.
1. Consider that they will never listen. An eye for an eye. In a visible and lasting way deploy a tangible threat near the USA. Long term treaty for a base near the USA. Sell Syria and Iran the weapons necessary to force Israel into a secure long-term defensive posture. The Chinese could deploy a more dissuasive presence in Djibouti with Russian leased cover of S500s and an electronic warfare complex. At the same time seduction actions towards Saudi Arabia. Welcoming China, Iran, Syria in the organization of collective security.
2. Considering that increasing pressure could lead them to listen. Very kinetic actions under plausible deniability, against key satellites, against submarine cables, arming Houthis and Iraqi militias. In case of a terror operation on the Donbass, targeting without warning NATO special troops. Complete mop up of the five commun in Russia. Etc…
Russia would not have started this without a plan that takes into account every possible response from the American opposition, with a choice of options at every stage. Flexibility will allow the plan to evolve as and when necessary.
Neither do we know who else is on board, and what their part will be.
The Russians are confident, they are now making the reality to which the West has to respond.
The boot is on the other foot.
My reading of this situation is that Russia really, really, does not want to go to war. Until she does.
Chechnya is now firmly part of Russia.
Georgia is neutralised.
Syria is stable and now a signatory of China’s BRI.
Crimea is now firmly part of Russia.
Kazakhstan is stable.
Have I forgotten any?
Ukraine is a work in progress. Watch this space.
Turkey is interesting. Erdogan seems to be lighting both ends of the tightrope he is walking.
Europe? Perhaps soon the governments of Germany and France will travel to Moscow to discuss the future of Europe.
Yes, you forgot Belarus, which after some time of flirting with the West, is now firmly back in the Russian orbit and probably on track to an eventual re-unification.
You are correct. My only excuse is that the “color revolution” in Belarus was so ham-fisted it failed to register.
I also think you are correct is predicting a unified state between Russia and Belarus. To support this notion, I noticed that Belarus contributed to the forces sent to Kazakhstan, and the recent troop movement between Russia and Belarus in the current Ukraine situation.
The RF foreign service has already achieved much by forcing its agenda over much of the world press. The RF has imposed its request to have written responses returned to the Kremlin. These came in the form of non answers to non ultimatums. The immediate tangible result is that it has fractured the sacrosanct “NATO unity.” The NATO hardliners are losing Old Europe plus some former hardliners in the Balkans. NS2 has definitely split the new German coalition government. Turkey appears to be sitting this one out as well as it is obvious that Turkey & Germany share interests. Ukrainian oligarchs must be well aware now that Ukrainan statehood has been designated as the sacrificial lamb to advance the NATO hardliners’s agenda. It is in the chopping block but Moscow refuses to touch it with a 10 foot pole. Note that before the non answers to the non ultimatums were received by the Kremlin, 120 warships were dispatched for naval wargames to “all areas of their responsibility.” This in effect pre positions the 120 warships to their pre-war theatres of operation. The empire has a closing window of time to address or attempt to contain China’s growth. Russia is keeping the empire distracted and diluting the hegemonic agenda. There may not be nuclear missiles deployed to Latin America but likely an increment n frequency of port calls of RF & Chinese surface warships and strategic bombers and boomers. This will no doubt irritate the empire. The empire just removed the maximalist hardliners from the JCPOA negotiating team. This reveals the fear that an Iran, China & Russia coordination causes on the bankers and financiers. Shutting all of the natural gas flows to Europe in the winter compounded with any trouble at the strait of Hormuz is the ultimate nightmare for the US$ world. Qatar announced to the empire envoys that there is very little spare capacity to supply Europe with LNG in case Russia’s Natural Gas supply gets interrupted. Australia replied that they have spare capacity. Good luck with that! There are not enough LNG tankers in the world for such a fool’s errand. Meantime RF is going to keep the pressure with its on going war game deployments to Belarus and naval wargames in all areas of responsibility. Likewise, the empire will keep goading Russia to invade Ukraine. The world is awaiting in panic for a false flag provocation. That is why the 120 warships are at sea, ready to receive orders and press the buttons.
…”RF is going to keep the pressure with its on going war game deployments to Belarus and naval wargames in all areas of responsibility. Likewise, the empire will keep goading Russia to invade Ukraine. The world is awaiting in panic for a false flag provocation. That is why the 120 warships are at sea, ready to receive orders and press the buttons”.
yes, the world will now continue like this, in constant tension, cat after mouse, mouse after cat: under a fog of threats, lies, propaganda, and lots, lots of tension! And all the people going to the mall to use their credit card to buy the latest fashion and watch Sacha Borat on netflix at the end of the night! Pandora’s box has been opened!!!
“And all the people going to the mall to use their credit card to buy the latest fashion and watch Sacha Borat on netflix at the end of the night! Pandora’s box has been opened!!!”
To each his own, but yours isn’t my priority. I will look for a reliable outdoor wood stove-boiler to connect to my radiant in-floor heating with renewables and will try to get a reliable generator. Food supply sources may not be as difficult to secure for me as there are quite a few cattle producers, butchers and farmers around me.
yea. Borat is a bad, dishonest film. I meant that people are living as if nothing is happening in Ukraine. Shopping, Netflix, etc. Complete alienation. Yes, too many indebted and depressed these days.
One must acknowledge America in their response may not have scored points but they’re definitly not on their own one yard line with only seconds remaining. Hate giving credit but there must be some competence remaining. Competence maybe no but shrud evil abilities yes. Masters at propoganda.
So America did well responding to the Russia red line. Forgive me for repeating what those filthy liars say but does seem the ball is in Russian court. Focus is all on Putin and what Russia next move will be.
Chuck, as you say, the ball is in the Russian court. On that ball is a message the Russians expected: written in exactly the same tone that “a con-artist would respond to an investor asking where his money was” (see Guy Thornton above).
Hello.
I was only commenting on the American response. Not saying I agree with it at all. But it’s true the ball is in Russian court. Now if only instead of hitting it back Russia tears down the net, crosses over and gives good whipping using their own racket. Yes as the world looks on and learns lesson.
Pennsylvania Chuck: “Russia tears down the net, crosses over and gives good whipping using their own racket. World looks on and learns lesson.”
Like that hot headed hoodlum punching away and kicking trashcans around in The Godfather movie? Didn’t end well for him, did it?
The grapevine in Moscow says that it was not NATO in Ukraine, which has been a long standing red line over which Kremlin did nothing since 2008, but the swinish charges of “high treason” against Medvedchuk and Kozak that made Vladimir Vladimirovich change his mind about intervening in Kiev. By removing Putin’s closest allies from political life, CIA and MI6, figured they would make short shrift of the “Russian factor” in Ukraininian politics. Bad mistake!
I “listened” to the first 1 hour 24 minutes of … high pitched noise.
Lavrov starts talking at 1 hr 24 min 40 sec.
Main takeaway for me: at 1hr 29 min 40 sec, Lavrov said he asked Blinken about how can they explain this stance of theirs to which they consider they can look at applications of OSCE as some kind of menu from which they can (pick and) choose only parts…and then promise to do (part) and choose to ignore (the rest), and Tony’s response is to just shrug his shoulders. (Shrugging shoulders to me is essentially saying “What can I say?)
this western blindness is incurable, and I also assumed that it is a sign of the times, that it is incurable. So one of two things will now happen on the planet:
1 – the world will now be entering a stage of constant tension (cold war 2.0), cat and mouse phase – Tom & Jerry, with endless threats and demands, and Russia and China demanding security and threatening the dollar’s hegemony, and constant Russian and Chinese “technical-military” actions. I think that’s more likely.
2 – some kinetic war in Ukraine or Taiwan, and even less likely, a nuclear war.
Many 2 years ago said it wouldn’t be like this. But here we are. And I repeat again, we have reached an impasse, and because of Chinese growth, we have reached a dead end. And no one can say that from now on we will have a new world, or any world. Deadlock is deadlock! The no-ultimatum is a natural ultimatum, given the circumstances.
Germany will be pragmatic, it will be on the fence, waiting for one side to fall. The world had thus become constantly tense, and a deadlier strain of the coronavirus had arrived this year. They opened Pandora’s box and only hope remained ???
3 points
1) Lavrov is now referring to the West as counterparts and not partners. Good!
2) Thanks be to God that these western parasites failed in their Belarus colour revolution as this would have strengthened, prolonged NATO’s hand further.
3) Russia ( an extremely wealthy country ) blessed with an abundance of resources and debt free is negotiating with an indebted/ bankrupt west in freefall, where 9/11 (and Aftermath/The War On terror ), now Covid 19, have temporarily staved off a 30 year/generational Depression by kicking the can down the road. When the SHTF a Mad Max dystopian future will prevail, happening already, tent cities on an alarming scale sprouting up all across America, including California.
The Federal Reserve has been on life support for 2 decades unable to raise interest rates even 1% and hitched to that waggon the German, French & Bank of England’s European House of Cards collapse soon after.
Little wonder then that the desperate actions of America/NATO and their presstitutes 24/7concertinaed propaganda are in full force, their very livelihood /existence depend on it.
Russia holds ALL THE CARDS and can save Europe, so why the long face Sergei?
I think the point of this not ultimatum was to confirm that the intentions of the west are nothing short of total submission of Russia and also to demonstrate this domestically to the Russian people. I also think that the Ukraine is a distraction from the real target(s) which i believe are turkey and/or Syria and ultimately Iran. Iran is the proverbially Caucasus oil fields that must be taken before the invasion of Russia can commence.
The US war groupies have arrived. This is sickening, but it is not unheard of or unknown.
“Their presence in Ukraine is primarily to look cool and push their brand on the backs of Ukranians dying,” a source told CIG, elaborating on the Group’s activities in the region. “Your average FOG dude might give light tips to infantry in Ukraine but nowhere the amount they need”.
https://www.rt.com/russia/547425-us-soldiers-ukraine-front/
The main point I understand is that Russia Cannot and hopefully WILL NOT, from this moment on, allow any weapons on border countries that would threaten Russia. So I don’t know how they are going to do this. I assume they have some kind of strategy that I have no idea about, but that this strategy is not what they would prefer to use, for whatever reason. I know nothing about these kind of things, but my imagination tells me that Russia would prefer to trade and operate peacefully, and that this now looks impossible, so to me that says that those potential relationships for trade and further co-existence are going to be broken in some way. I have no idea which way.
I have read many many viewpoints about what Russia should do or is suspected it will do, in the end, I think the people who are deciding this now know much more about all the aspects of this. I hope for them that they now do what is right for THEM, the rest of us have to take the consequences. If not, then Russia AND the rest of us will all be facing the consequences. I prefer Russia to prevail than the other side.
amen
The content and tone of Lavrov.s statement was perfect.
I think Russia will respond with overwhelming but highly selective force – but only when there remain no other options. Weapons that threaten Russia must be destroyed, so they will be.
At the same time, it will be important to focus tightly on those responsible, while avoiding what Washington calls “collateral damage”. That is, US or British forces that are trying to harm Russia will be liquidated, but the people of the nations in question will be told that Russia has no quarrel with them.
If necessary, Russia has the option of striking those specific individuals responsible for ordering attacks on Russia. It has the means to do so without using weapons of mass destruction.
Remember that in WWII, in the face of the invading German army, Russia dismantled its industrial base, put it on railroad cars, moved it eastward and reassembled it. I don’t know of any other country that could have pulled that off. Russia finds solutions, plain and simple.
There is one more country that did something similar – Kingdom of Serbia.
In WWI (1915) when German, Austro-Hungarian and Bulgarian armies entered Serbia, it refused to surrender. So, the army and many, many civilians pulled southward to Greek island of Corfu. And fully reestablished state institutions there – government, supreme and minicipaly courts, schools, various newspapers etc., even jails with responsibility areas of Serbian counties. Entire state structure from central to local authorities and institutions transferred to Corfu.
Number one, as I’ve said before hoping for a positive answer from the US,is a “pipe dream”,they won’t give one. Which brings me to number two. There is an interesting article on RT by Scott Ritter. Normally I’d say we have no way to know if he’s correct or not. But in this case we may very well have to find out:
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/547526-us-power-biden-ukraine/
A dozen years since its commission, $7 Billion and counting over budget, strike carrier USS Gerald R Ford remains a floating barge for F-35’s, themselves falling into the sea willy nilly. A decade behind Russia on weapon technologies. What’s not to like? Why the doom and gloom peeps?
Time to call Europe’s bluff and turn off the GAZ for 3 months, while you make necessary repairs to NS1 (not to be confused with NS2 ) and the lights go out, Governments FALL.
Remember, it’s Russian Energy that allows those tanks & weapon systems manoeuvres on this continent. Turn that spigot off and the EU goes dark and no time like the present.
. . . . . cutting of SWIFT (BAH!), who cares when hearts and minds are shitting in the dark?
The Russians need to talk to some Native Americans to understand what the worth of written agreements are from the U.S. Government. The U.S.A. is playing the same game with Russia that they played with the Native American Nations.
The only thing understood in the United States is the physical force of hand. Russia needs to come to that realization, and act accordingly.
Exactly, Robert. The Washington creatures use Machiavelli as their Bible. Machiavelli’s hero Cesare Borgia lied, cheated and betrayed whenever it suited him, and so do they.
What if the NATO expands to Russian bordering countries.Russia should protect its borders .We Indians never say Chinese is expanding its military strength or china has nuclear weapons.we face them.ukraine has right to take care of its foreign policy.Russia can’t say Ukraine what to do and what not to do.if Russia wants to integrate Russian speaking people of eastern Ukraine then Russia should integrate them and leave rest of the western Ukraine.Russia is military power who knows to safeguard it’s border.why should Russia worry about NATO expansion.we Indians never worried about Chinese or Pakistanis .come on Russia behave like a super power,don’t beg for written promises.even if nato gives you anything in writing it is not guarantee that they adhere to the promise made in writing.this is clear from Iran’s nuclear deal.i say just annex eastern Ukraine and start protecting your borders .
Note:if I am wrong kindly correct me .
I agree with most of what you say, Mohammed. But when you write that “we Indians never worried about Chinese or Pakistanis”, I think you underestimate the huge difference between the USA’s relationship to Russia and those of China and Pakistan to India.
While I don’t know much about South Asian history and politics, it seems to me that while India has sometimes had quite serious disagreements with China and Pakistan, they have never reached the point of threatening a war to the death. India and China have ancient civilisations, as well as wonderful religious traditions such as Buddhism and Taoism which teach the way of peace. Pakistan is a younger culture, but seems increasingly willing to get along with its neighbours.
In sharp contrast, it seems obvious that the ruling clique in the USA (and UK and Europe) are desperate to destroy Russia as a nation state, in order to plunder its enormous natural resources. (They wouldn’t turn up their noses at a chance to do the same with India or China).
It would seem wise for all Asian nations to band together, in whatever way they see fit, to resist foreign sedition and conquest. Fortunately, with the loose alliance of China, Russia and Iran, that seems possible. I very much hope India and Pakistan are willing to do what they can to make Asia “looter proof”.
I’m my view india is acting acording to west’s script,Indian foreign policy is not independent.Had it been independent India would have joined BRI initiative keeping aside all border issues with china.indians are dancing to the tunes of west.back of India’s present govt is of cotton .they just talk on tv shows .nothing on ground reality.presentbindian govt doesn’t think about masses of India,only few upper caste politicians and bureaucrats and diplomats and military generals are running the show by projecting modi as the strong face .The so called upper caste politicians, diplomats and bureaucrats will one fine day take western citizenship and disappear from india forever as they are acting on behalf of west.west will provide safe heavens for their families and retirement.ordinary masses don’t realise this fact and are slept away in the propaganda machine .china is threatening and this govt doesn’t utter a word about China.india is puppet state of West .what is the necessity for india to join in quad,which is in no way helpfull for india.back in 2010 the then govt upa led by Congress was shifting towards brics and sco.west doesnt like it and they orchestrated Indian color revolution by using puppet called Anna Hazare .countless sheeple came on road not knowing the fact that it was colour revolution.God help india it has so many fractures which makes it to destabilize from inside and to add salt on the wounds political leaders polarise the indian masses based on caste creed region religion etc God save my motherland from internal and external forces.it will only be possible to come to realise the reality that everyone should put nation first compared to personal or caste or religious agendas.
I firmly believe India’s future is bright with china,russia.iran and eurasian countries along with gulf monarchy States West is rotten egg and has no relevance in eurasia.
India should mend ties with pakistan.as whatever happened backbin1947;cannot be undone.The only thing Indians must concentrate is well being of their middle class which is backbone of economy and try to become economic power .
Now, I do not think Russians wanted to negotiate or to give ultimatum. They just didn’t want to feel bad for what is coming next.
Anglos are walking into trap, mindlessly.
“Negotiation” goes and goes and some are buying time, some do not have time. They might and will make time. Or not?
However, concerns are genuine and very serious. It looks that “partners/colleagues,” want to provoke a partner to start something like they provoke Japan in 1941 sanctioning its fuel supplies. Well, Japan was not a global power, this partner is.
No one is asking the people of all “partners/colleagues” states what are partners’ aims and if possible Armageddon is in their interest. The situation on the “partner’s/colleagues” side is like one-eyed following the blind just that those one-eyed are opening both eyes and mouth also when they look at the vast resources of a single partner.
Well, how the things are the single partner said that they know that they will go to the angels and it looks like all on the other side “partners/colleagues” did not wash properly their ears to listen carefully as greed and utmost narcissuses prevailed. Such stupidity is beyond comprehension.
Just when you hear the statements that it was worthy to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children for the conquest of that country, one human being understands with what creatures humanity has to deal. “Hard choice, but it was worth it…” was replied.
Will there be anyone left from “partners/colleagues,” to say if this all was worth it?
Hope is dying last!
Thanks for the translstion, their interpreter’s accent is very hard to understand for me.
It’s becoming fairly apparent to me that Putin’s strategy is to slowly but relentlessly build troops and equipment on the border with Eastern Europe until the the West starts to feel the threat that Russia has been feeling for the last 32 years as NATO moved troops and equipment eastward. The goal is to bring the West to the negotiating table in earnest. Will it work? Will he bring in Chinese and Iranian troops?
this comment has been flagged as of little/no value (possibly troll) by the saker
I sincerely hope there is some hidden play by Russia in all this, otherwise it’s just sad and painful to watch. Ok, now they have a written confirmation that empire will not change its course not now not ever, something which they knew all along, so now what? I’m just reading the headline on RT: “War between Russians & Ukrainians is unacceptable to Moscow” which seams to me personally as a honest and right statement to make, so why not go after the perpetrators of all this evil going on around the world for so many years now instead? Why not sanction or perhaps even declare a war on those who will not stop at anything to accomplish their sinister goals? Ukraine and its people are just hostages in this play from the start. People can be manipulated and made quite mad. I mind you that Serbs committed so many war crimes in the 90’s based on their nationalistic sentiment and newly discovered hatred towards non-Serbs (something they conveniently forget all the time), unaware that they were just a CIA’s instrument in destruction of Yugoslavia, thinking that what they were doing was in the best interest of Serb people while quite the opposite is truth. Same goes for all of us others…. and Ukrainians in this case. I salute Croatia’s president Milanovic for his moral values which he expressed in regards to this crisis. Serbs, Croats and Bosnians are brothers, just like Russians and Ukrainians are, it seams that Russia has learned from Serb mistakes. If we reclaim our pan-Slavic brotherhood and unity, if we reject “divide & conquer” which we are being poisoned with, if we start hitting those who really deserve it instead of hitting each others…. then count me in. Slavs are not just Orthodox, Slavs are also Catholic, Muslim and atheist and who knows what else more. Russia has retreated behind its red lines, it’s the right moment in history to reverse this. Bombing Ukraine to stone age or advancing to Dnjepr will accomplish nothing historically good. Bombing pentagon, NATO HQ, Langley or MI6 is much more meaningful and powerful as a statement then bombing Kiev. And if there is a nuclear Armageddon as a result of it so be it. My greatest regret is that there is no Tito’s Yugoslav People’s Army anymore which I would gladly be a part of in resisting neoliberal nightmare imposed on my peoples. Socialism is long gone, but the Soviet and Yugoslav spirits are not. When Russia contemplates on asymmetric response, it should take this into account. Invite Milanovic to Moscow along with other ex-Yu leaders (not just Vucic and Dodik), invite Zelensky, invite Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians, Balts, Slovaks, Czech, Hungarians… but close the door (and the gas tap) to UK, USA, Aus(t)ralia and similar. As Gandhi said : be the change you want to see in the world.
Smrt fasizmu drugovi ;)
You besmirch all the high principles you pretend to espouse by conveniently forgetting that Slovenia and Croatia were killing innocent Serbs with the help of the Vatican and Germany as early as 1991 and that the Islamists in Sarajevo rejected every opportunity to settle peacefully – egged on by the USA and all the other “neoliberal” detritus. With friends like you, who needs enemies.
Yes, that is why the Croats, Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, the Volksdeutsche and even Slovenians had at least one SS division each and the Serbs who had two liberation movements in WWII are the only nation not to impose sanctions on Russia. Don’t assume people have forgotten – or forgiven.
Okay, I reluctantly let you post this reply.
Sarajevo veteran baited you and derailed the conversation by going totally offtopic.
Your last comment was important, so I let it pass (the mods did not).
But now, after this one, this exchange is over.
Any further posts on this topic will result in bans.
Andrei
I agree with you. If I understand you correctly. It’s time nation’s who desire righteous peace unite. Stand up and tell America your behavior in the world will no longer be tolerated. Conflict, destruction, war will only continue until America is defanged or worse. They are only waiting and planning on other ways to destroy and control Russia. Their attempts will never end. We hear constantly America is in decline, in final death throughs, but I wonder if true. And sadly I wonder if there’ll ever be a force to end their destruction and murder around the world. But I will not give up hope. Russia stands for alot of good things, things my country once embraced. Now we and others are moral filth plaguing the world. My faith is in God and in Russia. God bless.
United States National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan responded, “noting that Russian military activity in Latin America had not been a point of discussion at recent security talks, but said that the US would act “decisively” if it did happen” https://www.rt.com/russia/547417-putin-military-plans-cuba/ There you have it, the US has the Munroe doctrine to which others are not allowed to set up bases in the US back yard [Latin America]. Whereas the exceptional nation will set up bases right on Russian borders if it wishes. Russia has no choice other than to disabuse them of such a notion, failure to do so is not an option, 1/ It would embolden the US to draw the net tighter, more bases, sanctions etc. 2/ It would mean Russia had no self respect.
Mr. Lavrov has conceded that Mr. Blinken has allowed for many avenues of diplomacy and discussion between the RF and the US in the future… on lesser matters, not to be confused with the Big Issue. On these proposals Blinken remains mute and Russia refuses to let the US sideswipe them. The US and Germany made such-and-such promises, they were recorded in memoirs of the players at the time, Blinken says that doesn’t count, they were only kidding, etc. Let’s see… Oh, look! The Istanbul and Astana Declarations, signed by a whole slew of people, affirm them as fact. Blinken shrugs, which means he can’t just dismiss them. Lavrov described this as ‘hypocritical,’ and cherry picking at the buffet (paraphrased,) which is the strongest language I have heard him use.
Now the important point: Lavrov will contact all of the signatories of those agreements and ask them for comment. This has the effect of negating what the US is trying to do while forestalling war by a little while. More jaw, jaw, jaw, while steadily demolishing the US’s position.
I think Russia is just paying out more rope (that the US sold them) so the likes of Blinken, et al., can hang themselves.
IMO Russia-China’s “asymmetric response” to expect shortly: the formation of a NATOish national security
and economic prosperity counterweight “working to establish a multipolar world and establishing a just and rational international order.” Sorry folks but this precludes a high drama kinetic response, and is profoundly more effective in achieving key long term strategic objectives of Russia, China, Eurasia, and many others…including some Europeans. With China’s economic power, this will cut the head off the dangerous, coiled, hissing cobra (the US) quickly and bloodless. Expect an announcement of some embryonic alliance at Olympics? With the carrot of shared economic prosperity and peace via ironclad shared mutual defense, NATO dissolves quickly. Germany abandons ship first?? Check mate. Bank on it.
This is why the US is doing everything in its power to cause Russia to spill blood in Ukraine…so they can brand the new alliance negatively and discourage Ukraine and other FSU countries from being a part of it.
The US administration clearly believes the US can win a war with Russia.
Possibly they are right. Of course the consequences of such a war would be very bad for Europe – possibly catastrophic for Europe – but the US does not really care about that.
So I understand the US position. What I don’t understand is why the EU is supporting the US in this. Maybe some of the smaller countries (Poland, Baltic states, Finland) just have stupid leaders at the moment – I don’t really know, but it’s possible. But the bigger countries – Germany, France – surely understand that a war in Europe is a disaster for Europe. So why are they following the US plan?
At every step in this process Washington, when given a choice between accepting peace, justice and prosperity for all in Europe or demanding war and death, the Americans have quite definitively and assertively chosen war and death. One must question their sanity.
Clearly they must still believe that everyone before them will always cower and give them everything they want no matter how unjust and absurd just because they are so special. They think their bluffs will work ad infinitum because they are exceptional, or some such bullshit. They damned well KNOW they are pushing Russia down the only path it can take in response to their outrages, namely armed conflict. Biden, Blinken and the Bull Shitters know this means Armageddon, because even China is now telling them to their faces of the consequences to their actions, and some NATO members are pre-emptively opting out of the coming war (at this point Croatia and Bulgaria, hopefully many more soon enough).
Our government in Washington would rather lead us to our graves than to display the slightest concession to anybody, even though the biggest fool on Earth can perceive that the alternatives offered by its chosen “enemies” are infinitely better and harmful to no one. Moreover, Washington’s abysmal reputation for mutual respect, fairness and rational action would suddenly zoom to the stratosphere if Washington for once took the moral high road and conceded that Russia, as befits every country, does deserve respect and security assurances, rather than being endlessly framed, vilified and threatened at every turn. However, if Washington chooses to display the hubris of Hitler to the bitter end, it will perish like der Fuhrer.
“After an inter-agency coordination of our conclusions, we will submit them to President Vladimir Putin, who will make a decision on our further actions.”
That’s it. Lavrov aproach failed . He acts like someone who is content with new reality. He’s done everything.
Enter Shoigu.
Likely, VVP already decided what further actions will be. We won’t have to wait too long. Certainly not months, probably not even weeks.
My bet is that Russia will avoid killing drafted Ukrainian soldiers , and concentrate attack on extremists and NATO infrastructure. Because it can. Think about dealing with Syrian and Chechen terrorists as template.
Not sure what will happen if Poland allow to be pushed into conflict, but Shoigu certainly has it in mind.
Lavrov can take vacation, for now. He deserves it.
Update: We do not had to wait even days, but hours.
One possible approach, assuming the U.S. and NATO have definitively rejected returning to the situation before NATO expansion in 1997, might be for the Russians, at some convenient date, shortly after the end of the Winter Olympics, for instance, to inform the U.S. and NATO that they must must remove all foreign installations and military forces back to the border in 1997, the eastern border of Germany, within a set period; 30 days for example. At the same time get explicit authority from both houses of the Federal Assembly, as constitutionally required, to intervene militarily if not. And then be prepared the day following, the 31st in the example, to remove them by force, with long-range conventional weapons — Iskanders, Zircons, Kaibers, whatever. At the same time, a few days before the deadline, put all the nuclear forces on high alert: subs at sea, long-range bombers to arctic bases, mobile ICBM’s deployed to the field, etc., just in case. It may be nothing else would work.
I think that Russia got the answer they expected. Whatever you think, VVP does not have absolute controle of the country, and this answer is designed to rally the Russian people behind some drastic measures.
For some reason I can’t get the six heavily loaded troop ships on the way to the mediterranean out of my mind, and think that they are a part of this “drastic measures”.
What everybody forgets is that Russia can also stage a coup in Ukraine to bring a pro-Russian leader.
In fact, the brits have been promoting such an idea over the past week.
If the situation in Ukraine is dire, there will be many people who would support warmer ties with Russia.
The US has already charged Russia with this “crime.” The US has even identified alleged members of the legislative opposition in Ukraine as leaders in the expected coup, putting these individuals at great risk from the fascist militias. Of course, the fingered legislators have vehemently denied the charges because they are not tired of living.
The US will use any conceivable dirty trick to get what they want (such as foment a coup) and then turn around and project their own “misdeeds” (a coup) upon their target (the Russian government). The US government is totally dishonorable and a walking contradiction of all the platitudes they espouse in our constitution and the propaganda they spew forth constantly. I find this particularly outrageous because I was born and raised here being fed their bullshit for 75 years.
And myself, for 65 years. I’ve come to the same conclusion. Growing up on military bases around the world, I remember being treated really well by local populations from Manila to Manchester, from Yokohama to Athens who thought that we as a people were not lying warmongerings POS. In the 90s I used to put a maple leaf on my backpack as ID’ing as an American was pretty much over. Now the Canucks have worn enough U$ brown corporate lipstick that they’ve become a no go too. Now, of course, there is no travel.