Earlier today, in what appears to be a risky game of “double or quits”, the leaders of the Donbass, have decided to go ahead with the referendum scheduled for May 11th. For the second time in 24 hours I am rather surprised as I had expected them to use the opportunity given by Putin’s request to postpone the referendum. Apparently they feel that they have invested too much in terms of time, energy and money to agree to a postponement. Either that, or they feel that even though conditions are bad now, they will only be even worse in the foreseeable future.
What is certain is that the junta warlord in charge of violence – Parubii – had already rejected any notion of stopping the current offensive even before the Donbass leaders had met to discuss their response to Putin’s request. In fact, combat operation have already resumed in Mariupol where unidentified black-clad gunman have attacked the local resistance forces. Needless to say, the OSCE had nothing useful to say about any of it.
As for two official Imperial “spokespersons” Jen Psaki and Anders Fogh Rasmussen – they immediately rejected Putin’s plan for negotiations saying it was not enough and that NATO did not see any change in the Russian force posture. As for “Iats” – he rejected it all as “hot air”. Nothing new on the western front.
It is really hard for me to make sense of the situation in the Ukraine, but with apparently only Russia interested in exploring a negotiated solution and with a highly-polarizing Victory Day celebration coming up tomorrow, a dramatic escalation of violence in the next couple of days appears likely to me.
The Saker
Saker Message:
Salam brother Saker,
These are the moves, until Ukraine becomes a full Federal Country as per Putin’s wishes.
Peace,
Mohamed.
http://rt.com/news/157540-russia-ukraine-crisis-roadmap/
” “It is a helpful step but again there is far more the President Putin and the Russians can do to deescalate the situation and to ensure safe elections,” US State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told journalists on Wednesday evening, without elaborating on which other moves she was expecting from Russia.”
Do they even know themselves? Hurts my brain when reading the western position constantly changing and lying about facts.
Would you quit? I wouldn’t.
Why does the entity known as “South Sudan” get to secede, but the Donbas cannot?
The military vacuum created by the standoff between NATO and Russia gives the people space to do what many world wide are seeking to do (Scotland, Catalonia, etc) which is make borders fit the underlying cultural reality, not the other way around.
Such a world would actually be closer, richer, better governed, and more peaceful; what’s not to like?
Durable countries are forged in blood ans sweat. That’s why Ukraine is a joke – it was assembled by Russians and given to Ukrainians as a gift. Huge mistake.
Maybe Putin understands that in order for Novorossiya to withstand the test of time, it must be the result of a real struggle, and that unfortunately entiles real suffering.
It must obtain its own heroes, its own tales and legends, its own celebrations, and its own identity as anti-Ukraine.
It looks to me that instead of regular troops, Russia has decided to rely on armed volunteers who are flooding the area as we speak, and that Putin is so confident in combat ability of pro-Russian forces, that he sees no need to menace junta with military maneuvres anymore.
Good Day Saker,
”For the second time in 24 hours I am rather surprised as I had expected them to use the opportunity given by Putin’s request to postpone the referendum. Apparently they feel that they have invested too much in terms of time, energy and money to agree to a postponement.”
Events move fast. Difficult to catchup or is it Ketchup? It’s a two-part Referendum.
-Moments ago a foreign policy Tweet News of Donbass: at Zerohedge Crimea Round 2 A Vote on May 18 to become part of Russia
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-08/here-comes-crimea-20-following-referendum-donetsk-will-vote-become-part-russia#comments
Gathered on the square of the self-proclaimed Donetsk Republic, administration representatives announced a “referendum” in two rounds. As the correspondent of URA-Inform.Donbass, the first round of the referendum will be held on May 11.
In the first round resident of Donetsk will be offered to vote for recognition of the Donetsk republic and then on May 18 will be held the second round of the referendum “, where you will be asked to support accession to the Donetsk region of Russia.
Anon Mongoose
One good reason for Putin’s delay message, perhaps not the most important, is that it has taken many of us in western countries (English speaking) some time to understand the single incident in Odessa, or even the original coup in Kiev, because we don’t know or have forgotten the history behind these occurrences, which Europeans and Slavic nations know better.
It’s totally admirable that the latter do their best to put into English descriptions of events flashed to us in other languages – it points to our shame in the US that the study of such languages here has been put on the back burner for so long.
The articles are now coming out from the woodwork, and we are learning as fast as we can. This one I found extremely helpful – I hadn’t understood why the trapped victims at Odessa were being called ‘Colorados’ (living myself in a bordering state). This article fills us in:
http://www.alternet.org/world/ukraine-catastrophe-offers-many-frightening-reminders-nazi-era?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark
The logic of a revolt
http://links.org.au/node/3838
A very good assessment of the revolt in the south east, Putin´s dilemmas and the Junta objectives.
“I don’t know about you – but I am personally unimpressed to say the least about the numbers of men who turned up to fight against the junta. Yes, some did and they are fighting hard but, again, this is not South Ossetia by a long shot. I did see small groups of determined men fighting back, but I did not see large hordes of infuriated miners organizing a mass demonstration or, even less so, attacking the junta’s forces. Did you?”
Maybe they have been sold down the river by Moscow too many times. Putin did say that he would not allow Kiev to massacre civilians, right?
And the US also has apparently spent too much time and money to do stop either. There’s nothing Russia can say or do that won’t be criticized, villified, marginalized and spun. I don’t think any US/NATO mouthpiece has said one truthful thing since this whole fiasco started. Outrageous. If it makes me mad, I can’t even imagine how Russians feel, seriously, it’s a mystery to me how Putin and Lavrov show such patience and calm. Zen masters, skilled actors, or massive amounts of valium? One wonders.
Interview
http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/ukrainecrimea/privatizing-the-ukraine.html
My analysis is that since the Saker and others saw Putins latest manouvre as significant, yet it was hardly brought up at all in Western MSM, I believe the “west” didn’t like the notion of de-escalation and chose to simply ignore it in favour of continued violence.
The “west” seems not to want any negotiated settlement. It wants maybe not aan outright war with Russia but at the very least continued conflict.
Like i said previously and since the US imposed Nazi junta in Kiev have more or less banned V-day celebrations, that day is set to be ruined by the Zionazis, Nudelman, Kagan & Pyatt by ordering their clients to commit even worse atrocities and pogroms than Odessa. I hope by G-d that im wrong. Russia should not take the bait and put boots on the ground but keep flooding the area with Cossack´s and all the equipment necessary and probably also take out Grad rockets and such if it develops in that direction…
Mikhas.
Why are you surprised?
1) Putin is complying with all Western requests to look most reasonable and willing to come to resolution
2) He is showing the Donbass rebels as actual independent actors when they disobey him
3) He is exposing Ukraine hypocrisy in failure to defuse situation
4) He is giving Donbass an opportunity to prove their organization
5) Most Ukraine troops still don’t want to fight people.
To date, all clashes have been on the extreme outskirts of Donetsk Oblast – there are no troops in the heart of Donetsk or Lughansk. By placing forces in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk in a big show, the rebels have distracted Ukraine completely from interfering in the preparation and distribution of the ballots and voting. The recent clashes in Mariupol suggest that Ukraine now realizes its mistake and they are trying to seize the city administrative machinery of a major city. Looks like it is too late for them from the pictures on RT of piles of ballots at the ready.
Saker wrote: “Either that, or they feel that even though conditions are bad now, they will only be even worse in the foreseeable future.”
Here is the fear as described in the non-MSM outlets in the US:
Exclusive to OpEdNews:
OpEdNews Op Eds 5/7/2014 at 11:23:51
Odessa– the First Pogrom– The Obama Genocide
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Odessa–the-First-Pogrom-by-George-Eliason-Activism-Anti-War_Civil-Disobedience_Class-War_Obama-Warmonger-140507-595.html
This comment was divided in 2 in order to be able to post it in its entirety.
(1 of 2)
Saker,
Yesterday I’d started to reply to your ‘quiz post’ re whether Russia crossed into Ukraine militarily or not and what difference it would make in the next 6 months either way. The following 3 paragraphs in quotes were as far as I got on that and had intended to finish today.
“Let me preface my remarks by saying first that I believe the US players have already concluded that it’s their best interests to see to it that the scheduled elections in Ukraine do NOT take place for any number of reasons, not the least of which being that with the choice of even marginally viable candidates being boiled down to two billionaire oligarchs, (one of whom has an already proven record of political corruption at virtually every level), the inevitable result of such a supposedly legitimate election would be a disaster for Ukraine anyway and would ultimately reflect poorly on the US’s meddlesome strategy in the first place. (Better to keep the interloper junta in place and blame Putin for having to cancel the upcoming vote. There are other reasons too I’ll get too a bit further on.)
So, if the Russians do not cross into Ukraine to intervene militarily and the elections do take place, whoever does win is not going to have either the power or the will to disarm or otherwise neutralize the ‘Right Sector’ cult and their gunmen or marginalize the neo-Nazi and xenophobic influence and pathology of the Svoboda sociopaths. And absent the ability of any new government to assert its authority over these groups, meaningful and effective governance in an already turbulent environment will be functionally impossible to accomplish regardless of whatever degree of protest there might be in various regions of the country against the depredations of the ultranationalist agenda currently being aided and abetted by the coup installed junta in Kiev.
This is another reason why the US and it’s NATO military arm and some of its EU allies might prefer to see the elections cancelled. As long as the ‘junta’ government is in place as a ‘temporary’ thing, the existence of Right Sector and militant Svoboda people engaged in violent acts outside the law can be seen, (not entirely legitimately but still a case can be made by cunning propagandists), in the context of ‘dueling groups of violent people all operating outside the law on both sides in a time of lawlessness and transition yadda yadda yadda’. But once a legitimately elected government is in place such extra legal violence must be stopped, and the US knows that it won’t be, not under Tymoshenko or Poroshenko.”
In light of Mr. Putin’s moves today, what I would have gone on to say regarding what the dynamics and imperatives seem to be as I see them playing out between now and, say, November of this year are probably fundamentally the same though perhaps weighted a bit differently.
Putin’s announcement today will make it more difficult for the US to create the excuse they need to call off the scheduled elections and blame the cancellation on Russia directly. They will of course blame Russia anyway if they do cancel the elections, but regardless, whether there are elections or not, whether Russia rolls tanks across the Ukrainian border or not, the US/NATO agenda will remain the same and the only things that will change are the timetables that will measure how quickly the small successes they have play out an how quickly and violently the catastrophes metastasize and implode.
I think it’s a fair statement to say it’s a given that none of the US/NATO or more aggressive EU players in this entire fiasco give a fig about the Ukrainian citizenry, and I see no joy there for that nation, united or not, for the near future thanks to the Neocon meddling of Nuland & Co. practicing their stock in trade of sowing chaos and destruction wherever they can whenever they can.
(2 of 2: Cont. from previous.)
But the US has other more defined imperatives working too at multiple levels, and I believe understanding these, even in general terms, offers a pretty solid conceptual framework out of which to discern what is informing and driving the various strategies and tactics employed by the West.
So, the US has, lets say, 3 major imperatives in the ‘European Theater’, so to speak.
One is to re-invigorate the stature and dynamic relevance of NATO.
Most people who follow NATO/Europe affairs and history to any degree pretty much understand that NATO has long since become primarily the Europe-based militarized arm of US foreign policy. The US has played a dominant role in NATO for a very long time. Many people also understand that with the dissolution of the Soviet Union, NATO itself should have been at that time, if not necessarily disbanded outright, at least re-purposed and reconfigured as, at best, a collective European defense organization with no US or non-European involvement. But this did not happen.
Instead, under putative US ‘leadership’, NATO was employed as an artifact of aggression against Russia as part of the triumphalism of the US over the Soviets and the need to make sure Russia was seen to be a ‘loser’ in a big way, a permanent way. So pushing NATO onto the Baltic States, despite previous promises that no such aggression would be done,was in fact carried out.
The other thing about NATO and why the US is desperate to keep it under their control, is that NATO has served to create and maintain a state of dependency amongst the broader European Community upon US military technology, hardware, financing, and I’d wager a good deal of planning, strategizing, and politicking, much of which allows individual EU member states and ministers off the hook accountability-wise when things go wrong.
Two is that after the end of the so-called ‘Cold War’, it became a fundamental tenet of US foreign policy that no other powers that might rise to challenge the US role in the world as undisputed leader, (hegemon), would be tolerated. This means no regional powers can be allowed to prosper, no matter how benign or unwarlike they might be. China, Russia, Iran, Syria, Brazil. If you do not do what the US demands of you and dare to prosper, the US will bomb you or sic the banking dogs on you to ruin you that way. But guess who else is a regional power? Europe, the EU. Part of NATO’s role is to keep the EU dependent on the US in one way, but that dependency also fosters a tendency to submit to agreeing to along with all sorts of other insane US schemes, (like Ukraine), where the bad consequences will fall far more heavily on EU citizens than they will on the US.
Three is that there are elections in the US in November and while they are only mid-term elections the Republican rightwing is counting on making a strong showing and turmoil in the foreign affairs arena always helps them. But the more important element is that the Neocons are playing for 2016 when they fully intend to regain official dominance and control of the Pentagon and State Department and the White House with a Republican president to do their bidding and a dumb-as tree-stumps congress to vote for as much killing and maiming and bloodletting as they can get away with.
All of the preceding is by way of saying that I believe the primary imperatives of the US/NATO have very little to do with what transpires in Ukraine in the next 6 months or so, or what plays out in Syria or Palestine or with Iran or anywhere else where the Neocons and/or their cousins the idiot R2P, (Responsibility To Protect), so-called ‘humanitarian interventionist fools’ like Kerry and Rice and Power and Obama have left their bloody footprints.
Whether there are elections or not, who will hunt down and disarm Right Sector and its affiliated murderers? Who could step in with sufficient credibility to establish civil order in a just manner?
The western leaders might be brainwashed by political correctness, and thus suffer from magical thinking in many areas, but they are not all retarded.
The level of hate that is on display on both sides on the ground in the Ukraine, has made it obvious that some form of separation is necessary.
Nobody wants another Chernobyl, and especially not when a civil war is going on.
My guess is that this have been communicated to both parties in the Ukraine, so what we see is a final push before they are forced to end it, as the new borders is going to be where they are, when the fighting ends.
I don’t know how long it takes, before Kiev is forced to stop, but I am sure the EU politicians don’t want to go to the EU elections the 25 of Mai, having done nothing to stop the civil war in the Ukraine.
The Electorate don’t want war, and the main stream media have suffered a blow to their public confidence like nothing I have seen before, forcing them to take a more unbiased approach.
So as long as Russia don’t do anything stupid, the politician in the EU will be forced to come out on the offensive soon, by punishing Kiev for more aggression in public.
If one are really cynical, Kiev have been ordered to continue fighting, so the the EU and Obama, can be seen as the one that finally stopped it.
Another thing that I want to mention, is that the conflict in the Ukraine is something different to different parties involved.
The Chinese used it to get cheaper gas. The USA to drive a wedge between Russia and Europe. The EU as a chance to increase their territory.
Russia as a way to take back Crimea.
The “white nationalists***” however, used the conflict to separate themselves from the Nazis, by supporting Russia. A lot of the “Putin-bots”, that surprised the western media so much, by dominating the comment sections, came from them, and not from Russia, as it was finally a subject they could comment on in the main stream media, without being banned for supporting racism and Nazism.
*** I don’t know if one word can cover it, but it is all those that have been banned from polite society, because they don’t want more immigration, and disagree with the current state enforced politically correctness religion.
The US State Dept. has gone into full-on “retard mode.”
Putin has offered an imperfect but face-saving exit to everyone involved.
The Obama administration is on the verge of being a lame duck administration, but I guess that the State Department wants to sacrifice the last two years of the Obama administration for its pals in Kiev.
It is obvious that Putin expected Donetsk to refuse his offer of postponing the referendum. By making that offer Putin wanted to appear as he is having no or little control over the federalist movement. Thus he can’t be accused of pushing them to separate.
Putin prefers to let the situation rot as it is obvious that the Ukrainian coup-government’s repressive and uncompromising attitude will generate increased antagonism, radicalisation and hatred. It can never hope to unite Ukraine anymore. Both of the presidential candidates are not popular in the East. Time is playing in favor of the federalists and Russia. It may take months until the situation clears up.
In terms of going from bad to worse, the IMF has handed over the first tranch (~ $2 billion) of the $17 billion loan. In return, the regime is going to have to raise taxes, reduce subsidies for fuel etc and sell assets at knock-down prices. In a very short time, the effect on the ordinary people will be evident to them. They will then realize the full horrors of being ‘saved’ by the IMF.
Looking at the tactics unfolding is worrisome. The mendacity of the Anglo-Zionists is breathtaking. Ukraine is the battlefield for a much larger “game”. The west fomented events in the Maidan and installed their puppet oligarchs. Then Crimeans vote to re-attach to Russia. Then the US sends a warship into the Black Sea. Not-for-nothing did Putin send a lone MIG to disable that ships radar system and simulate attack manuovers — 12 bloody times. The message was pretty clear that a conventional war would not be a cakewalk for ZATO. Then the Eastern protestors capture German OSCE observers. Putin had them returned unharmed. Then the ZATO-backed-putsch ups-the-ante with the murders in Odessa. (Will NEVER get those horrific images out of mind…) Then Putin seems to “ratchet-back-down” and offers his gambit — and simultaneously fires off first and second strike ICBMs. WOW. Just WOW. And the idiots at US-State trot out the hashtag-princess to offer another whiney-azz spiel.
THIS is the best America can do??? Jen Psaki? Vicky Noodles? REALLY??? They aren’t COMPETENT to deal with Russia on life and death issues. I don’t care which side your on. Just open your eyes and SEE what these bloody idiots are doing — worldwide. They have lit the match (and made payroll) that sent the vile-est and most evil murderers to kill innocent women, men and children in Odessa. It’s beyond shameful that America is manipulating and enabling these events. Then hands-off responsibility to the MOST incompetent fools ever to walk the marble hall at DOS. God save us all.
AGS
I swear to god NATO tanks could be at the gates of Moscow and the likes of Psaki and Fogh Off Rasmussen would be saying “Russia must de-escalate”, “Russia must pull back its forces”.
Anyway, apart from the fact that he probably eats too much of his own product, Porochenko doesn’t seem a bad candidate for President, certainly in terms of assuaging the fears of ethnic Russians about the neo-Nazis in Kiev. He’s said NATO membership is off the agenda because it would “damage the country” and he has links to both the Party of Regions & the previous Yanukovich govt. I don’t know enough about him though tbh, wondering what Saker and others think.
Espina said
Victory Day tomorrow 09/05/14, Moscow then Crimea for Vladimir Putin, hefty amount of military jets arrived in Crimea these past few days, according to reports,i wonder if they’ll be staying there or returning whence they came. Referendum going ahead on sunday 11/05/14 despite Putins appeal to postpone, Kiev predictably spurned his offer anyway, quelle surprise. I have a feeling that the fascists are going to launch an attack in the south and east first thing on sunday morning, grad rockets South Ossettia style, ie major overkill to prevent the people there from
voting. It will all kick off then i believe.
If a referendum is good enough for my country, Scotland,it’s good enough for Novorossiya!
Noticing the MSM have totally reduced their Ukraine coverage, calm before their lying blitz over the next few days.
Question….Can Vladimir Putin fly/pilot a fighter jet ? I keep getting a picture in my minds eye.
Espina Scotland
This not about Ukraine. There is no need for face saving for the US.
The Russians just tested the US to confirm their intentions. Now that the Russians have made their sanity check they know which of the options that their analysts and planners have been working through can be shifted from the table.
Maybe moves to get Europe on-side will continue, that is probably going to be a talking point when the Russians and Chinese have their meeting. The policy will be set and from here on out the US will be treated as the enemy.
Where I live, I can see when Rasmussen pops up to visit with the president on his visit. I hope that I do not see too many similar visits over the coming days and weeks.
This not about Ukraine. There is no need for face saving for the US.
The Russians just tested the US to confirm their intentions. Now that the Russians have made their sanity check they know which of the options that their analysts and planners have been working through can be shifted from the table.
Maybe moves to get Europe on-side will continue, that is probably going to be a talking point when the Russians and Chinese have their meeting. The policy will be set and from here on out the US will be treated as the enemy.
Where I live, I can see when Rasmussen pops up to visit with the president on his visit. I hope that I do not see too many similar visits over the coming days and weeks.
If Putin was wise to advise canceling any referendums, then it would surely be wise for everyone to stay home on May 9. The neofascists to mourn their defeat and the rest to avoid falling into the trap. Besides, the truth of course is that it was the Communists, not just the Russians, who beat the Nazis. And it was the Russian Federation which obliterated Leningrad and Stalingrad, something Hitler couldn’t.
I agree with Saker’s point. However it is based on “Putin has a control over Donbass leaders” idea.
I think in addition to other meanings and plans behind Putin’s yesterday statements (even if he really would have a control over Southeast forces), he clearly demonstrates to US and EU – I do everything I can (including recent release of military experts and exchange of captives), and now, i ask them to postpone the referendum and go ahead and elect the president, so, stop blaming me for “not obeying the Geneva agreement”.
He knew exactly that the referendum would NOT be postponed.
But i also thought he was giving some respite for Donbass forces. I thought they would wait for at least two days before giving any response to keep temporary piece, and then they go ahead and do referendum anyway. They responded too fast, i think from tactical standpoint.
My daughter right now is traveling from Makeevka (satellite of Donetsk) back to Kharkiv, home (i am in US though, so, imagine what i am feeling). She didn’t meet a one person in Makeevka who will say “no” to independence on the referendum. I have friend of mine in Simferopol – he told me the same before Crimea referendum. So, i think Putin is confident in the referendum as a fact is going to happen, and its results.
i think Russia still is showing force for sure.
http://rt.com/news/157644-putin-drills-rocket-launch/
What a perfect timing for this excercise don’t you agree?
This comment has been removed by the author.
One more thing, that nobody has mentioned.
NATO is going to Africa to counter the Chinese, so they need European soldiers as boots on the ground. The 200 kidnapped Nigerian schoolgirls, has been in every media outlet in the west I have seen, and there have also been articles on how the west have a duty to go there to enforce order. (No articles though, on how Europe needs to protect Western investments and gas/oil pipelines, and how the Chinese are the West’s fiercest competitors.)
What better way to get European NATO countries to loyally follow NATO HQ’s lead, and send soldiers and accept the inevitable losses, than to make both the politicians and the electorate scared of Russia?
I also want to mention that the IMF is made up of academics that believe in their theories, and not oligarchs.
That the corrupt oligarchs in the broke countries blame the IMF for everything bad, in order to stay in power, doesn’t mean that IMF help needs to end badly.
I know some IMF people, and the biggest problems as I see it, is that they believe too much in economics as a science, and not that they are corrupt, and wants to enslave or plunder people.
The results of Putin’s public relations efforts are already evident here and there. For instance, the editor of the Presse in Austria, rabidly pro-Nato so far, has published an article redolent with frustration and irritation at the foolish intransigence of the Kiev regime. While he’s far from admitting the criminal nature of their actions, at least it’s no longer unquestioning support.
In the rival daily “Standard” they report that some of the 11 billion the EU is giving to Kiev are handed straight to Russia in payment for gas, prompting a lot of angry questions why the EU would give any of our scarce cash to Kiev for that.
Apparently the Kiev regime bought gold with the first part of the IMF money, to replace the 33 tons stolen by the US. What’s up with that? Why gold when they cannot even feed their goons?
The German paper Stern has published an excellent guest commentary exhorting the Europeans to stop being fooled and victimised by the Americans.
That said, there’s still a lot of nasty anti-Russian propaganda, but I have the impression that their heart is not in it as much as before.
BTW, I found this link in a Kiev paper, containing serious allegations against Timoshenko having conspired with Yanukovich.
http://www.unian.info/politics/912208-after-publication-of-documents-from-mezhihirya-it-will-be-difficult-for-timoshenko-to-prove-her-commitment-to-democracy-experts.html
Even if it more propaganda and forgeries, it would indicate that the Kiev vultures are starting to turn on each other, good news in its way.
All in all, I’m a little more hopeful that sanity may yet prevail to prevent a larger conflagration spilling outside the Ukraine. My personal worry is another Chernobyl or worse from the Ukranian nuclear plants. Austria already got a heavy dose of radiation the last time – some mushrooms I could eat in my childhood are still too radioactive to eat today.
Looking at it from the perspective of the separatists, the leaders are thinking that they can call off the vote, leave the government buildings, tear down the barricades and go home but that is not the end of it. Will they not be scooped off the street and disappear? Will they receive a knock on the door in the middle of the night? They have a better chance of staying alive if they go forward with the referendum.
Another Norwegian said, “The “white nationalists***” however, used the conflict to separate themselves from the Nazis, by supporting Russia.”
This is an almost-banned, critically relevant and most timely distinction to which I add…apparently OT but it’s not because Victory Day is tomorrow 09/05/14
…only after the Russian church kneels to the Pope—currently a determined anti-Catholic—can the Russian people face the truth of their Great Patriotic War, that the greatest Russian patriots fought with the Germans against the satanised violators of their people, that the satanists murdered more Russian soldiers than the Germans killed. In Prussian Nights and Gulag, Solzhenitsyn recorded how Russia’s best faced the beast unto death.
The Donbass leadership has made the correct decision for themselves. This is a good sign of their commitment and clear thinking.
Putin benefits because it proves he doesn’t have total control of the anti-fascist forces.
The Western media appears to have bought it. All good all around.
Saker,
The Russians are rational people making rational decisions based on the facts the problem is that they are dealing with irrational people making decisions based on lies and deception.The outcome of such two opposing thought processes is disharmony and chaos.
The schedule was as follows.
Firstly the junta said that not only the referendum would be irrelevant as they would pay no attention to it but also that the operation in the east would go ahead.
Then after the above the people’s councils’ representatives confirmed the referenda will take place.
Are they attacking Odessa again?
Can anyone verify that Odessa is at risk of being attacked again?
comment on :http://www.opednews.com/articles/3/Odessa–the-First-Pogrom-by-George-Eliason-Activism-Anti-War_Civil-Disobedience_Class-War_Obama-Warmonger-140507-595.html#13994882731471&action=collapse_widget&id=387799
“
Almost all universities, schools, colleges and vocational schools in Odessa are closed as of tomorrow. It has been ordered from above to completely vacate student residences in universities by the 8 May and let nobody move in before 12 May.
Also reliable sources report that hospitals are vacating the whole floors of wards in hospitals as they have been ordered to get them ready to receive casualties. It is all set for the moment, although “H-hour” has not been specified yet.
EVERYONE PLEASE REPOST IT, the information is verified and proved by relatives, friends and acquaintances who study, work and live there. Tell everyone that a wholesale slaughter is going to be conducted in Odessa!
Watch out …
4.
Unexpected details of Odessa massacre: people with red armbands next to “Metalist” fans near Sobornaya Square.
Unexpected details of the tragic events in Odessa on 2 May come to the fore. One of Facebook users, Nicholay Oleynik, posted some photos, in which we can clearly see people with red armbands walking next to a “Metalist” fan (yellow and blue scarf). One of them is wearing a St. George ribbon. A man in a helmet decorated in Ukrainian flag colors is taking photos of the line of people.
This photo was taken before the tragic events; the people are heading from Sobornaya Square towards shopping mall Afina. The combination of the symbols is very strange. Remember, people with red armbands engaged fire on the football fans procession and fled the scene.
This is further proof that all the events are work of visitant provocateurs who deliberately worked to destabilize situation in peaceful Odessa and pit the opposing parties against each other. “
@Stephen J
Very interesting comments on why the West might want May 25th elections cancelled. I hadn’t thought of this possibility before I read your post.
It puts the thought in my head that the Ziocons have firm control of Right Sektor thugs and no one else. That makes sense. Control of the Junta is much more widely dispersed — amongst those who prefer asset stripping to war. Putin is exploiting this division.
I think the USA wants a full blooded war with Russia and are not going to stop until they get it.
They are insane
Stand off.Ukraine military versus unarmed pro Russian civilians.
crazy stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMvhQRPYPEA
There is an excellent piece over at The National Interest about how the West has confused the internal divide in Ukraine with Russian interference.
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/six-mistakes-the-west-has-made-continues-make-ukraine-10397
Basically, fuck this shit. Novorossiya is the revolution. We can fight it out on the streets in every city, every country and knock these motherfuckers on their asses. All we need is the internet and a weapon for each man, woman and child . . . then we can move on to implement a process of direct democracy to facilitate anarchist and communist ideals.
May 9 Victory Day
I’ve been reading too many blogs and the comments there in the last few days, so I cannot remember where I saw a comment which stuck in my mind.
If it was here – Hat-Tip to the writer!
The writer pointed out that it is easy for non-Russians to not get the nuanced in what Putin said. He did not /command’ the Donetsk region not to have a referendum – he said something along the lines that it might perhaps be better to postpone it. So – not a ‘do as I tell’.
However, he did tell the Kiev regime to stop their military attacks,which they didn’t do.
The other interesting point this writer made was this: Putin send condolences to the families of the Odessa victims., but did not, as is customary between government heads, send a condolence to the Kiev regime.
I think these nuances help understand what is going on – and that Putin has by no means abandoned the Russian in the Ukraine.
Also keep in mind that the Europe-wide elections for the EU Parliament are taking place between the 22nd and 25th of May. The feelings amongst the peoples of Europe are running high: they are disgusted with the EU and their own governments. It looks as if there will be a great many new MEPs who are fierce opponents of Brussels – and who will make trouble for politicians who have dragged us all into this situation.
I am sure Putin knows about these elections as well, and about the opinion of the people who are totally opposed to their current politicians.
The Funeral
When I saw the joyful marriage of the Crimea and Russia I had the felling that the next occasion would be a funeral. Moving borders is a double edged sword. Now after that brilliant move it would endanger the bounty with a uncertain follow-up repeating similar tactics without the surprise.
Point is that Russia can not win against Nato and this is the bigger picture. Germany won almost all battles in the first years of WWII but in strategy one must learn not to give importance to any other than the LAST battle.
The US empires power is fading and in that situation it has all interest to provoke a war with Russia. Others have tried before but failed to understand the strength and weakness of Russia. Russians can take much in suffering they usually let the enemy deep into their own territory before striking back with furry that one can’t find in other nations.
Q
To 16:54,
You are correct in saying Europe is also a regional power. One thing that people have overlook, US is trying to both undermine Europe’s growth as well as Russia.
I have family members in Europe and N.America. We send money to family in Latin America. In the past the money was send in US dollar but the last couple of years we have been sending money in Euro. I remember when I was last in S. America, visiting, I was surprise and how difficult it was to exchange dollars compare to Euro. The prefer exchange was Euro.
Now if you look at the report below, global immigrants send about $500 Billion back home. What happens if everyone in Europe sends Euro instead of dollars.
That hurts the dollar.
So, making the Euro undesirable, or weak … US is trying not only to control Russia but also undermine Europe’s economic growth.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-17/global-immigrants-send-500-billion-back-home.html
Alex, I’d expect that, of the people who actually fill out a form, the majority would favour independence. Unlike Crimea though the chance of this being a representative vote is very small – at least in the current circumstances.
One other point, because the old saying that ‘birds of a feather flock together’ has more than a little truth to it I’d be wary of giving too much weight to the testimony of a single observer reporting upon the opinions of their peers. It is kinda like me saying that ‘everyone speaks English’ in the country where I am now staying. The statement is true only for those people I know and as one who is not fluent in the languages where I live ALL the people I know speak at least some English, if they didn’t we would not know each other. ;)
O Lord, save Thy people,
and bless Thine inheritance!
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians
over their adversaries,
and by virtue of Thy cross,
preserve Thy habitation.”
The arrogance of the self-appointed “government” of Ukraine is nothing short of amazing. They must have real faith in their yankee paymasters. The current situation looks truly lamentable, and I can only hope for the wisdom of Putin’s gambit.
The USAians, having lost control of their ecoomy and foreign policy, are trying to regain it.
But it looks like Putin’s out matched them.
RT:
Russian Foreign Ministry says that Kiev’s reaction to the roadmap proposed by OSCE and Moscow bluntly contradicts the agreement reached in Geneva.
“Such a position is in direct conflict with the fundamental principle of the Geneva Declaration, which begins with the requirements of the termination of any use of force,” the ministry said.
Furthermore Kiev’s “unwillingness to listen to the international community” is undermining the efforts of the OSCE, because it is unlikely protesters in the south-east of Ukraine will “cooperate with the regime which declared them all terrorists and sent an army against them,” the statement reads.
Afterthought:
Such a world would actually be closer, richer, better governed, and more peaceful; what’s not to like?
No room for military adventurism, of course.
And he has made, out of one, every family of man: to live upon the face of the entire earth, determining the appointed seasons and the limits of their habitation (Acts 17.26)
Another Norwegian @18:04,
If the IMF is in fact technocratic, why, after having taken a public position in January 2013 that austerity policy is harmful to vulnerable, faltering developed economies, are they continuing to push canned “structural adjustment” policy on even more vulnerable, faltering developing economies? However deftly they may fiddle numbers and come to conclusions, they still implement an agenda proven to degrade social outcomes, which suggests their objectives are other than what they say they are.
With no comment on the content of either, it is the taboo area alluded to by Another Norwegian and expanded on Michael McDonnell @18:31 that is key to understanding the intractable nature of the Anglo-US-NATO confrontation with a non-compliant Russia; viz the – by now – near dominant influence of occult Judaism on politics in the west. 100 years ago it was largely nascent; in the inter-war years it moved from emergent to determining and in the 70 odd years following it’s crushing victory (yes – in spite of that oh-so-deceptive narrative of The Holocaust) it has become rampant-dominant.
Putin is probably more aware of this reality than the pathetic mouthpiece politicians of the west who clearly understand the power and requirements of their hidden puppet-masters; but his room for maneuver against its interests is hamstrung by the universal necessity that WWII be understood as ‘The Good War’ (transliterated by Russia as ‘the Great Patriotic War’) and, (in the West) ‘The Holocaust’ as it’s defining evil. Both confirm Adolf Hitler and Nazism as evil incarnate, whereas Hitler really was no worse or better than the three-stooges (Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt).
It is educational to ponder why it has been illegal to say such things in much of western Europe these past 20-30 years, and has now become illegal to do so in Putin’s Russia too. Both are hamstrung by a narrative that is both false and in service to the real threat, which remains unmentionable in both camps.
I am no apologist for the Nazis but I am very much afraid that incessant Nazi-Hitler comparisons by both sides to justify their positions (the Kiev Junta by Russophones and Putin by the western establishment and its comatose ‘progressive left-liberals) as Nazi/Hitler is probably THE biggest obstacle to any kind of resolution short of World War III. I can offer no solution to the paradox either, beyond trying to provide information about it in a reasonable and intelligent fashion, rather than watch both sides yelling “Jew-hating-Holocaust-denying-neo-Nazi” at each other.
Until the real history of the 20th century can be openly and honestly researched, debated and discussed in polite company and in academia without destroying one’s career and livelihood, there is no prospect whatsoever of the relentless march to WWIII being halted – IMHO
@ Jonathan
IIRC, there are no interest on loans denominated in SDRs, and it’s new money, that did not exist before they are transferring to the Ukraine.
I hope we all agree that there is nothing wrong with “structural adjustment” in itself, it is how much and how fast it should be implemented, that needs to be discussed.
There are for instance far better ways to help poor people, than subsidizing energy, as this subsidy goes to the rich as well.
As for Greece, the level of waste in the public sector, is not something the German taxpayer is supposed to pay for, so something needed to be done. I don’t think selling off public property is the answer though, and I think it should have been solved by kicking Greece out of the Euro.
The problem with this solution, was that it would be N-European pension funds for normal workers, that would have lost their money.
Off topic: Vitaly Naumkin is arguing a somewhat similar point to the one you made several weeks ago on Russia and Muslims:
“Russia has not been hit by the virus of Islamophobia because this multinational and multireligious country has for centuries served as an impressive example of coexistence, mutual cultural enrichment and respect of many ethnic and religious groups, first of all Christians and Muslims, in one social organism. … One would think that proponents of the Eurasian choice would seek to build bridges between Russia and the Islamic world … The inter-civilizational dialogue is undoubtedly an important tool for preventing the hostility of ethnic and confessional groups, nations and states, caused by this crisis in the era of hyper-globalization, from developing into bloody wars.”
http://eng.globalaffairs.ru/number/Civilizations-and-Identity-Crisis-16508
The view that war may be imminent is predicated on the notion that war is not extant.
However the war is not new, the “cold war” never ended or was even cold, but has slightly mutated form.
Mr. Wikispooks @ 09 May, 2014 06:14
Oh boy, that’s a can of the world’s hairiest worms. I like the way you handled them :-)
Don’t want Saker to get a visit from the Thought Police.
Erebus
Great analysis of current situation in the Ukraine. Saker knows his stuff, should work for the pentagon and save the morons the billions they wasted on their massive fuck up. No one did their demographics. A trillion dollar defense industry and no one thought of finding out what the Russian speakers in the Ukraine thought, or how they would react to the nazi take over of Kiev. Stupid is dangerous! Seems like, even money can’t buy smarts. The Russians know they are dealing with people suffering from cerebral vacuity, and are trying to prevent a disaster. Lord help them! The Russians…… I mean.