Well, turns out that the LNR and DNR do not consider Crimea has part of the Ukraine after all. My friend Alexander Mercouris explains it all on Russia Insider. Alexander, in his kindness, calls it all a “misrepresentation”. Well, I won’t be as kind and I will call it yet another c*********k for which, again, heads should roll. Figuratively of course.
But still. How in the world did these guys not realize that their sloppy “amendments” would be immediately picked up by BOTH the AngloZionists AND the “hurray patriots” is beyond me. The AngloZionists could now say that “even the Donbass terrorists” consider the Crimea as Ukrainian while the “hurray patriots” that “Putin and Surkov are selling out even Crimea!”.
Now, I am really not a Stalinist, but there is one aspect of Stalin’s policies which I dearly miss: under Stalin you were responsible for your actions. Sometimes even with your life. In wartime, by the way, this makes sense. Because in times of war screw-ups like this one end up costing people’s lives. The Novorussians are at war. And if I don’t really want anybody shot over this, I sure would want some “heads to roll” in a purely administrative sense.
I am still unsure as to whether the folks in the DNR had anything to do with this or not. Either way, they don’t have the horrible track record of the LNR officials for whom this latest debacle is just that – the latest one in a long series of fiascos. There are more and more signs that the LNR authorities are mostly part of the problem and not part of the solution. Something is very rotten in the LNR and will stay so until somebody somehow finds a way to get competent leaders in charge.
The Saker
Off topic:
Does anyone have any information on this? Military vehicles on Hungarian Ukrainian Border (US?)
Col Cassad describes it as a convoy leaving Ukraine, heading back into Hungary.
Could be they left some “Hurricane” rockets for the Ukies. Could be nothing.
Most other sources’ descriptions have it a convoy coming to Ukraine. They seem to be wrong since they are third or fourth hand sources and Cassad has ways to check things more thoroughly. He is military-linked. He is the authority. Everyone else is in their mother’s basement ranting on their chrome book or Android.
In any case, it’s a lot to do about nothing.
Always check reliable sources, not the bozos who cry out about everything that moves.
Know this: the Russian military is on the scene and if new weapons are being brought into the conflict, the Voentorg will ramp up nullifying weapons for the militia to use. The Donbass will not be defeated. It is that simple.
Last time they have claimed that Hungary was selling T-72s to Ukrainie, but later it was commented – even at Saker’s site – that these tanks were heading to Iraq.
Now we have some random photo and unsupported claims. Maybe, it is border with Romania, Poland or Moldova…
T2015 on June 11, 2015 · at 11:00 am UTC
Interesting news tidbit, already posted but here with the confirmation of the hungarian defense ministry:
http://www.gegenfrage.com/furchtloser-beschuetzer-us-militaerkonvoi-faehrt-die-ukraine-ein/
“Wie das ungarische Magazin Kárpát Hírek meldet, hat ein US-Militärkonvoi am Dienstagnachmittag den Grenzübergang Tschop von Ungarn in die Ukraine passiert. Ungarns Verteidigungsministerium bestätigte die Nachricht.”
“As the hungarian magazine Karpat Hirek reports, a US military convoy crossed the border in Chop from Hungary to Ukraine on tuesday afternoon. The hungarian defense ministry confirmed the information.”
Is the source material reliable? That is, how do we know that this isn’t the result of false information being peddled? You can I both know Western intelligence agencies are going to be working overtime on crap like this. It’s very cheap to do, both in terms of cash and risk.
Have your rant.
So they are not experienced politicians they need someone to support them in the negotiations.Lessons will be learned.
Perhaps you need to learn to. As it is the people that supposedly support them that have reacted harshly to this and giving the issue more legs than it deserves. My rant is over
Who cares – it’s a non-issue. Idiots will be idiots and haters will be haters. To say they recognize Crimea as part of Ukraine when their task was to suggest amendments to the Ukrainian Constitution to give LPR/DPR autonomy is just asinine. I am sure if there task had been to rewrite the Ukrainian Constitution to their pleasure other changes would have been made as well (e.g., banning oligarchs). So maybe now some idiot will claim they support oligarchs because they did not ban them in their revision? It would be equally idiotic.
Thanks,
good to know there are still some sober readers of this blog.
The DNR and LNR officials made proposals how to change the valid Ukrainian constitution regarding their (republics´) status.
The valid wording of constitutions is a matter of Verkhovna rada, not of Kremlin or Donetsk militias.
And by the way: Crimea which gained its independence for free and with zero victims does not care of Novorossia. Indeed it ows to it something, because the thousands dead people also keep dying because of Crimea. Why should the Novorossians care about Crimean status or about the opinion of Moscow at all?
They raised up with weapons because hoping of the same treatment and outcome as for Crimea, they were encouraged by promises of Putin that Russia will punish anyone who dares to kill civilians!
saker rant: Rant on, dear Saker, rant on. Yes, something is a bit “off” about the LNR. The DNR has been becoming more organized, professional and competent in their presentation and actions. These guys to the North appear to be the weak link.
an anniversary to be noted–odious in its own way and no heads rolled on this either:
http://www.unz.com/article/the-uss-liberty-must-not-be-forgotten/
“The Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) and the Luhansk People’s Republic (LPR) certainly consider Crimea part of Russia. Moreover, our republics would also like ideally to become part of the Russian Federation” – joint statement from Denis Pushilin and Vladislav Deinego, 10 June 2015
As I remarked over at the Mercouris article, the episode did serve to show how many people here are pathetically weak in their trust of Russia’s handling of this life and death issue. As if they’ve learned nothing from coming here. Among the fair weather friends and hurray patriots it was hard to sift out the reasonable and sane comments.
As for the trolls, well, these threads get taken over by trolls sometimes. The Saker site is definitely a target lately, and a lot of it is somewhat reasonable in tone, with the poison in the content. I like this distributed moderation, but maybe it’s time to create some tighter guidelines to give mods reinforcement to delete and ban? Guidelines based on actual positions taken in the comment – i.e. suggesting that Putin is a coward, Russia is stupid, has wasted the last 15 years – all that junk we see written here. Yes, I know, it’s censorship based on position…
I think it was bot tak who taught us to scan to the final sentence to find the sting in the tail, and sure enough, no matter how subtle this trolling gets, you can find many of the negative takeaways there, intended to depress us all.
I agree. May call it censorship, but it does take away from the reason we are here. For me, I used to read all the Comments on RT and learned a lot. However, anymore it’s a waste of time due to all the trolls which is their agenda. I just don’t waste my time reading them any more. Too bad. But the same thing can happen here as it just wastes our time to start reading a comment and finally see them for what they are.
yes, there’s one or two on this thread now.
Yes Grieved…I’ve learned alot from Bot Tak…he’s great !
‘I’ve learned alot from Bot Tak’
:)
And you are that same Ann that recently on this blog expressed willingness to become a member of Ramzan Kadyrov’s harem, oui :?
Knowing Ann, I think she was kidding. We all learn a lot from Bot Tak.
You can’t be serious…
Ablsolutely. You described it well. Trolling is getting sophisticated. The comments are vague and calm in tone, but the message is poisonous. Enough to corrupt the minds of even the seasoned veterans of his site. Often Daniel Rich’s posts give me this uneasy, unclean feeling, although on the surface there is nothing you could criticise. There are many more posts like this. I am glad you picked it up too. I thought I was going a little crazy.
“I thought I was going a little crazy”
Well, if a full-blown paranoia to you is just “a little”…
I must register my great concern with what seems to be a trend developing, at best simply rash or ill-considered, but at worst something more pernicious. There must be great care taken by those who consider themselves allies, to support not harm the political operations or objectives of the DPR-LPR.
Perhaps, in time, Novorossiya can itself respond by monitoring, correcting or denouncing as necessary but clearly scare resources are presently needed elsewhere. So as allies, we must ourselves take care not to inadvertently damage or sabotage.
Here are two recent examples of what I refer to above.
http://russia-insider.com/en/mozgovoy-novorossiya/ri7820
http://links.org.au/node/4454
Please take care…
Defend Novorossiya!
In Solidarity and Resistance
John Gilberts
I am very surprised by your reaction Saker!!
You expect the people of the Donbass while negotiating for the terms of their bondage demand that the freedom of Crimea be first legitimized? So while Russia advocate the unity of Donbass with Ukraine, the Donbass should fight to legitimize Russian ownership of Crimea? Should the people of the Donbass be shelled so the people of Crimea wouldn’t be denied Apple products?!!!
Let me tell you an old Arab proverb that is very apt in this situation: “The Owner of this House is its Defender” (source). Crimea is being defended by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, including its nuclear strike force.
The welfare of the Donbass is the only responsibility of the people of the Donbass.
SAN DIEGO, June 10 (UPI) — Would you be in favor of launching a preemptive nuclear strike against Russia to ensure the United States maintains military superiority over the rest of the world?
That was the question posed in a petition recently by author and journalist Mark Dice, as an experiment, to beach-goers in San Diego.
The results? Most signed it.
“Obama zombies support NUKING RUSSIA to keep America the world’s top superpower!” journalist and author Mark Dice tweeted Monday.
Dice conducted the phony petition last week to get a sample of Americans’ attitudes about current tensions between Russia and Western allies — and to see how far they would go in supporting the present U.S. administration.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/06/10/Activist-disturbed-by-citizens-willing-to-sign-fake-nuke-Russia-petition/2111433979328/
I really don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Basically, that document states that LNR wants to be part of Ukraine JUST LIKE CRIMEA! For Pete’s sake, everybody and their grandmother knows that Crimea is not going back to the Ukraine.
If I was Poroshenko, I’d be pissed at LNR leadership for being cynical.
“Something is very rotten in the LNR…”
Several heads have already rolled. Unfortunately, they were the good guys.
The conclusions one can come to from what one reads is that it’s a battleground between various factions (aka: petty mafias). The war shattered the preexisting criminal hierarchy, and a new mafia status quo is in the making.
But what is the cause? Why can’t the Kremlin get things straightened out? It has had enough time by now. Do they see the “problem” as those who are trying to make things better? For that matter, do we really have any idea what the management structure is? There is a lot of talk about different people, such as Surkov or Akhmetov, but much of that seems to be from those who want an invasion ASAP.
so Saker, can you name names ? Perhaps write an article backing up your feelings. ?
another later article from Alexander http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/dpr-and-lpr-confirm-what-we-said-they-did-not-recognise-crimea-ukrainian/ri7897
“Poroshenko discussed at a meeting with Samantha Power, a representative of the United Nations need to respect the agreements Minsk and peaceful settlement of the question in the Donbas. Expecting support from the UN Security Council, the President of Ukraine wishes to establish total control over the Russian-Ukrainian border, as well as the termination of hostilities.
Poroshenko also noted the need to open a UN office in Kiev. He stressed that it will be very helpful with the assistance of the OSCE mission in Ukraine. Among other things, the president hinted that the imminent entry of Ukraine in the UN. ”
Hmm-Poro using SP to reinforce his enfeebled position?????
ann-news google translate then says
“This situation has been ignored to date, namely those issues on whose orders the army to attack the self-proclaimed republic of Ukraine.”
http://www.anna-news.info/node/36170
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Saaka.
“The newly appointed head of the Odesa region Mikhail Saakashvili on Monday evening arranged an open meeting for representatives of the media and community members. During the meeting, he shared his plans to work as the head of the regional administration. Also at the meeting it was voiced by a number of promises to improve the situation in the region. Here’s a list of the main theses of the newly created chapter Odessa region:
1 “People will be relieved of bureaucracy, and we – are open to investors”
2 “In the past the government has been the chief of the people, and now the authorities will run and serve. Our rulers – the people. The public – my one arm.”
3 “We will not tolerate bribery. RSA will anticorruption headquarters.”
4 “in the Odessa area has already earned a hotline to fight corruption – we will hunt for big fish and demanding the prosecution of the reaction.”
5 “I have no time to meet with the rich and the interest groups, I want to meet people, to the people.”
6 “I have received a mandate from the President to put an end to all this. By the end of the summer, police will work differently. I guarantee. We want tourists, not tanks.”
7 “In Odessa potential greater than that of Batumi. We have to be 25 times richer.”
8 “Within six months, the new center will work where you can be for one day to obtain a passport or to formalize the right to property.”
9 “We will repair the road Odesa-Reni, and then Odessa-Kiev”.
Promises definitely loud, but given the sad experience of Saakashvili in Georgia, the inhabitants of Odessa can only sympathize.”
http://www.anna-news.info/node/36169
google translate
note repair of the Odessa-kiev Road…..practically and symbolically? Easy access for Right Sector? something about revamped s-300 missiles on Ukr-Trans border in news…….
“According to media reports Ukraine throws air defenses on the Transnistrian border. This is the S-300, which will soon occupy positions in Bolgrad district of Odessa region. The decision of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine has already been made. Hosted complexes underwent repairs and modernization.
Thus, given the political preferences of the Ukrainian government and its current president, the situation around Transnistria steadily moves into a phase of preparation for the armed provocation. As previously indicated, are Minsk agreement for the United States no more than the operational pause and a further reason for the new charges management of the Russian Federation.”
http://www.anna-news.info/node/36185
google translate
=======================
BTW-4 killed Gorlovka overnight, 3 children seriously injured, baby in coma……Vanya has ben released from hospital, good progress………
=======================
What a feelgood introduction to the slave population. No problems here except the same old, same old, which we will be tackling immediately (also same old, same old).
And here we thought Odessa’s problem was living under the heel of violent Nazi oppression. Silly us!
No way, Saker. How could any sane person think it would be a good idea if LPR or DNR should do a comprehensive revision of the Ukrainian ‘police state’ constitution?
The task is to propose amendments to things in the Ukrainian Constitution which will clash with the breakaway republics’ position on what “special status” for them will look like.
That is sufficient work to keep them busy; it’s a waste of time and perhaps counter-productive to write a model constitution for Ukraine that describes a place anyone could bear to live, let alone a place that qualifies for EU membership.
After reconstruction they can start on the knotty problem of how to say “daffodil” without the press reporting you said “subterranean.” Nobody’s solved that yet.
The main thing is to keep the army.
@Cassandra
And the banks.
Seeing the super mess up at the nuclear talks about Iran where leaders around the world have been intimately hacked by new and more advanced hacking systems than ever seen before have echoes of this mess up. Both situations are chronic. Both involve information systems that fluxuate and can start the swift downfall of the US the only way that matters, informational. There are echoes of Stuzxet in both, the hacking system the US, through ambasador Mrs. William Clinton demanded from Israeli scientists to hack the Iranian atomic centrifuges. She publicly thanked Benjamin Netanyahu for the delivery of this system, praising him and expects him to deliver the finalising US Presidential votes to her US Presidency just confirmed during the Bilderberg Group meetings. So, this global new hack is more than timely. Looks like the LNR has been US Pentagon chosen to carry the US/NAZI torch to destabalise the two breakaway Ukrainian Russian republics by way of weapons of mass info-war destruction..The Saker has already illuminated the steps the US is taking to genocidally remove the Kerlian nation’s remenents and history as the means to erase Russian identity over the next two-three hundred years are exquisitely carefully studied and implemented. The only way to stop these extinction plans is to expose them over and over. Expose the gross insanity as in process of being enacted. Plans can be changed of the world knows what they are. Extinction cannot.
Say what?
The LNR is working for..the Pentagon?
This misunderstanding is growing like topsy.
Links please.
Re Argentinia still claiming Falkand Islands, confrontation at G7
“But in response, Mr Cameron argued Argentina needed to respect the overwhelming will of the population to remain under British rule.
‘The Falklands have the right to self-determination and the surrounding waters are under jurisdiction of the Falklands,’ he said. ‘I reject the threatening words of the Argentine Foreign Minister.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3119865/Cameron-furious-diplomatic-bust-Falklands-PM-went-irate-Argentine-foreign-minister-Brussels-summit.html#ixzz3cki2R7fG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
And what about Crimea Prime Minister?
@JJ
I wouldn’t compare the Malvinas/Falklands islands situated thousands of miles away from England, with a population of barely three thousand, most of who get to lead very cushy lives, all courtesy of the English taxpayer (so hence; they have very real financial motives to vote in favor of staying under British control, just like the Scotts did) to Crimea; which is literally next door to Russia, was historically/traditionally Russian for years and years, and has a large population (2.4 million) most of who consider themselves Russian, not Ukrainian.
And I agree, at a glance they do seem like analogous examples of a very similar nature, but in fact: they are polar opposites.
Camoron said: “The Falklands have the right to self-determination [..]”
Indeed they do, but surely, self-determination, should also include self-reliance, so have come the falklanders are so hopelessly addicted to British subsidies then?
-TL2Q
On traitors, saboteurs and compradors:
“The death of an international spy”.
Soviet newspaper Pravda editorial of August 24, 1940
https://culturaproletaria.wordpress.com/2015/06/06/la-muerte-de-un-espia-internacional/
P.S: I put this link because of the interest of this semblance of Trotsky to those unknowing the issue ( or even knowing to see if they are capable of question their own beliefs/teachings ). I do not know if this editorial came out with this picture of the dying patient, but in any case, I must say that I find it very distasteful and unethical, no matter how deplorable the character in question.
Dear The Saker,
I put this link on your other thread yesterday:
http://tass.ru/en/world/799958
The LNR clarified yesterday that they do recognise Crimea to be part of Russia. Also in the comments of the other thread it was pointed out that LNR cannot change the current wording of the constitution of Ukraine.
It was sloppy as someone released the information/draft before anything was finalised. So a bit of funny business going on there in my opinion……
Rgds,
Veritas
From cnn putin in Ukraine
Oh, give full credit to Stalin. Under him you would also pay with your life for things you didn’t do, you might do, you could be capable of doing or things someone else might do who is unfortunately just out of reach. And you could die for no reason at all, because there were still a few thousandes names missing on the list.
I believe too often we tend to focus on minutia rather than the bigger picture. The Crimea issue is permanently resolved. It is Russia and will never again be part of Ukro-nazi paradise. Any effort to subvert Crimea is now an attempt upon Russia itself. Case is closed. You know it, I know it. There will be mushroom clouds should there be any form of real attack.
There are bigger fish to fry otherwise. As for Saker’s feelings concerning LPR, they are perfectly justified in spite of apologist comments to the contrary. The LPR leadership must get their s!+t correct. Either they want new improved governance model or more of the same oligarch controlled crap.
Well, the accusation for a long time has been that the LNR had oligarchical, mafia, or business interests that either wanted to stay in the Ukraine or were far more interested in their profits than whether the people had running water or the army showed up to fight. This may be unfair, and perhaps you can address it.
What I don’t really understand at this late stage is the Kremlin’s approach of appearing uninvolved. This may have mattered nine months ago, but is a bit of a joke at this point. It is more important to clean up the mess than anything now.
That “Kremlin uninvolved” is one big pointer, for me, that they had nothing to do with the Mozgovoi murder. They’re just not that much into micro-managing. Novorossiya must have some ideas, too, about two governments there being a bit much, for the small populations; that they’re duplicating a lot of effort which they really don’t have duplicate expertise for. In this regard, note the wording on their proposed Constitutional changes — the special areas OR any associations they may form — foreshadowing associating into one legal entity. They’d have to give it some neutral common name, like Donbass something, can’t be republics if they’re part of a unified Ukraine again. United Donbass Territories?
Mr Saker i feel you over reacting a bit
Saker, are you serious about peace in Ukraine?
When they would have proposed something that recognized that Crimea is now part of Russia Kiev would have rejected it out of hand just for that reason. By keeping the Crimea discussion out of the picture they force Kiev and its supporters to have a good look at the rest of their proposal.
The Western press and the Maidan government may howl that the LPR betrayed Crimea, but who cares? Minsk-II simply didn’t say anything about Crimea and Ukraine just isn’t ready to accept a constitution that gives up Crimea. What is in my opinion much more important is how the average Ukrainian will react. If they think that the LPR made a reasonable proposal they will wonder why Kiev rejects it and insists instead on sending them to the East to risk their lives.