It is hard to get a good picture of what is happening in the eastern Ukraine, but looking at various sources it appears to me that large protests have occurred in the cities of Lugansk, Kharkov and Donetsk. From the video footage some rather large crowds, including a lot of women, have assembled in the city centers. In Donetsk and Lugansk the demonstrators have seized the governmental buildings including the local HQs of the Ukrainian SBU (security service). In Donetsk the demonstrators have gathered into something like a popular assembly and have declared the creation of a “People’s Republic of Donetsk” and have announced that they plan to hold a referendum on the future of the region on April 11th. The best sign, however, that things are becoming very serious in that the entire top ruling elite of the revolutionary government in Kiev – including Yulia Timoshenko – has relocated to the eastern Ukraine to try to get the situation under control.
My sense is that the crowds in the east seem very angry and very determined and that it might be very hard to get them out, at least without bloodshed (which could trigger a sudden appearance of “Polite Armed Men in Green”). The big weakness of the Russian-speakers in the eastern Ukraine is that their leaders are either already in SBU dungeons or rather tepid and weak. Nobody seems to be really in control.
In the meantime, RT is reporting that Ukrainian nationalists in Kiev have stormed the Supreme Court. Previously, they also attempted to storm the Ukrainian Parliament (but the western press “did not notice” that).
Civil wars are far more likely to occur when there is a vacuum of power than against a strong regime and this is exactly what we see in the Ukraine. For all the desperate attempts of the western elites and corporate media to try to pretend like there is a government in Kiev, the reality is clearly that there is no authority in power anywhere in the Ukraine. Not in the West, not in the Center and not in the East. All we have is complete chaos and many different factions and groups trying to take control.
Again, it is clear to me that unless the USA and Russia strike some kind of deal together the rump-Ukraine is headed straight for a civil war. I am not saying that I like the notion of the USA and Russia deciding the future of the Ukraine instead of the Ukrainian people, but I am saying that the conditions are simply not here for the Ukrainian people to express their will. Besides, the Ukraine being a completely artificial state, there is no way that the hopes and desires of the people in the western Ukraine and the eastern Ukraine can be reconciled. From this flows a simple fact: the more de-centralized a unitary Ukraine would be the more chances of survival it would have. In other words, when the Banderites and the West are insisting on one centralized unitary Ukraine they are actually contributing to the breakup of the country. In these conditions – why should Russia intervene. All it has to do is wait for the final collapse and then pick up whatever piece it will deem worthy of interest.
Stay tuned, the next couple of weeks will be crucial.
The Saker
Probability of direct US-Russian armed conflict?
Personally, I think it is absolute zero. It is not my usual perspective, but in this case, it is the only reasonable one: there is no money to be made with a world war. So much more money can be made from a “strained peace”. Almost infinitely more.
@Anonymous:Probability of direct US-Russian armed conflict? Personally, I think it is absolute zero.
Agreed. Not a chance. Thank God!
“Why should Russia intervene?”
Would Russia really be able to watch a long bloodletting next door, with half of the victims being Russian speakers, and millions of refugees heading to Russia?
Paul
”The barrage of trade sanctions Washington is imposed on Russia is an act of pre-war. We should remember that US sanctions imposed on Japan in 1941 that led Tokyo to attack the Western powers.”
Source: http://ericmargolis.com/2014/03/war-fever-in-the-air/
The banderivtsy are threatening crackdowns (but not violent – oh no ;) ) and passing anti-separatist laws. Their hypocrisy over the eastern protesting is amusing to watch. “It’s all a Russian plot”. :) The turds are now claiming they captured a Russian spy who was masterminding the protests.
The right sektor nazis in the west acting up in Kiev might actually be of indirect help to the people in the east. If these fools keep up their conflict with the banderivtsy junta, that infighting will hopefully keep these nazis from doing as much damage in the east as they would probably like to do.
Meanwhile one protesting group, in Donetsk, is asking Putin to temporarily send Russian peacekeepers to protect them from Kiev. And the Israeli-American quislings in Germany are saying they “are concerned” about the eastern protests. No doubt not the way those craven zionazi prison bitches were “concerned” about the earlier protests at maidan.
вот так
Saker and anonymous,
Neither of you really believe we’re not stupid, short-sighted and/or arrogant enough to send various mercenaries to “assist” our side, whatever/whomever it may be? You’ve more faith in Obama’s wisdom (or prudence) (or actual control over anything) than I do. No “conventional” armed conflict, ok, but then, when’s the last time we did that? What we do is, imo, infinitely worse.
Western ukraine can join eu while eastern and southern ukraine can join russia. Everyone will be happy that way.
But definitely there is something wrong with the picture. I know very well how TV is able to manipulate watchers with images.
Never ever I have seen 50 k-200 k men strong demonstrations. Only several hundred or 1000-2000 crowds (provocateurs?).
One of your commenter wrote recently the working Russians were told not to take part in any protests or they might lose their jobs.
Either they are so scared (no workers unions, no other political “forces” exist there, or traditions, etc, which could lead them to the streets or they have hell lot of to lose) or they simply give a damn who pays until he pays (yet) – what corresponds to your profile of Russians living in the Eastern parts of Ukraine you showed us several months ago.
Having the right skills, better info (intel?) sources and ability to read freely in Russian would you be kind to give us a closer look into what’s going on in Eastern part of Ukraine than the one presented to us by rt.com or other English language versions of Russian press?
Thank you.
Putin only needs to watch the “optics” of how Eastern Ukraine unifies with Russia, time is on his side for the following iron reasons:
1: Russia is more prosperous than the Ukraine; people vote with their bellies
2: The Russian peoples of the Ukraine were in a tenuous position before Crimea separated, now that Crimea is part of Russia, they are in an untenable political situation and will be a persecuted minority in Ukraine permanently. Looking for the exit door is the only rational position.
As far as the Ukrainian Right is concerned, if they don’t strike now they will be defanged. They have no international allies, and even if the IMF puppets in Kiev don’t destroy them (why wouldn’t they?) outside forces will.
Ironically, if their goal is neither East nor West, but local nationalism, their only potential friend is Putin(!) Sadly, from what I’ve seen, the Ukrainian right is a little short on craft. Hopefully, they can create enough chaos to delegitimate the current government and allow Russia to secure as much of the East as they can hold.
Аваков призывает стрелять в мирное население на юго-востоке Украины (Avakov urges to shoot civilians in the south-east of Ukraine)
http://anna-news.info/node/14827
“April 7 Information Center “South-Eastern Front” an anonymous source said that the self-styled Interior Minister Arsen Avakov arrived in Lugansk. He was accompanied by 50 armed guards.
Recall that on the eve of this the illegitimate government representative met with representatives of the “Black Hundreds.” According to the results of this event he has ordered to open fire on peaceful demonstrators. Was given only one caveat: do not shoot to kill.”
вот так
Anonydroid at 10:51 said: Having the right skills, better info (intel?) sources and ability to read freely in Russian would you be kind to give us a closer look into what’s going on in Eastern part of Ukraine than the one presented to us by rt.com or other English language versions of Russian press?
Hunsdon asked: Or other than the unified front presented by Western media, do you mean?
April 11 or May 11?
More on the sub-humanoid storm troopers:
В Донецк скрытно прибыл киевский спецназ (In Donetsk, landed troops maroon berets from Kiev)
http://lifenews.ru/news/130763
(auto trans) “It has turned out to LifeNews video from landing special forces soldiers Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs.
The plane arrived in Donetsk April 7 after acting President of Ukraine Oleksandr Turchynov announced the beginning of the anti-terrorist operation directed against protesters in eastern Ukraine.
The footage can be seen as fighters who only from unmarked maroon berets, open boxes of weapons, grenade launchers checking, sorting and hauling bales cartridges with mattresses and cape.
Plane with weapons and military, according to LifeNews, flew from Kiev. Maroon Berets Ukraine always wore only special forces soldiers MIA – “Golden Eagle” and “Titan”. Despite the fact that troops “Berkut” were disbanded, many of the soldiers of the unit over to the side of law enforcement agencies formed the new Ukrainian authorities.
Near the site of “halt” soldiers expect several buses that also can not be identified.
Acting President Alexander Turchinov said on April 7 that against the supporters of the referendum will apply coercive measures.
– Tonight established crisis management headquarters, and against those who took up arms, will be anti-terrorism measures – said Turchinov. – Given the passive behavior of some local law enforcement agencies, they will be understaffed by units from other regions – said Acting President of Ukraine.
Commander of the counterterrorist operation was appointed Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine Arsen Avakov. That he will coordinate security forces.”
The site shown in the video would have been a splendid target for one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qChRvn1AWA
But I suppose that would be a little too obvious…
вот так
@Anonymous:Probability of direct US-Russian armed conflict? Personally, I think it is absolute zero.
This time around, I agree, close to zero, as wars don’t just happen, but are rather well-prepared. Except the rabble “needs” some pretext which comes as a total surprise and is presented as the reason to go to war. But I don’t see these preparations having been done yet. That could change though, and any further “invasion” by Russia could serve as a pretext.
Why would the US be so crazy to attack Russia? Because Putin is using the sanctions to finally ditch the petrodollar. What else can the US reasonably do while going down the economic drain? They will certainly have a hard time selling Russia shady credit default swaps. Any except for financial weapons, and sanctions that don’t work, all the US has left at its disposal are military weapons.
The good news is, I expect some Western countries to finally jump the Western ship when that time comes, in order to survive.
Honk
Defensa.org
Spot on here I’d say.
@Anonymous
> We should remember that US sanctions imposed on Japan in 1941 that led Tokyo to attack the Western powers.
There’s a huge difference: Those sanctions – the US stopped to sell oil – actually hurt Japan badly, lethally in fact.
Russia is much less affected.
Honk
On the lighter side:
Стриптизерши из Ростова жертвуют зарплату на помощь лагерю “Артек” (Strippers from Rostov donate salary to help the camp “Artek”)
http://lifenews.ru/news/130732
(auto trans) “Dancers in Rostov-on-Don sacrifice day salary to help the children’s camp “Artek” in the Crimea. Charity event holds a strip club “Province”.
– We know that, after the Crimea became part of Russia, a popular children’s camp was closed – said an employee of the club Lana. – And we girls decided not to stand aside and do a good deed. Everything we earn today, will ship in Crimea.
The action is initiated by the dancers of the club.
– I recently watched a report which told that the “Artek” closed – said the founder of a network of strip clubs “Province” Sergei Siomkin. – It is a pity that the camp in which each of us had dreamed of visiting since childhood, closed. We decided to assist with the restoration of its part of his work. We hope that it will be open again.
Visitors strip club unanimously supported the idea of assistance “Artek”. April 8 tens of thousands of rubles will be transferred to the account of the institution.”
вот так
What is wrong with these people? They can’t live together, but won’t live apart. The Czechs and Slovaks managed a peaceful separation, but perhaps they didn’t have oligarchs preying on them. If the oligarchs lose their ‘western’/’fascist’ bully-boys, would they be able to continue leeching on the less impoverished east? Are the same crooks also sucking the blood of the western Ukraine, or are they different groups?
@Saker
The Right Sector guys are still out there, aren’t they? So now there’s a Right/Russian pincer on the junta.
The junta can’t let the Right Sector loose on the (pro-)Russians, otherwise Putin will intervene. So the junta has to solve the problem itself. But in the meantime, what’s the Right Sector gonna do? I have a feeling they aren’t very good at sitting on their hands – especially after their leader got killed…
Honk
@anonymous:April 11 or May 11?
What I heard today was *APRIL* 11th. That seems pretty crazy to me, but then maybe the reporter mis-spoke. Though maybe they are desperately trying to get some legitimacy as fast as possible, before the Ukies come up with some counter-attack option.
If I hear otherwise I will let you know.
Cheers,
The Saker
I remember Saker writing that Russia wont intervene in eastern Ukraine until the people there take action like in Crimea and then request help. looking at what is written in the 2 articles linked below, I’m wondering if that time is close?
Донбасс за нас (Donbass for us)
http://www.vz.ru/politics/2014/4/7/680887.html
Третьего не дано: украинский Юго-Восток либо будет с Россией, либо утонет в крови (No middle ground: Ukrainian Southeast will either Russia or drown in the blood)
http://www.km.ru/world/2014/04/07/protivostoyanie-na-ukraine-2013-14/736749-tretego-ne-dano-ukrainskii-yugo-vostok-li
Definite change in tone from before the weekend. Much stronger advocacy of Russia helping out.
вот так
@EVERYBODY: Will Russia intervene militarily or not?
Ok, let me clarify how I understand the situation. In my opinion, Russia will only intervene if 1) there is some major violence and 2) if Moscow believes that the locals are serious about holding their ground. In Crimea there clearly was a real risk of a coup (I will write more about that later) and there was a strong local movement willing to hold its ground against the neo-Nazis.
Right now, these conditions are not met (yet). Also, Russia will try really hard to keep its forces out of the Ukraine and I would much prefer to impose a federation/confederation as part of a US-Russian deal just because the Kremlin perfectly understands the level of tensions a direct military intervention would trigger.
But if there is no other option, yes, the Russians do not bluff, they will intervene.
HTH, cheers,
The Saker
Exclusive: Bulgarian nationalists may topple government over Russia sanctions
Bulgaria might be poor and insignificant as a member of the EU, but it is a member, and their government, as member of the EU “united against Russia”, breaking up over the sanctions should have carry symbolic power.
Honk
Euromaidan activists arrive in Georgia to destabilize situation there – Georgian interior minister
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_07/Euromaidan-activists-arrived-in-Georgia-to-destabilize-situation-there-Georgian-interior-minister-7834/
Тбилиси опасается Майдана (Tbilisi fears Maidan)
http://www.vz.ru/world/2014/4/7/680841.html
Is post tie-eater Georgia not being anti-Russian enough? Saakashvili is deeply involved in the destabilisation, according to the 2nd article.
вот так
@Honk:Bulgaria might be poor and insignificant as a member of the EU, but it is a member
Ecuador has shown that a small country can be bigger than many big countries. Hopefully, the Bulgarians will succeed in breaking free from the EU’s diktat. I just hope that they do that for the right reasons (their honor) and not the wrong ones (Russian money). I honestly don’t know.
I wish them well.
Thanks for the interesting info, cheers,
The Saker
I have as much (zilch) proof for this as I suspect the putschists have, but these demonstrations after a long lull miraculously starting all at the same time in 3 different locations could have been organized “by Russia”.
They definitely have been organized. By whom? It could actually be Yanukovich, as it mirrors his demand for referendums held for the various regions. Which, geographically, would make it eligible to be called at least “organized FROM Russia”…
Honk
Regarding the date of the referendum:
I believe it was initially May the 11th, but later moved to April 24th, in a coordinating move with Harkov, Lugansk and possibly other SE regions.
Cheers!
Honk
“I have as much (zilch) proof for this as I suspect the putschists have, but these demonstrations after a long lull miraculously starting all at the same time in 3 different locations could have been organized “by Russia”.
They definitely have been organized. By whom? It could actually be Yanukovich, as it mirrors his demand for referendums held for the various regions. Which, geographically, would make it eligible to be called at least “organized FROM Russia”.
I’ve been reading the Russian media, people have been trying to get things organised since the banderivtsy coup. Reading ANNA, over this period one can see how they’ve organised themselves and prepare their actions and marches. There probably is a few Russian “helpers” about, but these protests are definitely amateur grassroots affairs. My guess is that any “helpers” the Russians have there keep a low profile and discretely provide informal advice, rather than try to lead the movement.
вот так
Russia Tells Ukrainians: ‘Referendum’ Or We Can’t Protect You As Ukraine Proposes State Of Emegency
Russian peacekeepers can be sent to a foreign country exclusively within the framework of international law, not at the request of local authorities, Chairman of the Federation Council’s Defense and Security Committee Viktor Ozerov told Interfax while commenting on the Donetsk People’s Council’s possible appeal to Russia to send peacekeepers to this part of Ukraine.
“Our peacekeepers can only act in compliance with international law. We had examples when peacekeepers were sent to South Ossetia and Abkhazia, but that was done within the framework of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Just sending our peacekeepers to Donetsk, or elsewhere at the request of the local authorities would go against the principles of international law,” Ozerov said.
“Russia has no right to do this unilaterally. If, however, the UN Security Council passes a resolution on the introduction of peacekeepers, Russia, as its permanent member and a signatory to the Treaty on Cooperation and Security in Europe, will have the right to join a peacekeeping contingent in order to guarantee security in this or that region,” Ozerov said.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-07/russia-tells-ukrainians-referendum-or-we-cant-protect-you-ukraine-proposes-state-eme
T1
Seems like Harkov has likewise just proclaimed itself as an Independent Republic!
Hunger Games are Catching fire!
Most prepared and organized in the East of Ukraine seem the guys in Lugansk.
I’ve seen a video of interview with one of the heads of the United Front of the South-East (don’t remember the exact name)- there were three of them, armed and in masks. The guy has been saying that his men are ready to fight the junta.
Today in Lugansk the man removed his mask and said they are not going to retreat. According to him, they can organize 20000 (yeah, Twenty Thousand) armed men.
And even more.
In the building of the local security service HQ they got stil more arms – “for a battalion”…
Guys in Kharkov seem to be less organized, and are asking for help from other regions and Russia. Because: “It will be very difficult to resist the junta forces in case they attack” …
shed
The name of the man from Lugansk is Valery Bulatov.
Army of the South-East – that’s the name they gave to their armed organization.
shed
It’s worth asking how many Americans are willing to sacrifice their lives for a right-wing government in a country 4,700 miles away?
And how many Russians are willing to sacrifice their lives to defend Russian-speaking people in a neighboring state being slaughtered and enslaved?
And this after the misadventures in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya, to name the ones I can remember.
I believe that US and European “leaders” are risking significant loss of credibility. The straw in the wind were the 30 back-benchers in the British House of Commons who prevented Britain from bombing Syria… and thus prevented the US from bombing.
I suspect that direct or indirect Russia-NATO conflict is not impossible. First because the West now employs so many ‘private military contractors’ that afford a gossamer veil of ‘implausible deniability’, but more than enough for Western MSM liars. And second because Western collapse was already nigh, as their unequal, debt-laden economies crumbled, a position being made utterly inescapable by the collateral damage of sanctions imposed on Russia ie the hastened undermining of US dollar hegemony. These vermin are desperate and dangerous, and psychopaths to a man and Samantha Powers.
the virtue of employing terrorists…..Kievs thugs attacking protestors in east ukraine
Crimea&East @IndependentKrym 48m
@NinaByzantina here’s an HQ version,shockingly they even used a car with no lights to ram down tents/protesters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3cDJkbssZo&feature=youtu.be