Dear friends,
I had seen the Russian text on the OSCE page, and now Gleb Bazov sent me his translation. To say that I am under-impressed by this text would be an understatement. I would also note that many well informed sources spoke of a 14 points plan. Are two more points held in secret? What is certain is that this documents is imprecise, nebulous, ambiguous and otherwise vague to such a degree that I would argue that it is basically impossible to implement. Knowing the degree to which Russian diplomats are normally maniacally fastidious and pedantic with words, I can only conclude that they have deliberately sabotaged this agreement and that it’s sole use what to deflate the bellicose mood of the NATO summit. But as a basis for a real ceasefire it is useless, nevermind a real negotiation for a final status agreement or peace treaty.
The first rule for any kind of ceasefire is to provide a painstakingly accurate timetime for the implementation of unambiguously defined and verifiable de-escalation measures followed by a precise schedule for confidence building measures subject to mutual verification. There is nothing like that here. Points 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11 mean absolutely nothing, the rest are vague and ambiguous at best. This is one of the worst ceasefire agreements I have ever seen.
Either way, numerous reports seem to indicate that the cease-fire has already been violated in many locations. Some kind of deal will eventually be made, and maybe this symbolic first step is, at best, a way to get the process going. But in itself, this document is useless.
The Saker
PS: I will be gone all day tomorrow. I leave you with an open thread.
——-
on the results of consultations of the Trilateral Contact Group
with respect to the joint steps aimed at
the implementation of the Peace Plan
of the President of Ukraine, P. Poroshenko,
and the initiatives of the President of Russia, V. Putin
Upon consideration and discussion of the proposals put forward by the participants of the consultations in Minsk on September 1, 2014, the Trilateral Contact Group, consisting of the representatives of Ukraine, the Russian Federation and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe [OSCE], reached an understanding with respect to the need to implement the following steps:
- Ensure the immediate bilateral cessation of the use of weapons.
- Ensure monitoring and verification by the OSCE of the regime of non-use of weapons.
- Implement decentralization of power, including by means of enacting the Law of Ukraine “With respect to the temporary status of local self-government in certain areas of the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions” (Law on Special Status).
- Ensure permanent monitoring on the Ukrainian-Russian state border and verification by the OSCE, together with the creation of a security area in the border regions of Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
- Immediately release all hostages and unlawfully detained persons.
- Enact a law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that took place in certain areas of the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions of Ukraine.
- Conduct an inclusive national dialogue.
- Adopt measures aimed at improving the humanitarian situation in Donbass.
- Ensure the holding of early local elections in accordance with the Law of Ukraine “With respect to the temporary status of local self-government in certain areas of the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions” (Law on Special Status).
- Remove unlawful military formations, military hardware, as well as militants and mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine.
- Adopt a program for the economic revival of Donbass and the recovery of economic activity in the region.
- Provide personal security guarantees for the participants of the consultations.
Participants of the Trilateral Contact Group:
Ambassador Heidi Talyavini (signed)
Second President of Ukraine, L.D. Kuchma (signed)
Ambassador of the Russian Federation in Ukraine, M.Y. Zurabov (signed)
A.V. Zakharchenko (signed)
I.V. Plotnitskiy (signed)
My hunch is the novorossian delegation was told that they needed to agree to a deal by the deadline otherwise NATO would intervene directly in the conflict and this must be avoided at all costs,
When you have to agree to something under a hard deadline with no ability to walk off when the terms are bad this is the kind of deal you get. I can’t imagine the novorossian delegation agreeing to this kind of protocol otherwise.
Interesting sidelight by Paul Craig Roberts and RT on the IMF loan to Kiev: “Monsanto in Ukraine: IMF loan for Ukraine may give GMO giant a backdoor into EU”:
rt.com/op-edge/183956-gmo-ukraine-monsanto-imf/
The important thing to remember about this document, aside from the fact that neither Novorossiyan signed it in any official capacity, is that the one and only clause with any specificity whatever related to the protection of the signatories — everything else was just vague, empty, undefined words. If it were a literal blueprint, you couldn’t build a thing: it’d just be a blank piece of paper.
So please, fantasists anddoomsayers, both: just remember, “our side” signed it, and they must have had reasons even if we still can’t figure all of them out. Let’s just keep watching the play-by-play, keep in mind the (waay) bigger picture and let the whole thing play out a bit more. It will.
American Kulak,
Good. Lord. Haven’t read it, but is Qatar behind ISIS too, or are we now backing them instead of the Saudis? And where-o-where is poor widdle Israel in all this mess? The NYT has been known to be a bit of a Zionist rag…
I do hope Saker will let you run a piece on this — it’s certainly a large part of whatever-the-hell is going on. You would think the Leader Of The Free World’s hands wouldn’t be tied re: all this but that might be a most erroneous assumption. (I seriously don’t like McCrazy in charge of anything, including the key to the restroom, but he sure seems to treat Obama like an attendant thereof.)
espina,
Have you seen this?
http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/entry/scottish-independence-uk-dependency
“The UK has run a deficit on its trade in goods every single year since 1983. We have imported more goods than we have exported every year for three decades. Including services and overseas earnings (the “current account”), the UK has run a deficit since the mid-1990s. Today, that deficit is close to record levels, at 4.4% of GDP.”
“Today, the UK holds the world’s second-largest external debt, behind only the US. The UK, collectively, owes 406% of its GDP to its overseas creditors.
This deficit has been sustained, so far, because we have an extraordinarily large financial sector, a key part of the global financial system. The City depends on a high value pound for its own operations. Financial assets (and property) denominated in pound sterling are much more appealing when the value of the pound is high, and stable. (Never mind, of course,the consequences for those seeking to export.) One result of this is that the UK has the largest financial sector liabilities of any developed economy, relative to its size, at an extraordinary 1,634% of GDP”
That’ll be quite some blow you’ll be striking for independence! .:~)
Some might want to check out Colonel Cassad’s take:
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1773476.html
He has argued for a long time that the Kremlin has been trying to not make a tough choice between serious economic pain and giving up the Ukraine under the cover of some lie.
An excerpt:
Moscow and in the spring of 2014 does not have a coherent strategy in the Donbass and acts situational. This is because scheduled in early March, the line on the big new Russia, with troops for its security after April 24 (when this decision refused) ordered to live long. But since the uprising is already the de facto was in full swing, the Kremlin faced an unpleasant dilemma – from troops under the threat of direct confrontation with the United States declined from full discharge of Novorossiya, too, had to be abandoned because of the implications for inner peace in the Russian Federation were considered unacceptable. In the end, was selected partial option, when one hand fed militias, and the other tried to negotiate with the Ukrainian oligarchs (bypassing USA) about stopping the process.
…
Some still stubbornly can’t understand that the war junta with the new Russia, this is only one dimension of the conflict without resolving the contradictions between the USA and Russia, full of peace will not be there. Therefore, Minsk negotiations and pachana paper, which was signed there, it’s just another attempt to jump out of the same unpleasant fork decisions that still need to take.
Actually that is why I did not rush to join the crowd with cries of “the new Russia merged” or recite mantras about GPP. The final choice remains to be done and the current efforts will depart from it, only worsen the conditions in which this selection will be made.
New Russia in some form certainly will be. But whatever it will be, will be decided in the coming weeks, when it becomes clear the final choice of Russia in the Ukrainian question.
VladTheFluffy says:
Dear Saker
Listening to Porko and the DPR spokesmen, it was quite clear that this is only some form of convenient agreement to temporarily stop shooting. Porko was blathering on about the important matter being the preservation of the territorial integrity of the Ukraine; the DPR people were emphasising that they will accept nothing less than full independence. That doesn’t leave a lot of wiggle room on either side.
We already know that the fourth reich will only accept complete chaos in the Ukraine (a la Libya) leading on to a breakup or subjugation of Russia and the preservation of its self-professed global primacy; Russia and China will only accept a fully multi-polar world and, for preference, a breakup of NATO and the Washington consensus.
Now what shall we do after we’ve squared the circle …. ?
Can’t see the objective of calming down the NATO conference worked too well. Can’t wait to see what sanctions the US and EU will impose on Monday. What will Russia’s response be? Remove overfly rights and importation of luxury cars perhaps? At that point Merkel will have a very itchy back with all those targets being painted on her back by the German industrialists.
Since this is an open post I thought I’d let Canadians posters (from Canuckistan and the Dump-Harper crowd) know that the RT has been blocked off the air on Bell Media (42% of the Canadian market) for 2 days straight under the excuse of technical difficulties (even though the channel has come thru perfectly clear and then knocked off). Given that this is now a paid subscription channel (due to a politically motivated decision by the Canadian regulator that forced cable/sat providers to remove it from the free/basic channel block a month ago) this is quite surprising. Channel’s being knocked off air from more than a few minutes or hours is very rare up here, but several days? That’s almost unheard of in this supposedly developed country.
Of course they’ll claim it’s for technical reasons but given how often we’re lied to, I more inclined to believe that this has to do with the emotionally fragile and immature nature of some the politically straight-jacket idiots that (mis)-run this country (i.e. sour-grapes at having been beaten in a fake game of geopolitics).
In addition to blocking RT from approx half the Canadian market, the internet access for RT Live has become near unusable.
Now I know RT broadcasts some propaganda, it’s not as blatant, idiotic or pole-headed as the garbage we get from the English-Language MSM (not even close to as moronic as the MSM); RT staff actually have degrees and are actually qualified professionals in their respective fields – not like the mindless airheads we have to deal with from the BBC, CNN, FOX, CBC, ITN, BSKYB, etc; i.e. people whose main qualification is probably based on how skilled they are at oral sex and their performance in the Director’s couch.
Any other Canadians out their who’ve experienced this outage on their Cable or satellite providers?
Closing fronts to deal with ISIS
http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2014/09/closing-fronts-to-deal-with-isis.html
Wow.
Suspicious-of-Saker has both of us laughing harder than that danged agreement. I didn’t think that was possible, at least not within a 12-hour time span. But paranoia can do awful things to what might once have been a decent-enough mind: schizophrenia’s not called a thought disorder for nothing. And female mentality??? Dear. Lord. Saker, you may be flattered by that — you should be — but you sure ain’t no lady! ;~)
Not that there’s anything wrong with being a gentleman, I might add.
Barn Owl,
Erin go bragh! But standard poodles are duck dogs not lap dogs, and far more intelligent than Bliar, Cameron et. al. Also a whole lot nicer.
@ The Saker,
I was sure the Suspicious-of-Saker would give you a good laugh.
I confess I find it difficult to conceive this message has been written “seriously” or “troll-ly”, or anything but as a mere trick…
Yet, following a Larchmonter445 comment on a previous post, many don’t understand what an alpha-male is. Dominant is not domineering; I don’t think an alpha-male can even be the latter, can he? Yet what a society like ours promotes, is mediocrity and self-promotion and despises being and acts. An alpha-male doesn’t do self-promotion (unless he decides so for another goal), he is, and he acts. Thus the mediocrity of our elites (I am particularly concerned as a French, but your president, though more elegant and “classy” and having a nicer smile than ours, doesn’t seem so very smart either).
Furthermore, an alpha-male is not necessarily very clever, but he has a balanced character, he is sober on confrontation etc (though not fearing it the least, just wisely sparing every means of his and his herd, unlike who tries the least chance of winning any bit of leadership); while “elite things” such as CIA, NATO, State Department… seem to select only psychopaths (ah, and Ukrainia Today, too, nice was your video ;-) )
So, these people can very hardly apprehend a real alpha-male, but President Putin is not a mere alpha-male : he is “the absolute male”, told me an alpha-male just the character of Jane Austen’s Mr Knightley (yes, he does exist in real life); the kind of male any other alpha-male would consider “un-winnable” and would respect and not bother, unlike psychopaths. As if it was not enough, he seems to be extremely, but really extremely clever, shrewd, prudent… There are very clever psychopaths but they necessarily have a disadvantage and I don’t think there is any near so clever.
Of course, for people who can give their confidence only to people they totally apprehend, they cannot give it him because he is so much cleverer than all of us… To be true, I find more affinity to Colonel Strelkov because he seems closer of an ideal we might reach, or have reached (if…), or try hopefully to reach. Even more so to Zakharchenko, even more so to many others. But I strongly rely on President Putin, if not for anything else, for being the only being able to resist the Evil Empire, and even to defeat it before it destroys the world.
To go back to you, some sight-impaired (mostly delta or omega males, I suppose; any alpha or beta male would instinctively detect it) may see the alpha male’s (I mean, the real one, not the one taking steroids and studying his place at the bar, or harrassing women, who can be neither alpha nor beta) quiet, peaceful ways, as a lack of virility or as weakness, whereas it is quite the opposite. So do they with President Putin… or with you, who I suppose must be whether alpha whether beta, I am not a psy…
And if you have a look at Internet chats etc, Americans in general seem to have a biased perception of alpha males (they suppose them to be aggressive for instance, or bright instead of quietly attractive) and a deprecative perception of beta males (seen weak while they just avoid confrontation even more than alphas, but are quite strong-minded and suitable mates for alpha females).
TR
I guess the thing to remember about the Anglo-Zionist Axis is that aggression works, if the goal is not necessarily to take and hold territory, but if the goal is to ruin the civil society of your “enemy” and put your own taxpayers out on the farthest limb to pay for all it.
I do appreciate the fact that you don’t conflate the American government with the American people – there are a LOT of people in this country, and an ever-growing number, who want nothing to do with non-stop international aggression or big government socialism.
Well.. The “Putin-bashers” were proven right. For every moment that passes the oligarchy and its nazi troops are getting stronger, meanwhile the Novorussia leaders just sign a contract saying they will disband their troops and remain inside Ukraine.. Pretty obvious why Strelkov was removed.
“5 NATO members to send weapons to Ukrainian forces, presidential aide says”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-crisis-renewed-fighting-threatens-fragile-ceasefire-1.2758330
Yes, the Ukrainian military is preparing for a counterattack, but from current reports of what they are attempting on the ground right now, it seems that they could have done them regardless of the piece of paper from Minsk anyway.
The war will not be a brief one and there will be numerous back-and-forths. My own (of course completely inexpert) view is that it is perhaps not too helpful for outside observers to fixate too much on the amount of territory controlled at any one given moment; the amount of enemy forces neutralized is more important in this type of conflict.
“At the NATO summit agreements were reached on the provision of military advisers and supplies of modern armaments from the United States, France, Italy, Poland and Norway,” the aide, Yuri Lytsenko, said on his Facebook page.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-crisis-renewed-fighting-threatens-fragile-ceasefire-1.2758330
The Phantom Ceasefire
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-06/ceasefire-over-shelling-resumes-mariupol-and-donetsk
How naive of Putin and the NAF to ever trust Nazis.
Strictly for the public relations fictions
End result:
1. More sanctions
2. More dead civilians
Putin own goal. Judas move
Basically, the only thing that can stop this from being one of the greatest betrayals in modern times..
Is if for some reason the Novorussians really needed a break, and Moscow and the Novorussians knew that oligarchy-nazists would betray the ceasefire and resume fighting. And the only function of the ceasefire was for the Novorussians to do what they needed to do, and for the Novorussians to get the moral superiority when the Kiev-oligarchy attacked.
Because at this point Kiev is being armed and their troops trained, and not armed with shitty weapons either, modern weapons from advanced NATO members.
Colonel Cassad’s first rate analysis of the war in Ukraine: it tells the truth as it is.
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1773476.html#cutid1
The root problem of the troubles with Putin’s, Lavrov’s ad Surkov’s politics of “big [and self-defeating] bargain,” “dithering,” and “oscillations” is, as I see it, the obvious elitism of this politics as opposed to the principles of “narodnaya vlast” (people’s power). In this politics that relies on (well behaving) oligarchs, bureaucrats, and political managers, people (whether in Russia or Novorossiya) and people’s power are barely factored in. This hubris of power is morally inadequate and politically suicidal.
Colonel Cassad also reveals the fact that excellent analyses of the Saker has also been accompanied with excellent disinformation covering up the policy of the “great [and suicidal] bargain” which Putin, Lavrov, and Surkov tried to implement based on decision from April 24.
NATO Wales Summit Heightens Tensions Pouring More Fuel on Fire (II)
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/09/06/nato-wales-summit-heightens-tensions-pouring-more-fuel-fire-ii.html
Amnesty International has issued a predictably ambivalent ‘report’. What’s odd is that it has published satellite imagery that it has commissioned to document what it considers to be Russian arms. The AI web page (poor on details and proofs, except the photos incriminating Russia) highlights, above all, Russian involvement (‘revealed’, ‘shown’ etc.). It’s odd. I’m no expert, but I didn’t think AI was mandated by its statute to make this kind of analysis, but rather to monitor wartime consequences on civilians and POWs, plus threats to human, political, social and civil rights rights. Have I missed something? I haven’t found a pdf or anything yet. Here’s the link.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/ukraine-mounting-evidence-war-crimes-and-russian-involvement-2014-09-05
The future of negotiations:
MOSCOW, September 07 /ITAR-TASS/.
The Contact Group on Ukraine, which had its latest meeting in Minsk on Friday, may meet in an extended format at the end of next week, Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) Alexander Zakharchenko said on Sunday.
“A preliminary agreement was to meet again in a span of seven to eight days,” he said in an interview with the Kommersant FM radio station. “They will voice their suggestions. According to preliminary agreements, it will be an extended meeting.
“The Ukrainian presidential staff will commission some people. So far, I do not know who it will be – the list is being agreed. In any case, Donetsk and Lugank will send [First Deputy Prime Minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic Andrei] Purgin and [speaker of the Supreme Council of the Lugansk People’s Republic Alexei] Karyakin.”
Zakharchenko said he would decide whether to take part in the next Contact Group meeting after he learned who would represent Ukraine.
He also said that Russia’s Ambassador to Ukraine Mikhail Zurabov was also expected to take part in the extended meeting.
At its meeting in the Belarusian capital city Minsk on Friday, the Contact Group on the resolution of the conflict in Ukraine adopted a peace plan and a ceasefire agreement. Attending the meeting were officials from Kiev, representatives of the embattled south-eastern regions of Ukraine, officials from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) and Russia.
Sounds like all they have so far is hotel reservations in Minsk. Agree to meet if they can arrange a meeting. Agree to talk if they all send the proper representatives. Agree to talk about things if they get around to talking about things.
Probably will get another thousand civilians killed for sure.
Meanwhile, better troops with combat experience from other wars and with fresh NATO equipment are now in place. Kiev will get its 4th wave going shortly. There’s the other half of Donetsk left to destroy.
@American Kulak said: Qatari pro-Syria regime change lobby takeover of Brookings Institute via their Sheikh money laundering offices at the ‘Brookings Doha Center’ is now partially exposed by the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/07/us/politics/foreign-powers-buy-influence-at-think-tanks.html?smid=tw-share&_r=2
More on this in the latest open thread for Sunday Sept. 7, 2014.
Dearest American Kulak,
Isn’t Qatar with the Empire and why now the MSM is exposing Qatar? What is their motive?
1. Is Qatar no longer supporting regime change in Syria?
2. Is the Empire no longer supporting regime change in Syria?
3. Is the Empire and Qatar are at odd regarding regime change in Syria sides these days?
4. What side were Qatar and Turkey on during the latest Gaza War?
5. What side were Egypt and Saudi Arabia on during the latest Gaza War?
6. What is the Israel role is all this?
These and many, many more questions come to my mind.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Why do folks say Putin wants a unified Ukraine but wouldn’t want Novorossiya under his complete, separate control?
He can have both. Ukraine would be the land of the walking dead economically, and Novorossiya would be a Russian protectorate, which is what Crimea will be as long as Ukraine is a stooge for NATO/US.
Crimea will only be fully integrated in Russia and forgotten as a target when Novorossiya and Transnistria are integrated. A Russian presence will have to be based in those protectorates until Ukraine fully disintegrates into its pre-modern historic parts.
What was, should be. Ukraine was a never-could- be state. It now is a never-will-be state.
Power makes borders, and Russia is the power in the region. Russia should make the borders as it needs them.
Meanwhile, kill the nazis. Degrade the Ukie military.
Finish the war. Set the new borders. Fuck NATO and the dream of the State Department.
Its the right time for Russia to act as the Regional Power, as Obama taunted them.
I think many people are getting needlessly hang up on the legality/signatories of this agreement. The protocol is meant to have a *Political* effect only. Even the military effect is tangential.
The point is that all parties sat together in one room, agreed on something and the relevant people publicly accepted/owned the agreement. It doesn’t matter who signed it, their legal status, whether its a protocol not a treaty, has legal force etc
They could have “pinky promised” or “touched their toes, licked their nose and sworn to try” for all legal form mattered. The important thing is that Putin, Poroshenko and the de facto Novorussian leadership, publicly acknowledged the agreement.
Even if it falls apart now, the primary effect has been achieved. It will open the door to further negotiations and agreeements. It weakens Poroshenko politically and it strengthens Putin’s hand in Novorussia (i.e. it creates an appetite for peace there).
Some say its a Putin sell out of Novorussia. But how can it be? Putin has never supported an independent Novorussia. Nor is he obligated to do so. Russia has consistently advocated a federalized Ukraine with special status for Donbass. Thats clearly what Russia is working towards.
Those claiming a Putin sellout are confusing what *they* think Russia should be doing with what Russia has said it would do and support.
Personally I support Putin’s position. A federalized Ukraine with Novorussia acting as a break on the west Ukie crazies is the bets outcome from an anti-imperialist point of view.
An independent Novorussia will hand the rest of Ukraine to NATO on a platter. It would also weaken Russia’s ability to act as a global brake on western imperialism.
The break up of Ukraine is a win for western imperialism and a loss for global anti-imperialism.
That outcome is just fine for the imperialists. They would like nothing better than perpetual civil war on Russia’s borders. NATO does not need Ukraine, it needs to squeeze Russia. Perpetual conflict and collapse in Ukraine achieves that as well as NATO membership for Ukraine.
Putin will defeat US Imperialism in Ukraine if he can produce a federalized, de-nazified, neutral and prospering Ukraine. If he does this, Ukraine may well be imperialism’s high water mark. Ukraine may be Western imperialism’s Stalingrad.
Another point for those arguing that the ceasefire is bad because it allows the junta to regroup and launch an offensive.
Remember that at the beginning of the war, the junta *did* regroup, it
*did* launch an offensive and it *did* get its butt kicked!
Its ok if the junta comes back for more of the same.
One of the few downsides to this agreement, AFAICS, is if it negatively affects NAF morale. But thats also tied to how much *military* support the get from Russia.
Congratulations from the Ministry Of Silliness, Suspicious-of-Saker, for winning todays first prize!
@Everybody: Obama To Announce Game Plan Against ISIS
And, I quote from the above article:
He emphasized the United States would need Sunni Arab states in the region including Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the United Arab Emirates and Turkey to “step up” and help.
“I think, for … perhaps the first time, you have absolute clarity that the problem for Sunni states in the region, many of whom are our allies, is not simply Iran. It’s not simply a Sunni-Shia issue,” he said. Iran is a Shiite-dominated country.
Like I said, InshaAllah sectarian is becoming past.
Saker has an excellent blog. But Ukraine being Saker’s backyard, he is only concentrating on Ukraine. The World is not Ukraine. The World is much, much greater than Ukraine.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Hi Saker,
I have been thinking recently about the US being involved in seemingly endless international conflicts, but with no formal declaration of war requiring the approval of Congress.
The US has not formally declared war since World War 2.
I found this article that helps to explain the history of how this happened:
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110328-what-happened-american-declaration-war#axzz3CeI8TuaG
This lack of oversight and restraint by the American public is becoming increasingly dangerous, especially now that Russia is being confronted, and could result in the end of us all.
@Everybody,
Like Nora said, “Ukraine, Ferguson, Gaza, Iraq, Nigeria are all the same”.
Only concentrating on Ukraine, we miss out the big picture.
Let us take Pakistan, who are the biggest suppliers of both ISIS and Boko Haram.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
As Scottish referendum about its independence drawing closer I wonder how can you define people who will vote for the independence. Separatists? Or perhaps, terrorists?
Ok, and here is another question. Should England commence the Anti-Terror op against the separatists or if you like pro-Scottish forces? Ridiculous questions, aren’t they?
Novorossiya shall be! Oligarchs out! Power to the real, common people! This is our [first] chance in many decades to build an equitable, human and humane society.
http://slavyangrad.org/2014/09/06/alexey-mozgovoi-i-will-continue-to-the-end/#more-3516
There are so many who did not like what was begun and do not want to push it to its logical conclusion!
They only have money, offices and portfolios in their heads! But why did the people of the South-East rise up??? Was it just so that they could lose countless lives, lose their livelihoods, lose their confidence in the future?
If we are fighting for the interests of the people, is it not up to the people themselves to decide the outcome of this struggle? See it through completely…
Who among these so-called members of the governments of the DPR and the LPR bothered to ask the opinion of the Militiamen, who lose their comrades in battles; the opinion of the relatives, who lost fathers, sons and daughters in this struggle for the right to live free and to choose their own path? I believe none of them did. All this seems to be a farce; a spectacle, in which the role of the people of Novorossiya is to be extras on the set.
There have now been several stages of this betrayal of Novorossiya (including the ‘resignation’ of Igor Ivanovich Strelkov). In my opinion, right now, we are witnessing another attempt, by means of negotiations, to stop the resistance and to prevent the destruction of the oligarchic power in Ukraine. The fifth column in action… The transfer of power from the oligarchy to the people—right now this is the so-called international community’s nightmare. It became clear to everyone long ago that the world is ruled by the likes of Valtsman [Poroshenko], Chubais and the Rockefellers. For these, removal from power is akin to death.
And what do we see now? ARRANGEMENTS! And with whom? At the negotiating table: the venerable Kuchma! During his reign, the fat cats only gained momentum and swelled their appetites! Corruption soared to inexplicable heights. He should be prosecuted, not negotiated with! What will happen to the special status of Novorossiya, when all the same contract killers will remain? What guarantees can be discussed with people that have eliminated the word TRUTH from their vocabulary?
Only Kiev’s capitulation can resolve the current situation. Only a separation of business interests from government can offer the chance to build a state with a human face. And only the prosecution of those who hold power, of the world “elite” can enable the people to regain their dignity. Otherwise it was all for naught—all the slogans and all the victims.
Do we want to remain as marionettes in the hands of the armchair intellectuals? I am not satisfied with such a prospect! We did not take up arms just to stop halfway.
There always was and always will be fear. Right now, many are afraid of the coming winter. But this is animal fear. I am much more afraid of staying as a serf—of remaining an animal in the hands of the glossy feudal lords.
I will continue to the end! Until we reach the intended target! Until the full and unconditional victory of the free and proud Russian Slavic World!!! Alexey Mozgovoi
Vineyard: I had skipped Suspicious after the first line, it being obvious loony-babble at once. But at your suggestion I went back and had a complete look. You’re right, it’s a laugh. Other than that, though, ignore and delete, I suggest.
Saker, you are a beautiful she-falcon!
Cheers to whoever took this chunk of ameroshit down:
In Ukraine killed the nephew of the Deputy Bandera and employee of the CIA – of Mykola Lebed
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/4510-na-ukraine-ubit-plemyannik-zamestitelya-bandery-i-sotrudnika-cru-mykoly-lebedya.html
He was the nephew of one of bandera’s aides [lovers] Mikola Lebed. The nazis [both amero and ukie] are beside themselves with grief. Humans are celebrating, though.
And speaking of the ukie nazis:
Foreign Policy: volunteer battalions are going to retaliate Kiev
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/4511-foreign-policy-dobrovolcheskie-batalony-sobirayutsya-mstit-kievu.html
“Soldiers volunteer battalions “Donbass”, “Azov” and other promised that by the end of hostilities in the East of Ukraine will organize protests similar to those that forced Viktor Yanukovych to resign…”
вот так
I just can not find the logic behind all this “ceasefire agreement” signing nor I can see what benefits it brings to either Novorussia or Russia itself…Because as “just a flying peace of parer” as it IS in relation to everything that happend and happens “on the ground” and as it is presented now to the russian public by certain Kremlin PR outlets and analitics,this “DOCUMENT” still has some binding legal power…And MOST IMPORTANTLY it gives the WHOLE iniciative-militarilly,legally AND as a PROPAGANDA weapon-back to the junta(the “western” cabal gang).It has demoralizing effect on the population of Donbass and those who support the movement in other parts of Ukraine…in Russia itself!It creates internal pressure inside the Militia formations,their leaders,among the political leadership of Novorussia…It is a DISASTEROUS…piece of paper to sign…And the Fact that the two “political leaders” of Novorussia signed it as…well just private persons…’who’ are “they” which entity they represent is DAMNING…It is a MESS and cast shadow on the (supposed) top level professionalism of the Russian Foreign Ministry…As I tried to explain really a mistery to me…well if it is not what it looks to be-a dirty little(oligarho-nwo)deal behind the back and (spitting)on the graves of the Donbass people…
Moscow has been remarkably silent since the start of the “ceasefire”.
What we have got so far is more threats from NATO, more anti Russian crap in western Der Sturmer-fascist media and the retarded ukie Nazi´s setting up counter offensives everywhere.
I hope the swift response from Russia comes soon…
Mikhas.
The Ukrainian military losses recently cited here must be vast exaggerations of the truth. If the ATO had really lost in excess of 10,000 killed and wounded, Ukraine’s war effort would have collapsed and Ukraine would now be awash in revolution. In order to sustain casualties that high, Kiev would have to be managing a war effort on the scale of the Winter War, WW1, or the Russo-Japanese War. Obviuosly the ATO is not an endeavor comparable in size or scope to these bigger, earlier wars.
Even so, it’s likely that Ukrainian casualties are excessive, and probably translate directly into operational defeat for the ATO. The NSDC admits losses of 900 killed and 3,200 wounded. We can safely assume that the truth is two or three times higher. Relative to Kiev’s troop levels in Donbass (25,000 to 50,000) and the short time frame of the campaign (less than three months), these casualty rates are unsustainable.
Ukraine’s military effort to suppress Donbas is probably not over yet; the ceasefire terms are unenforceable and flatter neither side’s political objectives. But even so, given the ATO’s losses and tactical defeats so far, Kiev’s war effort looks hopeless. If the war continues, Ukraine will ultimately suffer larger scale version of what happened to the Spanish army at the Disaster of Annual in 1921.
GW
Saker: I think “suspicious of saker” has a point concerning atimes.com. This (still excellent) web paper has got some strange mixture. On the one hand Pepe “the great” Escobar with its deep and right on the target analysis and on the other “Spengler” a Zionist (I think) with very obscure intentions not strange to promoting mass killings but also somehow interesting to read. Lately they publish “Radio free Europe” with its biased pro NATO, CIA profiles. Well, he has a point indeed.
Saker: I think “suspicious of saker” has a point concerning atimes.com. This (still excellent) web paper has got some strange mixture. On the one hand Pepe “the great” Escobar with its deep and right on the target analysis and on the other “Spengler” a Zionist (I think) with very obscure intentions not strange to promoting mass killings but also somehow interesting to read. Lately they publish “Radio free Europe” with its biased pro NATO, CIA profiles. Well, he has a point indeed.
@Dalpe,
Very interesting analysis.
For my part, as I said in another post, I do not trust a ceasefire signed with the same or similar elements that have failed one after another any agreement signed so far.
I have a rule in my life that fooled me once, and not give a second chance.
I think the only point for representatives of Novorossiya was the prisoner exchange because they are sending the captured soldiers to their home but not occurs so in the opposite direction. Also to secure more humanitarian aid for the winter.
Saker, on your Q&A analysis format, when asked about the oligarchs present in the agreement, you answer with the question -What oligarchs?
Well, as far as I know, was the former president Kuchma who sold the best steel companie in the country, at bargain price, to his future son in law, Victor Pinchuk, currently one of the richest man in Ukraine.
According to what we understand in Spain, although the monkey in silk is still a monkey.
It can be called former president, but is oligarch. For me as crystal clear as for Mozgovoi.
And crystal-Zacharchenko said, on that memorable press conference: –NIET OLIGARCHY. I do not forget.
So what’s this about?
http://www.voltairenet.org/article182288.html
For people of Donbass, which is being played life fighting and has seen the death of their colleagues, family, children and neighbors, not enough for them to give them a poke of oligarchs whose name is already burned in the conflict, Kolomoiskyi, Akhmetov, Avakov, Poroshenko, by others whose name has not been heard in the media who operated in the rear to the same interests, open the doors wide to NATO / USA, stealing more and continue to enslave people of Donbass.
As my mother and my grandmother says: “For this trip did not need so many saddlebags”.
Down with Zakharchenko and Plotnitskiy!
Up with Strelkov and Gubarev!
Up with Mozgovoy and Motorola!
Build the Underground Red Army of New Soviet Ukraine!
– from Nazi-occupied Amerika
Barn Owl,
I’m really sorry if I got that one wrong! You’re a beautiful bird, btw, at least on this side of the lake, but I’m so fixed on Ireland I totally forgot about Wales! Dear Heavens, please accept my apologies. And might you be considering independence also?
Right from twitter: “So the agreement is that one side has to disarm and the other gets a huge influx of modern weapons. Smart move…” I’d finish the sentence with “… dear Chess Master”
It doesn’t make any sense to stop the fighting unless Mariupol and probably Sloviansk are secured.
Otherwise Novorussia is not going to be a viable entity.
Interesting dossier on Chechnya (at least for me who had not studied the issue but I’ve always heard people from the left in my country, who I appreciate, criticize Putin for this).
Is fine, really, try to translate it, guys.
Another reason for me to trust V.V. Putin. And, yes, I love him, I can not help it, when a person takes his principles, moral, until the very end, something so rare these days, it wins my heart.
God bless him and my loved fighters in Novorossiya too.
http://euskalherriasozialista.blogspot.com.es/
TR and Larchmonter,
Sorry to burst your bubble but all that alpha male nonsense is just that: nonsense. The concept was developed by some guys working with wolves, who ultimately realized they’d blown it and that dominant males, in fact, Helped. Nurture., not serve as models for teevee Westerns and Empire porno-violence. Neoliberal bankster twits, evo folks who haven’t a clue what Darwin really said and keep trying to justify their own needs, and Ayn Rand permanent adolescents all love this stuff of course, but once again, myth is not reality and concensus, especially among the ignorant, equals not fact.
Keep believing it though, if it makes you feel better. Real men don’t need it. ;~)
Nora,
Before you launch into an emotional diatribe against me for disagreeing with you let me pre-amble with the following:
You wrote an excellent article on the Ferguson Incident and the real hell Black Americans (Males especially) go thru; a fact based and thoughtful analysis of the situation. Since you are very capable of thoughtful analysis, I’m confounded by your attack on TR and continued attacks on Larchmonter445 or your ridicule of an individual very likely to suffer from schizophrenia.
In your posting you quite eloquently state the following:
“Neoliberal bankster twits, evo folks who haven’t a clue what Darwin really said and keep trying to justify their own needs, and Ayn Rand permanent adolescents all love this stuff of course, but once again, myth is not reality and concensus, especially among the ignorant, equals not fact.”
Well said! It shows that you’re an independent thinker that can see thru the BS (especially the fraud of Ayn Rand and the current fashion of using an amateurish understanding of the very flawed theory evolutionary to justify theft, murder, force and fraud).
Since you don’t have the excuse of being stupid, then: How can you laugh at an apparent/possible victim of schizophrenia (Suspicious-of-Saker)? You claim to have a lot of expertise in the field of mental health, is schizophrenia something to laugh at? Having witnessed my niece’s schizophrenia (she hears voices, thinks she’s telepathic and is on some seriously powerful medication) and her brother’s paranoia/borderline schizophrenia (a failed artist, in the military reserves [because it pays and trained him on how to use a gun] that seriously acts on the nonsense that spews out of Alex Jones and seems to believe in every conspiracy theory ever concocted), I can only consider Schizophrenia to be a terrible tragedy.
Is mental retardation something to laugh at? Is paralysis funny? Is it appropriate to laugh at someone whose brain doesn’t function the same as us so-called ‘normal’ people? Where’s your compassion now? I.e. you too can behave like a chauvinist, except a chauvinist against those different from you or who hold views different from you. I can understand Saker laughing at the comment from Suspicious-of-Saker, since he was being attacked and he doesn’t claim to be and expert on mental health, his reaction is normal. What I can’t understand is how someone who claims to be knowledgeable in mental health, the DSM-XX etc., (i.e. You, Nora) laughing at someone who is exhibiting schizophrenic/paranoid behavior.
Where did your so-called expertise, experience, knowledge and compassion go?
You really need to grow up a little bit, I’ve noticed Larchmonter take the high road and not respond to you (just like the alpha-male concept described by TR), which makes you look petty and it makes him look, well… intelligent and in control: i.e. Alpha male. I don’t know what caused this feud, nor do I care, what I do know is that your attacks are akin to farting in public; i.e. getting offensive and off topic. This is in stark contrast to the compassion and apparently true caring that you show to victims of those brainwashed ‘true-Ukrainian’ swine nazi that have murdered so many people in Eastern Ukraine. Shouldn’t the victims of the clash Ukraine and it’s global ramifications be the real focus?
Could be a heavy duty piece of maskirovka, setting the stage for the September phase. Strelkov and Gubarev back in by the end of the month, further operations under the banner of communism, new Red and Black anti-Kiev armies, international political support from other than Russia . . . and the payoff for Russia = the end of the ‘Russia did it’ phase, as the conflict moves away from the border.
@Mohammed
You are right that we have to see the big picture. Ukraine is important now because its where the crucial anti-imperialist battle is happening.
People are dying in Nigeria,Pakistan,Afghanistan, Palestine,Syria,Iraq,Congo DRC, South Sudan etc as a direct result of the global imperial assault.
But Ukraine is a direct assault on Russia and Russia is the most powerful anti-imperial force on the planet today. If Russia falls, is hobbled, subverted or otherwise removed from the struggle against imperialism, those other areas will succumb in short order.
Its important that the global south, Africa,South America, BRICS etc support Russia in her struggle against the NATO backed Neo-NAZIs in Ukraine.
The NAF has provided a parade at Perevalsk in the Lugansk Republic. There are a couple of videos showing the action.
Part 1
Part 2
The armored vehicles are a little smoky, burning oil, but it all looks good fun. The ceasefire has produced one good outcome.
Anonymous 12:37
re: suspicious of “suspicious of Saker”
That sort of thing is not surprising given their leadership.
They are open for business……….
https://www.youtube.com/embed/zCAOUlF-nAg
@Nora,
Let’s see how the Scottish Play plays out….not long now…although we lack economic critical mass, but the imperial crowd are so spooked by this they have spent all day promoting the ‘no’ campaign on national TV…all channels, but still the ‘yes’ campaign moves ahead. Too close to call but it’s already starting to get petty and spiteful…oh, dear…the timing is exquisite..just in time for the Ukraine winter and Cameron and his Old Etonian Cronies could be fighting for their lives in a Tory bloodbath…couldn’t happen to finer chaps. Thank his heroine Thatcher for devolution…this is Karmic payback. It’s all blood and snot from here on in. Sorry it’s O.T but the pleasure here is palpable after all this unnecessary austerity shtick to bale out the bankers…
Annunaki,
Sadly Putin has problems with 6th coloumnists in Russia (Surkov, Kyrginan, etc).
Allthough oligarchs are nasty in ukraine,.. Also Russia has their share with rich pro-western oligarchs who will betray anyone for money.
Strelkov and many others were recently changed out with Surkov “puppets”.
Surkov, Kyrginan etc want the sanctions to end, and make richness by making deals with ukranian oligarchs.
So things are uncertain…
IF those 6th coloumnists were able, they would have flushed novorossia down the drain. (If it made their pockets fuller).
But most likely they will try to settle the war with making DPR/LPR part of ukraine or at best make them independent with promise of no more expansions.
Whatever the 6th coloumn are able to get away with. 6th coloumnists are traitors.
Anonymous (18.43)
In full agreement with you.
Exactly my POV as well.
Gubarev, Strelkov, Mozgovoy and Motorola hopefully are the first in a new breed of a tough, principled, unbreakable Russian man.
Sceptical-of-Saker,
Well, Saker is not using caps or OMG! all the time, so I don’t see an obvious female hiding here.
On the other hand, Asia Times Online is a somewhat shady publication (CIA and State Dept advertise on it, US propaganda gets published on a regular basis), so your point has some validity.
“BRICS are part of NWO” thesis substracts from your overall argument, IMHO.
All in all, aluminum foil may be useful, but not all the time.
The west is far from being omnipotent.
Vitaliy Dovgiy,
Omigosh. Thank you for that: not only are you absolutely right, but that is the best way yet to present this to folks who still haven’t a clue! Even the real dum-dums can understand that, bc it’s simple and concrete and, you know, they’ve heard of Scotland and kilts and bagpipes, it’s not just a word about someplace somewhere (even though a lot of ’em probably can’t find it on a map either…). But yes, what a wonderful way to really point things out!!! Thank you so much.
Larchmonter,
“Power makes borders, and Russia is the power in the region. Russia should make the borders as it needs them.”
How is this any different than what we/NATO are doing? You might want to think that through a little bit more. The folks you claim to admire most in the Donbass certainly don’t see it that way and neither, judging by both his words and actions thus far, does Putin.
MK Ngoyo,
Your words are very wise indeed.
Im not really sure, if someone else already posted this video or if Saker himself is aware of that, but for whoever will see my comment in this long thread i would reccomend you to watch it (btw gratz saker for your blog which si becomming more popular every single day I can imagine), in this link there is a video on youtube from 108Morris108 who is debating with Joaqin Flores (who in my opinion is quite smart individual) and the topic is that there was never been a ceasfire to begin with and that all of it is just a mis/disinformation.
Please everyone who is interested watch this fairly short video and write what you think about it. I would like Saker to give an opinion as well but im certain that he is quite busy. :)
Anyway, have a nice day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QWU0BhaGrw&list=UUweyNwo4cZM5gsIpuG4Zlew
” If the ATO had really lost in excess of 10,000 killed and wounded, Ukraine’s war effort would have collapsed and Ukraine would now be awash in revolution.”
Dear Anonymous,
Ukraine coup gov (with the volunteer batallions) have not lost 10.000.
They have lost close to 40.000!.
KIA, WIA, deserted, etc.
And officially about 2600 civilians are killed. (Number of civilians killed are hogwash, the real numbers are most likely alot higher).
With over 1.000.000 refugees now, noone is able to keep track of whom has been killed, mystically disapeared, etc.
Many people have dissapeared from Slavyansk. (Some gruesome stories, lets hope not true).
http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Ukrainian_Armed_Forces
Battleworthy units
As of September 5th there are no known battleworthy units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
Almost all the experienced ukr units are destroyed. Almost only newbies/unexperienced units left.
Which has litle combat experience, and bound to do more rookie mistakes, and lack the experience and knowledge of dealing with naf.
And ukraine has lost aprox 80 aircrafts (aprox 22 helicopters, a number of drones, alot of bombers(su) and firefighters).
Naf captured 1 su-25 and 1 drone.
Captured over1000 military vehicles (mostly apc, trucks etc, but also a few hundred tanks).
On average it seems like naf captures 20-30% of all the enemy vehicles. (Maybe up to 40% when including repaired ones) (Rest gets destroyed).
So yes ukraine army has lost! But they are still big numbers, so still not rolled over.
And with 6th Coloumnists in Russia, naf may get f’ed over. (Otherwise ukr coup gov will fall within end of winter).
Meanwhile, this may sound snarky but really isn’t; instead, it’s another very serious effect of what’s going on, and one likely to have a significant impact on the entire region this winter. With Mariupol basically out of business at this point, Odessa looks to be the only available harbor for any grain exports from a country that has always been The Breadbasket of Europe and this year was to have been the world’s No. 3 corn exporter and No. 6 wheat exporter.
http://www.producer.com/daily/map-of-ukraines-wheat-producing-districts/
Instead, it looks like they’ll be importing a lot of wheat, and rice (!) from Krim, at higher-than-usual prices too.
Bc, for obvious reasons, the grain in Ukraine may be mainly down the drain.
And even in places where it’s growing undisturbed, who’s going to harvest, process and ship it? So people may not just freeze in the dark, they may end up pretty damned hungry too. Again. God, what a vicious cycle — and it just seems to feed on itself.
Nora
Thanks so much for the information about alpha males and wolves. The first research was done on wolves in captivity in zoos! It’s like the tragedy of the commons bullshit. People lived for centuries without overgrazing the land. It was when the rich wanted to start enclosures in England that they set their cattle loose on the commons and messed up the system – same old story.
Another myth is Russian migration. It would be good if people sent in other myths that have been or ought to be debunked.
@MK Ngoyo said: But Ukraine is a direct assault on Russia and Russia is the most powerful anti-imperial force on the planet today. If Russia falls, is hobbled, subverted or otherwise removed from the struggle against imperialism, those other areas will succumb in short order.
Dearest MK,
From Day One, I am been saying that both Obama and Putin are in cahoots to save the Empire from sudden collapse and the USD ($) hegemony from thud when hitting the bottom. The Empire should have a soft landing which is in the interest of the Whole Wide World.
To compensate Putin, he has been given Crimea on a Silver Platter, which he was leasing from Ukraine with uncertainty. According to Zbigniew Brzezinski if you want to deny Russia the “Super Power” status, is it deny it Crimea.
Not only that, Putin wanted United Federalized (decentralized) Ukraine, he is getting that too. After a very long while, after the two or three broken cease fires, the Ukraine will become as per Putin’s wishes. Then the offer to financially bailing out Ukraine based on the premisses that Crimea legally belongs to us.
The rest is hot air and mostly illusions throughout the World, including ISIS. I don’t think that Putin has got his eyes off the ball (universe) due to Ukraine.
Saker should do the same, and he will find that both Obama and Putin are both cooperative with each other rather than combative.
The rest is called, “noises” in the communication for the masses.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Desperate and pathetic: Yahoo news reports “Putin is under Satan’s influence”
https://news.yahoo.com/putin-under-satans-influence-leader-kiev-orthodox-church-142555843.html
Why is no one talking about Crimea? Do we all have that short of a memory?
Best regards,
Mohamed
About Alpha Males:
There are experiences some women will never know (feel, live through, sensate). Just as we men would never know child-bearing and birth and nursing, for example.
Men know alphas when they meet them, serve with them, play sports with them, hunt with them, build with them.
Male bonding is not much different than pack animals. (some packs are actually led by alpha females, rare but not beyond the rules). A very famous female wolf pack leader tracked by scientists was killed by selfish hunters recently. Her name 832F, the most famous female alpha wolf.
Alpha Female Wolf
One of my best friends was one of America’s greatest in Naval aviation. He recently died. I would document his salient life moments, but it is beyond some folks’ ideological skew.
He was pure alpha. Anyone who ever met him knew it. All his officers knew it. All his wingmen, flights and squadrons knew it. One look in his eyes and you know it. Physical signals emanate from men who are alpha.They are superior from youth. It is a dynamism and psychology.
Today, in a world of wusses, feminized males and ideologically tampered gender reengineering, some think nature is passé.
Perhaps, Stelkov was Alpha. Perhaps, Brain or Devil are. I read about Mongoose, and he certainly was from what one can tell at this distance.
It is verified in person, so I can’t swear about those other than the ones I’ve know.
But having done aileron rolls in co-pilot’s seat with my friend and simulated bombing runs, and verified all the stories of his life from childhood through his missions in F-100’s and A-4’s and F-14’s, I know whereof I speak. (I had the privilege of researching his life for the official biography, some of which I wrote, so I had access to Admirals and Generals who commanded him.)
{Call Sign: Killer RIP, Paul. Fly fast and low.}
@ the Putin-bashers and Putin=traitor crowd
You sound like generals of the couch-potato sort with oh-so-definite solutions and perfect knowledge of what to – and all of this in a situation which is an extremely murky mix of politics, economics and warfare where even Clausewitz or Sun-Tzu would hesitate to tread. So far VVP’s responses have been superb, superbly timed and without treachery and he has somehow managed to support Novorussia without being dragged into a larger war despite the all-out efforts of the Empire of Lies. So give him a chance will you – this is not a videogame.
In the mean time, while the real war is going on there, the war here is between the pessimists and the optimists, with latest addition of “saker is a woman” for comic relief, LOL.
Confirmed losses of Kiev Air Force (source Denis Seleznev a military expert from Melitopol).
С начала АТО украинской стороной подтверждено уничтожение:
– 13 штурмовиков Су-25;
(13 close air support Su-25)
– 7 боевых вертолетов Ми-24;
(7 Mi-24 attack helicopters)
– 5 многоцелевых вертолетов Ми-8;
(5 Mi-8 transport helicopters)
– 2 фронтовых бомбардировщика Су-24;
(2 Su-24 bombers)
– 2 истребителя МиГ-29;
(2 MiG-29 interceptors)
– 1 разведывательный самолет Ан-30;
(1 reconnaissance An-30)
– 1 военно-транспортный самолет Ил-76МД;
(1 Il-76MD transport aircraft)
– 1 военно-транспортный самолет Ан-26;
(1 An-26 transport aircraft)
– 1 БПЛА Ту-143 «Рейс».
(1 Tu-143 reconnaissance drone)
Всего 33 самолета и вертолета.
(Total 33 A/C)
Anon 21:25, it does not take a military expert to count shot downed airplanes;)
Ive personnaly counted over 40 before july was over. (Video and pictures).
The number of shot down before 17.july was aprox 50.
And was aprox 70 for 1 week ago. And around 5-6 aircraft got shot down in just a few days in attempts to relieve/open the encirclements/boilers.
(Ps i stopped tracking after july, since i dont have time for it anymore). But yes, alot more then 33 aircrafts!. Aprox 80 has been shot down, including a mig.
But atleast then they confirm 33;)
If was to judge by their confirmed dead soldiers (under 1000) during this war, then it would been over 400 aircrafts shot down;)
That would have been sweet though…
Porky is left humiliated….by U.S. and other NATO members.
Yesterday in one of my comments I linked to a RIA report that read: in an interview with the BBC Hardtalk, Porky said NATO members offered to deliver to Kiev military aid –precision-guided weapons BUT that he refused to name the countries
“MOSCOW, September 6 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko refused to name the NATO countries that had offered Kiev to deliver precision-guided weapons in his interview with the BBC on Saturday. When asked whether it was true that “some NATO members promised you precision-guided weapons,” Poroshenko said, “Yes,” confirming his earlier statement during the NATO summit in Wales. ”This is confidential information,” Poroshenko said when asked to name the countries.
This morning up-thread I had this:
NATO members Military Aid for Ukraine is revealed” Agreements were reached at the NATO summit on Western military advisers and the delivery of modern weapons from the United States, France, Italy, Poland and Norway, Yuri Lutsenko said
Now cue the Denials:
U.S. denies it made any offer
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/748502
So did Norway and Poland
Oh my. Who do we believe?
R: None of these liars. Weapons will be given under the blanket of darkness
~ ~ ~
AM
No serious effort was put into the writing of the ceasefire document and I expect that since it’s been broken, all aspects of it are now null and void. Therefore I don’t consider it to be a sellout on the part of Putin (but I can’t offer any alternative theories either).
If they truly wanted peace they might have followed some of the guidelines of the The Ceasefire Drafters Handbook (really):
http://publicinternationallawandpolicygroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/PILPG-Ceasefire-Drafters-Handbook-Including-Template-Ceasefire-Agreement.pdf
@Where-Wolf said: But repeating something literally 100 times, without proof and in most cases without any argument to back it up is borderline pathological. It is evidence of just what I stated about Mohamed — he is desperately trying to make reality fit into his own narrow religious and mythological perspective.
Dearest Where-Wolf,
From Day One, I am against the Empire, but when it comes to USA and the people of USA, I thoroughly love them.
My wife of almost 40 years is from USA, my children are half breed and I am almost an American with my love of Rock & Roll music, with a touch of Blues and Jazz.
I wish I can write more on politics, but I like my head on my shoulders. It looks very beautiful there. I used to call Obama a War-Monger. But since the inception of his second term, I see he has taken a new turn with his new team. Residing in the Middle East and visiting news sources besides MSM, things look different. I even believe that Kerry and Hagel at his side, have brought both McCain and Graham to the same side too. What made the change:
1. On a yearly basis Netanyahu lecturing Obama in the White House like a underling.
2. Netanyahu going as far as holding the nomination of Hagel.
3. Netanyahu interfering in 2012 Presidential Elections.
4. Blow back in Libya.
5. Empire is bankrupt.
6. USD ($) is going to take a dive in a bottomless pit.
7. More, and more.
I believe if Saker takes his eyes off the Ukraine and concentrate on the Whole World, especially in the Middle East, he will see some different pattern emerging.
Putin is an excellent human being, but Putin’s first priorities are mother Russia, and no one can blame him for that.
I believe that sarin gas in Syria was a false flags cooperation between Obama and Putin being in cahoots. That all I can say about it and no more. Saker should dig into it.
Imagine, Bandar Bush going to Russia, and threatening Putin right in his own country Russia.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
@Where-Wolf: J’accuse Mohamed. You want events to transpire according to your programmed religious beliefs and you’re prepared to undermine anyone who might get in the way, Putin especially.
Use your knowledge of Islam to enhance our understanding. You have this power Mohamed. Why not use it instead of always working towards an agenda that leaves us weak and powerless to confront the anti-Christ that is already here?
Dear Where-Wolf,
There are no programmed religious beliefs. Neither I nor Islam is against Putin. He is an excellent leader, who first priority is towards mother Russia.
I love Christianity. My wife was a WASP, but now she is a Muslim. My mom and dad were indebted to American Christian Missionaries, and they never let us children ever to forget that.
Holy Quran says, that the closer to Muslims are Christians. There are two things that I don’t like in Christianity:
1. Devil, Lucifer, Anti-Christ, Constant Wars.
2. Everyone trying to interrupt the Prophecies and then trying to Help God. To me it is a Ticking Time Bomb, tic, toc, tick, tock …. The Christian Zionists are good example of this Ticking Time Bomb.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
To Nora,
It is what I meant, I am sorry if I was not clear. Real alpha males/dominant men are protective of their herd, attentive, quiet etc. Absolutely not the kind of man you see described everywhere, but it seems that many Americans still see things like that.
Hence part of the Putin-bashing, which see his calmness, his patience, his prudence, his carefulness, as weakness, what a mistake! It is exactly the opposite. The kind of guy you NEVER oppose whatever the circumstances, unless you are a delta- (wannabe dominant without the characteristics) or omega- (out of the game and sometimes wannabe too) male, but then you may expect a very severe correction. This is what seems to happen with NATO…
Well, NATO having become “destructive of its ends” (at least its official ones, protecting its members), “it is the right of people to alter or to abolish it”, and I think nobody else than Putin has the least chance of achieving it, while Putin has very high chances; let us only hope it will make as few dead as possible.
TR
To Nora,
It is what I meant, I am sorry if I was not clear. Real alpha males/dominant men are protective of their herd, attentive, quiet etc. Absolutely not the kind of man you see described everywhere, but it seems that many Americans still see things like that.
Hence part of the Putin-bashing, which see his calmness, his patience, his prudence, his carefulness, as weakness, what a mistake! It is exactly the opposite. The kind of guy you NEVER oppose whatever the circumstances, unless you are a delta- (wannabe dominant without the characteristics) or omega- (out of the game and sometimes wannabe too) male, but then you may expect a very severe correction. This is what seems to happen with NATO…
Well, NATO having become “destructive of its ends” (at least its official ones, protecting its members), “it is the right of people to alter or to abolish it”, and I think nobody else than Putin has the least chance of achieving it, while Putin has very high chances; let us only hope it will make as few dead as possible.
TR
TR your definition of an Alpha-Male as it has become to be understood in common culture is exactly the correct one, not the idiotic stereotypical caricature portrayed by Hollywood and apparently misconstrued by Nora as being the one you referred to.
I have to agree to with Larchmonter that perhaps most females, such as Nora, don’t understand this right away because it’s outside of their experience base, it’s something men understand: Putin is a classic alpha-male (in the cultural sense, not the zoological sense); i.e. “walks softly but carries a big stick”, action-oriented, quiet, determined and (apparently) caring (of his people). Not some bombastic caricature stereotype flogged by loud attention-seeking hypocritical feminists and other sexist conditioned man-haters.
And Bok-Tak, you’re quite correct, feminism and the resultant contempt for women reaction in men is a deliberate ‘divide-and-paralyze’ tactic created by the scum that have been social-engineering the West over the last 80 years. Just as the latest incarnation of this tactic is now being foisted via the gay-rights/homophobia paradigm being flogged by those the same elitists; breakdown all the fundamental bonds of society, family and community and what results is a distracted, paralyzed, divided population more interested in attacking each other than dealing with the criminals that are hollowing out everyone’s accumulated wealth and ongoing earnings.
My take on the ceasefire agreement is that is not genuine. Most likely, both sides signed without intending to honor the terms and without expecting the other to adhere to the agreement.
For Poroshenko, the ceasfire represents a much needed military, political and public relations respite. The truce gave him a few days to regroup his scattered troops as well as time and manueverability to appease the angry Ukrainian war party. The ceasefire terms help Poroshenko save face with the Ukrainian public too, as the wording and purport of the agreement is nearly identifical to what Kiev attempted to force on the rebels back in June.
Putin is probably using the truce as a diplomatic and public relations feint in his dealings with the West. It looks like a brilliant feint, too. Consider the timing: with Western leaders and media now inflammed by the rout of the Ukrainian army, Putin is softening the West’s Russophobic backlash by using the truce to portray himself as a peacemaker of sorts. Putin knows that the truce is a straw man agreement, as its terms cannot be enforced. Thus, by signing the agreement, Moscow varnishes its image a bit in the Western press while simultaneously continuing to take practical steps to ensure that Novorossiya is prepared to repel Kiev’s upcoming assaults.
The Kremlin is winning politically, diplomatically, and militarily by blending several games into one. One the ground in Donbass, it’s winning a boxing match in brutal style. In the arena of rhetoric and diplomacy, Putin is mixing poker and chess, in one way or another, to keep Washington and Brussells at bay.
GW
I believe we should judge the truce on more than just how long it holds. You see often that conflicts go through several truces before one holds. Those previous truces may not be useless: even failed truces cause discussions at both sides on their goals and the need to keep fighting.
In Kiev we see now a fissure arising between people like Poroshenko who believe that negotiations should at least get a chance and people like Yatsenyuk and Tyahnybok who just want to keep fighting.
On the rebel side things are less clear as nobody seems to believe the truce will hold.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-crisis-fighting-reported-near-donetsk-airport-1410084880?mod=World_newsreel_1
Alexander Zakharchenko, leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, also suggested peace talks with Kiev were proceeding, despite what he described as violations of the cease-fire by Ukrainian forces.
[]
But the rebel leader said talks with Ukrainian officials in the Belarusian capital of Minsk were proceeding.
“They have started to take us seriously as a party in this conflict, and they’ve started to sit down at the negotiation table with us,” Mr. Zakharchenko said. He said the sides had agreed upon some sort of special status for the rebel republics and said the details would depend “on how we negotiate.” He told a separate Russian news outlet that the rebel delegation expected to return for a new round of talks in about a week.
>> Sounds like things are moving. However – a week sounds like eternity with such a fragile truce.
Remember: “they must always be seen to be losing . . . it must appear as a people’s revolution”
Such has been the case from the beginning, and yet, they have won. And the people’s revolution is real, even with the secret war.
All support to Novorossia and the Russian Federation.
You know, the Western narrative is just so pathetic. They cannot bring themselves to assign any agency to the NAF – they must portray ‘pro-Russian rebels’ as ‘tools of Putin’, ‘Russia’, etc. Never a serious examination of what Russian nationalism is all about, what are the implications of the unfinished business of the Soviet Union, the hanging matters of World War II . . . much less any admission of the flawed, neoliberal capitalist construct. Well, at least they finally had to admit there are in fact Nazis in Ukraine. Azov ‘defending’ Mariupol is making it impossible not too. But what we are seeing, ladies and gentleman, is raw, naked, unalloyed fear. The Yankees and the European traitors are scared. Scared of the future. Scared of peace. Scared of poverty. Scared of having to deal with other nations and peoples as equals. Scared of people who are a little better than they are, people who care about other people more than money, people who actually try to live up to their ideals.
All support to the NAF, burn the Nazis in Ukraine, let’s break the EU, NATO and the US down and show them what it’s really all about. Your agency is not determined by the Western press – but acknowledge it they will, in a matter of time. You are known internationally as freedom fighters. Even the cowards and the traitors here in America can sense it.