This is the full text of the only email I got from a Bosnian-Muslim in reaction to my recent interview with Nebojsa Malic: (full text, not excerpt)
I just wish upon you and female members of your family same “gentle” treatment we Bosnians got from your genocidal Serbian thugs, no more and no less.
And yes, we are Bosnians regardless of what you or your genocidal buddies say!
And you claim that you can think and understand number of languages, what a joke!
My reply was: (full text again)
Dear xxxxx,Thank you for your email. Would you be interested in post a rebuttal to Nebojsa Malic’s article? If yes, I will gladly publish it. Please let me know.
Many thanks and kind regards,
The Saker
I never heard from this person again.
Which just proves to me that the topic of the war in Bosnia is still seen by many Bosnian-Muslims as a dogma which cannot be discussed and that any deviation from the official narrative is a sacrilegious heresy for which the author should be hated and ostracized.
Too bad. Hysterics and hatred are not convincing arguments, nor are they helpful for the understanding of a complex issue.
I would say that the Bosnian-Muslims are by far the biggest losers of the war in Bosnia. Sure, for the time being, they have the protection (of sorts) of the EU and Uncle Sam. But for how long? The Bosnian-Croats have their back covered by Croatia. The Bosnian-Serbs have their back (more or less) covered by Serbia (and with time this coverage will get better). Who has the back of the Bosnian-Muslims? Albania? Kosovo? Camp Bondsteel? The Saudis?
A civil war cannot be won, but it can be lost and the least one should do is to learn from mistakes and understand the mechanisms which brought it about. I am shocked by how little serious “lessons learned” exercises the Muslim world has made after the Bosnian debacle.
Hopefully, this will change with time.
In the meantime, my offer stands: if a Bosnian-Croat or Bosnian-Muslim wants to offer his reply to the question I submitted to Malic, and if this reply is at least minimally coherent and not just a long stream of insults, I will *gladly* publish it here.
The Saker
What is it with the permanently aggrieved Bosnian muslims?
” Who has the back of the Bosnian-Muslims?”
Turkey has their back. Did you forget the Neo-ottoman dream of Erdogan.
Find it on http://www.youtube.tr (/sarc)
@Anonymous: Turkey has their back.
If you were Bosnian-Muslim you really would trust your former colonial masters to have your back? I sure would not, not any more than an Algerian should trust the French or an Indian the British. Yes, the Turks will *use* the Bosnian-Muslims just like the US did – as cannon fodder – but that is hardly something I would aspire to.
I would argue that all those who pushed the Bosnian-Muslims into a conflict which they could never win and in which they would lose the most are most definitely not their friends.
My 2cts. Cheers,
The Saker
Sadly, ‘Bosniaks’ don’t see Turkey as their former colonial masters but as
kin and supporters.
Alija Izetbegovic’s son + Erdogan + their wives
http://www.bosnjaci.net/foto/Erdogan_Bakir_Sabin_na_mezaru_Alije.jpg
You yourself said, Saker, that Muslims had special privileges under Ottoman rule. That’s what ‘Bosniaks’ aspire to today as well.
Don’t get me wrong. I agree with your writing, but you have to see things from the perspective of the ‘Bosniaks’.
They are using Turkey’s support to further their own agendas (‘grab more
land-money-power). How possibly can you believe they won’t make a try for it???
Stop being idealistic and start being more (much more) realistic.
Here is something I wrote in 2012, commenting on the 20th anniversary of the war. Perhaps it will help explain the “permanently aggrieved”:
“…in Bosnia itself, while some people are trying to mind their own business, work for a living and raise their children right, an entire media/government apparatus has a vested interest in keeping things firmly stuck in 1992. As long as the war continues, mentally if not actually, they have power and the privilege that comes with it. So they keep their own people trapped in a cruel spasm of hatred, fear and suffering – feeding on it, thriving while everything around them rots away.”
(see here)
Nebojsa “Gray Falcon” Malic
@Anonymous:Stop being idealistic and start being more (much more) realistic.
I try my best to be both, but if I have to chose I will always pick idealism over realism, with no apologies or hesitation whatsoever :-)
Kind regards,
The Saker
Continued:
Previously I stated
“Stop being idealistic and start being more (much more) realistic.”
I want to elaborate a bit.
I analyzed you. Yes, you Saker.
You grew up during the Cold war.
Russia’s (Soviet) main enemy was the USA. That’s the world view that stuck with you. Today you see the USA boogie-man in all (bad) things happening to Russia. That’s understandable, but ultimately wrong.
You state that the AngloZionist Empire is causing all the mess in Ukraine, and that the EU (Germany) are only a “submissive US protectorate with no policy or opinion of its own”. Is this true?
I don’t agree.
If it was true, would the EU put a ban on Israel products? How can the protectorate throw the real boss under the bus? Those things never happen.
I see things this way: the USA is like a drug dealer. It sees what other countries crave for and (if that goal is aligned with USAs goals) pushes them into that direction.
I will state 2 examples below, but before I do that, I want to stress that the real problem is not in the ‘drug dealer’ but in the ‘drug addict’. If there is no addiction, the dealer would be powerless.
The examples:
#1
dealer: USA
dealer’s goal: Stop Gazprom
addict: Turkey
addict’s goal: Neo-ottoman dreams
The USA promises fulfillment of Turkey’s dreams only if they go to war and take Syria.
#2
dealer: USA
dealer’s goal: Stop the Euroasian Project
addict: EU (Germany)
addict’s goal: more Lebensraum* in Ukraine, new (debt) Serfs, cheap work force, pushing Russia on Europe’s brink
The USA promises fulfillment of EU/Germany’s dreams only if install a Nazi-puppet government in Ukraine.
* http://tarpley.net/metaphysical-doubts-concerning-the-existence-of-modern-ukraine-a-1918-creation-of-the-german-general-staff/
And I repeat: the real problem is not in the ‘drug dealer’ but in the ‘drug addict’. If there is no addiction, the dealer would be powerless!
—-
Ok, another question. Why do the Germans want an EU army and to dissolve NATO (not YET really vocal about the second point, but give it time)?
Maybe the goal is to throw off the American chains and be more independent.
But what happens afterwards?
Peace & happiness. HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY?
Only a naive person can believe this.
You will have the EU Reich 4.0.
This scenario is even more dangerous.
Remember the words of your beloved
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: America and Russia are natural allies. And those 2 countries certainly never had a ‘hot’ war.
But Germany and Russia?
Don’t be fooled that Germany is reformed (from its Nazi days) or a lasting true friend to Russia. It is not. And never can or will be.
Yes, today’s rhetoric is we need Russia for trade blah blah blah. Which is true.
But their real “addiction” (more Lebensraum/resources) never changed nor will ever change!!!!
@Anonymous: would the EU put a ban on Israel products? How can the protectorate throw the real boss under the bus? Those things never happen.
First, the Empire is not Israel, the Empire is an AngloZionist power configuration which *uses* Israel. It is one thing to put sanctions on Israel and quite another to slap them on the USA.
Second, these sanctions do very little financial damage to Israel. As for its public image, the Israeli elites know that they are the most hated country on the planet. They couldn’t care less.
Third, there is a European public opinion out there, and some concessions, especially symbolic ones, must be made to it. That hardly proves anything.
Finally, Uncle Sam does not really give a shit about EU sanctions on Israel and if he did, he could roar once at the EU leadership and they would all fall in line.
Funny, but I think that I am much more of a realist then you are, LOL!
Cheers,
The Saker
Saker Please don’t stop being idealistic. It’s the “realists” that have the world in this mess right now. We need more “idealists” who can see past racial, religious and ethnic differences to realize that we have one destiny.
@Anonymous:Saker Please don’t stop being idealistic
LOL! You got it! (-: and since I can’t help it anyway, I might as well accept it :-)
Thanks a lot!
The Saker
Nebojsa Malic 14:33 You know, I’d been pondering today how easily led people are by their hatreds and fears (which of course are not unrelated) and now I read your words, and see agaub the horrible images of that horrible war — we set your part of the world on fire and twenty years later don’t even have to fan the flames. It’s happening here too of course, been going on since Reconstruction was brought to a halt, and for absolutely the same set of reasons. Not that that’s any consolation. And thank you for that interview, btw: I’m finally feeling like I’m beginning to understand.
aargh! “again”, not “agaub”
“and quite another to slap them on the USA”
What are the newly announced Yuan trade deals (between Germany and China) but a slap on USA’s face?
“Ja. Bosnia ist das Land des Hasses”
Ivo Andric (Nobelpris 1961)
http://www.ejnar.se/balkan
Its not about Bosniaks and other slavic people. Slavic people and Muslims have a long history, dating back at least a 1000 years and most slavs and Muslims live in peace. Usmani (Ottoman) Turks and Serbs may not always had good relations but that is just one small peace of a pie.
The whole issue was to destroy Yugoslavia and control its money supply, by any means. Many people equated Bosnians as Turks and there are extremists who committed horrible crimes against the Muslims and vice versa, Muslims did get slaughtered more by numbers but not all the Serbs are to be blamed.
Today Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia are suffering just as Albania, Slovenia. Their economies in shambles and people forced to beg and prostitute themselves, rampant corruption and extremists who did horrible things are mostly living in Western countries.
As for having support…we the ordinary people of the world should have each others’ back.
As for the Muslims, currently the only financial system that does not predicate interest and fractional reserve banking is Islamic.
Make no mistakes, for our faith Muslims are fighting and will fight and die if we have to as our faith dictates no interest charging or payment.
Christians believe that and any decent human being realizes the perils of usury. We all need each other and the common man has to come together in order to eliminate this evil from our planet and it will happen but with all of us working as one.
Peace to all and I hope Putin remains steadfast. He needs our help.
Saladin Khan
Saker:
apologies for the off topic
But, have you seen this?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/09/pro-kremlin-viral-video-seeks-to-portray-fictious-tale-war-with-ukraine/
here is the video on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u3qoVvep_Y
It ‘feels’ like a commercial of some sort, but, that is just my perception of it all
If you can clarify this I would love to know?
Thanks- will check back in later :)
@Penny: the video is pretty much what the Fox article says: a propaganda commercial whose key message is: “our grandfathers did not finish these Fascists off, now we have to finish the job”. It’s your basic counter-propaganda but this time from the pro-Russian side (the official Ukie TV channels are densely packed with such videos – and reports of huge Russian armor concentrations – but that is not something Fox notices.
Cheers,
The Saker
What is it with the permanently aggrieved Bosnian muslims?
Nora said righthly: how easily led people are by their hatreds and fears.
Muslims, and not only Bosniaks, have been worked in a frenzy of “victimization by the West” to have them ready to take arms on that side of the fabricated “Clash of civilizations”.
WizOz
The US supported the Islamic extremist Izetbegovic and used him as the dynamite to blow the country apart. He actually represented a minority of the Muslims. Fikret Abdic, who stepped aside, was more popular and was a moderate person who supported Yugoslavism, loyalty to country rather than to religious identity. Muslim Abdic soldiers fought with the Serb Bosnian Army against the Izetbegovic faction. Izetbegovic stood for a Muslim state, a theocracy whereby non-Muslims would be hounded to convert or else be driven out, and secular Muslims pressured to knuckle under to tighter Islamic control. No modern person could consent to that so war resulted. The USA found a use for Izetbegovic. He was just a tool; nobody in Washington cares a whit about so-called Bosniaks or anybody else. It all just brought about ruin for people of the area.
Nora – thank you, that was precisely my point.
Pete – Izetbegovic believed he was using the Americans. American gov’t believed the other way around. But yes, that’s pretty much what I said in the original interview.
Who has the back of the Bosnian-Muslims? Albania? Kosovo? Camp Bondsteel? The Saudis?
America is the number one.
Turkey, Saudi Arabia are notnihg without America.
Pete, the Real Evil Empire always seeks out the worst in target countries to become their ‘Chosen Ones’, because the worst are the type who most closely resemble the monsters who rule in Mordor on the Potomac. Look at ’em. The Shah, Saddam in his salad days, Sadat, Mubarrak, al-Sisi, Zia ul-Haq, Osama bin Laden, the Saudi primitives, Kagame, Musuveni, Savimbi, Mobutu, Suharto, Pinochet, Videla, d’Aubusson- the names and scores more, trip off the tongue. The millions butchered, tortured, ‘disappeared’, starved, are, of course, invisible to the trained running-dogs of the Western MSM, ‘unworthy victims’ as Chomsky called them.
Mulga Mumblebrain,
Here is my list of countries we have, erm, messed with. 105 and counting; any additions would be, well, appreciated is not exactly the right word…
Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Argentina, Australia, Azerbaijan, Australia, Bahrain, Belarus, Bolivia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Brunei, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Central African Republic, Chile, China, Colombia, Congo,
Costa Rica, Croatia, Cuba, Czech Republic, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea,
Estonia, Ethopia, France, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, N. Korea, S. Korea, Kuwait, Kyrgystan, Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Libya, Lithuania, Macedonia, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mexico, Moldova, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Panama, Pakistan, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Puerto Rico, Qatar, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Seychelles, Singapore, Slovakia, Somalia, South Africa, South Sudan, Spain, Sudan, Syria, Thailand, Trinidad-Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Yugoslavia, Zaire