Yesterday a Vucic-troll calling himself complained about my characterization of Vucic. I replied this to him. Today, I found this remarkable comment intercepted by the moderators:
A couple of things are particularly interesting here.
First, the reference to my “Russian genes” and to my “Asiatic race”. That is racism at its purest, of course. It also sounds exactly like what Ukronazis say about Russians (nb: they typically claim that the Ukies are true Slavs and Aryans whereas Russians are a non-Slavic non-Aryan mix of Tatars, Ugro-Finns and God only knows what else).
He sure sounds more like a frustrated Ustasha than a true Serbian patriot, does he not?
And, again, in terms of hatred and ideology, he sounds much more like a follower of Bandera than a true Serbian patriot.
Then the belief that “everybody hates” me “so much” which is simply an manifestation of the degree or rage those critical of Vucic elicit amongst Vucic supporters. Prostitutes don’t like to be called prostitutes. I get it.
I am personally deeply grateful to for making my case better than I ever could and for showing the true face of the supporters of Vucic and his “multi-vector” policy of prostitution.
is now banned, but he might try posting under another handle while his fellow-trolls will continue to speak about how evil Russians are and how Russians are guilty for all the cataclysms which befell the Serbian nation in the 20th century (or even before!). From now on, I will simply eject these folks from the comment section without even bothering to engage with them.
Kind regards
Andrei
П.П.Његош sounds like raving lunatic, not worth any attention. You did right thing.
I feel sorry for Russia surrounded by hypocrites trying to take advantage, choose, most want cheap gas moldavia, Serbia, germany, polen, Ukraina, then betray, insult Russia. Turkey /Erdogan another ready to backstabb at any moment. How does Russia/Putin manages to not vomit?
How does Russia/Putin manages to not vomit?
Because they don’t care. Literally. All of the EU is run by prostitutes (with the possible exception of Orban) so one hooker more or less in the EU brothel makes no difference to Russia. Also, Russian remember the Eltsin years and they remember when Russia was ruled by a US-run prostitute, so they know that this can happen to any nation. As Dostoevsky once wrote “you should not judge a nation by how low it can sink, but by how high it can soar”. So we don’t take that personally: it is just a phase, and that too shall pass, God willing.
Last, but not least, Russians do not conflate real Serbian patriots with Vucic-trolls.
We just hope that the Serbian people will be able to clean their house and become sovereign again.
Until that happens, Russians will be polite and generally supportive of pretty much any regime in power in Serbia, even while the are acutely aware of its true nature.
Thank you Saker for your explanation. King regards.
Where is Serbia located, in which environment, geographically and politically, which historical, economic references continue to shape this state, which it cannot o.w. avoid, etc., etc..
Thus, some “vectors” are obvious, which inevitably determine Serbian politics.
This is a completely different situation from those of Belarus or Kazakhstan.
Moreover, international politics is like a schoolyard: people like to rally around strength and power – and even if this is eroding, degenerating more and more into a semblance of previous greatness, a certain inertia follows from the aura of former splendor …
And the RF has no interest at all to slip into the shoes of the USA or to take over the historical role of Europe (China probably not either).
Yeah, this story of “multi-vectors” might be some “dirty word” to some, but as a Serb and as a guy that sees Vučić as tall narcissistic psycho — who “might achieve” something because of that trait, happened before — there is this deep narative in Serbian history and collective emotion that we were always “east to the west and west to the east”… as those words were first attached with St. Sava, Archbishop and monk that bought autocephaly to Serbian Orthodox Church from ERE and son from Nemanjić dynasty.
Just my 2 cents. Also, yeah that guy sounds like an absolute imbecile (aka “pro-troll for sandwitches”).
All the best!
Here’s my two cents: Style and wording are completely different from anything I read from Serbs or Montenegrins.
Also chosen insults also feels foreign.
It is possible that you are being played for quite sometime. Just saying, I’m sure you are aware of that.
Yeah, I got the same feeling too. Maybe he/she/it is a Ukie operator working for NATO PSYOPs.
But if so, then it shows that NATO PSYOPs are told to:
1) defend Vucic
2) try to turn Russians and Serbians against each other.
Thus making our own agenda quite simple: oppose them and work for the opposite result.
Andrei, do not bother with those kind of people among us, Serbs. Serbia is in peril situation, we are bought and sold for small change. Up is down, black is white, bonfire of slogan throwing and fire sale of people as workforce and our resources. We are advertised as cheap laborers for “Investors”, German, French, US, Chinese, doesn’t meter from where… I do not want to write in a great length but I do not remember a time with more of thick lies sold as a true, a time of greater madness and confusion among people. Sad, sad days, 20 to 30 years of solid lunacy.
do not bother with those kind of people among us, Serbs. Serbia is in peril situation, we are bought and sold for small change.
Absolutely no worries on this account. I know the Serbian people well and I know how much the West wants to destroy the Serbian identity. Hence the truly huge efforts made by western PSYOPs to push their agenda. In a way, that is a compliment for the Serbian people: the West must fear the rebirth of the Serbian national identity a lot if it makes such efforts to prevent it.
My personal guess and hope is that the “mental liberation” of Serbia will come from the RSK just like the LDNR did a lot of impact the Russian national identity.
Finally, I believe that both the Empire and the USA are already dead, even if they still have a lot of momentum. But Camp Bondsteel with disappear sooner or later, and both Kosovo and Bosnia will be liberated, the former by the Serbian armed forces and the latter by the courage of persistence of the people of the RSK.
Then the unity of the Serbian nation shall be restored as the “SSSS” slogan correctly calls for.
Might be… Personally, I believe that liberation will come from central region, Šumadija, Pomoravlje, let’s say pre-Kumanovo Serbia, pre-1912 Serbia. That is the space from which first liberation movement in 1804 spring out. True, self-aware, with land beneath feet people.
You might be right. I have had more contacts with Serbs from the RSK than Serbs from the current Serbia. I hope that you are right, maybe the “mental liberation” will begin in the RSK and central Serbia at the same time in the same way the national identity of Russians has been strengthened by both the war in Chechnia and the events in Crimea and the LDNR.
Wherever it comes from, I keep my faith in the future liberation of the Serbian people.
Do You know that there is a trend of exaltation of collaborators from second world war in Serbia ? Since 2001.
How revolting ! So, collaboration is good and resisting the occupiers is bad ? Hell no ! For me, never, never and never ! Until Hell freezing is over, never ! Deserters are smart and good people and me and my comrades, veterans from 90’s are some stupid, infantile people, who wished to burn houses and rape women’s… That is the SitRep dear Andrei… Darkness is thickest just before the Dawn.
Do You know that there is a trend of exaltation of collaborators from second world war in Serbia ? Since 2001.
No, I was not aware of that. But it makes sense: the Empire has been whitewashing the III Reich and its allies for the sake of re-creating a united European front against Russia.
The way the US now openly supports the Nazis in Kiev (in spite of the US itself being an Israeli colony) tells you how much hatred (and fear!) they have for Russia.
For the Anglos the project is clear (and hardly new): a united West against Russia.
And if that means “adopting” Nazi SOBs then so be it since, after all, the Nazis WERE ALWAYS “our SOBs”.
Yap ! Every 80-120 years they gather together and march to the East … Never ending story.
This fellow Његош, adopted name of great poet, bishop of Orthodox Church…what for ?
These are the words of Његош:
O my True Faith, my poor, helpless orphan!
Ill-fated tribe! O how long will you sleep?
To be alone is not being at all,
loneliness brings only more suffering.
The devil’s might has surrounded us all.
If in the world somewhere we had brothers,
their sympathy would be the same as help.
Darkness now rules supreme over my head,
and the moon seems to be my only sun.[97]
But woe, where do I think I am going?
Ripen, young wheat and corn, into the grain!
Your harvest has arrived before its time.
I see precious offerings piled up high
at the altar of our Church and nation.
Wailing echoes I hear in the mountains.
We must uphold our honour and our name!
Let the struggle go on without respite.
Let it be what men thought could never be.
Let Hell devour, let Satan cut us down!
Flowers will sprout and grow in our graveyards
for some distant future generation.
———————————————————
United all, there’s enough work for all!
Your destiny it is to bear the Cross
of the fierce fight against brothers and foes!
The wreath’s heavy, but the fruit is so sweet!
Without death there is no resurrection.
Under a shroud of glory I see you
and our nation’s honour resurrected.[199]
I also see the altar turned eastward[200]
and a fragrant incense burning on it.
Die in glory, if die indeed you must!
Wounded honour inspires courageous hearts;
those hearts cannot tolerate such illness.[201]
The altar by pagans desecrated
will once again receive the grace of God.
For all who want to read/know his poetry https://www.rastko.rs/knjizevnost/umetnicka/njegos/mountain_wreath.html
Very, very beautiful!
Thank you for posting this
Something off point.
Are You related to this Раевский ?
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9,_%D0%9D%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B9_%D0%9D%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87_(1839)
Church built by his mother is near my home.
Since we are exceeding the WordPress “reply” option I will reply here, under your question. Yes, I am pretty sure that he is from the same family as I, but I am not a direct descendant of him. I have had several ancestors who fought against the Ottomans, both in Bulgaria and in Serbia. But King Alexander more than repaid any debts Serbia might have had towards Russia when he welcomed the large Russian emigration following the Bolshevik revolution. Hence my mother was born near Belgrade, in Topcider. One member of my family has also married Serb lady in Buenos-Aires, and she became my Godmother :-)
Cheers
Andrei
“The Empire has been whitewashing the III Reich…”. Actually, the rabbit hole goes deeper then that. After the WWII, the U.S. government so admired the Nazi regime that following the second World War, it secretly recruited Hitler’s employees, adopted his protocols, embraced his mindset about law and order, implemented his tactics in incremental steps, and began to lay the foundations for the rise of the Fourth Reich.
With every passing day, the United States government borrows yet another leaf from Nazi Germany’s playbook: Secret police. Secret courts. Secret government agencies. Surveillance. Censorship. Intimidation. Harassment. Torture. Brutality. Widespread corruption. Entrapment. Indoctrination. Indefinite detention.
So, of we look closer, the writing is on the wall – The Empire is the IV Reich. The Center is still Rome. Jesuits built DC not the other way around. And Catholics and Ashkenazim (who hate Russia) run the “light show”.
“Might be… Personally, I believe that liberation will come from central region, Šumadija, Pomoravlje, let’s say pre-Kumanovo Serbia, pre-1912 Serbia. That is the space from which first liberation movement in 1804 spring out. True, self-aware, with land beneath feet people.”
—————————————————
Yeah…just wanted to remind you that the region you mentioned began to be filled with people in the second half of the 18th century, as Šumadija, as its very name suggests, was just a big forest area devoid of people who fled before Turks across Sava and Danube rivers in the preceding centuries.
Well, we all know where the majority Serbs who re-populated Šumadija came from, don’t we?
Karađorđe’s family included, of course.
Regards,
Rhetorius
Yes, of course I know. I can trace my family movement all along from Prijedor-Grahovo region to current position. And of what is that proof of ?
I am tired of this, who is Serb and who is Serbian. You are dividing what should not be divided. You are mentioning Karadjordje, did he defined himself as Šumadinac, Hercegovac, Krajišnik of any kind ? No, he did not. So, let that be example for all of us.
This nonsense move of division in national body is unhealthy. You are Prečanin ( Serb who live out of Serbia)
and I do not consider You as a lesser Serb and I do not want to feel as a lesser one. Serbs are moving counter clockwise for a 400-500 years over Balkan.
Do not do this anymore, please, and if I am Serbijan ( Srbijanac) than You are Montenegro or Herzegovian or whatever, do not hijack a title of Serb, it belongs to every man who define himself as part of nation.
I am really sick and tired of this self imposed subdivision.
Historically, the liberation movement spring out in Šumadija, now where ever it spring out, I am supporting it.
Ad who is stil, the de facto leader of the “The West”? Who runs the DC, the Pentagon, Special Command, the letter agencies, and supreme court judges…? The Rome. You call them Empire when in fact they are the IV Reich. The same people who gave you all “isms”. all of them – the so called best educators – gave you the fake Pope Jorge. The cult of pedos masquerading as “Society of Jesus”, who of course push LGBT rights and don’t care about the family and hate pesky Serbs and Russians who allways cause problems.
@Saker
Most Vucic supporters are pro-Russian in general and pro-Putin in particular.
This person is clearly NOT a Vucic supporter. He says so himself…and perhaps you should believe him.
Most Vucic supporters are pro-Russian in general and pro-Putin in particular.
Only until the Russians dare to express their, let’s say, “ambiguous” feelings about Vucic and his “multi-vector” policies, at which point they instantly turn into Banderistas…
Besides, it is pretty obvious that it was my mention of Vucic which goes these guys going.
No point in denying that.
As a Vucic supporter, I’m one of “those guys”, and my view is that your take on Serbian politics is way off the mark. But I’ve given up trying to argue that issue on this blog, as you seem to be quite unmovable.
The only problem I have with this particular article is the blanket smear.
So you, as Vucic supporter, first suggest that Његош is not a real Vucic supporter before taking over the staff from him/her/them and arguing the same point, as a Vucic supporter.
Forgive me my skepticism, but the contradiction is is so glaring that it is impossible not to see: you are now doing “damage control” on behalf of Његош who was stupid enough to be honestly blunt with me.
Also, FYI, I had no particular views about Vucic and Serbian internal politics until I started getting regular “visits” by Vucic supporters all saying pretty much the same stuff: Russians are traitors and hypocrites who backstabbed Serbia many times while Vucic is a brilliant patriot who has to walk a difficult thin line (i.e.: multi-vectorism) but who is a great friend of Russia.
I had no disgust for Vucic until I came across his supporters. “The company you keep”, you know?
And so now, no, indeed, I am most unlikely to change my mind about him, his multi-vector policies or the true feelings of his supporters.
@Saker
So, Vucic supporters apparently hate Russia (“traitors, hypocrites, backstabbers”) , yet they look at Vucic’s friendship with Russia as a virtue.
Either they are all schizophrenics, or you are shoving two completely different groups of people into the same pot.
Either they are all schizophrenics, or you are shoving two completely different groups of people into the same pot
No, they are simply spineless and blame others (Russia) rather than look critically at themselves.
That is one definition of cowardice.
Zoran, the damage done by Његош honest expression of feelings is done, your damage control is futile.
My 2cts
Saker, if you investigated Vucic’s personality, political career, and present policies even a bit, I’m sure that disgust would overwhelm you. I’m fairly certain that Vucic has manipulated a lot of people into thinking he is a pro-Russian, not that hard thing to do for a man who has complete control over the media and can construct whatever narrative suits him.
This is what Vucic had to say about Maria Zakharova and ‘those who appointed her’:
“O sebi govori i Marija Zaharova, i primitivizam i prostakluk koji je pokazala govori o njoj i o onima koji su je tu postavili…”
Translation: “Maria Zakharova’s (words) speak a lot about herself, the primitivism and rudeness she demonstrated speaks a lot about her and those who appointed her…”
But I am sure that Vucic supporters can quote plenty of very pro-Russian statements too.
That is what multi-vectorness is all about: speaking from both sides of your mouth and proudly declare that A is black and A is white, all in one breath.
This is what all prostitutes do: try to please their prospective clients.
I can assure you that the folks in the Kremlin know exactly the type of person they are dealing with.
@Mairon
QUOTE: “I’m fairly certain that Vucic has manipulated a lot of people into thinking he is a pro-Russian”
The logical conclusion then is that Vucic supporters (as manipulated as they may be) ARE pro-Russian.
My 2cts
Not at all. The logical conclusion is that Vucic cannot show his true colors to the Serbian people so, like Eltsin, he has to PRETEND to be a patriot.
Now, if we assume that there are SINCERELY pro-Vucic Serbs out there and that these people are also SINCERELY pro-Russian, then this shows the need for an effective counter-propaganda effort to show them the logical absurdity of supporting and prostitute while at the same time supporting monogamy.
In other words, the worst thing real Serbian patriots can do is to tell the Vucic supporters that they are true patriots.
I am confident that over time the Serbian people will clean house.
But for the time being we all need to be honest about what we observe.
A reply to both the Saker and Zoran,
“But I am sure that Vucic supporters can quote plenty of very pro-Russian statements too.”
This may as well be true, though I have a hard time finding any explicit pro-Russian statement Vucic has made in the last couple of years. Maybe one of his apologists could do that. As far as I’ve observed, Vucic’s image as being pro-Russian among his more(genuinely) patriotic followers is built upon:
1) Media headlines of sensationalist nature, are often crude but effective, think along the lines ‘Putin DEFENDS Serbia’ ‘Russia giving Serbia WEAPONS’ etc, etc, you get the idea
2) Declarative statements by some members of the regime about the friendship and traditional ties between Serbia and Russia
In my opinion, many pro-Vucic Serbs are convinced Vucic is pro-Russian, even when their proof of his sentiment is lacking, it’s a sort of instinct reinforced by (but not created) by propaganda. Vucic’s nationalist past also convinces these people he’s different than the hordes of other pro-Western politicians.
As for what Zoran said, I don’t doubt there are Vucic supporters who are pro-Russian. What I argued was they are giving their support to the wrong man.
Saker is undoubtedly right, Vucic cleverly placates both camps, the patriotically minded one and the rabidly pro-Western minority (which has a lot of influence in the media and even our institutions) but his statements about the UNSC 1244 are particularly worrying, he hinted many times that he wants to unchain Serbia from the only piece of paper that legally affirms its sovereignty over Kosovo. This is in clear contradiction to the Russian position, Russia is categorical that UNSC 1244 should be upheld.
@Mairon
What Maria exactly said/do to trigger him so much? Quote opens only Serbian sources, and none mention her exact words.
Nevermind. I found it
https://www.facebook.com/maria.zakharova.167/posts/10224148174881794
Maria Zakharova
S1eptegSmbl4mner h5ei,d 20228016 ·
Если Вас позвали в БД, а стул поставили так, будто Вы на допросе, садитесь как на фото #2. Кем бы Вы ни были. Просто поверьте.
UPD Прошу прощения, но мой пост был неверно истолкован! Единственное, что в нем содержалось – неприятие высокомерного отношения со стороны «исключительных».
Протокольные уловки стали одним из приёмов, на которые регулярно идут американские чиновники, чтобы искусственно создать видимость собственной исключительности. А это неприемлемо.
If you are invited to the BD, and the chair is set up as if you are in interrogation, sit down as in photo #2. For whom ever you are . Just have faith.
UPD Sorry, but my post was incorrectly interpreted! The only thing it contained was a dislike of the arrogant attitude of the “exceptional”.
Protocol traps have become one of the techniques that American officials regularly use to artificially create the visibility of their own exclusivity. And this is not acceptable.
I am from Serbia. I do not believe you. You are lying.
There are a number of factors or angles wIth which to assess Vucic. 1. Yugoslavia was destroyed and divided up. Serbia could still face that same fate if its leadership makes a mistake, its leader incarcerated in the Hafue and “killed” as happened to Milosevic. 2. Vucic didnot go along w/sanctiona against Russia. 3. Vucic could have an easier time going along w/the west and possibly retire w/a very healthy bank a/c. And Putin, unlike the west would not do anything to destroy him. 4. If he aligns w/the west he would be ‘protected’ as long as he toes the line. But he has chosen a middle path. Stay below the radar and minefields?
Absolutely agree with number 2. Spot on.
As for 1… there’s catch. All Serbian “leaders” must be UK/US approved to be candidates in election process.
Election can be fair and righteous, people elect “their” candidate for real, they just never heard anything about those who are not approved by UK/US. All candidates have scripted role in soap opera that leads to singular choice: UK/US candidate wins. Flavor of governments is changeable, but one thing never changes. Western profit. (OK, it can rise).
Vucic is simultaneously attacked, and defended by west. They will keep him alive as long as he enables business as usual. They will keep him on the edge, just in case. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. It is western way of doing things. He is not first, nor last. (globally).
I won’t elaborate this controversy here, now. Maybe later.
Yanukovych is one way to understand Vucic’s dilemma. What happened to Yanukovych and Ukraine when he decided against signing up w/the EU? Regime change, deaths and destruction followed in short shrift. And we know that Yanukovych is no selfless patriot nor w/o self-interests, but when he did what is good and right for Ukraine it was game over. He was rescued by Putin, but Ukrainians paid a hefty price. Vucic would be stupid, foolish, or tempting fate for Serbians and himself if he made a clear stand for any one side given the relentless intent of the west to take down Russia, and any country bold enough to stand against that would meet a swift and merciless blood bath in the land. Politics is not black and white as Saker ought to know. Putin used to drive people crazy making overtures to his “partner” in the west when people are clear that the hegemon is only interested in undermining/ destroying Russia – at any costs not borne by the hegemon. One delible lesson was from Medvedev, then President of RF – was he ‘unwittingly?’ co-opted to vote for an illegal invasion of Libya in 2011. With the US one has to be on high alert, unfortunately. But things are changing now. The advantage is no longer w/the west. With other opposite/ alternative centres of power and influence many govts would be free to take sovereign decisions in their country’s interests.
Unfortunately, the election of a head of State in many countries are decided by the west or by an unaccountable cabal/ swamp. But if one is appointed to the role of president, and also aspires to lead one’s people to freedom in the long run – one has to play along in the system. Jesus’s advice to his followers to be gentle as a dove and sly as a dove. But he did not take his own advice for reason(s) I won’t go into here too. Proverbs also advises as much, ie, be not overly upright (or it is no longer a virtue). So it does mean that Vucic can do whatever he sees fit/ prudent as a way or inch towards the goal of gaining more space for Serbia. I see Trump in the same strait jacket but being buffoonish may be his way against the DC swamp and interests groups. It leaves them thinking ‘nobody would take that sort of a buffoon seriously’ so he could realize as much of what he needed to do to steer his country onto a different course. But it takes more than one term and one person w/a small group of likeminded personnel to steer what seems like USTitanic heading for the bottom of the oceans. Trump did say something to this effect about throwing some meat to the voracious now and then to get them off his scent.
This was Mocking Bird agent. This was a professional Troll. MB uses retired Ashkenazi out of Canada who need $ and hate Russia. What you got wrong is, they do not defend Vucic, they try to cause rift between Russia and Serbia and this site is prominently painted as “Putin’s disinformation agent” so is under attack.
@ Al
Thank God, there’s many that clearly see through ruse. Wasn’t like that before. Things are going in positive direction.
Agree w/you. Attempts to drive a wedge between Russia and Serbia, and also Russia and China, will continue. Strength is in unity and trust, not wariness and distrust.
https://youtu.be/Wj769PXPQJg
Here is an interview of Vucic by Solovyo recently. It does give a perspective of the concerns and difficulties faced by Vucic and the people of Serbia. He also clarified his position w/Putin re his balancing act. With the bombardment and destruction of Yugoslavia in mind. To be fair to Vucic he has brought Serbia through treacherous and difficult times, and their economy has been helped somewhat by his collaboration w/China and Russia. Putin seems to buy his explanation, and the former is not a person who could be easily fooled. Vucic needs to be supported and encouraged for the sake of Serbia, and avoid further acrimonious contentions and divisions in that region. It only gives space for the hegemon and NATO to exploit!
Yes I actually agree. Genuine Vucic bots don’t use such language and don’t mention race, their style is much more primitive. Nevertheless, what I wrote in my earlier comment still stands.
My sentiment exactly.
You must be getting under their skin Saker, the truth sends these types apoplectic so keep on keeping on.
I’ve read this blog daily since 2013, only very occasionally posting & it has quite literally been an education. I used to post under Espina but upon the discovery of Argentocoxos & some Scottish history I was inspired to change my monicker. May the good lord bless & keep you,
Good will & hugs from Scotland.
Argentocoxos
You must be getting under their skin Saker, the truth sends these types apoplectic so keep on keeping on.
Yup, I sure do. There is an entire pack of intellectually small yapping mutts who bark me up almost every time I write something. Some because they truly hate me, others, most of them, because they hope that by bashing me they will get some visibility. That never works (many have tried, all have failed and are long gone by now), but they keep trying, even while the caravan passes :-)
Cheers
:-) cheers
“That never works (many have tried, all have failed and are long gone by now), but they keep trying, even while the caravan passes :-)”
Clear symptom of paid bots infestation. Sorry, pal…you are NOT silicone enhanced teenage to have army of stalkers, nor this is Only Fans channel. :-)
Russian are the last community who deserve to still live in these world. Strange enough the have
so military strenght like the never had in the past, although the won all war with central power.
This time will be no different. I have only one dubt, it the President and his supporter will subjugate to the vatican.
Russian are the last community who deserve to still live in these world
Here I have to respectfully disagree. Serbia today is no way worse than Russia was in the 90s. The same goes for the Ukraine until 2014 (after which the Ukraine did become even worse than Russia in the 90s). I rather than say that this community does “deserve” to live or not, I would suggest that ANY AND ALL nations who can bounce back and liberate itself from foreign occupation and become sovereign deserves to live. The perfect example of such a nation is, in my opinion, Iran. But I could also mention Cuba or Bolivia. And, of course, China. There are MANY more. In fact, all of Zone B is engaged in such a struggle for true sovereignty and I think that they all deserve our support irrespective of their choice for an internal political system (socialist, Islamic, liberal-capitalist, Communist or any other).
In sharp contrast, prostitutes only deserve our contempt and pity.
Cheers
Saker,
You are absolutely correct to ban him, but your title is very wrong, it should read “The true face of a Vucic supporter for all to see” (note the singular). I take your qualification of him as “Vucic supporter” (but not Vucic-troll, Vucic certainly did not hire him as a troll) at face value – though it could be anyone. You should not equate a troll to millions of Vucic supporters, who are true Serbian patriots and admirers of Russia and Russian people who they consider as their brothers.
I regularly read your articles and usually agree with your commentaries. Sometimes I don’t, like the one you made about Vucic in your recent article. Maybe the prostitute attribute is accurate from your point of view (aren’t most if not all politicians are prostitutes), but to equate him to Lukashenko or Tokayev is wrong from the geopolitical point of view:
– Serbia is a landlocked country completely surrounded by NATO and because of that fact cannot (yet) formally align with Russia. NATO and the EU would choke it economically.
– The only peaceful option for Serbia in the current circumstances is to keep a neutral position. Btw, what’s wrong with the multi-polar stance, should not ALL countries be on the same equidistance from all other countries? Isn’t the multi-polar world exactly what Russia is advocating anyway?
– Serbs still remember 1999 when NATO savagely bombed their country while the Russians gave her diplomatic support. I understand that Russia was weak then and couldn’t help, but some people still think that Russians somehow “betrayed” Serbs. П.П.Његош may well be a relative of a killed or maimed victim of NATO aggression, not a good reason for his racist outburst though.
– Serbia is not geopolitically important to Russia (as Belarussia and Kazakhstan are) and Russia will not risk a nuclear war to defend Serbia, I’m sure that Putin told that to Vucic.
Regards,
Predrag
Dear Predrag
Like any and all generalizations, speaking of “Vucic supporters” is just that, a generalization and it is therefore inaccurate as soon as we look at it on the micro-level.
You tell me that there are Vucic supporters who are patriots and don’t hate Russians. Okay, I accept that and I offer them my apologies if I have misrepresented their views.
I also think that we can respectfully agree to disagree. Serbians know a heck of a lot more about Serbia than I do, that is obvious, so my views might be shaped by a skewed view of reality.
That being said,
While I also agree that Serbia is currently encircled by NATO, I do not think that multi-vectoralism is the right policy. However, and here I am much more emphatic, even if Vucic himself has no other option than to engage is a delicate balancing act, this is NOT a reason for Serbians to convince themselves that this is right.
Russia has been on the retreat for 30 years now and while this retreat was also forced upon Russia by a much more powerful West, and while Russian patriots could support Putin as a leader, they did not feel that they need to whitewash all of his actions.
Also, a multi-polar world only makes sense amongst SOVEREIGN nations. Only a sovereign nation can be considered as part of Zone B or, at the very least, a nation which tries hard to become sovereign. That is the opposite of multi-vectorness.
Here is the good news from Serbia: remove or otherwise “defang” NATO and Serbia become the predominant power in the Balkans, which is what the Empire fears the most. But since the Empire is already dead, the liberation of Serbia is just a matter of time, just like the liberation of the LDNR. So now is NOT the time for any multi-vectorness. Yes, the Serbs cannot trigger a military confrontation with NATO (yet), but they can very much declare a political war on NATO and the EU. In other words, there are already options for Serbia other than prostitution. Vucic’s policies only hinder and slow down the inevitable liberation of Serbia, at least in my opinion.
Bottom line: I am opposed on both pragmatic and idealist reasons to multi-vectorness in all its shapes and manifestations. I make no exception for Serbia (or for other countries which used to be friendly to Russia, say like Georgia).
I hope that the above adequately clarifies my personal position.
Kind regards
Saker,
I’m glad you made that – quite harmless – comment of Vucic that prompted his deranged followers (was he paid? there’s a possibility) to lash out at you. This proves to everyone on this blog the nature of Vucic and the kind of atmosphere we in Serbia have been living in for the past 10 years. The best description I can come of is to compare it to a mix of a circus and a really cheap reality show, often bordering on the bizarre. Sadly, the results can be very sad for Serbia if this state of affairs continues in the future.
Also, Vucic regime has a top-notch propaganda apparatus perfectly suited to manipulate the Serbian psyche on both an individual and collective level, some of his tabloids frequently parrot how he’s pro-Russia and all his recent moves, such as slapping sanctions on Belarus, the shameful stunt in Washington, joining the American summit for ‘Democracy’ etc, are but an elaborate hoax to trick and temporarily placate the West. Meanwhile, Serbia’s military cooperation with NATO is expanding (they’ve signed several treaties giving NATO a lot of rights) and the government itself is full of openly pro-US cadres, not to mention the NGOs and media.
I hope this will open the eyes of some Serbs and non-Serbs who may have a wrong idea about the Vucic regime and what’s currently happening in Serbia.
Hope you’re well and had a great Christmass.
I’m glad you made that – quite harmless – comment of Vucic that prompted his deranged followers (was he paid? there’s a possibility) to lash out at you. This proves to everyone on this blog the nature of Vucic and the kind of atmosphere we in Serbia have been living in for the past 10 years.
When I wrote what I did I knew that they would pounce. I was hoping that one of them would provide me with the evidence I needed and Његош very kindly obliged: he/she/it clearly ain’t too bright and was hoping that his/her/its comment would not be posted :-)
Now that their reputation on the Saker blog is roadkill, I think that a few will send me some emails with insults and then give up. There is nothing to be gained for them here anymore.
A good outcome for everybody I think!
Cheers
The Serbian people are due to vote in a referendum on Jan 16th about changes to the constitution in order to bring the Serbian constitution “in line” with the EU one.
We already had several EU officials visit to inform us that “we had better vote yes”…the no vote has a slight edge but 50% of the people don’t know what to vote so it’s still up in the air…
So there’s a lot of online trolling and manipulation going on.
Last December, local Serbian authorities scuppered a deal between Rio Tinto and Belgrade government to mine lithium in Serbia. So everything has been dialled up a notch to avoid the vote going the “wrong way”
As for this particular fellow, using the name of Petar II Petrović -Njegoš (a historical figure), in Serbia he is simply known as “Njegoš “, nobody uses any initials, “P.P.” or anything in front of his name. Just saying.
He is an Ukrop troll for sure.
Empire has much to gain by souring our relations. No true Serbian patriot would ever say that. If it helps, young people hate Vučić and want a true leader. Sadly, no one is stepping out yet, so our dear dictator reigns supreme.
Anti-Russian posts in Serbia sharply increased in couple of last months, and exploded after Putin’s generous decision not to increase gas price to Serbia. Vucic’s PR team heavily exploited this in media space. Can anyone explain to me why would he ordered his trolls to push anti Russian sentiment?
To me it is more likely western campaign pushed through multiple NGOs. Timing, even wording, closely resembles anti-Putin campaign in Syria. couple years ago. another pointer to western origin as they always use same scripts and sequences. Just change names. I assume that similar, anti Serbian campaign is pushed into Russian media space including blogosphere. Perfidious Albion got its derogatory name by doing exactly the same mind-trick for centuries. They are adepts in turning friends one against another. Then calling them “useful idiots”.
Why I have strong feeling that I must declare that I am NOT Vucic’s supporter to be heard? This is not healthy atmosphere for sensible dialog.
>Can anyone explain to me why would he ordered his trolls to push anti Russian sentiment?
Vucic is preparing to recognize Kosovo. The only obstacle to this is Russia. Without recognizing Kosovo Vucic (the whore) cannot fulfill his obligations to his Wetern masters.
What might get those people really pissed is a picture like this one of the proud Serbian man in question:
https://srbin.info/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/vu%C4%8Di%C4%87-tramp.png
In my defense, I’m not Russia and have no Russian blood as far as I know. Although, I probably in some way can be qualified as a distant part of some “Asiatic hordes”. So there we go, they have a way to insult me back to overcompensate their complex.
I live in Serbia. We had to listen such crap from Vucic and his officials. They hate Russia and adore US power but they have to pretend and even cooperate with Russia as a part of their own supporters are deeply pro Russian. Vucic is a full western stodge.
Serbia is also dependent on Russian gas so they are not anti Russian at this stage yet. Vucic and his party are created bu MI6.
As a Serb, & speaking as a Serb I wish to make it clear that the commenter calling himself Njegos does not represent the Serbian people – this may be stating the obvious but I think all persons of Serbian or partial Serbian ethnic ancestry should make that clear (those that visit this site). I’ve noticed recently an increasing number of Serbian commentators expressing anti-Russian & Russophobic views. I believe this is contrived, such people do exist, but there is a vested interest in the Anglo-American imperial info war to place a wedge, by whatever means, between Serbs & Russians. The overwhelming majority of Serbs are 100% Russophile, many of us consider ourselves more than brothers, but as a people who originated in contemporary Russia we Serbs are unique part of the Russian/eastern Slavonic etnos. A note on “Njegos”, the name gives away the possibility that the commentator originates in Montenegro – anyone familiar with what has been taking place in Montenegro will know that a vast psyop has been taking place for 30 years under the mafia clan of Milo Djukanovic to transform the Serbian people of Montenegro into anti-Serb & anti-Russian chauvinists of the Ustasha/Banderista variety. The fact that he used racial slurs indicates a person harbouring a distinct Nazi ideology that has been cultivated in Montenegro on the Croatian Ustasha model, which is a sister project to the Banderistan Ukronazi project. The Saker/Andrei has the support & solidarity of this Serb, for those who would question me on whether I am a Serb or just claiming to be one, ask anyone from the village of Golocelo, opshtina Donje Crniljevo in the Reka Tamnava region between Sabac, Valjevo & Loznica who the Milinkovic family is. That is us.
Thw only one who calls Russian “treasonous asiatic race” ar UkrNazis. You would never hear this form a Serb. This is Mocking Bird’s agent trying to drive a rift between.
This troll is hilarious, why give him attention if not for laughing reasons?
False flags are known signature by the Empire. I seriously cannot imagine someone honestly honoring great Petar Petrovic Njegos by using anything against Russians as Njegos had foreign policy of “where Russia goes, we follow”.
It must be noted that Russian budget of that time had a permanent expense of aid for the budget of Montenegro.
This is an example of everything-western loving mind which cannot display that with love towards western accomplishments, instead uses hatred against anything non-western.
Well, I find what he said nuts. And I agree with your Ustashe comment there. What he says is the same kind of fallback “I have nothing sensible to add” to the discussion position, so senseless personal attacks ensue. It makes me really sad that people can be so far off the beaten track like that…
How about Saker locks this thread? It is turning into fight between pro-Vuchic and anti-Vuchic Serbs, who talk to each other through Andrey.
Vuchic being right or wrong, honest or a traitor has nothing to do with the ugliness of the post from so called Njegos. I believe there are lots of places on the internet where Serbs can fight their political battles and insult each other. This forum is not a place for that. In any case. The post was rude and below any decency so it does not deserve so much attention Raving lunatic is exactly that – raving lunatic. It can be mental illness, so no point arguing. However, if people with mental illness go out of control, the first thing is to ignore them, then prevent them from possibly harming someone.
Saker, please lock this thread and save Serbs from ruining national reputation.
Sorry, but no. I find this thread extremely useful as it shows who is who and who thinks what. The idiot calling himself “Његош” made a major mistake, one which I intend to exploit to the fullest (that is also what I did when I gave COVID-crusaders three days of unmoderated freedom to show their true face: the one of a crazy death cult).
But I think that most of those who had something to say said it, so this will now slowly fizzle out.
God willing, the likes of “Његош” will have learned their lesson and stay away :-)
To all others – my thanks for your comments!
Kind regards
Andrei
The Serbian Logos is connected with the Russian Logos – the Nemanjic Empire and at the highest point of the vertical, and it belongs to the time of Ivan Vasiljevic IV Tsar of Russia who established genealogy, connected two origins into one, his origin with the Serbian Nemanjic dynasty, in the concrete character of King Lazar as a link connection, who opposed the antichrist. This genealogy established the cult of King Lazarus as a saint, who opposed the antichrist, which is truly sacred for the fallen Constantinople, which was inherited by Moscow as the Third Rome, and for Serbia itself and Russia and Orthodoxy. Kealj Lazar was painted in the Archangel’s Church in the Kremlin, and that church was the mausoleum of the Russian Tsars, there is a portrait of the Byzantine Emperor Michael VIII Palaeologus, then a portrait of King Stefan Nemanic and Rastko Nemanjic-Saint Sava. So it is the culmination of historical, spiritual, cultural and political achievement that is in time and space, there are empires of Serbia and Russia, there is space and there is time and it is a fact of history, the time of objective self of Serbia and Russia, depth, height and breadth in space primordial, which we observe with the quality of time, past, present and future, so we observe space – we measure time and time with space, and here is the knowledge of Serbia and Russia with the quality of past, present and future, ie eternity. All the values of Serbia and Russia were created and that value belongs to Serbs and Russians, whose members of the people can recognize themselves only through this created value of their ancestors, and longevity depends on the ability of these two peoples to return to their origins, as I pointed out above .
Please don’t judge all Serbs by this one commentator (if he is a Serb). And I’m sure you’re not!
I just wanted to use this event to bring up something that I think is true: Every large group of humans, such as modern nations, contains both very bad and very good people, with everything in between. I’ve even seen that within single families, or even, to some extent, within the same person, over time. So it’s always good to be hopeful, as well as suspicious, of everyone you meet. No matter what group they’re from.
Croats and Bosniaks tend to take up names of famous Montenegrin Serbs like Петар Петровић Његош, specially on boards where English is mainly used, so they are not risking too much when they write and tip themselves off by a local idiome.
Might be one of those, specially since they also tend to be, as i like to call them “geneticists”.
Yeah because the US bombing the crap out of Yugoslavia means they’re BEST FRIENDS!