The truth about Srebrenica finally?

The probability that Meholjić’s version of events, as seen in the documentary, may be true is indirectly corroborated also by the following curious circumstance. In the aftermath of NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999 it turned out that Albanians entertained a similar expectation that if they managed to engineer the sacrifice of about 5,000 civilians at the hands of Serbian forces, the resulting outrage would ensure the intervention of NATO forces. In a broadcast on BBC2, 12 March 2000, we see Kosovo Albanian negotiator Dugi Gorani expounding that view as follows: “The more civilians were killed, the chances of international intervention became bigger, and the KLA of course realised that. There was this foreign diplomat who once told me, ‘Look unless you pass the quota of five thousand deaths you’ll never have anybody permanently present in Kosovo from the foreign diplomacy’”. [5]

A video clip of Gorani’s remarks may be viewed here: http://www.yugofile.org.uk/video/quota5000.mov.

http://www.srebrenica-project.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143:could-they-possibly-be-so-unimaginative&catid=12:2009-01-25-02-01-02

……

“The official narrative on Srebrenica is in rigor mortis, and its proponents know it well. Personal attacks on all who engage in critical thinking about what passes for “Srebrenica genocide” evidence and efforts in many countries to criminalise free inquiry are desperate attempts to remove Srebrenica from the list of discussible topics.”

http://www.srebrenica-project.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=154%3Asrebrenica-as-holocaust-trifkovic-the-genocide-denier&catid=12%3A2009-01-25-02-01-02

The gauntlet which the producers of the recently released Norwegian documentary “Srebrenica: A Town Betrayed” had to endure served as a warning to all who were contemplating a departure from what Professor Edward Herman aptly calls “the party line” on Srebrenica. In the event, the furious reaction of the Srebrenica lobby turned out to be not only futile but counter-productive; nonetheless, the damage to rational discourse has been done. The relentless campaign waged against producers Ola Flyum and David Hebditch will not deter them, but arguably it might have an inhibiting effect on others who feel inspired to investigate Srebrenica outside the bounds of conventional discourse. The stern warnings issued by ICTY to Swedish State Television, which had the temerity to air the offending documentary, will do little to stimulate the spirit of free inquiry, let alone to put controversial Srebrenica propositions to a Popperian test.

http://www.srebrenica-project.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=142:the-virtues-of-unfalsifiability-karl-popper-looks-at-srebrenica&catid=12:2009-01-25-02-01-02

An important and perhaps growing feature of official and strong-interest-group propaganda is the resort to personal attacks and flak to keep dissidents at bay and inconvenient thoughts out of sight and mind. This has been notable over many years in the case of pro-Israel propaganda, where we can observe a positive correlation between upward spikes in Israeli killings and dispossession actions (and in the world’s negative reactions to these, as in the case of Operation Cast Lead, Israel’s brutal, late December 2008 attack on the Gaza Palestinians), and the increase in pro-Israeli activist, lobby, and political agents’ cries of “anti-Semitism,” along with other efforts to halt criticisms of Israel, and to punish those who do not know when to heel.

The same is true of many other forms of interest-group propaganda, including the vast array designed to protect imperial actions and the imperial state. We were very conscious of this when studying the Western dismantlement of Yugoslavia,1 where the Western media quickly fell into line and treated with aggressive condemnation any departures from the accepted truth and de facto party-line.2 The media-truth-squads were joined in this and reinforced by a loosely-knit Bosnian Genocide Lobby, sponsored partly by Western governments and partly by wealthy private interests such as George Soros, and validated by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, combining the ICTY’s indictments and judgments with NGOs, journals, and websites that continuously watch for and react against “genocide deniers.”

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/hp220110.html

@Everybody: where can I find a full-length version of Sarajevo Richochet either subtitled or dubbed in English, French, Russian, Spanish, German or Italian? I could only find excerpts, but not the full thing.

@Michael: the easiest way to download a video from YouTube (and most other sites) is to use the downloadhelper extension for FireFox: http://www.downloadhelper.net/

HTH

Everybody: thanks for your comments and pointers about Srebrenica. If, indeed, the official narrative about Srebrenica is in rigor mortis, I hope that the Markale market massacres (real, but false flag) and the Racak (fake) massacre are next in line to be debunked. With what has taken place in Libya and with what is taking place today in Syria the US strategic psyop efforts must be understood and explained to the general public.

Thanks, Saker.

I downloaded the film and watched it. Although many facts in that film were new to me, none of them surprised me at all. I knew, in a general sort of way, that the Western powers deliberately exacerbated the conflict, and stoked civil war, for their own geopolitical putposes. This documentary names names and gives detailed facts.

I always knew that Bill Clinton was a natural-born psychopath. I suspected that Izetbegović was, as well. This video provides evidence of both.

You asked – does anyone care anymore? From what I can see, mostly not. However, once in a blue moon, I get someone who spouts the anti-Serb propaganda. I now have a video I can point them to, provided (of course!) that they really want to understand that happened.

Thanks for the link.

@Anonymous:he original report, produced in September 2002, was a detailed and thorough account. It concluded that there had been no massacres, but that some 2,500 Bosnian Muslims and 500 Serbs had been killed in fighting in the forests as the column of men from Srebrenica had made their way towards Muslim lines.

This is just one example among many others. Something very similar happened with the UNPROFOR investigation of the Markale massacre which concluded that no mortar shell shot from the Bosnian-Serb lines could have caused the explosion. As for the EU report on Racak, it was immediately classified as it came back with the “wrong” conclusions…

The fact is that *a lot* of people were aware of what was going on. The United Nations is not a military organization like NATO, and its capability to keep things secret is, frankly, rather bad. People talk to each other in their offices, they talk to each other in the cafeteria, and they further talk after hours in their homes or when they go out. And there is no UN counterintelligence section tasked with preventing that from happening. Also, the UN is *very* diverse in terms or race, religion, country of origin, professional profile, education, etc. etc. etc. There is no real vetting process for admission, so it is very hard, impossible really, to keep a lid on “loose tongues” discussing presumably confidential information. And this is why I can personally attest to the following:

There was a constant tension between, on one side, NATO/US and UNPROFOR on the other. Sure, the top brass at UNPROFOR was vetted and generally pro-US, but the rest of UNPROFOR was not. So the fact that the UN/NATO were deeply involved with false flag operations, “black flights”, pressuring member states to produce “correct” reports, flying in folks from what will become known as al-Qaeda, etc. was all semi-public knowledge at UNPROFOR and at the UN. And as long as you only discussed it at the cafeteria nobody gave a damn about it.

Now, if you actually officially raised the topic then this became a career stopper, as yours truly painfully discovered for himself.

I find Chomsky a little weak on the war in Yugoslavia, I feel Michael Parenti does a better job …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs

Hi, Saker;

After having watched this video, and passing it on to others, I still have some residual questions. Apparently, you were there in a UN capacity, so you may be able to answer my question.

All the information I have been able (including the above video) indicates that the Muslim prisoners, who were captured after the fall of Srebrenica, were later rounded up and shot. Some people say it happened in a big soccer stadium, others says these summary executions happened elsewhere. But all seem to agree that these summary executions took place, and that the bodies were later buried in out of the way locations.

Is that your understanding of events? If not, then please correct any errors of understanding that I may have.

On the other hand, if events did take place, roughly as I have described, then I don’t see how General Mladić “walks” from this charge. Nasir Orić was acquitted because the ITCY found that he was not in “effective command” of his troops (which I find laughable, but that is a different discussion). On the other hand, everyone agrees that Mladić was very much in command of his troops. If he had ordered his men to stop shooting, they would have stopped. Whether or not he ordered the summary executions is of secondary importance. If he knew that the shootings were happening and he did nothing to stop them, then he is liable under every code of military justice I know of.

The machinations of Izetbegović, Orić, Clinton, et al. are loathsome and despicable. However, saying that “the devil made us do it” is not going to fly in even the fairest and most impartial court of law. It is similar to sting operations run by cops. “Entrapment” is only a legal defense, if you were pressured into doing something you would not otherwise have done. If all the cops did was to give you an enticing opportunity to do something you were planning to do all along, anyway, then that defense doesn’t hold up.

This brings me to my final point. My biggest problem with the Hague is that this is so transparently a “kangaroo court” that no serious person will believe any verdict that comes out of that court, even when the court actually gets it right. It reminds me of something that Alan Dershowitz (a man for whom I otherwise have no use), said about the trial of Bruno Richard Hauptmann (convicted of kidnapping and killing Charles Lindbergh’s first-born son):

“Few today deny that the trial was unfair, not only by current standards, but by the far less rigorous standards of the 1930’s. But many who acknowledge the trial’s unfairness insist that Hauptmann was plainly guilty.” The more I learn about Srebrenica, the more I come to the same conclusion about Mladić.

Your comments? Am I missing something crucial here?

…continued

Look, we are talking about the BALKANS here, Bosnia, the place where not only Serbs suffered unspeakable horrors, but also the place where butchering the “enemy” in the worst possible manner is almost a tradition and is considered absolutely normal by ALL parties and ALL parties to this war did it. A look at history will easily confirm that between the mass atrocities of the Ottomans and the maniacal genocidal policies of the Papacy during WWII the Serbs have usually been the victims of such atrocities. But unlike the Jews, their history is considered irrelevant and it is never considered as relavant to their actions.

And yet I am under no illusions about the Serbs either, if only because I know them all too well. My mother was born in Belgrade in a family of Russian refugees and she told me about all the atrocities the Serbs *also* committed during – and even before – WWII. So no, they are not saints by any strech of the imagination. But compared to the Croats, the Bosian-Muslims or the Kosovo-Albanians they are most definitely not the most guilty party out there. Personally, the worst and most evil actor in all these wars was, who else, the USA – the two Clintons, Albright and the rest of the SOBs in the USA who made absolutely darn sure that the worst possible outcomes would be reached at every step of the developing conflict.

But let turn back to you points:

My biggest problem with the Hague is that this is so transparently a “kangaroo court”

Of course, I totally agree here. It is a 100% purely political court, which is just another part of the US/Israel world domination apparatus, and not in any meaningful way a court.

Sorry for the less-than-satisfying answers – I can only say what I know, and add some (hopefully) educated guesses to it. I do not claim to know the full story here.

Kind regards,

The Saker

What is genocide? Genocide is Auschwitz and Jasenovac. Genocide is when the state conducts an extermination of a nation, including women and children. So, at the Auschwitz ramp, in the gas chambers, the children, women, elderly were killed, and only because they belonged to a certain ethnicity and faith the Nazis declared a “dangerous element” for their state. The same is true for Jasenovac, where the greatest majority of Serbs perished, and civilians first and foremost — Serbian children, women and elderly. According to the German assessment, Croats have killed some 750,000 Serbs in 1941-1945.Comparing Srebrenica with Auschwitz or Jasenovac is unacceptable, illegitimate, brazen. It is insulting to both the Jewish and Serbian Second World War victims. In Srebrenica there was a completely reversed situation: Serbian Army had separated women, children and elderly and organized their transportation to the safe territory. Some went to Tuzla, and some to Serbia. In this way, the Serbian Army saved them from revenge of the Serbs whose loved ones were killed [in Srebrenica municipality] from 1992.” If the Serbs really wanted to perform an act of genocide, they would have murdered the women and children. Instead, they provided buses and a safe route for them to get to the Muslim-held Tuzla area. Most crimes by Serbs were committed by the individuals who were seeking revenge.Balkan,eye for eye, tooth for a tooth!Around 400 Bosnian Muslims were killed in Srebrenica, since they were found with their hands tied or with the covers on their eyes. Bosnian Muslims claim to have lost eight thousand people in Srebrenica. Every soldier who had disappeared during this one and previous actions is included in this number. They also included those who had died in 1992 and 1993. They put all these casualties on the list of disappeared in Srebrenica…Not all the 5’000+ Bosnian-Muslim solider of the Oric Infantry Brigade (aka ” ABiH 2nd Corps 28th Mountain Division”) was killed by Bosnian-Serb forces. Many made it through the mountains and arrived in refugee camps in Tuzla and other cities.Many disappeared later in the war and their names were added to the list of “victims of the Srebrenica genocide”.Some 2,500 Bosnian Muslims and 500 Serbs had been killed in fighting in the forests as the column of men from Srebrenica had made their way towards Muslim lines. Forensic specialists of the Hague Tribunal are perhaps the only professionals in their field in the entire world who do not depend on material evidence in order to determine the manner (and sometimes even the cause) of death…DNA evidence can only identify the bodies; it cannot prove the manner of death. Yet the ICTY maintains that the DNA evidence collected by ICMP somehow “proves” these people were executed. What about Serbian victims of Bosnian mujahideen? From 1992 to 1995 some 1300 Serbs were killed. Serbian villages in the Srebrenica region were torched.Especially disturbing was a religious dimension to the killings. Men were castrated in an anti-Christian gesture of circumcision. Some people were crucified, nails driven through their hands.” Western politicians and their obedient media have meticulously tuned out that crime of Naser Oric and his butchers.The Hague has created a “Srebrenica case” in order to justify crimes against the Serbs in Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia. That is why they need the story about Srebrenica as a “most horrific crime in Europe after the WWII”. Den Hague is NATO: Policeman, judge and jury. Do you really believe in such system yourself? The West cannot stop demonizing the Serbs, because if it were to do so, it would have to accuse itself.