by Imran N. Hosein
Turkish President Erdogan is, of course, quite correct that there was US (and hence NATO) involvement in the attempted coup against his government. He is also quite correct in his accusations against the Turkish Sufi Shaikh, Fathullah Gulen, accusing him of involvement in the coup. It would have been more honest of Erdogan, however, if he had also disclosed that he knew that the coup was coming, he knew that NATO was involved, and he knew that the followers of Gulen, as well as others who were opposed to his rule, were to be deceived and used as sacrificial lambs in NATO’s preparation for war with Russia.
The immediate result of the attempted coup is to make Erdogan strong enough to better lead Turkey, on NATO’s behalf, in NATO’s coming war with Russia.
If Turkey were to eventually announce that it is ending its membership in NATO, and if a Turkish delegation were to head for Russia to discuss an alternate alliance with Russia, the best response from Russia for such a visit would be to gracefully suggest that it be postponed until after the Great War. If the Turkish government were to insist on the visit from Erdogan to Moscow bearing gifts, the Russian President should increase the size of his body-guard.
We note, in addition, and briefly so at this time, that NATO needs a strong Turkey with dazzling credentials to lead the world of Islam to a new Ottoman Islamic Empire that will ensure that the world of Islam would support NATO in the coming war with Russia. That, in short, is yet another explanation of the attempted Turkish coup.
While the information below (prepared in anticipation of the coup and conveniently released at the time of the coup) concerning Turkey’s material progress under Erdogan may be correct, I have publicly condemned Erdogan for what he did (unforgivably so) in Libya, and what he is still doing (again unforgivably so) in Syria. I am also disgusted with ISIS, and alarmed by constant Russian claims that Erdogan’s Turkey is supporting ISIS clandestinely. I know of those who have traveled from far and wide to join the ranks of ISIS, and who have done so while transiting Turkish territory. Hence I am not surprised by reports of ISIS congratulating Erdogan for his success in crushing the revolt.
I anticipated that those in the Turkish Armed Forces who opposed Erdogan, would soon respond to his present crack-down with public disclosures which would reveal information which he would prefer to keep hidden. The first thing I expected to emerge would be evidence that the Turkish claim that the Russian aircraft had entered Turkish air space was a blatant lie, and the Russian demand for an apology was justified! The next thing that might be disclosed was evidence of Turkish clandestine support for ISIS.
Instead, I understand that the Turkish government has already arrested the two pilots who shot down the Russian fighter aircraft, and are blaming NATO for the act that led to the break-down of Turkey’s relations with Russia. This is an excellent move designed to build Russian confidence for an embrace of Erdogan.
However the Russians probably already know that recent events in Turkey will now culminate in the Turkish civil war which I have long anticipated. I expect that such civil war will permit the true conquest of Constantinople prophesied by Nabi Muhammad (sallalalhu ‘alaihi wa sallam).
When that happens, it will give the lie to 500 hundred years of Ottoman claims that Sultan Muhammad Fatih fulfilled that prophecy when he conquered Constantinople in 1452.
I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the martyrs (shuhada) in that battle of 1452 were not those misguided Muslims who died while conquering Constantinople. Rather, the martyrs (Shuhada) were those brave Orthodox Christians who died while defending Constantinople.
I may not live to see it all, but I am not deceived by either Dajjal’s Ottoman so-called Islamic Empire that was empowered by Gog and Magog, or by its resurrected present-day replica that is led by Erdogan. I pray that the true Muslims of Turkey, as well as my students, will also not be deceived!
However, I respect the right of those who differ with me to express themselves, and to argue the validity of their contrary views.
May Allah Most High might always show us the Truth.
Constantinople fell to the Ottomans on May 29, 1453 not in 1452
Old style calendar or new?
Difference between old v new is only 13 days
No – New Year begins on September the 1st when reckoned by the Julian calendar so reckoned by that calendar the current year is still 2015
The current Gregorian calendar was not introduced until 1582. There was no difference, because the Gregorian calendar did not exist.
Turkey did not adopt the new calendar until 1926, and by then there was 13 days difference between the Julian and Gregorian calenders.
Many countries including the US and UK did not adopt the new accurate calender until the 1700’s, they believed the new calendar was a catholic conspiracy.
Erdogans true colors are revealed. Hes an Islamist
Erdogan was forced, by a relentless economic siege, to apologise to the Russians. I thought, then, that he was about to loose face in the view of the Turkish people. After all, he started a duel with Putin, only to later run away in a cowardly way.
But then comes the “NATO inspired” coup or, more to the point, the coup organized by the old and decadent Turkish elite, to the rescue. Erdogan masterfully seizes the opportunity, and deflects the responsibility of the provocation (that infuriated the Russians so much more than what was bargained for) to a collusion of NATO and the old Turkish elite. Is is true? I find it unlikely that Erdogan knew nothing about it. Nevertheless, we can predict that the now arrested elite was going to toast Erdogan over being shoved in his place by Putin.
This is all about survival, that’s what it is.
Seriously ! Gog magog! Great war! Dajjal! Muhammed never did any prophesy! This analysis sound very unscientific, especially when compared with saker blogs.
What do you mean “unscientific when compared with saker blogs”? Saker uses religious themes throughout his blog, so this is actually right up his ally.
Personally I enjoy reading and listening to the Sheikh.
He is basing his arguments on some whimsical prophesies which are totally concocted. There is no mention of those in Quran. Prophet Muhammed could never indulge in this prophecy business as predicting future is tantamount to shirk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam)) in literal and in philosophical sense (as knowing the future is associated only with the CREATOR). Muhammed was a revolutionary and he helped people rise up against injustice…Actually all the prophets did exactly that rest is all concocted to create fear and to control people (sorry for over simplifying but thats all about it :)). If America for some reason goes to war with Russia it would because Russia is the last remaining hurdle in total world domination and control of the resources, its not because some one prophesied about it etc etc…when I mentioned Saker I really meant that this blogs helps connect the dots in a very logical manner not based on prophesies…even if he mentioned the themes i never noticed them much maybe because they blend into the topic nicely…Also Noting personal again Sheikh Imran he can continue enlighten the world with his Islamic eschatology but i think he did predict that world will end on same date in April (http://katehon.com/video/sheikh-imran-hosein-why-end-time-will-be-13-april-2016) this year but don’t we all are alive :)
The subject of prophecies is always controversial. I follow someone who receives channelled messages, Anna Merkaba. She received a channelled message on April 6, 2016, that the catastrophe of the century has been avoided (sent through her by Archangel Metatron).
https://sacredascensionmerkaba.com/2016/04/06/the-catastrophe-has-been-averted-congratulations-aa-metatron-the-company-of-heaven/
I am in the field of robotics and the current advancements in AI are to a very large extent based on mathematical probabilities and at the core of probability is the bayesian theorem which in crude language says “given event A and event B have occured what is the probability of having an event C”. Here is a very nice MIT crash course on this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyuQsaqXhwU)…if you study probability you come to conclusion that human beings also base their actions on probability mathematics.
This is why scientist can “predict” or lets say “prophesize” any event, for example who is going to win US election to accuracy of how many votes will be cast in each and every state! The same principle is being used to build autonomous cars.
Quran has just defined the universal laws and never prophesied anything…forexample the Verse 55:60 of the remarkable Surat Rehman the Creator says Is the reward for good [anything] but good? This also shows that we are responsible for our actions. If one starts believing in prophesies then lets just wait and let the inevitable happen!. So war will happen (hope it doesn’t) because America needs war for their own survival or for the survival of the capitalism (/capitalism-requires-world-war/).
hi! thanks for your response. Although i think that the bayesian approach is not pondering on lunatics adequately. So in some occassions human behaviour and traits like emotions, affections and narcism are likely to be overfitted. Despite these small imperfections i have hope for a positive learning curve. I like to thank all paticipants and especially The Saker for opening the blog and letting me know all your opinions of people I’d never had the chance to listen/read to.
TO the “scientist” that goes by the nick Waqas.
First, “in the field of robotics” means nothing at all. Since you cite Wikipedia liberally I can judge your level of involvement with any field of study. To give you an example: I’m in the field of IT; a software engineer; a master’s degree holder, currently involved in a PhD research. This is my stance in the scientific world.
Second, I will not go into probability theory, it’s not the topic most would be interested in. However, if you were in the field of science, (IF), you would know about the Hume’s problem of induction. To make it simple for the “scientists” like yourself, here what Hume claimed years ago: It is false that “instances of which we have had no experience must resemble those of which we have had experience (An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding). His claim has never been refuted, so far; it is massive and foundational. What it means in simple terms is that no one – at least in the word that we know – can predict any even with certainty. No one, nada, zilch, zero.
Third, the sheikh is a preeminent eschatology scholar. Go ahead open the beloved Wikis and see what it means. And it implies that his intention is not to predict any event, rather to INTERPRET them based on the trusted sources (in his own belief trusted) he has access to, such as Quran for instance. His claims can be argued with, but if so, one needs to provide evidence for any alternatives.
What is truly “unscientific”, or the better word would be “nonscientific”, is to denounce any argument based on your own (most probably false) beliefs about the world: the events in it; and the actors involved.
Lastly, for you to remember when you attempt to label someone or something “unscientific”: the difference between science and non-science, or theory and ideology is the fact that a theory – in order to be a theory – MUST be falsifiable. By contrast, any ideology claims that it holds the only proven truth. In the actual world it means that if you claim that your truth is better that the other’s and that it is the only truth, you are an ideolog, and not by any means a scientist.
Cheers
1. “wikipedia” it was quoted only once to explain a non English word “Shirk”.
2. “I can judge” to this i reply with the one only only Tupac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY1KXf0hlkQ)
3. “Scientist” never tried to imply that.
4. “in the field of robotics” gave some context about my familiarity about how probabilistic theory is being used to build machines which can predict accurate course of actions.
5. You will not go into “probability theory” but you will talk about “science” this doesn’t make sense.
6. no one can predict any thing, true, (wasn’t thats what i was trying to say in my previous comments! probability theory also doesn’t predict any thing with 100% certainty but maybe 99% certainty!)
7.rest of your reply is just blah blah…
2 events subsequent to the 15th big one, clearly pointing now to who initiated the coup attempt, despite it being a LIHOP on Erdo’s part.
The bomber was shot down last November. Turkey claimed the Russian plane entered its airspace, while Russia categorically denied these accusations.
“Two Turkish pilots who shot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border were taken into custody, according to a senior Turkish official speaking on condition of anonymity,” Bloomberg reports, citing a high-level Turkish official.
http://sputniknews.com/world/20160718/1043239951/su-24-pilots-arrested-turkey.html
Turkey Sends Dossiers to US for Extradition of Gulen
Turkey’s prime minister said Tuesday his government had sent four files to the United States, as Ankara seeks the extradition of US-based preacher Fethullah Gulen over his alleged links to Friday’s attempted coup.
“We have sent four dossiers to the United States for the extradition of the terrorist chief. We will present them with more evidence than they want,” Binali Yildirim told parliament.Turkey and US flags
Gulen has lived in self-imposed exile in the United States since 1999 and has denied any involvement in the putsch.
http://english.almanar.com.lb/adetails.php?eid=278749&frid=22&cid=22&fromval=1&seccatid=55
“Two Turkish pilots who shot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border were taken into custody”
That is very interesting.
Time will only tell.
Here are my reservations
Things could develop in an altogether different direction.
A strong Erdogan desiring closer ties with Russia could now incite a more direct intervention from NATO in Turkey and the result would be the same as the Shaykh forsees that is closure of the bosphorous-dardenelles for Russia and hence war. So it is not necessary that the west needs a stronger Erdogan to get its war with Russia. There is more than one way to roast a chicken.
Turkish people support Erdogan. Let us give him this much credit.
As for the shaykhs assertion that the Osmanli empire was a project of dajjal all along then I have very deep reservations. It was Russia which committed Genocide of the Muslim peoples as it expanded toward the Caucasus not the Osmanlis. Look at the resistance of the people of the Caucasus under Imam Shamil.
Shaykh Imran expects the great war to take place. No one denies that. But the great war can still take place without Erdogan and without the need for this coup. So Russia should do business as usual with Turkey.
Ohhh sure , as if Ottoman did never expand with genocide…
(removed,MOD), forget your reservations. FIRST, get your priorities straight;
Such as righteousness over pro-Ottoman..
Kurds(mostly Muslim) very well know of the Ottoman genocides as Greeks and Armenians know too..
Whatever happened to that religious background of the pervert Mongol offspring Ottoman Turks…
Now go read more Of the Quran vs Ottoman History lies.
Dear Rodi
The Kurds just like the Albanians formed the backbone of the Osmanli Dawla. The first thing the Kemalist state did after the Young Turks overthrew the Caliph in 1909 was to execute the Kurds who were deeply supportive of the Osmanli Caliphate. Shaykh Said Piran Kurdi was executed in 1925.
Turkish people support Erdogan. Let us give him this much credit.
Some people support Erdogan. Theft of oil worth 160 billion plus Allepo industrial assets made some people rich and supportive. Support based on bribe can be easily shaken.
The common man on the street came out in support of Erdogan. Even Putin cannot Garner so much support. This is the reality.
Dear Guru
Turkey paid off its debts to the IMF long before the Syrian conflict started. Turks was doing well without any oil.
Here we have “another” complicated item about Russian ethnic relations.When the Crimean territories were annexed to the Russian Empire.Ending a Tatar slave state that for centuries had raided Russian lands (as well as Poland and Romania) carrying millions of Slavs to slavery in the ME. Who was a subject of the aggressive Ottoman Empire, which used it as a base to attack Russia. The hundreds of thousands of Tatars there, were then naturally unhappy at first, to come under Russian rule. When your livelihood is based on fighting Russia. And taking Russians as slaves. The sudden loss of that, is a big problem for you.Around a third to a half of Tatars immigrated to Turkey (the Ottoman Empire) because of that. They were “not” ethnically cleansed by the Russians. As the Tatars remained the majority in the region until well into the 19th century. And even at the time of the Revolution made up a third or more of the population of Crimea.Were the Russians “unhappy” to see the Tatars leave.That is probably a “no” on the part of the population of Russia. But the government seems to have not been that happy. The Tatars leaving cut the amount of taxes they were able to collect off the population.And the Tatars going to Turkey increased the military manpower strength of the Ottomans.So there were “mixed” feelings over that. The Tatars leaving ,themselves seem to have also become very unhappy. The Turkish promises (that encouraged them to leave) weren’t honored in many cases. And for years there was a trickle of Tatars that returned to Russia. Many others died because of the bad conditions in the camps the Turks set up for them.
The case of the Circassians had many similarities to the Tatar case. The Circassians were “warrior tribes” that raided the Russian frontiers in service to the Ottomans. And also as a form of livelihood for themselves.While not the renowned slavers the Tatars were they also took Russians as slaves.The Russians sent Cossack regiments as settlers into that region. And decided only by bringing it fully under Russian rule could the Russian heartland be safe from attacks from the Caucasus region. A war lasting decades consumed the region.It was a savage scorched earth war on both sides.But at the end Russia won it. A large portion of the Circassian population refused to accept Russian rule,and decided to immigrate to Turkey (again encouraged by Turkey). Hundreds of thousands of the Circassians left for the Ottoman Empire.Which included Arab lands then.Which is why you see Circassians in Arab countries today. Unlike the Crimean case the government in Russia wasn’t unhappy to see them go. The years of war had convinced many in the government that peace would be hard with them there. But as time passed that changed. Stories of broken Turkish promises seeped back to Russia. And letters begging to return were being sent. The Tsar sent orders to allow those that wanted to come back readmitted. And posted notices asking the others to reconsider and not leave. But the “appeal” of not being ruled by a Christian government was strong. And well over half the Circassians left. The remainder seems to have become loyal citizens of the Russian Federation today.
The Caucasus region itself is a hodgepodge of “nationalities”.One of the most diverse areas on earth. The basic breakdown until the 20th Century was ,if you were Christian you were usually pro-Russian. If you were Muslim it was more complicated. Some of the elite and warrior class were co-opted into the Russian state system. While the peasants,well were “just peasants”. There had been for centuries almost constant warfare between the Christian and Muslim peoples of the Caucasus region. With one or the other having the “upper-hand” at various times. Even “sometimes” one side or the other allying against another of the same religious group of one of the sides. But by the time the Russians answered Christian appeals for help. The Iranians and Ottomans had gained control of the region. And at various times instituted reigns of terror on their Christian subjects.So there was a ready pro-Russian population among the numerous Christians in the region. Naturally,the opposite was true of the Muslim peoples of the region.Many of them weren’t happy with Ottoman or Iranian (Persian) rule. But even less happy to come under the rule of a Christian Russia.In the Muslim areas wars and rebellions went on until the 1860’s. Savage fighting enveloped the region. While in the Christian areas there was peace except for sometimes the fighting seeping over to those areas. The Russians by co-opting the Muslim leadership and warrior clan leaders, were finally able to bring peace to the region. And there was no wars there until the Revolution. The Russians allowed Islam to stay unrestricted among their Muslim peoples (while keeping a watch to make sure it was a peaceful Islam). And that lasted until the Bolsheviks came to power.And attacked all religion in Russia,Muslim as well as Christian and Jewish. But they also made of their Muslim population the most modern and educated Muslim peoples in the Islamic World.And after some years allowed the return of open Muslim worship (also Christian and Jewish).The Caucasus Muslim peoples don’t seem to have immigrated to nearly the level of the Tatars and Circassians. And as of today,except for those radicalized by Islamic terrorists seemingly are loyal citizens of the Russian Federation.While the mostly Christian Georgians and Armenians.And the mostly Muslim Azeris,broke away at the collapse of the USSR and made their “republics” independent states.
In this overview I left out the Chechen Wars and before, Stalin’s banishment’s in the region. Those events don’t change the “basic” overview of the Caucasus regions history. And more importantly,would need an entire article to untangle fully the story of those events.
Thanks, Uncle Bob 1. A really great and informative overview.
Please, how do you think Ottoman empire expanded throughout ME and North Africa?
Interesting. You know Webster Tarpley has been saying Erdogan is the Caliph and master of IS for ages.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANyPxKoed2f6JshKLqRxWqRaPBMryJELCqNqrvMCgQp_bXmYR6JKbWJd483bRq7glgHEzwCDgXLk&time_continue=139&v=lwZDm6tYgbU
“Right now we have this psychopath Baghdadi, so-called Caliph. He’s sort of a stand-in, he’s like a regent, he’s not the real thing. The real Caliph is Erdogan. You have to remember the Turkish Sultan was the Caliph of Islam up until shortly after 1920, after World War I. When the Ottoman empire collapsed, and there was no more Turkish Sultan, then this question of who’s the Caliph became hard to answer. And under Ataturk in Turkey they didn’t want to hear anything about Caliphs. But right now, given the fact that Erdogan and Davutoglu are adherents of what is called the neo-Ottoman school, in other words they believe in the restoration of the Ottoman empire, they would like to have as much as they can. Remember the Ottoman empire was Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, it was everything, all they way down to Yemen, so that is in effect what Erdogan seems to want. He is a mad man. He’s as mad as a hatter. And Davutoglu is the ideologue who tells Erdogan that all these things are indeed written, they’re written and they’re going to happen, they’re in the magic book of fate. So this is complete monstrosity.” – Webster Tarpley.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANyPxKoed2f6JshKLqRxWqRaPBMryJELCqNqrvMCgQp_bXmYR6JKbWJd483bRq7glgHEzwCDgXLk&time_continue=139&v=lwZDm6tYgbU
It sounds like the West/NATO want to restore the Ottoman empire and fulfill Erdogan’s dream
To me, this has the ring of truth. And if it is true, or only half true, Russia may be overwhelmed by hordes of jihadists.
The title is suggestive, if not inflammatory: “with enough love until the Great War.” Sounds like a treacherous love, not unlike Judas’s kiss of death.
Russia is very brave, but so far foolish in not taking seriously its own orthodox warnings. One example that comes to mind is not condemning usury, and outlawing it. Apparently, Russians think they can dance with the devil, go to his place afterwards, enjoy his civilized delights and not get burned.
I suppose most think this article is over the top and passe. Maybe it is; how would I know? I do know (not with certainty) that in the long game, the moral laws will prevail, maybe not in this lifetime to our short-sightedness, but as stated, in the long game.
The Love Army’s fifth division condemns usury, and fights against it. I’m with them insofar as I don’t take interest on my money. “Time will tell who has won and who has fell, and who’s been left behind, when you go your way and I go mine.”
Since I read about this coup, I’ve been wondering how this relates to the future conquest of Constantinople as Islamic Scatology teaches. Thank you Saker for the words of this greatly wise man.
“Muslim Eschatology” please correct the slip as it could be deemed insulting.
I confess to laughing….
Given the seriousness of the subject, an innocent mistake from a non-English primary speaker is a welcome relief – no offence to anyone or any belief.
I do not know where this gentleman is coming from.
Perhaps he has forgotten that before Mr. Erdogans’s apology to Russia that he had let Davutoglu go. It looks to me like he has altered his stance away from NATO towards Russia in order to save himself in addition to Turkey.
I am Catholic and I have a bunch of maps in the back of my Douay Rheims bible. The very first is a map of the lands settled by the sons of Noah. This map must be very ancient as the Sea of Azov isn’t even on this map-only a small body of water near the mouth of where the Sea of Azov now is. Anyway, Magog on this map is located north of the Caspian Sea (known as the Khazar Sea about a thousand years ago) to a a small distance between the Caspian and the Black Seas and then halfway on the northern part of the Black Sea. Between the two seas was Meshech extending down to the southern shore of the Black Sea where Tubal took over the first half of the southern shore of the Black Sea. Right on the western border of Tubal was ASHKENAZ. From what I have read, there were series of escapes from Judah due to persecutions at some point in B.C. Some of these migrants settled in the land which in the remote past had been know as Magog but by these later times came to be known as Khazaria. In about the year 760, the king of Khazaria, Bulan by name, had his whole nation convert toTalmudism (also known as Phariseeism or Judaism). In about the year 1046, Khazaria was destroyed as a kingdom by Svyatislov of Rus which later became Russia. The Hebrew nation of Judah was destroyed in 70 A.D. by the Romans during a yearly feast of the Judeans and not a stone was left on a stone. The House of the tribe of Judah was left desolate just as Our Lord Jesus Christ foretold them that it would. At least 90% of the Jews of today are Turkic Mongol Khazarians from the land of Magog and are the whole entire problem of this planet today. After Khazaria was destroyed in 1046 they migrated up to Germany, Poland, Russia and other Eastern European countries and are now known as the Ashkenazi Jews. They have migrated to all nations of the earth.
The reasons I have gone into this is to indicate why I think Mr. Erdogan has dismissed so many of the legal class and so many of those who instruct the young. These positions in the legal and academic fields are the first positions the Ashkenazi go after to bring their protocol plans to fruition. They must control the law and the perceptions of future generations. Look at the U.S. where the Khazarian Ashkenazi are only about 2% of the population yet have at least 3 known Ashkenazi on the Supreme Court.
Hence, I believe that the Ashkenazi through their puppets NATO, the U.S. government, and the E.U. governments hurriedly pushed a coup onto Turkey that they weren’t completely prepared for. Turkey, I am thinking like many others, was probably warned and I am thinking the warning came from Russia.
So this means what is known as Israel today is controlled by Turkish descendants (you said they are turkic). The difference is they follow Judaism for their faith as supposed to Islam. So, when Rome destroyed Judas Hebrew, those who fled could have settled in kahzaria and mixed with turkic?
Good info.
The part about civil war in Turkey could certainly be true regardless of Erdoghan’s true intentions. If he plans on going the Eurasia rout, you can be absolutely sure that the US/NATO isn’t about to let Russia have turkey. As Saker has always pointed out, what they can’t have, they burn. Turkey is extremely vulnerable to the exact kind of destabilization campaign that the Cia excells at. And they will apply it to Turkey full force of it is about to leave NATO. But it is such a valuable strategic prize that Russia should be prepared to invest a lot to help Turkey. Not because Erdoghan is a nice guy. He is a snake and deserves the worst punishment for what he has done to Syria. But because that is what Russian interests demand and there is no room for sentiment or grudges, even if fully justified.
Dear Imran Hosein, thanks for great short article…I hope you’re right.
If Gulen is a real sufi, I am Alice in Wonderland. He is what Sibel Edmonds says he is: a strict fundamentalist of the worst heretical sort, a criminal, a CIA asset, and also a billionaire funding the expansion of his miserable doctrines in thousands of funded charter schools and madrasas. So with all respect to the Shaykh, whom I admire greatly and am sympathetic to his Quranic-based eschatology, it might have been more exact to term him a fake sufi. Sufism is in any case opposed to Islamist hyper-fundamentalism. It is prohibited in S.Arabia, by the Taliban, etc. Moreover, there is Sufism and Sufism. Like everything else in the traditional worlds, there is a great deal of decadence and degeneration. For an example of real Sufism in the modern world, one can read the biography of the Emir Abd el-Kader, the great hero-saint of Algeria, by Ahmed Bouyerdene, translated into English. One should also read Martin Lings’ “A Sufi Saint of the Twentieth Century,” the biography of the great Sufi Ahmad al-‘Alawi. Lings also wrote a wonderful biography of the Prophet Muhammad.
You correct ,he is a fake, sufis are naturally anti wahabi, but he has ties with them.
With ragards to the guy called Waqas shouting polytheism or shirk on predictions of the Prophet.[peace on him] ,the fact there are predictions from the Prophet. The second thing is, his accusations of shirk /polytheism is an indication of someone who has wahabi beliefs,as wahabi accuse muslims of polytheism.
I wonder why no one speaks of the possibility that it was a false flag. Why else stage a coup at 9 PM on a friday. Better to wait while everyone is asleep and you have Erdogan in your control.
Also, many of the soldiers thought it was a drill. We know that many false flag events have drills the same day. To prepare the scene for the fake event. They claim: Oh what a coincidence that there were drills about terrorism the same day!!! etc… So, drills are a hint of a possible false flag.
Basically, Erdogan gets to carry out the total purge just like we were so afraid would happen in the USA with the fema camps and the NWO crap. So, now the elite get to see what happens when you purge all opposition. Like they did in Ukraine pretty much.
I wish Putin would come forward and explain what has happened in Turkey. Probably it wont happen though because he is playing a game also probably. I am losing hope in our political class.
JohnY, could you shortly line out which “miserable doctrines” does Mr Gulen spread? Only if we know this we can judge whether this man is good or bad for humankind.
As to Sufism: In the West, it has a better reputation than the ordinary Islam, because it is a mystic path, while the latter is mainly legalistic and moralistic, much like orthodox Judaism.
Most Muslims, on the contrary, think sufism to be something suspectible or even devilish… probably because they only feel safe on the legalistic ground.
Sufism was in fashion in the West during some time in 1980s, shortly after “Bhagwan was out of fashion” (there even was a SPIEGEL article on some so-called Sufi seminaries for Germans during this time) –
but its methods can be medievally brutal. There is a book (I read it during early 90s, dont remember the title) written by a Western female Sufi scholar whose master, a man called Bhai Sahib, submitted her to so many and so deep humiliations that I wonder how she managed to survive, and this bad treatment was a decided part of her spiritual training!
If Mr Gulen is deemd by you, JohnY, “not a real sufi”
because his doctrines are NOT that brutal,
because he is an advocate of human rights, for example of good treatment of women and kids instead of suppressing and humiliating them “for spiritual reasons”…
then I´d wish Gulen well and curse his enemies… no matter if he is an US shill or not…
but if it is not so, I´d judge differently.
To sum up, I think there is hardly anybody who knows enough both of Gulen and of Sufism to be able to grasp what is presently going on in Turkey. More details needed about both!
sufi masters quite often humiliate their students, especially the 2 or 3 per cent who show some kind of promise. breaking down one’s conditioning is necessitates immense strength and few ever qualify.
Thanks you “other 007 here”!
well, you seem to be part of the sufi community or stand near to it, so you know a bit about it…
Zen Buddhist and Shaivite Hindu masters do the same, they maltreat their scholars… some Shaman masters do it too… Jesuits of course too…
and I am thru some path that was not too different from all these,
except from the fact it was life itself and not some particular person who did humiliations to me…
Only because of this fact I accepted it as a viable path. Had the humiliations come from a person claiming to be my master, I would have rejected the whole thing as a fake and a trap.
I DID get transformed somewhat, so I partially understand the principle behind “brutal paths”,
but yet I neither understand nor accept that the “only” way to Heaven “must” go
thru this stinking filth of humiliation and induction of false-negative self -images.
Spiritual freedom to me still does not mean
to have lost all one´s own will and wishes to such an extent
that one delusionally feels free even in ball-and-chains,
no matter of all the true or false masters claiming this.
Such an idea would only mean betrayal, fraud.
I think there must be something better, not only in Heaven but also on Earth,
and I swear to God and the Planet I will find it, in this life or in a future one.
Until this time I will keep submitting to any spiritual path that brings me further – but not with a Nibelung-like sincerity (which all gurus demand, the true ones and the fraudsters) but critically, until I see it is no longer useful, or till I discover that it has central faults, and then I turn and walk away and tell all the world in which points is has been falsified by me. And I will read any book and any WWW site that seems to bring good info to me – until I see the opposite, and then I will do the same.
Lets keep searching for the Spiritual World Formula. It is more important for Earth than E=mc2.
It’s simple – if in a God believing religious society – the topmost level are religiously schooled people they – because of the responsibility and power they will have in their hand MUST proof their unconditional Love to God and the people they represent, so they must be the lowest of the low. they should have sakcloth as their clothing and minimal sustenance and minimal comfort. I would do this as well atleast for the initiation – total humiliation and even threat of death – for the leading caste. NOT to brutalize them but to let them show their unconditional devotion to god and his children. Simple really ! However torture as a schooled way to enligthenment is wrong in general (there are always exceptions) because it’s all to easy to misuse the method and create conditionend robots, which is of the serpent, ‘woe who corrupts, deceives my children !!!’. God is Live, Light and the Becoming, Expansion and not Restriction. Jesus meditated in the Desert – gathering his Spirit and Concentration. But he also said if your Arm hinders you in pursuing God, cut him off, figuratively speaking – of course the body’s arm is not bad – only the Mind can deny God not the Body which comes as the gift from God !
Re: “Most Muslims”
Most Muslims, on the contrary, think sufism to be something suspectible or even devilish.
That is the trouble with the web. People who know little or nothing feel confident in voicing their opinions.
Have you lived in a Muslim country? For instance, have you been to Morocco or elsewhere in the Maghrib?
Shaykh Imran Hosein has the hightest resptect for Sufism and calls it the essence of Islam. On what do you base your affirmation? Authentic sufism is one thing, American Sufism, like American “Buddhism” or indeed, almost anything American is non-traditional and fitted to the individual’s private tastes and proclivities. It caters to the American “spiritual supermarket.” Honorable exceptions exist, of course. And of course the authentic paths, to be such, in your mind, are “brutal.” So by all means join yourself to Gulen.
Anyway, you are welcome to your opinion, but don’t expect me to do your work of learning for you, nor expect me to engage in lengthy postings arguing.
thank you for clearing things up for me.
I didnt intend to insult you or anybody.
But there must be authentic spiritual paths that are not brutal, that do not need will-breaking –
or else the concept of freedom would be a lie in itself and slavery would be our inborn fate,
either with the more or less justified feelings of resentment which it causes in human beings
(this is why I think there must be real freedom, for wich reason could God have given us this elementary strive for freedom if it were an illusion or a lie?)
or with the delusional feeling of being free although one is not, although one has only lost his natural willpower by constant psychological pressure.
To add: I have nothing to do with Gulen, with whom you connected me; I admit I know only little about Islam generally; and I originally had no aversion but good feelings for Sufism,
but I reject the claim (no matter who utters it) that it is possible to induce freedom by unfreedom.
This is a contradiction in itself!
And I can tell you I walked this unlogical path of “obedience for freedom” two times in different systems, Catholic first, then a path from India, but it, unfortunately, showed to be the fallacy that Logic sees in it, both times. And on both paths I found hypocrisy and narrowmindedness all over.
what I do know is that we call God Our Father.
Either this is only a flattery for a dictator – or God is a real father.
A real, good father does not need willbreaking. Only dictators need it. And only they need flattery.
A good father will teach his children right from wrong and persuade them to follow the right path, and if they are unlucky enough to be unwilling to follow even after removing all justified counter-arguments which they may have, by reasonable discourse from human to human, he will let them go and leave them to their own foolishness, until they either return with better insight – or … go under. He may perhaps, sometimes, in smaller or dumber kids, make use of a slap in the face or something like that, but not to break the child´s will but to awaken him or her from an illusion, to induce a moment of mindfulness, of insight.
This is the only way we really learn. As individuals with intact wills, not by the false obedience induced by willbreaking. Pressure induces no learning, it creates only hypocrisy and causes a delay of learning. The original will of the individual almost always remains under the thick layer of dictatorial pressure, and once we have regained strength we will rebel and try to be as we originally were. (I am at that stage right now, and I know God wills it so – to make me able to fight… how can a will-less shell fight for any good thing, or even know what is good or bad?)
God bless you and all sincere seekers. I know you are one, because you got angry at me, the way I would have gotten angry when I still hoped, like you – just for knowing no alternatives – that Logic can be overthrown by becoming free by means of unfreedom.
@ JohnY:
“If Gulen is a real sufi, I am Alice in Wonderland. He is what Sibel Edmonds says he is: a strict fundamentalist of the worst heretical sort, a criminal, a CIA asset [etc, etc]”
* Sibel Edmonds, a name that came more than once in these Turkey stories… I wonder why… *hmmmm*
Sibel Edmonds was fine for while (back in the day, boilingfrogspost.com and all that, oh yeah, I know about her alright), but now she’s increasingly turning out to be more of a liability rather than an asset for ‘our side.’
Make of that what you will people… but at the mo [and for a long while now], she seems to be leading people astray.
What’s her agenda, who’s behind her, who are her handlers? I wonder…
-TL2Q
I personally have no evidence regarding Edmonds one way or another. She seems to be a very well-informed person and is well-known as a whistleblower. I was surprised, however, by her portrait of Gulen. I previously knew nothing at all about the man, but according to the wiki, he is an Islamic moderate and bases his doctrines on the very moderate Shafi’i school of law. Moreover, far from being a rabid crypto-fundamentalist, he sees sufism as being the essence of Islam. This is something no fundamentalist would admit. Also, the article categorically states that Gulen is not himself a sufi. He seems to me to be more of a modern liberal figure, and I can see why someone like Erdogan would fight him. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that he is a terrorist, aside from Erdogan’s accusations against this opponent of his. So I am surprised that Edmonds backs Erdogan, a patently megalomaniacal individual, so solidly. Yes, he was “democratically” elected. At any rate, I found her portrayal to be lacking in substantial evidence.
Yet another essay on Turkey,
[https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/07/joachim-hagopian/whats-going/]
which cites a very interesting youtube featuring SIbel Edmonds:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB8QbD-6Wjw]
It seems that Gulen’s moderate face is a cover for Islamist militarism. So says Edmonds. Turkey’s turn towards Russia is insufficiently explained here, in my opinion. This situation demands more time before its real nature becomes clear.
@ JamesW:
A very levelheaded response. Thanks for that, because critical thinking and/or common sense are so thin on the ground nowadays :(
And additionally, I agree with you that we need more time to gather more hard evidence before we jump to conclusions on this Turkey attempted coup. But what do we have instead? (Oh! I made the rounds around my ‘trusted’ alternative media sites)
A bunch of well known political analysts falling over themselves to be the first one to “call it” one way or another. No different from random commenters rushing themselves to call every single islamic terrorist attack in the West a “false-flag.” Funny… how islamic terrorists attacks in say; Iraq or Bangladesh are NEVER “false-flags” according to these nutters…
Talk about selection bias!
-TL2Q
article in telegraph today 19th saying “if Erdo doesn’t come up soon to our high moral standards, we will have no choice but to de-list him from the NATO roster”! LOL.
General gossip/rumor is that Incirlik power has not been restored, contrary to the ‘news’ sites.
That moved looked like a burned bridge move to me, such that Erdo can only advance further in the same direction as time goes by (& I mean days to weeks only, not some dragged out episodic burst timeline of years).
To that end, if correct, he will next soon order closure, first by cutting off power & airspace like Incirlik if only to prevent a blowback 2nd coup attempt surely coming, but this vacating could already be in the plans by USSA because what was that mass 200+ evacuation of personnel from Incirlik in late March all about?
This bases announcement note came barely 72 hours after their coup failed, & that had to be planned many many months ago.
So they likely will be using those 5 new bases to be built in Kurdistan N. Iraq as replacements for any closed bases inside Turkey. Scale & air distance can be seen here:
http://rapidis.blogactiv.eu/files/2012/12/kurdish-population-map.jpg
One of the bases will be set up in Atroush region, two in Harir region and two large bases in Erbil and Duhok,” the source, who called for anonymity, told Iraq’s al-Ma’loumah news agency.
http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/images/maps/IraqKurdistan_2003-2005_sm.gif
Apparently the US is flying sorties out of Incirlik but still no outside power.
The Kurdish region of Syria is now being called the Autonomous Kurdish region of Syria, so I guess the US has big plans there still. Actualy Sputnik calling it the autonomous region
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160720/1043316821/manbij-federation-northern-syria.html
When Liberated Manbij Will Join Autonomous Federation of Northern Syria
Was going to post about those bases – but you beat me to it.
I saw it earlier today on ekurd.net, but when I went back later to copy the link here, the item had mysteriously vanished….if intentional, too late.
Maliki is also in Northern Iraq meeting with Gorran (‘Change’ – Iran-backed and opponents to the Barzani clan, and other groups).
There are rumblings from the Iraqi government that the MoU signed by Barzani with Carter/US military violates Iraq’s sovereignty: I don’t think the autonomous status permits independent military decisions – certainly not the presence of a foreign power. So this could get very sticky…
Other reports say Turket has 18 bases in Iraq, so it’s getting pretty ‘interesting’ – to say the least.
And another item claims that Kurdish peshmerga tortured Iraqi soldiers before releasing them, so I wonder if there are attempts to start a ‘war’ on Iraq, leading to its partition – and a Greater ‘Kurdistan’.
Need to check this, but I have the impression Kurdish opposition in Iran is becoming more militant too, judging by several reports on the past few months.
Escalation?
We’ll see.
Let’s hope the YPD don’t do anything stupid – and that they listen to Lavrov.
One question no one asked neither in MSM nor here or in WWW:
what will now become of the refugees which have been interned in Turkey? We dont hear one word about their fates… some weeks ago there was vague hints of bad life circumstances in the Turkish camps but then silence again… are the internment sites actually Concentration Camps? Now that Erdogan can do whatever he wants in his Reich after his 20-July-of-1944 event, what will he do to those people? God help them!
I believe that genuine Syrian refugees would be welcome to return and help rebuild their country, under Dr.Assad’s wise policy of amnesty. Interview on NBC, the good doctor said Syria has need of its precious human resources.
@ Anon:
“[..] Interview on NBC, the good doctor said Syria has need of its precious human resources.”
Exactly!
This is the one thing the faux bleeding-hearts liberals never mention when they talk about the plight of the “poor refugees.” These so called refugees come from many places not just Syria, but why are these liberals – since they’re so humanitarian – supporting the brain-drain and depopulation of where ever it is that the refugees come from?
But more specifically on the subject of Syria; if Assad and his supporters prevail, they will need all the man power they can gather to rebuild the country the terrorists and their enablers destroyed.
Encouraging Syrian people to emigrate away from their land runs counter to their home-country best interests.
-TL2Q
very very wise words here indeed .
Interesting, but not especially convincing. I am pretty sure Erdogan is now on Russia and Iran’s side for real, and the war in Syria will consequently be wound down.
“I anticipated that those in the Turkish Armed Forces who opposed Erdogan, would soon respond to his present crack-down with public disclosures which would reveal information which he would prefer to keep hidden. The first thing I expected to emerge would be evidence that the Turkish claim that the Russian aircraft had entered Turkish air space was a blatant lie, and the Russian demand for an apology was justified! The next thing that might be disclosed was evidence of Turkish clandestine support for ISIS.”
We may soon know for sure. Wikileaks has just published a trove of emails taken from an AKP server.
The data-dump is interesting to say the least. I have been studying it all day today, you can view my first post about in the cafe at [url]http://thesaker.is/moveable-feast-cafe-2016-07-19/#comment-258698[/url]
I have found some bits and pieces about the events that took place before the coupe. I will post a google translation of a part of a file. I am very sorry about having to use google translate, it’s not all that good with Turkish.. Anyways, I don’t have access to a Turkish translator as of yet. If someone here is Turkish and would to like to do some research collaboration I would be most happy. That said, I know it would be a potentially dangerous task if you also reside in Turkey.
“Topic: Feton ORGANIZATION FILE: ‘feto, dirty tongs foreign intelligence’
From: “Special Bureau (dig.security.işnet ) Date: Jun 26, 12:08 AM +0300 ‘feto, dirty tongs foreign intelligence’
of the victims of a new MIT TIR events of habitable Izmir military espionage caliper former Foca Naval Base Commander Colonel Erdogan Feton that the subcontractor organization makes the dirty work of foreign intelligence services, said: “this building is a moment TSK’dan should be cleaned first. orders-in outside the chain of command rather have take orders from the army elsewhere, every moment a new MIT trucks examples of habitable island. ” said. Izmir military espionage conspiracy case, Feton inconceivable face is making games and dramatic day grievances. Navy’s most successful officers and 2012 the Supreme Military Council in expected to be promoted to admiral, calipers result of the arrest and 20 months in prison former Foca Naval Base Commander Colonel Omar Faruk Erdogan, Feton largest slaughter is made in the Marine Corps, he said the army should be cleaned as soon as this structure. ORGANIZATIONAL ASPECTS THAT should TRIAL Erdogan told Time, noting Feton that pawn an organization that undertakes the dirty work of the intelligence services of foreign countries, the TSK in one of the command-and-outside the chain of command can not be said of taking orders from another building, otherwise experienced in Adana he said MIT tractor trailers could be faced with serious incidents, such as tables. Erdogan, “This opportunity to give a moment ago in the Turkish Armed Forces, this structure must be removed.” The warning in bulundu.erdog, noting that people who tried the following, “Our expectations are also removing the guiding them to court.” he said. ENGLISH KNOW KUMPASÇI was noted that these objectives Feton selection alone Erdogan told dictated to them targets. Erdogan said: “How is that fitting in the Sledgehammer plan, some translated from English and is Turkish in no way take place on terms that are not money, it’s fitting plans for people who do not Turkish, English has people talking. When we look at here Feton but subcontractor level, is an organization engaged in the dirty work of the . ” religious beliefs ABUSE HAS BEEN Izmir those tried in military espionage case calipers, by exploiting religious beliefs Erdogan emphasized that the people had been deceived, “We would like to see the original trial, this one giving instructions and are transmitting them to take instructions. These are people who are against Turkey and the nation. They are in Anatolia the activities carried out before the goal is to erase the presence of several Turkish bunch. ” said. and also the effect on the leakage of the Feton TSK Referring to Erdogan, the largest slaughter of betraying the organization, said that the Navy. According to Erdogan, indicating that other forces too many officers and admirals in the Navy liquidated, stressed that infiltrated Feton some places in the Marine Corps. “It came to jail one of the caliper case, one of the opened front. This is totally close to them, the people command level can take under the influence was the forming operation will allow to take place. As a result there are people they will control in their community hierarchy of-motto of.” He said. TAF CLEANING FOR WILL NEED Erdogan Feton on how to clear TSK’dan also said: “I do not think you can do a cleaning for Feto Turkish Armed Forces in the army with its own mechanism. State jurisdiction, there are MIT. MIT them who There is evidence that it is. this information should be considered in the state mechanism.”
This message is hard to interpret at times because of the translation errors, but I think one can conclude some points:
– Turks believe FETÖ is working for foreign intelligence
– Erdogan et.al. were aware of the “need for purges” within the military and the intelligence service
– OR it could have been propaganda to get the support for the purges from the staff that was not included therein
It would be much more helpful if one could know the recipients of these e-mails, but unfortunately it’s not possible to know. However, we do know it is some kind of a mailing list for a discussion group.
Every muslim must remain a muslim, but abandon 1400 years of islamic thought, take only what zhis “shaikh” propagandizes snd pledge loyalty to orthodox Putin! REMARKABLE!
1. An important sentence in this article is the following:
“The immediate result of the attempted coup is to make Erdogan strong enough to better lead Turkey, on NATO’s behalf, in NATO’s coming war with Russia”.
From what I understand, Sheikh Imran Hosein is implying that NATO let the military officers who oppose Erdogan to carry out the coup, knowing that Erdogan would take drastic measures to consolidate even more power. This power can than be used by NATO to fight Russia.
As I have mentioned previously in one of the previous comment sections, I have found the entire coup mind boggling and very difficult to comprehend.
Why would a group of officers who do not command the entire armed forces, intelligence and police services carry out such a risky coup attempt in an almost suicidal fashion….with many commentators and analysts describing the coup as “amateurish”.
One of the constant factors we can conclude is that Erdogan knew about it in advance.
Most people have concluded that it was not a false flag, but indeed a coup, with Erdogan knowing about it in advance.
The false flag narrative has been ruled out due to the scale of the coup, the attacks, the number of dead and the number of officers who took the risk and have now gotten themselves arrested with the possibility of being executed on mass.
So who decided that this amateurish suicidal (for the officers) coup attempt should take place and why?
Did Western-NATO intelligence purposely stoop the secular coup plotting officers to conduct the coup, giving them hope and reassurances about the outcome, knowing well in advance that they would fail in their coup attempt ?
The possibility of this scenario has come up several times in my mind….
Did Western-NATO intelligence know that the coup would fail and that Erdogan had a list and plan ready to be implemented after the failure of the coup ?
Is Western-NATO intelligence so stupid and uncalculated that they would push the secular and/or Gulen officers to a coup believing they would actually succeed ?
Was Erdogan (and still is) in a secret agreement with Western intelligence to stoop the officers into a coup ? Making the coup not a false flag operation, but a kind of “booby trap” operation ?
2. Sheikh Imran Hosein then concludes:
“that recent events in Turkey will now culminate in the Turkish civil war which I have long anticipated”.
Does Sheikh Imran Hosein imply that a “civil war” in Turkey is what will actually be used by NATO to fight Russia ? So that chaos in Turkey will be used as a method to target and destabilize Russia ?
Because a “civil war” will surely not help “to make Erdogan strong enough to better lead Turkey, on NATO’s behalf, in NATO’s coming war with Russia” , or does it ?
Or is Sheikh Imran Hosein referring to this scenario:
NATO pushed coup ==> Erdogan reacts and gets tough (attempts to mend ties with Russia) ==> Ties with Russia does not matter because a civil war will start anyways ==> Chaos good against Russia ?
Out of the Turkish chaos several splinter groups MAY arise of which one or more MAY be hostile to Russia. The prophecy does not say Russia will take over all of Turkey, only Constantinople.
For those who have been following the prophecy, please note new SDR will become effective on October 1 2016.
In one of his lectures about the “malhama” (armageddon), the Sheik talks about the the USD, and how the USD will be replaced by money that is “not real”. Apparently the malhama will be waged not during the reign of gold or silver, but during the reign of this “artificial currency”.
SDR which is due to replace the USD is a calculation where each currency is represented by a %. SDR is an artificial currency…
Not sure what to make of it. Just pointing it out.
hmmm…
does the fact that the new SDR is a calculated currency justify the conclusion that it is meant with the unreal currency of that prophesy?
Not alone. If the calculations be truthful, honestly made, it is not. If they be rigged, it is.
Probably the Sheikh expects that SDE will be a fraudulent thing.
Euro, on the other hand, had a precursor in the calculated currency ECU which was used only in transactions between big banks or states, not by the people. This ECU was not an unreal currency, but only an additional tool designed to manage intra European currency balance.
But I feel really uneasy about what awaits us during the coming autumn and in Spring 2017.
For reasons of the news we all know, and also because I believe in the Irlmaier prophecy – to some extent, not literally or in every political detail.
(I mean that Irlmaier saw the negative military ground forces come from the area of Russia, but even if this were true, they could also be Chinese, not Russian, and perhaps the whole battle will roll out another way… but Germany will be affected the way he saw it, and the nature signs before and during this Mahakranti, this Great Cataclysm, which he said to happen in Germany will also show to be correctly seen… thats how I judge his prophesy. Political data from prophesies tend to be softer, less reliable, than such as associated with Nature.)
Irlmaier predicted, for the immediate time before WWIII and for Germany where he lived, a year with much grain and fruit and thereafter a winter which is none, with the meadow grasses standing as high as they would be in end of May so that the farmers can start making hay… as early as in mid April. During this unusual spring, WWIII shall begin.
The summer with much grain and fruit could be now, we got masses of fruit on every tree. An Irlmaier like non-winter already took place, in 2006/07, and it could happen again this year.
He predicted, moreover, that it will not start when news are all full of horror, as now, but at a moment when everything seems to be settled and OK again. The Latter Day cometh like a thief.
@ Harry_Red
I had the same questions with this speech of SHeikh Imran Hosein.
His suggestion that the recent events will culminate in civil war seems to me conctradictory with ‘ make Erdogan strong enough to better lead Turkey…‘.
When Erdogan really is now pissing on the US and in raproachment with Russia, the US and affiliates will unleash hell on Turkey of course in using the Kurds as vehicle and thousands of Wahabbi headchoppers. However this will not happen overnight but take some time to be developed fully of course. However I don’t think Erdogan is that stupid, he is to much a fox, he still has some aces up his sleeves regarding the US and will not force a total rupture. Turkey is simply to weak to just break free from NATO/US and I still doubt his raproachment is a real turnaround, but more a coming back to the status quo before the Suchoi incident.
So the only way to get the nukes off him is to blow them up.?
http://app.debka.com/n/article/25560/Erdogan-locks-US-airmen-nuclear-arms-in-Incirlik
Putting the Turkish coup in context – a video from December 2015 with SIbel Edmonds on Corbett Report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4QHsRuEE88
Erdogan has been marked for overthrow for sometime. The MSM has been used to create the impression that ISIS is a Turkish creation controlled solely by Turkey.
Who has the US got in mind as replacement? I don’t know. Gulen possibly as he has said he is ready to return to the country. However, one thing is 100% certain, the replacement vassal will be worse than Erdogan (based on observation of all US regime change procedures).
.
More context for the Turkish coup:
At the same time, a small group of ‘opposition activists’ to hostages in a police station in Yerevan. The regimechange goons (witing or unwitting, it doesn’t matter) are now out in force. It now looks like early Maidan.
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2856102.html
Erdogan is going over to Russia/Syria, Armenia is pro-Russia, Azerbaijan is probably safe enough for the US. The US is trying to totally block any non-US controlled pipeline from the Caspian to the Mediterranean.
i believe Erdo is still thinking of a pan-turkoman empire, reaching out to Uzbekistan, Tajikistan etc…..very long held turkomen dreams within those countries after the russian “retreat”…..
eg
BAKU, July 21. /TASS/. Azerbaijan’s Defense Ministry has dismissed reports about establishing a Turkish military base in the territory of the country.
READ ALSO
Russia maintains parity in arms supply to Armenia, Azerbaijan — official
Official calls Russian weapons supplies to Armenia and Azerbaijan “a deterring factor”
Turkish minister rejects reports he spoke about use of Incirlik base by Russian aircraft
Ex-Air Force chief Akin Ozturk takes responsibility for coup attempt in Turkey — Anadolu
Lavrov: Turkey developments have no effect on Russian Aerospace Force actions in Syria
“Media reports about establishing a military base of any foreign state on the territory of Azerbaijan have no grounds and do not correspond to reality,” Deputy Defense Minister Ramiz Takhirov said on Thursday.
Several media reported that a Turkish military base would be established in the territory of Azerbaijan. Last Wednesday, Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev signed a decree on adopting an inter-governmental protocol on leasing to Turkey buildings and facilities in the Gyzyl Sharg military town and a terminal at an aerodrome in the Hajji Zeynalabdin Taghiyev village near Baku.
Takhirov said that the aerodrome in Hajji Zeynalabdin Taghiyev has been used since 1999 for transporting Azerbaijani servicemen participating in peacekeeping missions in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan by Turkish Air Force aircraft. “According to the approved protocol, a building located on the territory of the Gyzyl Sharg military town and used since the 1990s was leased to a Turkish military attache in our country. This protocol provides a legal opportunity for those who lease the building to carry out repair and restoration works there,” the deputy defense minister said.
More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/889677
I think there are two analysis,
1.now Erdogan seems to anti-zionist, however as soon as he transfered turkey from secular to islamic state, he will serve for NATO, even if turkey leave NATO, but he use islam oppose christians.
2.second is what imran hosein said.
Believe me if Turkey make ally with Russia, the whole world will change! and I hope so! but I don’t believe that will happen!
Several Arab media outlets quoted diplomatic sources in Ankara as saying that Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization, known locally as the MIT, received intel from the Russian army that warned of an impending coup in the Muslim state.
en.farsnews.com
TEHRAN (FNA)- Arab media outlets quoted diplomats in Ankara as disclosing that Turkey’s President Erdogan was alerted by Russia against an imminent army coup hours before it was initiated on Friday, while a western media outlet said Erdogan asked his supporters to remain in the streets after receiving advice from Tehran.
Several Arab media outlets quoted diplomatic sources in Ankara as saying that Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization, known locally as the MIT, received intel from its Russian counterpart that warned of an impending coup in the Muslim state.
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950430001452
if erdogan is good guy, why did bbc broadcast the facetime interview? doesn’t it work for zionist any more?
A thought that came to me in this hot sweaty night when a storm approached:
Erdogan did know about the attempted dilettantic coup and did not prevent it but let it happen – in order to smash it down and thus consolidate his power.
Perhaps he even induced it himself, to have a justification for a great and bloody purge.
He must have learned from the story of Adolf Hitler. The German tyrant did his Great Purge of military ranks after 20th of 1944 but it was too late to save his tyranny from falling. Erdogan was “cleverer”, he is presently doing it at the beginning of his real dictatorship phase.
seems my sewaty-thunderstorm-nightly idea was not so bad… see this link: http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-is-behind-turkeys-failed-coup-erdogan-inside-job-us-gulen-op-or-joint-us-turkey-false-flag/5536675
http://www.anna-news.info/node/61278
link to 12 mins vid discussion re turkish ‘coup’.also re Nice, Armenia, Kazakstahn stuff
russian language.
—————————————-
US authorities have refused to extradite Turkish preacher Fethullah Gulen on the ground that among the materials that Ankara has provided Washington with accusations of his involvement in the military coup attempt in Turkey, there are no documents required for extradition. This was announced on Wednesday during a meeting with reporters in Washington, US Secretary of State John Kerry.
“As for Mr. Gulen, we consistently noted by our friends and allies in Turkey, which is the proof we need,” – Kerry said.
He pointed out that several once in a telephone conversation with Minister of foreign Affairs of Turkey stressed that the unsupported accusations Gülen is not responsible for the extradition requirements.
“We have a well-defined list of requirements that must be met in order for the extradition took place,” – he said.
at the same time, the head of the State Department He said that none of his ministry are not in contact with the Turkish preacher who lives in the United States. He noted that it is currently impractical to do because of the lack of an appropriate request by Turkey to the US Department of Justice.
As previously reported, Turkey formally asked the United States to request the extradition of preacher Fetullaha Gulen
http://www.anna-news.info/node/61346
google translate
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a perspective here
Analysts estimate the chronology of the recent military rebellion in Turkey, drawing attention to some important details. Attention is drawn to the following. Erdogan appealed to the people for help, and the help was organized and quickly provided. During Erdogan campaigned even preachers in mosques. The official Turkish version of the coup scheme: “It was organized by a small group of soldiers, which remotely manipulated Gülen – living in Pennsylvania (SSCHA) opposition cleric associated with the CIA.”
Turkish president’s plane did not leave the Turkish airspace, so he was visible on radar. However, the coup is not sent an F-16 for the destruction of the aircraft, and helicopters to attack a residence in Bodrum, where Erdogan at the time of the attack was not there. Meanwhile, Turkish President landed safely in Istanbul, despite the panic reports that the airport is occupied by the rebels.
The most powerful part of the Turkish Army, are Iranian and Syrian borders, initially took a wait. However, to 2 o’clock in the morning on July 16 the command of the army group declared its allegiance to Erdogan. “The game was over” when the Prime Minister Binali Yildirim announced the establishment of Ankara’s “no-fly zone.” This meant that the airspace over the capital came under the full control of the Turkish President. What the dream Erdogan in Syria, had to use at home.
The US position from the beginning of the revolt was very slippery. First, the US Embassy in Turkey, called the event “the Turkish uprising.” NATO officials filed an impenetrable silence. However, when it became clear that the coup failed, President Obama and the “Allies” announced “support the democratically elected government.” The first reaction of Erdogan to such statements was the strict demand for the extradition of Gulen. Base Incirlik also featured as a negotiating position. Erdogan threatened to expose Americans to this military base in the event of failure to do so.
Observers made a conclusion that is transformed into a different form as a result of the suppression of the rebellion, and further eliminate the discontented, “the Ottoman geopolitical project” of Turkey. The main enemy of Turkey will now not Russia or Israel and certainly not LIH (organization banned in Russia). The main enemy is “Kurdish autonomy”, which is carefully created by American military and political efforts. In the case of agreement between Erdogan and Bashar Assad with the mediation of Russia, the “losers of the Obama administration” may not be on the sidelines on the Turkish-Syrian border. Thus, the political bankruptcy Erdogan has a real chance to become a “sultan”.
Analysts believe that the restoration of relations with Russia and Israel turned out to Erdogan, the most powerful way. Curiously, in condemning the insurgency in Turkey joined not only Qatar, but also Iran. Regional political map can greatly transformed. Turkey, introducing the death penalty, put an end to its European integration. EU money for the containment of refugees have already been received or only reserved? These are the consequences of the failure of the CIA rough mission, which for some time postpone their dream of Turkey’s management with “promising colonels.”
However, the organizers of the coup in Turkey may have simply substituted? Another humiliating defeat of the Obama administration’s foreign policy in the struggle for electoral sympathies of candidates from different parties.”
http://www.anna-news.info/node/61318
google translate
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Turkish Air Force dealt a series of blows on the positions of the armed forces of the PKK operating in Iraq. According to indirect data, loss of the Kurds can be counted several dozen dead. Air raids of Turkish aviation in the skies of northern Iraq are regular, since it is located in the area of combat training camps of the PKK.
Armed clashes with the Turkish army “Kurdish separatists” in the territory of Turkey itself continues for a long time. In response, the Turkish raid followed the terrorist attacks. Kurdish rebels have resorted to purely partisan warfare methods, organizing ambushes and mining roads. Fighting for the Turkish army in character somewhat similar to the 1st Chechen campaign for the Russian army. Rebel armed groups to attack Turkish security forces who carried out harsh stripping.’
http://www.anna-news.info/node/61315
google translate
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check out?
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russia-turkey-could-form-big-eurasia-axis/ri15726
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russia-warned-erdogan-just-hours-attempted-coup/ri15760
but TASS denies that
http://russia-insider.com/en/french-intelligence-says-100-jihadis-still-join-isis-turkey-every-week/ri15755
http://russia-insider.com/en/erdogan-and-kemalists-against-gulen-and-us/ri15717
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OK so is this the connection between the Guelen charter schools in the USA and a network of schools in Turkey—like, these are basically opposition madrassas? But still Islamic, that is, in theory violating the idea of Turkey as a secular state with, presumably, a nonsectarian school system . . . Banning academics from traveling abroad and advising those abroad to come home to Turkey doens’t sound so appealing. So, will any academics who choose to remain abroad now be labeled Guelinists or some such? Sounds like a lose-lose proposition for all academics and teachers.
:
From Truthdig quoting another source):
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/turkey_closes_over_600_schools_fires_thousands_teachers_failed_coup_2016072
“Turkish state media reported authorities are acting to close down 626 private schools and other educational establishments, in the latest step of a crackdown after last week’s attempted coup.
The schools are linked to exiled cleric Fethullah Gulen, who set up a network of schools across Turkey to promote his teachings.
Also Wednesday, Turkey’s higher education council announced a ban on academics traveling abroad and urged all of those currently abroad to return home quickly.
In addition, Turkey has banned academics from leaving the country and urged those traveling abroad to return home.”
Katherine
For those that discount the reality of religious eschatology:
Islam opines that in the last age a false messiah will attempt to impersonate the true messiah. This essentially means a new secular world order (novus ordo seclorum), with secular specifically inferring an order opposed to God’s noble and wise way of life). Is it by coincidence that a secular order emerging out of Western Europe with an obsession to attempt dominion over the globe, whereas before it hadn’t impacted on world history at all. It essentially overcame (by hook or by crook) the major powers in the world AND at the same time deceptively imposed its own version of a civilised way of life rather brutally. The irony! In fact it not only overwhelmed the major powers of recent history, it is perhaps the only civilisation responsible for the supplanting of the indigenous people on three continents of this earth. Precluded is the theft and subjugation of millions of African people for the purpose of slavery. A very ominous world order indeed! How does the Quran introduce Gog and Magog, they commit great oppression on the earth. The bible in Ezekiel states, ‘Son of man, set your face against Gog, from the land of Magog’. These warnings are self explanatory. That this overtly Christian western imposed domination would reconcile with a overtly Jewish but predominately atheist Talmudic Zionism is a coincidence?, particularly, having been the antithesis of each other for one and a half thousand years. Anti-Jewishness was a European phenomenon, hence, the unholy alliance. What made Europe (particularly, the West) host to this cancer of Zionism, racial supremacy and the ego of Jingoism. The prophecies indicate that the false messiah’s most potent weapon would be usury. Is this global economic subjugation a coincidence? It will covet the worlds resources to build itself into a formidable entity (John Perkins – confessions of an economic hitman). This ill gotten wealth will be used to build a formidable military complex as well as overwhelm mankind with a consumerist and materialistic worldview, underscoring the spiritual and religious way of life. Is this a coincidence? That the modern instruments and technology would dazzle the world yet be used as a psychological basis to lead mankind into its orbit of influence. That the industries of media, arts, medicine, fashion will be manipulated to serve its agenda. That the cornerstone of society, the family will be so attacked to break up the very cohesiveness of mankind. Is this not an attack on the spiritual essence of man? Is this not an attack on his very soul itself. The Quran declares, ‘None shall enter the garden of bliss, except those with a wholesome heart’. Is this not a challenge and a warning to us to desist this secular world order, it’s self serving interest, otherwise the corruption of the heart and soul becomes endemic rendering peace, contentment and happiness obsolete. Verily, in the remembrance of the Almighty do the hearts find peace. What is the divine nature of the soul? Does this detachment of the divine essence result in our discontentment? Do you think that we created you in vain and that you would not be returned back to us (Quran).
Is it by coincidence that the false messiah using Gog and Magog would return a people back to the Holy land after an expulsion two thousand years ago, to reclaim it as their own. Sheikh Imran Hosein has to be given credit for this understanding of the second and last mention of Gog and Magog in the Quran). That they would be the proxy to weaken Israel’s neighbours and lay the groundwork of Israel’s expansionist designs. That they would strengthen this illegitimate child into a fully grown power armed with nuclear weapons. Do we even have to recall our senses to understand the brutality of this venture. Is this barbaric expedition not a mirror image of the West and it’s colonial era. Is this unravelling of history the musings of a nomad in the desert or of a great teacher who was the true messiah as the Quran declares or are they a divine admonition and a guidance of things to come.
Finally, that the false messiah will attempt to become the ruling state in the world and fully deceive a people. Perhaps, this does point to the inevitability of a global conflict that will render major powers today much weaker and thus strengthening Israel’s hand. A similarity with the diminishing of world powers post WW1 & 2 and the birth of the illegitimate child. How will this play out is a difficult science and not in my capacity at all. I have only written the above to highlight the legitimacy of the science of Islamic as well as religious eschatology. A branch of science emerging and enduring in this pivotal age.
Important note: I have generalised terms such as the West. This does not mean all people but in a general sense will play a significant role. It also precludes the people who have benefited and enriched themselves in the Islamic and Eastern countries. It also precludes the distinction between the Western Christians and the Eastern Christians of whom I envisage to play their role as the more sincere Christians. Not to mention the unholiest of alliances and a great prize indeed of capturing the middle east’s regimes and wealth and proxy actors and armies. The nature of the larger Sunni world and the minority Shia world exerting their influence. That would be a book of which I am incapable. May God give us strength and insight. Lastly, one must learn from who he can of the good and wise knowledge. I have benefitted tremendously in Sheikh Imran Hoseins pioneering study of Islamic eschatology. Credit is where credits due. May the resistance continue. Truth will by its nature overpower falsehood.
‘Blessed is he in whose hands is the kingdom of the heavens and earth and he has power over everything. He who created death and life that he might test you, as to whose deeds are best among you’ (Quran)
Beautiful….Mashallah !
Mr.Hosein has good insight despite the belief system he so desperately clings to. I actually like the fellow, against my better sendibilities.
Mr.Hosein has good insight despite his belief system. What of this war he references? Does it relate to the Queen and Pope’s dire warning that last Christmas is our last?
Cui bono the coup?
right now on our German tagesschau it was reported that German politicians demand of Merkel to quit the “shabby deal” with Erdogan (I didnt hear all of the report,I think a deal about money for refugees was meant about which there had been many disputes in German politics) and to get the Bundeswehr soldiers off Turkey, because now it is a dictatorship and a state with which Germany cannot do proper negotiations anymore.
well, now our Gov´t can keep its money for itself and our own refugees… the failed coup thus is useful to it.
Moreover, I heard today that Turkey is one of the very few states which will soon manage to pay off its last IMF credits and to be debtfree toward IMF then;
while Germany is far from this lucky result, although it always was and still is one of the world´s most productive and industrious countries –
because Germany was the “Zahlmeister” (the one who pays) both for EU and USA / Israel during decades.
Perhaps part of “those above” in our country got enough of this situation, and now start reducing their intgernational Zahlmeister role at the easiest point:
Erdogan´s Turkey,
which has been provoked several times before (by the Boehmermann “satire” affair for example) …but only during the time AFTER the “shabby deal” – I think maybe because of that deal!
it is not about “Erdogan and Russia”. I think Russia does not trust Erdogan / Turkey for one cent. Remember: Erdogan´s Turkey let thru all those infamous convoys of trucks to ISIS in Syria.
Yeah, the deal will be cut AFTER they have payed for it most. The German Government is EXACTLY like a dog, they will be humiliated again, and again. The fantastic thing is Angie seems to really like it, she must be on a very-very special mission, really !
I do feel that an alliance between Russia and Turkey should prevail to counter the European/Nato/Zionist alliance and advance. This alliance will require strong and courageous leaders especially having both lost the trust of each other during the ottoman and soviet epochs. It also presupposes that both have a sincerity to their respective orthodox traditions, are sincerely anti Zionist and will attempt to foster a diplomacy that is conducive to their mutual interests in an emerging multipolar world. Only then can they challenge the machiavellian west, challenge its client regimes and not be subject to their corrupt will, and thus by extension exert utmost pressure on the head of the snake itself, zionist Israel. This challenge may have to evolve in difficult and trying circumstances as many have suggested and wont be easy at all. I do feel it is the way forward and should be our mode of influence, despite bitterly entrenched views.
Sheikh Imran Hosein suggests (this may need clarification) that this alliance is not necessarily a friendly one but one that is based on mutual interests. Bigger things are at stake!
Very disappointing comment based on improbable assumptions. It has become very trendy among ignorant journalists to write about the “certainty” of WW III being in the making in the hope to better sell their lines.
I think Putin knows Erdogan more than western leaders and even so called muslim leaders. When Putin opened the biggest mosque in Moscow, Erdogan attended the opening ceremony. I do believe Erdogan has good intention in allying muslims with christian orthodox Russia and that does not serve the zionists. So they framed Turkey in downing the Russian bomber… Putin is not stupid and knows NATO downed his bomber and kept secret relation with Erdogan. When Erdogan apologized openely to russians for something (he did not do) the zionists decided it was titme to military coup him. He was warned by Putin.
This is exactly what happened.
This guy doesnt know what he is talking about. I have watched a video of him saying that Ottoman Empire was dejjals, I think he is getting old or getting paid by Russia.