So they finally did meet as the OSCE had wanted. Who “they”? Well, whomever the junta invited, but not the representatives of the southwestern Ukraine, that’s for sure. The BBC made it look really “diverse” with this photo:
 |
| The beauty of “diversity”- all that is missing is a Ukrainian Hare-Krishna |
I have found no list of participants. All I know is that the one key party to any such negotiations was not present. I am not sure whether this was because the proud junta did not want to talk to “terrorists” or because the said “terrorists” did not want to talk to the “occupying power” of their sovereign state. What is certain is that such “negotiations” are a total waste of time, which nobody in the Ukraine can afford.
According to one website “the talks lasted 2 1/2 hours and ended inconclusively”. Amazing? What could they possibly have “negotiated” about and what kind of “conclusion” would anybody have expected?!
Anyway, if you find out:
1) the list of people attending the talks and
2) what topics were discussed
I would be most grateful if you could post that info in the comments section.
Many thanks and kind regards,
The Saker
Maybe a Hare Krishna female would cover a distinct lack on both scores. But these are strictly kinder, kuche , kirche type of guys that organized this photo op. By the way antiwar.com just got hacked they claim by someone in the Ukraine right as they began their fund drive.
Hunter Biden?
I would like to know who all of those guys wearing funny looking hats and the big beards are in that photo?
Is that supposed to be representative of 25 Ukrainian oblasts?
@Anonymous: By the way antiwar.com just got hacked
I wish I could say that this breaks my heart, but it doesn’t. There are a lot of good people writing for antiwar.com, but the folks in charge are, how shall I put it? Well, judge for yourself:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2007/11/reflections-on-antiwarcom-debacle.html
The Saker
A log for the fire…
http://pando.com/2014/05/14/sorry-america-the-ukraine-isnt-all-about-you/
How about those UN choppers in Ukraine? I really do wonder if there will not be other out of place military artifacts found used by the Junta. NATO grade poison gas perhaps, a tactical nuclear device, a few rockets, anything to goad Russia into war. The collapse of the Post-Soviet order is going to be very bloody.
More mainstream or at least Western media outlets turning against D.C. neocons preferred Narrative:
http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/International/Revelations-on-the-Krasnoarmeysk-killing-564127
Paris Match magazine IDs one of the gunmen present at the Krasnoarmeysk murder filmed by multiple cameras as Andrey Denisenko, one of Right Sector’s key figures and a local boss in Dnepropetrovsk whence came Timoshenko and Yarosh. The crew identified themselves to locals as being part of the Dnieper battalion sent to prevent ‘separatist activity’ but Kiev has denied Dnieper was in the area and Kiev Post state-run media has dutifully repeated this denial without question, even as some pro-UKR journos tweeted it out with suspicion on Twitter.
Not only did the thugs show up driving Privat Bank vans acting in their capacity as Privat Bank oligarch (and dual Israeli citizen) Igor Kolomoisky’s private army.
Several Privat Bank branches including some in Mariupol were burned down and the banks branches have closed with Donbass rebels demanding that none of its loans be enforced by the local authorities if locals default — this was featured in a video filmed by Vice reporters on the ground. I suspect Kolomoisky’s biznis empire at least the Donbass portion of it and of course all his branches in Crimea are shut down, meaning his enterprises must be bleeding out cash quickly. It seems to me Kolomoisky makes for the ideal moneybags through which to launder CIA or other foreign funds for these death squads, and hence for now perhaps Igor doesn’t care how many PrivatBank branches burn at the hands of enraged Donbass citizens — CIA will make good on the losses in settling up with Lloyd’s or some other insurance house.
American Kulak
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117692/fascism-returns-ukraine
BTW, the hackish Brit Yale historian Tim Snyder just published an article for the New Republic 3 days ago claiming that Right Sector is a boogeyman conjured up by Russia’s propaganda machine that has maximum 300 members. Well apparently if they only have that number they’re mostly in the Southeast including Yarosh in the National Guard meaning they’ve been entrusted by Kiev with not only Kalashnikovs but armored vehicles and rocket launchers. Another neocon lie bites the dust…I wonder if Snyder and Leon Weiselter will have an embarassing huggy photo op with Svoboda Party members? Maybe they can compare notes on Wolfsangel armbands and how these represent anti-Russia resistance rather than the SS?
…and more importantly, another EU media outlet contradicts the Narrative, in the same week as Der Spiegel and Bild am Sontag reporting the 400+ American Greystone merc boots on the ground while the company, Kiev and D.C. deny everything.
http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/International/Revelations-on-the-Krasnoarmeysk-killing-564127
The French photographer at the scene of the shooting who helped to ID Andrey Denisenko also said many of the Dneiper battalion thugs refused to speak when addressed in Russian, which would explain why some people tweeted out that locals shouted ‘Blackwater!’ and questions at them in English and they remained silent.
At this rate, with the Donbass rebels indicating that they plan to go on the offensive and take the gloves off rather than remaining in a defensive posture, while Kiev is sending in actual tanks on flatbed trailers, more bloodshed is in the cards. Hopefully the Donbass rebels brought their Koronet antitank missiles courtesy of ‘friends’ on the other side of the border because they’re going to need them unless they can hit those T-65s when they’re still on trailers or bottled up in urban areas. Kiev doesn’t need tanks unless it plans to shell apartment blocs.
American Kulak
“The All-Ukraine national unity roundtable meeting began on Wednesday with most of the southeastern representatives not in attendance. Most of the 40 representatives were from Kiev or Western regions, Kommersant reported. Key speakers at the meeting included acting President Aleksandr Turchinov, acting Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk, former Presidents Leonid Kravchuk and Leonid Kuchma, former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, and former speaker Vladimir Litvin.
During the meeting, the chairman of the Party of Regions, Aleksandr Efremov, stated that the east does not recognize the current Kiev government as legitimate, reminding of the importance of carrying out proper reforms and adding that the east might be willing to accept ‘decentralization or federalization without the right to exit’.”
(Russia Today)
In my opinion this is just a photo op to tell the world: “Look we are not Nazi’s, we are so tolerant”.
In my opinion this is just a photo op to tell the world: “Look we are no Nazi’s, we are very tolerant and multi diverse”. Its staged. It’s too obvious.
Here is a partial list in german: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-runder-tisch-mit-osze-beginnt-a-969357.html
@Saker
In the news in my country this morning they stressed the fact that no representatives of the south-east were present at the meeting (they called it round-table even though the picture clearly shows otherwise).
In the news they stressed that Rinat Akhmetov would need to be present, because he runs the Donbass. Their point was basically that no solution about the south-east could be reached without him. I don’t know much about Akhmetov, but isn’t that exactly the kind of figure that stands in the way of democracy and self-determination? What’s your take on this? Could he play a positive role for the south-east or is he part of the problem?
Kind regards
David
Hello Saker,
I once sent you a video of Nuland and Pyatt, and called it ‘a gem’.
I have some videos to share now as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvixppJqOvE
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vATUVASx8ug
Привет од Македонија
Saker , surely you mean ‘south eastern’ not ‘south western ‘!?
Maybe there is some movement behind the scenes? (Too much fighting is not good for corporate profits, as even Kolomiskiy’ may now be learning)
1. Donetsk self-defense gave Kiev 24 hours to withdraw, http://rt.com/news/159048-donetsk-ultimatum-troops-withdraw/
2. Foggy Rasmussen pointedly reminded Kiev NATO won’t (officially??) help with intelligence, equipment or any collective defense; and
3. Turchinov says Kiev may stop its military crackdown in Donetsk if local militias lay down their arms, although I think he’s said that before Both latter in http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/
When Brezhnev and friends wanted a delay or opportunity for sleight of hand, issues were addressed to the Supreme Soviet.
Dear The Saker,
I presume a PR stunt for the EU/US press:
From RT 23:37 GMT:
“The All-Ukraine national unity roundtable meeting began on Wednesday with most of the southeastern representatives not in attendance. Most of the 40 representatives were from Kiev or Western regions, Kommersant reported. Key speakers at the meeting included acting President Aleksandr Turchinov, acting Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk, former Presidents Leonid Kravchuk and Leonid Kuchma, former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, and former speaker Vladimir Litvin.
During the meeting, the chairman of the Party of Regions, Aleksandr Efremov, stated that the east does not recognize the current Kiev government as legitimate, reminding of the importance of carrying out proper reforms and adding that the east might be willing to accept “decentralization or federalization without the right to exit.”
In addition the water crisis in Crimea continues and the lunatics are forgetting the impact this will have. They are utter fools:
From RT 12:44 GMT:
“Kiev’s decision to shut off the water supply to the Crimean peninsula is “mockery of common sense,” Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman, Aleksandr Lukashevich, said.
“We regard this as an irresponsible move, which will be duly despised by the population of Crimea. I want to note that the overlap of the channel will lead to environmental degradation in the Kherson Region and the whole of the Black Sea water area,” Lukashevich stressed.”
Rgds,
Veritas
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-14/ukraine-just-issued-1-billion-bonds-backed-us-taxpayer
Also on the wsj site, nothing makes money like servicing debt. Ever seen the movie The International?
It’s “Obama’s legacy”: You can putsch lipstick on a fascist pig; but he’s $TILL A FASCIST PIG!
K @ 11:18,
I get this message from YouTube:
“This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube’s policy against spam, scams, and commercially deceptive content. “
when I try to access the first video you listed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvixppJqOvE
What was on this video? Can you describe it to us? Or do you have it at another location online?
I can see the second one fine, and have used auto translator to read the text below the video.
Thanks,
M.
BBC is a british bogus corporation an instument of british proapganda and misinformation and always roots for british war on others.
kill all bbc journalists who are spies.they caused mass murder in libya and syria. they were direct cause of those mayehm
UN chooper was nto there by accidnet.
uno has been a n angloamerican stooge for last 25 years. dismantle uno atleast russia shoudlnto think that veto wiull give her any advantage.
uno is to legitimise angloamerican war crimes.
15/04/2014
It is clear now that at least Israeli double citizen was responsible for burning of people in Odessa.
what I don’t understand is that during late 70s and early 80s the british and american propaganda machinery used jews as a stick to beat USSR with calling for release of so called Reufniks- now after garbachow , jews were free to leave russia then how come they still lingered on to loot whole of USSR during the yetsin era?
why were jews not forced to leave for what they had been agitating for in the Soviet era.
lavrov is a useless talker with a lot of vague words -when waht is needed is a straight talker like deputy defense misnter like razzon.
medvedev and lavrov single heandeldy ressurected Nato during libyan treachery.
Does anyone here know about IMET? Here is a quote from Renee Parsons in today’s CounterPunch:
“Evelyn Farkas, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Ukraine and Eurasia, did provide some moments of enlightenment regarding heretofore obscure details including a 20 year US-led International Military Education and Training (IMET) program in Ukraine. Her testimony also described how the US is bolstering its military presence in the region under the title of ‘De-escalating the Situation with Russia” which might seem contradictory to some literary nitpickers. Farkas informed the Committee that 330,000 MRE’s (meals ready to eat) had already been provided to Ukrainians in the field (but not to America’s 20 million homeless children) and funding of “$50 million for new programs to address emerging needs in Ukraine” in addition to the already announced $1 billion loan guarantee and $18 million “security assistance.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/14/the-senate-and-ukraine/
Saker!
There was video which showed an hour ago that for murder of the deputy Tsarov the award of $1000000 was appointed, but it disappeared then with youtube
http://russian.rt.com/article/32025
http://www.online812.ru/mm/items/2014/4/25/0027/123.jpg
this is the president?
Russia, Gazprom, and gas prices…
I’ve been thinking a bit lately about Russia, Gazprom, and gas prices. I’m thinking that Russia needs to think about how they set the price of gas. They should consider a two-tier pricing system; the first would be a market price, and the second be a higher, NATO price. The higher price would help offset the additional threat that said country imposes on Russia. So, how would this work?
The first price would be the normal market price. This price would be the best price available, and would be given assuming the following conditions are met.
1. The country is not a NATO member.
2. The country does not send troops to any NATO exercise, nor do they host any foreign troops or foreign military equipment at any time on their soil. (See #4)
3. They do not participate in any foreign military action, except those approved by the UN Security Council.
4. Foreign troops would only be allowed in case of natural disasters or similar emergencies. Russian participation should such events occur would be mandatory, should Russia choose to participate.
5. Failure to uphold all four conditions would automatically trigger the higher price for the duration of the contract.
Most, if not all of Europe would likely choose to default to the higher NATO price. But there would be a price to pay at home since residents of said country would be aware of the higher prices they are paying to prop up NATO and to antagonize Russia.
This is my first comment here and I will begin by stating that I am impressed by the level of discussion here and hope that I can add something useful to the group.
In an earlier post Saker stressed the importance of the referendums in Eastern Ukraine and I want to add that I believe they are truly revolutionary because direct democracy scares the hell out of those who control what passes for democracy in most of the countries of the world including Putin.
The reason the representatives of the breakaway regions in Ukraine were excluded was because the so-called Peace Plan requires them to surrender their weapons, abandon their buildings and give up their right to vote for autonomy before they can join in this farce, in effect surrender.
What is truly troubling about this plan is that their supposed ally Russia has rejected them and is turning them over into the hands of the Fascists and neoliberals.
The only hope for all the people of Ukraine is that now that they have been abandoned the resistance, to the Kiev Junta, in the east will spread to the west and the original goals of the Maidan demonstrations will be pursued.
@VINEYARDSAKER
BTW… The “folks in charge” of “antiwar.com” are a pack of self-avowed screaming homosexuals from the S.F. area “led” by “their” Raymondo… That much about the moral standing of that site of ill repute.
The recently leaked video where Kolomoisky threatens Zarev that was removed from YT can be found here:
http://lifenews.ru/news/133257
The bleeped the swear words out…
Another leaked video, regarding the video posted by Radik.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vATUVASx8ug
Boris Kagarlitsky, no fan of Putin, observes:
By Boris Kagarlitsky, translated by Renfrey Clarke for Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal http://links.org.au/node/3832
— The preliminary outcome of the revolt in south-eastern Ukraine can be described as an unstable equilibrium. Attempting to crush the Donetsk republic with the help of their armed forces, the Kiev authorities have met with defeat. The army, as expected, has refused steadfastly to wage war on its own people, and the forces of the Right Sector and National Guard have clearly been insufficient to cope even with the militia, not to speak of the mass of protestors.
There is no basis, however, for speaking as yet of victory for the Donetsk Peoples Republic. While Kiev’s “maximum plan” has consisted of quickly restoring control over Donetsk and Lugansk, its “minimum plan” has rested on restricting the open insurgency to these two provinces. It is this minimum plan which, however ineptly, is being implemented.
The militia members succeed from time to time in seizing new buildings or in raising the republic’s flag over new populated areas. These small victories raise the spirits of the resistance and in a minor way improve its tactical situation, but do not create the conditions for a strategic breakthrough.
The Donetsk and Lugansk activists would do well to recall Lenin’s much-cited formula to the effect that “defence is the ruination of a revolt.” Their actions, however, are based on a particular view of the situation, a view that is organically present not only in the movement’s leaders, but above all in a substantial section of the masses in the Ukrainian south-east. The insurgents are convinced that all they need to do is to hold out for a certain time, and Russia will then come to their aid; if this does not take the form of direct military intervention, some other mechanism will be found.
Unfortunately, every passing day since the beginning of the revolt has shown how illusory these hopes are.
In the thinking of the activists of Ukraine’s “Russian Spring” there is no particular gap between the Russian authorities, the Russian elite and society in general; the latter is perceived as completely uniform apart from a small number of liberal oppositionists, isolated within their own country. It is striking that while these activists have an excellent grasp of the contradictory nature of the political and social order within the Ukrainian state, they fail to see the identical contradictions in the fraternal country.
Interview with a ‘defector’/patriot:
http://rusvesna.su/english/1400016725
Saker, it seems the Kyiv roundtable was children acting out what they had seen adults do – a playground antic which self-respecting EU pols wouldn’t be seen at. Why were the kids doing this? The adults had talked about things the kids didn’t understand and spoke in low voices which the children couldn’t hear.
Back in early May Lavrov met with Didier Burkhalter:
“Sergei Lavrov strongly called for the use of the OSCE potential to influence Kiev with a view to cancelling a military operation against the population of Ukraine’s southeastern regions,” the ministry said in a statement.
Burkhalter took up the idea and soon Merkel was on the phone with Putin, Burkhalter visited Moscow (May 7), Steinmeier was involved and French Ambassador to Russia Jean-Maurice Ripert spoke in support of the initiative. All was going well, statesmen getting to the core of the problem. The kids recognized that the adults would probably make them stop their silly games and responded like worried children:
“Before the Moscow trip of the Swiss foreign minister, the Ukrainian minister presented our roadmap; we have one and it significantly differs from what was said in Moscow,” Yatsenyuk said after a visiting government session in Kharkov on Wednesday.
“The main difference is that our goal is bona fide stabilization in Ukraine which is related to one thing only – the position of the Russian Federation. If Russia calls off its sabotage groups, stops supporting and funding them, and pulls back troops, Ukraine will stabilize,” he said.
Yatsenyuk hopes that the OSCE will pick the Ukrainian edition of the roadmap.
“I think the roadmap devised by Ukraine will be the foundation of the resolution of the Ukrainian crisis,” he noted.
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_08/Kiev-draws-up-its-edition-of-settlement-roadmap-2826/
Here is the text of Burkhalter’s speech of May 12 He remains hopeful for his plan and wants to make it work:
http://www.osce.org/cio/118509?download=true
This story has more details of last week’s diplomacy: http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/05/14/ukra-m14.html
German diplomat Wolfgang Ischinger, who was appointed as OSCE co-moderator of the Ukraine’s roundtables, doesn’t seem to be anywhere in the room on May 14. This gathering is all Kyiv and no OSCE. Tymoshenko, Yats, Tihipko,
Tyahnybok, Turchynov … There were lots of cameras in the room but there isn’t much coverage yet.
This clip pans the room a bit so lots of the participants are visible. No indication this isn’t just a Kyiv local story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAldPBxlGMY
This clip includes remarks by Sergei Taruta and a report that plans are afoot for another such affair in Donetsk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Edf9DaY-Xs
N.B. After watching the roundtable video YouTube surprised me with this option, a short very lovely song by Mozart:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd5nFd3utLg
Civil war has just started!
Slaviansk map:
http://www.voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/voina-na-yugo-vostoke-onlain-15-05-2014-.html
List of events:
https://arbaletfire.livejournal.com/200336.html
PRofD Army attacks NatGuard militia in Slavyansk (live)
http://rusvesna.su/news/1400173868
The comment by “anonymous” at 15 May, 2014 15:29 where he says to “kill all BBC journalists” should not have been allowed, don’t you think?
AAccording to the Wall Street Journal article the meeting of “national dialogue” lasted more than two hours and, I quote, ” many participants were veteran politicians who delivered lengthy monologues and attacked each other’s policies.” They agreed to another meeting but date and location was not set. WSJ 5/15/14 page A-11.
Yes, the Bourne Foundation which owns and runs antiwar.com is rabidly anti union and pro the gold standard per the Austrian school of economics, but they did tell the truth about what happened in Odessa. They don’t seem to see the problem of surplus value as an inherent flaw in capitalism.
Hunter Biden, yes, that is his name and is the youngest son of Joe Biden.
Russia Dumps 20% Of Its Treasury Holdings As Mystery “Belgium” Buyer Adds Another Whopping $40 Billion
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-15/russia-dumps-20-its-treasury-holdings-mystery-belgium-buyer-adds-another-whopping-40
YouTube film highly recommended
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCe43V3XFc
A World War is Beckoning
by John Pilger
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/14/a-world-war-is-beckoning/
Re: giving credit where credit is due and the folly of name calling.
As for antiwar.com: they were one of the few sources of information in 2003 against the criminal invasion of Iraq and they have been harassed by the FBI. maybe a little solidarity on these two points is in order. As for the sexual orientation of some or all of them, hey, I live in California and I could care less. Although, an Orthodox Jew would have them stoned if he could.