by Mister Unknown
When Sino-Russian collaboration is discussed in the media – be it western, Russian, or Chinese – the most-often discussed areas of cooperation are energy (e.g. the big gas deal last year), defense (e.g. Russian arms sales & joint exercises), and more recently, the new Silk Road as part of the Eurasian integration effort. It’s perfectly understandable that these are the focus items in the press, since they’re the “big wins” with big dollar amounts and lots of photo ops/media sensationalism attached to them. However, there are other potential areas of near-future collaboration that are relatively smaller in scale, but would be just as strategically significant and mutually beneficial. Three such potential paths for cooperation come to mind right away: joint use of space launch facilities, shipbuilding, and industrial robotics/internet of things.
1. Space launch facilities
There have been recent discussions of very ambitious Sino-Russian collaboration in space, including the possibility of a joint lunar base. It’s great to see that both sides are thinking big and long-term, but there are short-term arrangements that would yield immediate benefits, and pave the way for further joint space exploration. One such short-term win would be for China to allow Russian access to the Wenchang Satellite Launch Center on Hainan Island, which completed construction in 2014. Wenchang is located significantly closer to the equator than Russia’s other commonly used cosmodromes, be it Plesetsk, Vostochny, or Baikonur. This geographical advantage would allow Russian rockets launched from Wenchang to have significantly greater payload and fuel efficiency. In return for the use of Chinese facilities, China could seek a usage fee, or a discount on RD-180 rocket engines if that purchase goes through. Since both sides already established a precedent on joint facilities use for Beidou and GLONASS ground stations, this would be a logical next step.
2. Shipbuilding
The recent Mistral debacle has shown that France is a politically unreliable defense partner for Russia. This is a potential opportunity for China to step in as an alternative supplier. China is in the process of developing its own Type 075 LHA. At an estimated 30-40 thousand tons, the Type 075 has a bigger displacement than what the Russian Navy originally had in mind with the Mistral purchase, but it will no doubt enhance the Russian Navy’s ability for rapid amphibious deployment and fulfill its operational needs. Russia could order one or two Type 075s for quick deployment, and acquire a co-production license for indigenous construction and customization. An alternative model for collaboration is for Russia to help finalize the design of the Type 075, as it did for the design of the PLAN’s Type 054A class frigates – arguably the most successful frigate design in the PLAN to date, then acquire the co-production rights in return, and start indigenous production (with Chinese supplying parts as needed). There is no doubt that Russia could design and build its own LHA eventually, but China’s Type 075 could offer a faster path towards a Mistral alternative. For China, in addition to the incremental revenue for its shipyards, becoming a supplier to a first-rate military force – especially a supplier of big ticket naval items – would be a huge prestige boost to its defense industry, and open the door for further defense collaboration.
Beyond the immediate benefits to both sides, such a project (along with others) would pave the way for a new model of Sino-Russian defense cooperation. In the past, the cooperation model consists largely of one-way export of arms and technology from Russia to China. As the PLA & the PRC’s defense industry continues to modernize and close the gap with the US & Russia, this existing model will inevitably become less appropriate between the two partners. A new model of defense cooperation should focus on joint R&D, 2-way technology sharing, and institutional exchange. There are signs of this happening in the form of a joint helicopter development project & more frequent joint exercises; shipbuilding is yet another area to implement this new model.
3. Industrial robotics and IoT
Industrial automation and Internet of Things (IoT) adoption is by far the most high-impact area for collaboration. Both countries are facing demographic problems that could potentially hinder their long-term economic development. China’s population is nearing its peak, and will soon go into decline – not a bad thing given the resource & environmental pressures it’s facing – but this will result in a workforce shrinkage that is already driving up wages today. On the other hand, Russia has been suffering the impacts of a shrinking and aging population ever since the disastrous 90s. Despite signs of recent demographic recovery, Russia’s wage growth is still outpacing productivity. Industrial automation and internet of things will be crucial mitigating technologies to offset the demographic impacts in both countries.
The good thing about IoT in the industrial/public infrastructure space is that most such devices (especially edge devices) do not require cutting edge, best-in-class semiconductors; the low-end micro-controllers needed in the majority edge devices are well within reach of China’s domestic manufacturing capabilities. Both automation and IoT adoption have recently taken off in China. Given Russia’s highly educated population, along with a thriving software and IT industry, there is little doubt that with the right investments and strategy, Russian companies can capture a lucrative piece of the approx. $1 trillion dollar IoT software & services market – around 50% of which resides in Asia.
The bottom line here is that both countries have strong incentives to advance automation and IoT sector, and both countries possess – to some degree – the comparative advantages needed to pursue said incentives. Hopefully Cybernaut’s recent investment in Skolkovo will be a sign of things to come in both hardware and software partnership.
Overcoming barriers
With any form of large scale collaboration, there will be no shortage of logistical, political, commercial, cyber-security, and cultural obstacles that could obstruct the path towards deeper partnership. However, there is reason for optimism given that precedents for constructive partnership already exist in all of the aforementioned spheres of interaction.
Mr. Unknown [contributing author at http://blog.
From bad to worse for the Russian economy:
Russia-China deal on 2nd gas route postponed – media
https://www.rt.com/business/310451-gazprom-cnpc-gas-deal/
And on top of that Russian gas is going to be completely replaced by Iranian gas in Europe…
And oil is headed into the 40s, possibly 30s once Iranian oil hits the market.
Iranian gas is going to India and Pakistan. India has enormous need for oil and gas. Irnain part of pipeline connecting India with Iran was comleted years ago, it stalled on Pakistani border due to American protests. Well that part of pipeline is going to be completed soon, plue there is no pipeline connecting EU with Iran at the moment or LNG ports, which also takes timeto complete. There is a lot demand for energy in the world. Ajnd news about postponment of pipeline contruction is nothing “from bad to worse” for Russian economy. It is just postponment perhaps due to Mongolian interest in hosting pipeline because of the mountainous region the pipeline is about to go through. In any case Europe will need to compete with the rest of the world for either Iranian or Russian gas in the future, and that is true for other commodities as well.
Some of you people are way too hysteric.
The oil price will not stay low for long. The current oil price, is way lower than the marginal cost of production worldwide. A slight rise in demand (which is virtually a certainty) and a slight decline in global production will restore the oil price at a higher level. The media and Wall Street have milked the whole oil glut story to the maximum (I need not explain the reasons) but sooner or later, reality will hit home. Shale producers, heavy sands and deep offshore are all losing money basically, so a correction in oil prices is only a matter of time.
The 2nd Russia-China pipeline deal will still probably go ahead anyway. There was tough bargaining before the 1st deal as well, and there will be the same thing now. There is nothing new or strange about this, it’s just good old business. I would expect a breakthrough when Putin meets Xi in Beijing in September. It was on Chinese soil that the 1st deal was made also.
As for Iran supplying China? Why should Russia be worried about that? China is a massive market and will only grow with time, there is enough room for both Iran and Russia in relation to mega-markets such as China/Europe/India. Remember than gas production in other parts of the world (especially Europe) is declining or set to decline pretty soon. The Iranians and Russians are coordinating behind closed doors how to divide market share between them on all fronts. What do you people think? That Russia and Iran will allow the gas importers (especially the treacherous EU) to play them off against each other? It’s mutual self-interest.
Some links as to how close to annihilation US shale production is: http://wolfstreet.com/2015/07/21/its-happening-debt-is-tearing-up-the-fracking-revolution/
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-02/shale-drillers-about-be-zero-hedged-loss-protection-expires
http://www.smh.com.au/business/shale-oil-why-wall-street-lenders-are-losing-patience-with-us-energy-revolution-20150721-gihoic.html
Also, keep in mind that Canadian heavy sands are even more expensive to produce than light tight oil (shale) :
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-16/profit-to-tumble-to-decade-low-at-canadian-oil-producers
And several off-shore production sites are also unprofitable at current prices. To varying degrees: Brazil, Angola, Colombia, North Sea etc etc etc…
Russia (along with the Gulf States) are the lowest-cost producers in the world and can sustain the price war longer than anyone else. One must always keep that in mind.
One more issue here. The EIA, have probably been lying about US crude production for months now (exaggerating it of course) Once the truth is revealed, then a higher floor will be placed under the oil price.
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Forget-Media-Hype-Oil-Set-To-Rebound.html
Rig count has collapsed in the Bakken: https://www.dmr.nd.gov/oilgas/riglist.asp
Shares of the oil producers in the S&P 500 have halved during the last 12 months despite ZIRP (Zero Interest Rate Policy) and a massive upswing in the broader market:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=XOP#{“allowChartStacking”:true}
Well completions down sharply:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/22/usa-northdakota-drilling-kemp-idUKL5N1022F420150722
So, once again, never believe media hype. You have to look hard for concrete data. I think that I need not point out to this blog that the MSM are full of lies and nonsense.
Stavros, an excellent exposition. Low prices are destroying the fracking bubble in the USA, and when the junk-bonds involved in financing that Ponzi scam implode, it will be the next sub-prime mortgages disaster. Moreover Saudi Arabia is burning through its financial reserves, and that evil regime, hopefully, is cutting its own throat. Unfortunately demand won’t return to normal because the Western economies are collapsing under austerity, inequality and debt, and, if we really wish to avert Near Term Extinction through anthropogenic climate destabilisation, then hydrocarbon use must rapidly fall.
Anything “bad” about Russia is “good” for management perception.
Dear The Saker,
Finally, Govt. commission gives green light to reciprical impounding of foreign property.
https://www.rt.com/politics/310373-government-commission-approves-reciprocal-impounding/
Along with the Russian law above foreign laws – slowly but surely Russia is protecting herself from the West and its ludicrous court cases etc.
Rgds,
Veritas
If there is one constant on the Vineyard, it is this:
Nearly all stupid comments come under the commenters Anonymous.
Not that all A’s are stupid. No. But today’s top offering is either stupid, trolling or ignorant of what is the economy and what is a fact or a report of things in motion (negotiations).
To make their point, they latch onto a stupid thought and embarrass themselves by posting it.
Virtually all the time. On any subject.
Their defense of course is there is no arguing with Stupid.
And your argument is?
Fact: oil is headed back in the forties. Putin had said, right after the Ukrainian coup, that he did not see how oil could go below $80. At the beginning of the year, the Kremlin said it drafted its budget at $60. Oops!
Fact: Iran’s oil will soon be released on the market.
Fact: Europe wants to rely on Iranian gas for its needs. Look at a map. Nothing can stop this now.
Fact: Russia and China only signed a “memorandum of understanding” on the western route last year and that has just been suspended.
That’s the first time, I think, I saw someone referred to future events as “fact”, which was not religious dogma.
Your concern for poor Russia and China is overwhelming, i bet they wish they too were $18 trillion in the red.
Pretty rubbish and unimaginative handle you’ve concocted for yersel there………. btw…….. I mean Anonymous, what’s that aw aboot ? Away and catch yersel on ya roaster.
Brilliant analysis! Europe does not want to rely 100% on Russia for gas and oil, so they decide to rely on Iran 100%!
I think the Charette troll has been fed enough
You honestly think that Iran will decide to rely on EUnuch Europe rather than India etc. for it’s gas market?
Last request, don’t feed the troll
Fact: Oil could fall down to zero for all I care. That will not make marginal producers around the planet (especially in N. America and offshore Africa and LatAm) any less loss-making. The exact opposite in fact. Russia is a low-cost producer of both oil and NG, it is others that should worry.
Fact: Iran can’t simply boost production at will. New investments must be made that take both time and money. Moreover, oil production doesn’t just reproduce itself. There are natural decline rates (especially shale) The low oil price will decimate marginal production at some point. It is inevitable.
Fact: You think that Russians and Iranians are stupid? Have they been supporting Assad against the entire West and the Gulf kingdoms just so that they would allow the rainbow clowns from the EU to play one against the other? They are coordinating how they will split the Eurasian gas market between them. Iran is not a western protectorate such as Qatar or Norway. Iran has been fighting the same struggle as Russia has been fighting and being that much weaker, has suffered a lot more. They will not sell out now that they have prevailed (with Russia’s help of course)
Fact: Long-term and massive investments such as pipelines linking Eurasia take time and involve hard bargaining, nothing new here. And China is not the only market that Russia will be supplying. The Germans (who know all too well that Russia does not budge that easy) have already agreed to the extension of Nord Stream. India, Turkey, Korea and Japan are all interested as well.
I’m going to ask everybody to stop posting replies to Charette’s trolling.
I generally took those posts as trolling from anti_Russians or imperialist trolls who just want to constantly badmouth Russia and knock down any work towards countering the hegemony with ‘Russia is terrible and is losing everything’ nonsense.
Of course the demand growth for gas in China is slowing as the US and EU consumer becomes more poor and buys less. All the claptrap about a booming US economy which refers to either phony government figures or increase in phony money in the speculative markets can’t hide the western economic crisis which has tentacles all over the world. And naturally as BRICS shifts their economic bases there are some downs as well as ups, and various disruptions to be expected.
blue, the excellent WSWS has a good deal of fine reporting on the real position of the US economy, which is collapsing under record inequality, record debt, stagnant if not falling wages, tens of millions of working poor, crumbling infrastructure and the implosion of the fracking Ponzi scheme. The root cause in most of these catastrophes is the financialisation of the US economy which has substituted the speculative machinations of the money-lenders for real production. That, of course, particularly benefits one tiny group, whose name dare not be mentioned, who have three millennia or so of experience in extracting loot from their victims by playing on their victims’ greed and credulousness.
I haven’t been going to the excellent WSWS much lately — my machine and ISP is so slow I cant cover all I used to, but the sick US economy is covered in many places. RD Wolff was talking about it months ago, for instance, and so are MMT professors, and a bunch of other economists. and analysts. Or just look at the real economiy’s numbers instead of the phony Wall Street hype. This has been going on for over 30 years, and is in the process of culminating in a really huge crash. Looks to me like we are going to see what would have happened in the 1930s if FDR has not save capitalism with the New Deal.
The Powell memo and the think tank’s destruction of the left was like putting a penny in the fuse box (Hedges talks about it with The Death of the Liberal Class). It’s not a shift of money, but the destruction of the tangibles, education, and skilled worker force. It may be too late now even if the empire and plutocracy were suddenly enlightened. The real debt isn’t the money but the industrial and cultural future.
blue, the ecological debt, ie stealing our descendants’ future to feed the insatiable greed of the parasite castes and tribes now, and the spiritual debt, in that Free Market capitalism normalises psychopathic behaviours, and glorifies them in the ‘celebrity cult’ (eg for the trend taken to its ludicrous extreme-Donald Trump)are worse debts than that of mere money.
“The recent Mistral debacle has shown that France is a politically unreliable defense partner for Russia”.
The recent Mistral debacle has shown that France is an unreliable defense partner for anyone.
Is that why they’ve sold a record amount of dollars in armament, including over 100 Rafale fighter jets, since January?
This comment is a factually incorrect troll. The French have sold orders, not sold actual aircraft, for 84 Rafales, not “over 100”. These are the only Rafales on order outside France of this type altogether since it went into production several years ago. Only 3 countries have placed the orders and all of them reduced their initial requirements for the fighter. Egypt went down from 24-36 to just 24. In Qatar the initial 72 aircraft requirement was reduced to 24. India, the original 126 plane order was canceled and replaced by a much reduced 36 plane one. The Indian order is still not finalized. About a dozen other countries had considered buying the aircraft, but rejected it for various reasons.
Corruption amongst government officials in purchasing countries might also be a factor.
Good luck to those countries keeping an independent foreign policy AND enjoying a reliable supply of spare parts for those jets . .
China and Russia both have many of the world’s best software engineers – although to date many of them have relocated to the USA in search of lucrative employment. And China currently manufactures a large proportion of the world’s computer chips, hard drives and other basic components. What the USA still maintains is a choke hold on the IT industry’s management, sales and marketing. Yet the parts of the IT industry based in Asia are more fundamental and essential than the essentially parasitic parts that are still American. Looks like a very big opportunity with potentially enormous pay-off.
Mi last Laptop was a Hewlett-Packard.
“Made in China” , of course.
Lasted two years until breakdown , 900€
Mi actual Laptop is an Acer.
Also “Made in China” , of course
Lasts for the moment over 4 years , still running , 400€
China has put people into orbit and brung them down again to earth in one piece.
That is something most western countries did not achieve yet.
This is very encouraging. I get the impression recently that Russia and China are embarked on scientific and technological development paths that are aim at new paradigms and great leaps on the scale of order-of-magnitude changes. I don’t see the equivalent vision coming from the US and Europe. It’s just an impression, from many different articles, I can’t provide collateral at the moment.
I’ve always heard that large-scale projects spin off multiple smaller side-technologies and sub-projects. The US space race developments, for example, were said to produce many unrelated technologies. I’ve never actually studied this, but it makes sense – it seems to jibe with our life experience of innovation. So, having Russia and China collaborating in grand technological visions with distant horizons implies to me a great deal of middle-ground development also.
Dear Saker.
As has been mentioned already, and as you can see, the Anonymous doomsayers always jump in first trying to derail real discussion, and as we see, it works.
I’ve advocated from the beginning to disallow all Anonymous comments, and one day perhaps you may review the situation and conclude that asking for an invented name, such as the one I use, and an email address that can gladly be phony, is really no imposition at all upon serious people who truly want to discuss the implications of the articles you go to so much trouble to publish. It is simply not a rude thing to ask, nor a burden on any serious commenter here.
You struggle hard to improve the quality of your published information. I wish you would grant your devoted readers the same ability. Let us all identify our comments with an invented name, so that we can work together on improving the quality of discussion here.
Yesterday I rejected as many comments from “anonymous” writers as those who selected an individual name for themselves. Most “anonymous” writers write good comments here. Just as most “named” writers do. The problem isn’t the form of naming people choose, but trolls who attack the site. These are of both categories and making some rule about picking a name to write here will not do anything to solve the trolling problem. Trolls can pick random names as easily as serious writers can. There isn’t a “mass cure”, it requires detailed, individual attention. Like organic gardening pest control.
You’re the moderator – for which, many thanks! – and you have your point of view but I don’t entirely agree.
I stand by my claim that forcing a simple name to identify comments will make discussion easier for all of us, and improve the quality of the threads. An anonymous comment is a one-time, disposable remark. A named comment gains cumulative value over time, gives us recognition at a glance of an individual’s point of view.
Further, we see that where they’re forced to use a name, as in Disqus, many trolls keep that same name, especially if they don’t get challenged directly. If they have to choose a new name, at least this places the overhead where it belongs, on the troll trying to fit in, rather than on the honest others trying to sift out the junk comments. A name allows us to identify low-grade commenters at the start of their comment and not waste time plowing through their anonymous remarks.
I hope my name allows the many people who must surely disagree with my viewpoint to ignore my comments immediately without paying them much attention. This is a decent courtesy that I think people who take names are happy to extend.
For these reasons, I submit that It still has much more merit than detriment, to force names and eliminate anonymous comments.
Hi Grieved.. I used to think that too..and said so a number of times. and then, a little later on a different thread Saker said he didn’t mind people using ‘Anonymous’ to write their comments…and there were so many Anonymouses that day that it was actually touching….who knows where they live and under what conditions….that they want to keep their anonymity….
I understand. But You are are still anonymous to me, even with the name Ann. Similarly, Grieved is not my given name, and the shocking truth is that I’m using an alias ;)
The point is that all comments are anonymous anyway. So the anonymity aspect is a straw man, moot. The requirements to add a name seem as light a burden as can be. It’s pretty common anywhere to have to use a nickname to join in a discussion, this can hardly be surprising. I will say it would be nice if you didn’t have to supply an email, but that’s an IT thing that may be beyond anyone’s control here.
I’m arguing that the benefit to all commenters from being able to identify viewpoints at a glance far outweighs the generosity of allowing everyone to post without even having to invent a simple name and a made-up email address which will never be verified.
I understand Saker’s sense of hospitality to all comers in this regard. I’m arguing that it rests on a wrong premise, and does more harm than good. I argue this because I suspect that more authentic commenters turn away at times – myself included – because of Anon trolling, than turn away because the requirements of offering one’s opinion are too great a burden. So the trolls win.
I comment rarely on any venue, but I always use a tag attached to my real name. If you check it out you can look me out in the local phone book! I don’t have a website. I don’t invite individual replies (most of them would be scatalogical, I think!) But I would like a means for thoughtful persons to respond to me individually. Haven’t found a means for that yet.
So I’ll sign with my real name here. PS I’m in the phone book! Trooooollllls don’t call me, I’m not home!
Until now, James Morgan, was known as Jim of Olym or anonymous.
Thing is, if I write comments that someone takes objection to, they can write back”
‘ Blue — you’re a poopy head: you keep ranting on about how great socialism is and you don’t understand at all how it works, and you’re last post proves that…’
People get to know where I stand. Maybe some would like my stance on socialism and better understand a comment in the context of what else I had written. But that can’t happen with anonymous. And I can’t look at the heading and see a post was written by ‘Obama-is-great’ and recognize that I don’t want to read any further. Or see a post is from BotTak or UncleBob and make time to read it. Handles for posters serve a good purpose, by providing continuity and context (a ‘body of work’), and can save time.
Dear Moderator, good points. Also, as I emailed one of you, there’s the problem of mysterious entities taking over one’s username and posting with it, “anonymously”. That happened to me and freaked me out… I didn’t want to defend stuff I didn’t write! I think the mods are doing a great job here, and believe me, it’s weird when someone just takes your “name” and starts posting completely unrelated stuff for reasons unknown. Thanks again to the patience and understanding of the mods! I know there’s probably no one with the time/resources to check every IP of every comment.
That was, maybe still is, a common tactic at RT comments. Often you could tell the difference but it was annoying and dishonest — although it marked those who did that as trolls and liars, and actually harmed their camp. RT’s comment section is junk anyway.
Anonymous(!)
Deliberately using the name of someone else on this site isn’t allowed. If you see a post under your name which you didn’t write, simply post a request for a moderator to look into it right under the comment in question. If you choose a common name, such as bill, and someone also picks the same name later, that could also be an unintended coincidence. Use of a more unique name avoids such accidents.
If you go to Walmart you see a lot of Chinese junk sold — stuff that doesn’t hold up, silly gadgets. I recently bought a replacement Taylor fluid thermometer with a bracket from the hardware store for outside the window; the ones at Walmart had a suction cup, which would not last, or expensive digital things, or which could not be seen from inside if mounted outside — typical junk.
On the other hand I have some inexpensive Chinese made tools which hold up fairly well, some excellent but inexpensive Chinese LED flashlights, and some cheap but good quality Chinese kitchen knves. China can make good quality things, or junk stuff as cheap as the importer wants them, for US consumers who have no clue about how to buy things for value instead of shiny glitz.
As consumer markets shift, selling garbage to Walmart is going to become harder as Americans run out of money, so there will be a need to retool some manufacturing to make products for people based in reality instead of consumerism. The Japanese did something similar so that goods from there are now associated with quality rather than garbage as was the case in 1950s and ’60s.
As the US hegemony fades changes will be needed to accommodate new markets and needs, and new modes of selling, and advanced manufacturing methods. Of course, finance will have to also be adjusted. These changes are in progress now, but will take a little time. It’s important to rethink the situation and not fall into old predator capitalist ways or let the empire infiltrate the system and extract wealth and exploit people as usual, and to find better metrics to track progress and economy than the what imperial speculators use, which essentially measure only how much money the wealthy are getting.
What is needed are different systems and different paradigms, not transplanting the empire eastwards.
blue
When a western company negotiates with a Chinese manufacturer, they provide exact specifics for what they want in the product’s design. Often, the western company does the design work and gives the Chinese firm the particulars. If the resulting product is shoddy, it is because that is exactly what was worked out in the contract between the Chinese manufacturer and the western company which placed the order. In almost all cases, it is the western company’s desire for profit that resulted in the low quality product – they simply did not want to pay the extra expense for better quality. This is how businesses work. They weigh the cost vs quality vs projected profit vs consumer gullibility (marketing), and select the manufacturer who best fulfills these parameters, minus usual capitalist corruption among the upper management (bribing, bonuses). When the public gets pissed off at being ripped off, these parasites then blame China for making rubbish products. The rip-off artists rely upon this zio-media enforced/phony patriot meme to scam the public about who is actually ripping them off.
Thank you for explaining this. I thought everyone knew this but apparently not. Completely true, China is where the US offshored its manufacturing base, and all those jobs. The management and design remained stateside.
Now I gather, China is taking its own manufacturing up-market, and wants to compete in higher-end markets. Soon we’ll see the shift in attitude we saw with Japan, which long ago made “cheap crap” until they became the only cars we could trust in the US, and made all our electronics too.
Where the US manufacturing goes from here, I’m not sure. Maybe back to the US at slave wages. I recall a line from a Joni Mitchell song:
“Who you gonna get to do the dirty work, when all the slaves are free?”
As Joseph Needham showed in his monumental Science and Civilization in China, the Chinese have long been amongst the most innovative people on Earth. I don’t see how that could have changed. The Russians are not far behind, and chuck in Indians and anyone else interested in scientific and technological research not connected to either the military or improved techniques for disseminating pornography and brain-dead ‘celebrity’ tittietainment in the US model, and you have the intellectual power-house that will, one hopes, deliver humanity from its man-made ecological, social and humanitarian catastrophes. The USA enjoyed a tremendous bonus in recruiting great minds and ambitious immigrants due to European and then south and east Asian social unrest and war, but as the country crumbles into inequality, debt and social savagery, that advantage won’t last much longer.
вот так, it’s a little more subtle than that.
China has many levels of manufacturing capability. Typically, a final product producer’s supply chain – raw materials, components, sub-assemblies- as well as himself are all working at more or less the same level. Each producer has his horizontal network of vendors who produce at the quality / price level he’s working in, with Guanxi taking care of any problems that arise.
A professional Buyer knows his product(s) and will choose the appropriate level for the quality-price matrix he’s targeting. If he’s got lots of “on the ground” experience, he may find chains that are better than the others at a given level.
Unless you’re buying in the top tiers, contracts are meaningless, and there’s little point in negotiating quality levels. Quite simply, if you’re trying to buy below the appropriate level, the vendor may have little idea what you’re talking about but they’ll agree to everything to get the business. The quality will be appropriate to that level, but may result in people cursing “Chinese quality”.
The vendor won’t understand why the Buyer’s complaining. The Buyer tried to buy cheap, but all he did was buy at the wrong level.
It appears we have been infiltrated by one or more “Empire loyalists” today.Makes me feel like I’m back posting on the Guardian.
There are few points to consider in response to their “doom and gloom”.
1.The World is in a Worldwide economic slowdown.So why would Russia and China not also be effected by it? Of course they are.
2.A look at a map shows that the countries where any “Empire” backed pipelines would have to go through are mostly unstable.After spending billions building those lines they could literally be “up in smoke” at any time.The only fairly secure gas pipelines are from Russia,a direct route into the EU.
3.Unlike the massive economic problems in the West,which are mostly internally driven.The economic problems Russia is facing are heavily the cause of US/NATO attacks on Russia’s economy.A very,very,big difference.If posters need to bemoan Russia’s problems.Its important we clearly understand the cause of many of those problems.
4.Its important to ask ourselves,”why” we are debating problems caused ,not by Russia herself.But by attacks on her by her enemies.As if they were “Russia’s problems”.If we look at the West’s economic disasters can we say that “any” of them are caused by a malicious attack from outside sources?No,we can’t! So other than wondering maybe why Russia hasn’t responded likewise to Western attacks (as they possibly should).There is no value in attempting to use Russia’s economic problems as a ,”see they have a bad economy” argument.
5.Are there other ,”non” Western attack, problems in Russia’s economy? There certainly are,no one can deny that.And are they repairable? Yes,they are.
6.Russia is the biggest country in the World.With the largest natural resources of any country in the World.She has a larger population than any two of the most populated European states combined.The Russian government has the support of at least 89%-92% of her population.And she has the largest and by far most powerful military force in all Europe (and one of the three most powerful in the World).She is number 1 or 2 (depending on who you ask) in Nuclear Weapons in the World.There are no “problems” that Russia can’t overcome in the long term.Certainly,it will take “work”,and “will”,to overcome them.But they ,unlike most of those in the West,can be overcome simply with those two elements.
The low price of oil is unpleasant for Russia, but it’s largely a symptom caused by decreased demand from teh west because of EU’s lousy economy. Similar for China’s drop in production and sales: it’s the result of horrible economy of the west. Both are also the result of Russia’s and China’s entanglement with the empire — but they are working on becoming independent of that. With a little luch, when the empire collapses financially it will be a mild ripple for BRICS and friends.
blue, I always enjoy the malignant stupidity of Western propaganda thugs when they gloat over China’s rate of growth ‘falling’ from >10% to 7% at present. Some of the dumber and more vicious cretins speak of China’s economy ‘contracting’. All wishful thinking by Western racists, xenophobes and supremacists driven to inchoate and incurable rage by seeing a non-Western power rise to global eminence.
No country can grow at 10% pa forever. In time their output would comprise 99% of the world’s. An economy of 6 trillion growing at 10% pa produces an extra 600 billion, whereas an economy of 15 trillion need only grow at 4% to produce the same 600 billion. But the Western MSM presstitutes are employed for ideological reliability, not intelligence or charm.
I haven’t seen but a few minutes of it yet, but that much looked rather good and interesting (caution — from Discovery Channel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMF9MXKnQDE&list=PL85_kd1C5PC7kNWt0QmYEfcteNiSJsT1c
Discovery How China Works 运行中国 （运转中国） 01
[part 1 of 3]
blue, the Chinese are following the precepts laid down through five thousand years of civilization. The demand by Western ‘Judeo-Christian’ supremacists that they MUST run their societies as the West does theirs, is simply arrogant belligerence, so typical of the West. The Chinese will not be bullied, and the tiny handful of loathsome compradores, scum like Ai Wei-wei and Liu Xiao-bo that the West pretend represent the Chinese people, have no support inside China, save from fellow traitors.
The current Chinese system clearly works vastly better than Western ‘capitalist democracy’. In China if you wish to serve your country, you join the party of power, and rise according to your merits. Functionaries are tested at increasingly responsible levels, and the wheat sorted from the chaff.
There is no phony ‘adversarialism’, where winning is everything, and opposition is bitter, fanatic and unprincipled, and where policy is not arrived at through rational thought and discussion, but by judging what the rich owners of society, who own the political process and are de facto absolute rulers of society, wish to occur. In the USA this open corruption by money power has delivered the entire Congress to the Israel Lobby and the Jewish Fifth Column, and one cadaver, Sheldon Adelson, more or less controls the Republican Party in alliance with other plutocrats. Moreover this open reality, visible every day, is always furiously denied and any child foolish enough to attest to the Emperor’s nakedness is abused, vilified and silenced as an ‘antisemite'(TM). A similar situation pertains in most of the West, an unprecedented occurrence in history, I would say. The West is irredeemably corrupt and self-destructive, and the Chinese are not. All the West has left is abuse and lies, their perennial discourse, and threats of military aggression, as ever.
The Silk-Road starts working.
At the moment on rails.
http://www.elperiodico.com/es/graficos/sociedad/tren-mas-largo-china-espana-7438/
Over 13000km from Yiwu to Madrid , planned duration in the future , 18 days for the trip.
http://www.antena3.com/noticias/economia/llega-china-segundo-tren-mercante-madridyiwu-objetivo-ser-mensual_2015062100013.html
And back from Madrid to Yiwu with olive oil , wine and more good things for the body.
Planned frecuency in the future is one train per month.
30 containers each trip , 1800 tons.
faster than with ship but about 20-30% more expensive
Anonymous(!)
That phenomenon is known as ‘impostoring.’
I came across the bizarre world of impostors online at least ten years ago. They are very much a feature of celebrity
sites, though they infest news sites too.
I believe some are employed by PR to artificially bump up popularity, and others to act as cover for famous – or infamous! – folk who worry about being traced and wish to express views that would otherwise cause controversy.
Being impostored directly by a troll (or trolls) is a back-handed compliment: it means they see you as some kind of threat to whatever their agenda is.
More commonly, is the use of bots which hoover up data and try to replicate how real people communicate online: the giveaway is that they cannot sustain any argument for any length of time.
Then there are simply mentally ill folk (often frustrated actors), isolated, who give themselves the illusion of a social life by playing numerous roles online through the borrowing of identities.: I’ve come across at least two cases and found it totally freaky. We are sailing close to the winds of psychosis with those types.
Yet another reason to be grateful to the moderators here: I have never noticed any impostors. If any have managed to get through, they haven’t lasted long.:)
Thank you for the info, Sir. Perhaps in this case it was a bot, ’cause it posted less than 24 hours after my last post with that name, with a link that seemed random. Since then, a few others seem to have used the name. Of course, they sounded nothing like me. Anyhow really appreciate the info… what a waste of bandwidth for very little propaganda/pr purpose, and a waste of precious energy! Some people and machines have way too much time on their hands. I don’t think they knew what to do with a guy complaining about the current intellectual state in a land of the midnight sun. I’d used the handle for a while. Cheers!
An area of true and meaningful cooperation would be the resumption of the missionary work of the Russian Orthodox Church in China. Orthodoxy is the closest thing to the profoundest spiritual tradition of China, Taoism. China and the Far East and the Pacific are virtual “canonical territory” of the Moscow Patriarchy.
A rapprochement is underway and must be encouraged. Otherwise is Hillsong and other Neo-Protestants and Penticostals (of American persuasion).
have been reading up on the challenges facing russia in the far east .specifily Vladivostok..(initially enquiring about potential construction oppotunities specificly metal Roof plumbing.. demand etc).. and several pages and sites seemed to indicate that there are ‘alot of barriers’ mainly social tween Slavic and Asians in the city be they koreans or (the much larger) chinese community. .. etc.. and did note that they were mainly dated over a decade ago (the latest i think 2003)… and taking into account the monumental changes in the world…technology ,communication revision of relationships, BRICS.. etc.. fresh alliegiences.. etc.. it is taken with a grain of salt.. however this particular article is massively exicitng on so many levels..that i want to move there and be amongst it :)