Two short/long analyses in one:
Was the fall of Mosul good for the Shia militias?
and
Are the Sunnis/Wahabi tougher than the Shia?
Till early 2014, the Americans were putting pressure on Maliki to reign in Shia militias. The argument was that they could destabilize his government, they were proxies of Iran, and were getting combat experience in Syria. The Iraqi government formed brigades like the Wolf (Being led by Abu Al Walid, the commander fighting in Tal Afar), Tiger and Scorpion to counter the threat these militias could pose and primarily as a tool to keep Sunnis in check. Other measures included closing the Iraqi border with Syria and suspending direct flights. Both these measures at the time seemed to target Sunni Jihadist but were in fact meant to restrict the flow of Shia fighters. Maliki was also half hearted in his attempts. And the latter was a token gesture on the part of the Iraqi government as flights between Iran and Damascus were ongoing. The American threat to create a no fly zone over Syria was meant to stop these flights. The current surveillance flights over Iraq and the taking over of Iraq -Syria land border by Jihadist is also meant to stop this flow of Shia fighters.
The deployment of the Americans to Iraq after Mosul fell is mostly for monitoring the Shia, more than the Sunni. The Americans have checked Sunni revolutions in the past; they know how to turn the tap off. They have relations with Sunni elders and ex Ba’athist they can use to curb any Sunni insurgency. It’s the Shias they cannot control. It’s what you cannot control that frightens you.
The US was also interested in using moderate Shia clerics like Sistani to contain the allure of the Shia Jihadist groups. But this has now changed to some extent. Sistani’s call to arms has been the best recruiting drive the militias could have hoped for. He specified that it’s the army the youth should join. But the youth have a mind of their own. They know who kicks ass.
The Iraqi government is now relying on these militias to contain Daash. The Iraqi government will for the moment not restrict the training of fighters in Iran or their free flow between Syria and Iraq and will oppose any US pressure to stop the same. This can be seen in Maliki praising Syrian airstrikes on Iraq that normally any Prime Minister should oppose. Unlike the Sunni fighters of Daash (Chechens, Afghans, Saudis, Moroccans, Europeans etc) the Shia fighters are mostly Arab, from Iraq and the Levant that Daash so covets. The Sunni Arabs and tribes are on the side of Daash on account of a sense of being left out, part propaganda, part genuine frustration. But this is a problem they have to learn to live with. The power they once wielded is now gone. It is never coming back. The more they fight, the more Baghdad will become a Shia city and the more their frustration will grow. Some will eventually realize this but some will get radicalized by Saudi propaganda.
In the meanwhile, the militias will become the new Fremen against the Empire’s (Anglo Zionist) Sadukar (Daash) waiting for their Muad’Dib (Mahdi). It is the harsh environment of Iraq and the threat posed against them that will keep them on their toes, at the ready and well trained, growing stronger day by day, learning valuable combat lessons and outclassing Daash in skill, professionalism and morale.
Are the Shia militias tougher than the Sunnis (Wahhabi)?
There is an old colonial joke. The British wanted to raise a Muslim company. They asked the Muslims, who are your fiercest people? The Muslims partly misunderstanding what the Tommy’s were asking for said that our butchers (Kassabs) are the fiercest. So a company of butchers was hired. When the fighting started the butchers were not advancing beyond the trenches. The Tommy commander asked them, why don’t you advance? Go fight!
The Butchers replied: “buddy tie them up and bring them, we’ll do the slaughtering!”
This is what the fighters of Daash are: Butchers that the lambs flee.
I was watching some Jihadi videos last night. Not something very pleasant, but necessary.
First, professionalism:
Every single Shia militia fighting in Syria is organized militarily. They have brigades. These brigades have battalions of rocket troops, mortar firing, and assault. Each militia has proper uniforms and insignia. There is the ability to work within a command structure, under the Syrian army at times. Weapons being used are almost identical. AKMs, AMDs, PMKs, SVDs, hand held mortar launchers and RPGs. This is almost identical.
Sunni/Wahabbi militants are fierce but operate without any noticeable military organization, no uniform, no standard military equipment. The FSA in Syria is more professional with its army background. But Jihadists lack professionalism. This is also evident from Daash’s insistence to control its own allies, infighting over minor issues, its inability to curb its fighters from carrying out atrocities (but this is also a tactic employed), and its inability to fight in a sustained manner in any confrontation.
Propaganda:
This may not seem obvious to all. But Shia fighters are drawn to the fight out of love of something that they hold dear, i.e., the AhlulBayt. The Wahabbis on the other hand, from almost every single message, are driven by hatred, of Western values, saints, Shias, Christianity, Jews, everything they assume is corruption.
Jihadist propaganda is based on a puritan message. It requires Sunnis to give up belief systems that have held on for generations (however many Sunnis seem to be dropping earlier concepts of Walis and Wasilah faster than a stripper her “modest” clothing). The Shias on the other hand are being asked to act on something they have always believed in.
Age group:
Most Jihadists are young men. Most die young as well. But a quick research on the internet will show you that the starting age of a Daash fighter is upward of 10. For the Shia, except in the case of Khomeini’s human waves, it is much higher than 18. On an average it is 22.
Funding:
Here is where the Shias have been unlucky from the nascent stages of Islam. The Sunnis kept wealth to themselves and marginalized Shias throughout. Iraq may eventually change this balance. The oil wealthy of Shia Iraq and Iran may soon dwarf Saudi Arabia. But for now, the Sunnis have it good. The sanctions on Iran keep it poor.
Propaganda:
It is strange that the videos of Daash are almost always horrendous. And that the same videos that are used by Daash or Al Qaida for recruitment are used by their detractors (rational human beings) as counter propaganda. Shia militia videos are never of atrocities. They are almost always centered on the cult of martyrdom. The Americans try to highlight the alleged atrocities of Shia militias as counter propaganda but fail as most Shia distrust authority.
Two recent examples of combat effectiveness:
One was Hezballah’s takeover of Beirut in May 2008. Hariri’s thugs were no match. But I agree Beirut is not Tripoli. Mosul could be a counter example. But Beirut is more of a mixed city and Mosul more of a Sunni Ba’athist city. Moreover Beirut was military style takeover, while Mosul was a planned betrayal and collusion.
The other was Qusayr in 2013. Entrenched Jihadis with the full backing of the Arab states, Turkey and the West broke ranks and fled. The price Hizballah paid was high and Syria did pulverize most of Qusayr, but the fact remains that the Jihadist literally fled for their lives. Compare this to Bint Jabil in 2006 and it becomes clearer. The same odds, or higher if you consider the arsenal at Israel’s disposal, stacked against Hizballah and Hizballah humiliates Israel. When Israel leaves a path for escape, more fighters join the fight. Also the assessment Hezbollah gave of their performance. They were critical of two of their commanders being present at the same place at the same time. Qusayr has frightened the Anglo Zionist Empire. Mosul’s fall is going to petrify them.
The “Sunni” army was trained in Jordan.
Divide and rule is all part of Western imperialism. They have been doing this for hundreds of years. You think people would finally learn that.
If you look at the early history of the occupation you would note that at first there was no Shia/Sunni divide. The Sunnis where attacking the Americans only, which pissed off the Americans. So with false flags and the Salvador (“Shia”) Option carried out by an installed puppet government, that all changed. At first the Shia imams and leaders knew what was happening and openly stated that the attacks where false flags but given time it would become a reality. Stupid people imitate a false reality and make it real.
I mean the USA divided the Iraqi Authority based on religion and ethnicity. And the election was also done in the same way. This was all intentional. So it is designed to divide people into different groups.
Maliki is a traitors puppet that help foster this climate. All he cares about is remaining in power. All the puppet stooges in government helped foster this climate with the blessing and guidance of the USA.
What is happening now is exactly what the America/Israel want. There can’t be peace in an occupied nation.
The US and EU companies should be kicked out. The so called NGOs should be kicked out. The Embassies should all be closed, as the South America adage states that America has no revolutions due to the fact it does not have an American embassy. National assets should be privatised. But all this is wishful thinking.
The only leader that America would allow in power in Iraq is a corrupt leader that can never unite the nation.
Dear Mindfriedo,
I thought this was an interesting article:
http://disquietreservations.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/only-sunnis-can-defeat-isilisis-not.html
I put this on your last update and wanted your view.
Thanks.
Veritas
It seems strange that the author portrays DAASH, who’s army just swept across Iraq. as unorganized and then praises the other rebels in Syria, who are being overrun and incorporated by DAASH. The NSA was so well organized that corruption caused its whole command structure to be dismissed. Shia militias did a fair job of ambushing US Occupiers and running Death Squads but they have never faced a foe like DAASH.
@AntiNWO and Veritas
I had seen the page you had linked.
I don’t believe the Sunnis are going to help in this confrontation. They will however loose a lot. By talking about empowering Sunnis, the West aims to deprive the Shia population the right to rule. The Sunnis want the same privileges they enjoyed before. This is not going to happen. They have to live with it.
Shia leadership has been and even today is very pro unity between Shias and Sunnis. Khamenei’s statement today says the same. Shia clergy such as Sistani have always called for restraint, both in private and in public. I remember when the first blast took place in Kadhimiya in North Baghdad 2003. The Shias did not attack the Sunnis, they threw slippers on the Americans.
However, Sunnis in this confrontation have taken the help of Takfiri’s like Daash. They are being aided and encouraged by Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Jordan, UAE, and the West. They are now the other side. The balance will have to be restored.
mindfriedo
@wayoutwest
“Shia militias did a fair job of ambushing US Occupiers and running Death Squads but they have never faced a foe like DAASH”
The purpose of the militias at first to resist the occupation. Hence the expertise in laying IEDs, ambushes etc. The death squads were a result of incessant bomb and terror attacks on the Shia.
But after the Syrian conflict the militias have evolved. They are being trained in urban warfare. The next stage will be assault on cities like Tikrit, Mosul, Fallujah.
Daash fled from Tikrit today just as fast as it came in. They will flee when the going gets tough. Please wait and watch. The fall of these cities in Sunni Iraq was on account of a coordinated push by the Sunnis. Daash is their “misguided” spear tip.
There were multiple ways in which the Americans tricked the Iraqi Shias. They are attempting to trick them again by insisting in involving Sunnis. They want it to be fragmented. Earlier they did not supply air power. The terrain between most Iraqi cities is flat. Easy to drive and easy to hit from the air. Air power would have stopped the rebel advance. All the debaathification nonsense was also another reason for this collapse. The same people serving Saddam were in the army.
If Iraq has to survive, I am arguing the exact opposite of what Kerry is saying. NO COMPROMISE ON SECURITY. A single powerful army, Shia officers, for a single Iraq. Sunni police forces for Sunni cities. Cooperation on the administrative level, but none where it comes to security.
If Saddam could hold Iraq with 15% of Arab Sunni population, why cant the Shias with 65%. America is the problem, not the solution.
mindfriedo
@mindfriedo
I don’t believe the Sunnis are going to help in this confrontation. They will however loose a lot. By talking about empowering Sunnis, the West aims to deprive the Shia population the right to rule. The Sunnis want the same privileges they enjoyed before. This is not going to happen. They have to live with it.
Shia leadership has been and even today is very pro unity between Shias and Sunnis. Khamenei’s statement today says the same. Shia clergy such as Sistani have always called for restraint, both in private and in public. I remember when the first blast took place in Kadhimiya in North Baghdad 2003. The Shias did not attack the Sunnis, they threw slippers on the Americans.
Completely re-write of history there. What privileges? Sunnis and Shia intermarried under Saddam’s rule. Saddam had Shia and Sunni in high position. He was a secularist through and through. He assaulted any group that went against him, whether Sunni Kurds or Shia Arabs, didn’t give a damn just as long as they knew who was in charge.
http://countrystudies.us/iraq/38.htm
I mean Saddam was declared an apostate by Saudi so they can go and bomb the sh*t out of him. Same with Qaddafi.
Maliki is a complete puppet, so how can he be pro-unity. A puppet is not pro-unity. No sell-out is pro-unity. Do not confuse the puppet and the Shia people. And your first line is what makes Maliki a complete failure. It is one thing to alienate the Sunni outside the country it is an all together different issue when it is Sunni within the country. And that’s where the problem lies. Maliki is a tool. Not because he is Shia, but because he is an American tool installed with the consent of America.
As to ISIL, they are savages and another instrument of Western divide and rule.
West aims to deprive the Shia population the right to rule.
This statement is telling and that is why Iraq is dead. I believe the Shia leadership thinks the same way as a you do. Ruling based on tribalism in an area that really you area (ME) not dominate in, will only lead to failure. Iraq will be carved or be drowned in blood.
After years of PUPPET rule (doesn’t matter the faith) they can’t get electricity or running water. Puppets are puppets, whether Shia, Sunni or Christian does not matter. If they sell themselves to the AngloZionist empire it means they have no integrity and that their main goal is to be a parasite on the host nation. Maliki government is a parasite. ISIL is a chaos.
The purpose of the militias at first to resist the occupation. Hence the expertise in laying IEDs, ambushes etc. The death squads were a result of incessant bomb and terror attacks on the Shia.
Death squads where a complete failure by bunch of sick animals designed to divide the nation more. Iraq government are are American puppets. Maliki came from outside the country to rule it. What do you expect from a man whose been away from decades.
Divide and Rule
Under the U.S. occupation every ID card, checkpoint and neighborhood was divided by sect. Funds, resources, food and government positions were allocated by sect. Meanwhile, intelligence networks and thousands of secret operatives carried out horrendous crimes aimed at keeping sectarian fires burning.
….continued
False Flags
The incessant bombs many where false flag operations for anyone with half a brain could tell. I mean attacking the Shia holly site Golden Domed Mosque that was used by Sunni populace and in a Sunni area, makes a lot of sense. NOT!! Killing of academics that are the ones that build society. .
The MI6 agents dressed as arabs with bombs.
http://www.uruknet.de/?p=21034
“I swear to you that we have very good information,” Fisk recounts, “One young Iraqi man told us that he was trained by the Americans as a policeman in Baghdad and he spent 70 per cent of his time learning to drive and 30 per cent in weapons training. They said to him: ‘Come back in a week.’ When he went back, they gave him a mobile phone and told him to drive into a crowded area near a mosque and phone them. He waited in the car but couldn’t get the right mobile signal. So he got out of the car to where he received a better signal. Then his car blew up.”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17044.htm
http://www.israelshamir.net/Contributors/Contributor42.htm
My memory is not as good as it use to be. But if you search you can find lots of articles. It’s not as easy now to find them because they are dated.
West has won Iraq. Maliki or whomever Shia government you want to rule, does not matter. Sunni same thing if they are American puppets. ISIL is an American creation. The masses of people, both Shia and Sunni will live in abject poverty.
Yeah for the Shia, they are winners of a kingdom of death. Not sure I would call them winners or rulers. It is only a few dozen Shia the govern the rest are not much better off than the Sunni.
Only the Kurds are doing well. Both Shia and Sunni are going there. Though they are self-serving Zionist traitors, the area they govern at least is more or less stable.
@AntiNWO
What is happening now is exactly what the America/Israel want.
West has won Iraq.
Only Sunnis Can Defeat ISIL/ISIS, Not Shiites or Americans
Yes, maybe (for now) and no.
Yes — Anglo-Zionists want Sunnis fighting Shia.
Maybe — The proverbial ‘West’ is getting what it wants but only in the short term. Shia civilization, like Russian civilization, is mobilizing and has the spiritual capacity to confront the threat. Sunni civilization, mostly on account of their utterly corrupted leadership who demand unqualified obedience, will be unable to adjust. This is bred in the bone and can’t be undone by a Sunni Nasrallah (which is an impossibility).
No — While Shia civilization is mobilizing with considerable difficulty — Sunni civilization is unable to confront core ideological Supremacism. Those Sunnis who turn against the Wahabbi Zionists will have only one choice:
i.e. join with the more tolerant, diverse and pragmatic Shia. That process is already underway in Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere.
Look to recent history in Syria and Lebanon to see how this develops. Moderate Sunnis will abandon their reactionary religious leadership and line up behind people like Nasrallah and Assad. As I said, this process is underway and the Sunni Zionists have no way to confront it.
Maliki is a Talmudic Shia (no kidding) but he is irrelevant to the long term trend. East of Palestine the Shia are in a considerable majority and they sit on all of the oil. If — when Israel is overun and defeated — it will be an army of Muslims (and Christians) led by a Shia who will defeat them.
There is no other realistic possibility, IMHO.
Responding to Mindfriedo, I think you mistake this conflict for a local, limited action while I think it is much larger program. The Sunni intelligencia behind this movement has stated publicly since the fall of Saddam that they could and would defeat the Shia, after the US left, and return to power. DAASH has expanded that vision to creating the Caliphate that includes all of the ME with Iraq and Syria as just the base for future conquests including the primary goal of liberating Palestine. The Sunni rebels will join DAASH and the Shia militias may be allowed to protect their Holy Sites but if they try to do more they will be destroyed. The propaganda spoon fed to the West about the actions in Iraq are to be ignored until actual proof is provided. The Iraqi Army is good at shooting and bombing civilians and announcing body counts but little else. The next weeks and months will be enlightening and embarrassing for the West as the Caliph and his followers prepare for their march to Jerusalem.
@AntiNWO
A little clarification: I’m not pro Maliki. Right now I don’t think many Iraqis are.
That being said asking him to resign now, or demanding it now that hes won the election is regime change. You can compare him to the last Ukranian President in terms of corruption, but unless the Shia who voted him to power want him out, getting rid of him or supplanting him is regime change.
Completely re-write of history there. What privileges? Sunnis and Shia intermarried under Saddam’s rule. Saddam had Shia and Sunni in high position. He was a secularist through and through. He assaulted any group that went against him, whether Sunni Kurds or Shia Arabs, didn’t give a damn just as long as they knew who was in charge.
“Sunnis and Shia intermarried under Saddam’s rule”
The office of Ayatullah Fazel Lankarani:
The marriage of a Muslim woman with a Non-Muslim man is batil (void), the marriage of a Shia woman with a Sunni man is makruh, the marriage of a Muslim man with a Non-Muslim woman is also void unless the marriage is a temporary one (mut’ah), and the marriage of a Shia man with a Sunni woman is okay.
The office of Ayatullah Bahjat:
Temporary marriage with the People of the Book (Ahlul-Kitab) is correct and as an obligatory precaution it isn’t permissible to perform the marriage contract of a Shia girl or woman and Sunni man.
The office of Ayatullah Sistani:
Getting married to the People of the Book isn’t permissible as an obligatory precaution. On the other hand, it is okay to get married with Sunnis if there isn’t any fear of going astray and losing Shia beliefs as a result.
The office of Ayatullah Makarem Shirazi:
It isn’t permissible for a Muslim to get married to a Non-Muslim, while it is okay for Shia men to get married to Sunni women, but taken into consideration that there are chances of going astray for Shia women getting married to Sunni men, such a marriage isn’t permissible.
The militias who are fighting right now, are religious. Not secular Ba’athist. The secular ones who intermarried were few. Not the norm.
“Saddam had Shia and Sunni in high position”
For every “Shia” in a high position, I will point you an equal “Christian” (Even though Christians were less than the Shia population) and 20 “Sunnis” in a higher position.
“He was a secularist through and through. He assaulted any group that went against him, whether Sunni Kurds or Shia Arabs”
He was the champion of the Sunni arab monarchies against a Shia Iran. Doesn’t get any more Sunni than that. The group that bore the brunt of his power, were the Shias. Please read up on that too.
There is a fatwa by Sadr, and I think Khomaini, that forbade joining the Bath party.
mindfriedo
@AntiNWO
“This statement is telling and that is why Iraq is dead. I believe the Shia leadership thinks the same way as a you do. Ruling based on tribalism in an area that really you area (ME) not dominate in, will only lead to failure. Iraq will be carved or be drowned in blood.”
I’m not asking for tribalism. Just noble and self righteous democracy. Maliki may be a tool, a puppet, corrupt, but he was voted to power.
Death squads where a complete failure by bunch of sick animals designed to divide the nation more.
Yes. The Shia death squads were wrong. But they started after years of being bombed. The Shia clergy has always condemned these death squads. Sistani has forbade them.
But I don’t see people sitting and taking it for so long without some sort of retaliation. Its natural and inevitable.
Under the U.S. occupation every ID card, checkpoint and neighborhood was divided by sect. Funds, resources, food and government positions were allocated by sect. Meanwhile, intelligence networks and thousands of secret operatives carried out horrendous crimes aimed at keeping sectarian fires burning
It was the same under Saddam. When Iraq was “liberated” by Bush, which was poorest neighbourhood of Baghdad, which the richest? Please don’t point out a token Shia in the west of Baghdad as an exception. The country was always divided on sectarian lines. Even before Saddam.
“The incessant bombs many where false flag operations for anyone with half a brain could tell. I mean attacking the Shia holly site Golden Domed Mosque that was used by Sunni populace and in a Sunni area, makes a lot of sense. NOT!! Killing of academics that are the ones that build society. .
The MI6 agents dressed as arabs with bombs.
http://www.uruknet.de/?p=21034
“I swear to you that we have very good information,” Fisk recounts, “One young Iraqi man told us that he was trained by the Americans as a policeman in Baghdad and he spent 70 per cent of his time learning to drive and 30 per cent in weapons training. They said to him: ‘Come back in a week.’ When he went back, they gave him a mobile phone and told him to drive into a crowded area near a mosque and phone them. He waited in the car but couldn’t get the right mobile signal. So he got out of the car to where he received a better signal. Then his car blew up.””
Read all this, understand all this. The mosque in Samarra was a Sunni mosque, a Shia shrine but a Sunni mosque. I’m sure and the Shia are sure that locals did not carry it out.
mindfriedo
@ AntiNWO and Wayoutwest
Responding to Mindfriedo, I think you mistake this conflict for a local, limited action while I think it is much larger program.
I think the both of you are limiting this conflict till Saddam’s era. The Sunni persecution of Shias in Iraq is not from after Saddam came to power. You can watch the history of the shrine in Karbala to realize how many times it has been destroyed. Even by the house of Saud.
I’m not limiting my argument locally. But the only resistance to the anglo Zionist empire is going to come from the Shia, Not the Sunni.
The mosque in Samarra was a Sunni mosque, a Shia shrine but a Sunni mosque. I’m sure and the Shia are sure that locals did not carry it out.
I read it and understood it. I was saying it was a holy site to the Shia and not to the Sunni. It was used by Sunni yet the “Sunni” attacked it allegedly.
Whatever Ayatullah whomever told who can what can marry, fact of the matter they intermarried. My understanding their religion was lax before the first gulf war.
I would have thought Kurds were the most oppressed groups even though majority of them are Sunni.
House of Saud destroyed all shrines, whether Shia or Sunni/Sufi. They hate shrines.
Look at Syria. Syria is ruled by Alawite yet the majority of its army is Sunni. The majority of the people that are fighting the Sunni insurgents are Sunni. The top maybe Alawite but the meat of the army is Sunni.
If you disfranchise the Sunni with statements Shia will solve it then you’ve alienated part of the populace.
Also you can’t compare Hezbollah to Iraq or even Iran. Hezbollah is on a different scale in honour. They are the most trustworthy people in the whole of the ME. The Iranian government though helps fund them, can’t compete with them in respectability. As to Iraq leadership is a joke. Also I am not 100% certain but I would guess that Hezbollah has the support of the majority of the Sunni populace, but then again they don’t have death squads and aren’t a puppet.
Hezbollah has proven their worth and trust. Iraq leadership have proven they are incapable of uniting the people and are corrupt as hell. So far there are no Iraqi Nasrallah. Also Hezbollah is more than about protection, but also building the society.
Also one has to state the Hezbollah is not the government. That is an important point. Shiaism is the government in Iraq not in Lebanon.
“Those Sunnis who turn against the Wahabbi Zionists will have only one choice”
Most “Wahabi” or Salafi are apolitical. The Salafi movement can be compared to the Protestant movement in that it has no fixed school of thought, but it is a way of thinking and open to interruption. The other main five, Shia and the Four Sunni Schools, are more fixed. Most Salafi Scholars are against suicide. Most salafi scholars where against the first Gulf War and the second. They don’t get coverage because they don’t matter and are not what the leadership wants.
The Muslim Brotherhood is a different matter.
ISIS can only grow in a disfranchised and broken society. The more torn worn Syria and Iraq become the more violent groups will emerge, as chaos tends to breed more chaos. It takes a strong and good leadership that can unite the people to fix this type of situation. Syria has this, Iraq does not have it. “Shiaism” is not a unifier.
Thank you for the reports.
A very crudely written article with many spelling mistakes. Also very superficial evidence that doesn’t make any sense.
The conclusion has some logic in it, still. And again Putin is helping the Shias. To put it mildly, they are very much like Russian people in that they fight for ideology and culture more than money.
Syrian Sunnis are different from other Sunnis in the region in that they also fight for an ideal of a secular Syria and for the republic. When it comes to action they are just as ferocious fighters as Hezbollah Shias.
And btw. Hezbollah has 10% Orthodox Christians in them I heard.
@AntiNWO
“My understanding their religion was lax before the first gulf war.”
The Shia religion is tolerant, but not lax. The laws remain the same, but people are not pressed. People have been going to Karbala and Najaf to die in their old age. Some Shias maintain blood lines that go back till Mohammad. If you see exceptions as the norm, then yes they intermarried.
“I would have thought Kurds were …”
When the gulf war ended, and Robert Fisk has spoken of this, the American’s asked the Shia to rise up. Then they betrayed them and let Saddam kill the Shia. He asked them can I fly my Mi24 Hinds (Soviet Supplied) in the South, they said sure. Saddam changed the course of a river to dry out the marshes and kill the marsh Arabs (almost entirely Shia). John Simpson has a video in 1992 where he was in the Hazarate Abbas (as) shrine where he films the blood of the Shias killed. Saddam shelled the shrines. I have read Shia accounts where not a boy above 14 was alive in Karbala then. The Highest Marja of the Shia, Khoie was made to appear on TV with Saddam. He was made to walk over the bodies of dead Shia. Before this you can read of Saddam’s atrocities against the family of Sadr. But this goes a long way back. All the way till bani Ummayah and before the Sunnis were their four schools plus Salafism. I’ll try and write an article on it, with references, if Saker allows it, I’ll post it. But it will take time. In sum, you thought wrong. As the American’s say, and after the Whirlwind war of Iraq on Iran, his invasion of Kuwait, and all his other adventures Saddam would agree: assumption is the mother of all F$#@ ups.
“Look at Syria…”
Read Sleeping with the Devil by Robert Baer, see chapter 7, the honeymoon. It explains a lot of the foundation Hafiz Al Assad (Don Corleone) built on which his son, Bashar (Michael Corleone) is standing. Please don’t dismiss what he says off hand; I have Syrian friends (Sunni refuges) who corroborate it all and some more. The Syrian Baath party had a liberal education, the Sunnis there are much more open minded there, than Iraq.
“Also you can’t compare Hezbolla…”
There is a learning curve through which most movements, regimes, militant groups evolve. If you see the history of Hezbollah, most of its earlier fighters came from Amal (Afwaj al Muqawama Al Lebnaniya). The same Amal that fought the Palestinians and starved the PLO in the war of the camps. It was only later that the Hezbollah stepped in and stopped sectarian warfare. Hezbollah first fought Shia Amal for supremacy, forget Sunnis, they fought other Shias. When the power of Hezbollah is threatened in Lebanon, they will not hesitate even today.
These Iraqi militias are being trained by Hezbollah. They are going through the same learning curve Hezbollah went through. Once they reach that level, you can honour them. Till then you can forget Hezbollah’s history and call them effective death squads.
cont…
Mindfriedo
@AntiNWO
“Also you can’t compare…”
Please watch some of the earlier videos of the Lebanese civil war. You will see Iran’s flag before that of Hezbollah came into existence. The Iranians are very honourable. During the First Gulf War aka the Iran Iraq war, the American’s blamed Saddam’s gas attacks on the Iranians. Rafsanjani (the shark) at Friday prayers, with tears in his eyes said that we know what these weapons do. We will never use them on an animal let alone a human being. You know what the Secular Sunni non Salafi Saddam said “Insects were attacking us so we used pesticide.”
“Most “Wahabi” or Salafi are apolitical.”
How many Salafis do you know personally? They are very political. They are very aware. They all call the Shia outright Kafir or borderline heretics. I know. Most of my employees are Salafi, my suppliers are Salafi, and I live next to a Salafi Mosque. My shop keeper is a Salafi, when the Hazaras were killed I asked him is the Taliban right, his reply was but they only killed Shias. When it comes to a religious question, the Shias are considered outcasts, not part of the fold. And most of these apolitical Salafis will stand aside when the shrine of an Imam is bombed or attacked, or the grave of a prophet is turned to dust. None of their scholars will condemn Saudi Arabia.
“Most Salafi Scholars are against suicide.”
Ask these Salafi scholars about Osama Bin Laden. Ask this question in Pakistan. I don’t live there, but they cried on the streets when he was killed. Ask them about Yazid, the killer of Hussain (as), they will tell you the Shias killed Hussain (as). And I’ll quote you here “Completely re-write of history there.” Ask them about Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan, the second fitna, and they will tell you his fight against Ali was justified. Ask them about Palestinian Suicide bombings against Israelis, they might disagree with you there.
“ISIS can only grow in a disfranch…”Shiaism” is not a unifier.”
I…disagree. The Shias are the only force there that can tame Daash, and they will. The threat of Daash will always remain. Iraq is in many ways living in a post apocalyptic world. You can never expect Iraq to go back to a “normal” time where Shias and Sunnis intermarried in the thousands. But Daash has given them this opportunity to break free of the Americans. It has given them the chance to introspect and possibly discard rulers like Maliki. And it is this outside threat that will strengthen them.
Thank you
mindfriedo
Thank you for your responses, Mindfriedo. Whatever the final outcome of this crisis I think we can agree that this is a unique and historical drama being played out, unlike anything we have seen before. The status quo in the ME is crumbling and the Caliphate is rising but the future is very unclear.
If the West intervenes the whole area will explode in rage with both factions of Islam joining together to repel the Occupiers. That possibility may be included in the long term plans of DAASH and it could be used to further their goals.