Dear friends,
I want to draw your attention to a very interesting interview of Paul Craig Robers with Ellen Brown. You can listen to it right here:
By the way, I would like to get in touch with Paul Craig Roberts. If you have his email, please send it to me.
Enjoy this most interesting interview, kind regards,
The Saker
UPDATE: got his email, thanks, and I emailed him today. thanks to all!
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/contact/
Dear Saker,
PCR mentioned you and your articles in several of his posts. In fact, this is how I became aware of your blog by reading his blog.
Vic, NI
I have written out the text of the last 23 minutes of the interview, in english. (With a few explaining remarks in dutch) . PCR explains the problems of the 1980 crisis, and how his Supply side economics solved the problems.
He shows the difference between ‘those days’ and the later ‘days of deregulation’ and take over by Wall Street.
He speaks about the Neocons under Reagan and how papa Bush did not give them any room.
He speaks about the 1992 olfowitz Doctrine, the direct result of the end of the Soviet Union.
He exlains how this also led to off-shoring American jobs and how this leads to a powerless 99%.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/contact/
Sorry, this is unrelated to this topic. But some developments on the MH17 front.
Today, German media started to run a story about MH17. A channel got an interview with Vladimir Babak, the designer of SU-25. In it he says that it is very very difficult for SU-25 to do this. For him it is out of question. Also, difficult to beak up a plane that big with R60. He suggests BUK could do it. However, he points at the Ukranians. German media is connecting this story with the Belling cat claims that it was a BUK and it came from Russia. The presentation is as if some big revelation has come from the Russian side supporting their narrative. Now, the question is would SU-25 be capable of doing such a thing. I guess only way to do it is to do a test flight and demonstrate it is doable.
Fifty years later and the US media still insists that Oswald did it.
The coincidences are piling up, as per usual. Allan Dulles, who is one of the more likely suspects in the JFK assassination, also just happens to be the guy who brought the Ukrainian fascists to America. Among other fascists. Pardon me. Anti-communists!
And, cue Lily Tomlin, no matter how cynical you get, it is never enough … I just recently read that the German officer who set up the battallion “Nachtigall”, Theodor Oberländer, was a cabinet minister in Adenauer’s government after the war, and when he was exposed as a war criminal, he still remained in parliament for years. No prosecution except in the GDR. The party of nice Ms. Merkel just happens to be full of surprises …
I’m encountering a lot of references to the Dulles boys lately. Those two are responsible for a huge amount of the pain the world is experiencing now. If you get a chance, I recommend you read the recent book about them, “The Brothers,” by Stephen Kinzer.
The worst thing the Dulles Bros. did was write the Versailles Treaty. Pretty ironic for a couple of Nazi enablers. Oh, not ironic; perfectly logical.
Hi, interesting thing you say. You’d have material on this Dulles writing the treaty? Merci!
There is a fascinating (and very long – over 3 hours) video on youtube called “JFK to 911 Everything is a Rich Man’s Trick” that mentions how the dynamic Dulles duo concocted the Treaty and wrote it up. Not too surprising considering they were instrumental in creating the CIA – to stir up post-war trouble around the globe.
If you’re looking for white knights you’re going to have difficulties. There’s the JFK reluctance to allow Israel nukes, all kids of hatred there. Even prior to that it is well known that the US State Dept, and many other agencies, were penetrated by Sov spies. Who were they, what were their motivations, to whom did they owe allegiance after Isreal was formed, where are they now?
Germay is an important sideshow. I dont know what ‘they’ have on Merkle, it’s more to the point to figure out who ‘they’ are. It’s not Russia that’s leaning on the good Frau to act like an idiot before her country and the globe.
There’s much evidence that’s been destroyed, only threads remain. There are also archives that need to be explored, Sov and GDR (I bet that China haas some good stuff also), to get understanding. At this time it seems to be a race for the truth – at least a credable explanation of past events and motivations.
I’m not optomistic, this banker sit has been escalating for a few centuries. Bread and Circus will suffice,even when it comes time to sacrifice one’s own.
But hey, I’m an optomist: nobody leaves here alive.
@T1
I wonder if there is something that “they” (whoever) has on Merkle.If there isn’t anything,then someone I thought of as intelligent is really stupid instead.The possibilities are endless of course.But the ones I’ve heard mostly are: (A) She was a informer for the Stasi in the GDR days.But if that was true.The Russians would surely know that as well.So if one side could blackmail her,so could the other.Making that secret useless. (B) She committed,or her family committed,some crime that was discovered.Probably a financial white collar crime of some kind.I don’t really see her as a mugger,or stick-up artist. (C) The one I find a possibility closer than the others.Some sort of a sexual secret.A closet Lesbian perhaps.Even though Germany is a Western gay friendly country.Her being the head of the major conservative party,and being a closeted Lesbian would be a problem for her with her party and voters I think.There is one more too (D) She is and always was a Russophobe.And it is coming to the surface now.That one might explain her actions if she wasn’t being blackmailed.So while we may never know.It is strange that she would sell out Germany’s interests so fully if there wasn’t something driving her.
Merkel was big in the communist party in the GDR, she even was a propaganda minister. She is not russophobe but an old communist with rich past there, so that’s where they probably have lots on her.
I think it’s all more or less official. In exchange for US consent that it could gobble up the GDR, West Germany made three promises: To forego nukes, to remain structurally incapable of military aggression, and to remain “bound” to the West (“Westanbindung”) …
From my limited understanding of post ww2 Germany – it is still a miltarily occupied state. Important politacal decisions are the domain of the Allied, now NATO, forces. On top of it all persists that Germany fullfills the reqs of the global banking system that caused the two wars in the first place.
Merkle could not have been a contender for office w/o western approval. I entertain the thought the she has a conscience and that’s what ripping her up inside.
Coonsider this: Brussels, a nothing state, is in position to dictate the military and economic affairs of Europe. How could have this come about in a non Orwellian world?
So what do you really mean by saying that.. russia would not be ‘leaning ‘ to divert good nice Merket into a sensible, rational policy towards the future of her Germany-and whole europe- instead of the present course.
Please explain.
Because for me the present course of ms Merkel and friends is obvious: head on with fair speed to the iceberg.
Ever heard of blackmail?
Link please?
http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/mh17-ukraine-157.html
It is in German. A translation with google works quite well. It is also in some other German news sites.
I can find no specs that give the performances for loaded and empty weights. I suspect that the 7000m height that is argued about would be full fuel and full bomb load of 5 tons.
The sea level maximum speed for the SU25 is substantially faster than cruise speed of the B777 and would be increased at altitude.
Armed with a couple of R-60 misiles (<90 kg) and 250 rounds of 30mm (at a guess less than 500kg), it would be around 4.5 tons below its maximum loaded weight. this would make a huge difference if as I think they are, most flight specs are based on full load.
This is a small plane that can carry a very heavy bomb/missile load so there would be a large difference in performance from full fuel, full munition load to say half fuel and 5/600 kg weapons.
http://www.redstar.gr/Foto_red/Eng/Aircraft/Su_25M1.html
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
DESIGNER
OKB Sukhoi
COUNTRY
Russia
TYPE
Attack aircraft
CREW
1
POWER-PLANT
Two jet, R-195
Thrust, kN
2 x 44.13
DIMENSIONS
Length, m
15,36
Height, m
4,80
Wing span, m
14,36
Wing area, m2
33,70
WEIGHT
Empty aircraft, kg
9.500
Normal take-off, kg
14.600
Maximum take-off, kg
17.600
Internal fuel, kg
5.000
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed, km/h
Μ=0,82
Max speed in low height, km/h
975
Combat range, km
1.850
Service ceiling, m
5.000-10.000
Maximum overload, g
6.5
ARMAMENT
30-mm two-barrel cannon GSh-30-2 with 250 rounds.
Warload – 4.000 kg in 10 hardpoints, normal -1.340 kg
8-10 500-,250-kg bombs, 32x 100-kg bombs, napalm tanks
rokets 8-10 ML UB-32-57 (320(252) x 57-mm)
or 8-10 240-mm, packets UR S-5 (57-mm), S-8 (80-mm), S-24 (240-mm) x S-25 (340-mm).
Air-to-air missile, Air-to-surface missile Kh-25ML, Kh-29L and S-25L
SPPU-22 pods with 23-mm cannon GSh-23L with 260 rounds
I appreciate the link. I have noticed a few references to Ukr specs but had not seen them.
Discussion here of the hypothesis that the attacking plane was an SU-25 mostly ignores the (more likely?) hypothesis that it was a MiG-29, as mentioned on a thread on this blog last August.
Sounds like major a damage-limitation is underway..,
Remember this?
And here is an assessment of the non-surface-to-air-BUK (or ‘red herring’) theory, going with the pics and reports of two fighter jets -Ukrainian – seen on each side of MH-17 :Ray B. March 07, 2015Here is my analysis, from an ex-Boeing aero engineer standpoint:The Boeing 777 was initially at 33,000 feet. The aircraft, therefore, was above the Su-25’s ceiling, as listed at wikipedia. (Service ceiling: 7,000 m (22,965 ft) clean,5,000 m (16,000 ft) with max weapons)
I am aware of the Comments both that this is an artificial, CIA-changed figure and that Su-25 pilots have reached at least 30,000 feet with supplemental oxygen. For the purpose here, it does not matter. I am presuming the Su-25 was carrying only two R-60 air-to-air missiles, which are low drag. So, the service ceiling in this case would have been around 21-22,000 feet. (The upgrades to the Su-25 did not include engine or aerodynamic changes, so are unlikely to have increased the ceiling.)
The 777 was well within reach of the R-60s, though (66,000 ft, Mach 2.7). As a non-maneuvering, transport aircraft, it would have been laughably easy to hit. I would have salvoed both missiles, both for increased hit-chance and to avoid coming back with only one missile (very noticeable, as opposed to just empty pylons). The above would tie-in with ret. Col Zhilin’s testimony.
Most reports indicate the accompanying-fighter was closing from the rear, which is the most advantageous for infrared guidance. With infrared guidance, the missile would home-in directly on the hottest area – the engine exhaust. The warhead would probably detonate in theexhaust cone or adjacent to it. In the Boeing 777, the engine is slung well out in front of the wing. The expanding-rod warhead would rip up the engine but probably not take out the wing or flight control cabling. The ‘hit’ (or hits) might indeed be survivable. Today’s jet engines are built with FAA-mandated ‘containment shields’. They are meant to contain high-velocity fan/compressor/turbine blades if something causes them to shear off. They are basically armored ‘cans’ surrounding the rotating parts. A missile detonating inside this ‘can’ might have the expanding-rods contained, rather than punching through the nacelle and into the fuselage.
If detonating on the far side of the ‘can’ from the fuselage, much the same result… Also, Zhilin says, “…the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left.” This would be the direct result of losing thrust on the left engine. The pilots were probably more concerned with staying in the air (under control) than their heading… http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/startup/pdf/777_perf.pdf “Engine-out altitude capability (MTOW, ISA + 10°C) Basic: 16,200 ft Maximum Weight: 15,600 ft” After the 777’s engine was hit and disabled by the R-60, the 777 would have descended to around 15-16,000 feet. That is the standard one-engine-out ‘cruise’ altitude as above. It may have been lower with the damage. If I were the pilot, I would have been on a circling descent through and below that altitude, looking for a nearby airport or good field.
Since the R-60 has such a small warhead, the pilots may not even have known they were hit by a missile and assumed a simple engine-out problem.That could account for the lack of initial reporting.This descent would have put the 777 well within the Su-25’s (wikipedia) altitude capability. So, it would have been possible at that point to conduct a ‘strafing’ run with the 30mm cannon. With the 777 turning, that may have presented the opportunity for whatever angle shot the fighter pilot wanted. As various Commenters have noted, there seems to have been a concentration on the cockpit and avionics bay. (Grrr.)Unfortunately, with the ‘secrecy ageement’ in place, I see no way that any important evidence will be revealed, barring a Snowden-like mass-release by someone with a Conscience…
ReplyAm off to Asia Times with this
Where Is the couple of weeks of my talk to the Mencken Club last December. The topic was “The Left and Human Nature.”
The aircraft out performs the A10 thunderbolt which has a service ceiling of 45,000ft. Wing loading at full load not as good, power to weight better x 2. A10 ceiling 45000ft , SU25 ceiling 7000m? Bullshit.
Power to weight by density altitude.
I would tend to agree with Peter. Even the ancient 1950s era Grumman Tiger had a service ceiling of 49,000 feet (14,900 meters) The Su-25 is about 50 percent heavier than the ancient Tiger but has nearly twice the thrust, and has a larger wing area (323 sq/f as opposed to 250 sq/f).
Please if you want people to read it… insert some white space ie paragraphs.
Thanks Moderator :-) … excellent response…
however Eimar could have easily done this before posting, especially now with the ubeaut preview function and easy ‘paragraph insert’.
How can we tell who is credible and who is not?
One way is to see to what extent their words match reality as we can determine from other sources.
The above assessment quoted by Eimar is not credible because it is way wrong on known facts. It is not an issue of service ceiling. It is pure fantasy.
* The writer insists on a shot from the rear at the right engine. FACT: there is no ammunition damage to the right side of the plane at all.
* true the engines are built to contain damage BUT both engines are clearly visible on the ground and neither are chopped up inside as they would be if they’d ingested a missile’s worth of rods or shrapnel. The rings of fans are essentially intact on both.
* Also, Zhilin says, “…the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left.” — this is plain SLOPPY. 180 degrees is a total about-face. The real figure was right-angles, ie 90 degrees. How reliable is the other data of such a writer?
This is probably the most comprehensively photographed air crash of all time. Any analysis that is ignorant of the known VISIBLE facts, or more dangerously IGNORES them, should be discarded completely.
The best set — original ones 6 groups down, fresher ones on top line.
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/sets/
It wasn’t anyone’s BUK because there was no smoke trail which is theoretically visible for over 100 miles at 32,000′. Nobody saw or heard a launch and the BUK shrapnel has an ‘H’ shape to it and bigger than any of the damage holes. It could not make the round holes seen by the cockpit. Several units make up a BUK system and there is no evidence that there was the large control radar needed for a 32,000′ target acquisition. Nor is there evidence that the single BUK that seperatists had was even functional. Stand alone BUKs with a small radar only works on low targets.
The R-60, engine homing missiles would bring MH17 down to a lower altitude. SIngle engine ceiling for a B777 is 22,000′.
Belling Cat is rubbish and there is Youtube footage of an SU-25 showing an altimeter at 10,000 meters. I realise that can be faked but several pilots have stated that, with O2 for the pilot, that altitude is feasible.
I am worn out stating this but ballistic trajectories and simple physics and forensic analysis of chemical and metallic traces and shrapnel plus autopsies would have determined what brought MH17 down within days at most of MH17 crashing.
Sounds like there is a MAJOR damage-limitation drive underway..
The designer’s claims couldn’t be taken as gospel in absentia an actual test: the ex-Boeing engineer who posted to this forum gave a very good account of how it was possible to take-out a plane that size. He would be better-placed to make a logistics-assessment, since he knows the nature of the target intimately.
I cut-and-pasted it around several sites, including Asia Times.
Interesting, isnt it? No matter how trivial, any piece of info that threatens the official narrative is overwhelmed by a deluge of obfuscating noise.
Consider what you ‘know’ and why you know it. Remember that disinfo contains enough truth to be credible, just enough so that the lie can be injected.
Listen to that voice inside each of us that refrains us from doing evil.
Going back on earlier US ‘intelligence’ sources, there was a piece that came out after the BUK theory was soundly trashed. It said that they thought maybe it wasn’t a BUK after all, but a less sophisticated missile (the implication being that separatists could handle it, unlike the complex BUK M1) such as an SA-6.
There’s just one problem with that. The SA-6 can only reach 20,000′. MH17 was at 32,000′.
“The designer also considers it impossible that other warplanes shot down the machine. For air-to-air missiles would have had other effects that they had such a powerful machine like the Boeing only damaged, do not let break up in the air.”
This seems a very strange statement to me. I have seen all along the story that the plane broke up from sudden decompression — and stress in the fall.
As for SU-25, there have been various modifications available, and I’ve seen where pilots have said that they can operate the plane at what would have been required.
I’ll take this story with a grain of salt. It doesn’t smell right to me.
A test flight was carried out for the documentary Reflections on MH17. The plane easily exceeded 10,000 metres getting to 11800 if memory serves. The main limitation is pilot stamina as the plane is unpressurised.
32,000 is a pure oxygen feed in an unpressurized aircraft.
I believe the issue is if the SU25 could be at the altitude of an airliner. As I understand this is less relevant as the airliner was asked to reduce altitude by Kiev air traffic control. No tapes of this conversation as Kiev won’t release them. However, the Dutch will have the cockpit conversations. Again none of this has been released. What are they hiding?
There still is no answer to the famous Russian questions:
“On July 18 the Russian government formally asked Ukrainian authorities ten questions. Granville provided the list.
They included questions such as:
On what evidence are accusations about Russia’s involvement based on?
Why were Buk missile launchers deployed by the Ukrainian army in this conflict zone, since the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?
Why did Kiev’s air traffic controllers tell the MH17 to fly fourteen kilometers off the normal route, directly over the war zone?”
/johanna-granvilles-presentation-maidan-and-beyond-the-media-blackout-in-ukraine/
I have some thoughts about the BUK theory’s photo evidence.
Let us say it was a human who took this photo. The photo provided shows a plume, a bit diffused, from the ground level. This is the place where the plume would have got more time to diffuse.
Would it be possible to estimate how much time later this pic may have been taken from the width of the plume? How correlated is the plume shape is to a BUK launch? I guess, this should be possible, using some statistical models and estimation techniques. May be somebody who is capable could try.
Anyway, from the pic of Bell. c at , it looks still young (may be in seconds). May be of the order of seconds or a few minutes. At Mach 3, 3000m = 10 sec, 10000m = 30 sec and 20000m = 69 sec. Viewing from ground, the higher portions will become progressively narrower in the field of view because it is farther away. (Would this make the view of the plume more denser here?) The plume at the top would less time to diffuse than at the bottom. For example, at 3000m, diffusion has 10 seconds less time than at bottom.
If an man took this picture, I would expect him to take a few snaps of the plume at top because it will more denser here due to the lesser amount of diffusion. This would be quite natural. Such a photo would possibly look like a thin plume going into a cloud or so. I have not seen any such photo. If the person was quite close to he launch place, then it would have been impossible to get such a view while including sufficient amount of ground objects as a reference. If he was sufficiently far away, this would be easily possible. This may be one aspect to consider while analyzing the photo.
The best case visual evidence could have taken a video of the whole trail sweeping it from bottom to the top. Considering that the plume would have lasted for some time, some one should have had a video of the same. This could have been done by anyone independent of how close he was to the hypothesized launch site.
There were 3 photos and they were taken from an apartment, not ground floor. I’ll try to find the details. Be aware Bellingcat always sets out to prove a point, rather than to find the truth.
This has some of the story with it, and interview with the guy who supposedly took them (and handed them to the Ukrainian SBU). The second shot is the same plume, but with a wide angle lens. Missing her is the the third, taken from the opposite side or the apartment , but it is just one of the routine ones of black smoke from the crash site.
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com.au/2014/12/interview-with-eyewitness-who-made.html
The picture does show the plume going into the clouds. But some questions to answer. (There is an error in earlier comment, time mentioned in previous comment should be divided by 3 for mach 3. 3000m = 3 sec, 10000m=9.8 sec)
According to the statement of the guy who took the photos as reported in the link.
He heard a strange low explosion followed by a louder explosion 15 seconds later (not sure how accurately one say this, this error should be accounted for later). At Mach 3 this would mean a traveled distance of apporx. 340*3*15 = 15.3 km. The photos were taken 30 sec after explosion. Which explosion, first or second, is not clear from the report. This would mean photo is taken either 30 sec after launch or 45 sec after launch (i.e., 30 sec after hit).
[ Two things are ignored here. The propagation delay of the sound in reaching the photographer. To cover 1km sound in air takes approx. 3 sec. The distance to the launch place and the final explosion place will be different. This should also be considered to make it more accurate. As an initial approximation, let us try zero propagation delay.]
1) Does the plume shape at different heights fit these delays?
If we assume the missile flew in a straight line (may be adjusted for a different shape later), then we can find some numbers. The plane was at 10km, missile flew 15.3km. So imagine a right triangle with 10km height and 15.3 as hypotenuse. This given the angle of launch with respect to ground as 41 degrees. This also gives the ground distance between the plane at point of impact and launch site as 11.5 km. (How does all these numbers fit for a buk?)
The launch is at an angle, but the plume is almost vertical in the photo. So, photo is taken along a line which we get by projecting the plume to the horizontal ground. He may either be towards the direction of launch or away from direction of launch.
Any idea how high the cloud was?
Now, i think, the shape of the plume would depend on the distance from the launch site of the photographer. The propagation delay also matters. One could account for different possibilities and test. This needs more time to figure out. I will give a try though.
http://rt.com/news/239881-mh17-ukraine-fighter-jet/
Pilots refutes the designers claim – says that SU-25 is quite capable to do this at this height.
Now regarding the plume photographs.
1) Does anybody know the what was the approximate distance between the location of the photographer and the location of the launch site in the buk theory?
2) Also, anyone know the possible launch angles of buk?
I am trying to make some geometric calculations, assuming the missile path to be a straight line. If there is any link which shows the locations of the camera man and the claimed buk location, impact site etc. Please share.
RE: “Buk plume”
Several months ago, the Saker posted the work of someone who did a detailed analysis of those photos and where the plume originated from and what it was caused by. I don’t remember the name of the post, or its author, though. I believe Colonel Cassad may have also posted the info.
“. . . he says that it is very very difficult for SU-25 to do this. For him it is out of question. Also, difficult to beak up a plane that big with R60. He suggests BUK could do it. . . ”
An entire roof of a 737 Aloha Airlines jet ripped off on a short-hop flight in 1989 due to explosive decompression following metal fatigue, with no one shooting at it at all.
RE: Vladimir Babak, the Su-25 designer interviewed.
He said this back on 28 July, 2014:
Главный конструктор Су-25 не верит, что с него могли сбить малайзийский «Боинг-777»
Yandex:
Chief designer of the su-25 does not believe that it could knock Malaysian “Boeing 777”
The Creator of the su-25 Vladimir Babak believes it is unlikely that it was launched missile of class “air-air”, hit Malaysian airliner Boeing-777″ in the Donetsk region of Ukraine, he said in an interview with ITAR-TASS.
Babak explained that the power of this rocket is not enough to destroy this plane. “Boeing 777″ is quite a large bird, which is not amenable to such small bites, as the missile R-60”, – he said. Chief designer of the attack added that to defeat aircraft missile R-60 su-25 had to go back, because this weapon has an infrared homing guidance, however, the difference in the speeds of the “Boeing” and attack is 100-150 km/h in favor of the liner.
“Due to the significant difference in the speeds of the aircraft to hit the missile R-60 Malaysian aircraft from the rear hemisphere is very difficult. It is very very difficult, I do not believe in the reality of this scenario and that of the Ukrainian su-25 could launch rocket R-60,” said Babak.
Passenger “Boeing 777″ Malaysian airlines crashed in Donetsk oblast on July 17, killing all 298 people aboard. After a disaster, the Ukrainian authorities have posted these wiretaps, which Pro-militants discuss the successful firing of the aircraft by a group of Miner”; the authenticity of the account is not yet confirmed. In the security Service of Ukraine believe that the plane was shot down by a Russian installation Buk M-1, which then drove back to Russia.
The self-proclaimed representatives of Donetsk and Lugansk national republics declare that they do not have the ability to fire from “Beech”, as managing the complex involves undergoing serious training.
There are several things seriously off in his reasoning.
1. Missile cant destroy the aircraft. Doesn’t have to. If it kills the pilots, and causes other damage, the aircraft will break up as it goes out of control and exceeds its designed stress loads. This air break-up has been documented in several airliner crashes in the past that were not attacked by anything.
2. The R-60 has to be fired at the airliner from behind the aircraft in order for the IR homing to work. Rubbish. That was true of early IR homing, but by the mid 1970’s, IR homing had advanced enough that launch at any angle with regard to the target was possible. Babak should know this, it’s really basic stuff.
3. The Su-25 was slower than the Boeing at 10000 metres, so would not be able to get in position behind the Boeing to fire the R-60. Speed of firing aircraft and angle of attack with regard to the airliner would be irrelevant. The Su-25 can fire these missiles from any angle with regard to the target, including from a position underneath and in front of it. As Russian radar had tracked a fighter sized aircraft within 3-5 km of the Boeing, that fighter sized aircraft could have easily used R-60 missiles on the Boeing. Again, this is very basic stuff.
Could an SU-25 fighter jet down a Boeing? Former pilots speak out on MH17 claims
Two experienced Russian AF pilots refute Babak’s claims the Su-25 didn’t have the performance to attack the airliner. The RT also has this bio info about Babak:
Kiev-born Soviet and Russian aircraft designer Vladimir Babak
Also for bio see:
SU-25 Brochure from MAKS 2003
Vladimir Babak, Chief Designer of the Sukhoi Design Bureau JSC, President of the Shturmoviki Sukhogo (Sukhoi Attack Aircraft) Research and Production Concern
Maybe it’s time for Mr. Rogozin to review Mr. Babak’s job performance at Sukhoi because something doesn’t smell right.
It is not certain it was a Su-25 the Russian radar picked up, only that the size of the aircraft detected 3-5 km from the Boeing was that of an Su-25 sized aircraft. That means a similar sized MiG-29 could have also been the attacker. That also means one of the other 2 air vs air missiles in Ukrainian service could have been used (R-27 & R-73).
US Sends Over 100 US Tanks, Armor To Latvia As Nuland “Confirms” Russia Delivering Weapons.
No lesser trustworthy character than Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland explained this morning that the US can “confirm” new Russian weapons delivery to Ukraine and that they “can tell” when Russia sends in new weapons (though offering no explanation of this statement). This comment to the Senate Committee comes a day after the US delivered ‘lethal aid’ to Latvia – 120 armored units (including tanks) – with US Army General John O’Conner who witnessed the tanks arriving on Latvian soil said, “Freedom must be fought for, freedom must be defended.” And finally, one more shot in the eye of the germans, deputy under-secretary of Defense Brian McKeon said the US is “actively considering more weapons for Ukraine,” seemingly implying they alreadt sent some?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-10/us-sends-over-100-us-tanks-armor-latvia-nuland-confirms-russia-delivering-weapons
I listened to this interview the other day, I agree that it is very interesting.
Dr Roberts breaks down complex relations to clear patterns.
I also think he is spot on with Greece, they have more power than they realise, if they can manage to get the courage to default, and turn to the BRICS development bank.
http://www.creators.com/opinion/paul-craig-roberts-about.html
Not an email, but likely to get you close, if not contact.
Out of topic,but interesting:howthe US created Al Quaeda and co(fr, would be nice to have a translated version),but some interviews are in English.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1twVMx6OSk
He says this is done to establish the precedent that the financial system is not responsible for its own mistakes. Well, that precedent had already been established, in the 2008 crisis. But what I think misses the point is that these kinds of loans are not really “mistakes”. The lending institutions know perfectly well when they are “overlending”. Rather, these practices should be seen as calculated mechanisms to transfer wealth from all those people upon whom austerity will be iimposed, as well as the assets of the country, to the vultures above and abroad. It’s as simple as that. It’s a pillage mechanism.
If by “2008 crisis” you mean American fiscal mechanisms to deal with the situation, it differs in many crucial aspects as to what the Troika is subjecting Greece to. USA could monetize its way out of an immediate collapse of the banking sector (they “kicked the can down the road” as the wall street pundits like to say), without genocidal austerity measures. In Greece, on the other hand, the German, Dutch, American banks, Global Hedge Funds etc are forcing Greece to do an internal devaluation (due to Greece’s lack of a devaluation of their currency, which is the Euro), which essentially translates to the Banks forcing severe austerity on the Greek people – because they made the wrong bets.
Like a gambler at a Casino demanding a refund on his irresponsible bets.
The ‘Greeks’ didnt make the bad bets, they were Corzined. The Vampire Squid – Goldman Saks bribed some key pols to sell out Greece. Now the local shmuks are supposed to pay up. Same as ever and everywhere. BTW, where is Corzine after his latest theft of 2 bill benny bucks. It seems that there’s some kind of untouchable class behind all this, but that’s just my perspective.
If you look carefully what I wrote, I highlighted that the creditors made a bad bet and now want a refund, by stealing Greek assets, pensions, social services and so on.
I have re read your comment and my position stands: this was not a mistake. This was just business as usual, with the mess left for others with which to deal. It wasn’t even a bet, in that the creditors were not even playing with their own assets. If anything, these ‘loans’ to Greece were nothing more than ficticious debt creations of the US Fed.
Another example of the evils of fractional reserve banking, magnified by a globally unified system of central banks.
Just try starting a war or running a drug cartel without their cut.
Yes, you’re right, they purposely trap nations in loans that can’t be repaid. The book “I Was An Economic Hit Man” by Perkins shows what sorts of enticements & fraudulent cons are used.
Also sometimes they will use speculative attacks on the country’s currency to make an emergency loan necessary as was done to one of the “Asian tigers” years ago– I forget which one.
Or they inflame a neighbor country into starting a war so that they’ve got to have cash to fight back.
Paul Craig Roberts is 90% correct of the times. When he talks or writes about the “good times” under Ronald Reagan, that’s when he goes off the rails, blinded by his particular blind spot (which we all have in our particular situation).
PCR: “Reagan had no ideology of world hegemony.” [54:20 in the above audio program]
Just tell that to the hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans who died, were maimed, were tortured, disappeared during the reign of the “great communicator”. Or watch Oliver Stone’s movie, Salvador.
Very interesting Greek scenario put forth by PCR, but I don’t think Greece will do it. It’s human nature to delay anything painful until it’s not possible to do so. So, Greece will die a thousands cuts but in the end Greece will default and be kicked out the EU.
I also wonder about how much PCR knows about the Israel lobby. He never talks about it.
Reagan was big on Manifest Destiny and said Western Hemisphere was ours.
He approved 57 covert wars run by Casey.
Reagan didn’t know what hegemony was.
“Reagan had no ideology of world hegemony.” – lol
The Hoover institute marched in with Reagan…..
Ref
Eustace Mullins – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKqKizZjLRQ
Ellen Brown is a gatekeeper for the Rothschild cabal. She never attacks the real problem of today’s mediums of exchange – that they are private debt LOANED INTO CIRCULATION AT USURY. She simply wants to cement that criminality into state governments wherein the people are even more at the mercy of the racket.
I doubt that. She seems like an honest girl to me.
But she is not. She has got huge and solid critism from folks at e.g. Daily Bell or Mises Institute, just google the articles about all the stuff she DOES NOT talk about. I do not say, she is with the Rothschilds, there is no proof for that afaik, but the phony theories she used to be talking about are far from sound economics. She is a dangerous statist. You should never trust a person who is defending state controled monopoly in money supply.
Ellen Brown can’t be everywhere for every person…she’s a practical girl…she’s running for office of some sort, and be assured, if she was in my area, she’d have my vote.
No, Tony B, Ellen Brown is attacking the banksters and their racket directly. If you read her other topics you will see that she also attacks the IMF and its newest regulatory institutions. You may become more knowledgeable about her by reading her books. “Web of Debt” is one of them.
Or you can go to GlobalResearch.ca and use the search box on the site to search Ellen Brown. Her newest articles on the IMF’s newest powers are especially interesting.
Please don’t accuse people who are committed to stopping the banksters.
Yeah, Ellen Brown has started a whole movement of people for local banks…I haven’t studied it alot but its trying to get smaller banks instead of the huge megolithic banks that are Morgan, Chase, Citi…and others.
You know, the ones that all those bankers that are ‘suiciding’ work for…the banks that have life insurance on their staff…so if the staff die, the bank collects life insurance….
Wouldn’t you like to work for a boss like that ???
Tony, that is simply not true. You’re reading too much nonsense online. And this one about supposedly “private” central banking is absolutely thriving since decades and just won’t die, thanks to the gullible guys like you. And thanks to the snake oil sellers and fakes like Ron Paul, who sell the fraud from the “other” side.
Our governments are selling that story. The reality is simple: all major banks and related institutions belong to the state. There is no “private” debt there at all, of any kind.
That’s a simple fallacy to divert people from the real criminals, which are our very own sold-out and corrupted governments. These people could be described as “private property”, but that’s another story altogether.
I read “Web of Debt” by Ellen Brown. She consistently talks about *moneylenders* in such a was that I don’t doubt a trsnslation into German would be greeted here as worthy follow-up on The Elders of Zion.
No, because the “protocols” are well known to be a product of french Jesuits and also make zero sense on their own regarding the content.
The nonsense written by Brown is even worse, she doesn’t even know the most basic facts and hasn’t even bothered reading the Federal Reserve Act and similar laws abroad.
It is government funded disinfo. There are no misterious “moneylenders” but your own government. In case of USA, it’s the Congress. They could end it all today if they so wished.
That’s very weird. If the “Protocols” were written by “French jesuits”, why were they found in Russia by Serghey Nilus ?
About the Feds there is an interesting book all over the internet and even on the Amazon:
Eustace Mullins – Secrets of the Federal Reserve
Jesuits infiltrated Russia in the early 18th century, maybe a little earlier. Been there ever since.
Strange as it may seem.When the Jesuit Order was banned and persecuted in most of Catholic Europe (France,Spain,Portugal,Italy,and the Germanies) the Empress Catherine allowed them refuge in Russia and protected them.Since today they are usually anti-Russian.Nothing seems to have changed much under the heading of European ingratitude to Russia.
the protocols written by jesuits not by ….
he he what a joke
Lots of conspiracy theories here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Trial
You guys aren’t out there doing anything except criticizing the ones that are out there,trying to make a difference.
“Cookie Monster” and Ukraine war architect, Victoria Nuland, says US applies “pressure” on Hungary, Greece, and Cyprus to accept Russian sanctions.
http://redpilltimes.com/cookie-monster-and-ukraine-war-architect-victoria-nuland-says-us-applies-pressure-on-hungary-greece-and-cyprus-to-accept-russian-sanctions/
For those who are new to Paul Craig Roberts’ work this is a good interview to listen to.
I check PCR and this site for new material every day. A newcomer to either site can learn much from the archives, particularly during the past year.
Greek Prime Minister Seeks War Reparations From Germany
Speaking Tuesday at a parliamentary committee meeting on the subject, Tsipras sought reparations from Germany for destroyed infrastructure, stolen archaeological treasures and “occupation credit” in the 1940s.
“The Greek government will strive to honor its commitments to the full. But it will also strive to ensure all unfulfilled obligations toward Greece and the Greek people are fulfilled,” the prime minister said, linking the country’s latest debt negotiations to the subject of war reparations.
Ostensibly rejecting last month’s claims by German leadership that the issue of reparations has long been settled, Tsipras accused the country of employing “silence, legal tricks and delays.”
Tsipras has renewed discussions that Germany must repay the remaining part of its 73-year-old debt to Greece almost immediately, following his anti-austerity Syriza party’s victory two months ago. In 1960, Germany returned one-fourth of the amount it forced the Greek central bank to loan at a zero-interest rate in 1942.
“We are not giving morality lessons, but we will not accept morality lessons either”.
He should be careful, Merkel might travel to Greece and sit on him.
oh boy………the surprises continue
His website is http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/ and he has a form to send feedback under contacts.
Off topic, but interesting
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/03/06/West-Fight-with-Russia/
US seems to have something over Merkel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQmK-51-wJg
speaking of PCR, he himself told me that the puppets in Europe are given bags of money by our ‘beloved’ leaders…bribery.
a little bit OT:
my thoughts on anti Russian propaganda on Slovenian TV, Croatian TV and one Bosnian TV.
Both Slovenian TV (only state channles) and all the Croatian TV channles have strong anti Russian rhetoric. However Bosinain TV channel FTV has a programme called Paralele which does give some insight about geopolitical truth and people might actually grasp the truth.
This all saddens me deeply since we had wars in former Yugoslavia and one would expect that people had lerned their life lessons, but unfortunately no.
Well, for Croatian private TV channles we are aware about who are the owners but what puzzles me most is the state of mind of presstitutes on state TV channels. They are being paid via subscription (obligatory, monthly I think they are getiing about 17mil US$) and still they are lying and war mongering and what should puzzle Russians is how come the state TV is so anti Russian and mostly staff is pro Serbia or pro Yugoslavia orientated. This is mostly visible when long time correspondent from Moscow reports and at the end states that the “order giver” is never prosecuted (refereing to a series of political murders in the past, you can assume who is she thinking of.)
And just to remind you that people are drinking the TV truth here in former Yugoslavia like it is a nectar of life.
A couple business items – minor wrenches in the ZPC/NWO planning.
Czechs Suspend Georgia’s EU Assoc. Agreement, Tbilisi Calls it Blackmail
A tax squabble between a Czech hydroelectric power producer and the country of Georgia has led the Czech Republic’s Foreign Ministry to put Georgia’s Association Agreement on hold.
Czech Foreign Minister Lubomir Zaoralek has confirmed that his ministry had withdrawn the issue and claimed that otherwise the deputies would have failed to ratify it, according to Russia’s newspaper Kommersant. The three-week suspension gives the respective parties the chance to settle the dispute before the ratification.
Russia Rejects EU Request to Convene Panel to Settle Import Taxes Issue
Russia has rejected the first request for the establishment of a panel by the European Union to study its dispute with Russia over tariff treatment of certain agricultural and manufacturing products.
Russia expressed regret over the EU’s decision to convene a panel, as Moscow was ready to find a solution within the framework of ongoing consultations, the source added.
Dear Saker,
this is my first reply on your comment section. As a German living in central Europe, as opposed to the Baltic states and Poland, the populace is split right down the middle with russophobes and warmongers on one side and russophiles on the other.
I never even considered myself a russophile before the western backed putsch in Kiew of last year tore Ukraine in the throngs of a civil war, and our western media whores calling themselves journalists doing a state of the art job which would have made Göbbels. the master of propaganda. blush trashing Russia and its elected president Putin on a daily basis in our msm outlets. I am sick to the stomach with their warmongery and double standards letting gullible Europeans sleepwalk into WW3.
This is beyond the pale.
In reply to Anonymous: Yesterday, German and Dutch media run numerous articles on a story about MH17 with the intent as always to blame Russia, or resistence fighters in Donbass, the so called “separatists”, for the shoot down of the passenger plane.The narrative is based on an interview as you mentioned with Vladimir Babak, the designer of SU-25 according to whom it could only have been a BUK.
How come? 20yrs ago a SU-25 could fly above Mach1. The change since than must have been in the zeitgeist rather than in physics.
Peter Haisenko, the german frm lufthansa pilot investigating MH17 went public with conclusive evidence that two Ukrainian SU-25 shot it down. On photos pieces of fuselage of the plane´s cockpit have been pockmarked like a swiss cheese with holes like machine-gun fire.
Excuse the pun but to me our western media narrative is humbuk.
On German state run and corporate media outlets posters on comment sections were questioning the source bellingcat.How trustworthy is a site with a name most had not heard of before whith etymology suggesting the internet loves felines as much as the usual warmongers in the West hate Russia?
Recently one of the best stand-up comedians in Germany had the courage on state TV to openly go against the western party-line of big bad Russia, blabla. He got the media flak for it afterwards as is expected these days. Anyway, cudos for the brave Volker Pispers and for those who keep up the good fight against western cold war warriars 2.0
Jokes do not translate but truths do.
In the words of Herr Pispers let us spread the truth before it´s to late: „Never, never in her history has Russia attacked the West, or what the West called itself in the times of Napoleon and Hitler. It was always the other way round. Russia was always attacked by us, the West, and Russia always beat her aggressors comming from the West.“
I know he is right for my late granddad who Hitler had conscripted into his Wehrmacht to annihilate Russia told me so. He survived and unlike many spoke with nothing but the greatest disdain of most of his countrymen and with nothing but the greatest regard of the Russian people and their soldiers who fought like no people in history ever did ,they lost millions of lives, to fight Nazi evil comming from the West.
BTW, unlike Angela Merkel I was not born in the frm communist GDR. Like most Germans who do not hail from that part of the woods I don´t speak Russian.
Anglo-American warmongers and their European lackeys are trying to instigate another profitable war for the financial elite between Russia and the West, pitting European people against each other. Poles and Baltic ppl as opposed to central European ppl often have a traumatic history with communism which they falsly conflate with Russian people in general. Never mind the fact that Trozky, Stalin, Chrustev were no Russians. Not to speak of Marx and Engels.Both of whom were German..
on behalf of Saker, greetings and welcome
I hope that in the near future you can encorporate ‘up/down’ votes, if only for moderators. Thanks for your good works.
I agree, welcome Shnerwitzen…And I just realized that the ONLY reason Merkel speaks Russian is because of that. good point.
I would love to see a conversation on the Greek economic situation involving Dr. Paul Craig Roberts and Dr. Yanis Varoufakis. I think this conversation would be fascinating.
To give all a flavor of the intellectual qualities of the Greek Finance Minister check out this 20 minutes video…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqZ2evtU0Yg
Here he gives a keynote speech at the 6th Subversive Festival on May 14, 2013. This is a long speech (1:37) and given almost completely without notes. Amazing…..
“Confessions of an “Erratic” Marxist”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3uNIgDmqwI
Off topic, but just read that Dudaev sad he was coerced to confess, that he did not do it and that they all were tortured and tricked into cooperating. Any info? Seems like a big embarrassment for the State to allow something like this in such a case. Could it really be that the warmongers have an ace up their sleeve?
That sounds like total BS (especially without links).If the FSB was going to torture and coerce him to confess.They would certainly not allow him access to make statements accusing them of that.
Please put the link yourself in future.
Here is one of several now.
“Torture” was being handcuffed and feet tied together.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31829723
Here is the actual interview: http://www.mk.ru/politics/2015/03/10/zaur-dadaev-rasskazal-v-sizo-o-svoem-zaderzhanii-i-dele-nemcova.html
As I said on another tread here, /nemtsov-murder-more-questions-than-answers/#comment-77699 , what these suspects claim is ultimately of no consequence, merely curious how they now retreated from prior confession.
As for the interviewer, certainly not someone with “western sympathies”: MK.ru is the communist youth media outlet, definitely more anti-western than a number of fifth-columnists within the ruling “Единая Руссия” itself.
(Correction: of course, “Единая Рoссия”, not “Единая Руссия”.)
US Ally in Libya Joins ISIL and Leads Its Forces in the Country – Abdelhakim Belhadj, who despite ties to al-Qaeda was backed by the United States and NATO during the overthrow of Moammar Gadhafi, has joined the Islamic State in Libya and is leading forces there, according to US intelligence officials.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/news/20150305/1019074958.html#ixzz3U4oATJLz
Tsipras Slams “Crimes Of Third Reich And Hitler’s Hordes”, Threatens Seizure Of German Assets
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/11/2015 – 08:28
Earlier today, Greek Prime Minister Tsipras was busy not making German friends, following the latest Greek overture to confiscate German assets in response for allegedly unpaid German WWII reparations. “After the reunification of Germany in 1990, the legal and political conditions were created for this issue to be solved. But since then, German governments chose silence, legal tricks and delay. And I wonder, because there is a lot of talk at the European level these days about moral issues: is this stance moral?” Tsipras said and added that “despite the crimes of the Third Reich and Hitler’s hordes, the German debt was written off.” As a result Greece is now seeking to recoup German WWII reparations which may amount to as much as 80% of Greek GDP!
yeah, think of all the art objects that are from ancient Greece.
Major General Robert Scales wants more dead Russians. So he says on Fox News Network.
Here’s this genius’ military background. Notice that his great combat experience was to get his artillery group overrun by 100 North Vietnamese. He was decorated for this event.
Typical of the experts from the US military. Saw little or no combat. When they did, it usually was pathetic or against a pathetic force like Saddam or Libya and mostly from the air or distant carriers.
“After graduating from West Point in 1966,[3] he was commissioned as a field artillery officer and sent to West Germany, instead of South Vietnam. After two years in Europe, he was posted to Vietnam, but it was another year before he saw real action. After an artillery commander was killed, Scales was his replacement prior to the Battle of Hamburger Hill. He was awarded the Silver Star for his actions on June 14, 1969, when nearly a hundred North Vietnamese soldiers overran his base in a predawn assault. Despite explosions all around him, he rotated among his artillery units, firing at the enemy, helping his men, and radioing instructions to helicopter gunships.[2]
In the early 1970s, Scales earned a master’s and Ph.D. in history from Duke University.
Beginning in 1982, Scales was a field artillery battalion commander in South Korea.
From 1986 to 1988, Scales served as deputy chief of staff for the U.S. Army V Corps in Frankfurt, West Germany.
In 1990, Scales commanded the U.S. Army Field Artillery School at Fort Sill, Oklahoma.
Scales was named director of the Desert Storm Special Study Group in 1991, and authored the book, Certain Victory, the U.S. Army’s official account of the first Persian Gulf War. The book was published in 1994, the first of seven he has written.
In 1995 he became deputy chief of staff for the Army Training and Doctrine Command, developing a blueprint for designing future military forces.
The high point of his career was his appointment as commandant of the U.S. Army War College in 1997.[2]
Scales retired in November 2000 after 34 years of service.”
The last great generals in American history who knew war, hated war and were experts ended in Korea.
The war-mongers and desk jockey types have been in the spotlight ever since.
Ironically, our special operators are probably the best ground warriors ever. But they have been led by mediocrities into endless, useless geopolitical conflicts.
Major General Robert Scales wants more dead Russians. So he says on Fox News Network.
Scales is the sort of valueless “Conchita Wurst” scum that now make up the brass in Israel’s head colony. The ideal sort for Fox faggot News. Too bad he and the newsroom crew weren’t on that helicopter that crashed in Florida.
The CEO of Caterpillar says “Russia need regime change”.
Well, when you act weak and confusing, you embolden your enemies and discourage/disappoint your friends.
Even if your enemies are weaker, they get extra advantage from being more confident in their actions. In parallel, your friends get more disorganized and more suspicious about doing or not doing something.
Please reflect about this and compare the current situation with what Russia (the tsar) (non)-did in 1917.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-11/caterpillar-ceo-says-russia-needs-regime-change-?cmpid=yhoo
Hi you inadvertantly trible posted. The comments here are moderated so its a few minutes for them to be reviewed. I deleted your extra posts
I agree with Tony B. (1:18). Ellen and Paul are just blowing more smoke. They can’t acknowledge the elephant in the room without losing their jobs and followers. The elephant is called usury, and was condemned for thousands of years. Some comments defend the Ellen and Paul types by obfuscations like Ellen condemns moneychangers. But moneychangers are not moneylenders at interest. I listened to twenty minutes but it’s the same old nonsense that will eventually flush us all down the drain insofar as we are participants in this racket. I wouldn’t touch this snake pit with a ten foot pole no matter how many Paul and Ellen’s insinuate it’s safe. More at thelovegovernment.com.
“The greatest miracle Christianity has achieved in America is that the black man in white Christian hands has not grown violent. It is a miracle that 22 million black people have not risen up against their oppressors – in which they would have been justified by all moral criteria, and even by the democratic tradition! It is a miracle that a nation of black people has so fervently continued to believe in a turn-the-other-cheek and heaven-for-you-after-you-die philosophy! It is a miracle that the American black people have remained a peaceful people, while catching all the centuries of hell that they have caught, here in white man’s heaven! The miracle is that the white man’s puppet Negro ‘leaders’, his preachers and the educated Negroes laden with degrees, and others who have been allowed to wax fat off their black poor brothers, have been able to hold the black masses quiet until now.”
― Malcolm X
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/03/12/401435/Blacks-shot-down-by-US-police-like-dogs
Those who value Reality should not go near those whose Value & Valuation include Fame, Fortune & Immortality [FF&I]. Like those who are into “Facebook” and similar mesmerisms, justified by, “They are soo popular that should you need Popularity, oka Effectively Spreading Da Message, “Facebook” is then your man/means”.
This is important because like it, believe it, realise it, or not, FF&I are merely The Facades of Malevolence, oka Nazism/Control-Freakism, who pastime-hobby/harbinger/latency is Abandonment. This is because there is no such thing as Truth within Untruth no matter how hard the multi-facetted human tries, The Multiplicity of Choices being The Concept The Chosen Few’s Whoring Sista, Propaganda, oka The Oral Gymnasium, liberated to pre-post occupy the “Multi-Facetted” human.
@ Anonimous :Greetings my fellow countryman! REMINDER:Buk always atacks airplanes from ABOWE!Also there , abowe, is biggest effective targeted surface of enemy aircraft.Buk has, in his warhead a cube shaped shrapnells made from tungsten alloy.Holes in downed aircraft are round ,and cube like shrapnells dont make round holes !
Paradoxically, the collapse of the Soviet Union became the worst catastrophe in US history….