Foreword: I am so busy with the events in the Ukraine that I barely had the time to follow the events in Ferguson so I will readily admit that I have no opinion about it. I do have quite a few opinions about race-relations in the USA, including some rather politically incorrect ones (I don’t consider US Blacks either as either Africans or Americans, for example). While I lived in Washington DC (from 1986-1991) at the time of Marion Barry and I often found myself on the receiving end of Black racism and yet I consider Malcolm X the greatest “American” (in quotation because he never considered himself “American” and neither do I) in the history of the USA and one of my personal heroes. I now live in the South (though one could argue that Florida is culturally north of the Carolinas) where I have African and local Black friends tell me very interesting stories about how it feels to be Black and have your car pulled over by a cop. I find the issue of race relations in the USA absolutely fascinating if tragic, but right now is not the time for me to deal with this issue. But one day, if somebody is interested, I might. Right now, the Russian Team has requested articles about the events in Ferguson and one of the best ones was written up by Nora. Now, full disclosure and warning: I consider Nora as a personal friend and a wise and kind lady, don’t you even think of posting something ugly if you disagree with her. You are more than welcome to criticize and disagree, but make darn sure it is substantive and respectful towards Nora. Second, while race is most definitely an issue in the USA, any racist post will immediately go to the trash. Criticize Blacks or Whites as a social group if you want, or White or Black organizations, but do not use any argument which implies that a member of race X has his/her free will restricted by his ethnicity or which lumps all the individual people into one. Deal?
The Saker
——-
What Happened in Ferguson
Setting The Stage
To set the stage for what happened in Ferguson, it would probably be helpful to understand a bit about how the deck has been stacked against people of color in the United States. Although slavery officially ended in 1863, it was ultimately replaced in the South by not only the state-sponsored terrorism of Jim Crow but unofficial re-enslavement via both the sharecropping system and arrest on trumped-up charges leading to unpaid labor on prison chain gangs. The Civil Rights Era brought an end to the worst of this but the War on Drugs ensured that African Americans continue to be arrested and imprisoned at more than twice the rate of whites for similar offenses even though drug usage is about the same for both groups. And outrageously underpaid prison labor in for-profit private prisons is now replacing what little remains of American manufacturing.
Richard Nixon augmented white resentment in the way he “resolved” the implementation of Brown vs. The Board, the landmark 1954 Supreme Court decision on school desegregation, because he shrewdly realized that working-class white Democrats, North and South, would happily become Republicans if the Republican Party “took their side” on the issue. The end result of that was that re-segregation occurred and black schools are now once again under-funded, with poorer facilities, out-of-date and sometimes even *no* books (!), and generally much worse teachers. I.e., not much has really changed at all in terms of education either.
Worse yet, although blacks once lived in all areas of this country, beginning in the third quarter of the 19th century, they were herded into the cities and literally forbidden to be in many towns after dark. And the parts of the cities they live in generally have far worse services — less frequent garbage pick-up or snow-removal, streets and street lights not well-maintained — but still very high rents, especially considering the quality of the housing. Ostensibly these problems were to have ended with the passage of various Civil Rights laws but again, not really. Redlining is an ongoing process by which blacks are prevented from buying homes in certain areas by making it far more difficult to obtain mortgages and setting higher interest rates for them than whites with similar qualifications. Given that home ownership is generally the primary source of wealth for most American families, this arena too has been closed off to most African Americans. And finally, jobs: given two candidates equally qualified for a position, the African American is significantly less likely to be hired.
White attitudes meanwhile have not shown much improvement either. This is in part due to Nixon’s Southern Strategy for re-empowering the Republican Party, and in part due to Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush’s deliberate race-baiting (and vote-getting) strategies, including deliberately trumping up white fears of black violence and lying about the extent of welfare fraud by blacks. But the Democrats, frightened at their loss of white voters, weren’t much better: Bill Clinton’s Welfare Reform hurt a lot of innocent people, white and black, because he too wanted to look tough on black crime — which had actually been declining — while ignoring the serious and far more expensive crimes of wealthy whites. Another factor here is due to the relative isolation of whites from blacks: it’s far easier to remain afraid of people you never get to know, especially if the media commentators you trust keep filling you with stereotypes instead of telling the truth. And make no mistake about it: the most prejudiced whites are also the most frightened whites. Sadly, it is not only to the benefit of the Republican Party to keep them that way but, because few blacks vote Republican, the Democratic Party really doesn’t have to work very hard to get the black vote — so they don’t much bother either. So it’s a truly lose-lose situation there too.
Now for the police. Racial profiling and police brutality have always been a fact of life for people of color in this country. This stems in part from the fact that traditionally the people recruited to be policemen have been quite likely to view blacks as inherently inferior, dangerous and more likely to be criminal. Gun use is deeply ingrained in American culture, and those who hold such racist views are particularly likely to see their guns as essential for personal safety and the only real way to maintain public order. It should also be noted that fears of a black insurrection as well as the desire to conserve one’s human property led quite early to the formation of armed paramilitary slave patrols throughout the South, a primary reason for both the inclusion and peculiar wording of the Second Amendment. http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery The growth of the American gun lobby over the past 25 years has both fed upon and reinforced these views but in point of fact, parents in the black community have traditionally had to sit their pre-teen children down for the rite of passage known as “The Talk”, in which they’re given very specific instructions on how to behave with sufficient meekness and submission to, hopefully, remain alive.
However, the over-militarization of local police — up to and including official instructions to consider and respond to non-violent protesters as terrorists — is a disturbing new trend. The Department of Homeland Security has been a huge profit-making venture for the Military Industrial Complex, both in terms of providing taxpayer-funded grants to local police and fire departments ostensibly to protect us from terror attacks but in fact to ensure that items no longer needed for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq could be sold somewhere. So now the tiniest rural fire departments have armoured vehicles they can hardly afford to fuel, and local police have the latest in military equipment and Mossad training inculcating in them a genuine terror of the population — i.e., us — they are paid with our tax dollars to protect.
A commenter on the English version of this blog who lives in a Washington DC suburb recently called her local police department about a possible fraud case which ordinarily would have required simple fact-finding by a single detective. Instead, a fully-armed five-man SWAT team arrived at the wrong address, ready to fire. These events are increasingly common across the board, with innocent people of every age and color and sometimes even their pets being brutalized and/or murdered at traffic stops, in clearly non-violent situations in their own homes when simple medical or other assistance had been requested or again the police burst into the wrong home, and/or the simply because the policeman did not feel his (often quite arbitrary and illegal) orders were being sufficiently obeyed. There is also considerable evidence to suggest poor screening for excess violence or poor behavioral controls, previous job infractions of this sort and/or drug and alcohol abuse among applicants for police work.
Add in a “normal” quantity of southern racism (also quite present in the North, of course, reinvigorated by Sarah Palin and deliberately amplified by various rightwing media in efforts to get Republicans out to vote), a large group of African Americans recently moved from the inner city to one of the few areas they were begrudgingly allowed to enter, and a town whose second-largest source of operating revenues comes from the fines and fees paid by African Americans disproportionately targeted for traffic stops and other low level offenses http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/27/is_ferguson_feeding_on_the_poor and yes, Ferguson was a recipe for disaster. The event itself though, while hardly atypical, is in some ways less interesting than its aftermath, which provides almost a Rohrschach test for America’s people, media and governance at this point in time.
The Event
The evidence on which all parties agree is that Michael Brown was an unarmed 18-year-old highly regarded by his teachers who wanted to start his own business and had no criminal record. He was shot and killed by Ferguson, MO police officer Darren Wilson while walking with a friend to visit his grandmother at approximately noon on Sunday, August 9, 2014, just two days before he was due to start college. There is no police video of the shooting although an audiotape of several shots appears legitimate and many eyewitness tweets and a later video of Brown’s body are also on record; nevertheless, many details of the incident remain unclear. What can be stated without dispute is that Wilson stopped the two teens and ordered them with rather questionable legality to get off the street and onto the sidewalk; accounts differ as to how hostile this confrontation was or whether Brown remained on the street, was pulled by Wilson towards or into the car or was at some point actually in the car assaulting Wilson as later claimed by the police. It is fairly well established, however, that Wilson was seated in his car when he first shot at Brown and his friend through the open car window but missed as they fled. He then got out of his car, fired again at Brown and continued to shoot multiple rounds after the teen turned around with his hands up, ultimately killing him with a shot in the head as he fell. What happened next is like plate tectonics or watching a Greek tragedy unfold.
The Aftermath
Not trusting the hostile and overwhelmingly white power structure in Ferguson, Brown’s family requested a private autopsy by a former NYC forensic pathologist; his results showed nine gunshot wounds (four on the right arm, three on the head and two on the chest) suggesting he had been shot at least six times though not from very close range since there was no gunshot residue on the body. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0 However, the full findings from the official autopsy by the St. Louis County medical examiner’s office have not been made public, so the presence of any residue on Brown’s clothing or in Wilson’s car remains uncertain. The Justice Department was also asked to conduct an autopsy, though it is highly doubtful that additional information can be obtained.
Michael Brown’s body lay in the street for four hours afterwards at police insistence, Wilson’s name was not revealed for another week and although the Ferguson Police Department filed an incident report on 8/15 alleging that Brown and his friend had committed a robbery just before he was killed, it took the department another full week to file even a highly-abbreviated report of his murder. It was acknowledged, however, that Wilson had no knowledge of the robbery at the time he ordered Brown off the street.
Meanwhile, when the police finally allowed people to access the site of his death, Brown’s family and other residents placed flowers and candles over the bloodstains on the street. At that point, in gestures of contempt quite familiar to people who had lived through Jim Crow, one policeman let his dog urinate on the memorial and others re-blocked the street from cars and then deliberately drove their cars over the candles and flowers, scattering the petals, ruining the memorial and deeply horrifying the already shocked, grieving people. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/ferguson-st-louis-police-tactics-dogs-michael-brown
Over the next few nights the unarmed mourners and protesters grew increasingly restless and perhaps a dozen of them began looting and vandalizing and set one business on fire. Accustomed to enforced deference but at this point genuinely afraid they might have a riot on their hands, the police refused to acknowledge any culpability, attempted with questionable veracity to place the entire blame on Brown, and responded to the protesters according to the Mossad training provided their chief. This included riot gear, SWAT team tactics and helicopters the first night, followed by tear gas, wooden pellets, rubber bullets, smoke bombs, and flash grenades. The results were about as predicted, the governor intervened, steps were taken to calm things down, more people protested, the situation gained national attention, the media took their accustomed positions along predetermined political fault lines, the police over-reacted again, the intensity ebbed and flowed, the National Guard were called in, many people were roughed up, threatened and arrested, including several journalists, and statements by the Obama administration appeared more interested in the violence perpetrated by the protesters than against Michael Brown. Things finally began to calm down after his funeral.
The Fault Lines
Every single part of this tragedy, up to and including the poor training, judgment and violent behavior by some of the police, was utterly predictable; so too was the sensationalized and highly-slanted media coverage, the location, content and intensity of the public outcry on both sides of the Left-Right political divide with the typical uncaring indifference in the middle, and the far greater amount of money collected on behalf of Darren Wilson than Michael Brown. http://www.ksdk.com/story/homepage/2014/08/23/cash-raised-for-mo-cop-surpasses-brown-donations/14506401/ The intensity of the protesters’ response is likewise hardly surprising given the destruction of a simple memorial to a murdered teenager whose body was not yet cold, performed deliberately by members of the same organization as the man who had killed him under highly questionable circumstances.
It is equally important to recognize that what happened in Ferguson was hardly an anomaly: not a single thing happened there that hasn’t happened in many places in this country many times before. In fact, taking a longer view, the biggest question is why the media chose to give it so much coverage. And the answer to that most likely has more to do with their own increasingly precarious finances and the current state of our foreign rather than domestic affairs and their resulting assessment once again that the public really needs a strong diversion and the inculcation of yet more fear.
Nevertheless, just as people all over the world are becoming increasingly aware of the Anglo-Zionist Empire’s true role in taking over and/or destroying so many other countries, the ugly difference between myth and reality in American life — essentially unchanged since our very beginning — has been revealed for everyone to see. The sad truth, however, is that the vast majority of Americans remain locked in to their own propaganda-induced preconceptions, and while efforts continue to be made to address the underlying issues of police militarization, brutality and unequal treatment before the law, the likelihood of genuine improvement in any of these areas is extremely low.
A Word About Sources
Please feel free to ask if you have any questions. For more information on any of this, I will be happy to provide all sorts of URLS but for a deep and nuanced view of the African American experience I cannot more highly recommend a writer and blogger named Ta-Nehisi Coates. He sees things clearly, thinks things through exquisitely well, and is a genuinely superb writer. http://www.theatlantic.com/ta-nehisi-coates/ Another good resource on this issue and others affecting African Americans is Professor Gerald Horne, interviewed here in a six-part series with transcripts: http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12258 Alexander Reid Ross also provides an interesting and informative view of other developments in Ferguson that have an impact on this case, http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/28/notes-on-ferguson/ And finally, The Color Of Change, http://colorofchange.org/ and Black Is Back Coalition http://www.blackisbackcoalition.org/2014/08/27/national-march-on-ferguson-saturday-aug-30th/ are both good resources for anyone interested in the determinedly measured response by the African American community and its supporters to resolving these issues.
Come again? If US Blacks are neither African nor American, what do you consider them to be?
A well balanced article. Only I have a different take on slavery being abolished. I believe it never was abolished. In fact everybody was enslaved. Only the elites remined free. And yes freedom is mostly financial. The rest is myth.
If there was ever a time to continue the revolutionary work of Malcolm X and the Black Panther Party for Self Defense – that time is now. I urge all men and women of good will, of all colors, to rise up, to armed resistance against the government of the USA.
It’s a Protestant culture, hence one that posits some are “chosen for salvation” (the ‘elect’) while others are doomed to hell.
One of the ways the ‘elect’ prove God ‘has chosen them’ is by being wealthy (See Max Weber’s The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism).
You’re rich, you’re God’s chosen. You’re poor, you’re trash.
It’s a culture of entitlement for the “chosen”.
You can see that thought at work at every level of American society – the country deems itself “exceptional” (elect) and feels the international laws don’t apply to them, the Whites feel entitled to treat the Black as underlings, everybody is on a get-rich race, trample-on-your-inferiors mindset.
It’s awful.
And I don’t see how on earth it could get better. I don’t need to tell you that secularist, atheist Americans are just as infected by that thought as the religious folks. Once again, it’s a whole culture.
Brown V. Topeka was an interesting reason for judgement by the Supreme Court, unfortunately the judgement did not deal with education, rather it attempted to deal with racial/political issues.
Was the Court interested in education it would have opined that any resident child of the US has a right to equal quality of education, both in substance of the particular course and the choice of the highest level available to the age group anywhere in the US.
Due to this illogical ill considered judgement, the situation could arise which was well depicted by Nora.
Notable that numerous education related cases e.g. Kentucky, Texas et al talk about anything but the educational opportunity for the students [e.g funding, bureaucratic control etc]
Dearest Sister Nora,
Excellent article, says it all! ~:)
Though, I don’t understand one thing. Over the years, Blacks have used all kind of titles to identify themselves. The one I just dislike is “African American”.
Why not just “American” as they are Americans as Apple Pie.
One doesn’t hear “British American”, “French American”, “German American ….
These titles are noting but divisions. We are all Americans. Period.
However, we have different colors or tones of skin. And, Black is as beautiful as other colors/tones.
In Iraq when they “greet” someone, they ask, “What is your color”, thus implying what tone your skin is today.
When I told this to three Americans, One Black, One White and One Brown, the White One jumped on me saying how racist I am or the Iraqis are. I told him before you jump the gun, this is how each and every culture/race is greeted.
Depending on different tones of our skin, we can be sick, happy, generous, jealous, sick and so forth. Racists always reacts before their time, just like the cop did in Ferguson.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Thank you Nora and Saker.
I usually only read this blog but, I do so practically daily and have done so since the beginning of this Ukraine fiasco that our country is currently manipulating. I care about what we are doing to the people there.
The way I see things with regard to race relations in this country, there is very little difference in our actions regarding Russia and the Ukraine and blacks in America. Russia is the international boogey man and blacks are the domestic boogey men. There has always been a media campaign to highlight blacks as the worst offenders, just as the Cold War was intended to portray Russia as the embodiment of evil.
If one were to take a step back and observe just how we operate in our foreign affairs, one would see parallels throughout history that operate within our country in minority areas. We are masters at creating the chaos then pretending to be the solution. The Opium Wars between England and China and the Contras that were allowed to peddle their drugs in the urban areas, thus creating the need for a War on Drugs. The deliberate arming of both sides of a conflict in Africa and Muslim countries, and the ability of inner city youth to acquire military grade weapons, when most have never been outside their own neighborhoods.
There is more to the reason the NRA does not want accountability than we are led to believe. Just as we allow the “undesirables” to do away with each other in foreign affairs, we also do so here at home. And of course it gives carte blanche to authorities to deal harshly with such peoples, including extrajudicial capital punishment for snatching a few $2 cigars from a store shelf.
Very well written. ..thank you nora!
There is much wrong with American policing. I reviewed Radley Balko’s The Rise of the Warrior Cop and almost completely agree with it.
That said, what you wrote is more than a little tendentious. The young man may not have been the angel he is made out to be. There is a video of him robbing a convenience store and intimidating the clerk a short while before his death.
This does not mean that he should have been killed, but that there are two sides to every story. From the sources you have listed, it is obvious you only wanted to see what suits your bias.
I have thought Vineyard of the Saker a corrective to the insane war mongering against Russia. I have now to question whether or not you are objective.
This is post is pure fantasy. I am utterly heartbroken that something like this could be taken seriously by the Saker. :(
Here’s an alternate version of what happened in Ferguson, minus the grossly biased, border-line anti-white preamble that takes up half of Nora’s post:
Part 1:
The story of Ferguson has gone away from the press in the United States because the consensus of the witnesses to the event is that Michael Brown (the deceased) attacked officer Darren Wilson (the officer in question), pushed him into his patrol car and attempted to steal his sidearm, at which point a single round (possibly more) was discharged in the vehicle as the two struggled. It is unclear as to how events proceeded from this point, but Michael Brown (who was 1.94 meters tall and 131 kilograms) ended up shot six times (all frontally, none from behind). corroborates this version of events, even though Brown’s fellow-perpetrator attempts to fabricate facile explanations for the events: “[officer Wilson] tried to open his door aggressively, the door ricocheted both off me and Big Mike’s body and closed back on the officer” and “Still in his car, the officer then grabbed Brown by his neck, Johnson said. Brown tried to pull away, but the officer kept pulling Brown toward him” – why would the officer want to pull his attacker back on top of him where him?)
Brown had also been caught before the event on the surveillance camera in a convenience store robbing the clerk of a box of cigars (valued at $48.99). He reached behind the counter and simply took the item directly in front of the clerk, who appears to be a small elderly man. The clerk followed him out of the store demanding he return the stolen item, and Michael Brown clearly pushes, assaults and menaces the poor clerk as he forces his way out of the store.
There is no question that the police in America have become highly militarized – and dangerous as a result. Many have been trained to react aggressively to the smallest infraction and believe that they must obtain compliance in every situation, no matter the level force they must apply. Many are inflexible, unreasonable or simply corrupt (as in many or most countries.) Significant numbers of the larger departments have undergone training in Israel. But the simple fact is this: it is not racist to state the simple truth that the African-American population of the United States is disproportionately violent and disproportionately inclined to crime and mayhem. I am not a racist. I am only stating the simple truth as I know it from personal experience on many occasions: many black people in America are cruel, violent and have little or no regard for the lives, dignity or property of anyone – be they black or white. I live in the city of Pittsburgh and there are at least a 8-10 neighborhoods I can name in which it is simply not safe for a white person to go walking because there is a strong chance they will be beaten, robbed, raped or killed – often simply for being white. Dozens of major American cities are the same. I know this from personal experience. This is not to say that all black people are this way or that there are not myriads of white people who are this way, it is only to state that, for whatever reason, black folks in America are more violent and disrespectful of law and order than other “races” or ethnicities. Anyone who lives here long enough and observes will come to the same conclusion. Does that make them racist? Whether this state of affairs among the black communities is a result of the historical treatment of blacks at the hands of “whites” is an altogether different and historical question that is immaterial to how the police must respond to crimes and misdemeanors on the streets of America today.
Part 2:
When the news of Michael Brown’s death at the hands of a white police officer became widely known, several hundred African American citizens of Ferguson gathered together and began to attack local stores and shops. Breaking their windows and looting the merchandise. When the police came (the regular beat cops, not the heavy riot police), the looters scattered and reemerged on the other side of town as a “protest.” The important thing to remember about the events in Ferguson is that they started out with looting and rioting – a legitimate pretext, perhaps one of the few, for martial-law type police deployment. Only afterward did lawful, civil protest begin to slowly organize. But even after the initial looting and initial protest, when the protesters moved away from the police presence, they immediately reverted to looting! This was all on the first few days after the event, before the militarized police ever got there. The military police came to stop looting and rioting, but when the rioters saw them, the simply began to “protest.” To verify all of the above, simply google or otherwise search for “ferguson looting” or “ferguson riots.” This will return dozens of links to stories about it.
It was only after this that militarized riot police were deployed. From that point onward, it became a spectacle, nothing more. There were very few instances of bona fide unlawful police brutality, in my opinion anyway. As I said, one of the very few legitimate reasons to deploy a militarized police force with martial authority (which no police in Ferguson had) is riots and looting. Most realistic people agree with this. The entire world has seen what happens when the violent mob is allowed to dictate to the police – in February on the Maidan.
The key point to remember about Ferguson is that the Anglo-Zionist regime that rules America works every way that it can to create racial tension between blacks and whites and other groups. The media, think-tanks, universities, many protestant “churches” and many other interest-groups benefit greatly by exaggerating and exacerbating racial tensions in America. There is very little true “racism” against blacks people in America. Most whites are deferential and overly-solicitous toward blacks (and many blacks even notice this and interpret it as a kind of crypto-racism!) Altogether, 90% of white people are free of consequential bias against black people. The police on the other hand cannot help but be more cautious and skeptical of the black communities – not because the officers are racist, but because in their personal experience blacks tend to be disproportionately violent, contemptuous of the rights of others and unwilling to submit to lawful authority. Do innocent black people often pay the price for this communal trend at the hands of nervous or prejudiced officers? Yes, absolutely and those instances should be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Was the shooting of Michael Brown such a case? Not in the opinion of this correspondent.
@EVERYBODY: I promised no racist comments on this thread, but one was so priceless in its illustrative power that I decided to make an exception. Check out what this creature had to say:
Idiotic moron, how long i have to tell you,that we white races have to invade semitic and ugly indian races Fuck you.fuck all these brown faggots I will dump my shit on brown indians and ugly semitic faggots including filthy Jews
Priceless, no? I have to admit that while I generally feel depressed by the hate I feel from hatemail, but sometimes get a good laugh too. Some of these guys really break down the lower limit of how pathetically stupid and illiterate one can be. I wait for the day I get an email saying that “kaka, pipi, fuck fuck fuck, ass ass, Jew Jew Jew” or something equally evocative and lyrical.
Yeah, sure, the world is sometimes ugly and depressing, and these kind of creatures pollute it just by their presence, but sometimes we can also all have a good laugh at how clueless and impotent (thank God!) they are. No?
Also, this is not the first time this creature tries to post here. It seems to be particularly hateful towards Indians (not sure of it means Native Americans or Indians from India), and one time it even manged to sneak through my moderation (I was exhausted that day). Why Indians? It never explained. Why does it try to post so regularly? I have no idea. Why does it even bother coming to this blog? Mystery.
Anyway, I had a good belly-laugh when I got this one and I wanted to share it with you. Sorry if I inadvertently offended anybody (and don’t bother disputing this creature’s confused rant, there is no “argument” to refute in it).
Actually, if you guys like the idea, I might create a “hateful jerk of the day” or “hateful jerk of the week” competition in which I post the most hate-filled and moronic post or email I got. Again, for no other purposes than a good laugh. What do you guys think? Shall I do that or not?
Kind regards,
The Saker
@Joseph Moroco: That said, what you wrote is more than a little tendentious. The young man may not have been the angel he is made out to be. There is a video of him robbing a convenience store and intimidating the clerk a short while before his death.
This does not mean that he should have been killed, but that there are two sides to every story. From the sources you have listed, it is obvious you only wanted to see what suits your bias.
When I first landed in USA in 1972, I found out a concept being applied in law, “Innocent until proven guilty”
Every American I met used to brag about the above as they have discovered, “Apple Pie”. I didn’t pop their bubble telling them that it is the Islamic Concept. I just used to let them brag to an under prevailed foreigner.
What happened to young man’s right “Innocent until proven guilty”. He was guilty of robbing a convenience store and intimidating the clerk. Therefore, he got “Capital Punishment”.
The bastards ISIS will be proud of their brothers in Ferguson.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Saker,
Your warning about being disrespectful towards Nora is appropriate, and I hope it will be effective. However, in emphasizing that you consider Nora to be a personal friend, it somewhat diminishes what has seemed to be a featured philosophy on your blog. That is, that you have little tolerance for disrespect, and that polite conversation is the correct conduct here. I sincerely hope and fully expect that you will have the fortitude to continue to insist on this conduct, not just toward Nora, but toward all. Keep up the good work.
You are a valuable source of information on the Slavic world, but not so useful when it comes to the country you are visiting.
If you want to understand what was going on in Ferguson, try : http://theconservativetreehouse.com/
@Saker: Shall I do that or not?
Not Dear Saker, we hear this shit on a constant daily basis. They don’t deserve to be on your spiritual and beautiful blog.
Shalom, Peace, Salam,
Mohamed.
Shame on the US.
I am of African descent. Lived in the UK for 13yrs and been living in the USA for 12 yrs.
Notice how racial tensions escalate, as the economy goes down the drain. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Race_Riot_of_1919 till present.
I am proud to say that I will be leaving the US and returning to my homeland, Africa, having witnessed the begin of the demise of a very cruel empire.
Please stick it to Ukraine. Ferguson is just a sad case of black racism in which asian and arab businesses are being looted and burned by people who care more for a black criminal than for law enforcement.
“hateful jerk of the week”
That’s enough no reason to take time away from family and the site for hate.
The Saker 20:59
The example you have included is indeed priceless, but it is also lacking stylistically. The author is clearly an amateur as (s)he has not exploited the use of All Caps for emphasis of expletives.
Jerk of the day/week would be an excellent idea.
Good article but it still lacks some meat. Slavery was still practiced in the united states as late as the 20th century. Here is a good article on the subject. http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/souths-shocking-hidden-history-thousands-blacks-forced-slavery-until-ww2?page=0%2C5
-The FBI has been at war against organized black america from it’s inception. Hoover secured much of his glory and funding when he destroyed Marcus Garvey’s UNIA. The UNIA’s program was basically economic empowerment and self-reliance. As apple pie as any American values ? No. The latest incarnation of this war was the cointelpro programs that decapitated most of the effective black organizations in america. What we were left with are the sellouts, informants and snitches like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Obama is only the latest incarnation. On Cointelpro :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlKP5fgY4C0
Orders to kill MLK assassination by Peppers. http://www.amazon.com/Orders-Kill-Behind-Murder-Martin/dp/0446673943
– Historically everytime we built self relying and prosperous economic communities they were destroyed by white mobs and the local authorities. Hence, the current apathy and over reliance on the federal government from some segment of african-american polity. Many african-americans intrinsically fear that should they build prosperous self governing economic entities they would again be destroyed by white supremacist authorities. We can now hear them clamoring for states right only when it suits them. I have yet to see the reactionaries protest against the militarization of PD’s across black america… What do they have in mind ? We vividly remember that the first use of airplanes to bomb civilians on american soil was against Tulsa’s black wall street a thriving economic community. For more on the destruction of our communities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It7dFz5fRus . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAwxWgBhIYA Much of the ills that affect african americans as a group are purposedly engineered. I will not delve into eugenics and medical apartheid, etc. Every racially constructed oligarchy needs a permanent underclass they can continue to exploit freely. It seems much of the country agrees with this modus vivendi…
Mohamed,
Thank you very much. ;~) As far as names are concerned, I’m content calling people whatever they wish to be called — it’s no big deal to me but if it matters to them in some way, why not? Mostly though I think it’s just manners to try not to refer to people with words deliberately used, past or present, to demean them. But yeah, in my mind we’re all Americans, just of varying extractions. Otoh, a member of a persecuted minority most likely hasn’t experienced being an American in quite the same way I have, and I try to respect them by respecting their feelings on the subject. Again, it doesn’t take much, really — so why not? It’s kind of the Golden Rule, isn’t it?
And thank you even more for explaining what is supposed to be the American system of justice to certain folks who prefer vigilante justice and are trying their best to rationalize their deep-seated needs to defend it.
Joseph Moroco,
Please re-read what I wrote and then re-check your dictionary bc your big word there doesn’t fit what I said but does seem to describe your words quite well.
Saker,
Please, no. Don’t even give them a platform to spit on. Let them be sick on their own time, not ours! Who needs it?
Writer,
Saker was being a gentleman bc he’s seen and had to delete some of the truly nasty stuff aimed my way by the usual suspects. I wish he hadn’t, actually: I’d much rather have the pleasure of dispatching those cretins myself. ;~)
Ol Ez, Joseph Moroco, et. al.,
I deeply believe in the careful examination of evidence and equal treatment under the law: to the extent that I have any biases here, that would be it. Otoh, I quite dryly presented the evidence in the case that has been agreed upon by all witnesses, including the fact that Darren Wilson *did not know* of either the robbery (which had just been committed) or the videotape at the time he killed Michael Brown. That is an exceedingly important piece of evidence, and no after-the-fact expostulating can mitigate it.
I personally think there may in fact have been some kind of altercation — but neither you nor I nor anyone else except Wilson, a putative defendant, knows for sure what happened. Remember, the presence of gunshot residue — i.e., proof that someone shot someone at close-range — has not been established, so all you’re doing is presenting conjecture as fact. It ain’t.
More to the point, witnesses agree the kid was out of the car and moving away when he was first shot at (lousy shooting, btw; shouldn’t have taken that much to bring him down). But the point is, Wilson could have called for help, and the kid could be easily identified if he tried to escape. Instead, Wilson — *who was clearly in absolutely no danger whatever at the point* — emptied his gun into him. You can’t rationalize that; it doesn’t work.
If in fact Michael Brown was the kid on that video — which under our system is still something that needs to be determined in a court of law — he could and should have been brought up on charges, *not* murdered.
Unless, of course, you agree that each and every defendent in this country brought up on robbery or even assault charges should be murdered by the police before being brought to trial.
I came across the Vineyard of the Saker quite by accident.. But, I do wish to compliment the author(s). Rarely do I come across such well-reasoned argumentation, generally clear writing, and attention to detail…and facts… with the added bonus of some genuine humility thrown in.
Please keep up the good work. Know that you are appreciated..dr.rw. forensic neuropsychologist, retired.
Here’s a shocking story about how one troll operates – no doubt a tactic the Saker has to deal with every day…
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2014/08/30/the-double-identity-of-an-anti-semitic-commenter/
(that’s where i saw it, but it was originally posted here: http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs)
Given that the germ of the Internet was a dept of defense creation originally and that the govt, I suspect, unleashed it on purpose so we would self-register our most intimate details on sites like facebook, I have often wondered how they planned to control the potential for a game-changing awakening, an Internet Reformation so to speak, then I realized how hard it is to find the truth in the overload of disinfo on the Internet, so maybe it will be easy for them to win this war after all. This article demonstrates perhaps their main tactic.
saker I’m scandalized. until now I’ve trusted your site for reasoned accurate information and then you post Nora’s thinly veiled racist view of ferguson and then warn us not be harsh with her. its your site. do as you wish but do it without me.
This is to augment what Old Ez at 20:46 had to say.
Anyone honestly trying to wrap their head around any complex event or situation almost always finds that their preconceived notions do not accurately represent the whole truth. It doesn’t seem to matter what one’s initial beliefs are. This suggests that persistence in seeking additional information and alternate views is critically important.
With the foregoing in mind, many here may find the writings of Fred Reed to be interesting. Fred is a U.S. expat, who apparently was (among other things) a police reporter. His latest post speaks to the subject of this thread, and can be found at:
http://www.fredoneverything.net/CopNotes.shtml
Don’t expect any degree of political correctness from Fred. This may offend some; it may intrigue others. Some may even find it interesting to read some of his earlier blog posts (if they have not already been doing so). In this latter regard his blog is somewhat like the Saker’s.
Nora,
adjective
1.
having or showing a definite tendency, bias, or purpose
Not inaccurate.
Mohammed,
“What happened to young man’s right “Innocent until proven guilty”. He was guilty of robbing a convenience store and intimidating the clerk. Therefore, he got “Capital Punishment”.”
So you are convicting the cop before he gets his day in court.
Nora,
“Unless, of course, you agree that each and every defendent in this country brought up on robbery or even assault charges should be murdered by the police before being brought to trial. “
You also convict the police officer before the trial.
Panafrican Lion ,
“Slavery was still practiced in the united states as late as the 20th century.”
That was a disgrace. Slavery, however, is still practiced in Africa. Are you as incensed about a contemporary practice as a past one?
Nora,
adjective
1.
having or showing a definite tendency, bias, or purpose
Not inaccurate.
Mohammed,
“What happened to young man’s right “Innocent until proven guilty”. He was guilty of robbing a convenience store and intimidating the clerk. Therefore, he got “Capital Punishment”.”
So you are convicting the cop before he gets his day in court.
Nora,
“Unless, of course, you agree that each and every defendent in this country brought up on robbery or even assault charges should be murdered by the police before being brought to trial. “
You also convict the police officer before the trial.
Panafrican Lion ,
“Slavery was still practiced in the united states as late as the 20th century.”
That was a disgrace. Slavery, however, is still practiced in Africa. Are you as incensed about a contemporary practice as a past one?
@Nora:
Part 1:
“Darren Wilson *did not know* of either the robbery (which had just been committed) or the videotape at the time he killed Michael Brown. That is an exceedingly important piece of evidence, and no after-the-fact expostulating can mitigate it.” -Nora, you clearly do not even comprehend why the robbery is important. It is important not because of anything to do with officer Wilson, but with Brown himself. the fact that he just committed a violent robbery makes it more likely that he would be inclined to be aggressive with law enforcement, given the fact the he had just committed a crime.
Second, the story of Brown’s friend just doesn’t make logical sense. He says that Officer Wilson’s door was opened aggressively and then ricocheted off of Brown’s body, and yet somehow Wilson was supposedly able to grab Brown’s neck. How? If the door was between them, how could Wilson grab Brown’s neck? He couldn’t. The only way he could get a hold of Brown is if Brown was on the inside part of the officer’s door. That proves that Brown was the principal aggressor, not Wilson.
Nora, you do not present any evidence in the form of logical reason (such as presented above) whatsoever in your post. All you rely upon is the uncritical acceptance of eyewitnesses, and a single class of eyewitnesses at that – those who are sympathetic to Brown no matter what, like his accomplice in the robbery. But I showed above that even his accomplices testimony convicts him! But anyway, about eyewitnesses, any competent attorney will tell you that eyewitness testimony is the least reliable kind of evidence. So in the absence or contradiction of a logical chain of reasoning, eyewitness statements are discountable and in some cases downright discreditable.
The only other kind of appeal you rely upon, Nora, is the cheap rehtoric pure emotionalism that has nothing to do with the facts of the situation, such as dogs urination on flowers and the body being left in the street for 4 hours (if it had been moved, you would be complaining about that too; either that the police were working on a cover-up or they were being disrespectful, or whatever other rationalization was conveniently at hand to justify your preconceived, and therefore prejudiced and biased, view of these events.)
“More to the point, witnesses agree the kid was out of the car and moving away when he was first shot at (lousy shooting, btw; shouldn’t have taken that much to bring him down)” – Regarding witnesses see my comment above. Second, the fact that there were several shots taken could very well mean that Officer Wilson first shot to wound and only when Brown refused to relent did Wilson take the step of shooting him in the head. The pause in the shots on the supposed recording also is consistent with this theory which exculpates Officer Wilson.
“Wilson could have called for help, and the kid could be easily identified if he tried to escape.” – this is archetypal deluded neo-leftism. “People should submit to injury or possible death rather than defend themselves.” “It is better to be killed than to defend oneself.” These beliefs cosmically misanthropic. They invert the moral order in that they place the sinner above the innocent.
@Nora
Part 2:
“Instead, Wilson — *who was clearly in absolutely no danger whatever at the point* — emptied his gun into him.” – No, Nora, that is your own prejudice talking. As you yourself admitted earlier in this very same post (!) “but neither you nor I nor anyone else except Wilson, a putative defendant, knows for sure what happened.” If that is true, how do you know he didn’t feel like he was in danger? Brown was 6’4″ and weighed 295 lbs and already purportedly tried to steal Wilson’s gun once! What was Wilson supposed to do? Allow himself to be disarmed and killed all because he had the misfortune to trying to do his job and give a lawful command to a pedestrian to step out of the street, a pedestrian who happened to be a criminal prone to violence – whether Wilson knew that or not?
“If in fact Michael Brown was the kid on that video — which under our system is still something that needs to be determined in a court of law — he could and should have been brought up on charges, *not* murdered.” – As you yourself said, Nora, Officer Wilson had no idea that Brown was involved in a robbery, therefore this argument of yours makes no logical sense. Wilson did not feel threatened because of the robbery (obviously, and logically) but because of the way Brown behaved, namely (and allegedly), by shoving officer Wilson into his car and attempting to take his gun.
“Unless, of course, you agree that each and every defendent in this country brought up on robbery or even assault charges should be murdered by the police before being brought to trial. ” – No, not robbery, but looting and rioting, yes. In a situation where people are looting and rioting, police should be empowered to shoot on site all who do not surrender immediately. As I said before – and as you totally ignored, as you ignore all of our actual arguments – riots and looting are one of the very few legitimate reasons to deploy a martial police force.
To the Saker: I truly am disappointed. On virtually every other issue you evince a sterling quality that is willing to call out logical fallacies and rhetorical emotionalism for the argumentative nullities that they are, except, it seems, in this case. Nora’s post is rife with logical absurdities and yet it appears on this most serious and consequential blog (IMHO) with what appears to be an actual endorsement. Nora’s position represents the exact opposite of the pragmatic, non-ideological realism that the Vineyard of the Saker has come to represent. Instead, Nora’s analysis is based entirely on preconceived racialist ideologies that impute an intrinsic guilt to white people for something like slavery, which less 1% of our ancestors were responsible for and which is an institution that has been, and still is in some cases, practiced by ALL peoples all over the world at one time or another. As soon as I hear somebody make slavery a historical white/black issue, I immediately know I am dealing with ideology, not history.
@EVERYBODY:
Okay, exactly as predicted, Nora’s article is making some of you really mad. I expected no less. Where I am disappointed by is that only Old Ez wrote a clear and well-written rebuttal. The kind of reaction Flea Baggs just had is absolutely ridiculous. Nora is either right, or wrong, or a mix of both. But just to scream in protest to high heaven without proving even a modicum of an argument (including for the ugly accusation of racism) is just illiterate, infantile and plain stupid.
@Flea Baggs: if anything, you might want to apologize for that ridiculous outburst.
@EVERYBODY: If anybody ones to follow Old Ez’s example and provide an intelligent opposing viewpoint – great! If it is solid enough, I will even *GLADLY* post it as a full separate post of a “guest contributor”. But please spare us all the kind of self-righteous hysterics a la Flea Baggs, okay?
Cheers,
The Saker
Great summary, well laid out. I would add Blackagendareport.com and Daveyd.com as indispensable sites for black commentary and realities. And it is important to mention that Brown could not possibly have robbed the store in question and then made it on foot in time to the place where he was shot. The community organizer who pointed this out was hunted by Ferguson police: http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/08/23/we-finally-got-one-of-those-animals-community-organizer-in-ferguson-recounts-arrest/
Keep up the good work. From Ukraine to Ferguson and everywhere in between, the words of Talib Kweli ring true: “If one of us ain’t free then we’re all to blame”
The shot that went off in the car was during the STRUGGLE for the gun. Michael Brown and the police officer were fighting.
This article is quiet on Michael Brown and his sidekick involved in a strong-armed robbery at a local liquor store.
He stole a pack of cigars – the kind that are dug out and replaced with marijuana.
He did test positive for dope – and the full toxicology tests haven’t come back yet.
The shot in the car will have left a bullet-path evidence and we need to see that.
Also with regards to the bullet wounds – some were re-entries of the same bullet.
If Michael Brown’s arms were in the RUNNING POSITION – which means the arms are bent 90 degrees or more at the elbow – that would explain some of the forearm and bicep wounds – and also a bullet through that part could have (and probably did get his far right chest).
All the shots were to his front – there was no wounds on his back nor backside AT ALL.
There is an audio witness heard on youtube from a video at the scene. He is describing how Michael Brown ended up where he was. This witness described Michael Brown turning around and COMING BACK at the cop in a full run.
Michael Brown played football and was 6’4″ tall and almost 300 pounds. He was the size of a football linebacker and he had a lot of muscle – not just fat.
The fatal shot was the one to his right eye which ricocheted down out his right jaw and then into his right collarbone area.
A single bullet made re-entries and often repeatedly according to the expert who did the autopsy – the one hired by his family I believe.
Michael Brown’s juvenile record is sealed but people say it was “a mile long”. There is a lawsuit for those records – we will see.
Michael Brown was likely so stoned that he used poor judgement in the situation.
He also required SPECIAL TUTORING to catch up and graduate on time. His mother even spoke of how hard it was to get him to stay in school – he liked to sleep in and skip classes.
His school is the WORST performing school in Missouri.
He also made rap music which you can hear on SoundCloud – and it is RACIST towards whites and speaks of killing people and smoking dope.
Dont kid yourself that its just race discrimination. That is only a part of the issue. It is more a cultural discrimination where the weak or looking weak is discriminated at. That also goes to how big you are and how you look at the world and how you behave. Hence you are considered the norm if you are strong and abusive. Women look at it like its a good trait. Look at the number of shows where total arseholes live entirely happy lives where they think the world of the man. They might joke about it to make it seem like its not real but in truth that is how people behave and it is also why the cops behave that way since they have to be more macho than everyone else. Showing weakness is frowned upon and see how fast you lose friends and support. Also in many cases it is not considered wrong to take advantage of a situation.. It fact it is considered capitalism. Which is why it takes a lot of effort to get justice. eg.. banks and collection agencies selling off old peoples assets to pay off fines etc.. In many parts of the world people would protest strongly at such behavior.
Joseph Moroco,
You may not like the facts I presented but they are nonetheless facts. So yes, inaccurate for me but still fits you. Your bias is showing — not mine.
It is a fact that Wilson shot Brown. Stating it as a fact is not convicting him — how on earth can I convict him? That’s really a rather desperately silly and, yes, tendentious argument to make.
Do you understand the rules of evidence, or anything else about how our admittedly imperfect system of justice is supposed to work? You sure show no sign of it.
Ol Ez,
Your hypothesizing about Michael Brown’s state of mind not only makes no psychological sense whatever (in fact, both psychologically and physiologically, the reverse is more likely to be true) but would be inadmissiable in a court of law since you clearly don’t qualify as an expert witness. Your concepts of Brown’s friend’s statement are likewise irrelevant, not even hearsay. We can all hypothesize up one side and down the other, but read my lips: We. Don’t. Know. You want to believe it, that’s fine. But that’s all it is, just your personal belief. What really happened may or may not come out in court, but your attempts to come up with the conclusion you want are based more on your needs and emotions than the few indisputed facts agreed upon by all witnesses thus far.
Let me try this again: I clearly stated evidence on which all parties agree, and presented the relevant areas of dispute as such. I did not hypothesize anything; you’re doing that, not me. What you are characterizing as “cheap rehtoric (sic) pure emotionalism” and my “preconceived and therefore prejudiced biased, view” may be facts you don’t like bc they don’t lead to the conclusions you want, but those events are clearly related to what happened next and therefore belong in the narrative whether you like them or not.
Your hypotheses on Wilson’s state of mind are, again, your hypotheses. Which you are of course free to make if you wish, but my interest, again, has been facts/data/evidence, not conjecture. And Wilson calling for help knowing Brown would be easy to I.D. is hardly “cosmically misanthropic” “inverting the moral order” or “deluded neo-leftism”. In fact, it is Standard Operating Procedure.
Do you really want me to go on? The degree of danger Wilson was in can be accurately gauged by the *lack* of a gun found on Brown, since Wilson was in the car at the time and Brown was moving away from him. There, that didn’t take much, did it. Even at 6’4″ and 295 lb., Brown wasn’t going to do much going in the other direction, fergawdsakes!
I do not understand your point in the second paragraph of your Part 2 but you yourself term the purported shoving “alleged”. Ergo, not substantiated, ergo I didn’t bother. I’m really not going to defend evidentiary rules any more; you either choose to accept them or continue with your need-based conjecture.
Again, you may not like the facts I presented; you’re certainly free not to. But your last paragraph, frankly, is tendentious. I’m hardly insulted though: given your reasoning and beliefs, I consider it high praise.
Also, who is this “our” you talk about?
@Anon 23:59
In other words, he was your typical American teen. This is classic, pouring through of juvenile records, if not those, then school records, to make the child sufficiently mean enough to justify him being singled out and killed. Which, I believe, is the point Nora is making. Which is that there was no reason for the officer to have had any confrontation with the young man, seeing as how he was not even aware of there having been what amount to an amped up shoplifting.
Here is an excerpt from another great writer on race relations and social commentary, as he explains how blacks are portrayed:
“The killing of an unarmed black teen named Michael Brown by the incompetent white police officer named Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Missouri is one more example of how the news media defaults to a habit where black people need to be saints and angels in order to receive a modicum of its empathy and sympathy. The news media’s desire to niggerize Michael Brown is greater than the obligation to locate his life within a broader context. This is a function of old fashioned racism, implicit bias, and a deep American cultural belief that black people are inherently pathological and dysfunctional.
America’s news rooms are predominantly white, the media is dominated by white men, and the American “public” as imagined by the corporate media elite is “naturally” white. Consequently, the white racial frame operates at every level of the corporate media to naturalize whiteness as good and normal while blackness is made into something grotesque, bad, maladaptive, and deviant.
The depiction of black criminality as salacious and common is also circulated and legitimated by a massive prison industrial entertainment complex that includes TV shows such as Cops, The First 48, Orange is the New Black, Lockup, etc.
On Monday, The New York Times slurred Michael Brown’s memory by defaulting to a narrative of black criminality and bad behavior in this much-discussed piece. The Times then issued a piss poor weak sauce raggedy explanation for their observation that Michael Brown “was no angel”. The editors of the Times should be embarrassed by their rebuttal: it is a pathetic lie, one that the liar himself would not even believe.
Writing at The Atlantic, Ta-Nehisi Coates has returned from his walkabout and self-imposed contemplative exile and retreat to write about the murder of Michael Brown by the cowardly killer cop named Darren Wilson.”
http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2014/08/the-new-york-times-niggerizes-michael.html#more
Some of what Nora says is true. I do know my father told me the small town in Indiana he grew up in had a sign that said, “Nigger, don’t let the sun go down on you here.” It was a very WASP area. If there had been any Catholics around, they likely would have seen a similar sign.
There was a time I would have been 100% on the police side in Fergeson, but I got stopped by a cop as I was following an ambulance with my son in it to the ER, and his reaction to my traffic infractions was borderline curaaazeee. I thought for certain I’d be in the clear as soon as I could explain, but, no…it was a real “wake up” call for me; I’m glad I wasn’t hurt. I do forgive the officer–his is a tough job as our culture is getting “meaner.” What most annoys me is that the “higher authorities” in the USA very publicly have had to come in and “handle” what should have been handled honorably on a completely local basis with no intervention from the federal powers that be. It speaks to a frightening development in the USA and an on-going unraveling of the experiment of self-government that, for a while, at least, led to a strong people and a strong economy. The weakest part of Nora’s article, in my mind, is that she failed to address the on-going genocide of blacks in mostly white-“provided” abortions. So many black babies have died in abortions, it has to have made members of the KKK, as well as any number of eugenicists, giggle with glee. Also, Nora totally gave a “pass” to rioters and to members of black society who seem to take a kind of pride in being dumb, not taking advantage of the availability of knowledge (tell me none of these people have access to a computer–you can learn ANYTHING off the internet today–too much–in fact). The days of the “knowledge gatekeepers” are long gone, so, while, yes, there are still instances of discrimination in the USA on some levels, there is also, thanks to the EEOC regs and the given-over-to-political-correctness crowd, great OPPORTUNITY for any person of color who can scrawl out a coherent letter or number with a pencil and add two and two and come up with four. There are plenty of poor white and black folks in this country reaping the fruits of their own laziness and stupidity, but I digress. Suffice it to say, Ms. Nora’s article is a bit simplistic and one-sided, and obviously left-leaning. With those tendencies, although she touches on a truth or two, she leaves out an awful lot of reality, so her article isn’t all that helpful in achieving revelation of underlying societal evils and getting to true understanding and achievable solutions. What is going on here and in the Ukraine and in Europe and all over the world is a deep philosophical and spiritual struggle on how humanity relates to each other and, ultimately, to God. Those are the aspects we all need to be paying closer attention to, especially those of us who call ourselves Christian. Even the Catholic Church is splintered as far as the concept of Christianity gets applied (pro-abortion Catholics, for example…on the liberal side, pro-capital punishment ones; okay, so, what IS the Christian way?) The Protestants are so splintered it’s impossible to find a “right” or “wrong” to hang one’s hat on; they’re far too given over to relativism and self-salvation through independent biblical interpretation. Pagans are too busy getting high on recently legalized weed. Secular Muslims seem to just want to get along, but are afraid the radicals will kill them if they speak out; and the radical Muslims just seem to want to rape and cut Christian babies heads off (like abortionists, only later “term”). Evil’s evil and good’s good–but tell me now, what’s the difference, and how does one find out?
Anonymous 23:59
Sources, please. Legitimate sources, not “he says, she says.” I’m really not going to comment without them.
Once again, facts/data/evidence are very different than opinion, allegation, conjecture or hypothesis. I will happily discuss any verified facts in this case, but am not the least bit interested in trying to “figure out” or “reason through” what happened. My actual interest in the case, beyond pinning down what is actually known to have happened, is what was made of it in the media and the minds of the public.
So hypothesize away if you want to; just label it as such and don’t pretend you have all the answers. No one does yet.
One last point: Saker may not have lived here long enough to recognize all the racist dog-whistles. But everyone else does. And they’re every bit as pathetic and disgusting as they ever were, but those of you who make them aren’t worth the bother of being called out on them. So drool away; just realize that you and your ilk are neither as slick, or as convincing, as you need to believe.
Yes, I agree, there is still racial discrimination in USA. But…there is also reverse discrimination. I experienced this at my work. I am white and worked in a predominantly black environment. It was rough, I can tell you. It hurt me. Because prior to this experience I was adamantly convinced that the only reason blacks resent whites is because of the discrimination they endured. I used to wonder why they demonstrated so much hatred towards me, when actually I had never in my life practiced any form of discrimination towards anyone of any ethnicity.
This is in the past [retired many years now] and I do not harbor hatred towards other races. I believe each person must be given respect regardless of their ethnicity. Were I to harbor hatred towards blacks, I would be making the same mistake.
As a matter of fact, I liken reverse discrimination to the Ukies bearing a grudge against Russia for the harm the old USSR inflicted upon them.
So anyway, in this particular situation I’m with Old Ez.
He brings up some very valid points. Logically. Without overemotionalizing Is that a word?
That said we need to hold off until forensics on the car for a bullet, and forensics to determine if it is possible that Michael was in fact in a running position towards the police officer when he was shot.
I want to say that it just might be possible that the officer heard a call over his radio about the robbery and was given a description of Brown. Don’t know. Just saying….
I have read one article which states that many of the looters who were arrested were not even from Ferguson! And we all know that Al Sharpton jumped into the fray right away. So there are many taking advantage of the situation.
Thank you very much Saker and Nora, and Old Ez for addressing this issue. We all need to discuss it.
Christine
I’m so proud of you Nora.
Way to go!
:D
Nora in my opinion flunked the test in her objectivity on describing the old issue of black and white relationship. I have lived for 47 years some 100 km from city of Detroit in Canada and visited Detroit during that time numerous times. The bankruptcy of Detroit was long coming and finally reached its apex early this year with conviction of its mayor Kwami Kilpatrick. Detroit represents all what is wrong with black Americans and I’m sure there will be many educated independent people who will write the in-depth study of the real reasons of Detroit downfall. The city was run by several black mayors since early seventies and situation was getting progressively worse. No discrimination from whites because most and towards the end all the key positions in city government were in the hands of blacks.
re: ugly indian races
This is not racist but a gender based bias.. He was most likely dumped and rejected by an american woman of indian origin. Who has very special preferences. Yea american woman of indian origins dont like men of indian origin. But whites or blacks they prefer have to be of a specific type. All the indian women you see with indian men were not coupled in america. The jewish thing in there is only a bias based on being hurt. This kind of bias is far more dangerous than being a racist. Also racists dont come back too often because they have superior things to do like talk about their superior achievements or lack off due to others, to others of the superior race at their superior bars..
I usually only read this blog too, but as a Southerner, all I can say is that the authors background on race relations going back to the 19th century is way too simple. Race relations in America are more complex than she wants to believe, and for the most part, they’ve been mishandled going back to the Civil War. It would take too much to go into details so I won’t.
@Saker
Re: “hateful jerk of the day” or “hateful jerk of the week”
I would avoid doing so just because I think it would turn into a competition about who can say the vilest thing.
You already have enough on your plate and these things do tend to weigh us down when we willingly immerse ourselves in them. There is also the matter of not manifesting things which are destructive. I aready know the world is full of frightened and ignorant people. Why give any of them a platform?
I’d like to say a word or two about the response to my post. I think there were some really good, reflective comments showing real thought, and of course the predictable dog-whistles and silly name-calling that I suppose helps the usual suspects felt better about themselves even while they expose themselves royally.
(Newsflash for them what needs it: the difference between “entitled” “racist” blacks and Moskali potato beetles is approximately zero. Think about that for a minute, please.)
My hope in assembling some relevant background information and then briefly recounting the facts of the case on which both sides are in agreement was to spur an intelligent discussion on what the whole thing says about us. I had then and continue to have exactly zero interest in wasting anyone’s time on pointless conjecture trying desperately to prove the kid had it coming.
In fact, since the thread’s probably just about done, I will finally state my opinion, which is that had the police not ruined the memorial, it would never even have made the news; just another black kid shot, that’s all — and right or wrong, there’s nothing remarkable about that. But this thing shocked the world and instead of looking at that and figuring out how it could have been handled short of aping the IDF in Gaza, once again, we’ve got the Armchair Warriors, 101st Keyboard Division, going to battle for their Just Cause.
Can we maybe talk about what really matters? The reality of unequal treatment before the law is apparently too much for some folks to handle. OK, fine. But how about our over-militarized, Mossad-trained police? Yes, people here talk about this stuff in theory, but it’s not just hypothetical, it’s real. And it’s happening to whites too. Doesn’t anyone care? People everywhere else on the planet were appropriately horrified but even here, most of the people even talking about it thought shooting to kill was just plain fine. That’s not the country I grew up in, and not the one I want my grandchildren to either. And if we don’t even view it as a problem, how the hell are we going to stop it? (Oh, that’s right — we just plain can’t, we’re soooooo helpless. And besides, this kid was big and black and scary and awful and everyone there clearly deserved it and it would never happen to anyone I know…) Yeah, right. Wanna bet?
So I’m asking again, can we at least have a semi-intelligent discussion on these issues, bc I’m really quite bored with batting down comments establishing for posterity that the commenter hasn’t a clue about the difference between fact and their desperate, need-based opinion.
Nora, this was an excellent summary and there is not much there I would disagree with. No matter the critique of OldOZ, the way you led up to the Ferguson incident, the pent-up rage in the black community, as it is relegated to the margins of society, are all critical elements in the whys and the hows this blew up.
Michael Brown himself may not be the poster boy for righteous innocence but that’s hardly the point. neither was Rodney King. Trayvor martin may also not have been fully angelic. Nonetheless, these are the cases that galvanized an entire community and echoed throughout the land.
I think the part people who may critique your take are missing is the significance of the context. Brown was one killing too many, that’s all. And this fellow had a committed family, obviously which is partly what made the difference. The indictment contained within the ferguson outburst is not of this one cop, who may or may not have been a good one. It is of the police machinery brought down to bear upon people who are already confined to a ghetto, already at the bootom 30% of wage earners, already the biggest losers of the 2008 financial housing debacle. People hanging on the the first rung of the ladder with boots pressing upon them so the climb up is that much harder, are not happy puppies.
What I am reminded of, more than anything. is the New orleans katherina aftermath. It was not the Hurricane and not the cops, and not even the indifference of the affluent Washingtonians. It was that this one hurricane exposed the ugly underbelly of America’s extremely inequitable economic and political system. Like Ferguson, katherina pulled aside the veil for one moment in time, and suddenly there it was – the losing end of the capitalist/neoliberal system. That’s what was shocking more than any one incident or victim – it’s how many of those victims there are. The fact that they are black only makes it worse.
To me Ferguson is about the not-so-hidden threat of class warfare bursting to the surface. naturally many will recoil and blame the underclass. But just as many others simply watch, passively, riveted with anxiety for what’s to come. Some of us wish we could do more but it’s hardly clear what can be done. You wrote a great summary and The Saker published it. That’s a lot already. Thanks.
Black Americans are more American than about anyone, you really don’t know what you are talking about. And Americans from any political perspective would overwhelmingly agree. Your viewpoint isn’t politically incorrect, it’s just non viable.
Black Americans have been here longer than most, American culture has been transformed by their influence. Look at popular music styles for one instance; rock and country are two ‘white’ genres that are heavily influenced by the blues. There is no American popular music without blacks, which is now worldwide.
You may live in the US, but you really don’t get it. It’s like an American born trying to understand Russia after living in Russia a few years. You should respect that as you would expect us to respect your culture.
As for Ferguson, people are tired of thug cops, especially people who deal with them a lot in their communities.
Ban away when someone disagrees with you.
There is much information available pointing to this being a wholly fabricated event. The aim is the same, to foment racial tension, which in my opinion will fall flat on its face. Just as no one really has it in their heart no matter how disturbed to shoot up a school full of small children, a mall, or whatever, few people have it in their heart to harbor any more than a festering resentment, they will not act on it in the way the game-theory planners are hoping/expecting they will.
First of all, tapes reveal that dispatch found out about this shooting from the news, not from the officer involved (who is in hiding on suspension), and not from 911 calls of eyewitnesses.
youtu.be/Y-HkNxxLvSA?t=11m12s
The store owners did not call 911 about the robbery (cigar theft)
dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft
Nor do they believe Michael Brown was the individual who stole the cigars
countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doesnt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/
The incident reports released for the shooting and crime scene are both blank, and the blank reports were only released when the ACLU filed suit.
aclu.org/aclu-response-ferguson
Finally, if this video is legit I think it blows this whole thing out of the water. I can’t really vouch for this because some of this guys videos are clearly mistaken, but this video makes a pretty compelling case, especially in light of the completely fabricated from whole cloth nature of so many of these other incidents.
Brown, Jr., Michael Passed away suddenly 28 July 2014
youtu.be/VWwkEbYIl_0
Great job, Nora!
It’s sad that so many people on this blog can’t get over their racial biases.
First, I like to say that not all the facts about the Ferguson case was presented. Michael Brown was filmed on CCTV of robbing the QT station, choking the owner. He’s an 18 year old, but he’s talk and big. He also had marijuana in his system. All these are facts that cannot be denied and they were not presented.
Also for the relationships between blacks and whites, I definitely disagree with her opinions and her interpretations of different historical events. For one thing, the Second amendment is not about slavery, it is about each State having the ability to form a militia that can protect it and defend it against the federal government. State rights has nothing to do with slavery. The original constitution already made a compromise on slavery, the 2nd amendment is not for that.
Where-Wolf,
Thank you! ;~)
Anonymous 02:04,
I wasn’t born there but I lived in the South for many years and know it pretty well. Describing race relations there at any given point in time would take far more words than Saker’s blog host could possibly provide, and not all of them would be critical, by any means. What I did delineate were simply documented phenomena that served as obstacles for blacks, and certainly not merely in the South (redlining helped ruin Detroit and had one hell of an effect in Chicago, for example) but all over the country. And again, it’s not a matter of what “she wants to believe”: I don’t want to believe it at all, actually, but everything I enumerated is a matter of well-documented fact. Ugly, unpleasant but nevertheless well-documented fact. For which, I might add, the North deserves every bit as much blame as the South.
I am for self determination, which is essential, both for the black community here in my country the USA as well as for those in others places, including Novorussiya.
I also understand the nature of so-called justice and democracy in my country, which is neither just nor democratic, serving only the entrenched interests and the rich.
But in the case of Ferguson, let us consider that none of us yet know the facts.
If indeed the lawman was physically assaulted, and was then rushed by the now deceased, he was perfectly justified in shooting his assailant.
That is the right of self-defense, as righteous as it would be in that instance as it is righteous everywhere and at all times.
At that instant it would matter little that the officer served an unjust regime, no more than it mattered if shortly before the shooting the assailant shoved a store clerk.
At that point it was simply necessity at work.
Also, we cannot ignore the hypocrisy of tribal thinking, the silly notion that only the other side can do wrong. As Alexander Solzhenitsyn as so accurately pointed out, the line between good and evil passes through each one of us, regardless of political affiliation or, in this case, race.
Never forget, if workers are divided by race, we can never defeat our common enemy, the capitalist system of exploitation.
“Divide and Conquer”, that is the preferred method of control used by the oppressors.
I’m sorry, but this piece was so contrived that I stopped reading. I have no problem agreeing that the militarization of the police and racism are both very real problems, however, and perhaps a narrow focus would serve better.
I will say that the Ferguson case is a strange one to rally on these issues with. Michael Brown is hardly the poster child to represent victims of police brutality/overreach. ThereARE truly innocent victims; much more so than M. Brown.
Frankly, to tie this case to a blog devoted to a truly noble cause can only devalue the credibility this page well deserves. This truly saddens me and I would hope that we could continue the focus on the brave people of Novorossia and not muddy the water with the Ferguson issue.
Anonymous 02:28,
Thank you.
And no, it’s not clear what can be done. But it just seems to me that the first step always is to face stuff unflinchingly — bc how are you going to even start figuring out how to solve a problem if you keep looking away and making up ever more reasons to avoid seeing it clearly? You have to define the parameters of a problem before solving it and we’ve got so many people, both in this country and on this blog, who are Just. Plain. Terrified. to do that. Because acknowledging that we’ve done stuff that is wrong here is somehow worse than doing stuff that is wrong in Ukraine? It’s the same stuff, dammit! And really, how are you ever going to learn anything if you can’t admit you’ve made a mistake? And yes, we’ve made more than a few — that’s precisely why we’ve got the mess that we do.
And turning into a pretzel while desperately trying not to face this, making an utter fool of yourself saying ever more silly stuff while trying to keep on blaming the victim, or even just calling me seriously stupid, laughable names because of a pathetic need to kill the messenger and Just. Not. Hear. The. Truth, all serve as an excellent demonstration to any non-Americans here of precisely how racism cripples what might otherwise have been a decent-enough mind.
I’m with you woogs….nothing against Nora but the story is always the same…not so innocent black guy against a racist white society. In other words, divide and conquer.
Astounding ignorance abounds still. I saw several mention the looters above–they were not Ferguson residents, and were not unlikely to have been police provocateurs, in reality.
As for the “jerk of the week”–yeah! Might as well call them out on it. :)
I, together with other members of my irc channel on freenode watched the livestreamers all week, and we were all impressed with the articulate and impassioned pleas of the protesters and horrified by some of the stories we heard from residents of ongoing, endless abuse from police. Many of the people interviewed were simply working people–the police were blocking their way home from work, from picking up children from babysitters, etc. Many were waylaid by police on the way to work, jeopardizing their jobs. No one should have to live like prisoners. I’m appalled at people like “Old Ez” who are so clueless at the reality people there endure on a daily, ongoing basis.
“Walking while black” is an offense leading to execution in this country, and it’s obscene.
leftists = brain damaged.
Fantastic article Nora.
I was wondering if I could add a couple of really informative sources…
A book for those who love reading is by Howard Zinn “A People’s History of the United States…
Howard Zinn is actually a Jew, but grew up in the States and his book has been used by schools in America because of the extensive research and compassion in it. It covers Native America history and Black history too…also the White labor stuggles.
And for those who prefer a youtube : “Make your Life a Friction to Stop the Machine”. This has many photos of US past history and is quite compelling in its imagery and vocal presentation. Its narrated by a very English gentleman, which is refreshing, all things considered.
Here is the link for the video… don’t be put off by the images in the first minute…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Xh5eN2fXY&feature=player_detailpage
Hi Saker
Yeah that would be a good idea…
What blows me away is that they can actually read the stuff on these comments and that that’s where they actually like to be…on your blog….maybe their Guardian Angel guides them here…poor angel…
Nora, I’ve read to the bottom of the thread now, and I agree with what you said near the end..
Its the police that we have to worry about, not the black kids…
I thought your article was interesting….well-written with many sources for skeptics, and sensible.
Your defenses have been excellent…I was feeling for you until I read your first defense…then I was just interested….
Quenelles to those others.
Nora, in your comment at 02:25 you said:
“Can we maybe talk about what really matters? …
Yes, people here talk about this stuff in theory, but it’s not just hypothetical, it’s real. …
So I’m asking again, can we at least have a semi-intelligent discussion on these issues…”
Maybe we can, maybe we can’t.
The topic you have introduced has two broad categories:
1) The specific facts regarding the recent events in Ferguson
2) Everything else that has anything to do with the subject
It is important to not conflate these.
As I see it, and as has been mentioned by you and by others, we do not know all the specific facts. Besides, any popular consensus regarding “facts” is typically flawed. (In principle, that is why jurors that know nothing about a case are preferred.) Furthermore, at this point, and as a result of our discussions, we here are not likely to discover any additional facts. Therefore, I conclude that your appeal now is not for a discussion of the facts of this case, because this would not be reasonable. It seems that your presentation of a popular consensus regarding those facts is only intended to introduce the broader subject of everything else. So in a sense, the specific facts are an unfortunate distraction.
My observation about category 2 — everything else, is that it is a vast subject that most of us only know from our own limited perspectives. That is to say, that most of us are are only very marginally qualified to discuss this subject. We may have some opinions, and those may serve our everyday needs, but let us admit that individually our opinions are pretty meager.
However, there are some among us in this country that have had broader experiences, and because of their circumstances, have contemplated the subject much more than most of us have. When they can be found, those people are worth listening to. Earlier in this thread, at 23:28, I referred to Fred Reed. I suspect that he is one of those people. This is not to say that his opinions are correct, or that he adequately addresses the vastness of the subject. Rather, that he has a lot to offer, particularly in the “not just hypothetical” way that you are requesting.
Here again is the URL I gave earlier:
http://www.fredoneverything.net/CopNotes.shtml
So to answer your question: No, most of us probably cannot intelligently discuss these issues, but maybe Fred has, at least in part.
Are you an American? I think not. You write very knowledgeably about the situation in the Ukraine, but your handle on American issues and American facts is shaky at best. Stick to what you know.
Ann,
Thank you! ;~)
Writer,
Facts are never “an unfortunate distraction”. Quite the opposite: *verifiable* facts are the basis of any reasonable discussion. The underlying issue is how they can be validly and reliably verified, and different fields utilize different procedures. In law, there are very strict rules of evidence; in science, data must be collected and analyzed according to strict but very different rules (obviously), and historiography utilizes still other means and conventions to determine relevant facts supporting what is being said. But all animals living in the wild constantly collect and analyze real-world data in order to stay alive — not opinions, and certainly not conjecture, not contemplation, and not even concensus. If Rush Limbaugh expostulated that the sky was red, the concensus among his followers would still be wrong, no matter how many of them fervently believed it.
“Race relations” and/or “racial issues” are a discussion we need rather badly in this country, and you’re absolutely right that they’re beyond the reach of a lot of folks here. I wrote up that piece at the request of the Russian blog and provided the background facts — yes, facts — and evidence agreed upon by all eyewitnesses according to standard legal procedure. Saker wanted to post it here and I reluctantly agreed, knowing exactly what would happen. And the idiot chorus predictably went nuts, demonstrating everything I said in that piece and on this blog about our Culture Wars and the psychopathology thereby engendered.
And no, psychopathology is not another word for psychopath, it is a technical term used by professionals to refer to the presence of what the lay world would call disordered mental processes. However, now that I’ve brought it up, a lot of people here agree that one sign of psychopathy (the word referring to psychopaths) is a lack of empathy. And we’ve got people here who cry crocodile tears for the residents of the Donbass and endlessly extoll the brotherhood and other universal virtues present in them, and yet are utterly incapable of doing the same on the home front. Instead, they started foaming at the mouth bc I listed facts — yes, documented facts — about genuine barriers impacting a large chunk of our population. And at that point, those folks were so blinded by all the garbage they’ve deliberately been fed by Rush Limbaugh and the other well-paid shills on FOX news etc. to amp up their fears and anger, that they wouldn’t know a fact if they fell over it.
The bottom line, however, remains the same: any group or individual in this country can be “entitled”, “racist”, big, stupid, horny, whatever else you don’t like — and you certainly don’t have to like them One. Single. Bit. Nevertheless, if they are an American citizen, they are entitled by law to equal protection under the law. The fact that this is not happening is… a fact. If you or anyone else are uncomfortable with it and trying to find ways to justify the lack of equal protection, those are your feelings and that’s fine, but they have nothing whatever to do with the facts of the matter.
Nora,
“You may not like the facts I presented but they are nonetheless facts. So yes, inaccurate for me but still fits you. Your bias is showing — not mine.
It is a fact that Wilson shot Brown. Stating it as a fact is not convicting him — how on earth can I convict him? That’s really a rather desperately silly and, yes, tendentious argument to make.”
I do not dispute that someone was killed. You used the term “murder” and that is what I referenced. That is a judgment that I objected to.
“Do you understand the rules of evidence, or anything else about how our admittedly imperfect system of justice is supposed to work? You sure show no sign of it.”
The Saker cautioned everyone not to insult you. I believe I have observed good manners. Your comment at best is, as the Brits say, “bad form.”
Beautiful article, Nora. Very well written and researched. As someone who grew up in The South I well know where you are coming from.
Keep up the good work and keep up the good fight!
Nora,
I would like to thank you for your fine piece. I only have one thing to add. I did not know about the police driving over the makeshift memorial but it confirmed something I thought from the beginning when Mr. Browns body was left lying in the street for so long. It looked to me like deliberate humiliation, something that is as old as Homer (Achilles and Hector). It is done for a reason. It filled me with disgust.
Stephen
Thanks for writing this post, Nora. I gained a lot of insight. You laid out quite a lot of data and in a way that made sense to me.
I was disappointed but not surprised at those who criticised you without realising what you were doing for us with your brief, concise (but necessarily incomplete) overview. And that your critics didn’t realise that you were the only one using reason and not opinions.
I think Writer was the only one that got it.
All these people who want to change the world would do well to improve themselves first by first learning how to formally reason. No wonder the PTB have such a field day using divide and conquer techniques – racism being just one.
Well done and thank you, again.
Saker:
Honestly do not understand, do not enter my head what happens between blacks and whites in the United States.
I know there is racism in Brazil but today in my 52 years of life I have never found any.
Maybe the sun below the equator have everyone look the same or perhaps this same sun cook our brains and eyes to the point of not discern the color of the skin of who is on our side.
There is great miscegenation here is cultural, it assimilated the Portuguese.
I would like you to talk more about how this thing is racism in the USA.
‘s There a subject that can not assimilate.
Grateful.
Alexandre – Proftel.
@ Saker
Wow, thank you for that laugh. Not even just the comment but the way you presented it… hilarious.
It requires a very specific mind bordering on mental retardation to come up with something so pathetic.
I say provide a “jerk of the day” since I am a firm believer in approaching stuff like this with humour, and perhaps some public shaming might deter the others.
PS I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. I hope when the blog moves there will be a forum, because it’s rather difficult to have a discussion with other posters in a long line of successive comments.
Malooga said:
Kudos Nora on an excellent and measured piece of work! (And it is a skill to write an even, measured piece on an emotional topic.)
And kudos Saker on running it. Also some very good comments (along with the usual repetition).
Next, I would like to address everyone, but specifically OldOZ.
Anyone engaged in research science, logic, or argumentation theory, is familiar with the phrase “Correlation does not imply causation.” In other words, just because two separate phenomena are found together does not mean that one caused the other. If, for instance, people who watch Star Trek are found to have a greater incidence of cancer than people who watch Bonanza, that does not imply that one TV show causes cancer, while the other one doesn’t.
OldOZ has experienced a greater level of violence from black people where he lives. That would properly be called “empirical” or “a posteriori” knowledge — certainly a valid type of knowledge. The question OldOZ needs to honestly ask himself is whether that violence is caused by the perpetrator’s skin color. If not, he should honestly search deeper for what the actual cause of the violence is. Then he could make a case connecting the violence to a provable cause, or, more often in human society, complex of causes. Otherwise, he should recognize that his argument is based upon a logical fallacy.
Second, I find the whole case inexplicable, since in the summer kids play in the street. It happens wherever I have lived, and it happens on relatively traffic-free streets, like the one in Ferguson where Michael Brown was killed. The standard procedure for any car, including a police cruiser, would be to simply tap their horn and wait for the street to clear before passing by. The question is, why didn’t that happen in this case? Why did Officer Wilson even pause in the first place?
And last, even though the point has been made before, I would like to connect this event, along with the general phenomena of police violence against blacks, with events in Donbass. And, I would like to connect both events with the political concept of Fascism. Fascism always includes the demonization, marginalization, and sometimes, murder or removal, of a minority segment of its population. Fascism is the implementation of the divide and conquer strategy within a single society. It creates an intentional schism, and pits one part of society from the other. Both groups are then preoccupied and emotionally charged, and thus, more vulnerable to manipulation by the powers that control society. Some of the more emotional commenters should pause and recognize how they are being manipulated.
Africans who were brought to the territory which would eventually become part of the United States were indeed Africans; and slavery existed in each of the colonial British republics or, put another way, in each of the original thirteen slaves. By the official end of the slave trade, most of them were concentrated in the Southern states, with the South stretching from Delaware down the southern side of the Ohio Valley, into Missouri, across the Indian Territory and into Texas and beyond to the Arizona Territory (Arizona and New Mexico). Within that territory, there developed a distinctly Southern tradition of customs, traditions and habits which were unique and quite other than those of Puritan New England. It is in New England that the notion of American Exceptionalism was born and from there it was exported as a demographic invasion of the Old Northwest in the 1830’s and 1840’s and a military invasion of the South in the 1860’s. The vast majority of slaves and their current descendants are Southerners. Saxons, Scotch-Irish, French and Spanish Europeans as masters, yeoman farmers and merchants and Africans, mostly as slaves but also some as free men, but the South and her culture. The nascent Hobbesian state which is today the global Empire began in America with Lincoln’s total war against the South. At the end of that war, Lincoln had destroyed two unions of constitutionally federated republics: that of the United States of America and that of the Confederate States of America. In their place, he and the Republican Party, an unholy alliance of Southern-hating abolitionists, corporatists and anti-African Free Soilers, i.e. white labor only in the territory with no free blacks or slaves, had erected a Hobbesian state which is an abstract corporation with a monopoly on coercion, with the sole means to determine the limits of its own power and animated by a strong will, be that the will of a dictator, of an oligarchy, or of a democratic majority manipulated by elites. This is the same Hobbesian state which now threatens New Russia. In short, the descendants of Africans now living on the territory of the United States, have, regardless of their geographic location, a Southern soul in a black idiom. The empire, which invented Jim Crow, for it originated in the North and was exported by bayonet to the South during Reconstruction, has profited immensely from the animosity engendered between white and black Southerners. It loves to divide peoples just as it has in Ukraine.
Ugh! Hate to see this topic here to be honest. Why? Because there is too much emotion in play based on a single unclear incident. Sure, 1 man was killed. But seriously, how many are killed in the USA every single day? How many whites are killed by blacks? How many whites are killed by whites? How many blacks are killed by whites? How many blacks are killed by blacks?
To me, as a European, the problem in the USA is not just the police force. It’s the entire society’s propencity for violence. It’s the availability and use of weapons in everyday society.
Seriously. How do you expect a police officer to act when he knows what he is up against? I’m not saying its right or not. I’m just saying that it might be natural to shoot first and ask questions later when so many people walk around armed and dangerous.
I’ve read page up and page down about this case for weeks now. What stands out to me is the autopsy report indicating where Brown was hit. That is completely contradictory to alleged witness reports he was sitting on his knees with his hands in the air. So those can be stricken as lies. The bullet hit pattern looks like rapid fire left to right with the last bullet hitting the top of the head as he was dropping. To me it seems to fall in line with the witness testimony claiming Brown was bumrushing the police officer from about 30 feet away.
How anyone can seriously claim Brown as “unarmed” and thereby not be a threat at 6’4″ and 300 lbs has NO IDEA what they are talking about.
No matter if you like it or not, police officers are given the right to protect themselves and the public with lethal force. In my view, all information available at this point indicate that this was a righteous kill. RACE PLAYS NO ISSUE HERE! If Brown had been a white man I would STILL not have an issue with this.
All of this endless hyperbole and hate is the REAL problem with US society. The US has some real racial issues to deal with. This is not the way to go about it! This is not the case to fight over! The problems in the US are much more than white racism towards blacks. The racism goes in all directions with tensions running dangerously high. White racism does not make black racism acceptable! And vice versa! Then it becomes an endless circlejerk of hate like it is now.
I’m disgusted with the entire situation. Let the police and internal investigation go over the case and publish a report supported by real facts before concluding.
Norwegian Bob
re: racism in America Treyvon Martin (unarmed) was subjected to the same kind of vilification post mortem as was Michael Brown (unarmed) and Treyvon (unarmed) was not shot by someone operating under the badge of law. Yet the white tribe railed to construct its self justifying ” blame the victim” narrative(again). Now, I ask, where else in the world was this happening at the very same time? Doesn’t this make you automatically suspicious or at least questioning?
One of the best aspects of this blog is that some of my firmly held conceptions get rattled around a bit and that is good because when you live in the belly of the beast it is hard sometimes to notice the unspoken assumptions lodged in your own thinking. Best to take them out, shake them off and look at them.
Fact: most black violence is black on black and that every Afro American community is interested in its own safety–bottom line.
To write, “It should also be noted that fears of a black insurrection as well as the desire to conserve one’s human property led quite early to the formation of armed paramilitary slave patrols throughout the South, a primary reason for both the inclusion and peculiar wording of the Second Amendment” betrays a gross ignorance of not only American history but the basic source and division of power among the members of societies throughout much Western Civilization dating back to even before the Magna Carta or the Norman conquest of England.
As to the specific wording of the Second Amendment, not one of the quotes in the linked article that purport to explain the linguistic evolution was actually from the period between June 8, 1789 when Madison made the initial motion in the House of Representatives and August 17, when the House Committee of Eleven returned something close to the final language (excepting certain issues of capitalization and punctuation) which in fact more closely resembled both Mason’s original language in the Virginia Declaration Rights 13 years earlier as well as Whitehill, Franklin et al’s language in the Pennsylvania Constitution.
The “body of the people, trained to arms” has several key functions, among them: deterring tyranny, repelling invasion whether by European power or indigenous Americans), and suppressing insurrection, of which, slave insurrections are only one type, and in fact it was an armed tax insurrection, by free property owning white men. The simple truth is that the primary schism among American elite at the end of the 18th century was between the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists.
There is an somewhat understandable desire by the downtrodden and the oppressed to question the sanctioned narrative of history which is largely dictated by the victors occupying the ruling class. However, when one takes the low road of intellectual dishonesty to argue a false point, they only lend credence to the derision with with the ruling class views the downtrodden, the oppressed, and their sympathizers.
If one wants to seriously examine the manifestation of fears of a black insurrection in colonial and early American history, they need to begin with the distinct evolution of Black Laws in each of the 13 colonies which explicitly dealt with not only the precise definition of Negro, Mulatto, but also the extension, or limit, of freedoms and responsibilities to those defined groups by the application of those Black Laws. To ignore the great preponderance of the many thousands of pages historical 18th century and earlier source evidence in order to advance a false argument based on highly selective presentation and interpretation is crime worthy of Joseph Goebbels or his contemporary kindred spirit in Kiev, except that in that this case it is the other side that is advancing the ludicrous propaganda.
I suggest blackagendareport.com and kasamaproject.org as well for information on Ferguson as well as the situation Black people face in general in North America.
A couple of good books available free in PDF online,
settlers: the mythology of the white proletariat by j Sakai
Negroes with guns by Robert Williams
RRH Canada
Nora
Good you end with the why as a moment in process.
Perhaps I can pose a couple of other whys.
Why loot and why loot what was looted?