While Nazi death squads are roaming around the Donbass and murdering civilians and “their own” soldiers the Kremlin’s response seems to be limited to two aspects: denouncing the atrocities on the ground and providing truthful information to the Ukrainian population (via the Russian media) and the world (via RT). This is good, but not enough.
I am pretty confident that the GRU knows all the Ukrainian unit commanders down to the company commander (usually a Senior/First Lieutenant). This is standard practice for any military intelligence agency. They most definitely know (or should know) all the names of the brigade HQ officers and above. Finally, I would also bet that all the names of the senior Right Sector and various death squads commanders are also known to the GRU.
So why not leak them to the media?
Let it be know that if you give a criminal order your name will become public which, while not as unpleasant as a court-martial for war crimes, could still be very, very unpleasant for the folks thus singled out.
The Russians could begin by a small leak, just a few names, and then make it known that “more names shall be leaked as circumstances warrant it”. This would create quite a panic, at least amongst regular Ukrainian army commanders, the pilots of rotary or fixed wing aircraft, artillery battery commanders, especially if the penalty for being put on such a list is left deliberately vague. And it could save a lot of lives.
Alas, it appears that the traditional GRU mania for secrecy is still the rule and that the appointment of a relatively young GRU Chief (Igor Sergun) has not heralded a new era in this traditionally most conservative branch of the Russian military.
But maybe another, more forward looking agency, could make a few suggestions to the right people?
The Saker
Saker Message:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/05/22/363676/us-secretly-selling-nukes-worldwide/
Dear The Saker,
I think they will do what they want in their time – they are playing a waiting game. Don’t know if you have seen this – they are leaking out some very serious stuff. This might just be the start of the boomerang effect:
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/05/22/363676/us-secretly-selling-nukes-worldwide/
If one listens closely to Putin’s words today at the SPIEF about Ukraine et al and read between the lines – there was more said then met the eye……
Rgds,
Veritas
So please tell about your interpretation of Putin’s covert comments from today’s conference.
“So why not leak them to the media?”
I am a bit puzzled by your last post. It reads like you suggest to the GRU what to do.
Would you really suggest that secret operatives of Rusia show their hands and use the media, thus exposing Russia to a pys op of the west, targeted to discredit Russia with force, while at the same time Russia with Putin tries its best to appear all peacefully and diplomatic?
I don’t understand.
-yt
Yeah! Sure! There must be a reason.
Don’t you think so?
My guess is that it is strategy over tactic, it’s more beneficial to use this information sparingly.
Another point is that YOUR position isn’t (at all…) the same than the Russian side, they are playing for the long game and for THEIR interests and not driven by purely emotional motivation as you seem to be.
Also your primary “military view” of the action probably blinds you to the geopolitical and “world opinion” matters which may give more weight to a restrained attitude (at least you share this with quite a few commenters :-) )
Saker,
I haven’t the nerve to look at that presstv piece on our selling nukes — can only take so much of this stuff at a time — but I’m wondering if Russia isn’t playing a (very) long game here. After all, Ukraine’s basically had it, gonna be what it’s gonna be and that is a bankrupt chaotic mess for the foreseeable future. If Putin steps in, it really could make things a lot worse, don’t you think? Also, Russia’s got her own survival to worry about — don’t forget, we’re not just stupid and reckless and violent, we’re crazy enough to do a lot more damage than “just” SE Ukraine. We really do have to be de-fused very, very carefully because we really could go off at any time. But all the ties Russia is making, politically, economically, militarily, can all be seen as not just long-range but medium term constraints on us. A strait-jacket has been measured and is being sewn up; when the patient is ready, I do believe it will be too. The suffering and deaths of the innocent in Ukraine do not belong on Russia’s conscience — they are on ours, no?
@Nora:The suffering and deaths of the innocent in Ukraine do not belong on Russia’s conscience — they are on ours, no?
No. They are on the conscience of those who by action and inaction created this mess. You, and I, simply do not have the power to affect that situation and as long we do not support what is happening there, I don’t think that we can be blamed for it either.
As for some folks in DC selling nukes, just look at Sibel Edmond’s testimony. Its amazing stuff.
Kind regards,
The Saker
A little comedic relief? Found this on Drudge, of all places.
http://www.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/barbara-boland/putin-obama-who-he-judge-seriously
Saker and guys,
Perhaps the following article translated into Spanish for the site “Rebelión” may provide some idea of caution to publish such lists.
Perhaps now is not the time, with the pain to the surface fro the killings, at the risk of an escalation of violence….
Although the article is in Spanish, you can read the original in Russian through the link at the end.
May be someone can find a link in english.
http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=185053&titular=econom%EDa-de-la-violencia-
@elsi: he following article translated into Spanish for the site “Rebelión” may provide some idea of caution to publish such lists.
Yes, very good point. There are definitely very real risk in publishing some lists. But I think that this can be prevented against by 1) the professionalism of the folks in the GRU and 2) by keeping the lists short. Issue a few, absolutely certain, names and then have the rest fear being next. There are quite a few names which are already rock-solidly established, they just need to be made public, I think.
Cheers,
The Saker
I read part of the nuke article and I don’t see how it could be true (where is this Russian report anyway?). There’s no way the building could fall into it’s own footprint (into the area of greatest resistance) at the speed of gravity with a nuke. The only way to do that is with a professional demolition. And one can also clearly see the squibs blowing out dust from each floor sequentially from top to bottom just like a professional demolition.
I read part of the nuke article and I don’t see how it could be true (where is this Russian report anyway?). There’s no way the building could fall into it’s own footprint (into the area of greatest resistance) at the speed of gravity with a nuke. The only way to do that is with a professional demolition. And one can also clearly see the squibs blowing out dust from each floor sequentially from top to bottom just like a professional demolition.
Why did you censor my comment? Because it goes against the Jew hate, you phoney?
@zardoz: Why did you censor my comment? Because it goes against the Jew hate, you phoney?
I did not censor it, it took be a while to get to the moderation of the posts here because I have a life and I cannot spend all my time at the keyboard, you sorry self-centered crybaby :-P
Sorry bout that :) I get censored constantly on Youtube so it’s a sore point for me.
business guys not happy with eu-politicos
they say they’re “being taken hostage by irresponsible political-decision-making people”
–watch the video–
‘China ready to replace EU investors in Russia if more sanctions follow’
http://rt.com/news/161104-sanction-eu-russia-china/
@zardoz: Sorry bout that :) I get censored constantly on Youtube so it’s a sore point for me.
LOL! I get accused of censorship, so that is a sore point for me. My apologies for the “self-centered crybaby” comment :-)
But, no, I really try had to not censor and to moderate as fast as I can. I recently got so fed up with racist trolls that I had to post this: http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/05/personal-announcement-rules.html
But then I *also* get accused of anti-Semitism for using the expression “AngloZionist” so I get it from both sides (which I actually see as very much alike!) and some days it really sours my mood…
Anyway, you are welcome here and so are your comments!
Cheers,
The Saker
Well, thanks for posting my comment and I have no problem with the phrase “Anglo-Zionist” :) Also, I think Kolomoisky is overdue for a bullet in his malfunctioning brain (if it’s ok to say that).
@ sAKER/nORA,
Q: You, and I, simply do not have the power to affect that situation and as long we do not support what is happening there, I don’t think that we can be blamed for it either.
R: It’s not about blaming one way or another or one person or another. Although this entire situation is very saddening and I personally feel almost helpless, there’s still the option to bug the hell out of your local congress person [emails/phone/fax] and urge him/her to do the appropriate thing.
It’s not much, that’s true, but it is at least something.
Yes, Saker, it is clear that fear has to change sides and, really, would be a good support for people who are struggling and demoralizing for bullies.
The point that I found interesting was the possible use of vengeance ( including “false falg”)to discredit both more, resistants in the Donbass and Russia.
Kind regards and good night
“So why not leak them to the media?”
It’s a good question, since exposing these names is unlikely to be something that would adversely affect intelligence gathering and related. At least I would think so, since the info would not be the result of anything that hard to find for amateurs with internet and a knowledge of the language.
@ Daniel Rich
You still believe Congress is going to listen to a dissenting voice on this issue?
Why not expose the scumbags?—if only to scare the whole grouping??
Because “war criminal” was devised by Anglo-phone Zion to deflect the guilt of globalist anti-humanity, from great wars to terrorism, onto the Empire’s victims. Human beings fight wars to negotiation; anti-human super power pulverises the prey to what was called unconditional surrender when those defending the land of their birth are called criminal and hanged. Though, in my opinion, the Russians should specify the murderers including their UN/mirage queen Elizabeth NoName, this will not occur to their non-criminal mentality. War criminals are de facto only what the satanised (minority of) Talmudists say are war criminals.
II’ve been chewing on your question, Saker, but I always keep coming back to the same place. Maybe I’m being overly idealistic here and putting too much faith in Putin and what I see as the many superiorities of Russian, well, culture, for lack of a better word. But I just have this faith that this mess is well been understood and well thought through in all its complexity and in light of his own values and short-term and long-range goals, that he’s moving in a very deliberate, measured fashion, carefully evaluating every move by every party and I do think he will when he thinks it will do the most to get him what he wants. I’m American, I’m impatient, I want it over now — maybe you’ve “caught” some of that too? But it won’t be for a long time, not in Ukraine or anywhere else, because we’ve got to be brought down/de-fused slowly and carefully, or not just Russia but the whole world will suffer. And I know he knows that — everyone does except us.
Over 6,500 guests, 609 heads of major Russian and non-Russian corporations, and 1,700 journalists are participating in SPIEF 2014, taking place from May 22-24. Delegations from 75 countries are at the forum.
Day 2
19.00 MSK: Asian Times correspondent Pepe Escobar gave his impression of President’s Putin speech to RT. “It was a geopolitical equivalent of a ‘rock superstar’ addressing an audience,” he said. According to Escobar, there were three key messages Mr Putin clearly delivered. First, the sanctions are unlawful and illegal. Second, he’s going to respect whatever happens in the Ukrainian elections this Sunday. And third, by arranging a “surprise speech” by Chinese Vice President Li Yuanchao, the Russian President sent a message that Eurasian integration is being enacted.
http://rt.com/business/160516-petersburg-forum-live-spief/
Indeed :) and the public loved it.
Me too. I watched a RT video with some 30 min of his interview and felt kind of mesmerized listening to him.
I want this geopolitical-rock-superstar-V.V. Putin for president of Europe. ASAP.
((*.*))
This is definitely OT, but it’s good to see the bulls fighting back against the scum.
(Warning: graphic anti-Catholic terrorists in action depicted.)
Bullfight-back: Madrid’s Corrida canceled after all matadors gored
http://rt.com/in-vision/matadors-gored-madrid-bullfight/
Perhaps that’s just the beginning of a genuine Bovinian rebellion against the human overlords?
Cows With Guns – The Original Animation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI
In a way, Ukraine Army is doing it itself. Today’s Donbass Battalion ambush has to be its way of pay back. However, I do worry about the evacuation order. Palestinian lost their land forever after they fled the violence.
J
Saker, this is a good idea.
I recommend that your article title be phrased as a question. (That is, I recommend that you end your article title with a question mark.) It would make the language clearer.
@ pug
Q: pug said… @ Daniel Rich
You still believe Congress is going to listen to a dissenting voice on this issue?
R: No, I don’t.
It’s the only democratically sound thing I can think of. The only other viable option would be to pick up a rifle and join the defenders.
Wonder to here: http://www.rightnow.io/breaking-news/donbass-russian-ussr-wars_bn_1398943504133.html
and saw this:http://inforesist.org/the-person-who-disclosed-positions-of-the-ukrainian-soldiers-near-volnovaha-to-terrorist-has-been-identified-photo/?lang=en
Hope some one warns him.
This play right into topic of this article. People are mad there. Is there a effective way to counter this madness?
J
Daniel Rich,
Congresscritter staff maybe — maybe — tally calls, emails and letters before a controversial vote, but it’s very rare indeed for any of them to change how they cast their vote due to constituent opinion. They’ve already been bought, their districts are generally fairly safe and they’re too busy looking up at their corporate sponsors or party leadership to pay us much mind. You’ll eventually get a form letter but don’t delude yourself that the crudbucket you elected ever saw what you wrote, cares a shred about what you think, or composed the cookie-cutter/pablum response you get in return for your effort. Contacting them is generally safer than protesting but every bit as useless. Writing letters to your daily paper, otoh, might enlighten a few folks, or at least get them to stop and think.
“Why does Russia not leak the names of the war criminals”
It would be a bad move imo.
1) Such leaks would directly threaten the lifes of the accused.
2) That’s why rock solid proof must be presented.
3) GRU’s proof won’t be accepted, because “Russian propaganda” etc.
4) Can’t just “leak” it to the media, because what if the media leaks the source? Then it’s a PR disaster for Russia.
5) Ergo, if such accusations (of war crimes) are to happen at all, then by the media itself without GRU help.
That scumbag Tymchuk should look in the mirror along with his fellow EuroMaidan Bandera cultists instead of constantly blaming the oligarchs and Ukrainian Army for the war they started. If Tymchuk is such a badass let him pick up his AK and go hunting for Strelkov himself, like all the other punk-rse Pravy Sektor thugs sitting comfortably in Lviv, Kiev and Dnetropetrovsk. Let them take the field of battle proudly with their Pravy Sektor Banderite flag or stop defaming the courage of the Ukrainian Army for refusing to fight and die for their Banderastan when they’d just as soon desert if they wouldn’t be murdered possibly with their families later.
American Kulak
These links t presstv.ir are utterly deranged. It is total fabrication. There is no way that a small nuke could be detonated in Manhattan and not leave one big fingerprint (i.e. numerous radionucleides that would be present today). This theory is even stupider than the notion the world trade centers were downed by controlled demolitions.
anon 01:49 said: “Palestinian lost their land forever after they fled the violence”
beg to differ, not forever but for the moment ;) — and just because USA’s support to the zio-entity.
The USA is untrustable and utterly dishonest (even to its own citizenship). Much repeating the omni-present nonsensical “god bless” “in god we trust” (writen on the dollar ha ha) as well as claims of being a christian country, when it actually has NO morals nor decency AT ALL.
That barracks-teocratic-fascist self-proclaimed state usurping and occupying Palestine, and killing palestinian kids on a daily basis, is on life-support by (who else?) the USamerican taxpayers. But despite that, the zio-entity is NOT yet self-sufficient 61 years after it declared itself a state. It won’t last many more years, anyone can see it writen on the wall.
Palestine and the palestinians will be free, sooner than many folks think. And on that day, many of us all the world around will raise our cups to celebrate their freedom with them.
Long live Palestine!
((*.*))
@Anonymous 02:16
^
“and saw this:http://inforesist.org/the-person-who-disclosed-positions-of-the-ukrainian-soldiers-near-volnovaha-to-terrorist-has-been-identified-photo/?lang=en“
This why civil war is so terrible, it’s local and personal.
@123abc:
1) Such leaks would directly threaten the lifes of the accused.
Yes. That would be the intention indeed.
2) That’s why rock solid proof must be presented.
No, not presented, only established.
3) GRU’s proof won’t be accepted, because “Russian propaganda” etc.
The point would not be to convince anybody in the West or the media, but to make the ground burn under the feet of these SOBs in the Ukraine.
4) Can’t just “leak” it to the media, because what if the media leaks the source? Then it’s a PR disaster for Russia.
Of course you can! Who do you think intercepted, recorded and leaked all the phone conversations of Nuland or Timoshenko? The Russians of course (spetssviaz FSO, GRU, SVR – pick you fav).
5) Ergo, if such accusations (of war crimes) are to happen at all, then by the media itself without GRU help.
The media does not have the means the GRU has. So the latter needs to help the former, imho.
Cheers,
The Saker
Dear Nora,
there is Russian proverb “Bad peace is better than a good war”.
Many Russians see Ukraine as a victim. Also one of the traits of Russian character is that they are very forgiving. They would rather cooperate with us than fight.
1.000 million dollars per year will pay the Ucrayne to the USAmerican Westinghouse, as per contract, to get USamerican uranium bars for 3 of its several nuclear plants.
This in all probability will create apocalypse for Ucrayne and the surrounding countries (1 precedent already), since the american bars cannot be used for russian reactors and viceversa.
When, oh when, will the usamericans stay home, lock themselves into, and throw the keys away so that, we, the rest of the world, can live our lives and see ourselves rid from them?
((´_´))
Yes, such a public would be good since there is already a website on the internet listing Serbian war criminals along with their photos and relevant details. You can google it as I did about a year ago. Perhaps one shouldn’t wait for President Putin and the GRU or FSB agencies to it. A private blogger or interested party can do it.
Perhaps it ought not be limited to Ukrainians but Japanese, Americans, British, French war criminals also.
I am sure Simon Wiesenthal would be sure approve; He, the exemplar hunter of Nazi war criminals.
Re: Congress — the only Congress ‘critters’ I’ve seen swim against the tide at all (not counting retired Congressman Ron Paul who’s already routinely denounced as a Russian agent by neocons) on Ukraine/Crimea are Rep. Dana Rohrbacher R-CA, who ironically did some mujahadeen tourism in Afghanistan back in the 1980s during the Soviet occupation, and Rep. Alan Grayson D-FL.
Dana is a well known Russophile who was part of the House Russia Caucus before the FBI raided Rep. Curt Weldon to shut him up about Able Danger and because Amerikansky siloviks did not liek Weldon’s contacts on the Russian side (I believe he like Rohrbacher was tight with the late Gen. Alexandr Lebed, who probably would’ve been president instead of Putin had Lebed not died in a mysterious plane crash in the late 1990s). The FBI raided Weldon’s office as part of an investigation of his relatives two or three weeks before the general election. Weldon himself was NEVER charged with any crime.
Why Grayson was willing to stick his neck out alongside Rohrbacher as both sides ritually denounced the annexation of Crimea by meekly suggesting that maybe it was legitimate self-determination, I have no idea. Maybe the Florida-based Saker knows him? :)
American Kulak
Here’s my entry for the most utterly confusing piece of info:
http://www.jta.org/2014/05/23/news-opinion/world/shaken-by-ukraines-turmoil-kiev-jews-form-self-defense-force
“The separatists are on a mission to portray the Ukrainians as anti-Semites and to do that they are targeting the Jewish community,” said Gedaliah, another prominent member of the eight-man Jewish force who requested that only his first name be used. “Failing that, they’d love to illustrate how the Ukrainian government is helpless to protect the country’s Jews and harm its legitimacy”
I do not know how to start to unpack that.
Stockholm syndrome?
How to explain it?
There is considerable credible evidence that members of some units of the Ukrainian Army have refused to fire on civilians (knowing full well that it is a war crime for which they may have to answer later, quite apart from the insult it might be to their integrity), and have been promptly gunned down by the Right Sektor “commissars” who generally follow behind the regular army units. Then, too, they may well be under pressure to fight or face reprisals against their families.
According to the blog of Igor Strelkov, the Donetsk People’s Republic’s military leader, there have been two incidents which are being confused with one another and are prompting no end of speculation. In the latter incident, the one in which the military helicopters appeared to be conducting attack runs on their own side – a unit of the regular army, mostly comprised of young conscripts – militia from Slavyansk under the command of Ponomaryev are said to have killed the demoralized soldiers remaining after the helicopters departed. Strelkov found this behaviour revolting and dishonourable, and he a llegedly disarmed Ponomaryev and his inner circle because of it because they lacked military discipline; his position is that those soldiers might easily have been convinced to “come over to the side of the people”.
http://summer56.livejournal.com/119139.html
In the other incident, which is said to have occurred at the town of Navodruzhkovka, in the Lugansk region, soldiers of the regular army were allegedly ordered to fire on civilians who were trying to stop the army vehicles with their hands. Some 30 soldiers refused and were shot. It is not clear if they were shot by military leadership on their own side or by Right Sektor “commissars”, but a survivor on the Ukrainian army side said that Right Sektor customarily follows behind the army to ensure it is “doing its duty”, and executes those who it finds “cowardly”.
http://www.kp.ru/online/news/1742734/
The Ukrainian army is caught between a rock and a hard place. It seems to be going about its ordered responsibility – to crush the insurgency – with noticeable reluctance and a great deal of show but with few fatalities, and we should not discount the possibility it is acting under coercion, and knows it is being ordered to commit war crimes. At the same time, soldiers’ families may be under threat if they do not obey. The Kiev junta and its fascist stormtroopers are capable of anything. What beggars belief is that the west’s leaders continue to support these lunatics, cover up for them and whitewash their crimes. Say your prayers that a reckoning is coming, because if they were going to back down in self-loathing for their support of Nazi worshipers, they would have done so already. They appear determined to go all the way, wherever that might lead.
About this:
Anonymous said…
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/05/22/363676/us-secretly-selling-nukes-worldwide/
23 May, 2014 21:51
“The highly classified Russian report, released, experts believe, to demonstrate American hypocrisy over recent events in the Ukraine, is a litany of horror stories. If this is a “first shot over the bow” by Russian intelligence, American officials can only dread what may be to come.”
If this is true, there is a large disclosure. I hope that Russia actually has done it. The world needs the truth. The US and the EU will be unable to keep their attention on Ukraine and thus, Russia could intervene.
Thank to you for the information.
I wouldn’t believe anything that Gordon Duff or any of the VT guys say.
I don’t know why Press TV gives them any air time other than their anti-Zionist stance.
I’d bet they work for the DIA.
Dear Saker
Maybe it would be good that we find out the names and name them.
@Saker
Thanks for the clarifications. I must have misunderstood your original post. I thought that you meant GRU either has to present the info either under its own name, or leak the info to journalists who know that the info is coming from GRU. This kind of release of info I am against.
But of course I’m all for anonymous release of info for example on channels like youtube or blogs (like it has happened already). And then the big media can pick up the info and present it to a bigger audience.
Whether the US sold nuclear weapons or not the idea that such weapons were used in 911 is implausible. Even if initial flash has more UV than visible light the visible light portion is so intense it would show on all videos of the event.
USA wants to spend $30billion to “improve democracy” in Russia.
http://www.voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/ssha-planiruyut-novuyu-demokratiyu-v-ros.html
link to the document (sec.206):
http://www.corker.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/2011ccae-30db-4468-a707-e8c61fa9bef8/Section%20by%20Section%20-%20Russian%20Aggression%20Prevention%20Act%20-%20043014.pdf
Of course there were no nukes at the WTC on 9/11. Sibel Edmonds is truthful enough but irrelevant to this ridiculous flight of Gordon Duff garbage. The Twin Towers were brought down using a large number of carefully timed military-grade cutting charges emplaced via the lift-shafts. Building 7 was a perfectly conventional demolition with no mystery to it at all. And of course Gordon Duff and all his Veterans Today crowd are arrant disinformationalists. I have been saying that for several years, in fact ever since Duff appeared, with typically bogus claims that any intelligent child could see through, long before he was picked up by Press TV. And of course Press TV is run by adolescent minds who think it’s clever to print such things. My opinion of the Iranian political intelliegentsia has gone down considerably as a result of their adopting him and his crew. There are other equally mendacious op-ed writers on Press TV’s roster. But none of this is relevant to Saker’s post, and I only make this comment because I hate to see such rubbish attract readers, anywhere at all.
http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/2277/text
SEC. 206. SUPPORT FOR RUSSIAN DEMOCRACY AND CIVIL SOCIETY
ORGANIZATIONS.
(a) In General.–The Secretary of State shall increase efforts,
directly or through nongovernmental organizations, to–
(1) improve democratic governance, transparency,
accountability, rule of law, and anti-corruption efforts in the
Russian Federation;
(2) strengthen democratic institutions and political and
civil society organizations in the Russian Federation;
(3) expand uncensored Internet access in Russia; and
(4) expand free and unfettered access to independent media
of all kinds in Russia, including through increasing United
States Government-supported broadcasting activities, and to
assist with the protection of journalists and civil society
activists who have been targeted for free speech activities.
(b) Authorization of Appropriations.–There is authorized to be
appropriated to the Secretary of State $10,000,000 for each of fiscal
years 2015 through 2017 to carry out the activities set forth in
subsection (a).
Here’s why…
Read this article:
Sashko Bily
Now, first of all, you will admit that this is an attempt to make this man sound misunderstood, fundamentally good, and a victim… instead of a sadistic murderer and criminal, which is what he was.
Second, if you have seen the picture of his dead body in the local Ukrainian press you will notice that his belly is more protuberant than it could possibly be, even though he was fat, the reason being that his hands are handcuffed behind his back, which you cannot see. His shirt is torn open and he has been shot in the chest. All of which gives credence to the story that he was handcuffed, his shirt was torn open to confirm he was not wearing a bullet proof vest, and he was executed with shots to the heart.
Why and by whom?
He had made a mistake that could not be tolerated. He had been filmed, and the films had gone viral on YouTube. Mr. Higgins eulogy in the New York Times proves that this was not permitted and, in fact, led to his execution. Did Victoria Nuland herself pull the trigger, screaming, “___ the EU?” Perhaps not. But she may very well have approved this message.
What the GRU will publish is tape recordings and videos… which they already have. Names are meaningless. Ukrainians already know what is going on. It is the “West” that is being led around by the nose.
Daniel Rich,
“The only other viable option would be to pick up a rifle and join the defenders.”
Let me again recommend LTEs (letters to editors). But you put me in mind of a friend waaay back in the day when I asked how he’d gotten involved in (serious, not Obama-style) political organizing. He simply replied, “Because otherwise I’d have started throwing rocks through windows.” He was an Italian engineer and did a lot of good in this country, peacefully, and then spent the last 25 years or so of his life helping people in Africa, again peacefully.
marknesop,
Wait, what?
Could you please give a chronology of who did what when? As I understand it, the raw troops were sitting ducks for an original attack (by whom?) with or without helicopters (whose?), then more helicopters came(again, whose?), then they got shot (by whom?).
The head, she spins.
123abc, anonymous 11:54,
So is this whole Ukrainian gambit/Russian demonization a way to get funding for this crap through Congress? Because I also seem to remember that foreign NGO’s just got banned there? I hope so but if not, they’d better do it STAT!
God, we’re awful — instead of just taking our toys and going home (which the rest of the world would deeply appreciate), we’ve got to tear up the place first.
Well, for gosh sakes! I’ll admit I keep a (very) messy desktop, but I’m checking our weather forecast and all of a sudden, what do I HEAR, but some sort of press conference in Kiev. HUH????? So I start digging around to find where it’s coming from and,
I’ll be darned. If you want the propaganda straight from the horses’ mouth, just keep an open tab for the Ukraine Crisis Media Center and you’ll get it livestream just like the NYT!!! Not recommended for people with weak stomachs and/or high blood pressure.
http://uacrisis.org/
Well, for gosh sakes! I’ll admit I keep a (very) messy desktop, but I’m checking our weather forecast and all of a sudden, what do I HEAR, but some sort of press conference in Kiev. HUH????? So I start digging around to find where it’s coming from and,
I’ll be darned. If you want the propaganda straight from the horses’ mouth, just keep an open tab for the Ukraine Crisis Media Center and you’ll get it livestream just like the NYT!!! Not recommended for people with weak stomachs and/or high blood pressure.
http://uacrisis.org/
Patterns of criminal behavior: In Odessa the fascists/CIA strategists took the opportunity after their black op massacre to dismiss the mayor and take over the police. It is very possible that by making the Ukrainian army look incompetent and blaming them for their own deaths that they plan a kind of purge of the armed forces ( after the elections). It is certain that all the generals etc are being bugged and watched. All part of a plan for consolidation of power. If I were a Ukrainian general, I’d make sure my bodyguard was loyal, savy and armed to the teeth.
Nora said…24 May, 2014 13:08
“marknesop,
Wait, what?
Could you please give a chronology of who did what when? As I understand it, the raw troops were sitting ducks for an original attack (by whom?) with or without helicopters (whose?), then more helicopters came(again, whose?), then they got shot (by whom?).
The head, she spins.”
The claim by marknesop that Strelkov said:
“militia from Slavyansk under the command of Ponomaryev are said to have killed the demoralized soldiers remaining after the helicopters departed. Strelkov found this behaviour revolting and dishonourable, and he a llegedly disarmed Ponomaryev and his inner circle because of it because they lacked military discipline”
I have only seen made by marknesop, nowhere else. The link he provided: http://summer56.livejournal.com/119139.html does not say what he claims Strelkov said. This is what it actually says (via Yandex):
“Comment Igor Ivanovich on information about alleged Shooters arrested folk mayor of Slovyansk Ponomarev:
“No, not arrested. Only fully disarmed its protection and confidants. To have ceased to make an unlimited activities. Military power should be only one.”
So where he got such information, I have no idea. Incidentally, according to Colonel Cassad, Ponomarev denies Strelkov disarmed the people protecting him. See:
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1597521.html
Just found a valuable Dutch news site, with really excellent translations of many articles from wikispooks, like the Fursov speech etc. Not just about Ukraine. Some Dutch perspective is added (Many Dutch people think the Ukraine civil war was caused by a speech by Dutch Euro MP v Baalen and Belgian MP Verhofstad)…
I have not had the time to really look into the site, but it really looks good!
http://www.gewoon-nieuws.nl/
´ordinary-news´
For Dutch speaking people who have some trouble with English….
The information concerning the attacks against Ukrainian soldiers, one by Ukrainian regulars/irregulars and members of the Slavyansk militia and the other by militia of the Donetsk People’s Republic, comes from links in comments posted here
http://marknesop.wordpress.com/2014/05/21/the-russian-gas-carousel-who-wants-off-and-who-wants-on/#comment-60006
and here
http://marknesop.wordpress.com/2014/05/21/the-russian-gas-carousel-who-wants-off-and-who-wants-on/#comment-59954
You have to be able to read Russian, because the links are not in English, and machine translations sometimes do not convey the same message at all. The excerpted translations are by a native Russian speaker, which I am not.
You will not find me any friend of the Ukrainian army and certainly none of Kiev. However, I believe the army is being forced into a role that is incompatible with both its ethics and the loyalty oaths it swore. Consequently I find reports that Ukrainian soldiers are being executed for disobedience because they refuse to fire on unarmed civilians to be quite credible.
I would suggest that the greatest weakness in strategy is to map your own prejudices onto your opponent.
Laws are systematised rules the broad conformance to which are held to be neccessary condition for the existence/perpetuation of a specific poltical-economic system. Criminals are usually defined as those who do not conform to the “law”.
Laws are power, primarily exercised ideologically.
War is also the exercising of power – resort to which becomes necessary when the exercise of ideological power proves ineffective.
Justice is spelt differently from law, as justice is a malleable empty vessel affording others the opportunity to invest it with their prejudices – a very useful ideological tool.
The GRU are neither omniscient nor perfect. They also do not act in isolation.
They will have their deck of cards but not the Wink Martindale release.
In intelligence the process tends to run, data collection, data analysis, formulation of tactics based on this data but conditioned by strategic considerations, then activation of tactics with feedback.
Although Rumsfeld was ridiculed by some, perhaps including armchair warriors – and he did expressed it badly, there are known unknowns and unknown unknowns.
The unknown is a more disconcerting state than the known, giving more opportunity for manipulation, as most interrogators and interrogated will attest.
Emphasising one more mapping.
Amongst other possible outcomes your suggestion may:
1. Give the officers hero status with their “constituency” and increase the morale of both.
2. Reinforce the officers notion of the effectiveness of their behaviour since the opposition is singling them out.
3. Entrench the officers resolve in a kind of no way back option.
4. Modify the behaviour of the officers minimising their adverse impact which can be used to your advantage.
The operation by the Allies to assassinate Hitler was terminated in 1944 largely because he would do more damage alive than dead – Staffenberg’s plot having many ideological uses.
http://rt.com/news/161336-foreign-journalists-shot-ukraine/
i think this video features them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz-GqIBiv-4
you can hear an italian woman speaking in the background, chatting and joking with the defenders.
interestingly the youtube account of anna news got deleted after publishing this video. they seem to have opened a new channel on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/tvnewsfront
Anonymous 18:04
In intelligence the process tends to run, data collection, data analysis, formulation of tactics based on this data but conditioned by strategic considerations, then activation of tactics with feedback.
OODA Loops.
So maybe this link about Crimea snafu over Black Sea rights is not off topic since it was co-written by Franklin “Chuck” Spinney:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/23/crimea-an-eu-us-exxon-screwup/
Brian
Many are hoping that Langley have invested in a new box of paperclips.
Some are “contesting” a presidential election to merit a paperclip.
The one thing that the future will not be is the past.
Whatever happened to Stepan Bandera?
Brian_J said…
Anonymous 18:04
So maybe this link about Crimea snafu over Black Sea rights is not off topic since it was co-written by Franklin “Chuck” Spinney:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/23/crimea-an-eu-us-exxon-screwup/
Not unicausal – the world is more complex, lateral and interactive.
Factor in Monsanto,Agro, Pharma, various banks and others.
Evidence, background information, context should be gathered and duplicated in such a way that it can be presented later in front of a tribunal.
The accused has the right to a defense, even at Nuremberg. You do want to be better than Obama?
A minimum of civility is required. Attacking and ruining a perpetrator’s home is likely to affect other persons who have not participated in the criminal act or acts in question.
War is easier to start than to end. The long term objective is what? You will also have to look at yourself in a mirror hopefully for a long time…