Russian news channels have just shown footage of 438 Ukrainian officers, NCOs and soldiers who have surrendered to Russian forces in the Rostov region. They had requested safe passage, which was granted to them, and they abandoned their weapons and crossed the border. They appeared exhausted and weak and they were immediately washed, given dry clothes and, when needed, provided medical treatment by the Russian military. Those who made the request (so far about 180) were then bussed back to the Ukraine while the rest have been given temporary accommodations in a tent city built by the Russian military. According to the Russian Border Guard Service, many more Ukrainian servicemen are currently negotiating their surrender in similar terms. The Russian side has already declared that every man will be given the choice to be returned to the Ukraine or remain in Russia and that nobody will be forcibly repatriated or detained.
As I have recently mentioned in a post, I strongly believe that these Ukrainians deserve to be treated with compassion and kindness as they were used as canon-fodder by the junta in Kiev. There is, of course, a sweet irony that the very same folks who recently were waving Ukie flags and promising to fight the evil Moskals are now seeking refuge with the very same Moskals, but the Russians are right not to rob it in. Let the Ukies draw their own conclusions.
The Saker
Saker Message:
In a war situation the proper solution is to intern them for the duration.
They should be interned, not allowed to go back. Reunite them with their mothers in front of cameras, document their safety, then send them home.
It’s a huge propaganda tool if used intelligently.
Demanding they leave functioning equipment also is imperative.
Proverbs 25:21-22:
“If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.22 In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you”.
–The Word of the Lord
It is quite likely that the metaphor or figurative expression here used is drawn from the method of smelting metals in ancient times. In the furnace not only was there a bed of hot coals upon which the ore was placed, but also on top of the ore was placed a bank of red-hot coals. The heaping of coals on top of the ore helped to soften it and thus to separate the metal from the dross. So, by doing kind deeds to an enemy in need, when he would be most likely to appreciate it, one can hope to soften the enemy, make him feel remorse and shame, and may even bring out the good that is in him. That this heaping of coals of fire upon the head of an enemy is not intended to produce an evil effect but a beneficial one is apparent from what the apostle Paul says right after quoting this very proverb. His next words are: “Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.”—Rom. 12:20, 21. In addition, there is the comfort and satisfaction of the concluding words of Proverbs 25:22: “And God Himself will reward you.” This promise in itself shows that the “red-hot coals” are not intended to harm the enemy nor do they indicate that one would gloat over the enemy’s discomfort. If we do what is noble and right, then whether others appreciate it or not, and whether we personally benefit from it or not, directly or immediately, we can be certain that God takes note of it and will reward us in His due time.
Source:
http://www.Watchtower Journal – http://www.JW.org
http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/135930-militares-ucrania-asilo-rusia
It will be interesting to see what happens to those soldiers who chose to return to Ukraine. Will they be welcomed as heroes or traitors? Will they be sent straight back to the front?
Photos and article of Ukrainian soldiers cross to Russia for refuge:
http://rt.com/news/177740-ukrainian-military-russia-refuge/
Taking a look at the situation in toto, it’s hard to escape the stark contrast between not “just” Good and Evil, but truly stupid, short-term “thinking” and intelligence. The hunter (guess who) not only became the quarry a while back without even knowing it, but keeps entangling itself in its own net, and drawing the strings ever tighter. ;~)
One arrow can make an enemy fight through 10 days of starvation.
One ounce of kindness can crush his will to fight and end war.
A good commander knows when to execute justice but also show mercy. Winning the respect of your enemy is the hardest battle.
In their shell-shocked delirium, their humble thankfulness that their meager lives have been spared their own stupidity will settle in these thoughts and emotions deeper than any western propaganda or patriotic feelings. A Russian coffee is still a coffee, and I don’t think the Ukies will be complaining after 2 months of GRAD destruction.
yes, they can get tired, have no food etc, surrender, get washed and cleaned up by the Russian, then bused back …. to.. er fight again. Not smart mr Russia… i agree with the earlier poster.. intern them for the duration
Expect another false flag event / escalation from the American side, as this marks the beginning of the end of the current phase of the joint Russian / Ukrainian military/intelligence operation. Kiev and whatever oligarchs are in play will shift gears, a new army will have to be created in the west of the state formation known as Ukraine. Or – under a pretext, NATO forces will attempt to enter Kiev, Kharkiv and Odessa.
Sometimes the moral thing to do is also the most savvy. The commander of the 72nd had this to say, according to
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/743493
“Honestly, we did not expect such an attitude to us. They treated us like brothers so to speak. Those who issue us orders at the top are lying when they say that we are fighting against Russia. None of the Russians did even frown upon us. They understand that we are in trouble and that we are just the hostages of this situation….
They gave us food. We took a bath for the first time in the past month. Then, we were given clean clothes and had rest. I am sure that those who have been through this carnage once will never go to this slaughter again,” Major Dubinyak stressed.
He saved the lives of his soldiers and said to them, “Now, let them fight themselves and send their sons to die. We have had enough.”
“If they think we are dead, they should not count on us any longer,” Dubinyak stressed.
He admitted the hostilities in southeast Ukraine had turned into a civil war.
“Of course, I do not know how I am going to look into the eyes of the mothers of my dead boys. But what I know for sure is that this civil war should be stopped. I have seen the tears of the local people and the suffering of my boys. I am fed up with that. The most important thing is that we are alive. We are going to sort other things out when we return home.”
I do fear for his life when he returns though.
Let them go back and spread the word of how they were defeated and treated. Internment camps? Instead, Why not spend resources on the settlement of the refugees inside Russia?
Internment camps tend to be a burdensome and long term solution. Besides, it appears no one is taking very many prisoners in the actual combat. Shades of Vietnam.
Let the conscripts go home to tell their friends, families, reporters, MPs, relatives overseas, neighbors, about their experience in the East, about how their generals abused them and left them to starve without any weapons.
According to Col. Cassad, the internment is not possible for RF because this not an “official” war.
And there is also indications that some of the returning Ukies are actually joining the militia to defend the people.
I hope so.
They certainly have a grudge to settle with Kiev and would add some battle-ready troops to an army of militia on the move.
Those electing to return to Ukraine and their families will not be allowed to speak of their experience – They are prosecuted as deserters in the heat of battle :
From the RT /RIA Novosti report:
”It was so bad back there. Hot, and so many deaths and bad things,” another one, Dmitry, said. “Folks can rest here. They gave us a chance to wash, gave us new clothes. We are thankful.”
“We have been in those fields for more than six months and are very tired,” he added.
”Another one, Yaroslav, said he wishes to go back to his family in Ukraine.”
“I want to do something peaceful. My contract expired four months ago,” he explained.
……
”The flow of deserters from the ranks of Ukrainian Army and National Guard seems to be increasing amid the escalating violence in Donets and Lugansk Regions, where Kiev is fighting against armed anti-government militias.”
In late July 41 Ukrainian troops fled to Russia to escape fighting in eastern Ukraine. They are now being prosecuted in Ukraine for deserting in the heat of battle.”
What will happen when General Winter arrives?
It will be a flood of Ukies.
Anon Mongoose
To those who suggest they be detained rather than allowed to return: Why?
First it just becomes another accusation against Russia.
Second, why not let them go home and tell their friends how much fun it is to fight in a war. Let them tell their fellow soldiers that if you are forced to surrender, it will be ok.
That is worth something too, will reintroduce the “humanity” of the “other”, which is needed before any negotiation can happen. And that’s the only way it will end.
Nora, that is a great comment. I have the impression that the commander was prepared to accept whatever happens upon his return because now he knows he is acting with integrity.
Important news for the info war
Voice of Sevastopol has opened an English version of its site, http://en.voicesevas.ru/
Andreas Walsh wrote:
“In a war situation the proper solution is to intern them for the duration.”
I believe ( ;-) ) the point below (and even if not, it makes sense) is that, as Russia is not at war with Ukraine, it has no legal right to hold these people (and unlike USA/NATO/EU, Russia actually has respect for legalities).
From About the “captives”
5. Why do the soldiers of the junta allowed to go to Ukraine? Explain at this stage, the conflict is not officially recognized by the war (although in Europe now often speaks that this is war), so Russia has no legal grounds they shall not Intern.
Not in the fact that in April of this year, the power scenario in Ukraine was blocked, so Russia has strenuously travesty that to what is happening has nothing, even though all parties to the conflict know that it is not. But these are the rules of the game.
Regarding Larchmonter 445:
“It’s a huge propaganda tool if used intelligently.” :
Also, from the same link above:
3. Those who chose Russia, will provide opportunities for temporary asylum on the territory of one of the numerous refugee camps in the Rostov region. This situation is very important for the militias, because it is convenient to use in advocacy aimed at the soldiers of the junta, saying look, you can just cross the border, throwing technique, to hand over the weapons will be removed from the hardships of war, and there is a loophole – throwing technique, to surrender their weapons and flee to Ukraine.
In the short time remaining in Russia, the soldiers and officers of the junta will give rich propaganda material. We will try to send to the camp of man, that he talked with ordinary soldiers of the junta on the topic what they think about what is happening. Truth is not a fact that allowed for the remaining works closely Bloody Gebnya.
Bless the Russians for doing the right thing. The Ukrainians biggest enemy is in Kiev with the oligarchs gangsters.
Russia – keep doing the right thing.
This treatment is beyond fair, but I can easily see it being abused. Might be good to make a point that Ukie soldiers get to surrender like this only once.
Just a little bit of topic:
What do you think about the NATO manoeuvre “Rapid Trident 14″ taking place in Ukraine from 11th to 28th September? Is it just a bit of sabre-rattling or is it more than that?
Keywords: About 1300 soldiers from 16 nations shall participate as planned by the US European Command in Stuttgart; to take place in the military training area at Javoriv near Lviv.
http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/940649.nato-bereitet-manoever-in-ukraine-vor.html
http://terraherz.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/aktuell-nato-manover-operation-rapid-trident-14-findet-am-11-28-september-statt/
Dozens of more links in German, but not much in English:
http://cnduk.org/get-involved/events/item/1943-no-to-nato-protest-at-the-summit
2 months in the making!
What a great victory of the NAF!
“43”You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44″But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”
Mathew, 5:43 following
Loving your enemies makes you treating them with greatest respect, spare their lives whenever possible, giving them a way out to live on when they stop threatening you and help them when they are’ot posing a threat any more.
This will lead to a situation where the hatred of the enemy will have no reason to exist any more as the enemy realizes that his anger is fuelled with baseless lies and prejudices.
In this way, you can turn an enemy into a friend – by loving him, treating him (or her) the way you’d like to be treated if you were in his place. You can do so even when you fight him.
My first reaction was that these troops should be interned but this plan to let them return to Ukraine is clearly a better idea.
First, the worry is that they will be sent back into combat. The Ukrainian command can’t be that stupid. These men would create an immediate discipline problem for the naive troops. They would not share with them any enthusiasm for more fighting.
Second, as they return to civilian life they will be a source of information about the reality of fighting in E Ukraine. The lies in the Ukrainian press are extreme and many people are quite oblivious to what is happening there. Alternatively, the Uke authorities may prosecute them for desertion. This would also be very dangerous to the government. It would just create an issue that an antiwar movement could use. It would also make further conscription that much more difficult.
In short, it is politically wise to let these soldiers return to Ukraine.
I think that a recent past which involves “waving flags and fighting the “Moskals”” is a given fact, and understood when one of these conscripts or Nazi-posers surrenders. It’s also a given that they must not be brutalized, tortured, killed, etc. It has nothing to do with who “deserves it” or not (no one “deserves” to be killed if one is a Christian as many of the Militia are) ..But the brutality must be allowed to find an end. Because the Militias’ and the Russian cause is the morally correct one, they have to be the stronger, and forgo the instinct of revenge. It WILL pay off, one way or another
I’m sorry but I have to disagree. Psychopaths can no more be reasoned with than a rabid dog and must be put down whenever found.
There is going to be some cognitive dissonance when these Ukie troops -who have seen the ruthless lie of the American plan in their treatment by Russia – return and they are told in savage words that they are the “victims” of “Moskal propaganda”, and that they should fill themselves with hate and go back to the front to kill everyone in the Donbas. Unfortunately many will do just that..but some wont..and every time it will be some few more. Kiev already has a reality problem. This will just compound it for them
I agree with many other comments , they all should be “gently” interned for the duration and ivestigated about their conduct of war.
No butcher should return home without punishment
As far as I know Russia is not at war with ulrainian people but with the US ermpire.
Inducing the enemy to surrender is difficult. One reason for the sudden collapse of Germany in WW1 was that the soldiers finally started surrendering in large numbers. They finally believed that they would not be shot during the act of surrender. The Japanese in WWII never stopped believing this, with reason. So they fought on. Releasing the regular army to go home is intelligent. Not so if they are National Guard. There has been a lot of wishful thinking about this for many days. They were surrounded but fought on.
It is a shame that Russia could not hold onto them until the war is over and those who sent them there are locked up for war crimes.
I am not saying that out of malice. Just that it would be awful if they returned home and the Interior Ministry did not treat them kindly. Also, they will no doubt be forced to go back to the frontline, no doubt within the next few days.
I understand that many of the ukies were drafted and didn’t have any good options, but they should indeed be interned until Kiev collapses under the weight of its own stupidity. I am also curious if there were any mercenaries or Right Sektor bastards present. I hope they will not be given any quarter. Lastly, the fsb should thoroughly debrief the hell out of these guys and arrest anyone who has violated the Geneva conventions. What about the Militia POWs that were tortured according to Strelkov?
This mass surrender is covered nowhere in the West excepted the BBC..
Interesting interview with Gennady Timchenko who is on the U.S. sanctions list because he is one of “Putin’s friends”. He talks about the Western sanctions, his businesses and his social life. – “Timchenko: Everything has to be paid for, and acquaintance with top officials as well”
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/743432
Q: “I think the White House hopes all of you – those who cannot travel abroad and those who cannot board jets – will get together some day and will go to the Kremlin to beg for a softening of its position on Ukraine.”
A: “Oh no, this is out of the question! Vladimir Putin proceeds from Russia’s interests in any situation. And that’s it. There can be no ‘compromise solutions’ in that sphere. No one of us will ever argue the issue. We’ve some financial difficulties because of sanctions, of course, but these trifles just don’t compare with the scope of tasks faced by the entire country.”
They are trying to spin this on the usual pro-Ukie and BBC Twitter feeds as a possible ‘psyop’ but it’s fairly clear Kiev is spinning a humiliating surrender into some sort of moral victory, perhaps by implying the soldiers will be sent back to the front. Here’s hoping the Ukies being sent back home know how to hide or take a different route where they won’t get instantly picked up by SBU for court martial or torturous interrogation as soon as they leave rebel-held territory.
I strongly agree with Andreas Walsh (15:08) and Larchmonter445(15:14) said.
The Russians should not miss the opportunity to make beautiful and useful propaganda.
RT video [03:28] (in English):
Over 400 Ukrainian soldiers flee to Russia, ask for refuge
Excerpt (02:00 – 02:14):
(Ukrainian soldier in the field):
“Hi to Poroshenko. F*** him!
“This is the armour our army is using. This is the kind of junk they send us. What it is made from – metal? I think he made it himself, using a can. F****** businessman.”
Does anyone have confirmation of this news?
DONETSK, August 04, 22:13 /ITAR-TASS/. Over 700 Ukrainian government troops have surrendered to the local militias in the eastern Donetsk (Shakhtersk) region, the Novorossiya news agency said on Monday.
http://theother14.wordpress.com/
Humorous psychological operations done right:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eix7QcbP6zY#t=17
More evidence showing protest actions against the Kiev regime:
“blood” on Ukraine flags along boulevard in Kharkiv
http://anna-news.info/node/19514
When is a surrender not a surrender?
Here is how Reuters reports:
Ukrainian troops cross into Russia to avoid fighting, talks underway
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/04/us-ukraine-crisis-east-idUSKBN0G40YI20140804
(Reuters) – Ukraine said on Monday it was in talks with Moscow over the return of 311 Ukrainian soldiers and border guards who had been forced by fighting with separatists to cross into Russia, but Russian border authorities said the troops were seeking asylum.
And Itar-Tass, citing Novorossiya News agency, has it as unconfirmed that 700 has surrendered in eastern Donetsk
Militias report surrender of over 700 Ukrainian troops in Donetsk region
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/743514
…….
What to make of this – these 2 resignations?
Ukraine’s security chief submits resignation — media
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/743496
KIEV, August 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Andriy Parubiy, the secretary of the Ukrainian national security and defense council, allegedly submitted resignation two weeks ago, a Ukrainian online edition reported on Monday.
And
Yatssenyuk, did he?
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/742187
Anon Mongoose
While the BBC is in fact covering the surrender of these Ukies, note their headline in the RSS feed:
Ukrainian Troops enter Russia in clash
Nothing about them surrendering or seeking asylum – it almost sounds like they got there by mistake because they took the wrong fork in the road!
The monolithic AngloZionist media is a sight to behold – Josef Goebbels would be extremely jealous.
What is the international law about internment? If the eastern rebels are not recognised as an independent state, the Ukrainian government is just fighting an internal rebellion. Unless there’s a war declared between states recognised by Russia, it can not intern Ukrainian troops who stray over it’s border – just return them. It appears that the Russians are adhering to strict legality.
Summary of Ukraine government allied forces. Does not include seven cargo planes lost in resupply of the 24th, 72nd and 79 brigades:
http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2014/08/03/total-losses-of-the-punishers-in-the-donbass-in-the-period-from-2-may-2014-to-2-august-2014/
I think the majority of those soldiers returned after such decent treatment by Russia is very positive PR and “psyops”. The majority will now doubt the junta and the zionist hate propaganda they’ve been fed. They will tell their friends and relatives about their positive experience. Some might even join the growing dissent movement. Most will probably have little enthusiam for junta war making and terrorism. The junta will have to view all of these returning soldiers with suspicion, which will further degrade their already very poor morale. So in the end, the negatives of the few soldiers who might maintain their brainwash and continue fighting for the ZPC/NWO nazi quislings will be more than offset by the positives of those that don’t.
And as a bonus for Russia, they wont have to maintain internment facilities for the soldiers with the expense, manpower requirements and extra logistics. Also, if Russia did detain the soldiers, one can bet the Jewish zionist media and ZPC/NWO regime quislings would go bonkers spinning the internment into something it wasn’t.
вот так
The story about the 700 troops surrendering appears to be unconfermed, probably false. Strelkov has said he has no such information.
Regarding the Ukranian troops returning to combat, they could be required to sign a parole before release: Per Wikipedia: Parole is “the agreement of persons who have been taken prisoner by an enemy that they will not again take up arms against those who captured them, either for a limited time or during the continuance of the war” It was used by General Grant at Vicksburg to release some 29,000 Confederates back into the population, so his troops didn’t have to feed or guard them. If the paroled troops return to combat, they can theoretically be shot as escaped prisoners, and definitely never released again.
They will all make their individual decisions, the main thing is for Ru to do right. If so, things will usually work out.
Most of war is propaganda, in the good sense, and morale. Losing 400 troops is a massive humiliation for Kiev.
Here’s how Rothschild owned Reuters have spun events to suit anglozion propaganda purposes:
Headline:
“Ukrainian troops cross into Russia to avoid fighting”
Kiev: Ukraine said it was in talks with Moscow over the return of 311 Ukrainian soldiers and border guards who had been forced by fighting with separatists to cross into Russia, but Russian border authorities said the troops were seeking asylum.
Both sides seemed set to use the fate of the troops to score propaganda points as Ukrainian government forces extended the steady gains it has made against the pro-Russian separatists since a Malaysian airliner was downed over a rebel-held area on July 17.
…
See full article (republished by smh.com.au) here –
http://www.smh.com.au/world/ukrainian-troops-cross-into-russia-to-avoid-fighting-20140805-100gk7.html
I have to go with the argument this is the best way to deal with the situation for a number of reasons:
Morally right thing to do;
Better than the best propaganda money could buy;
Keeping them as POWs would be exploited as propaganda by the A-Z media, Lord knows what lies the ukies would spin;
The number of them going back to the front would be inconsequential in these numbers, at least in their eyes, and;
Maybe Saker or someone could elaborate, but I believe forcibly interning the soldiers would have legal implications for Russia vis a vis UN charter, treaties, etc, regarding their status as a participant in the hostilities, and I’m wondering what their actual obligations are as things stand. Add the cost, I assume that’s a headache Russia doesn’t want or
need.
While some or many of the returnees may be arrested or forced back to the front lines, or have other issues with the local population and nazi junta I can’t begin to guess at, I’m sure if there’s any from the smaller villages, where resistance to the war is growing, their stores will only further turn the population against the fascist thugs. Hopefully this will change the opinion of those inclined to see Russia as a villain begin to see them as a neighbor they can live with, at least. I don’t know enough about the dynamics to say any more than that, maybe someone can explain, offer a link, or Saker maybe you could write a post on this if you haven’t already? Western Ukrainian opinion of Russia that is. Could acts like the treatment of these soldiers and allowing them to return have any effect on that in a larger sense?
In a world being drowned in murder and hatred by the Judeo-Christian Western Empire of Eternal Exceptionalism, the treating of Ukrainian prisoners well is a moral duty and will be a beacon of hope to decent people. Of course it will be hard for those in the West to learn the truth, as the evil filth of the Western MSM will lie their heads off, as ever, but bit by bit, acting bravely and humanely Russia may yet lead the world out of darkness. As Pepe Escobar notes, most of the world is sick to death of the Real Evil Empire subverting, interfering, meddling and attacking all other states on the planet, with huge loss of innocent life, while proclaiming itself to be moral perfection. The evil of Western arrogance and racist contempt must end, one way or another.
FWIW: perhaps over the rocket attacks on civilians, left without power and water
REUTERS BREAKING:
Russia calls for emergency meeting of UNSC on humanitarian situation in Ukraine
and @
Zerohedge: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-05/putin-orders-preparation-retaliatory-sanctions
Putin Orders Preparation Of Retaliatory Sanctions
It seems Putin is coming through with his promise:
And Russia issued a statement that US will feel ‘tangible losses’ from ‘destructive, myopic’ sanctions.
*PUTIN ORDERS GOVT TO PREPARE RETALIATORY SANCTIONS: RIA
*PUTIN ORDERS GOVT TO READY STEPS IN RESPONSE TO SANCTIONS: IFX
*PUTIN: RETALIATORY MEASURES SHOULDN’T HURT RUSSIA CONSUMERS:IFX
And this reported by Zerohedge
No Fly Zone for European Airlines in Sanction Retaliation
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-05/russia-plans-airspace-blockade-european-flyovers-sanctions-retaliation
Costs could be considerable…
”Blocking flights by Western airlines over Siberia would add an average an hour and a half to the travel time, Oleg Panteleev, head of the analytical department of the Aviaport agency told Vedomosti. It will result in higher fuel and labor costs, and more strain on technical equipment.
Vedomosti quoted one source as saying a ban could cost carriers including Lufthansa, British Airways and Air France 1 billion euros ($1.3 billion) over three months. Restrictions would lead to longer flights, higher fuel use and other additional costs.
Lufthansa said it operates about 180 flights a week through Siberian airspace but declined further comment, as did British Airways.”
confirmed by RT
http://rt.com/news/178192-putin-sanctions-west-response/
”On Tuesday, Vedomosti daily reported Russia was considering limiting, or even completely blocking European flights to Asia that cross Siberia, in response to EU sanctions that caused Aeroflot subsidiary, Dobrolet, to suspend flights on Monday.”
You think beyond tit-for-tat?
Anon Mongoose
posted August 4th on Youtube:
Down With Military Moblization (from Ukraine with English Subtitles)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRwsG1DlEaQ
The anti-war movement is spreading across Ukraine. Wish it would come alive in the US once again.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/mounting-opposition-to-conscription-in-ukraine-armed-forces-spreads-across-the-country/5394800