For a couple of days now, I have posted various items showing the large number of casualties amongst the Ukie forces fighting against Novorussia, and I have observed with some amusement how many of you have expressed doubts about the veracity of these figures. Today Nora drew my attention to a short video of a Ukie army recruiting officer being confronted by a crowd of civilians, mostly women, mostly mothers. The video is a few days old, but this version is subtitled in English, so please watch it now:
Now, there are a couple of thing I would like to share with you after this video.
First, believe me, these women are aware of the terrifying rumours which speak of casualty figures way higher then those mentioned officially. Keep in mind that a lot of Ukie soldiers simply disappear either torn into unrecoverable small pieces of meat and bones, or hastily buried into mass graves by their own officers to cover up their deaths, either quietly killed and secretly buried by the civilians of Novorussia (I have seen a video of Ukie recruits who say that they are terrified of the local civilians who smile at them and then kill them as soon as they get an opportunity).
Second, and this what a lot of you are missing, the Ukie and Novorussian militaries are dramatically different. Let me explain:
Ukrainian military:
The Ukrainian military has been completely neglected by all the governments in power since 1991. Do you remember the condition of the Russian military during the First Chechen war? Now imagine taking that military, and instead of turning it around, you let it further degrade for another 20 years. That would be more or less what the Ukie military is today. Add to this that most officers and soldiers do not want to fight. Besides fighting a war they personally don’t want (again, not all Ukrainians are Right Sector Nazi fanatics!), they are also literally hungry (they eat snakes now) and totally under equipped. The command and control system of the Ukie military is more or less dead. The ONLY advantage of the Ukies is the sheer number of aircraft, tanks and artillery, and that really is a purely quantitative advantage.
Novorussian military:
It is composed solely of volunteers. Even the partial mobilization decreed recently in Donetsk is a moral obligation: you are told you have to show up, but if you do not, nobody will get you. Second, there are a lot of very experienced soldiers and officers on the Novorussian side. As as a direct result of that the following is true:
That is literally true. Even if it is exactly the same Grad MLRS. In fact, many, possibly most Grads used by the Novorussians are trophies taken away from the Ukies. But whereas the Uky artillery almost exclusively shoots in more or less random way in the general direction of the other side, hitting only civilians, the Novorussians use each Grad with devastating effectiveness choosing the correct munition, landing it with surgical accuracy right on top of the Ukie positions.
Then look at the footage of Novorussian fighters: a lot of them are 30+ to 40+ years old group. These are folks who have already spent a lot of time in the military, often with experience of war, and who know their job very very well. Yes, it is true that the Novorussians still need many more of such experiences “wolves of war” as they are called in Russian, but they already have a lot of them. So on one hand you have clueless but young guys, and on the other, older, but experienced pros who know how to survive.
Furthermore, you can look at any video shot on the Novorussian side, and it is clear that their morale is extremely high. Most of you have probalby seen the footage made a few days ago of the Vostok Battalion on Saur Mogila where the local commander, Samurai, was preparing his men to go into battle to attack the Ukies in the southern cauldron and then the footage shows them jumping on their vehicles and going into battle. Sure, the guys were tired and serious, but also extremely motivated and impatient to resume the fight. The contrast with footage taken on the Ukie side could not have been stronger.
And then, let’s be honest about it, by now there are a lot of very experienced fighters from Russia in the Novorussian military. Again, these are older men, often with brand new gear, who appear to be either NCOs or officers and who are clearly very highly motivated.
Finally, the Ukies are lead by corrupt and incompetent generals, imagine Pavel Grachev, but even worse. The reports that the fighting Ukies absolutely hate and despise their commanders (not the direct commander, but the top brass, the generals) are all over the social media. On the other hand, you have folks like Strelov, Samurai, Motorola, Kedr, Khodakovskii and others of clearly are both very experienced and very talented. And, again, this is my personal opinion, but there is no doubt in my mind that these local commanders not only have all sorts of, shall way say, “advisers” from the Russia, but that the Russian military supports the Novorussians with intelligence and expertise (who do you guess was the first to detect the envelopment manover attempted by the Ukies along the Russian border?).
So this is in no way the fault of the Ukrainian foot solider who is, by all accounts, courageous, extremely strong willed and who will execute his mission in the toughest conditions. Just look at how long the poor Ukrainian soldiers in the Southern Cauldron have been resisting under absolutely nightmarish conditions! But in these circumstances the Ukies don’t stand a chance, and even though they do have an advantage in the open field by the sheer number of artillery, tanks and aircraft, as soon as they get into closer combat the Novorussians make minced meat out of them.
The true figures are hidden by the junta
Remember this: if Novorussia has something like 6,5 million people, the entire Ukraine has somewhere 40 million people. So what does the junta do? They spread out the casualties. The Ukies are now conducting their THIRD partial mobilization (penalty for refusing to serve: 5 years in jail). They are taking young men as cannon fodder form all over the Ukraine, from Lvov to Vinnitsa to Chernigov and they send them to Novorussia to get butchered by an army and population which fights with the energy of despair and which fights on its own land.
This might shock you and I will get a lot of nasty comments for saying this, but I personally think that the Ukie casualty figures are grossly UNDER-estimated and that when this horrible civil war comes to and end and this issue is professionally investigated we will find that the real figures of killed Ukrainians will be way higher than even the highest figures quoted today.
I think that as it typically the case in a dictatorship, the fact that the 5 state owned TV stations say exactly the same nonsense does not prevent the other information from seeping in in all sorts of creative manners: the Internet, of course, but also relatives abroad, the Russian media, leaks from the government structures, etc. And then you have the number of neighbours who are being told that they son “died like a hero for his country” (and, typically, that his body was not recovered) who then talk to you in the evenings, around a kitchen table, when nobody is around. So for all the Ukie official propaganda the poor women on the video above are absolutely terrified that if they military is allowed to run a conscription locally their sons and husbands will also “died a hero’s death”. Hence their desperate rage.
Us and them?
This is a truism, but I will say this again here: the vast majority of the soldiers fighting against Novorussians are Russian themselves, in the sense that they speak Russian, they are not Nazis at all and they are not the crazy Euromaidanites who started all this shit – they are simple country or small town folks who watched it all on the TV. Sure, they probably hated Yanukovich, but no more than they hated Timoshenko or Yushchenko, and while they feel Ukrainian that does not mean that they have this satanic russophobia so typical of the real Ukie Nazis. Not even most of the National Guard are hardened “Ukie Interahamwe”. That scum is mostly found in the deathsquads of Kolomoiskii and Liashko. In those units you truly have the scum of the earth, pathologically evil sickos who will crucify babies and strangle pregnant women with a telephone cord. This is not a typical Ukrainian thing, by the way, you will find a minority of such sociopaths in any country and society. The difference is that in a civilized and normal society you typically find these types in jail, whereas in the current Ukraine turned Banderastan they are in positions of power. But I am absolutely sure that you could find the proportion of maniacal thugs amongst Russians, Belgians, Peruvians or even Eskimos. That is just a sad part of the human nature. The scary thing is that in Banderastan they get to rule the rest of society.
I take immense solace in the fact that Russians clearly understand that, even the Novorussians do. I just watched a video about 40+ Ukrainian border guards who were terribly shot up by the Novorussians and who offered to surrender in exchnage for a safe passage to Russia. Not only did the Novorussians accept that, but they also fed them, treated their wounds (often terrible ones), then brought them across the border where the Russian military treated them again and then let them chose between staying in Russia or returning home (and risk being investigated by the Nazis for “desertion”). Those who wanted to return did so on Russian military aircraft.
A few commentators said that this was stupid on the Russian part. I categorically disagree. If these guys had been Kolomoiskii’s thugs, then yes, it would have been stupid. But these were basically decent guys, used as canon fodder, in other words, victims. And I am proud that the Russians also understood that and acted with kindness and compassion towards them.
To those of you who believe that the Ukie Nazis might get such a sweet deal, I can reassure you – forget it. Russia is Russia and war is war. In Chechnia for example, when caught the Wahabis were given a 10-15 min one on one “interview” with a a few Paratrooper or Spetsaz NCOs which rapidly established their values as prisoners in an extremely unpleasant dialog for the Wahabi and then, unless the Russians thought they had a high value prisoner, they would be summarily executed and buried. I have no doubt whatsoever of what the Novorussians do when the catch a member of a Ukie death squad and I can assure you that they will not treat his wounds or allow him to survive longer than 30min max. But, again and again, the vast majority of the Ukies butchered today are not members of death squads and even though they are clearly fighting on the wrong side, they have very little choice and they are therefore also first and foremost victims who deserve our compassion.
The Ukrainian tragedy
The Russian word безобразие (bezobrazie) is often translated into English as ugliness, of deformity or even scandal or chaos. But that is not a very good rendering of its meaning. Bezobrazie is composed of the prefix “bez” which means “without” and then the word “obraz” which means “image” or “type” or even “character”. What bez-obraz-ie means the “absence of a coherent image” or, literally, the “loss of your own identity”. This is what happened to the Ukrainian people, they lost their own real identity and they let it be replaced by a ugly, xenophobic, murderous and hate-filled “mask” of sorts, which is not at all what the real Ukrainian culture used to be. This is immensely sad, and I want to hope that this horror can be healed. But in the meantime, Russians need to make sure that they do now allow themselves to be changed by this war, they need to make sure that the Russian people retain their own spiritual and cultural “obraz” in the sense of “identity”. This is also one crucially important reason why they should continue to treat the Ukie soldiers with compassion and kindness: Russian compassion can be a powerful weapon against Ukie hatred and maybe even an impulse for the Ukrainian people to recover their true identity.
The Saker
Mobilization in Nikolaev – police vs people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8ymxSggOVs
The difference between Americas and Russians, an interview with Putin, where he captures the very thing you mentioned Saker, about the difference in philosophy of life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW2NUD8KUFw
A truly amazing post. Thank you Saker.
Saker, this is one of you very best editorials.
The moral qualities of war are rarely understood outside of professional circles.
By expressing Compassion balanced by Wisdom, you are showing us that the ultimate win is to show your enemies mercy when it is warranted, unlike the USSA satanists who only believe in violence and death.
The modern USSA is like the Roman empire, that creates a desert and calls it peace. Like the Roman Empire, they will be destroyed by their own moral corruption.
You are truly a man of God, Slava Boga.
@ Anonymous Sorry, I’m italian, from ROME. I stay on the side of Novorossiya but I totally disagree with your considerations about the Roman Empire. I invite you to reflect about the reason why the Roman Empire lasted for 1000 years; it was not (only) for its military strenght, otherwise you can’t explain why the big Empire built by Alexander the Great lasted just one generation. The Roman Empire joined a lot of different peoples into one big Nation (or a Big Market, if you prefer) giving them all an unique Law, justice, market etc and in the meantime respecting their own religion, language, traditions and so on… The Peoples of the Roman Empire were happy to belong to the Empire (except for the Jews…..), anyone of them could become an official of the Empire… do you know that many Roman Emperors were not roman, and not even italic?
Clarified what above, many many compliments to the Saker for this editorial
Thank you. This is very important. This is an abiding dimension of Russia’s intention for Ukraine, to heal it. There is no doubt that the ugliness will recede but it will take a long time and will be extremely painful. The society is being ripped apart by the US and the EU.
The Russian prosecutors have already taken 500,000 witness testimonies at the refugee centers. Perhaps Obama, Ashton et. al. will be joining Poroshenko and Yatsenuk at the tribunal.
Saker,
This is a repeat of Bosnia.
The propaganda at the time was this:
“The Serbs are evil & committing genocide against all Muslims.”
Now putting aside the fact that thousands of Bosnian Muslims were fighting alongside Bosnian Serbs against the Sarajevo regime:
When the Bosnian Serb Army was kicking the shit out of Izebegovich’s fascist Army, Muslim civilians & fighters alike would flee cross the Drina into Serbia, seeking refuge.
Fleeing Serbs in Bosnia by seeking help & sanctuary from Serbs in Serbia.
Now fast forward to today, switch from Serbian to Russian & there you go.
Meezer
Serbian wrote:
“Bezobrazye” most of teh time means lack of character, rudness, shamefulness, at least in serbian. Example: just look at USA and ‘international community’, the way they behave is bezobrazye. Big time.
Very good video! The main message is that, “He” who started all this mess on Maidan , should go and fight this war but leave our kids out of it.
Saker,
on moral/justice grounds I can’t agree with you. If a Ukie has the choice of going to jail for 5 years or killing Russians and he chooses to kill Russians, then, sorry, he deserves the worst.
But from a sort of PR/social coherence kind of perspective I guess it makes sense to be kind to them.
Sorry, but this is total dribble. The Kiev side can sustain effectively infinite casualties, because Kiev is ruled not even by the neo-Nazis, but by the EU and USA- and they see every person alive in Ukraine as mere cannon-fodder, no matter what ‘side’ they support.
It is public knowledge, but amongst the facts mysteriously depreciated here, that over the last few days hundreds of EU and USA military advisers have entered Kiev- many under the cover of so-called ‘investigation’ teams (for the downed airliner). Their first act was to re-arrange the stooge ‘government’. They have informed Kiev military leaders that the West will allow for indefinite civilian victims, so the war methods should focus on terror and destruction.
Now Kiev’s current armed forces can unleash ‘butcher squads’- teams of criminals with a long history of rape, torture and murder. They are responsible for front-line atrocities, but also running ‘secret police’ operations in captured territory. They literally break the will of most citizens in the areas they operate in.
And yet, NATO hasn’t even got started. The governments of the West are rushing through legislation to provide complete immunity for NATO linked fighters in Ukraine- an essential legal ‘nicety’ if NATO is to provide direct military assistance. Under UN Law, total immunity (against later war crime charges) can be issued by the Security Council (see Iraq), or by an agreement with the ‘legal’ government of the nation accepting the assistance of foreign fighters on its soil.
This idea that playing the ‘good guy’ with fighters from the enemy side wins any sort of victory is an abhorrent lie. It may be good for the soul if one can afford to do this, but it is always a sign of military weakness in such a situation like Ukraine. No-one remembers the losers of a war- or any of their ‘humanitarian’ actions, because history is written by the winners.
At this moment, supporters of Novorussia should be saying only one thing- “where is the direct intervention by Russia?”. Cheering the defenders as they are gradually eliminated, watching every village, town and city in Novorussia being turned into rubble, is just sick.
100% of the non-military effort should be an application of pressure on Putin to send in peace-keepers. By now, I have to have the greatest suspicion of anyone ‘on our side’ who doesn’t seem to see this.
Ukie military combat ineffective
US Nato will have trouble stuffing alqeada in
so…it will fall to the Merc co’s to bring in fighters
This conflict can drag on a long time as stalemate
right now….with lots of armor and brigade level equilment
trapped in the cauldron
Teams should be hitting and rushing units to get them
running or in chaos…capture equipment before it gets wasted
If Russias not sending….have to take it away from nazis
The cauldron is a packaged gift
Sort of Off Topic, and from way way above the battleground:
FORGIVENESS
What could you want forgiveness cannot give?
Do you want peace? Forgiveness offers it. Do you want happiness, a quiet mind,a certainty of purpose, and a sense of worth and beauty that transcends the world?
Do you want care and safety, and the warmth of sure protection always? Do you want a quietness that cannot be disturbed, a gentleness that never can be hurt, a deep, abiding comfort, and a rest so perfect it can never be upset?
All this forgiveness offers you, and more.
It sparkles on your eyes as you awake, and gives you joy with which to meet the day. It soothes your forehead while you sleep, and rests upon your eyelids so you see no dreams of fear and evil, malice and attack. And when you wake again, it offers you another day of happiness and peace.
All this forgiveness offers you, and more.
Lesson 122 ACIM
Saker:
I just wanted to say that I echo the words of Red and anonymous at 27 July, 2014 23:52. I look forward to the news you provide here, but it is your spiritual grounding that is the real treat.
Stay excellent, amigo.
The Novorussia fighters are the first white ‘terrorists’ that Americans (and Europeans) can relate to in a long time. Despite the demonization campaign on their big-time media debut, any press is good press. Remember, Strelkov, Motorola wedding in NY Times before MH17 – not too bad for a start. But I guarantee you, there are many young, left-leaning and also military/veteran people who are on their side.
And the best name for Poroshenko is ‘Pig’.
Divide and Rule
The dark force of this world has no power of its own. Its creating illusions, lies and distortions of history to make you all fight against each other. Making you Russians Ukrainians, Americans, Chinese, Orthodox, Catholics, Jews or Muslims. Making good people distrusting his brothers while the bad and greedy unite buying everybody with their money.
This war shall not end with the liberation of Novarussia nor the liberation of Kiev but after liberating that whole planet from the scum that is ruling it with its devilish illusions that divide you from me.
Q
God bless the mothers, wives and girlfriends. Do not let your men go die for Yatz, Yulla and all the scum in Kiev. The Uke military needs to go after these criminal oligarchs, mecenaries (Blackwater) and Uke intelligence backing the oligarch scum.
Putin and the Ukrainians in the East need to say that we do not want to fight with you but we will defend ourselves. A tragedy caused by the criminal USA nd EU.
Hello Saker,
Thank you for everything.
You said : “I watched a video about 40+ Ukrainian border guards who were terribly shot up by the Novorussians and who offered to surrender in exchnage for a safe passage to Russia”
If it’s possible or permissible would you be so kind as to post it?
Thank you
Anon:
The Kiev side can sustain effectively infinite casualties, because Kiev is ruled not even by the neo-Nazis, but by the EU and USA- and they see every person alive in Ukraine as mere cannon-fodder, no matter what ‘side’ they support.
The sick joke making the rounds right now is that Obama intends to fight Putin to the last Ukrainian. Sad, but reality.
@Carmel by the Sea:If it’s possible or permissible would you be so kind as to post it?
I don’t have it. It was on the evening news tonight on either Russia-TV or FirstChannel-TV, I am not sure which. Though chances are it will make it to YouTube in the next 24 hours as this was a widely covered event. There was also the case of a group of Ukie soldiers a week ago. I am sure we are going to see more and more of that kind of stuff as the regime begins to lose control.
Kind regards,
The Saker
PS: do you really live in Carmel, south of Monterey? I have been there only once, but I absolutely loved it. But then, I loved all of northern California. But Carmel and Bodega Bay were really unique.
@ Saker,
Q: But, again and again, the vast majority of the Ukies butchered today are not members of death squads and even though they are clearly fighting on the wrong side, they have very little choice and they are therefore also first and foremost victims who deserve our compassion.
R: I’m glad both the Novorussian as well as the Russian army treated these men in a professional matter.
Extending your line of thought, the same could be said about the German army towards the end of the war. These were mostly very young and very old men. Where they Nazis?
The Germans lost the war and National Socialism died with it, back in May 1945. That’s [almost] 70 years ago.
I see the Kiev junta as a bunch of fascists, the way fascists have acted throughout the ages.
The word ‘Nazis’ triggers an image of Germans [in my mind] not of the correct perpetrators of horror in Kiev. In other words, it always distracts and confuses and it takes time to readjust the German ‘image’ to the correct ‘fascist’ one.
This is an example of German station ZDF getting caught with sickening Propaganda purposely mistranslating
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpDAFt0pYo4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-WHsGG-hjY
For your German dept
What a beautiful thing is a touch of anarchy.
these people in the video are so rational and so compassionate. god bless them. i had to check my own reaction and then see it in contrast to the way these folks treated that army recruiter, they were in fact not kicking him out which would be my reaction. Instead they were calmly talking to him telling him in no uncertain terms no. but then i thought then if it was me i would be afraid and take off that uniform. but then i thought they probobly know that guy and even if they dont know him they dont want violence. theyre firm but theyre not about to kill the guy.
just amazing footage . it comfired everything positive about them that I thought.
I love the lady who said we dont want your war, your draft or your maidan.
all strength and power to them, I wish them health and security.
I just want as a counterpoint to your noble humanitarian sentiments to repeat the words of a Lugansk Self-Defense fighter provided by Gleb Bazov back on July 14. You are not wrong, but neither is he.
I want to say a few words about those Ukrainian soldiers who were allegedly forced to fight, and were told it’s either prison or the army. If you are given a choice between killing your own compatriots and being imprisoned, and you preferred to go and kill your compatriots, then you don’t deserve to be called human. The western regions twice overthrew the government, without consulting us; and so we thought – live however you like, and we will build our life the way we like. And that’s when you came and started killing us.
The only chance to keep a unitary state (and even then it’s science fiction), is to: prosecute the Junta, prohibit nationalist organization and to prosecute their leaders, refuse the association with the EU, join the Customs Union, and make Russian the second state language.
But I will tell you what’s really going to happen: Novorossiy will free DPR [Donetsk People’s Republic] and LPR and then arm volunteers in Kharkov, Zaporozhia, Odessa, Nikolayev, Dneptropetrovsk, Kherson, and Zakarpattia regions. And then there is no chance that the oligarchs and the nationalists will trial. I think that they understand this and will continue sending ever greater numbers of people to their death, all the while concealing the real statistics of the dead and the wounded.
Saker,
Thank you! When it is posted in youtube please post it.
And heartfelt thanks for the compassion you show others. I agreed with everything you wrote on this editorial.
I wish I lived in Carmel by the Sea in California.
I picked that name because they have my favorite houses in that village. Never been there but I have seen it in many photos and books.
It looks like a Village of Faeries., which makes it my favorite .
Thank you, be well and remember to take time to relax with your family:-)
Sincerely,
Carmel by the Sea
you said some very important things in this post saker, well done.
Humour:
SBU has uncovered another Russian plot. It seems Moscow put Poroshenko in power to destroy Ukraine, the spokesman says. Everything points in this direction. The fall of Yats, the downing of the Malaysian plane and the military disaster in the East. We have evidence. A conversation between Putin and Tymoshenko will be on youtube soon. She is a sheep mascerading as a wolf. Her tone of voice gives her away. Remember, she learned Ukrainian very late in life. In her heart she is still Russian.
Earlier, we told you Russia engineered Maidan. Moscow wants the EU/US to look bad. Everybody can see that. Maidan, Krim and the civil war had really unfortunate consequences for EU/US. They were foooled into introducing sanctions that will make Russia stronger. The whole Russian economy will become more independent very soon. Furthermore, Putin is more popular than ever in Russia.
Kolomoisky, an upright humanitarian and benefactor of Ukraine, who has been a thorn in the eye of Moscow, is now throwing his money away. He finances several batallions and they cost a lot. I fear he will become much poorer and that is not good for the SBU, I mean the country of Ukraine.
We also know that Russia has prepared the next social uprising. The mothers of the soldiers don’t know it, but they are secretely being directed from Moscow. Maidan 3.0 is around the corner and Russia will throw money on the demonstrators, as it has already done twice.
Obama has had several fits and important players have taken notice. His behavior has made many countries uneasy. Russia is clearly on a winning streak in world politics.
Authors comment: I am an amateur at literature and English is not my native language. A professional can do much much better. Please make us laugh. Evil departs instantly when we laugh at it.
carmel by the sea, like spanish bay, the rest of monterey and 17 mile drive is nice….if youre a billionaire elite scum bag like sergei brin or larry paige or a pretend liberal elite tool like clint eastwood who likes to fuck latinas but doesnt like to live among them.
the most expensive real estate on earth….
@ carmel by the sea, 0h52
—
I have found this video at the rusvesna site. I cannot understand what it says, but seems related with what you’re asking for.
http://rusvesna.su/news/1406500986
— Text translation with yandex —
28.07.2014 – 2:43
A video about more than 40 Ukrainian servicemen, who went to Russia from the war
TV channel RTR showed the plot of the Department of Ukrainian soldiers, most likely from the 93rd mechanized brigade, voluntarily left their positions and missed by militia on the territory of the Russian Federation.
.
Here is one embedded short video from euronews, mentioning the humanitarian corridor for wounded ukie soldiers to Russia;
http://www.euronews.com/2014/07/27/russia-opens-humanitarian-corridor-for-injured-ukrainian-troops-russian-state-/
But probably it is not the one Saker wrote about:
The US people are so brainwashed that they will stand by while you are murdered and cheer the killers. But just like the NAZI they will claim innocence when caught or circumstances catch up with them. I do not know the answer to this, I wish that I could help you.
May God and Victory be with you my brothers. Your sacrifice you will save us all.
Saker,
I suspect that now is a good time to make a suggestion that I hesitated to make earlier. Please consider including more coverage of Western Ukraine in your blog. After all, there is Truth there as well. Furthermore, the world is not understanding that Truth because it is being overwhelmed by the established media. It should be obvious that what is being presented in the media is NOT what the average person thinks in Western Ukraine, or almost anywhere else. So, it should also be obvious that I am not suggesting that you echo that media. Instead, you might invite responsible reporting by knowledgable people, and see what happens. I don’t know how else to do this, but your blog has developed enough credibility such that something like that simple approach might work.
Your comments in this post, in particular, should be well received by any thinking person. Conquering evil must be done by reason and principle. It is the psychopaths who employ emotion to manipulate and control. Although it is not the immediate topic here, anyone interested in a treatise on the matter should read: Political Ponerology, by Andrew Lobaczewski.
Please do not lose heart. russia has not yet fully recovered from bolshevic communism and the lost years(1989-1999). thus president putin must be careful and prudent. the struggle against fascist totalitarianism will be long and bitter. not just in ukraine and russia but everywher, from palestine to chicago. almost the whole world is occupied. the outcome is still in doubt. it has been this way before. please do not lose hope.
my favorite russian martial song is “the sacred war” available in many versions on you-tube. it may lift your spirits.
many thanks to mr. saker and the rest of you for standing up.
for what is right.
all best and good luck to you!
wm, maui
OT
No ‘rainbow families’: Canadian fertility clinic bans patient from using non-white donor
http://rt.com/news/175936-canada-fertility-woman-donor/
“A single Canadian woman, who sought in vitro fertilization in the only local clinic in Calgary, has been prohibited from using donors of a different ethnicity to avoid “creating rainbow families.”
Once the zios take control of a country, that country rapidly degenerates into the bigoted dysfunctional Israeli social model.
вот так
Thankyou Saker. I am doing everything I can to spread the message, though I am in Australia, too old to protest like I used to, e.g. Vietnam and Iraq, so it’s mainly G+ and Twitter.
@Saker et. @Everyone in the “loop” so to speak.
This may seem a bit OT, but after digesting the content and context that has been brought forth by Saker and the various contributors this may well fit into the broader picture.
While these horrific events seemingly unfold faster than light itself, please accept this as “food” for thought as well as nourishment for the body, mind and soul as we fight the forces of greed that seek to sap our collective dignity. Since there are far to many points that may be posted within the confines of this comment, we shall provide the “title” and link for your consideration…
Robert Steele: Rebuilding National Intelligence – A 12-Step Plan
http://www.phibetaiota.net/2014/07/robert-steele-rebuilding-national-intelligence-a-12-step-plan/
http://youtu.be/_mliI9asVlY
Great video about civil liberties in Russia. I guess such noble concepts of human rights are always easier to support in other peoples countries than your own.
It demonstrates how righteous Putin’s crusade against the Usian imperialists and their nazi scum in Ukraine is. Putin is a paragon of virtue without peer.
Russia should persist in supporting The cause of Novorossiya no matter how ugly and destructive this war gets. Because freedom to disobey your government is worth every pint of blood shed on ukieland
Is the lesson compassion wins the war or slows down the death machine, or is the lesson the peace is more stable if compassion is used during the war?
I can see this helping win hearts and minds later. It fits my suggestion that open leafletting and rewards to those quitting the battlefield is a very useful and justifiable approach.
Offer money, rewards for equipment surrendered, jobs if they come to the Russian border and surrender. Their mothers and relatives become a fifth column in the west working against Kiev.
Make it a big policy known to all Ukies. And the Russians can threaten prosecution if their relatives are brutalized.
In particular, the artillery crews who are bombarding the civilians of Novorossiya should be put on notice that war crimes will bring them to justice. Surrender and dismantle their equipment or turn it over to the militia and get a reward.
On the leaflets, images of old people, children, babies recently killed by their strikes.
How to get the leaflets to the Ukies?
Drones can drop them.
maybe try to get Kiev-based sociologist Volodymyr Ishchenko to contribute.
the voice we are not hearing from is civil society in opposittion to the nazi junta in kiev.
the reason for this is because you will be pressured and persecuted by nazi thugs if you speak out.
this is what Ishchenko basically points to as the environment in terms of opposition in thought and/or action in kiev now.
http://newleftreview.org/II/87/volodymyr-ishchenko-ukraine-s-fractures
he might be open to speaking his mind more because in the new left review interview above,
there is a very subtle tension going on with the interviewer very slightly trying to pidgin-hole him into making some sort of anti-russian anti-putin agitprop statement, which he does not.
“…..QUESTION:
In the run-up to the Donetsk and Luhansk separatist referendums that were held in mid-May,
it seemed as if Putin
was seriously contemplating an intervention
in eastern Ukraine—and the separatists were evidently hoping the Donbass would follow Crimea in joining the Russian Federation.
How likely was this scenario in the first place?
ANSWER Ishchenko:
I’m now not sure he was ever going to invade eastern Ukraine.
The Russian army regiments massed on the border were probably put there to dissuade Kiev from any attempt to take Crimea back militarily,
and above all to keep the pressure up and destabilize the situation.
What Putin really needs is a loyal government in Kiev, or at least one that will not join nato or make any other anti-Russian moves.
He has no interest in absorbing the Donbass into Russia—for one
thing, these areas depend on state subsidies for the mining (which is why kiev is bombing the mines, and hence the workers are volunteering against kiev! duh!)
industries, and for another, there are now these armed groups and
a popular mobilization with huge expectations of the Russian state(what Ishchenko might not admit as a sort of realist academic is that putin is a deeply spiritual man and so are russians and will not calluously leave people to wither)
Often people used to speak of exporting revolution, but here there’s a danger of importing it(Ishkenko doesnt get why russian muslim chechens would volunteer to fight for country and countrymen against nazis)
Putin’s in a tricky position domestically too: people in Russia were expecting him to intervene, so now he is under pressure from public opinion there.
He may seem to be playing his hand unevenly or inconsistently, but it really reflects the complexity of his position….”
Born in 1982 into a Soviet technical intelligentsia family,
Ishchenko came of age politically at the turn of the new century, in the tent camps and rallies of the ‘Ukraine Without Kuchma’ movement of 2000—one of the precursors of the 2013 Maidan.
He became part of Ukraine’s Marxist milieu while studying at the National University of Kyiv–Mohyla Academy, where,
despite the institution’s pro-Western orientation,
a small leftist subculture emerged in the later 2000s; this included the journal Spilne (Commons),
of which he is one of the founding editors. Within an intellectual scene dominated by nationalist themes,
Spilne sought to redirect attention to socio-economic questions from an explicitly internationalist, and anti-capitalist, perspective.
Such concerns have been still further marginalized
as the pressures of the country’s ongoing emergency have borne down on its political culture,
diminishing the space for independent critical thinking.
in this forum he would be given a free hand and speak openly.
thanks saker
saker, thanks for your post here which is especially good.. keep up the great work.. james
What options have the soldiers who run into Russia and then were shipped back to Kiev ?
One is to be called deserters and be sent to harsh military jail or even executed.
Another is to be assembled into a disciplinary battalion where they will receive guns only on the front line before the attack. Some trusted commissaries will stay behind ready to shoot if they make at the slightest disobedience: in other words, they will become cannon fodder.
A third option will be to convince the military that they pulled a smart trick fooling the russkies knowing their lifes will be saved so they can come back and fight more.
A fourth option will be for them to actually show dignity/gratitude and ATTACK the Kiev Junta (they were about to die earlier on anyway).
A fifth option will be to join the rebels and do sabotage behind the enemy lines.
A sixth option will be to have transgender operation to avoid any military fight.
Is there another option ?
Does anyone thinks these guys will just be sent home by the guys who really have the power in Kiev ? To go home and start preaching how good Russia treated them ? I doubt a little bit.
@Anonymous 1;28
Yes, I can imagine the homes there to be very expensive.
That is why I just look at them in photos .
The Russians and Novorussians are treating these surrendering Ukrainians the way the Geneva Convention stipulates. What is so strange that such treatment is now considered exemplary. What used to be considered a civilised norm is now thought of as exceptional. Think about that for a minute. People in the west have become so used to Israeli/nazi behaviour, that when somebody behaves civilised, they are now surprised and unsure if that is the right thing to be doing.
Though one thing I do hope the Russians are doing is checking if there is evidence existent of war crimes by these prisoners before sending them back to banderastan. And hanging on to those that can be shown to have engaged in war crimes. Such as that spotter, Hope S. they have in custody.
вот так
in regards to the video of the supposed missile launch shown below.
http://nemolchu.ru/video/ukrainskaja-voina/streljali-po-boingu-vsu-s-territorii-podkontrolnyh-kolomoiskomu.html
I can say for certain this video did not come from Meteosat. The specs are available from their website at http://www.eumetsat.int
Meteosat Ref: Operational Services Specification
3.1 – 0° Service
The High Resolution Visible (HRV) channel has a resolution of 1 km and only covers a part of the full disc view, covering mainly Africa and Europe. The full disc view allows frequent sampling, every 15 minutes, enabling monitoring of rapidly evolving events.
3.2 – 9.5° E RSS (Rapid Scanning Service)
The service generates image data at 5-minute intervals (the same as currently used for weather radars).
3.3 – 57° E IODC
Only provides data for Idian Ocean.
According to Meteosat specification, video is not is its capability nor is the capability for resolution shown in the video of the missile. So, none of the data in this video could have come from Meteosat.
I have seen posts from multiple twitter accounts saying Meteosat has denied the data came from them but I can not find an official statement from them.
@ anon @ 00:25
I think your wrong. There are not an “infinite number” of Ukrainian males military aged. As for America, the US can barely sustain 10 fucking casualties without the president preempting prime time tv at $10 million per second to declare it a national tragedy and the corporate slime media talking about nothing else, and without 100,000 “yellow ribbon” parades, and some other douchebag making a movie about it.
MEANWHILE president drone murder, the senate, and the congress think nothing of killing 10,000 Syrians, Serbs or Ethnic Russians per week while and 2/3 of the semi-comatose blobs of protoplasm called Americans don’t even bother to know its happening.
From Aztlan,
Having traveled around Russia and Ukraine, there are certainly differences in the character of the people. Yes, the Russian seems to me more tolerant and centered. Alas, Ukraine came calling, I met a young lady from Lvov, now Lviv, formerly Lemberg, etc. Seemed quite nice, an accountant, and things were going well. Suddenly Maidan appeared and the true Galitzian came out.
Her conversations took an ugly turn. A young woman, 32 yrs. The rants were terrible, the least she would write, was that Putin is the personification of Satan, and Russians all the demons from hell.
Through social networks I befriended persons from different regions of Ukraine: Sumy, Kiev, Cherkassy, Donetsk, Crimea.
To my surprise, many of those young women shared the same thoughts and opinions. It is not in the water, such thoughts, it came from their education. They laughed at the Tales they had to read, in Russian, at school. “Russia is sh…t”,
My conclusion is that it comes from the womb. All women from Lvov shared the same opinions, with one exception. Even from Donbass and Crimea, they think little of Russia. From Crimea they are ambivalent or ambiguous. They have their loyalty to Ukraine, but understand they are in Russia, now.
For the Anglo Zionists it is no big deal. They will keep educating the Ukrainian youth with their grants, reality TV, Rambo type films, and mostly the illusion that all streets in Amerika are paved in gold. That is what they believe, Ukies.
But, we cannot forget that these persons for centuries, galichians, have been the henchmen of the conqueror in turn.
They executed pogroms, they butchered and murdered jews and Poles. For them that history reads as “So, what?”
It is normal for them. From the crib they are taught, can see thanks to internet their idolatry of Bandera.
Their airs of superiority are clear in the bravado in their videos.
They don’t know gratitude, the christian principles are just decorations for their homes.
I would like to forgive, but how many times can you forgive a serial killer?
BTW, the women in the video are from North Bukhovina, Romanian. This is the next place that will be lit up by MLRS.
Amen, Saker, Amen
I wouldn’t bet my day job on the supposed inferiority of the Kiev forces vis a vis the Novorossiya militias just yet Saker. Fresh off the presses- Ukrainian media report that Kiev punishers just shattered a militia armored unit and closed the trap around Gorlovka. It appears Bezler’s militia took a beating and got sent packing in a big hurry. The two Novorossiya republics appear to have been split in two. More evidence of the superior Novorossiya forces retreating some more before the inferior Kiev punishers.
http://obozrevatel.com/crime/67205-silyi-ato-zablokirovali-gorlovku.htm
Summary of the head of the political section I. Ivanov 27.07.2014
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/3230-svodka-ot-nachalnika-politotdela-i-ivanova-27072014.html
“The attempt of the enemy to break into the area of Stepan-Krynka was repulsed. Padded 1 tank and 2 vehicles. The southern grouping of the enemy in the region Djakovo and Zelenopole surrounded and left without ammunition, the situation is hard.
The enemy moved slightly in the airport settlement Sands. Deep into the city militia enemy will not miss.
Militia says that in 2-3 weeks will be ready for large-scale offensive, the aim of the offensive was to drive the enemy out of Novorossia.
The number of volunteers is growing. We urge those who have not yet done so, to join the militia and to protect the native house, native land and to defend the new Russia!”
The video of the discussion is 8 minutes, but not subtitled in English. Curious what else they talked about.
вот так
Dear Saker,
Excellent post as always it is very important to introduce to the western culture the real side of the Russian / Ukraian / culture because of the non- stop propaganda that from the East always only Monsters are coming and nothing else.
Every nation has their own heros and satans as you have mentioned. For all of us around the world it is a very good news that this horrible events are happening in Ukraine where people unfortunately got brainwashed, but right now even the brainwashed mothers of the right sector members are missing their son’s which were dumped like a last garbage after their death into the lake or into the mass grave and they have no clue where their son’s were dumped.
Now this is starting to sink in and the reality is starting to show up as Saker described. Spriritual part of the mothers of these brainwashed and highly manipulated son’s are showing the very sad result.
Yes, Putin is accused of not stepping in and he knows why!? He decided to let the Nazis to show their real face and show the real face of the west democracy till the sleepy Ukraians will fully wake up to their tragedy because they were not able to see the real face of the Satan who is already destroyed the all world and is still think he we will enslave the all world.
Well Russian and Ukraian mothers are very tough, they have a very big heart and they will give you the last piece of bread, but when they will discover that their children were hurt,then it will be the last chance for the Satan and the story will be pretty soon over if they like it or not.
This was just a rehearsal from the Ukraian mothers and the main story is just coming…….
To Q @ 00:42
Thank you too, you have nailed very well the curent situation
Спецназ Стрелкова, битва за Шахтерск продолжается: идут бои, сожжена бронетехника врага (фото/видео лента) (petsnaz Strelkova, the battle for Shakhtersk continues: there are fights, burned down the enemy armored vehicles (photo/video tape))
http://rusvesna.su/news/1406511933 (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/rusvesna.su/news/1406511933
“… Came the decisive moments of the battle for Donbass.
Recall that Shakhtersk is located on the second line of communications between the Lugansk and Donetsk, and its loss can have catastrophic consequences for the defenders of Novorossia. Came the decisive moments of the battle for Donbass.
The essence of what is happening is that the Ukrainian security forces began a long-planned operation simultaneous attack on converging directions from the South and North, around Donetsk, with the aim to create a large Donetsk boiler. From the South, they hit on Shakhtersk-Thorez. From North to Gorlovka and Debaltsevo. Distracting strikes are on the Pervomaisk and Donetsk. Objective: to cross communication and to close encirclement in Yenakiyevo. About such a scenario warned Igor Strelkov. The tactics is explained by the fact sacrifice guards in South boiler. Dying as cannon fodder, hundreds of conscripts, however, distract the forces of militia. – [I had speculated about that earlier today on a different thread]
As usual, the Ukrainian side reported fantastically successful operation. According to their information Shakhtersk already taken and stripped from the militias. They at the same time they allegedly assaulting Debaltsevo, Torez, Snow, hang everywhere their flags, move mechanized columns and tank hordes…”
вот так
How is the Donbas propaganda campaign coming along? I would start with release of chocolate coloured pig/balloons,when the east wind is blowing west,and send one for every casualty of the campaign.the ukies might even waste their ammo when they see them flying into Western Europe over their heads.Oh ,the shame Porkies.
Include a raffle prize of a week in USA for the winner, two weeks for second.etc.
XbNB
The Russians respond to the zionist descendents of Herr Goebbels:
В Совфеде назвали абсурдными обвинения США в адрес России (In the Scenarios described as absurd the accusations of the USA in Russia)
http://www.vz.ru/news/2014/7/28/697529.html (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/www.vz.ru/news/2014/7/28/697529.html
“In the Federation Council considered absurd and illogical accusations of the United States, which said that Ukraine was fired from the side of Russia, and that Moscow had allegedly supplied militia heavy weapons.
“So much has been said and napridumano Americans, so many lies they slepleno that sometimes this is not possible seriously to comment, so absurd those statements,” said RIA “Novosti” member of the Federation Council Committee on international Affairs Lyubov Glebova.
According to her, the inconsistency of such statements is puzzling. “If satellite images dated July 20, it is not clear, why the data were made public only now,” she said.
According to Russian Senator, this confirms the assumption that first Washington makes statements, unsupported by any facts, and then somehow begins to rig the facts”. “Otherwise, how absolutely shameless, shameless and irresponsible statements of the us state Department, I can’t”, – she added.
Glebova said that all this is an indication that an information war is for US a “locomotive of all actions”.
A similar view is held and the Chairman of the Federation Council Committee on defense and security, Viktor Ozerov. He called the accusations of the state Department’s another lie and said that if disclosed to them the facts were true, then Washington has said it faster than fell Boeing would have a meeting of the UN security Council and introduced, I don’t know what sanctions”. The Senator reminded that over the last few months of the border with Ukraine, the Russian regions visited 18 international inspections, and none of them, including the recently visited the delegation of the OSCE, found no evidence to support the statement of the US state Department.
“I think Washington is already so had to lie that he did not know how to get out of this situation,” Ozerov said. In his opinion, it is so obvious that in recent times not only in Europe, but in the US there are opinions that information policy of Washington “absolutely untrue”.
Let’s remind, the US Department of state said on Sunday about some intelligence – four satellite images, which, according to the U.S. Department of state, allegedly confirm expressed Washington’s accusations of shelling the territory of Ukraine from Russia.
Meanwhile, the defense Ministry said that in the last four months of the border with Ukraine regions of the Russian Federation visited 18 international inspections that are not found on the territory of Russia “of any violation or undeclared military activities”.
In turn, the Russian foreign Ministry said that the United States administration to conduct their own foreign policy relies on an outright lie and bears responsibility for the conflict on Ukraine and its serious consequences.”
вот так
How is the Donbas propaganda campaign coming along? I would start with release of chocolate coloured pig/balloons,when the east wind is blowing west,and send one for every casualty of the campaign.the ukies might even waste their ammo when they see them flying into Western Europe over their heads.Oh ,the shame Porkies.
Include a raffle prize of a week in USA for the winner, two weeks for second.etc.
XbNB
Exactly right, Mr. Saker, EXACTLY right – and one of your best posts
1) It is the ethical thing to do, to treat the 40 POWs/ prisoners with kindness.
2) It is the practical thing to do – astonishingly good news for the relatives of those poor soldiers, and relatives – and the NovoRossiya side (propaganda if you like) – somewhat like when a Cuban doctor performed a free cataract surgery on the old retired soldier who had personally executed Che Guevara – news of this flashed through Latin America and people were very impressed.
3) With more stories like this, one can hope that the conflict will end sooner – and wicked me, I grin and suspect that the US think tankers etc. will fail completely to understand what happened? The concept of “honour” is really hazy in their minds. quite unlike in the mind of Putin.
— Medea
Whenever I see yet another attempt to demonise Russia I click here and am reminded of the music and the humanity that both Russia and America share
i know this sounds implausible but……the missing malaysian 777.what if the devious bastards wanted the black boxes?
Rebels in east Ukraine appeal to WWII spirit with Soviet posters.
They have added current time stamp to them too [2014].
i know this sounds implausible but……….why would the first 777 have disappeared?maybe they wanted the black boxes.
regards metters
Beautifully expressed. Years ago, I spent time in Ukraine and was deeply impressed by the warmth, intelligence and kindness of the people. I too look to the time when they can recover their identity.
I am horrified by the vileness of the US propaganda, actions and intentions right now. Your posts somehow make it more bearable.
Bravo for this excellent, humane good sense, Saker!
i know this sounds implausible but……….why would the first 777 have disappeared?maybe they wanted the black boxes.
regards metters
Flight MH17 – What You’re Not Being Told.
This is my take on it: the Kiev clowns have very little to say and what happens in the Ukraine part they’re ‘ruling.’
MH17, the gift that keeps on giving [provided you’re a Kiev Fascists Supporter].
This ‘stone’ killed a whole flock of birds in one blow:
1) Russia did it [giving ‘us’ reason to do whatever we want]
2) The Separatists did it [giving ‘us’ reason to do whatever we want]
3) Israel started the ground invasion of Gaza that has resulted in over 1,000 dead Palestinians to date.
4 MAS, Malaysia’s national carrier is hit hard [it wasn’t in a real solvent company to begin with, but having ‘lost’ 2 planes, 1 carrying mostly Chinese and 1 mostly Dutch, again killed more birds in that same, single blow]. Malaysia has been very vocal with regard to Israel and Palestine. The Dutch were swing EU votes with regard to Russian sanctions, well, no more. “China has to understand that we kill and don’t care. We hope it knows its place now…” Anonymous White Horse Spouse.
5) Given the above I can only conclude that the downing of MH17 was was a US/Israel team effort, outsourced to the Kiev Clique and I wouldn’t be surprised if they royally f***** it up by downing the plane [MH17] too soon. One could have easily pointed at the merciless downing of KAL 007 [shaken not stirred] by a recidivist, bearish bloody monster and more yadda, yadda for the dried out nostrils…
‘Cui bono?’ is the only question that leads us to the right answer.
On 28 July, 2014 00:25 Anonymous opined:
Sorry, but this is total dribble.
[…]
It is public knowledge, but amongst the facts mysteriously depreciated here
[…]
This idea that playing the ‘good guy’ with fighters from the enemy side wins any sort of victory is an abhorrent lie.
[…]
Cheering the defenders as they are gradually eliminated, watching every village, town and city in Novorussia being turned into rubble, is just sick.
You raise some good points, but at the same time devaluate them by inserting unsubstantiated claims amounting to “resistance is futile because the Empire wins anyway” (as a summary). Some “facts because I say so” are even outright ignorant, like not differentiating between Ukrainian conscripts who were coerced to fight and Nazi guards who volunteered because their fetish is death and destruction.
100% of the non-military effort should be an application of pressure on Putin to send in peace-keepers.
Why should Putin do what his adversaries want him to do? Why is Putin responsible for everything happening in the Ukraine? Putin’s political line has been consistent throughout the years:
1. Non-intervention in other state’s internal affairs
2. Actions have to be in accordance to International Law
Just because the Americans think R2P is a great thing doesn’t mean it is worth emulating for others – especially in the light that it’s just a fig leaf for imperial policies. Nor does it make R2P consistent with International Law.
By now, I have to have the greatest suspicion of anyone ‘on our side’ who doesn’t seem to see this.
You don’t get to define the sides readers take. Posters planting black propaganda in order to demoralise and subvert people “supporting terrorists” are almost certainly not on my side.
Б.
I seem to be having problems with Youtube when I try to watch pro Novorossiyan videos.
Anybody else having similar problems?
Map of military operations in Novorossia 22-28 July
http://on-planet.ru/uploads/posts/2014-07/1406516637_4614_original.jpg
Useful reference.
вот так
Ah, Anonymous 28 July, 2014 00:25. He never gives up, does he?
Under UN Law, total immunity (against later war crime charges) can be issued by the Security Council (see Iraq), or by an agreement with the ‘legal’ government of the nation accepting the assistance of foreign fighters on its soil.
The Security Council didn’t authorise an invasion of Iraq. The US alone insists on immunity for its troops, and their consequent behaviour has always infuriated the locals from Okinawa to Fallujah. Obama was kicked out of Iraq because he insisted on immunity.
In the first Gulf War, the Coldstream Guards were assigned the supervision of POWs. The humane treatment of prisoners was such a major objective that only crack troops would suffice. Bush the Elder made a special point of commending an American NCO who had treated a surrendering Iraqi with respect in a tv news clip.
In the humanitarian world of Bush-Blair, that all went out the window. Their invasion was no-holds-barred, and well over a million deaths later (if you narrow the toll to shootings alone, which is not how the Holocaust is calculated), their defeated troops could only slink away in disgrace.
That said, the UN does employ judges like Geoffrey Robertson, the Doughty Street dingo, to strip human rights law of its universality, turning it into a genocide licence for the powerful. But corrupt enforcement should not be confused with immunity. Their day will come. In all fields of life, the decent, compassionate approach is always the most ruthlessly cost-effective.
What are the news on the Ukie attempt at encircling Donetsk? Anybody here who has some up-to-date information? Very concerned.
another person to consider getting for this site:
Sergei Kirichuk, the leader of the ‘Borodba’ movement, an influential left-wing organization in Ukraine, which is fully opposed to the Kiev junta, but at the same time maintains its independence, and cannot be defined as fully ‘pro-Russian’.
First, and the most important question, is how did a passenger airliner happen to be in the epicenter of the military conflict?
The second important question is based on the claim by the Ukrainian security services, related to some “intercepted communication of the terrorists”, that the ‘terrorists’ were the ones who downed the plane. This communication appears to be a clear fabrication, fake, but were it to be genuine, it would provoke even more questions towards the Ukrainian security services: would it mean that they were able to monitor the communications of their adversaries, were familiar with their plans, but did nothing to prevent the tragedy?
THE MOST TERRIBLE THING IS THAT THE TRAGEDY OF INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES IS BEING USED BY UKRAINIAN MASS MEDIA AS SOME SORT OF JUSTIFICATION FOR THE LOSS OF LIVES OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATION IN DONBAS.
The onslaught of the Government forces began with renewed zeal, not caring at all, anymore, about the losses among the armed forces or civilian population.
Besides that, pro-NATO elements now believe that there is solid justification for the invasion of Ukraine by Western forces.
a leading international lawyer, Christopher Black, who has investigated genocides and crimes against humanity all over the world:
President Putin has insisted on an objective international investigation since the news broke while President Obama and his minions in Kiev have done nothing but call for the head of Putin.
HISTORY SHOWS THAT PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS INSISTED ON ADHERENCE TO INTERNATIONAL LAW AND CIVILIZED BEHAVIOR CONSISTENTLY THROUGHOUT HIS TERMS IN OFFICE.
His integrity is unquestioned,
WHEREAS PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS BEEN CONSISTENT IN HIS CALLS FOR WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR IN EVERY REGION OF THE GLOBE AND INSISTS THAT THE AMERICANS ARE “EXCEPTIONAL” AND ABOVE THE LAW AND JUDGMENT.
It may be that the results of an independent investigation of this tragic and terrible event will have consequences for the United States that are beyond its imaginings and that will erase any remaining influence or credit that it may still have in the world.
They have committed many crimes.
This may be the one crime too many.
notice as the buk missile narrative of lies is falling apart, the usa-kiev nazi junta, trot out confirmed and by his own admission, serial LIAR, Obama’s director of national intelliegence, one James Clapper, to point to some shelling pictures which are doubtful and even if true, russia has the right to defend itself along its border if it is getting shelled by untrained and undusciplined ukranian troops.
so theyre grasping at straws trying to make any lie stick to kill anyone for their nazi agenda.
obama should hang his peace prize right next to his waffen ss medals.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/25/mh17-sacrificed-airliner/
In Kuala Lumpur, there was deadly silence after the downing of MH17. Not one writer or filmmaker that I know and contacted wanted to go on record. One mistaken word and the entire rosy dream of Western ‘funding’ would go up in flames.
Only the official anti-Russian narrative was available.
this confirms posts we have seen here from malay, thai, indonesian media.
Two filmmakers spoke, but off the record:
“To be honest, Malaysians are completely out of touch with what’s happening or even with the political consequences of the ‘deal’ that our Prime Minister had made to bring the bodies back.
No one has even questioned what the deal was.
There is no discussion whatsoever, even in the educated circles as it’s taboo to even start talking about anything other than the people who died.
All Malaysians care about is that it’s tragedy and that we should feel sad. But largely, Russia and Putin are the villains in the mind of Malaysians.”
Someone please name one conflict in which the winner gained advantage from killing any prisoners.
The only situation where i see it appropriate is to save your own army from becoming tolerant of rape, murder and pillage.
If we kill those we believe are “really really bad guys”, how are the “not so bad guys” going to know that it is safe to surrender?
To outsiders, I would like to be able to point out that there is a clear difference between us and them.
It looks like the Ukies have lost another An-26/30. It appears to have been hit by several manpads in quick succession.
Poroshenko has been posing with lots of shiny new equipment (sniper rifles, Ukie humvees, tanks etc) some of which appears to be material ordered by third parties (Thailand, Congo) but diverted to Ukie use. Hmmm, I wonder how Thailand likes that sort of thing? On the other hand, Ukraine has run out of money to pay the military. It is resorting to holding collections for funding.
An interesting viewpoint of the current position. Effectively Russia asks for MH-17 ground-air voice recordings etc but already has them. Russia is ready to go, maybe October and look out west of Odessa.
On the west, the Ukies are busy digging a 450 km ditch along the Transdinistra border. They have a machine that digs a 3.5 m wide 2m deep ditch at a rate of 2.5 km a week. They have completed 5 km so far. Two weeks down, 178 weeks to go!
In an interview on BBC radio this morning, Robert Baer (CIA) blamed Nuland for the crisis in Ukraine and also said Putin might be obliged to respond if [sic] large numbers of ethnic Russians were killed:
Baer: “My opinion is that the US in a sense provoked this by all this talk, especially Victoria Nuland, about bringing Ukraine under the umbrella of NATO, missile defence and the rest of it, what I would do is turn to some back channel diplomacy and see what sort of deal Putin is prepared to cut.
Humphries: Why do you think this has not happened more obviously?
Baer: I think what has happened in the last couple of weeks is that the pro-Russian dissidents have lost so much ground that Putin is panicking. You have to look at this from his point of view, he’s not doing this just to be honorary. He has enormous popularity in Russia and he has the backing of Russian nationalists and he is being driven by internal politics. If the Ukrainians keep on going and push these forces out and Russians, ethnic Russians, die in large numbers, isn’t he obligated to do something more?”
Dear The Saker,
A couple of things today.
First, Lavrov has finally done a press conference about MH17:
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/742538
and
Court of Arbitration in the Hague has gone in favour of the crooks and Khodorkovsky:
http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/742553
Rgds,
Veritas
An inspired post. Never underestimate the power of forgiveness. At some point the fighting will stop and the healing will commence. Acknowledging the humanity of the other is the first step down this path.
The economic prospects of Ukraine look pretty gloomy (Ukraine’s Harvest) but will this really have a decisive impact on the short term evolution on the ground?
@ Daniel Rich
“The word ‘Nazis’ triggers an image of Germans [in my mind]”
Not sure I can agree with you there. Present day Germans have no connection with Nazi ideology. I think the use of the term Nazi is fine.
*****
@ Andrew
“… repeat the words of a Lugansk Self-Defence fighter …”
Excellent post. Many thanks.
*****
My big question is this:
Why is the West so terrified as to commit itself to such atrocities?
Why is Russia so very, very restrained?
I suspect that the Lugansk fighter puts it perfectly:
“Novorossiy will free DPR [Donetsk People’s Republic] and LPR and then arm volunteers in Kharkov, Zaporozhia, Odessa, Nikolayev, Dneptropetrovsk, Kherson, and Zakarpattia regions.”