Well, I tried to avoid writing about this topic until more hard facts became available. But since this is apparently turning into a political fight between, on one side, Russia and Egypt and, on the other, the US and UK, I think that I can at least offer a few general thoughts.
What we know so far is this: Kogalymavia Flight 9268 had left Sharm el-Sheikh International Airport, Egypt, en route to Pulkovo Airport in Saint Petersburg. The aircraft reached an altitude of 33,500 ft (10,200 m) at 404 kn (748 km/h; 465 mph). Then something absolutely catastrophic happened. The pilots did not radio anything at all, the plane dropped and crashed. The tail section was found 5km away from the rest of the plan. Just from that data we can come to some initial conclusions: this was not a “regular” mechanical failure (like, say, an engine fire) but something which happened so fast that the pilots did not even have the time to react. The aircraft broke up in mid-air. Only three things could have caused this:
- A sudden and catastrophic structural failure
- A anti-aircraft missile
- A bomb inside the aircraft
The first option is possible, and there are reports that the tail had a crack in the back. Other reports mention that the aircraft was involved in an tailstrike 14 years ago. However, this aircraft was inspected, several times, the tailstrike incident was recorded and the long term dangers of tailstrikes are also well known. So the possibility of a catastrophic structural failure is sound.
The second option makes no sense to me at all. I know of no man portable or even SUV-mounted missile which could strike an aircraft flying at over 10km high and at over 700km/h. As for a bigger missile, well, we would have the same problem as with MH-17, only worse: not only would such a larger missile leave a visible plume, and make a very loud noise but, unlike in the Ukraine, in the Egyptian desert the missile launcher and crew would have nowhere to hide after the launch. In fact, even getting such a large missile into the crash area would be very difficult: just like the Ukraine, Egypt is a war zone and there are a lot of “eyes in the sky”. Finally, unless the missile can acquire an infra-red signature at 10km altitude, it would have to be cued to the aircraft by radar and that emission would also be detectable. I cannot prove a negative, and I suppose one ought never to say never, but I don’t buy the missile hypothesis at all.
Which leaves the bomb. To my great regret, this is the version which I find most plausible, if only by Occam’s razor. No offense to anybody here, but the Egyptian security services don’t exactly have an impressive track of protecting tourists. And while it is clear to me that the US and UK are trying to capitalize on this tragedy, I would note that Medvedev just publicly ordered the Russian security services to provide point security in airport terminal were Russian aircraft take off from. Could it be that the Russian security services have already come to the same conclusion as the Brits and Americans?
So it boils down to this: what is more likely – a massive sudden structural failure or a bomb. I believe that the latter is much more likely.
Still, we really should wait for the official report. “Much more likely” does not mean that this is what happened. It is “much more likely” that a coin will fall heads or tails, but sometimes they do end up standing on the edge. There have been tailstrike induced catastrophic failures in the past, and the Kogalymavia airline was facing some financial difficulties, so maybe maintenance was less than stellar.
So what if it really was Daesh which blew up Flight 9268?
Horrible as this may sound, I don’t think that this is very significant, at least not on a political level.
First, Russian officials have always said that the terrorist threat for Russia was real. As soon as the Russian military operation in Syria began, officials were asked whether this would not dramatically increase the risks of terrorist attacks against Russian. Their answer was always the same one: “we already are under maximal threat, this does not make it worse“. This is forgotten in the West, but Russia is still battling a terrorist insurgency in Dagestan. Wahabi crazies are regularly arrested even in Moscow! The anti-terror war for Russia has never stopped and the intervention in Syria is just one more episode of a war which really began following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Yes, this is an immense human tragedy, but it is no worse than Budennovsk or the Nord-Ost episode. Russian expect no less from the shaitans they have been fighting for decades now.
Second, the fact that Daesh had to strike abroad indirectly indicates that they did not have the means to strike inside Russia. Again, one should never say never, but the FSB-protected Russia is a tough one to crack for the Wahabi crazies.
Third, while I would not put it past the Egyptians to lie in their report (they really have a lot to lose!), I don’t think that the Russian officials will lie about the cause of this crash. This is too high visibility a case and, unlike the “Kursk”, this is not a military or national-security matter. The risks of attempting a cover-up much outweigh the potential benefits. Simply put: unlike the Egyptians, the Russians have no imperative reasons to lie (and that is not to say that I suspect the Egyptians of lying; I am only saying that they have much bigger motive to do so than the Russians).
Fourth, regardless of what the final report will say in a couple of months, the Egyptians will pay a huge economic price in lost income as there will always remain a suspicion about what happened. Even if the Egyptian security services did nothing wrong, and even if the final report fully clears Egypt from any wrongdoing, the panic induced by this precedent (fueled by US and UK statements) will badly hurt Egypt. In that sense, Daesh has already greatly benefited from this tragedy.
All of the above leads me to a paradoxical conclusion: whatever the final report will say, it will make very little difference to the situation on the ground. The damage has been done and there is nothing which will undo it.
The Saker
Lol. Wait for the official report to get the ‘facts’.
This was the work of none other than Prince Muhammad bin Salmaan with advise from the mossad, the Deputy Heir Apparent and the “Minister of Defense” for the imploding kingdom of mental squalor. That’s right. When this arrogant little pimp left the office of President Putin, in Socchi, he mumbled a threat which was recorded by the Russian minders in the building. The best effort at decrypting it produced a threat to punish Russia for its help to Dr. Assad and to pay Mr. Putin back for the rude treatment the prince received.
May the oil terminal ports soon be aflame !
Possible, but from the way the UK and USA are hinting that they know the facts, and refusing to share their ‘information’ with Russia, it seems that they are the more likely suspects. If not them, then one of their proxies, al-Qaeda or Daash. In any case, as an excellent article in WSWS makes clear today, with a report on US Congressional hearings, the USA is openly planning a war of aggression against Russia and China in the near future. And the obvious lack of sympathy for the Russian victims, and the efforts of Western MSM scum to blame Putin or predict his downfall or forced retreat from Syria as a result of ‘outraged Russian opinion at his adventurism’, shows that Western publics are being brainwashed in preparation for war.
My thoughts exactly. The Egyptians should respond by sending ground forces to Syria to crush Daesh completely. Russia will provide a response that will stun us all, I suspect (unless this was structural failure).
“The damage has been done and there is nothing which will undo it.”
The Saker
The official report does not matter. It is of no use. I shiver endlessly in my little hole, for I will never fly again. The monstrous, cynical charade goes on.
“A flash was seen in the sky” by a pair of eyes in the sky..
“There was chatter on social media”
“More likely than not to have been caused by a bomb on the plane.” David Cameron
“British investigators looking at what caused a Russian airliner to crash in Egypt believe a bomb was put in the hold just before take-off, the BBC has learned.”
http://www.bbc.com/news
Just before? By what laws of physics, chemistry and math did the British investigators conclude that the bomb was placed in the hold JUST BEFORE take-off? Why not the first thing the terrorists put in the plane before take-off? Or half-way into the victims luggage in the plane’s cargo hold? Why the last thing the terrorists put on the plane before take-off? How can anybody know thie time for the crime who did not know before or during the commission of the crime?
The important thing, the most glaring thing that this crime should show the Russian oligarchpoly is how terribly weak the Russian security apparatus has become!
Tell me, anybody: How many times did Aeroflot experience terrorism?
ZERO!
ZERO! Aeroflot my HERO!
Viva Soyuz Soviet!
Yes-the scum are bragging of their ‘inside knowledge’. Doing it cynically and subtly, but letting Russia know that mass murder is a core ‘Western Moral Value’.
Old saying we used as kids:
“Thems that smelt it dealt it”
All speculation of course, but noting what sort of propaganda is put out by whom, and when, has in the past indicated what the real story turned out to be. Sometimes such propaganda, or reporting, can even be discovered before the event (classic example is BBC reporting building 7 collapse 20 minutes before it did).
blue, it’s getting more obvious from the actions of the propaganda sewer. The BBC cess-pit, with one of its more crapulous residents, Jonathon Markus leading the way, has pulled of a trade-mark ‘reversal of narrative’ today. Now it’s Russia that has information it is ‘not sharing with the USA and UK'(why should it, at this stage?)about the crash. The familiar disinformation trope of ‘terrorist chatter’ has now appeared as the source for the UK’s mysterious ‘inside information’, a sign, I would say that wiser heads have cautioned against too obvious prior knowledge. As for Markus, the ‘aristocrat of humanity’ went on a small master-class of propaganda, twisting the disaster to become caused by Putin in not bombing Daash, but concentrating on the noble, pro-Western, ‘moderate’ opposition, and that he would now wake up and join the USA and UK in concentrating on attacking Daash. As they say, he could sleep on a cork-screw, but couldn’t they all.
And to add to the disgusting Hegemon messaging:
“Interviewing Australia’s Foreign Minister Julie Bishop on Monday, the ABC’s long serving and widely respected radio presenter Fran Kelly posed her question like this:
“Of course the Australian government – as you’ve said – extends its sympathies to countries which have lost citizens here and the families of those citizens, but I must ask you minister does it strike you as ironic that Russia wants to wait until a full investigation is conducted into the causes of this plane crash, before making any further comment, given how hostile President Putin was to a full investigation into flight MH17?”
Although Bishop preferred not to speculate until more was known about the cause of the crash, she prefaced with this comment:
“yes I’m sure the irony won’t be lost on people, but now is not the time for me to make such a comment.. (..considering the grieving relatives and friends..)”
http://russia-insider.com/en/australias-crocodile-tears-over-russia/ri10972
Oh, yes Sanctuary-I heard that exchange, typically evil. Kelly is repulsive and very stupid, the type of presstitute preferred, and Bishop made her name as a lawyer by deliberately delaying asbestos compensation cases through legal tactics, until the plaintiffs died, which with mesothelioma is quick and awful. The victims’ relatives and their supporters revile her, but that is the ruling global elite type in all its filthiness. I see, too, that the scum at Charlie Hebdo have added their vile talents to the all too plain Western celebration of this tragedy, then had the filthy impudence to criticise Putin as a ‘dictator’ or some such crap, because his spokesman complained of the psychotic lack of empathy. You can really see the true nature of Western elites, evil, psychopathic, murderous, narcissistic, more and more every day. For a while the glorious West seemed content merely with ignoring the Sinai tragedy, but the note of gloating and barely suppressed satisfaction, particularly, as these harridans illustrate, in relation to MH17, is growing. And one wonders if the Western ‘intelligence’ forces will ever publish a recording of the terrorist ‘chatter’ they claim to have recorded, re the crash, unless, of course, it was merely the Western created liver-eaters reporting success to their Masters.
“All speculation of course, but noting what sort of propaganda is put out by whom, and when, has in the past indicated what the real story turned out to be. ”
There is some merit in that although let me illustrate a caution from Soviet times.
There was once a species called Kremlinologists who had a tendency towards beauty contests.
Every November the 7th they passed “judgement” on who was in and who was out on the basis of their position and time atop a mausoleum.
This particular mausoleum was, and still is, on one side of a largish square on a hill with two sizeable open ends.
It is windy at all times but especially on November 7ths.
The people standing on the mausoleum were usually elderly men and in addition to wind November 7ths in Moscow can be cold.
Given the factors above elderly men were often overcome with the desire to urinate but urination on the mausoleum would be frowned upon.
So they tended to go to urinate elsewhere and then return to their pedestal.
However the Kremlinologists were wedded to their tasks.
It is generally wise to consider as many aspects as possible even in speculation.
(….)in addition to wind November 7ths in Moscow can be cold.
So what sense does it advise me to visit Russia in December?
You see, I have reviewed the estimates of average temperature in late December, and I get values between -3º and -13º C,
Really, will I be able to find any Russian on the street after noon?
What am I supposed to do when everyone goes home to take refuge in a warmer environment? To visit the Lenin Library? Lenin himself? Or steel myself, put my high mountain clothes ( well I’m not Siberian and this is what I have ) and visit the other grandpas out there? Or to visit the museum of the KGB in The Lubyanka? By the way, will be heat there, and a cafe for tea?
On people out in the basis of the mausoleum, on 7th November, I could see the other day the parade commemorating the 1941 parade during the Great Patriot War, so moving, with all those uniforms and vehicles of the time …. You know, I saw myself moved to tears when in the middle of this representation the anthem of the Russian Federation rang ( what nonsense…. you most likely will be thinking…..well, I really do not know what this feeling is….) and even more when I saw the old veteran with a picture of Koba in his lap …..
Well, a charming parade, almost all participants were so young, almost teenagers, and there, stoically enduring the cold, was Mr. Ivanov, on behalf of the Presidential Staff…… Do you know what? I loved the “plebeian street style” he chose for the commemoration on that Saturday morning ….. very in tune with the public…..ordinary people….. people who looked all like very good people ….. suffered ….. but able to get excited about such an heroic history as is theirs…..
https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/190793-moscu-desfile-legendario-gran-guerra-patria
“stoically enduring the cold, was Mr. Ivanov, on behalf of the Presidential Staff……”
It may have evaded your attention but
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-170097
was a caution against dogma.
“I loved the “plebeian street style” he chose for the commemoration on that Saturday morning ….. very in tune with the public…..ordinary people….. people who looked all like very good people”
May 9th and November 7th then this?
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/321223-remembrance-day-uk-ww1/
From the article you are linking above:
(….)” Also ignored are Merchant Navy veterans. The Morning Star newspaper has reported how organizers of the Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall have prevented merchant Navy veterans (the youngest of whom is in his late eighties) from taking part in the parade at the event – despite them having participated in years gone by. The Merchant Navy’s Arctic convoys played a key role in supplying the Soviet Union’s war effort against the Nazi invaders, but it seems this is not deemed important enough to allow the men to parade. Instead, the Merchant Navy Welfare Board were offered “a small number of seats” in the audience. Is this really the right way to honor war heroes?”(….)
No, this is not the right way, indeed, a nation who ignore its heroes has nothing to wait from its people in the future….
Fortunately, not all nations on Planet Earth do the same, and there you have that Russia, not only recognizes and honors its own heroes, but does not forget those from other lands who risked everything to help her……
Really encouraging ……friend…….and comforting……despite the cold outside…..
http://edinburgh.mid.ru/en_GB/web/edinburgh_en/main-page/-/asset_publisher/L23yEHxBhIng/content/a-monument-commemorating-the-sailors-of-the-arctic-convoys-opened-in-arkhangelsk?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fedinburgh.mid.ru%2Fen_GB%2Fweb%2Fedinburgh_en%2Fmain-page%3Fp_p_id%3D101_INSTANCE_L23yEHxBhIng%26p_p_lifecycle%3D0%26p_p_state%3Dnormal%26p_p_mode%3Dview%26p_p_col_id%3Dcolumn-2%26p_p_col_pos%3D1%26p_p_col_count%3D2
http://edinburgh.mid.ru/en_GB/web/edinburgh_en/main-page/-/asset_publisher/L23yEHxBhIng/content/presentation-of-ushakov-medal-to-the-veteran-of-the-arctic-convoys-mr-hugh-young?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fedinburgh.mid.ru%2Fen_GB%2Fweb%2Fedinburgh_en%2Fmain-page%3Fp_p_id%3D101_INSTANCE_L23yEHxBhIng%26p_p_lifecycle%3D0%26p_p_state%3Dnormal%26p_p_mode%3Dview%26p_p_col_id%3Dcolumn-2%26p_p_col_pos%3D1%26p_p_col_count%3D2
Dad was a sailor, deep sea fishing, very suffered and polished people, accustomed to look death in the face…..Thanks.
Perhaps of interest
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/sergey-ivanov-talks-tass/ri11080
Very, very interesting. Thanks.
I found that interview days ago on TASS and posted here ( do not remember the thread ) in case anbody would find it also of interest. Well, eimar, found it….
Anyway, is always interesting to read Mr. Mercouris insight.
I knew he was a very important person as was he who stood at the mausoleum past 7th November…..
As I can remember, I read that Mr. Ivanov was also in Uganda…..sometime…..and maybe I am wrong, but , is he not also a fishing enthusiast? Like you…..and me……well, really…. more than of fishing what I am fond of is “big blue”…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDIEAEmjaKU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J5ptf0POnA
“a nation who ignore its heroes”
A caution to add to Hans Christian Andersen’s
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29691.htm
elsi.
The ‘reply’ button is missing on your ‘fishing’ post, so putting the link here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjicPwDOm14&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Beats ‘fishing’ !
(though I don’t know how else I could get delicious wild salmon cutlets..guess it has its uses :)
“Beats ‘fishing’ !”
There are many ways to fish.
http://fortruss.blogspot.ru/2015/11/plans-for-new-nuclear-submarine-system.html
“is he not also a fishing enthusiast? ”
Careful some might extrapolate that he is a fisher of men.
Hagiography is dangerous.
For those attracted to triangulation.
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russia-convicts-former-policeman-high-treason-spying-cia/ri11133
Tell me friend, I would like your opinion on something that haunts me lately and I would start asking:
Do you find in any way useful ( for the Russian Federation ) that I continue commenting on this blog?
You see, after two years commenting ( and something else ) here, with greater or lesser intensity, and especially after the massive attack from the “Anti-Zionist Liberation Front”, after my attempt to defend Stephen Cohen, I begin to feel, with increasing intensity, the futility of such an effort ( well, mostly, I steal time from sleep and from my time to be outdoors, with the consequent effect on my health and wellness ).
I feel like the audience, according to my perception mostly from the countries of the “5 eyes”, was too sure of its own knowledge / belief and was impervious to consider any change of opinion / view on anything or learn something new ( with few exceptons, of course ).
I do not refer only to issues about Russia, but as Spanish and Basque, I see that the opinion of some about my country ( the small and the large) remains the same as the rest of the US population that some call contemptuously ” sheeple “( believed to be out of that set ) and is considered abducted by the government/media disinformation and lives in the most absolute ignorance……
The other day, paradoxically, I felt like if falling on me all the “Popular Front of Judea”……
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Wo3bsTZYY
Anyway, I still remain here and try to catch all your comments / links as I can, here or in the ether, but now I have much less time than before, and might lose some……
P.S: What flowers would be best suited to carry for Koba?
спокойной ночи!
Very beautiful images, eimar, thanks, I love surf ……and also salmon!
Meet the epic left wave of Mundaka:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoRMJkuGjmI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRPGoDr5LSs
“I dream that someday when the war seem inevitable, someone stand up and say: Gentlemen, let’s go fishing!”
“To have faith and hope in the most extravagant idea, I think it’s really beautiful”.
“Something changes in all of them, everyone does its trip”.
“I was wondering if I am genetically programmed to have a dull life.
And do you think you are?
No”.
( “Salmon fishing in The Yemen” ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEUwCX2UjJA
Elsi,
Don’t know what kind of flowers KOB want, but they make it pretty clear what kind of ‘bouquet’ (if Gurgle Translate has it right – no guarantees there ) they don’t want:
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www.kpe.ru/sobytiya-i-mneniya/ocenka-tendencii-s-pozicii-kob/5981-what-is-the-global-predictor-answer&usg=ALkJrhgZPmoGlD-58EA_gDQM6NuDjP_VPQ
CDEC link in article *very* interesting…
“Do you find in any way useful ( for the Russian Federation ) that I continue commenting on this blog?”
The Russian Federation including its representatives are quite proficient in many things.
Evaluation is always a function of purpose.
Vaccination a function of exposure.
Perhaps the question is better framed as
Have I built up a satisfactory level of resistance?
A longer version was transmitted
“Do you find in any way useful ( for the Russian Federation ) that I continue commenting on this blog?”
The Russian Federation and its representatives are quite adept in many aspects.
Evaluation is a function of purpose.
This is an evaluation of someone else.
/dreams-of-a-sleeping-alligator-dream-three-a-surrender-a-meeting-and-a-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-162480
Vaccination is presentation of “threats” in an attenuated form.
Attenuation facilitates resistance.
Perhaps a more useful framing of your question would be:
Have I built up a necessary level of resistance?
The opponents’ overt “media” strategy is predicated on the notion that the subject/object binary is key, and that people can be “convinced”.
The opponents’ wider understanding is that “perception management” is multi-facetted and requires not only ideological immersion but coercion – legal system, socio-economic relations etc.
Many of the opponents’ overt “media” strategies consicously or unconsciously – by design and/or default – seek to reinforce ideological immersion – this is their definition of the process of “convincing” or “news” – over-writing – “olds”. .
Some do not seek the belief of others but seek to catalyse the testing of hypotheses with others.
Your remarks on flowers show your immersion in at least two aspects of the opponents’ ideologies.
1. The great man in history.
2. Sole or primary agency.
Perhaps a more useful investment would be in
http://www.amazon.com/Stalin-Biography-Dictator-Oleg-Khlevniuk/dp/0300163886/ref=sr_1_sc_1?
and/or
Oleg Khlevniuk – The History of the Gulag – Yale University Press 2004
Neither of these are omniscience but are based on original documents.
Other useful sources could include Vassily Grossman’s Everything flows, Stephen F Cohen’s
The Victim’s return, and Orlando Figes’ The Whisperers, which you ignored last year.
Rest and exercise are good for health, and hence should be prioritised.
Enjoy your journey.
“(….)which you ignored last year.”
I never ignore anything you say/recommend me. I have all ( all I can catch here or in the ether ) bookmarked, only I have not still the time to read such amount of information.
About Koba, I can not help it, I love him, I do not know what will happen when I read all that, but my love, when I give it, is quite unyielding, and perhaps you also should understand Koba as a man of his time, as points Mr. Cohen, with great responsibilities, self-taught, with no major training opportunities, and without forgetting his personal load from his upbringing. Not everyone is resilient enough to avoid the effects of such a hard breeding.
What evil can do some flowers in his tomb? That’s all that I can do for him now, that… and salvage something from what he did right.
“About Koba, I can not help it, I love him”
Your remarks on flowers show your immersion in at least two aspects of the opponents’ ideologies.
1. The great man in history.
“salvage something from what he did right.”
2. Sole or primary agency.
These orientations/practices are not/were not restricted to Mr. Stalin – the broadcast was fuller.
Ideologies are immersive, a metaphor sometimes used is being akin to a swimming pool from which you start to emerge still carrying water droplets on your skin.
“I never ignore”
One of our most unsettling aspects is memory.
The context was Memorial and Mr. Figes – the response aversion due to source.
“I feel like the audience, according to my perception mostly from the countries of the “5 eyes”, was too sure of its own knowledge / belief and was impervious to consider any change of opinion / view on anything or learn something new ( with few exceptons, of course ).”
The opponents encourage others to emote, sometimes known as “feeling”.
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-2/#comment-171706
Enjoy your journey and try to remember that there are more than 36 re
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Just-Andre-Schwarz-Bart/dp/1585670162/ref=sr_1_1?
and the opponents reducing through practice not restricted to pontification.
““5 eyes”
Jazz is popular in Russia as is humour as perhaps you have noticed.
My associates and I find regular amusement in 5 eyes.
There are many variations on a theme
5 with one eye each.
2 with 2 eyes and 1 with one.
1 with 5 eyes.
1 with 4 eyes and 1 with one.
Then some might intone grumpily after forgetting to vist some magasin or other –
Well eyes are only entry points, perception requires a fuller system.
Then some might be tempted to sing Ochi Chornya – with all ensuing verses – likely emphasis on line 2 – and chorus.
The singing might be interupted by –
How do you know it wasn’t a mispelling? It could be ayes not eyes
We are fortunate indeed to have opponents with 5 ayes/eyes.
Oh? And how did the Kremlin and Cairo know it was “structural failure” within minutes?
Anon
Which source do you get that? “Within minutes”? Anon sources have stated unofficially quite a lot of hyperbole so far, but not within minutes though. Unconfirmed, uncorrelated, unchecked info doing the rounds of social networks ago go.
England is the main plotter and it uses usa and islamic sunni terrorusts as her mercenaries.
England needs to be sorted out soon.
Aon, if you make the fine distinction between “England” and “Empire of the City” then folks who come here might take you more seriously.
The pantomime seems to have begun again – maybe it never stopped..
The “folks” of England are of course, an uncouth, barbaric people, and do need to be sorted out soon, some even have flue, and are struggling even more than usual to write coherent sentences.
“Begin at the beginning,” the King said, very gravely, “and go on till you come to the end: then stop.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
The plane was brought down by external force, that’s sure – although Moscow has to be clear to leave no doubt over the exact kind of explosives used in that act of terror.
The “ejaculatio praecox” from the western intel with the leak of a hypothetical bomb on board serves three agendas:
– First, to put pressure on the Russian Gov. by trying to sow fear amongst it’s citizens (which will backfire and hardly work)
– Second, to distract from what really happened
– Third, signalling a diplomatic/political solution/wording towards Moscow through laying out a path of the minimal mutually acceptable: A bomb by Daesh. (although everyone knows who DAESH/ISIS/ISIL really is…)
——–
The 3rd option would be the logical proceeding if there was a third party trying to drive a wedge between Russia and the West. This 3rd force could originate from the Deep State, Ind.Mil.Complex with global Multis as Serco or Thales e.g..
This rougue party could have used the multinational “Blue Flag 2015” AF-exercise in Isreal as a cover for attacking the MetroJet. It could have been a drone as well using Air-Air high velocity impactors with almost no explosives.
After all there do exist entities like Ian Fleming’s “S.P.E.C.T.R.E” in our real world. They use different governments for their globalist goals and purposes.
I suppose all war is shameless
Rupert’s going out of his way to capitalize on this tragedy for his political masters.
From Todays Age newspaper:
‘Vladimir Putin’s silence could bode turbulence ahead’
http://www.theage.com.au/world/vladimir-putins-silence-could-bode-turbulence-ahead-20151105-gks3u0.html
In the article they drag out all the old bodies to demonize Putin
Shameless …. but, I suppose it IS war.
Graeme, I looked up this evil creature, having never seen her ‘product’ before and, yet again, was gob-smacked by the sheer viciousness of the Russophobic hatred and the sheer arrogant effrontery of the lies. The scum who infest the upper ranks of The Western elite grow more vile and dangerous by the day.
“In 2015, an Australian journalist, Helen Womack, who spent over 30 years reporting from Russia was denied accreditation after listing on a nationalist-operated “list of enemies of Russia” website and forced to leave the country”
Mulga, you have to make allowances here -she might be smarting a bit and consequently less than objective. Ha-ha!
I also find it curious that every russophobe, to a man and woman, be they Nuland, Freeland or Womack, say they love Russia.
She calls Putin inarticulate.
Oh?
What strikes me with the ‘Womacks’ of the world, is the sheer viciousness of the hate. The lies flow from that, arrogant, impertinent, repeated even when disproved. The depth and sheer depravity of the lies and hatred is even more marked here in regard to China. Last week there was a segment on the local ABC’s ‘Religion and Ethics Report’, that peddled the old Falun Gong (ie CIA)lies re. China’s organ transplant practises.
This tripe was last ventilated a year or so ago, with a vicious attack on the leading Chinese organ transplant surgeon, to whose defence local medical figures rushed, denouncing the propaganda. But now, they’re back, with the usual vile garbage portraying the Chinese as evil sub-humans, without ‘our attitude to human life’, or ‘any sense of shame’, according to one American ‘academic’ interviewed, and the familiar accusations of vivisection of victims, the proverbial ‘kitchen-sink’. The imbeciles are expected to believe that the evil Chinese only half-kill the executed prisoners, so that they are still alive as their organs are ripped from their bodies. And the ‘atrocities’ and roster of victims have now been extended to Uighurs and ‘Chinese Christians’, in a crude propaganda tactic that would be all too obvious with a population less brainwashed than that of the West. How this shite comes under the heading of ‘Religion’ or ‘Ethics’ is puzzling, but it’s par for the course as we are ruthlessly brainwashed in preparation for war.
More from Womack.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/vladimir-putins-multifront-battle-for-relevance-20151022-gkgd25.html
Completely laughable and lives in her own reality.
***link doesn’t work – modaa
Link worked fine for me; but what a bitter person this Womack is and what vile lies and spin she spews:
“the embarrassing matter of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 seems to have been forgotten, as the Kremlin requires”
and
“Fresh in US President Barack Obama’s memory is the way Mr Putin “came to the rescue” in 2013 when Damascus crossed a US “red line” with its use of chemical weapons. Thanks to Russian diplomacy, the Assad regime was spared American punishment and continued to pursue its side of the deadly civil war”
Like so many of her vicious villainous, vile type, the lies are regurgitated even after they are refuted time after time. An evil liar whose career has been based on creating fear and hatred-the Western presstitute par excrescence.
After the last 500 years, the entire western infrastructure is geared and setup for imperialism. Kind of hard to see for anyone already in the system but very obvious to anyone outside and who are the targets.
The thing is, the very people who don’t believe in imperialism are the ones who support and enable it.
No one can tell me, the soldiers who create and make up strategy who do it to project their country cant see that attacking and killing people half way around the world cant see it. They use some high words.. But when you come down to it, they are no better than the slavers and robber barons of past. At least in the past these people were not using words to feel good about their actions. These days they use patriotism… But these are scum no matter what.. stealing from the poor to make masta rich.. no better than the organ stealers.. attacking the premier Chinese surgeon giving life while themselves taking lives by stealing the organs of the slaves. There is no pride and patriotism involved in blowing pregnant women up.. And ultimately this is what they call their greatest lives achievement.. and western civilization’s greatest moment.. In a few hundred years it sill be synonymous with the wedding party bomber.. go west young lovers.. don’t get married here or the west will get ya..
We are all the targets outside the 1%. Fascism at Home-Imperialism abroad. As the American economy continues to fail producing nothing but fictitious capital…they have only one way out.
WAR!
“they have only one way out.”
Sole agency and determinism in a short phrase?
Looking at a picture of the creature, I thought it was the fragrant Masha Gessen. Have the two ever been photographed in a room together? The sheer vicious imbecility of the lies betray that psychotic hatred that has been a millennial feature of certain groups, now globally highly influential, and they project their hatred far and wide. Little pustules of infection, metastases from the central tumour. Her hate propaganda is certainly unhinged, and one wonders why it took thirty years to expel the hate-mongering creature from the country.
“now globally highly influential”
I realise that the US contends that it has the World Series.
Perhaps “globally highly influential” suffers from a similar process of self-absorption.
And so are the Chinese….their netizen’s are full of American insults and praise for Russia.
Cheers,
RR
I wonder what the Russian government will do if it turns out it was ISIS, what will be their retaliation, they are already bombing ISIS. Perps they will send more troops or send more special forces and attempt to capture or kill ISIS higher-ups.
Russia is bombing in the West, ISIS located in the East. So that’s not true.
Russia is bombing both terrorists USA backs openly in the west and terrorists USA backs more covertly in the east(ISIS) one of the main areas of the Syrian offensive is to liberate the military airbase located in ISIS territory to the east.
I think they will intensify security for Russians abroad. And use intelligence and police action to go after ISIS in other countries. I’m surprised they were not already doing this in Egypt as its popular with Russian tourists. Thats a problem. However, ISIS could be getting help from its sponsors in carrying out this sort of attack. Thats a very big problem.
I don’t think this should change their Syria strategy. Its a horrible tragedy at a human level. But at a geopolitical level its not that big a deal.
“I’m surprised they were not already doing this in Egypt as its popular with Russian tourists [..]”
And that’s the problem I have with this whole story, and not for lack of sympathy to the victims and their grieving families, but why go to Egypt, for any reason whatsoever!?!?
With all that’s been happening for over a decade now in the Middle East, anybody choosing MENA as their holiday destination has to be completely out of his/her mind.
It was bad enough with what happened to MH17, but I doubt the passengers were informed they would be flying over a war-zone when they purchased their ticket. It’s a safe to assume they would have thought they would be flying over Europe and Russia mostly – all reasonably safe areas – and into Malaysia.
But Egypt?!? What’s their excuse? [And by “their” I don’t exclusively mean the victims on the downed Russian plane, I mean all the other idiots lined-up to fly into Egypt or any other MENA destination]
Point being; if you’re going to Egypt, you’re bound to fly over dodgy zones, not to mention Egypt itself is a dodgy country, why go there?
That’s like me saying: Hey, I’m going to Congo! Fantastic weather, delicious African food, exotic culture, awesome natural beauty, and yes… the machete wielding lunatics can be a drag… but hey! The flights are cheap! – (WTF?!?)
I’d looove to visit Egypt, I always wanted to since I was little, and not for their holiday resorts, but to visit the Pyramids, the Museum of Cairo where all the best ancient Egyptian treasures are displayed, the Valley of the Kings (etc). But as much as Egypt was my number one destination since, like, forever, you couldn’t pay me to go there. Not after the “Arab Spring”, and I wasn’t too keen on Mumbarak regime anyway either, not to mention they’re a Muslim nation and you have to follow certain rules which I can’t be bothered with, so no! I can’t go there, doesn’t matter how much I’d like to.
And yes, people should be able to chose where they wanna go and be safe, but that’s not the world we live in, I’m afraid.
So, what is possessing these people to visit these dodgy MENA countries? I’ll tell you what it is! For the most part (those who not going there for work, or to visit family) cheap holiday destinations! That’s what! Can’t they cough-up a bit more cash and go to nice safe countries like Spain, Southern France, Portugal (etc), if they sooooo must have a holiday!? Jeez!
Why turn yourself into cannon fodder, or easy targets, all because it’s cheap to go to certain places rather than others (?).
Oh! And another thing… it’s not like taking holidays abroad is mandatory! You can always choose to stay put, or travel domestically, if you so ‘must.’
-TL2Q
I disagree with some things that you say, but certainly similar sentiment will go through many Russian people’s minds and they will no longer go to Egypt in such large numbers (wasn’t that the purpose of this attack by the US and UK anyway, to damage egypt as Russian ally?).
But I hope they will not choose Spain, Southern France or Portugal as alternatives (where all sorts of sh*t can happen to them because Russia has been demonised so much), but they go to Sochi, or Crimea. This will be the best for them and the best for the economy of Russia.
And, having been to Crimea myself last summer, I was very pleased to learn that Aeroflot and other Russian planes fly over Russia only – no flying over Ukraine thanks god!
Thanks for your answer, Russian Heart:
“(wasn’t that the purpose of this attack by the US and UK anyway, to damage egypt as Russian ally?)”
I doubt Egypt is a Russian ally, specially not under Al-Sisi. They’re as trust worthy as the Turkish regime, I’m sorry to say.
“But I hope they will not choose Spain, Southern France or Portugal as alternatives (where all sorts of sh*t can happen to them because Russia has been demonized so much)”
While I don’t doubt Russia – and by extension the Russian people have been demonized by the utterly corrupt European media, the truth is that they do have a lot of popular support within the regular people (in some EU countries Putin himself is nothing short of a rock star, particularly after his intervention in Syria) well… maybe not in places like the Netherlands, Sweden or Finland, but that’s why I didn’t list them. Also, I did mention those Mediterranean countries because of their weather, they’re relatively warm all year around and not too far from Russia, which is probably the main reason for Russians to choose a holiday destination like Egypt. I could have suggested other safe, sunny places like the Caribbean, but one would think the flights alone are much more expensive purely for being far away.
“[..] but they go to Sochi, or Crimea. This will be the best for them and the best for the economy of Russia”
Absolutely! Crimea and Sochi should be number one destinations for Russians (and non-Russians alike, btw), it’ll keep them safe, they’re beautiful destinations on their own right and it’ll help boost Russian tourist industry. What’s not to like? :)
-TL2Q
Why did they go to Egypt? They had their reasons and probably paid for their vacations well in advance. Anyway millions go every year, the vast vast vast majority return safe and sound. It’s a risk. But then we have had MH17 and the other Malaysian jet that disappeared. Plus 911 and all the rest of them.
Today according to RT,Russia canceled all Russian Airline flights to Egypt until the investigation is complete.
By Ngoyo: “[..] Anyway, millions go [to Egypt] every year, the vast, vast majority return safe and sound. It’s a risk…”
And that was kind of my point. Why risk it? It is really worth it to play silly games with your life and your family’s life (if your traveling with loved ones, particularly minors who have no say in where their parents/custodians takes them without their consent).
Sure, millions go there and get back with no scares at all, but it only takes one ‘disaster’ or one ‘atrocity’ to put things into a rather dark perspective and then it puts an entire nation in mourning.
Not to mention; if this ‘accident’ is proven to be intentional rather than accidental, it’s bound to have huge geopolitical implications [of the WWIII kind].
So! At that point, potentially, you’re not only gambling with your own life or your loved ones lives, but an entire nation and/or nations’ fate.
And under no circumstances whatsoever I trying, nor even implying, to place the blame on the victims [that is a huge no-no on ethics], the blame will forever rest with the actual perpetrators [if proven not to be an accident] and their sponsors, and we all know where that trail leads to… [CIA-USA-Mossad-MI5/6 and the rest of them].
In any case – and I can’t remember how “popular” or “unpopular” this guy is around this specific corner of the internet – but he seems to agree with me. And before I get flamed, being a pessimist myself, I must say I don’t agree with his overall somber message. But! Pessimism – particularly in war times – is always preferable over unfounded optimism:
Dugin on Sinai crash: “These are victims of war just like those in Donbass”
“[..] Russia is in an acute phase of confrontation with the West. We are essentially fighting on several fronts at once. We are winning in some places, and in others we are suffering losses. The innocent people from the plane crash over Sinai are victims of war. Just like all those murdered in Donbass. These are our losses”
“[..] Maybe the Russian government would like to be relieved of the stress, but this is not in the interests of the US. For this reason alone, everything will only continue.
In connection with this, there is a question: does a level of awareness of the seriousness of these challenges exist? It’s clear that the people who flew to Egypt did not think so much about what is happening in the Middle East, Syria, and what happened in Cairo a few years ago. They died returning from vacation, but they were in fact on the front line. If our government doesn’t ban relaxing, then again and again, as if spellbound, we’ll be dragged there again until the next crash of a plane exploded by Islamists or another heartbreaking tragedy”
LINK> http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/dugin-on-sinai-crash-these-are-victims.html
-TL2Q
Egypt supports the Russian intervention in Syria. That won’t make them popular among the Wahabi’s.
@LIz
“I wonder what the Russian government will do if it turns out it was ISIS, what will be their retaliation, they are already bombing ISIS. Perps they will send more troops or send more special forces and attempt to capture or kill ISIS higher-ups.”
It’s quite possible that the purpose of the downing of the airliner (if that what it was indeed) was to draw Russia into sending boots on the ground in Syria. That was my first thought anyway.
Thanks for the analysis Saker.
This tragedy is heartbreaking and on everyone’s mind.
The Oz MSM is screaming the ‘bomb’ theory.
I previously posted this link to Christopher Bollyn who has an interesting article re drone technology and cyberwarfare in relation to how close to the Israel border the plane crashed.
I think it is worth reposting…
‘Suspicions about the Russian Plane Crash”
http://www.bollyn.com/home/#article_15282
B in Oz, thanks for the Bollyn link. Until the idea that hackers can take over an airliners navigation (if so, this capacity has to be systematically eliminated…ASAP!!! Who needs it??) is disproven Saker needs to add Bollyn’s hypothesis as possibility # 4. particularly as that hypothesis seems to uniquely account for the reported gyrations of the plane that may have destroyed it at high altitude.Particularly if no bomb explosive residues are found! Also could explain the pilot’s initial alarm, before things got catastrophically out of hand in first seconds of loss of control.
I don’t know, but if such a capability is real there are apparently numerous instances in recent years, 9-11 thru Sinai, and many in between, where this remote takeover of navigation must be suspected. Is it real??
A couple of quotes from the Bollyn site… in particular ‘victory without leaving fingerprints’
Carmi Gillon suggested that today a terror organization could take over a jet plane and “achieve something like 9-11” without fielding any flesh and blood attackers.
– Carmi Gillon, former head of Israel’s Shin Bet security service, “The double-edged sword of cyber warfare,” Times of Israel, June 24, 2015
“Cyberspace enables the attack of another nation state in offensive action, even reaching victory without leaving any fingerprints, even if it is suspected. We are already there; we are not talking about some distant future. We have experienced this in Israel’s day-to-day actions against its enemies.”
– Israel Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon, Ibid., Times of Israel, June 24, 2015
Regarding Christopher Bollyn’s article at http://www.bollyn.com/home/#article_15282
Ted said: “”Until the idea that hackers can take over an airliners navigation … is disproven Saker needs to add Bollyn’s hypothesis as possibility #4. particularly as that hypothesis seems to uniquely account for the reported gyrations of the plane that may have destroyed it at high altitude. Particularly if no bomb explosive residues are found! Also could explain the pilot’s initial alarm, before things got catastrophically out of hand in first seconds of loss of control.”
Right. The Saker and everyone else may care to look at the graphic in Bollyn’s article entitled “Metrojet flight 7K9268 – raw data from Flightradar24.com”, which shows that “The radical changes in the plane’s vertical speed (i.e. diving and climbing in feet per minute) may have caused the plane to break up at a high altitude.” Bollyn is suggesting that drone technology was used to hijack the Metrojet flight. “The Russian aircraft reportedly broke up in flight. This break-up may have occurred as a result of the extreme forces the plane was subjected to as it went through radical dives and climbs in the last thirty seconds before it disappeared from radar.” The data in the graphic is derived from (or confirmed by) the data given at Flightradar24.com’s page at http://www.flightradar24.com/blog/crash-of-metrojet-flight-7k9268/
Which entity in the vicinity of the Metrojet flight is likely to have the technology to have enabled it to electronically hijack that plane, cause it to go through “radical dives and climbs” way past what the plane was designed to handle, resulting in the plane breaking up and falling to the ground?
“even reaching victory without leaving any fingerprints, even if it is suspected. “
Obviously that part does’nt work very well, since what they did, how they did it and who they are is generally on the internets shortly after the event!
R. Roth posits the same scenario for the planes in 911: the planes were taken over by a system installed years earlier that allowed ground based personnel to control all systems on the planes, including the plane-to-ground as well as the internal system.
I have read both her books: “Methodical Delusion” and “Methodical Deception.” They are novelizations of her research. (www.methodicaldeception.com) R. Roth is the first person with genuine credentials and experience to address the whole issue of what happened to the planes and passengers. She has persuaded me that the planes and passengers were diverted to Westover Air Base in Massachusetts and the calls from passengers that could not have been made from the planes in 2001 were made after the planes were on the ground in hangers at that air base.
video interviews: 9-10-15 9/11 BOMBSHELL: METHODICAL DECEPTION — Rebekah Roth
1:14:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdP95oSoOFk&feature=youtu.be
11-2-15 METHODICAL DECEPTION: Neocons, Mossad & Premeditated Murder
48:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjOqcGSTL5M&feature=youtu.be
Those videos are excellent. Her research led me toinvestigate the Gelatin.net website. It is a Mossad front full of homosexual Zionist psychopath “artists” it is currently holding an exhibition in London. The real proof however is that the men who planted the explosives were part of the E-team (Emergency Team) and the sick ***** even have a current Netflix show detailing their false flag activities in Syria right now!!! GUESS WHO IS A CURRENT MEMBER OF THE E-TEAM…JAMES FOLEY THE FAKE BEHEADED MOSSAD AGENT…PROOF IS HERE: http://www.eteamfilm.com/#!contact/c16fm
The E-team is literally a multi decade front for Mossad and its Zionist Austrian members in 2001 were the psychos that physically planted the nano thermite in the towers. Their names are a matter of public record…they ever advertise their abilities to the world security services via this front “art” group
James Foley is a current member of the E-team Mossad cell that planted the explosives on 9/11…The gelatin.net hit squad and the E-team are currently still active murdering for Israel…The sick paedophiles still advertise their work and even have a new Netflix show!
Proof: http://www.eteamfilm.com/#!filmmakers/c18xe
Ted on November 06, 2015 · at 4:02 am UTC wrote:
“is it real ?”
The system is called ‘The Boeing-Honeywell uninterruptable autopilot’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Honeywell_Uninterruptible_Autopilot
Since the system exists, you can be sure that UNIT 8200 has all the details (passed to them – no questions asked – by the NSA).
http://www.bollyn.com/home/#article_15282 reports that
“UNIT 8200 – Israel’s main satellite signal intelligence facility – is located on Kibbutz Urim, less than 60 miles NNE of the location where the Russian plane went down. UNIT 8200, an institution of computer hackers, is the largest branch of the IDF and is responsible for the military’s offensive cyber capabilities.”
Wake up Saker !
I highly doubt Israel had anything to do with this or 911, Israel sent some information on 911 which the us decided to ignore and they sent people to follow up, the students interviewing people and the ones filming.. Since that was an inside job, Cheney and gang had to discredit any Israeli narrative. Israel is in an existential threat mode, they would never piss off a super power. They are good at blackmailing the US but not Russia. They did try but Putin called their bluff about arming Ukraine and Georgia. They have also come out and said they have no comment on the political process in Syria, it is none of their business. They can threaten UK, france, Germany, iran etc.. But countries like china, Russia, india etc they have never threatened. Anyone really think something that could wipe them off the map for real will even be considered? Anyone seen Israeli tv shows? They do quite a few good ones, compared to American shows, the reality is striking. They do try to show iran as a bad guy, but they never try to make iran as a super villain, just another villain. What I mean to say is, they are reality bound, they take risk/reward into every action. They are not going on hubris, they know they are no match for any real army no matter how good they are. If they alienate Russia, they also throw away china, india, brazil and south Africa in just one shot. Also their chance in the EEU.
Now could a stray missile have done it? If so I would have expected them to have contacted the Russians and accepted responsibility. It would cost them, but that is money and reputation but it would not be existential.. Just imagine, Russia secretly arming Hezbollah.. With latest TGM and Manpads.. The new ones can hit 8-10KM unlike the old ones of 4-5KM.. The new ATGM can take out any modern tank, the active system is only good for 1 in 4 chances.. So even with their tech advances they are looking at going against hamas with a 80% chance of getting blasted.. Not good odds.. Seems Syrian airforce is getting A2A missiles in case Russia has to leave Syria.. Syria is getting S300 and greyhounds.. Israel seems to be locked out of Syria already.. Imagine if Syria can hit all of Israel and lock down Israeli air space.. Anyone really think someone would do anything where they would be defeated even with out war? The risk/reward is so huge that even the business loss of not having Russian companies sell Israel gas from the stolen territories would end up costing trillions.. In every way, Israel has more to lose here than everyone else combined.. It would be the end of the state.. And no one would even need to fire a single shot to do it.
IF Israel was going to do anything, they would have done it to some small European country and blamed iran.. Or taken out an Iranian airline.. I doubt Israel would do any thing where its existence would be in danger… nutyahoo yells and screams and practices bitch slapping everyone.. but real actions??
Nice try UNIT 8200…but we can see through your Hasbara Sayanim lies.
Please refute all evidence presented here clearly delineating Israel’s involvement with 9/11 : https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it
The members of E-team and Gelitin “art” groups and their B-thing demolished those towers with the consent of senior US Continuity of Goverment officials within the Pentagram and the CIA, NSA etc. Zionist traitors positioned within all the FIVE EYES and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan consented to this murder for the promise of arms sales, stolen resources and protection of the petrodollar system. But they were all betrayed as the Zionists merely used the Goyim debtslaves to expand their territory for a GREATER ISRAEL whilst continuing to infiltrate their next host victim China…but the Goyim will not sleep forever and I SEE FEAR IN THE FIVE EYES…:)
See also http://israeli-connections-to-911.com/2015/08/28/part-1-4/
Yes, FEAR IN THE FIVE EYES. They know their dirty secrets are starting to be revealed.
Good analysis; I’d knock out (B) and add a distant fourth possibility – there are one or two belly tanks on an A-321 in the fuselage luggage/freight area just behind the root of the wings. An electrical spark could have ignited fuel vapour.
A small point but I believe the set altitude was for FL320 which it never reached -the 33,500 is almost certainly erroneous and caused by the shock wave/skewed airframe giving false ambient pressure on the static vents.
Those that have analysed the ADS-B packets (which is what flight tracker etc. use for height, position, speed on any aircraft) have noticed impossible information in the last ‘normal’ moments of flight before the plunge.
” There are three packets within three seconds reporting altitude 29750, 30975 and 33275, and clearly all of them can’t be right. The aircraft was at 30750 just prior to this time”
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/569907-breaking-news-airliner-missing-within-egyptian-fir-11.html
good info there in your link, thanks!
It is unknown if the crashed plane had auxiliary tanks. They are generally fitted for long haul apparently, but the wing and center tanks were more than sufficient for Egypt to Saint Petersburg.
Electrical fault in the fuel tank causing a spark? Possible, but petrol is far more flammable than jet fuel (kerosene) and petrol cars have electric fuel pumps and bare electrics on the fuel gauge resistor inside the tank.
In addition to belly tank fumes I am thinking more of fuel leakage and electrical sparking. It’s a very remote possibility but should not be discounted. If the rear pressure bulkhead blew out like the 747 in Japan it could take out the fuel lines to the APU and start a fire but even there an explosive fireball as seen in the video is only likely in a Hollwood movie. Assuming the video is real.
On Pprune there’s a lot of informed discussion about the APU and the rear pressure bulkhead.
Elsewhere the latest conspiracy theory is an Israeli airborne laser.
Looking at the comments on Pprune, most seem to think there was a fuel fire on the ground. This is where I differ, as aerial shots and close up shots of the wing show virtually no ground fire. From the aerial shots, slight sooting of the ground can be seen in a couple of places behind the wing, but from the closeups, unburnt wreckage can be seen under the leading edge of the burnt wing.
I think what most people are missing – that type of windswept arid country has an oxidised surface, perhaps iron oxide that is very dark to black. Kick the surface and the true colour of the ground shows. It can be seen by the wheel tracks and also where debris has hit and disturbed the surface. I have lived and worked in that type of country.
So I am beginning from what I believe is the fact that there was no fuel in either of the wing tanks nor the the center tank/s when the wing section hit the ground. For both wing tanks to drain so quickly yet the complete wing remain intact is very odd.
There is the remote possibility of some sort of fuel explosion that was not deliberate, but given the political situation, the threats / warnings that have been given, the actors involved, if an explosion has caused the crash then it is very likely to have been deliberate.
I have learned that, unlike Boeing, all the electrical stuff is external to the fuel tanks on Airbuses so the vapour theory, as suggested in TWA-800 is next to impossible.
Pprune also had discussions on the jack screw for horizontal stab. as in the Alaskan Airlines disaster; I think the general thinking was towards that not explaining the damage seen.
I don’t know if when the A321 broke apart at altitude whether the fuel dump was activated such that the majority of fuel was evacuated from the wings before ground impact? Just a suggestion.
This tragic event appears to be another Lockerbie incident. The Russian authorities will discover who was involved with the planning, funding, execution and the means of escape committed by the perpetrators of this heinous act. Russia will not let this stew in the pot of international intrigue. It will remain an active case until solved.
Who stood to gain from doing this and who had the means to do it? We should explore this while we wait for the “official’ Russian response.
1. United States ISIS proxy command –
2. NATO –
3. The Saudi monarchy –
4. Israel –
5, Russian opposition to Putin’s government –
6. European Union –
7. Poroshenko’s crime syndicate in Kiev –
8. Egyptian government –
9 ???? –
I just posted an interesting theory that involves the downing of the Russian jet. Look at the recent update and footnote for details. Thanks
gc
http://greencrowasthecrowflies.blogspot.ca/2015/11/french-ngo-msf-still-wondering-why.html
Greencrow, thanks for the very insightful article.
Adding yet more outrage to last month’s US attack on a Doctors Without Borders (MSF) hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan, MSF has revealed that several of the slain staff members, including doctors were shot by US pilots while trying to flee from the bombed hospital into other parts of the compound.
US Pilots Shot Fleeing Doctors During MSF Hospital Attack:http://news.antiwar.com/2015/11/05/us-pilots-shot-fleeing-doctors-during-msf-hospital-attack/
Peter, just another ‘turkey-shoot’, the way the heroes of the US prefer them.
Most if not all commentators seem to be conspicuously avoiding the other possibility that an attack could have been carried out, not by ISIS, but by another actor in the conflict – why is this explanation nowhere to be seen?
ISIS is just a brand name in which a number of states have shares.
I can’t see a fanatical, hairy, useful idiot sneaking into the airport to plant a bomb. More likely to be one of the brands owners, then the brand takes responsibility.
Peter-exactly. One of the doped-up liver-munchers-not likely. But a Special Forces expert? Absolutely! And they are, bit by bit, exposing their ‘inside knowledge’ like the bullies they are, as if daring Putin to ‘do something about it’, while their MSM scum spread lies and disinformation, as ever. I think we just entered the Final Countdown to WW3.
Which actor would that be? It is not Syria; put simply they have neither the motive, nor the resources to do so. It is not the government of Egypt, because they need all the (declining) tourist income they can get, and they certainly cannot afford to be caught red-handed committing an act of war against Moscow. If you believe that ISIS is a creation of NATO+Israel+Saudi Arabia, that would suggest it is either the jihadis themselves, or the individual espionage agencies of each NATO country, Saudi Arabia, and Mossad.
Am I missing any other actors?
Dick Lenning, Turkey. Egypt charges that Turkish intell is behind the ISIS, et al attacks in Sinai. They arrested an 18-member group of Turks, headed by a colonel in MIT + at least 4 other intell guys.
Does anybody know for sure whether Israel’s international air drill really ended on Oct 29? We haven’t considered air-to-air. Seems to me the US is awfully anxious to make us think it was a bomb. If they have a satellite photo showing a “flash”, why not provide it?
I completelly agree with that statements. I know there were some drills in that region at that time. And find very suspicious that the anglozionists jumped to clumpsy conclusions in such a hurry. Preparing the MSM bed of lies??
I included Turkey under NATO, but point taken.
Been looking trohught the comments for the one possibility that Saker seemed to have missed and that is air-to-air. So you may have a realisitc option.
With all the satellite surveilance of the area, an air launched missile may be foolhardy, but with stealth technology, what then? And who has stealth technology? Why those apple pie eaters and no doubt in my mind that they would gladly share it with their Middle East allies, especially Israel.
Latest news is that a child’s body was found 25k back along the flight path. This seems to be wrong as I have checked positions of debris fields and position of first blip in flightradar24 data.
The tail debris field is 500-1000 meters E-N/E of the longitude and latitude of the first blip in the flight data.
All data before this point was absolutely normal.
Flight tracker 24 data is not 100% reliable as you might have noticed the raging discussions on the pilots forum.
On the ground search teams from ERMECOM found the child. Debris is widely scattered as shown by both Russian sat images of debris field.
Debris fields are in a very small area 3km from tail to nose
A British tabloid runs a story and everyone takes it as fact? No thanks. I’l stick to what is known.
Photos and data.
For a number of factors such as poor maintenance, counterfeit parts, chasing the bottom line especially for cut-price airlines and harmonic aeroelastic oscillation leading to an aircraft breaking up in mid-air this below makes for interesting reading.
I am not suggesting any of these factors are relevant today or to Flight 9268 nor am I pushing sensationalist FUD. This all happened over 25 years ago -1989.
From an analysis viewpoint though it is indicative of the number of factors sometimes required for a catastrophe and the fact that removal of any one of them could often have negated the incident entirely.
In short, non-authentic bolts holding vertical stabilzer were not heat treated properly and had only 60% of the strength that they were supposed to have, one of the two generators required for legal flight could not be fixed and so the crew ran the APU (auxiliary power unit) that is normally only running on the ground and which, unknown to the pilots, had a broken mount. The vibration foced the rudder over giving aerodynamic forces that broke the plane apart:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnair_Flight_394
Even Air-Force One had ersatz parts and I seemed to recall the stink over that at the time.
Valid points made there. It is quite possible for the integrity of the HS or even the VS to made been compromised, or the very least weakened. Any accident investigator worth his or her salt will look at every aspect with a process of elimination. What is difficult to understand from open sources is the unequal in flight burning of parts of the aircraft, with one engine remaining untouched and the other totally burnt.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility of a series of chain events taking place, that we know took place very suddenly. Having done a little time on airframes work, a long time ago, repairing damaged historical aircraft, it is nevertheless interesting to compare.
My professional contact in Moscow writes as follows:
“Thank you for your words of condolence. No one person whom I know suffered. Our computer manager had returned from Egypt just a few days before the catastrophe. I was surprised to his fearlessness to have vacation in Egypt. Russians often do not care much about risks to their life. Many have traveled to Egypt, although in my view this was always a risky place. I mean the terrible catastrophes with tourist buses that had happened many times on Egyptian roads.
I suspected from the very beginning that the A-321 catastrophe was a response of the ISIS terrorists on the Russian campaign in Syria. If the Egyptian officials now confirm that this was a bomb, then it seems to be true, because they initially preferred alternative versions not deteriorating the reputation of Egypt as a resort for Russians.
I agree that this terrible crime has many dimensions. On the one hand, I am afraid that the terrorist attacks on Russian planes may continue. On the other hand, this is the sign that Russian military actions in Syria are really very effective and painful for the terrorists. ”
Anent the last comment, can one infer that Russian attacks have been much more effective than American ones, hence, revenge on Russians? Or, perhaps it is an opportunistic crime, and there are no American airliners flying over the Sinai.
Katherine
Katherine,
The ISIS “did it alone” theory seems weak to me. If retribution for Russia attacking the terrorists in Syria was the objective, why hasn’t the U.S. suffered the same fate since they have returned to combat ISIL, etc. in Iraq? The Benghazi Libyan attack in 2012 targeted embassy personnel and CIA assets not innocent civilians.
I’m more inclined to believe a nation State provided the intelligence, plan and money behind the murders of those Russian tourists. The question is; who was it?
PTT 3:46
Yeah, I agree. This IS did it without help theorizing strikes me as disinformation intended to point the fingers away from the zionazis/nazis. If the plane was attacked, it’s obvious it was a state entity behind it. And that means Isreal-America ultimately.
yeah vt…I agree too, sorry to have to say this but a white guy getting on board a plane with a bomb, is an easier task these days, than a Muslim…terrible to say, but could this also be true in Egypt ?
From my reading on the aviation forum, the plane was on the ground for twelve hours in Egypt.
From a contributor who had spent time as ground crew, there is very little security on catering and dunny cart at any airport let alone Egypt.
Apparently most security goes into checking passengers.
Daash is 100% Made by the USA, with assistance from its stooges, so any way you look at it the ultimate responsibility is with Mordor-on-the-Potomac. There is no need for a suicide bomber at all, just a parcel put on the plane. Air Cubana Flight 455 comes immediately to mind as a precedent.
That nation state which had all history of evil dping in middle east and against russia is england.
Needs to be sorted out by the world community.
“perhaps it is an opportunistic crime, and there are no American airliners flying over the Sinai”
Katherine, I think that revenge on Russia is part of the motivation, and also revenge on Egypt, which, as someone said here, is a shaky ally of Russia, and thus may look like beeing an easy target for shaking completely out of this alliance with the economic damage The Saker attested to this operation, adding that he does not understand its aim… However, I am convinced that strategic damaging of the self-esteem and the exterior image of the attacked is much more important: if you can demoralize your enemy and its allies much earlier, he falls into your greedy hands without your needing to combat him – as proved in WW3 (RU counting) in 1989.
This is what I think about this series of Smolensk – Grabovo – Sinai, and the sly MAK lies re Smolensk may turn out to not just have been “a fast one on Joey” ((c) Eric Berne) but “c’est pire qu’un crime, c’est une faute” ((c) Putin’s colleague, Joseph Fouché) – Russia’s credibility did not suffer then, in 2010, but may now: “You cant’t trust their aircraft crash investigations”.
I am much interested in what your professional contact in Moscow thinks about Elena R** (born 1980-11-01) having been a passenger of this plane, and what her being killed among others may mean in the strategic-psychologic-esoteric sphere where the questions of overall victory or defeat seem to be processed and decided. I found her name in the complete passenger list as published on http://www.gazeta.ru/social/2015/10/31/7863983.shtml#, and I assume that an american airliner whithout this passenger on board would have encountered no problems, even when flying over Sinai for Brisco Travel.
forgotten in my comment which “awaits moderation”: Elena R*** on board may have been of enough symbolical (“magical”) value to destroy the whole plane for her, but other bits work in the same direction – e.g. that the A321 in question made his first flight on 1997-5-9: destroying R*** and and a child of Victory Day with one stroke…
bp
One of Orwell’s major points is how the basic tools of human communication (language) are weakened by Totalitarian Oligarchs, through their media and means of mis-education/brainwashing.
*A need for correct translation is evident.*
1. ISIS and the other Mid-East and South-East European Terrorist Groups are not just some loose floating ethnic groups of unhappy dislocated Arabs, perhaps under the influence and employ of the Imperialist powers, but………..
These terrorist Groups ARE the Jewish and Americans Financial Oligarch Elite, with some help from the English and the French and the Turkish and other junior partners. They are them. They are they. With a few Arabs and Muslims thrown in to flavor/season the terrorist mix. They are nothing else, but……….
2. A Global World War is being waged – between those still capable of loving, and those already spiritually dead. The war is not quite Nuclear, yet, although it is getting more vicious by the day. The parameters of hope are limited by whether or not the sheeple in the imperialist nations become Citizens and come over from the Dark Side – and, like Mighty Mouse, save the day.
Are You Listening?
I don’t expect you Democrat gang members and others who have given up all hope and worship at the bar of the Zionist American Bought Congress and one dimension approved 2 gang electoral circus of dems and repubs, to agree with this Anarchist. That is fine. But, Are You Listening/Reading? Do you realize what your leaders have done? [I believe Vladimir Putin just asked that question.]
The Russians, Syrians, Palestinians, Lebanese, Iraqis, Iranians, Yeminis, even Ron Paul, and a few other Americans, are doing their best. They are in a war! We are in a War! What the Hell do you think is going on out there?
On the other side of the planet, the Chinese military and the American military are making armed passes at each other in the Pacific, as Heavily Radiated Water continues to be flushed from Fukushima – toward California. Do you think only Anarchists can make this stuff up?
**On a lighter note, and to put things in perspective, which is the point of this missive. The people officially in charge of the Kiev Junta are no more incompetent, cruel, or corrupt, (actually substantially less so), than the Zionist owned Congress in DC. And Poroshenko, unlike Obomber, is not a Hollywood actor, and is not responsible for fronting for even 1% of the imperialist murders that Obomber has fronted for.**
“The Horror The Horror” We must work/fight to end the horror. But to end it, we must understand its true dimensions, and take off those rose colored glasses.
For the Democratic Republics!
IMAGINE
Hi Peter, do you think any sheeple read Saker’s ? Are you listening ? Is what you asked…
Considering this is a Western created site by an ex pat and every one here speaks English, Yes We are all listening. And this communication in the age of the internet they cannot stop so far. And thanks to Saker. it is going around the world in so many languages. I have hive like experiences often where the words I am reading seem to be coming out of my own mouth. Not bad Cross Talk the other day a few of them seem to be getting it also.
Yours,
RR
Ann,
Yes, some sheeple do read The Saker, and that is a good thing.
Some still ask, who they should vote for (of the media approved slate of Zionist bought traitor candidates). They have no concept of, let alone desire to face the truth, confront the controlling Terrorist Oligarchs, and restore the Republic.
Saving their Nation and the world appears to them to be such an impossible task, that they surrender in advance. Many mask their surrender with cynicism and feigned ignorance and endlessly repeated questions. Or, they pretend courage; “oh Sanders sounds interesting” “Trump tells it like it is” “Obomber does his best, but they just won’t listen to that kind decent man.” Add your special BS here……
Meanwhile, nation after nation burns. The Mid-East is being depopulated (as was Jericho), for the rebirth of the Greater Judah.
Americans still won’t publicly admit what occurred on November 22, 1963. The rest of the peoples of the world also hesitate to mention that date. [Why is that?]
The coffee is wearing off.
Love all you guys/gals & Sheryl Crow!
For the Democratic Republics!
IMAGINE
I really cannot stand this sort of class bigotry. These types of posts should be removed.
RR
RR, that’s funny that you are offended by the term ‘sheeple’…Paul Criag Roberts – do you know him ? He’s a really good writer on the topics we discuss here….he uses that term all the time, and so we all do too…many of his fans also read Saker.
I guess it was shocking to me too, when I first heard it…I got offended because of the abuse of the idea of poor sheep….
But now its really a dictionary term for people who won’t wake up…
Paul Craig Robert’s Here is what he says..oh yes it’s terrible…and nothing we can do about it. Where is the political upshot of his analysis. NONE DEFEAT! Every article of his your read he tell you you are beat!
RR
It does seem a demeaning term.But that’s because its meant to be.Its really pathetic that so many people (hopefully with functioning brains,and at least some native commonsense) would continually let themselves be fooled by the government and media lies.In the Soviet Union the majority of people were able to recognize overloads of propaganda over the years.If they could,what is our excuse.My only qualm with the “sheeple” term is that it is used constantly.It should be varied with,fools,idiots,saps,etc.I think people using that term want to be as “pc” as possible.But it gets boring seeing the same term over and over.And doesn’t really portray the depth of disgust with their behavior it should (that’s my two cents).
I think it is part of a strategy of tension introduced by limited hangouts like inforwars. Keep degrading your self folks. I will make it that much easier to round you up and put you in the oven.
Cheers,
RR
“I think it is part of a strategy of tension”
If it is so, is it your contention that such a strategy would be wholly adverse?
“that such a strategy would be wholly adverse?”
Evaluation is a function of purpose, perspective, opportunity and facility.
Another view on “communication strategies”.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article189212.html
Sheeple and Charlie Hebdo
1. Sheeple is not actually a term of “class” bigotry. Sheeple denotes no particular “class,” working class, petite bourgeois, ruling class, capitalist, or feudal, or any other class.
I could vary my choice of descriptions in the future. I have used “rubes” on more than one occasion, but could also interspace with the suggested “fools,idiots,saps,” as necessary.
2. On a more serious note: concerning the recent Horrific Cartoon celebrating the Zionist/American/ISIS destruction of the Russian civilian airliner in Egypt, (the cartoon was designed at the Zionist Center for the Arts in Washington DC, and placed in their-terrorist magazine, “Charlie Hebdo”).
Je ne suis pas Charlie.
* I hope for more comment from The Saker, who understood these Charlie Hebdo scum, from the first.
Look, people, ordinary people can be misled. Many of the same good Russian people who now support Putin so wholeheartedly (and are proven correct in doing so) thought that America’s ‘help’ during the change from the USSR was a wonderful thing – if I had been Russian I might have thought so too. But it wasn’t. And for many the rot that has infected the US government has been such a slow happening, their memories of better times so clear – they didn’t realize it could be possible.
We oldies are like the old Communists who can remember that the regime wasn’t all bad for them personally. We indeed participated in the downward spiral simply out of trust that our leadership meant what it was saying. All of the world, Russia included, did so also. The US had built up a peacetime image that benefited my and my parents’ generations. That started to erode with the multiple leadership assassinations and Vietnam. I often think many of America’s potential leaders perished then, along with so many victimized in South Asia. And all who seemingly survived were maimed by those experiences.
Calling us sheeple may make you feel virtuous but you are simply blaming the victims. We are not the ones who lied; we are the ones who were lied to. There are a few who still refuse to see, but their numbers are diminishing. How can one choose leadership in a country where those who can run for office are already corrupt, weak, subject to unknown dangers no sane person would wish to face? It’s really, really hard. The person has to have that core of integrity that reinforces his words by his deeds. And be self-sacrificingly brave to boot. Not many of such around, especially these days.
The loss of trust has been a gradual process because once there were people, ordinary people with faults aplenty, who faced the dangers and ran the political gantlet having to make compromises we can all criticize – and we were lucky to manage to elect the right ones, as Russians did with Putin – or we took what we thought was a new path that turned out to be a worse one, as US citizens did with Obama. We are all the same people, the same human race. We want to choose well.
juliania
You (the sheeple) are not “the victims” (as you call yourself). The victims are the Vietnamese – 2 million dead, the Indonesians – 1 million dead, the Guatemalans – 100,000 dead, the Palestinians, no Homeland, the Syrians, the Libyans, the Iraqis, 1 million dead, the Afghanis, the Novorossyans, the Yemenis, the Serbians, and a dozen other nations. The Sheeple are not the victims, they are the sheeple, the rubes, the fools, idiots, saps, and a few other names I can think of, but they are definitely Not the victims. Now, the Kennedys, ML King, Malcolm X, Lennon, and you’re getting warm.
The $64,000 Question is:
Now that you know, what will you do?
“To be or not to be, – that is the question:” Shakespeare
*It is not a question of “want to choose well” (as you express it). In other words, expecting others to magically appear, perfectly, morally formed, ready to storm the barricades and do battle for you. That approach will always allow excuses. Well, Obomber “promised” “looked good” “was black” “had a nice smile” “was a democrat,” & much the same for the other professional wrestlers.
Now that you know, what will you do?
There is an easy way out…….
You can always shoot the messenger.
You can always shoot the Anarchist.
Same person.
For the Democratic Republics!
IMAGINE
I was not making excuses, nor was I expecting others to storm the barricades. I will say that we agree on some of the heroes, Mr. Antonsen, and I will not call you a sheeple for putting John Lennon in that mix, even though I don’t consider he belongs in the leadership class. I love his beautiful music and I’m sorry he died.
The point I was making was that it serves no purpose to insult ordinary people whose lives you cannot begin to imagine. It’s a bit like claiming percentages of casualties in war – they are all horrific. I can imagine one such death and be in mourning – that is human nature. I am using your big word IMAGINE. I don’t think you do Mr. Lennon credit. The imagining you are doing is the opposite of the imagining he did.
““To be or not to be, – that is the question:” Shakespeare”
Perhaps not the best quotation for certain purposes since doubt, inertia and self-absorption facilitated outcomes not only for Mr. Hamlet but for others.
I was once at a performance of the play in Moscow during the 1990’s when some in the audience
intoned during the speech the Russian equivalent of “Just get on with it”.
Perhaps Hamlet is not a good “role model” in times of accelerated change.
During these times Mr. Beckett’s Waiting for Godot enjoyed some popularity especially amongst some sections of the former nomenklatura known as “intellectuals” waiting for a saviour.
Perhaps that may have resonances in context?
The unpeopled might not have much say in things, but you cant say they dont try.. If 10% of germans can take a broken down bankrupt country on the verge of collapse into the terror that scared the most powerful empire in the world.. It shows what a small number of people can achieve when they put their mind to it, A victim will always remain a victim until he decides to change the situation. It is hard, very very hard.. Going along with injustice makes you a sheepie…
The sheepie are not victims, they live the high life.. And as long as they get their iphones, the suffering of others are not their concern.. When it does become their concern and they decide to do something, then they become the victims.
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/321154-elites-unpeople-west-democracy/
Peter, how do you know the filthy Charlie Hebdo cartoon was created elsewhere? I don’t doubt it, because the sheer, vicious, hatred behind it, and the utter lack of human empathy and compassion is a trademark of fundamentalist Judaism.If the plane had been El Al full of Israeli Jews, you would not see this sort of ‘cartoon’, you can be sure of that. And if it did, anywhere, there would be a firestorm of rage and abuse from the Sabbat Goyim, and ‘Freedom of Opinion’ would disappear in a trice.
Mulga,
I believe that Rag “Charlie Hebdo,” is prepared elsewhere, (at least its major political content is decided upon by the Zionist/American Oligarchs – as it is for almost all of the mainstream media). For absolute proof, I would need the investigative infrastructure of a major, or at least medium size, world power (nation). Then I could follow the $paychecks, phone & email instructions, and other day to day operational patterns of the rag.
Certainly, it would be a surprise if the immoral wrecks who prepare the rag were permitted to make the major political statements (such as that cartoon epitomized), all by themselves.
We mere mortals make our best judgements, concerning the deeds of others, by relying on clues they provide, and their (repeated) operational patterns. It is rare when they let slip clear evidence of their crimes. Although their cartoons leave little doubt as to their heartless, bloodthirsty inhumanity, and their complete lack of any sense of (actual) humor.
It is my best guess. If I am wrong, it would be the first time.
IMAGINE
Peter, I see. No absolute proof but an informed surmise, with which I have to concur. I was just listening to the radio today as I planted some trees and vainly weeded, and there was yet another story about some poor Jew who had had their precious art-work stolen, by the Nazis, and-can you believe it- it’s going to be turned into a movie! That’s getting to be a crowded genre, very quickly. Then a story on Iraqi music, but, who would have thought it- it was all composed by Jews. Much wailing and lamentation about the the Iraqi Jews that cannot visit Baghdad any more (none concerning the two million dead Iraqi goyim murdered since 1990, of course)and-happy days- it’s a movie already.
Not that I would recommend that real Jewish suffering be as ignored as, say, Roma suffering, Soviet or Chinese suffering during WW2, or even Palestinian suffering (a slightly different case as they are generally portrayed as roundly deserving their suffering)is, but the way it is drummed into our heads, day in day out, as if the Jews were some sort of Chosen People whose affairs matter more than those of any other people, is really annoying. That you are not allowed to notice this queer situation, let alone mention it, in polite society, however, is very, very, off-putting. I hate to say something so ‘antisemitic’ but I actually think Jews are just like the rest of us, and their human worth is not one jot more or less than any other human being.
I home you are comforted in your illusions.
RR
A method of communication to give authority previous to actually providing any evidence as in what it actually means is…sorry. I am not going to school you either.
Cheers,
RR
There is a 4th possible cause – that is no longer in the realm of science fiction:
d. New technology ‘energy’ type weaponry.
There are also ‘conspiracy theorist’ reports of military exercises between US-Israel on the border.
Whilst I cannot confirm that, it most certainly fits a now recognisable pattern, and would be a first stop investigation.
Tin foil hat nutter you may label me – but AngloZio MSM push, push, pushing the “bomb on board” narrative makes it the LEAST likely imo.
And this was most likely a technology demonstration message to Russia … fulfilling the proxy force “IS” promise a convenient cover, and punishing Egypt’s disobedience in joining the ‘wrong’ alliance.
Hi DeeCT – well that direct energy weaponry needs an electric field and on and on….I doubt that was it.
There was probably a suicide bomber on board…I wonder how big a bomb is, that could be ‘sneaked’ on board….either in a suitcase or in a shoe, or some underwear ?
According to the sleuthing done by Rebekah Roth in her 0911 investigations, all those underwear – shoe etc hijack- bombers coincidently had the same airport security agency.
I see the Anglo press are making far more noise about Sharm el Sheik airport security than was ever aired on 0911.
I remain a cynic on any narrative pushed by the Anglo’s.
A cynic…you are very polite. I call it B.S
Yours,
RR
V E R Y _ I M P O R T A N T
Talking of airport security…
Edward over at SyrPer writes:
” I traveled through Russia two months back. In Moscow SVO, the check-in counter personnel asked a man if the passport of every passenger is OK for check in. he scanned the passport into his notebook computer and physically checked verified it and then gave OK.
I asked who is this person. Answer: He is the airlines security. I asked about his badge. I was told that he works for a Russian security company. I said his accent is not Russian. He works for a Russian company that is a branch of a European company. I said he does not look or talks like a European. He is an Israeli who works for a Russian Security company which is a branch of a European company with headquarters in Israel. I said, yes, that makes sense because Israelis provide best security.
They agreed and told me that the passenger document scans, body searches, luggage searches, food security, airplane cleaning, garbage collection, and airplane and airport security are all handled by Israeli company. In Moscow Vnukovo and in St. Petersburg and in Kazan and in Novosibirsk, Israelis provided all security.
I asked an airline executive why is that a big country like Russia can’t provide its own security? He explained that, if Russian airlines and airports do not use one of the approved security firms, the airplanes from Russia will be deemed unsafe and will not be allowed to travel to Europe/US. All the security companies in the list approved by FAA are Israeli owned.
Then I noticed all airports all around the world, including Asia, Middle East (even Dubai and Mecca where Israeli citizens are not allowed to enter the country), Egypt, and China use local Security companies, which are branches of European/American companies with headquarters in Israel. (Iran and North Korea are exceptions. But they don’t fly outside.)
US is forcing them to use Israeli companies or be banned from Europe and US. Israeli companies decide who gets on an airplane and what bags/items are loaded onto the plane, anywhere in this world. If any bombs explode on any airplane anywhere, you know who placed it there.”
V E R Y _ I M P O R T A N T
further, Edward over at SyrPer wrote:
” Russia used to fly Russian made TU planes. But now all Russian companies have ditched TU planes and use Boeing or Airbus.
I asked the question to a charter company CEO. I was told that if they did not use an aircraft from an approved manufacturer, that airplane and the airplanes from that company will be deemed unsafe and will not be allowed to enter Europen/US airspace.
The FAA approved aircrafts are Boeing and Airbus. When Russia built their Sukhoi Superjet, they used American engines and controls. The Chinese airplanes are fitted with American engines as well. Still they are not approved for European / US airspace.
So, everybody in the world has to use Boeing/Airbus.
Boeing and Airbus aircraft need to be regularly serviced by their personnel in their own shops. These facilities are invariably Israeli owned. There are no facilities in Russia to service Boeing or Airbus.
CIA/Mossad can fit any of these aircraft with whatever they want, including remote controls and spying equipment, during scheduled maintenance. So, if you see an Airbus or Boeing disappear or go straight down, don’t be surprised.”
Russia/China need their own passenger jets.
And fast. I know they are working on it, but it has to be accelerated.
It’s actually Stage III noise regulations that shut out the Russian made Tu-154 airliners from European and American airports, not safety. The Tu-154s were perfectly good planes otherwise, fast and able to land on gravel runways like typical Russian planes. The Sukhoi superjets have passed Stage III and a few of them are making commercial flights to European destinations. Seating capacity is at most less than 100 passengers, though, which takes them out of the jumbo jet long haul markets.
So it would seem ,only fixing the noise problem would have been far better than replacing an entire air fleet.
Edward over at SyrPer adds:
” In the olden days, every country used to print their own passports. They all looked different. Then US required all countries to make their passports using American/Israeli equipment, if they want their citizens to be allowed into US/Europe.
Now passports of every country in the world look identical except for the wordings and color. These passport equipments have backdoors and code to transmit information on all passports printed on it, to a website in Israel. They have to be regularly serviced by manufacturer. All the passport info may be retained inside for retrieval by service personnel. “
About the three things you mentioned.1st,I wonder if they are true.Have they been double checked on.And 2nd.Are Russia and China not aware of those problems and not fixing them.And if not,why not?
hhmm
any connection?
“EXCLUSIVE: Germany is ‘overwhelmed’ with false asylum seekers’ Syrian passports as forgery experts admit they can’t spot fakes
Migrants are using documents stolen from Syrian refugees, identity cards manufactured to order or simply papers borrowed from friends and relatives to support their asylum application, Mr Aehnlich, of the Lower Saxony Criminal Forensic Institute has revealed.
This means applications for refugee status have been allowed to proceed because the authorities cannot prove they are fake.
He told MailOnline: ‘Some of the passports contain the false personal information in fake documents, some passports contain genuine personal information in fake documents and some passports contain genuine personal information in genuine documents. But we cannot prove which ones are genuine and which are false.’
Once in Europe they can set up sleeper cells or live freely under a new identity without facing the consequences of their brutal past actions.
As the forger chillingly put it: ‘ISIS fighters are among the people going to Europe in this way. They are going to wait for the right time to become a fighter for ISIS again.’
Following an analysis of the fake Syrian passport police forgery expert Joerg Aehnlich confirmed: ‘This is genuine, this is a real Syrian passport.’
The passport book MailOnline acquired is authentic, made from a batch seized from one of the many Syrian government offices captured by advancing opposition forces.
Mr Aehnlich is one of just a handful of forgery experts in Germany that are called upon to provide expert opinions on documents in contested asylum application cases.
But he, and others like him, have been inundated with work since the migration crisis exploded in Europe this year.Forgers buy ’empty’ passports without pictures or information from government officials, or from fighters who seize them from government offices.
Syrian passports do not have modern security features such as biometric chips, making them easier to forge.
Fake passports have been sold for as little as $700 in Syrian opposition held town of Azaz in September
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3305361/Germany-overwhelmed-false-asylum-seekers-Syrian-passports-forgery-experts-admit-t-spot-fakes.html#ixzz3qi6xcehh
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
“that direct energy weaponry needs an electric field”
wow.. the things one learns on a farm..
Laser weapons have been demonstrated years ago, tested recently and are scheduled to be added officially to the american army. And if i am not mistaken, laser air and tank defence is already part of Israels army, or has been prototyped.
A stealth jet with a one-shot laser could quite realistically cut the tail of an airliner, maybe even from decent distance. No science fiction involved.
m.
No: when the tail is seen, it will be so obvious something cut it, i.e. a State.
I don’t know what the current state of development is — undoubtedly secret — but a possibility is a kinetic energy weapon: a piece of metal (or something) shot at extreme high speed, maybe from a rail gun. A thing like that cold take down a commercial plane without much of a heat trail. Like being hit with a slow moving meteor, probably. It could also cause an explosive impact. Aiming would be computer controlled, of course.
Hard to tell what new stuff is being worked on or at a stage where it could be tried.
The only way to find out about these things is do a good investigation from the physical evidence — and see if there could be anything close enough to fire on the plane.
Kolgalymavia: I Agree with you Saker, although my military Guru says that the tail could have disintegrated in a way that could have caused the fuel to explode so he is with- holding judgement on the cause of the accident ( evidently a Japanese airliner with a similar history disintegrated completely mid air several years ago when the tail dropped off–no explosion though in that case). But he did find it interesting from a psych media war perspective that US satellite photos were so readily available so quickly unlike for MH17. And that the UK has stranded many of its citizens in Egypt in an over dramatic show of concern. He feels that this is an attempt , feeble and uncomprehending of the nature of the Russian people, to demoralize the citizenry of Russia. Remember Ashton Carter did talk about “body bags” due to Russian intervention in Syria?
He says they do not understand the Russian’s acceptance that war entails casualties and that the intervention in Syria is war, not a play date. And they will know where to put the blame for the body bags if it comes to that.
As for my non political friends–one of them said, bomb? Oh, was it the CIA? This is a result of too many Hollywood movies, but then, sadly, people in high places seem to act like they are following one.
There is another option. Dangerous cargo exploding in the cargo compartment. Like the oxygen cannisters that brought down a valuejet flight in Florida years ago.
Jim Stone points out that there was an Israeli air force exercise nearby around then. There’s no hotlink to the article, but here’s a map from it: http://82.221.129.208/shootdown.jpg
Also http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-hosts-its-largest-ever-international-air-force-exercise/
Exercise definitely running Oct 26-27, but was it still going on the 31st?
So, the missile option has to include air to air missiles, which eliminates difficulties with manpad range, getting in position, and lack of visible smoke trail. It also eliminates consideration of US claims satellite surveillance saw a heat flash but ruled out a missile, since whose missile would it have been, do you think? Possibly that PR release may have been entirely to insert the ‘not a missile’ claim in the news stream. That ‘ISIS’ apparently managed to video the plane’s high altitude destruction further suggests US-Iraeli planning. Since ISIS is a CIA-Mossad creation as convenient enemy, and would have received instructions on time and place to video from their masters.
There’s also the detail that whatever happened it didn’t make the plane totally un-flyable immediately. The flight tracker data show the plane climbed steeply, then dipped, then flew almost level for a short interval while rapidly losing speed, then finally lost control. See:
http://www.flightradar24.com/blog/crash-of-metrojet-flight-7k9268/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kogalymavia_Flight_9268
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Flightradar24.com_-_flight_7K9268.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/KGL_9268_FlightData.pdf
Point being that air to air missiles are generally fairly small, as they are designed to disable fighter planes. The initial damage may have been localized enough for the plane to be somewhat controllable – until fire or progressive structural damage broke it apart. As for why no mayday, if it was an air to air missile then presumably those responsible could have imposed radio jamming as well. Or maybe the radio antennas/cables were damaged? Or just the flight crew too busy trying to fly a rapidly failing plane.
I think we can ignore all public statements about contents of the flight voice recorder. Russia won’t be signaling what it knows, until after it acts.
Or to be ethical…a half second notice.
RR
Structural damage on airbuses: on veteranstoday I found a link to a discussion of the danger of the airbuses’ backside being made entirely of plastic, especially when the connection between metal and plastic is, at the request of Airbus, to be only superficially controlled. Not so many airbuses broke up in the air until now as one might fear after reading this article:
http://novororssiyaupdates.blogspot.com/2015/11/could-accident-of-flight-7k9268-have.html
Crash site is 45-50km from Israeli border. Be interesting to know what they saw on their military radars.
If you check the MSM only the UK/US/CAN/AUSSIE/NZ are fast to say this is ‘probably’ a bomb.
Why are they so fast?Why are the other more prudent on this?
If they were innocent and not involved(via proxies probably)they would not act so fast and wait at least a bit.Not a single word from Israel…or Erdogan.
What do they(us-uk) think wrong again?That there will be a maidan in Moscow to ask Putin to stop the ops in Syria?
Is it is their view, it seems that they still have not learned anything about Russia and Russians.
Even after almost two years of ukraine action…
Very bas intel sources.
Here is what they do in the Western MSM in Canada which i rarely read. They post a Reuter’s or AP article and never leave a comments section…Just one way programming. Can’t tear the article apart. RR
That nation state which had all history of evil dping in middle east and against russia is england.
Needs to be sorted out by the world community.
5 evil eyes need to be blinded .
I don’t know about the others, but UKGOV have plenty of political problems at the moment – people are saying that it’s like the last days of Thatcher.
UKGOV’s seizing on this story is entirely predictable and standard news management here.
It’s possible that UKGOV could be involved in this one – they’re not a force for peace in the world – but the avalanch of Russia/Syria “news” suggests that these are just good days to release bad news.
This is very bad for the Egyptian economy. Isis is destroying tourist attractions in other parts of the ancient Near East, but they don’t dare demolish the Pyramids and Sphinx or Luxor or Karnak. They (or whoever) attack the tourists instead. Somebody wants to totally ruin the economies of these Middle East countries that rely so heavily on tourism. Talk about spreading chaos.
Good point.
Why do they destroy these architectural heritage sites?
A people’s—and the world’s—sources of inspiration.
Liike destroying or poisoning a water source.
Is it supposed to be for some weird religious reason, as seemed to be the case with the Taliban’s destruction of the enormous (I think) Buddhist monumental statues?
Or is it just viciousness?
Good point is that the tourist economy and intellectual and scholarly community, too, who study these treasures (and they do intersect) is being attacked. .
Katherine
Is it possible that in a world getting more violent; America in particular, that the terrorists must do ever louder publicity stunts? Would this be implicit that they’re part a scheme to get more funding for the MIC?
I’m checking the Sharm airport site and on departures and arrivals we may still view flights to and from Russia…(for friday)
http://sharm-el-sheikh-airport.com/flight-status.htm
How is that possible?
How can they be sure(RF,passengers,egyptian authorithies etc)that there will be no more attacks on these flights as well?Or why not on other flights(just to make some kind of diversion).
Normaly Daesh is ‘supposed’.. to be ‘officaly’ against the ‘West’ also?
It is true that the bombing from the so called’ western coalition’ are so ‘light’….no real danger.
Saker,
A bomb did cause the explosion aboard the aircraft. That we can be sure of but while ISIS is happy to take credit for it, NO! they did not do it. The sophistication required to perpertrate an act of this kind is not to be found in ISIS.
It is much more likely that Western/Israeli Intelligence did this and clandestinely furnished ISIS with the requisite material evidence so that they can say they can take claim.
You and I know full well that ISIS are just useful pawns. Something and Someone way far sinister is behind this crime. ISIS is being played for pasties on this one.
Putin must weigh this one very carefully because the findingds will have Global Implications….
Selah..
I am having similar thoughts.
Good point.
Why do they destroy these architectural heritage sites?
A people’s—and the world’s—sources of inspiration.
Liike destroying or poisoning a water source.
Is it supposed to be for some weird religious reason, as seemed to be the case with the Taliban’s destruction of the enormous (I think) Buddhist monumental statues?
Or is it just viciousness?
Good point is that the tourist economy and intellectual and scholarly community, too, who study these treasures (and they do intersect) is being attacked. .
Katherine
In Islam and Judaism any depiction of God or other religious personage’s is thought of as Idolatry.The religious fanatics consider it a sin to have the old statues in existence.Most people in the World see those monuments as historic reminders of the ancient civilizations of the past.But not the fanatics, they want to “honor” God (Allah) by destroying them.The Spanish did that in the “Conquest of the America’s” with native American religious art.We saw the Taliban do the same in Afghanistan.And now the jihadis are doing that in the World’s “Cradle of Civilization”.And they are licking their lips hoping to do the same in Egypt to the ancient glories still left intact from the Age’s of the Pharaohs.If they and their Western backers get their way,only things like the “Golden Arches” of a McDonald’s will be considered as “historic reminders of our past”.
Which brings us to Iconoclasm – including the one in Christianity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm .
And if that movement one finds utterly silly, then so is religion itself. To be fair, these are only some of a myriad of ways for people to waste their valuable time, instead of trying to improve their living conditions.
And that land carrier in the ME has all the requisite skills. And given the fact that they have been grounded over Syria. This is right up there alley. I knew this was coming after I heard Nutenyahu at the UN. He had already been given stand down orders on Syria.
RR
Egypt will get more involved with Russia, not less. Security will be refined and strengthened. Tourism will get greater protection, particularly at this beachfront destination. Russian tourists will be favored by Egyptians because of the losses. Deeper friendships will result.
And Russia will get basing rights to help clear out the Sinai, and other parts of Egypt and then Libya.
This is a long war to eradicate ISIS and AQ and the Muslim Brotherhood terror factions.
Who has tried to hurt Egypt in the last 48 hours? The Western nations have reacted to cripple tourism.
20,000 Brits there, and they didn’t do squat about ISIS for over a year. Now, it’s Egypt’s problem.
And who did the West want to continue to run Egypt? The Muslim Brotherhood loons.
Egyptians know the score. They will be tight with Russia for decades to come.
Weapons, nuclear power, gas field development, tourism and trade. That’s the long future worth the long war.
Only one problem…war is the only solution for capitalist class in crisis…revolution it’s only solution.
Long term prospects do not look good.
Cheers,
RR
The West has had its day, their narratives are being shattered one by one, faster and faster.
The long term prospects look very good IMHO.
Short and medium term will be … interesting.
I would like to know what you base that on…I argue that these increasing hostilities follow a historical pattern under the specific laws of motion of the laws of capitalist development…depression war depression war depression war….we are again at depression war. At least in 3 quarters’ of the globe…do you think this is going to magically stop in Fort Russia or China and that they won’t be attacked….Good Luck with your analysis. I think we have to stop them. Or Else and soon.
RR
The main target of this attack is Egypt not Russia, it’s convenient that the aircraft was Russian so two birds with one stone, but Egypt is the one that will suffer the consequences. This incident will further strengthen Egypt’s alliance with Russia.
I’ve spent an AF career in mil-aircraft R&D…little public understanding is known about airframe fatigue failure. It is deadly without rigorous lifetime inspections and repairs. A hard landing or tail drag take-off can easily start the process of later fatigue failure. Then at 30k ft a run-in with frequent “CAT” aka clear air turbulance and it becomes an all familar (non public) catistrophic disaster. No winners here: Egypt looks bad for security reasons (easily bribed) ; Russia looks bad for aircraft maintence & safety (not unusual). The findings will I’m afraid be highly politicised…watch carefully how the findings ( a year later) are worded. In the real and present world it will public opinion which will affect the geopolitics. Kj
Be mindful that the aircraft was owned by an Irish company, the Russian operators having leased it. The owners would have certainly made sure that “their property” was correctly looked after, so suggestions that “poor maintenance on behalf of the Russian operators” is the cause do not hold, especially since the aircraft was assessed by Airbus technicians as being of acceptable airworthiness prior to the lease being signed (as would be expected – the Russians would not be prepared to lease rubbish).
You will know that airframe surveys are done regularly, but periodically, and the most recent complete survey for this aircraft was not that long ago (i.e. well within the accepted 5-year interval). In view of repair history, areas where there could be dormant structural issues (i.e. post-repair issues) are subject to particularly stringent assessment (including dye penetration testing).
Not a “particularly old” or hard-worked aircraft either; from what I can gather, apart from the tail strike incident, there have been no other “major” incidents involving (or likely to affect) structural integrity during its operational life.
The most recent alternative news article I read theorises that Israeli and Jordanian spy agencies built the sophisticated bomb, smuggled an ISIS “special film crew” into Egyptian Sinai to plant the bomb, place them in the right spot to film, and then extracted them through the Red Sea back into Jordan.
Saker stated he is not sure what more Russia can do to punish ISIS, but I have also read that Putin is about to order Russian strategic bombers to drop thermobaric bombs on the ISIS capital of Raqqa. Would this actually provide any strategic value, or is it better to patiently and systematically allow the Syrian army/Iraq/Hezbollah/IRGC alliance to “re-conquer” ISIS?
This event if terrorist will steel national resolve even further. And it appears at this point all the West has are media wars and terrorist attacks….it has been 5 weeks….and there is a sea change afoot at least in Canada…a local radio show was saying how these early pronouncements appear to be politicized while stating how professional Russia and Egypt are carrying out the investigations. Adding how disrespectful it was of the relatives of the loved ones. I was astonished. This from the Niagara Region. The cracks in the cabal grow larger by the day.
Yours,
RR
In the mean time compare and contrast the way Russia and Egypt are handling this entire event compared to the crash in Ukraine. In Egypt the entire process will be legitimate. In Ukraine the entire process is illegitimate. None of the evidence in the Ukraine event would be admissible in a functioning court of law.
Yours,
RR
If this was a bomb placed on the plane in Egypt it would not be the first time this has happened. Arrow Air Flight 1285, a charter flight where most of the passengers, were members of the 101st Airborne Division, who were assigned as a peace-keeping force in the Sinai Peninsula, enforcing the Camp David accords of 1978. However, there may have had Special Forces on board coming back from an aborted hostage rescue attempt in Lebanon. Unlike Pan Am Flight 103, this story was buried with all the evidence.
I believe I saw an episode on Bill Kurtis Investigative reports about this, but now I cannot find any major sight that tells the story. The only story I can find on the web these days that questions http://www.rense.com/general69/gander.htm
Egypt can be a dangerous place.
Saker you made some predictions about how the war would be fought in the Ukraine….so much % military so much % information….how do the numbers look today? You do see these as same war don’t you? And what are your percentages today on how much info and how much military and where are we heading?
Yours,
RR
I feel so sad for the loss of life and the relatives and friends of those innocent people, I’m so sorry….
Re. the disaster…as said here a bomb would be easy, structural failure possible. But, for me, I wouldn’t have been going anywhere near the Middle East at the very least least since 2003 & I’m not Russian.
For the Russian Federation, seems to me there are only Iran, Syria & Hezbollah on side everyone else including Egypt is opposition. Commendable and necessary as it is to seek a diplomatic solution, the other side will have to suffer severe losses to submit….their minds are closed….and I can’t stand seeing all this from far away.
…So much death and destruction….for ideology in the sand….
The crash occurred at 04.13 UTC
The ISIS video? When was this video first uploaded?
How long would it take to make a fake video after news that plane had crashed.
Old video? ISIS found it in a matter of hours yet nobody else has found previous footage?
If the video is genuine, then judging by the angles, with the plane approx 10k altitude, the cameraman would be aprrox 10k behind and off to the left of the aircraft.
Checking this on google puts the approx area of the cameraman in some very rough country with several hours driving across numerous watercourses to the nearest collection of humpies that may have an internet connection.
JOKE OF THE DAY
” Egypt has promoted the airport chief at Sharm al-Sheikh days after a Russian plane that took off from the Red Sea resort crashed in a disaster that killed all aboard and was claimed by Islamist militants.”
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world/egypt-promotes-sharm-airport-chief-after-russian-plane-crash/story-dzitZjeZ8AMt1HWbHDEUGN.html
To trust al-Sisi (ISIS backwards) a long-term US asset, and a man described by an effusive Israeli Minister as a ‘hero to the Jews’, would, I believe, be a grave error.
The thing that has me doubting the bomb hypothesis is the fact that nobody has come out to claim that they have done it. The point of conducting terror attacks is to try and sow terror among the populace you oppose. Having people doubt whether or not this was a terror attack is a basic failure at completing the main objective of a terror attack. To cause terror.
Which leads me to my second point. if this truly was a bomb. Who did it? Daesh, Al Qaeda and other Wahabi groups stands a lot to gain in propaganda, funding and new recruits by coming out and claiming responsibility, yet they have not. The only people who would want to hide their responsibility when it comes to a terror attack, are those that stand to lose from it. That would mean national governments or the US supposed ‘allies’ in Syria.
These things, along with the fact that the US yet again makes claims that their intelligence has proof. But is yet again unwilling to share it to prove that their proof is real. They had more ‘proof’ to show that Iraq had WMDs than they have here or in Ukraine. And as we all found out, Iraqi WMDs were all a lie.
Of course the fact that the US has nothing to show may also mean that they do have proof and don’t wish to reveal how their intelligence gathering operates. Since it is easier to share forged files than real ones. But again, we should never ever base our decisions on someone’s word. Let alone someone that has been known to lie before.
What do you think Saker?
The thing that has me doubting the bomb hypothesis is the fact that nobody has come out to claim that they have done it. ???
They have come out and claimed “credit” for it.Isis claimed it right after the crash was reported.And there is a video of 5 ISIS supporters (1 looked Slavic) saying more attacks were coming.
Jesus Christ they haven’t shown or talked about any of that shit on the news here. What the fuck are they doing on Dutch TV?
Serving the interests of the empire I would say.The empire provides plenty of bribe money to the MSM in different countries.And they expect those countries media to obey.BTW ,the Netherlands was one of the countries that helped out the US the most in plotting the maidan in Ukraine.So don’t be surprised that Dutch media serves them too.
Lucius: As long as the Saker has not yet responded to your question I feel like suggesting to you that you may have become a victim of your own wording: “The point of … terror attacks is to … sow terror among the populace you oppose… the main objective (is) … to cause terror”. Yes, this is a tautology. But what about “reminder attacks” or “discourage attacks”? It is also not a universal law that such attacks are directed against the populace – in most classical cases the attacks were meant to make governments act (the palestinian terror in the 60s). IF the populace is the target, then terror is best spread by spreading terror and not those words that Elisabeth Hunover hates to the degree of forbidding them to their tribe: “No complaints, no explanations!” Every stupid american horror film shows that horror is created when unknown forces do terrible things for unknown reasons: “The killer tomatoes attacked us!” we are to understand only at the end.
Yes, this is something to remember: when the terrorists do not claim anything, they were a government, as in the case of MH17. But you can shut up completely and still post messages. It is sad to see how many brains are speculating about the hardware that destroyed the hardware of this A321, and how little is done to understand the software of these acts: what they are meant to achieve. The Metro Bombings which Russia under Putin is famous for (including this plane crash of a *Metro*jet) are to convince Putin and his voters that ‘the security specialist Putin is incompetent, he does not even understand his own profession’. Other details may be meant to tell other governments but *not* the populace who is so powerful that he can stage such events and never be punished for them – this is how I explain why the Smolensk crash and the MH17 crash were performed at jubilee dates of Hitler’s very probable daughter, “Merkel”, and were performed at the exact moment which would point to that personal date. With that either the nazi regime of “Merkel” or her handlers in angloamerica or both tell the world, first, that this stupid thing out of the FDJ and Stasi “is a world power one has to reckon with” (i.e. “shut up and comply!”, which the head of PO government of Poland, Tusk, understood very well and was nicely rewarded for, in public, by “Merkel” personally), and second, that hitlerism is not “reappearing” but is here for a long time already, and only thinks, it can now act openly again (which the german gov tells the other govs so that they all can inform their populace later), and third, that what hitlerism wants of everybody else (but governments in the first place) is to do again what hitlerism always does: start a world war against Russia, with all the lovely democracies of Europe taking part. Since Hitler started his war with the completely sufficient pretext of a faked terror murder attack (on Radio Gliwice), it had to suffice to start this next world war (with everybody joining in) by nearly the same kind of person (daddy’s daughter in daddy’s office) in the same fashion: a staged faked mass murder in the world war rhythm of “every 25 years”, thus after 1939, 1964, 1989 in 2014. Most of the MH17 “victims” were stinking corpses *because of the message*: we want war, and a lie must be again enough for you, populace. Since something misfired (the internet and nasty blogs may have used their secret power), we (the governments of the world and their unimportant populaces) are now to wait, in terror, stoicism or agony, for “Merkel”s next jubilee on 2015-11-22 (10 years bundesführer) for a final jump start of WW3(4 for the Russians). The governments have been informed by these open exercises, but those who are not accustomed to decipher coded meaning will be surprised.
You have pointed out correctly that “such acts” (I generalize your “terror attacks”) are a transmission of meaning, and that is: the use of a language. Understanding “such acts” would mean to understand more than One Word (“terror”), there are many others. That an eminent linguist like Chomsky cares about “such things” is not only good but also logical – not understandable is why Chomsky himself seems not to understand this and is on our side, the side of the good ones, only “as a citizen”, and not as a linguist who might decipher all of this to all of us. Perhaps he did already, and I am only unaware of it.
bp
I am sorry but if the airplane was involved earlier in a tailstrike accident, then this would be the main suspect of the crash. A tailstrike is enough to cause important (or even massive) structural damage on the plane.
Also, there are TWO instances of airplanes involved in tailstrikes that were deficiently repaired and, years later, crashed due to structural failure. Those were:
Japan Airlines Flight 123
China Airlines Flight 611
Both were Boeing airplanes. I would look into the kind of repairs that were done on the airplane first, before jumping to conclusions. In both crashes, the repairs of the tailstrike incidents were not done according to the Boeing Structural Repair Manual (SRM): the repair doubler plate (that was supposed to reinforce the affected area) either was improperly fixed or did not cover the whole area. And note that the Japanese plane was incorrectly repaired by Boeing technicians.
Also, in case of a serious tailstrike accident, structural damage to the plane may be hard to assess; in these cases, it is possible that the procedure indicated by the Boeing SRM could be insufficient.
Now, it would be bad publicity for Boeing if the cause of the accident turns out to be a defective repair (if done on Boeing’s watch). No pun intended, here; airplanes are very complex machines, and unpredicted things (unpredicted by engineering) may happen. Anyway, this will not be terribly hard to investigate; we will soon know the truth.
When first I hear about this tragedy my first reaction was a terrorist act and still (until proved otherwise) I believe that. Egypt has a poor tract protecting tourists, ie a few months ago a group of Mexican tourist was killed by Egyptian security personal giving very poor explanations of how this could happened. Then we know that there are fundamentalists, IS sympathasiers/active amongt egyptians no question. Then going more conspiratory (which I do not believe) there are connections between Egyptian government and Saudi (Egypt is recipient of Saudi help) but I do not think they (officials) would dare to do so against a civilian plane.
keep responses factual
blip in flightradar24 data.
a child’s body was found 25k back along the flight path
this seems to be wrong
a childs body
blip
found
back along
the flight path
the body of a child
flight path for the soul
blip
this seems wrong
the tail debris field is 500-1000 meters
this seems wrong
latest news
the fields of heaven
are strewn with flowers
measuring meters
soul of the child
child of the soul
blip
body of a child
blip
you were found on the flight path
blip
dear
soul of a child
child of a soul
you are eternal
After the fall of Mubarak, the Egyptian security services was acquired by Saudis and Israelis…
totally agree with above comment by Noel…Israeli security world wide.
Air to air missile and the forensics will pinpoint it by late next week
Seems to me the US/UK are not just rushing to capitalise in their usual clumsy fashion, but also maybe covering up something or anticipating the need to do so.
Thi is a nice little piece about the nonsense of the western response so far…
http://off-guardian.org/2015/11/06/russian-plane-crash-shows-usuk-losing-their-grip-along-with-their-terrorist-narrative/
“Horrible as this may sound, I don’t think that this is very significant, at least not on a political level.”
Evaluation is a function of purpose.
If the purpose is transcendence then the salient questions remain:
Does a drowning man suit your purpose?
If not, how to drown a drowning man with the minimum of blowback?
In any lateral system “blowback” can be deflected/minimised – it can never be wholly avoided.
Some may be of the view that increasing the noise to signal ratio precludes minimisation, however given the system is lateral and hence not dependent on sole or primary agency, any action by opponents can be used to deflect/minimise “blowback”.
Encouraging opponents’ resort to bridging doubt by belief, and reliance on belief also affords opportunities for lateral challenge.
A further catalyst in this lateral process is the opponents’ marked tendency to “rush to judgement”.
There are many uses of the aspects outlined above.
“Well, I tried to avoid writing about this topic until more hard facts became available. But since this is apparently turning into a political fight between, on one side, Russia and Egypt and, on the other, the US and UK, I think that I can at least offer a few general thoughts.”
Appearances can be deceptive; deception can also be used to make appearances appear so.
A philosophical breakdown of an analyses is interesting, and definitely refreshing, but nonetheless, theoretical and dense with hypothetical considerations.. don’t get me wrong, it really is very nice, but I cannot understand it. Could you make it more descriptive, or more explanatory, in some simple language.. or… perhaps that would be risky, at this stage,.. hmm…
“Could you make it more descriptive”
An example:
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169115
“hypothetical considerations”
No, practical considerations informing strategy formulation, implementation and evaluation.
But that is impossible the material and ideal and are not dualistic entities but aspects of a single whole…idea’s do not fall from the sky…even wrong-headed one’s, they are the result of real world processes. The mind is the result of matter in motion…brain matter…
Just Imagine!
Cheers,
RR
“But that is impossible the material and ideal and are not dualistic entities but aspects of a single whole”
A binary was not posited in either
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169110
or
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169287
You are projecting a hologram of your prejudgements. The opponents also resort to this method to bridge doubt.
In any lateral system the “ideal” can never exist, nor can the optimum.
The lateral strategies are transcending the opponents.
It is not impossible as corroborated by “events”.
RR, I recognize this commenter,very superior,condecending and glib.
I call he/she ‘the positer’….turns up occasionally,never really contributes anything other than putdowns.
Perhaps the meds ran out ?
This poster reminds of an updated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA — an early chatterbot ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatterbot ): an escapee from some undergraduate AI lab.
The reading of disinterested observation is, in the most fundamental sense, the hermeneutic of the implied reader.
(http://writing-program.uchicago.edu/toys/randomsentence/index.htm)
“the hermeneutic of the implied reader.
(http://writing-program.uchicago.edu/toys/randomsentence/index.htm)”
Perhaps your reliance upon devotional texts and/or authorities is a marker of your lack of agency and/or practical experience?
“The reading of disinterested observation is….”
Perhaps your lack of agency forms part of the reason you project your expectations onto another whom you assume has little resolve and limited agency?
If so you are projecting a hologram of your expectations which could constitute engaging in hermeneutics.
“randomsentence”
As to the notion “random”, like infinity it is a construct to bridge doubt engendered by that which is not presently understood. Sometimes this is attenuated for example in Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
Some hold that practices such as random number generation are possible, but since number is a linear system randomness is not possible since number remains within a linear paradigm.
The same logic is extended to random sentence generation since even neologisms follow a linear logical system.
It is also interesting that you cite one publication of the University of Chicago but not another to test hypotheses, say Thomas Kuhn’s Structure of Scientific Revolutions.
Perhaps comparing the rigour exhibited in both publications would illustrate interesting developments in the US “academy” including the University of Chicago over time.
Perhaps a close reading of Mr. Bulgakov’s Heart of a Dog will illustrate how dogma is dangerous .
On the contrary:
——-
The Failure of Discourse: The subdialectic paradigm of expression,
conceptualist theory and socialism
Rudolf Buxton
Department of Peace Studies, University of California, Berkeley
F. Paul Hanfkopf
Department of Politics, Miskatonic University, Arkham, Mass.
1. Subdialectic capitalist theory and cultural discourse
“Society is fundamentally meaningless,” says Baudrillard; however, according
to la Tournier[1] , it is not so much society that is
fundamentally meaningless, but rather the defining characteristic, and
therefore the stasis, of society. However, McElwaine[2]
states that we have to choose between conceptualist theory and neosemioticist
nihilism.
[…]
http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/
A use of ideology – another example.
http://radio4all.net/responder.php/download/79003/87255/99436/?url=http://www.radio4all.net/files/scottprice666@hotmail.com/4319-1-GRNH_jan23_2015_episode_90_session_mixdown.mp3
“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”
― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
“which is to be master”
Mr Dodgson lived in Mr. Dodgson’s time and hence his framing using “master”.
A comment that wasn’t published on Russian diplomacy RT thread was:
Moderating Clausewitz and transcending the binary sometimes known as zero sums.
“The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
Communication is at least a joint activity and hence sole agency does not exist, so you cannot make words mean different things in an activity requiring a broadcaster and a receiver.
The opponents’ do attempt this since their framing is often subject/object, and this is another marker of their habitation of the Wonderland that is exceptionalism.
“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
Mr Dodgson lived in Mr. Dodgson’s time and hence his framing using “I” and the linear system of “more or less”.
It may prove more illuminating to read Mr. Dodgson’s work in mathematics to contextualise and aid understanding of Alice through the looking glass.
“In that sense, Daesh has already greatly benefited from this tragedy.”
Really? How so?
/dreams-of-a-sleeping-alligator-dream-four-waking-up/comment-page-1/#comment-168351
I hope that at least two positive things arising from this tragedy: an even closer relationship between Russia and Egypt, and even greater control and surveillance of the Russians on internal and external security.
I also hope that instead of a wave of fear, the Russians experience a further wave of patriotism and inner strength.
A hug to everyone from São Paulo – Brazil.
P.s.: Saker, this analysis was expected a long time, was disappointed with your silence on this tragedy … Great read the analysis at last!
Dear The Saker,
You say: “I don’t think that the Russian officials will lie about the cause of this crash”.
As much as I am a 100 % supporter of Putin the Great ( that’s what I call him) AND Russians, the Russian officials might indeed lie.
Why? because the Russian citizens might begin expressing vocally, that the lives of their own countrymen are not worth the strikes in Syria. This dissent of the regular Russian citizens is what the Israelis, Saudi Arabia and Western countries desire fervently—-for the Russian people to go against the actions of their Russian government. It’s a way to hurt Putin and Russia by putting the idea in the heads of the Russian citizens not to go ahead with the strikes actions against ISIS that are going so well for Putin and Russia and for the citizens of the world as well.
Putin is the greatest strategist and statesman so far of the 21st century, and anything he does and all he represents the Zionists want to smash it.
Carmel by the Sea
because the Russian citizens might begin expressing vocally, that the lives of their own countrymen are not worth the strikes in Syria.
No. The Russian people fully understand that Daesh is a threat to Russia no less than a threat to Syria. Thus, this also understand that it is better (for Russia) to fight Daesh in Syria rather than in the Russian Caucasus or Central Asia. This is the key thing: Russians accept the reality that they are in a war and that in a war there are casualities. They do not blame Putin for this attack and they are smart enough to know that Daesh and the AngloZionists are already at war with Russia. Of course, they are horrified by this massacre (assuming that is what we are dealing with), but they also accept that this is the world we are living in.
And while I 100% agree that Putin COULD lie in order to preserve Russian national interests, I simply don’t think that in this case he has any reason to lie. None at all. IF this plane was really bombed, then Putin can say that and all he will get from the Russian people in response is even a stronger mandate to go and kill as many Daesh freaks as possible.
“And while I 100% agree that Putin COULD lie in order to preserve Russian national interests”
Beliefs can be debilitating as can reliance on binaries.
Granted some of the opponents have not had such “visions” whether on the road to Damascus or elsewhere.
Here is another question I wonder about.I firmly agree with you that that would strengthen the resolve of people not turn them against Putin.But there should be a large question in Russian eyes if ISIS could have done the bombing “without help”.And if not,”whose help”.And if it was connected to the West,what retaliation to take.In the “correct” past, when a country murdered your citizens you took punitive action at once on them.In today’s World countries too often “grin and bear it”.They should demand justice be done for their murdered citizens.And if they are refused ,turn the FSB loose to deliver that justice.
“They should demand justice be done for their murdered citizens.And if they are refused ,turn the FSB loose to deliver that justice.”
I note that apparently you feel qualified and wish to direct the “strategies” of representatives of the Russian Federation.
You appear also to reflect the opponents’ “strategies” of revenge and schadenfreude.
However your consistency in this regard should also be appreciated.
Thank you.
I see our “peace agreement” can’t last.Like the West you have a problem with keeping to agreements.Sad,but so be it.
This board is a discussion board.And on it we all post comments and share our ideas.If you aren’t happy with that,to bad,so sad.
“This board is a discussion board”
You are largely mistaken.
This is a broadcast medium.
As at 21-30 hrs UTC 6th November 2015 the views were 6971 views and 152 comments.
“.If you aren’t happy with that,to bad,so sad.”
Evaluation of broadcasts is normally on the basis of utility not “happiness”.
Sorry Uncle Bob, I don’t know how a comment like that got through…I guess you have enemies…take it as a compliment
“I guess you have enemies”
My associates and I do not have enemies, we have opponents.
Like you opponents often guess.
How did the Crimean movie turn out?
Why do so many readers who make comments on this blog seem to feel that the RF needs a babysitter and needs to be told what to do all the time? They are big boys (and girls) over there, they will figure it out on their own. Russia has only been around for a thousand years.
That comes under the heading of people sharing their opinions.That’s what people do on posting boards.One might also ask why do some people on the board seem to need to tell other posters on the board what they should do or not do.We are (most of us) adults and can make our own minds up.Besides, do you serious think high government officials in the RF are reading comments here and would be offended if we gave them advise.Over my weekly lunch with Vladimir Vladimirovich , I’ll ask him if he feels offended by my suggestions.
Are you serious?
I hope they are gathering intel and are listening! We know NSA is.
Cheers,
RR
“I hope they are gathering intel and are listening!”
Of course.
The key points are not gathering but evaluating, formulating and implementing strategies.
Ask the CIA and NSA, why “surprises”?
You mean why am I not surprised. “You don’ t need a weather man to know which way the wind blows”
Cheers,
RR
“You mean why am I not surprised”
No some in the CIA, the NSA, the State Department that are included in the opponents.
The opponents’ ideologies and systems depend on the notion of “I”.
To understand it would perhaps be wise to transcend their notion of “I” into “we”.
“Over my weekly lunch with Vladimir Vladimirovich , I’ll ask him if he feels offended by my suggestions.”
Some representatives of the Russian Federation recognise that useful fools are useful and this is partly the reason why Russia is not the Soviet Union.
Some representatives of the Russian Federation also recognise that they have opponents not enemies, and that targeted assassinations that you have recommended in the past give rise to questions such as – Whatever happened to Stepan Bandera?
“Why do so many readers who make comments on this blog seem to feel that the RF needs a babysitter and needs to be told what to do all the time?”
It is generally a marker of immersion in the ideology of exceptionalism – the beacon on the hill, the indispensible nation, the bringers of light into the darkness, subject/object, active/passive, manifest destiny etc.
Subsumed within all of these aspects are contempt for others and denial of agency/adulthood/humanity to others – the state of unequal and different which is the basis of the opponents’ system.
A similar framing was achieved during the British Empire under the notion of “White man’s burden”.
Ideology is more dangerous than weapons of any destruction.
Ideology is a form of blindness facilitating opportunities of lateral challenge of the opponents – a variation on the theme of hoist by their own petard.
The following may prove to be of interest;
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169110
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169115
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169287
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169293
Some appear to believe that a blog is a discussion medium rather than a broadcast medium.
Those who understand that it is a broadcast medium are afforded more opportunities.
The purpose is not to “educate” the opponents since this would reflect the ideological practices outlined above, the purpose is to transcend the opponents.
Bob, I would bet my right leg that Western intelligence was behind this, and the response of the West, dropping hints about bombs, planted ‘just before take-off’, changing the narrative at the drop of the hat,claiming that this will demoralise the cowardly Russians, claiming that, somehow, bombing the noble ‘moderates’ rather than Daash, caused the attack, and making quite plain their lack of interest in dead Russians (some of the loval MSM comment here, drawing on the lies around MH17 has been viciously psychotic)etc, seems quite calculated. Like a challenge to Russia. Do something about it, if you dare. And if you don’t, there’s more to come. In a way I think the atrocity at the MSF hospital in Kunduz is part of the same process. A version of Dayan’s ‘rabid dog’ doctrine, only these Exceptional dogs really are barking mad. Check out WSWS and their report on the Congressional hearings where the planning and preparations for near-term wars of aggression against Russia and China were made sickeningly plain.
You could very well be right.I think if the plane was sabotaged the West had to be involved (or at least have known before hand about it).No real evidence I can point to.But it seems to fit their MO and style fully.
It has been said elsewhere. If there is foul play in this instance, and only once established, there will be an appropriate response in a time and place of RF choosing. I am sure the emotional impact for russians will inform such response, but will not drive or off track it. I would either not be surprised if the response will not hit the headlines at all.
“I would either not be surprised if the response will not hit the headlines at all.”
A straw not a haystack.
Or why Euclid was wrong.
http://fortruss.blogspot.ru/2015/11/boeing-airbus-why-not-ilyushin-part-one.html
Dear The Saker,
Thank you for explaining to me in a concise and transparent manner the minds of the every day citizens of Russia.
Your post has made me sighed relief ! as I was very concerned that the Russians might end up doing just what the Demons in Cahoots have been wanting.
Regards,
Carmel by the Sea
Carmel,
While its good to see The Saker spell it out, I had no worries the Demons in Cahoots would succeed in changing Russian public opinion – if that was the intention.
Never underestimate the Dukes and Duchesses of Defiance. :)
Saker, I wish I could share your conviction. But what if the investigation reveals a sophistication beyond of the ISIS’s capabilities? What if it proves a direct US/UK/etc. involvement? Now wouldn’t it put Putin in a hot seat by being forced to respond? How is more bombing ISIS targets going to avenge the downing of the airliner? I am afraid that Putin will have to lie and the cabal knows it.
The best revenge is chasing ISIS into the toilet. That’s how Putin avenged the Moscow apartment bombings. The Russian military probably has rockets specially made for latrines. There’s nowhere to hide.
“What if it proves a direct US/UK/etc. involvement? Now wouldn’t it put Putin in a hot seat by being forced to respond?”
Chomsky has said something rather clever: that an effective response does not mean it has to be violent.
If there is enough to establish that US/UK or ’empire’ was responsible for the crash, it is sufficient to publish it and make it a matter of record, as in the UN, and let the world-wide political chips fall where they will — on heads of those responsible. Additionally, legal action, and other non-violent responses, are possible.
The only problem with responding to this plane crash by bombing ISIS is that that is the wrong response.
ISIS were not responsible for this atrocity, they are patsies taking credit for the work of others – whether CIA, Mossad, Saudi or Qatari intelligence.
Clear the U.S. & UK releasing stories about ISIS bombing the plane are to force Putin into one of two responses, backing down and looking weak by not confronting ISIS with the full force of Russian military might, or, going beserk and going all out to smash ISIS.
Why else are they so quick to finger ISIS? They are clearly laying some sort of trap for Putin to walk into.
If this was in fact Saudi intelligence, or Qatari even, the correct response is to do what the U.S. did in response to Lockerbie.
And what was that exactly?
Well said.
Any other comments useless.
This point should be included in Sakers analysis or it should not be written yet at all.
This is not a daily tabloid.
I find it suspicious that the Brits and Americans are so positive it was a bomb before all the investigation and testing is done. Do they know something, or is this just part of political gamesmanship? Either way it seems like they really want to provoke the Russian bear into an act of aggression.
The English mercenaries have done it and English want to make Rusdia provoked into war before Russia is fully ready for real war ( that is before 2020) to take on anglos cabal.
@”it and English want to make Russia provoked into war before Russia is fully ready for real war ( that is before 2020)
That may well be.
Lots of provocations of different sorts, different levels, some concrete (bombs on passenger jets; F-whatevers flying near or within Syria) and some rhetorical or just plain mean (Charlie Hebdo jokes). I think PUtin is smart enough not to be lured into an unwise, too rapid reaction. He will watch and wait and choose teh time and territory that suits him and Russia to take revenge and also stake out the battefield. That wil include the diplomatic front, but< I hope, not to "make nice" with people are not nice (maybe pretend to make nice), but to firm up strategic partnerships and develop the infrastructure of defensive alliances. Think The Godfather. Memory is long. I wonder wehther long-term planning could include inserting political or military sleepers of various kinds into the West.
Katherine
Katherine
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter’d visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp’d on these lifeless things,
The hand that mock’d them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
“My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away
P.B Shelley
***Keep responses factual, thank you.
The Empire of London -Zionism is suspect # 1
It’s was clear case of a bomb on board – that’s why Israeli investigating team was first to arrive at the scene.
Now, here why I smell some rotten eggs in this story; 1) Gen. Sisi is a Crypto Jew and very popular within Israeli regime, 2) Israel has offered its “help” to investigate (remove any evidence of Mossad involvement as it did France, Argentina, Spain, Kenya, the US, UK, Turkey, etc. in the past) the accident, 3) US-Israel’s baby ISIS has taken credit for shooting the plane to revenge Russian airstrikes in Syria against anti-Assad rebels, 4) Egyptian Sinai Peninsula which borders Israel, was occupied by Israel for nearly two decades, 5) Egypt has welcomed Russian military involvement in Syria claiming that would root-out Salaafi/Wahabi terrorism, 6) Israeli poodle governments in Bonn and Paris have banned commercial flights over Sinai Peninsula, and 7) Rita Katz, the Jewish ‘video expert’ has already released a video in support of ISIS claim.
Russian Transport Ministry officials have rejected ISIS claim saying that “plane at 31K feet is outside MANPAD range”.
http://rehmat1.com/2015/11/01/did-israel-just-shot-down-a-russian-passenger-plane/
Spot on. I’d only add that
1) the degree of political controversy bwn West & Russia has been exaggerated by sloppy news reporting that describes careful and *not* mutually extensive statements by officials on both sides as “controversy”.
2) I agree on net effect so far, but that might change if there are more attacks.
Russian people are not going to turn against Putin over this. They are not fickle like Americans or Europeans.
My first thought when hearing about the crash was that this was Israel’s revenge for Russia getting involved in Syria.
Could the sharp rise just before the loss of the signal be due to the pilots trying to avoid something showing on their radar?
Of course not knowing what really happened I propose the following scenarios >
1. US supplying Syria “moderates” with antiaircraft missiles for the purpose of them getting in the hands of Daesh for them to perpetrate this disaster.
2. Saker’s B-scenario made possible by burying evidence in the sand of which I suppose there is plenty in the Sinai.
3. A missile fired from across the border
A few thoughts crossing my mind …
The story pushed by the UK / US seems like a red herring.
The US sending F15 fighters to Turkey and with Russia rushing antiaircraft missiles to Syria gives me the feeling that the “official” start to the new great war is not far.
A strong autocratic ruler is much preferable to the fake democracy we live under.
Best wishes,
138 women, 69 men and 17 children are dead if not due to mechanical failure then by the hand of remorseless villains. The provocateurs are not only the assassins but the black hearts that recruited them, planned this monstrous deed and paid them 30 pieces if silver.
The Russian authorities will put this case together, piece by piece and reveal the entire chain of evidence and bring it forth into the light of justice. The punishment will be severe for those criminals who gave birth to this evil. The shashka may strike a military base on land or at sea or the disappearance of an important politician, bureaucrat, banker or oligarch may occur.
What Putin won’t do is punish the innocent. No passenger aircraft or tourist bus or train or ferry will feel the sword. He won’t order that because Vladimir Putin is not only a great leader and Statesman but his very foundation is a morality that western powers are devoid of: a soul.
@LIz
“I wonder what the Russian government will do if it turns out it was ISIS, what will be their retaliation, they are already bombing ISIS. Perps they will send more troops or send more special forces and attempt to capture or kill ISIS higher-ups.”
It’s quite possible that the purpose of the downing of the airliner (if that what it was indeed) was to draw Russia into sending boots on the ground in Syria. That was my first thought anyway.
ISIS is a terrorist franchise created by the US and its allies. It is made up of little armies of mercenaries who are supplied with propaganda props along with weapons, i.e. flags and guns. It is an intelligence community operation.
“… supplied with propaganda props along with weapons, i.e. flags and guns’
and narcotic drugs.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/26/435017/Lebanon-Saudi-prince-narcotics
I have just read this newly posted blog on FortRuss:
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/11/did-russian-regulator-attempt-to-ban.html
It offers a potential explanation I had not thought of – also explaining (possibly) why this aircraft is on the banned list now.
Since my knowledge of such things is zero, I wonder if anyone with actual knowledge of aircraft and remote control (Saker?) could comment. I am interested in informed comment, as opposed to subjective opinion, as it’s my own lack of knowledge I’m trying to fill.
Also, if this could have been as Dimitry states, is it traceable? Could they discover who sent the disable message?
The thought that this may have come direct from USA makes my blood turn to ice.
Isabella,
He is right – probably. Even if he can’t prove anything. Russia does have to think about importing such high risk vehicles from hostile entities.
I am not a technician/engineer. But does anyone here know if interference with the GPS system could be a factor in depriving the pilot of control over the plane?
A mobile phone network – Lightsquared – was denied an operational licence when it emerged it could interfere with civil aviation. Soros Fund Investment was a big investor in Harbinger (omen?) the company that sought the licence. Soros also funded lobbies for the licence.
It has subsequently been entangled in law suits.
But could this ‘flaw’ actually be used to sinister effect ?
Anything is possible, however everything important has redundant backups. In addition to any possible modern GPS navigation (this A-321 is 18 years old I think) there will be VOR, NDB and Inertial navigation. VOR uses fixed ground stations that put out radials that can either be flown along directly or transposed to phantom stations to suit the flightpath. NDB can be as simple as a radio station and inertial navigation needs nothng external to the plane. It doesn’t exactly tell where you are but tells you where you are with reference to where you were -where you started from that is.
Failing all those there is a compass and two sets of eyes and a radio. At night the light pollution from cities is visible in clear weather from hundreds of miles away.
I have no direct knowledge of the A-321 but I think the above is generally correct -anyone, please correct if there are any mistakes or ommisions.
I have heard of these Honeywell remote takeover systems on Boeings but I doubt they’d be on an old Airbus.
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/08/07/flight-control-boeings-uninterruptible-autopilot-system-drones-remote-hijacking/
As for the hijackability of Airbus 320/321 (321=same model, but longer), you should try Jim Stone’s findings on http://82.221.129.208/a320crash.html: yes, this specific airbus is as bad as the Boeings, for western nazi perps, like Franz Holland in the case of the Germanwings A320, a very easy game.
bp
Sorry, but this site is riddled with emotion and unsubstantiated assertions. Anything is possible but I seriously doubt that an 18 year old airbus A-321 has any of this remote control stuff.
“Sorry, but this site is riddled with emotion and unsubstantiated assertions.”
Of course and why it is a useful datastream on ideological immersion.
I don’t know.
But this technology is already 15 years and older.
Plus: a lot of jets _had_ to be upgraded after 9/11.
So if you complain about others’s “guessing”, why are you guessing yourself?
Much of that stuff can be verified even on wikipedia.
I spent some days with that last spring (germanwings/french alps).
So if you think you need to rule out such a possibility maybe you should first check some facts.
It would have to have been retrofitted if it had it.
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/boeing-wins-patent-uninterruptible-autopilot-system
Emergency landing round-upBoeing wins patent on uninterruptible autopilot system
Published 4 December 2006
New technology can be activated by the pilots, government agencies, even on-board sensors; not even a tortured pilot can give up control; dedicated electrical circuits ensure the system’s total independence
[…[
What could go wrong? Power failures/ spikes, software errors, hardware errors, communication errors, hackers, rogue alphabet employees, foreign states, hijackers shooting out the engines….
In awarding any blame, everyone here is forgetting one important essential agent…… Qatar !!
All others are also guilty, sure, but may have been added later or there is simply a fight to see who gets the biggest piece of the cake …..you know, as we say in Spain, “in troubled waters, fishermen gain “…….
If you read this article, somewhat older but essential, in my view, you can see clearly who is really behind everything that happens in Syria, and not only, but also of which occurred in Lybia and the why of the famous “Arab Springs”. Someone has wondered why everything went “so well” in Tunisia?
You will find the answer in the article.
Keep an eye! because is a very unstable link, from time to time you will have to leave it when it appears CNBC propaganda that will force you to go back to the original article that linked this as hyperlink and which was provided by “friend senior strategist” , and surely hardly anyone has read.
As the article is also very interesting and full of hyperlinks to read throughout the week, and also you will need it to return to that about Qatar when the mentioned advertising will appear, I´ll put it here too:
“Qatar rich and dangerous” ( The unstable article )
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Qatar-Rich-and-Dangerous.html
And the article which has the above as hiperlink under the name “Thanis”:
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/11/04/eu-nato-set-destabilize-russia-anti-putin-propaganda-operation.html
When advertisement from CNBC appears, you will have not but to go back to this article and then continue reading the other until a new advertisement appears. A bit hard, but worth do it.
Do not despair!
Egypt has acquired the French Mistrals (financed by Saudi Arabia). It was in the process of making a $1 billion(?) deal with Russia for Mistral-specific helicopters. If there was a bomb, it was aimed at both Egypt and Russia.
The western governments are gloating over the deaths. They are also salivating over the high probability, in their mind, the Russia will do a ‘shock and awe’ in Syria, leading to mass civilian casualties (real or fabricated). This would be used to ‘justify’ western intervention in the eyes of western citizens. The ‘justification’ being intervention to save civilians from supposed murderous monsters (Assad/Putin, not ISIS naturally).
there are no more rumours, because it was an ISRAELI F16 JET FIGHTER from RAMON AIR FORCE BASE that shot down the RUSSIAN airliner, and it was no accident it was premeditated and intended as only the ISRAELI’S can do, but what it not clear,is was there also a CIA connection, the Brits as usual are acting the goat, by trying to insinuate that it was and ISIS job, even if they do not have the facility for doing it, it can only be done by a plane using an heat seeking or air to air missile, plus it would be the only way that you would get that wreckage dispersal, also what is not clear is what was the objective, was it hoping to get a response to start world war three, only time will tell, but I think that RUSSIA may already know the answer.
Well, I can say this much. Netenyahu is out of his mind….listen to his speech at the UN…his threats, veiled and otherwise, were quite deliberate and intentional. He sent his message alright.
RR
“there are no more rumours, because it was an ISRAELI F16 JET FIGHTER from RAMON AIR FORCE BASE that shot down the RUSSIAN airliner,”
Certainty is always a useful vector for lateral challenge.
Regards to Penny.
What is interesting is that are tourists in Middle East…Are all of them crazy?
Vor kurzem wurde der Einsatz von 50 Spezialisten in Syrien angekündigt und jetzt ist ein russisches Zivilflugzeug “abgestürzt” worden. An den Reaktionen der USA, Israels und auch UK ist die Handschrift der Auftraggeber und der Täter erkennbar. Ich wünsche dem Volk der Russischen Föderation Kraft und Ausdauer beim Kampf für ihre Souveränität.
Google translation( Vineyard Moderator-EK ): Recently, the use of 50 specialists in Syria has been announced and now is a Russian civilian airliner had been “crashed”. From the reactions of the United States, Israel and UK the handwriting of the contracting authority and the perpetrator is identified. I wish the people of the Russian Federation strength and endurance in the fight for their sovereignty.
Hi andreas233, as the blog language is English I have taken the liberty of translating your comment. I hope this is the correct translation. Perhaps you would like to do it you yourself or maybe next time.
Hallo Andreas,
You posted a very long piece, but all in – I think German. Few to no readers here will be familiar with German and I have neither the time nor the energy at this time of night to do your translating for you.Please, all commentators, if you wish to write in a non-English language, could you use a translator – Yandex has an excellent one, Google too – and then post the translated version. Your contribution is valued, but we need it to contribute easily to the discussion taking place. Many thanks. Mod PS
Dear PS,
thanks for your concern… I thought Andreas233 might want to read my answer in his own language, and there may be some more german readers, too. Since writing in german for germans and writing in anglosaxonamericanaustralian for aa readers
is very different, I am not eager to translate myself. Trying Yandex seems a good idea, but not now, so early in the morning, so late in the night. Thanks
bp
Hulloh Andreas,
what you are saying is that one can recognize a perp’s handwriting by his handwriting, and while I like your pointing to the importance of a perp’s handwriting (including his wilfull signatures) as an investigative tool, I think a statement like A=A does not help us much. I’d propose instead to switch to the format “A=already well known, B (who would have thought it) = also A, C= once again A, and extrapolating all of this we have next to expect a case D=A like always.”
The handwriting in question here is to attack and damage another party, which one has classifieded as a or *the* enemy (of course secretely, applying the eternal nazi mantra “never complain, never explain, but always silently stab in the back” because only this allows to reap the fruits of crime without ever having to pay for them), by covert operations e.g. against aircraft by explosions which are timed to the minute or even second, and where the date_time_stamp points to something like an earlier event which is important for the victim and the perp, designating their differences in values, goals and in the valuation of historical events. An example would be one side saying “71 years ago the turning point of WW2, Stalingrad, lead to our good and well deserved victory”, while the other side, our german renazification government, sees the same event as “a defeat not deserved by our outstandingly skillful and brave army and a terrible error of history which must be undone” (underscored by an expert bomb explosion in Volgograd railway station exactly 71 years after its having been at the center of the last fight of Paulus’ 6th army against the defenders), reversed now (at führer’s.. oops, führeress’ geburtstag), establishing a net result of “17” instead of “71” … and then the handwriting on e.g. the MH17 case, beginning with the flight number, says 17!, 17!, 17! as a sort of satanistic incantation, to tell those who are not too lazy to decipher this code, who did what why.
Such operations have at least two goals and, if they succeed, outcomes: one “real” (human lives are destroyed and economical damage produced) and one “symbolical” or “psychological” or “strategical” (doubts as to the motives and capabilities of the attacked are created and then inflated so as to curtail or wipe out the credibility of the victim and thus its room for manoevring and acting).
This handwriting, that of angloamerican+deutsch+israeli (ADI) nazism could be observed in the last years e.g. all over the airplane downings of 2010-4-10 at 10:41 local time in Smolensk on a TU-154M, of 2014-7-17 ca 17:17 local time above Grabovo/Donbass on a B-777, and now on 2015-10-31 at 07:14 RU time on an A321. It could also be observed (partially) within the operations against the Moscow Metro, the Nevskij-Express, buses and the railway station of Stalingrad/Volgograd, and in the operations of Dubravka (40th jubilee of the Cuban crisis) and at the Beslan school (65th jubilee of Hitler’s starting WW2) – and this in all cases because these codes were there because they had been intentionally inserted by the perps (by choosing an appropriate place and time).
Unfortunately, Russia so far did next to nothing for the clarification of these cases, or rather for our information about the information they have: the MAK-report of the “Putin” commission re Smolensk was on thousands of pages nothing but one big lie (The Saker seems to have overlooked this shameful example of Russia’s servility in favour of her worst enemies), and RU did not do much to clarify the MH17 case. Among other deficiencies, RU strictly ignores the recognitional value of the self-indictions of its enemies through these volunteered bits of mildly encrypted information called “handwriting” here.
Taking note of them would deliver: 1. the information by the perps themselves that the operation in question was no “accident” but preplanned massmurder, and that these informers are the perpetrators (self-indiction); this main information is there from the beginning, so that it is not “unknown”, “only” that the victims do not really want to persecute the perpetrators: *this* is the main problem in these cases; 2. when an operation aims at and achieves a result on a preplanned minute or better, all explanation with random factors (“bad weather and bad pilots” as the “Putin” report on Smolensk of the schnapsdatum of 2011-1-12 ridiculed itself, or “drunk russky rebels running wild with a stolen BuK”, bad airplanes and bad maintenance, a missile gone astray at maneuvers held “by chance” at the same place and time etc. etc.) are BS – in these cases always a bomb detonated by a timing device or by remote control must be the reason for the killing and damage. Well, *if* ETs are real and *if* they are nazis, their helping their earthbound buggers with invisible death rays etc. may be one more option, while a2a missiles and/or cannons of fighter planes could cause a similar result, but with a much larger possibility of failing and also of getting detected by satellites, radar etc and of being nailed afterwards by the analysis of shrapnell damage etc; 3. “looking for hard facts” like the type of explosive or ignition device seem redundant: the hollandish nazi “investigators” of MH17 had all freedoms of nazi perps protected from above, they could “find” or invent whatever they wanted in their secret investigation, and came up with nothing palpable, only platitudes about “a BuK being perhaps the cause…”. The “proofs” they allegedly looked for but did not find are notoriously falsified: the perps use explosives produced by the victims etc etc. The tough and endlos investigations of the “hard facts” in the TWA 800 and PanAm 103 cases brought the same results as with MH17: “either it was a missile or it wasn’t” (TWA800), and “either it was the Libyans or someone else” (PanAm103). “They did it themselves” said RU about PL101 and FR about Germanwings, both ridiculing their victims. The fetish of a “tough” investigation of “hard facts”, in the cases where one is needed (of professionally obfuscated gov crime) seems to be less than a paper tiger. 4. Instead a reconstruction of the “real” and “psychological” goals, and through this the detection of their authors, the perps (“die eigentlichen Täter”, those who ordered the crime to be done) seems the best approach. 5. This step, however, is never done because the perps and their victims are usually entangled in a hot sado-maso-affair, where the eternal victims want more than anything else to spare the eternal perps. Stalin believed in Hitler, and nobody was so impolite to down the plane with which Hitler left Berlin behind on 1945-4-30, saving himself and most of nazism first to Danmark, then to Spain, and finally to Argentina. And Putin “admires” “Merkel” and snuggles the restless scum that only wants to destroy him and his country calling them unflinchingly “our friends and partners”. Such devout lies would not survive a real investigation, so there is none. Or there is, and its outcome is secret.
Let’s wait for the final word to the public, perhaps “bad luck and bad passengers”?
bp
Our next batch of homework – thanks Elsi. Have just finished reading about the ‘Satanic Shrubs’ of which Quatar is but one.
Some homework for you (thanks to Anonymous on another tread for this excellent link) :
http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/att/index.php/jahcubites-a-world-rule/1174-isis-exposed-shocking-interview
Your welcome, eimar.
Glad to see that you have reached the comprehension. It´s a relief for me that at least one person has done after so much effort here and there.
Thanks for your link also.
Sorry to hear about your problems with fire and water and with those specimens.
Take care, please, and I hope all is solved soon.
Hugs!
Cheers!
Most plane crashes are caused by poor maintenance or pilot error. It is only a very small number of crashes that are caused by deliberate sabotage. There are famous crashes that were caused by sudden structural failure. One notorious example was a maintenance crew that removed worn rivets in the tail section but forgot to replace them with new rivets. I suspect the “terrorist” theory is being floated to distract attention from the possibility that this particular Airbus model had some manufacturing defect that caused the thing to suddenly come apart in midair – a kind of “reverse conspiracy theory” if you will.
There are persistent reports of Airbus defective composite tail sections falling off and overautomated control systems going haywire. (Coincidentally, there is also a history of airplane crashes coming out of that Sharm el Sheikh airport including such things as airplane tires blowing up from hitting objects on the runway that suggests that there is poor ground maintenance going on there.)
Obviously a design defect in a widely sold Airbus model would be a lot more costly for the industry than just explaining the disaster by rounding up the usual suspects to bomb some Russian airliner. The “solution” in the latter case would be just not to fly on cutrate Russian airliners in terrorist areas, which would only impact those the big boys don’t care about anyway — until the next crash, that is.
You really think Daesh planted the bomb? I find that conclusion quite naive. ISIS et al are creations of the West and its vassals — it is closer to a franchise than a genuine “jihadi army”. This was obvious from the beginning. A false flag attack by Western covert assets would be more likely if a bomb were found to be the cause.
I detect a bit of wishful thinking here. The one case of catastrophic tail structural failure mentioned above (Japan Airlines Flight 123) took more than half an hour to reach the ground, and the pilots were in communication with ATCs the whole time, and partially in control of the plane at least at the beginning.
Flight 9268 didn’t even send a distress signal. It dropped 5000 feet in the first minute, then it disappeard from radar and could no longer be tracked.
Are there any cases of tail structural failure that make an airplane drop at that rate and instantly incapacitates the pilots to even activate a distress signal??
I agree with you that this would not be very significant at a political level IF it was “Daesh”. Sadly, I find it much more likely that the “Daesh” western masters were the ones who at least masterminded, and likely executed, this operation. And THAT of course would be so hugely significant that the probability of Russia even hinting at it is pretty much zero, even if they had absolute proof of it. It would be simply unmentionable. And I don’t say this as criticism. It is quite understandable. It would not be wise for them say they know something like that even if they know it.
You may well be right, but if that’s what they find and do nothing – they only invite further attacks from a source that recognises Russia’s vulnerability and acquiescence by action or lack thereof.
If that is indeed what Russia discovers they should attempt to chase the blame to the likes of Saudi Arabia & Qatar.
Sanction these countries perhaps unless they hand over the suspects – which of course they won’t.
Not naming and shaming these countries for their support of ISIS is part of the reason they would feel emboldened to carry out an attack like this in the first place for godsake!!
There’s one thing more to consider which somehow did not get much coverage – at that time and only 60-80 km from the crash point joint air force combat drills were taking place – Israel, US, Greece and Poland. Which means intensified air space surveillance, many combat planes and weaponry in the air.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-and-israel-conducted-war-games-in-the-vicinity-of-russian-plane-crash-location/5486434
Greece in exercises with Israel? The Goldman Sachs connection lives on! Tsipras is an Obama-class confidence-trickster, no doubt about it.
Mulga, if you compare Greece and Ukraine with each other, it becomes instantly clear what utter hogwash the “left/right” divide amounts to in Europe. Greece — a NATO and EU colony — would have been a coal black military dictatorship hellhole by now had Tsipras and Syriza shown the slightest intents to rebel against the Troika and team up with Russia and BRICS. And, even more tellingly, the meteoric rise of this “radicalized” Social Democratic stunt was conditioned upon Tsipras’s highly accurate assessment of the Greek masses as solid, dependable Western (First World) loyalists. However, neither Tsipras, nor his chauvinist electorate understood that their beloved West has reached a point of no return in its process of rot and decay and, therefore, wasn’t in the mood for any bogus ‘anti-austerity’ nonsense whatsoever. Just like the Ukros, the Greeks got exactly what the Eurocrats had in store for them, courtesy of their all-out cretinism.
Mulga,
Hang on to your left leg. Your right leg too.
This is as much an attempt to deflect attention from the Planned Parenthood scandal – which featured doctors discussing the best way to harvest baby parts for the biotech industry – as it is to propagandize on behalf of the Chinese ‘threat’ industry.
Wow. They’d monetize anything – even b******g.
Who had motive and opportunity? Who understands airport security better than anyone? Who stands to gain in the global business of airport security when it gets even tighter as a result of this incident? Who wants to turn the Russian public, especially on the issue of intervening in Syria in Assad’s favor, against Putin who’s approval rating is at an all-time high with the motive of getting Russia out of Syria? Who specializes in planting bombs to commit extra-judicial executions caring squat for collateral civilians and with specialized knowledge of airport security can get operatives in and out of other countries without detection? Who specializes in communications technology and can produce chatter? Who is al-Sisi’s real boss and could make him turn on Russia on a dime or use him as a stooge?
For months, the U.S. is targeting ISIS positions in Iraq and Syria, but no U.S. airliner was targeted by ISIS and no sophisticated terrorist act was committed by ISIS. Who could have planned this kind of attack in short delay? Who has the capability?
Russia has not been exclusively focused on ISIS it’s targeting other enemies of Assad as well. There is another player in Syria that has been flying under the radar that has been aiding an AQ affiliate and other enemies of Assad; who stands to lose a lot if Russia continues in this conflict and succeeds.
Who monitors the Sinai region, knows it well and has the best intelligence on groups operating in the area?
Which players actively involved in Syria behind the scenes have kept the lowest profile since this Russian airliner was downed?
There are 3 that have been keeping a low profile and two have not. ISIS and the U.S. are not keeping a low profile on this, the Saudis, Turkey and Israel have kept a low profile. I believe the one in the latter group that best responds to all the questions I’ve posed here did the crime.
“Who stands to gain in the global business of airport security when it gets even tighter as a result of this incident? ”
Cui bono is a useful tool in deflection, frustration and obfuscation.
Correlation is also not causation although the opponents tend towards that conflation.
The wise wait for the analysis of data based on methods of rigour – patience is a virtue, although one often escaping the opponents’ attention.
Another Iranian general was assassinated on Friday.. The Syrian secret service has started mass arrests in the SAA.. This would be like the 3rd Iranian general on top of the 2 Hezbollah high ranking operatives.. Someone is passing information onto the enemy on where high ranking officers will show up and when.
I strongly believe that the only reason the US and the UK quickly and strongly suggested that a bomb is the cause of this tragedy, and they will keep saying it ad nauseam, is to damage the colossal support and popularity, inside and outside Russia, of Putin and his administration,. Russia has to be extremely, EXTREMELY careful and vigilant, because she will be targeted repeatedly by the low life Anglo-Zionist terrorists, those mad dogs (no offense to our four-legged friends) will never give up.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-suspicious-downing-of-russias-metrojet-airbus-a321-200-the-isis-is-a-creation-of-the-cia/5486670 us Downing of Russia’s Metrojet Airbus
Dear Saker Community and Moderator,
I would like to briefly call your attention to a form of bigotry that goes on here…it is actually worse than that. It is the referencing the general public as or even humanity which boil down to individuals as “sheeple” or those who are preoccupied with things that we deem more important than those we concern ourselves with. We know a Nazi is a Nazi, a Zionist a Zionist, etc these terms are perfectly fine. But this sheeple. This put down. Ignorance in Western Society is allowed to continue for a reason. It serves those very interests that we are trying to defeat. I would like to see posts with that term removed. To those that think they are so much smarter than everybody else. Maybe they should think about that!
Yours,
RR
“I would like to briefly call your attention to a form of bigotry that goes on here…it is actually worse than that. It is the referencing the general public as or even humanity which boil down to individuals as “sheeple” or those who are preoccupied with things that we deem more important than those we concern ourselves with. ………. I would like to see posts with that term removed.”
Perhaps your perspective can be modified by comments including but not necessarily limited to the following:
/dreams-of-a-sleeping-alligator-dream-four-waking-up/comment-page-1/#comment-168195
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169110
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169287
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169576
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169599
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169293
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169115
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169159
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169296
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169584
/a-few-thoughts-about-the-rumors-around-the-downing-of-kogalymavia-flight-9268/comment-page-1/#comment-169606
A high noise to signal ratio affords many opportunities including but not restricted to:
Increasing opportunities for plausable denial.
Offering a place to take a leak in times of full bladders.
Increasing “viewing” figures.
Increasing data streams.
Why are you so against being called sheeple? It is a general term here injustice is tolerated and even supported to a great extent because they think they are better somehow and it will never happen to them. And most of the people everywhere are sheeple.. In some countries a few do something about it even if they wont make a difference but at least they do. From what I have seen, in places like the US it is far worse because they think that injustice is deserved.. The best example is the number of people watching cops and rooting for the police to beat up people.. In one show I saw a women with a knife in distress, she kept telling the officers to leave her alone.. But one of the cops thought it was wasting his time so he jumped her and killed her. so rather than giving her space and time to calm down and talking to her, a few hours were just too important for some people to waste and not worth her life.. It does not matter if it was her fault and she was not acting rationally.. But she was not threatening anyone else and in her own space out of the general public.. The commentators were ecstatic because they would get more people to watch the show and kept making excuses for the cops who killed her. Like how facing danger and bodily harm they risked their life… To kill her.. WTF????? Leave 2 officers there to watch and call the medics to take her away once she calmed down.. Yes society does need and in many places does take the time and effort to placate distressed members of society.. That is what makes us a society.. The people accepting such an event as acceptable directly support injustice.. They are as much sheepie as any victims. This is so wide spread that you can not even talk in public about it.. Yet I also seen some cases where the tables were turned and injustice were done to them.. But then it does become injustice and they are the victims.. If they were not such sheepie maybe it would not have happened to them. The west is more and more brain washed to think of themselves as exceptional.. That injustice will never happen to them because that only happens to others who don’t follow the same western culture.. So basically we come down t western culture is injustice.. Mostly to others who can not defend themselves.. but sooner or later it will come home and if what we are seeing now, it already has to a great extent.. I would think the people who come here have a moral compass, they see something wrong with what they are seeing.. Rather then just accepting things, they are trying to figure out what is wrong.. For the longest time I was a sheepie too, I just accepted things as they are.. It is not fun to have woken up.. It makes life much harder to live.. To see the world the way it is. It is far harder to do something about it, and it wont make much difference.. But rather than just accepting injustice I try to fight.. It may not make any difference.. But it might matter somehow somewhere and sometime.. Like the germans who opposed hitler in the face of overwhelming odds.. They had no effect on the actions of germans at the time. but 50 years later their actions show not everyone went along with it. There were a few who saw injustice and would not stand for it. is that worth their lives? That depends.. If we all without exception just allow injustice to happen, then that would be the end of humanity with no hope whatsoever.. I think people would just look at all germans as being hopeless because of their actions.. The very few is why we think there is hope and many others given a chance to change.. because maybe they are not hopeless after all.. And to say people are ignorant about things.. Well very few are.. They are selectively ignorant because they refuse to see.. many know exactly what they are seeing..
“They are selectively ignorant because they refuse to see”
The noun ignorance and the adjective ignorant are derived from the verb to ignore.
Hence refusing to see constitutes ignorance.
However you could be subject to the ideology of “exceptionalism” in presupposing that you “know” that they can see but refuse to do so.
“Why are you so against being called sheeple?”
I and my associates are not against any datastream since, amongst other uses it furnishes data on ideological immersion, in this case the notion of “exceptionalism” which is a widespread support of the opponents’ system, especially when rendered into more palatable forms such as “the individual” or “unequal through difference with appropriate rewards”.
Ideology is akin to a fishing net – the more you wriggle the more you become ensnared.
I was visiting Dubai when the US shot down the Iranian airliner.. My family knew a few people on that flight.. A lot of expats would take the flight to leave the country to change visas and it was a half hour flight and cheap..
When I went back to the US, people would get in my face that the Iranians setup the US, they wanted the US to shoot down the flight.. So Americans would look bad in the eyes of the world. That is why many of the dead were found tied together in the water..
The captain and officers of the Vincent all got medals and promotions for shooting down a civilian airliner.. A lot of the passengers were foreigners.. Americans took pride in doing it because Iran deserved it.. They wanted to make the US look bad and they would show what patriotism was.. so they celebrated the deaths of a few hundred people..
I did not understand it at the time.. I personally did not know anyone as I was young but we knew people who had people on that flight.. So I did not say anything other than just wonder.. Now I know better..
“So I did not say anything other than just wonder.. Now I know better..”
Let me suggest that knowledge is a lateral process which cannot attain omniscience.
Immersion in ideology is akin to being immersed in a swimming pool.
When you start to come out you still carry droplets on your skin.
Similarly you cannot “convince” anyone of anything to a level where they act upon it – they need to convince themselves although certain experiences can be encouraged and facilitated.
Opponents faciltate certain experiences as a consequence of their “beliefs” and “actions”.
Some forgetting Pandoras box still hold illusions as to the 1990’s in Russia.
Some have even contended that it was a terrible time to plan.
Immersion in these views will not illuminate why Russia is not the Soviet Union.
Enjoy your journey.
It was IsraHell that took revenge on Russia >> https://goo.gl/g86m4B
There are many here, who think they are smarter than the rest, that is the mark of our time; to be smarter, and look where we are with that, where it has got us. Mankind is very sick, close to extinction and we need a new paradigm, a redress, for healing and for survival.
And England, to be sorted out? It is said that Joseph of Arimathea was there, and Jesus, and some legends say Mary, his mother, was buried there.
Rudolf Steiner was there, several times. The waves hurl themselves at the shores surrounding the island continuously, but no one, nothing can take all that away, not even Satan, or Ahriman, though he would love to.
“There are many here, who think they are smarter than the rest, that is the mark of our time; to be smarter, and look where we are with that, where it has got us. Mankind is very sick, close to extinction and we need a new paradigm”
The strategy presently adopted by some is facilitation of the lateral process of transcendence from unequal but different to equal and different.
A “paradigm” though is a linear construct subsuming the notion that the destination is known before the journey is made – a romantic dialectic if you prefer – where as in any lateral process all components interact and change, hence no outcome can be pre-determined.
The key is always to be guided by purpose, not holograms of specifics.
In such a scenario of equal and different “smarter than the rest” is subsumed into – and different.
In the opponents’ system “smarter than the rest” is subsumed into – but different – which is the basis upon which inequality is sustained.
Well, i don’t know… but why be so pedantic about paradigm?
Paradigm comes from Greek παράδειγμα (paradeigma), “pattern, example, sample”[1] from the verb παραδείκνυμι (paradeiknumi), “exhibit, represent, expose”[2] and that from παρά (para), “beside, beyond”[3] and δείκνυμι (deiknumi), “to show, to point out”.[4] –
– and so on, but where is the singular inference that the construction is a completed linear process, linear is line and design, why can’t it be in the process of design, hidden but predesignated like DNA? What is unknown, or hidden, may anyway develop in mysterious ways that are unexpected. Life is a mystery, don’t kill it, think paradigmatically about solutions for the future, now!
Transcendence and the romantic dialectic truly are preferable to me but thanks anyway.
“but why be so pedantic about paradigm?”
Because it is limiting and given ideology most likely fashioned/projected from elements of the opponents ways of seeing/thinking.
An analysis of the Bolshevik project will illuminate this, or in a more simple version George Orwell’s Animal Farm.
There are also numerous examples “closer to home”, for example “exceptionalism” in its various forms.
“linear is line and design”
Linear is a quantitative relationship within determined limits – a closed system however wide the limits.
Transcendence requires qualitative change.
The opponents’ try to bridge this lacuna by concepts/techniques such as second level binary.
Some opponents even try to “capture” the analogue in a dynamic environment – examples of which include the surveillance state and the efforts to achieve “full spectrum dominance”.
“Transcendence and the romantic dialectic truly are preferable to me”
The romantic dialectic for example as illustrated by Mr. Hegel posits a process towards a predetermined state of grace, for example free markets or democracy or freedom, an hence is a linear relationship – a closed system however wide the limits.
The materialist dialectic for example as illustrated by Mr. Marx has no predetermined end, but a purpose to aid/facilitate qualitative change ergo it is a lateral relationship – an open system.
The romantic dialectic therefore precludes transcendence.
“hidden but predesignated like DNA?”
Lateral change and the use of lateral methods within various sciences are increasing in areas of application and velocity, hence some may challenge the view that DNA is predesignated and does not undergo change in interaction with environments.
“think paradigmatically about solutions for the future, now!”
My associates and I do not restrict our activities to thinking, we also test hypotheses including strategies, through practice. This has been a consistent practice over many years and in a small way has encouraged lateral trajectories and velocities.
“In such a scenario of equal and different “smarter than the rest” is subsumed into – and different.”
We are aware of that romantic dialectics are preferable to many since change is discomforting.
However the world and phenomena within/withon it are laterally interactive and hence change is constant, the variables including trajectory and velocity.
Preference for romantic dialectics may inform displacement strategies from denial to conflating strategies with wishes, as the opponents consistently illustrate.
A wiser strategy is to aid/faciltate lateral change including by transforming “the environment”
A blog is a broadcast medium and hence I thank you for your comments.
This is more of a punishment for Egypt than Russia. Egypt has moved almost completely to the Russian camp since the fall the Brotherhood regime.
A missile with a post entry charge or a stowed on board charge but either way not a mechanical fault.
http://app.debka.com/n/article/25001/Putin-halts-flights-to-Egypt-until-“true-causes”-known-for-Metrojet-crash
I would suggest another alternative which relates to a structure failure: the distant take over (or hijacking) through the fly-by-wire system. There is in such a case very little difference with steering a drone. See the analysis on Christopher Bollyn’s blog.
http://www.bollyn.com/#article_15282
Another Iranian general was assassinated on Friday.. The Syrian secret service has started mass arrests in the SAA.. This would be like the 3rd Iranian general on top of the 2 Hezbollah high ranking operatives.. Someone is passing information onto the enemy on where high ranking officers will show up and when.
And who’s in the business on conducting extra-judicial assassinations of hi-ranking Iranians and Hezbollah and has maintained operatives in Syria for years?
Third possibility, about a year ago some hackers ‘took control’ of an airplane’s control systems, but did so in an ‘observing mode only’, they say. This could have been part of a ‘crowdsource me’ campaign, or maybe even a airline greenmail extortion. We know both Boeing and Airbus can be remotely controlled, but can they be remotely hacked, then controlled? Radar altimetry shows the plane made four or five violent up and down maneuvers, which is inconsistent with the tail falling off, but not with a bmob, if they had lost their instruments, as there is no ‘horizon’ and Airbus is fly- by-wire. The alleged video showed the agents shouting Allahuahkbar even before hand, as though they were counting down the seconds on a timer. But if it were hacked then controlled by agents, the hack was to disintegrate the plane by forcing those extreme maneuvers. ISIS has no technology to do this! The plane reported (they say) electronic hash as it approached the Israeli border. But there would be no trace of that hack on the black box, or any nearby sigint. It would be the perfect State crime, …wash, rinse and re-extort. And as there would be no evidence, this possibility cannot be one of the outcome report conclusions, or the justifiable basis of any military counter-response. Just more Shekinah, as we wait for the One Big Hack that will crash the Matrix.
IF the cause of crash was imposed externally (like bomb, missile, etc..), it would be a major set back for the empire in my opinion. I’m sure Russia will find out and will use this information to hold those responsible by their “most vulnerable parts” thru strategic manouvres behind public eyes and extract whatever is required for it to win..be it about syria, ukraine, oil price war etc…just a thought.