Well, I am still running around, but while in the car I watched some rather interesting shows on Russian TV including one called “Politics with Peter Tolstoi” who had a bunch of interesting guests talking about the issue of MH17 shot down over Novorussia. Here again, I got very little time, are some bullet-points of some of what they said:
1) MH17 was most likely not shot down by a Buk but by an R-60M air-to-air missile shot from a Ukie Su-25 which has a non-pressurized cockpit (being a close air support aircraft) but whose engines can easily bring him that high up and whose pilot can breathe oxygen through a mask. At such altitudes, however, the Su-25 is rather slow, but that lack of speed is easily compensated by the speed of the R-60M air-to-air missile whose ideal engagement distant is 3-5km which is *exactly* how far the Su-25 was from MH17. The main evidence that it was an R-60M missile which hit MH17 is in the radar signal which shows that the aircraft was not ripped into shreds as would be the case with the massive warhead of the Buk SAM, and the fact that even on the ground the body of the plane does not appear to be shredded the way a Buk warhead would.
2) The reason why the Ukie SBU immediately seized the recording of the conversations between the Kiev ATC and MH17 is because the so-called “black boxes” ended up in Resistance hands. The reason why Holland agreed to have the British “decode” these recorders was because they were told so by the USA. The Brits will now let the NSA falsify the data and that falsification will be coordinated with the SBU in Kiev which will eventually release the recordings who will, surprise surprise, full “confirm” the “authenticity” of the NSA-doctored recordings from the UK. Formally, it will be the Dutch which will announce it all in order to better hide the US/UK role in all this.
3) Besides the Russians and the Americans, the Europeans also know what happened (I can personally confirm that I know for a fact that several European countries have their own monitoring systems which observe everything West of the Urals. The Saker)
4) Several guests said that they believed that since the MH17 false flag is turning into a flop, the next step will be to blow up a Ukie nuclear plant and blame Russia.
5) Banderastan has apparently signed 8 agreements with NATO to hold joint exercises in the Ukraine. Most of them are scheduled for September 1st, the date at which Poroshenko has promised to be finished with the repression of the Donbass.
6) One guest declared that he has it from a very solid source in the USA that MH17 was planned by the USA and that the Ukies botched the execution. The plan was for the aircraft to fall into the Rostov region of Russia.
7) One idea which was floated around again is this: to declare that unless the atrocities in the Donbass stop, Russia will recognize the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics. The idea here is to say that IF these republics are recognized, then Russia could then do the same as in Abkhazia and South Ossetia i.e., send in as many military forces as needed to stop the aggression. In terms of international law, this would not be the same as breaching the borders of the Ukraine. Besides, it would mean to exactly the same for Novorussia as the US/NATO are officially doing for the Wahabi insurgency in Syria or what the US did in Kosovo.
8) There was a consensus amongst the guests that future sanctions against Russia are absolutely inevitable simply because the USA is dead set on this idea. However, the Russians are also sure that these sanction won’t bite much and that as long as Russia does not give the US a reason for force the EU to cut itself off the Russian energy supply no real sanctions will be applied.
9) All the guests agreed that Russian should continue to provide covert military and over political aid to Novorussia.
In other news tonight, Russian sources are reporting at least two major defeats for the Ukie forces including one near the town of Georgievka near the Lugansk Airport (still held by the Ukies, but surrounded) were the Ukies lost 30 soliders and several armored vehicles. The Ukie death squad “Donbass” (which is the past had already been completely wiped out twice) is again surrounded near Donetsk.
That’s it Just wanted to update you. Now I got to hit the road again.
See you all later.
The Saker
quote “However, the Russians are also sure that these sanction won’t bite much and that as long as Russia does not give the US a reason for force the EU to cut itself off the Russian energy supply no real sanctions will be applied.”
has russia not leaned yet that anglos put the screws tight not from start but slowly after observing the rersposne.
english pirates titrate their evil designs agasint the response of the victrim-if the victim let them do that tyhen english scum bags will put more sanctions and later when the victim is constrained fully with sanctions the english will send their mercenarties to loot.
russia is headed that way thanks to stupidity of russians.
itis very easy for russai to eliminate nemey-jsut annihilate the english antions which is nto a big task as long as russia promises to germany that other euroepan nations are safe.onlky target englanbd the real evil on this planet.
why does Russia not stop gas supply to england atleast and sparing rest of europe.
hit the most vile enemy first-
if europeans are not btoehred about gas supply then why is russia bothered? even after being kicked around and at piont of being dismemebred by the english controleld anglos vultures why is putin thinking of economy instead of saving russia ? tttfor that russsia needs to actively stop gas to england and aqttack england with nukes or atleast let the english scumbags know what will be their fate.
Some suitable incentives need to be applied to these guys.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-25/company-which-joe-bidens-son-director-prepares-drill-shale-gas-east-ukraine
We all saw with dread that the brits got their hands on the boxes, what a fiasco. Malaysia should have demanded control of them. The only salvation is that by now all Europe suspects foul play and is backing away from the us/brit/ziobank cabal. French bank “fined”, austerity ripoffs everywhere. the hubris is starting to backfire. Prayers for Novorussia, Strelkov, and Saker, drive carefully and watch your back.
Anyone know if it’s possible the Russians already have the ‘black box’ data? There was the opportunity if it can be done without compromising some sealing mechanism. They are to have a member on the team dealing with the data. Hope they can insist on getting access to the entire raw file.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-25/company-which-joe-bidens-son-director-prepares-drill-shale-gas-east-ukraine
In a nutshell Ukraine (or rather its puppetmasters) has decided to let no crisis (staged or otherwise) or rather civil war, go to waste, and while the fighting rages all around, Ukrainian troopers are helping to install shale gas production equipment near the east Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, which was bombed and shelled for the three preceding months, according to local residents cited by Itar Tass. The reason for the scramble? Under peacetime, the process was expected to take many years, during which Europe would be under the energy dictatorship of Putin. But throw in some civil war and few will notice let alone care that a process which was expected to take nearly a decade if not longer while dealing with broad popular objections to fracking, may instead be completed in months!
Western press singing the opposite tune: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/final-days-could-be-approaching-for-russian-backed-separatists-in-eastern-ukraine/article19784648/
Don’t get distracted. The BIG QUESTION is – how did the plane come to be in the war zone? Figure that out and the mystery is solved. If someone is thrown into a den of lions and consequently killed by the lions, the thrower(s) are the murderers, not the lions.
The voice recorder should hold the answers.
I strongly recommend this report that has just come out on 21st Century Wire. It is very solid, based on the available evidence.
MH17 Verdict: Real Evidence Points to US-Kiev Cover-up of Failed False Flag
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/
1 + 1 =?
1. @ KingWorldNews interviewed this top Hedge fund manager (HK) who thinks MH17 was taken down because?
Excerpt link: http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/7/24_Is_This_The_Real_Reason_Why_Malaysian_MH17_Was_Shot_Down.html
“One of the most recent dinners I had was with a Russian senator who is on the ‘no fly’ list, so of course he’s important and close to Putin. All I can tell your readers is that he was adamant that Russia had nothing to do with the downing of the Malaysian aircraft MH17.
(snip)
The bottom line is this Russian senator claims, and other sources I have in that region also agree, that the pro-Russian forces are winning the war in Ukraine. In other words, the Kiev forces are actually losing to this group of seemingly ragtag rebels. The rebels had secured, for the most part, the city of Donetsk, which is a very important source for energy. That city would certainly be very important to the West. There are very important natural gas and energy reserves in the Donetsk area.
But the pro-Russian forces had secured that area, and they had secured the city of Luhansk as well. They were obviously in a position where they could possibly secure Kharkiv, which is the old capital. That’s the biggest city in the east. They were succeeding in what is Putin’s agenda of a democratic solution in which the various areas of what is now Ukraine will simply vote as to whom they want to be part of — either Kiev in the West or Russia to the east, by doing what Crimea did.
So it’s a lot more complicated than what appears in the propaganda pouring out of the mainstream media in the West. But there was no interest on the part of the Russians or the pro-Russian forces in shooting down a commercial aircraft when they actually had the upper hand already. Whereas there was an enormous interest, if you want to believe they were devious enough, on the part of the West to do this and try to put Russia on the back foot by isolating Russia further in terms of dealings with Europe. (snip)
And +1 = ? it’s the energy reserves:
Start the fracking already – Never mind the military action
Take a read @ Zerohedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-25/company-which-joe-bidens-son-director-prepares-drill-shale-gas-east-ukraine
Company In Which Joe Biden’s Son Is Director Prepares To Drill Shale Gas In East Ukraine
Recall what we said earlier today: the proxy Ukraine war just like that in Syria preceding it, “is all about energy.”
Recall also the following chart showing Ukraine’s shale gas deposits, keeping in mind that the Dnieper-Donets basin which lies in the hotly contested eastern part of the nation and where as everyone knows by now a bloody civil war is raging, is the major oil and gas producing region of Ukraine accounting for approximately 90 per cent of Ukrainian production and according to EIA may have 42 tcf of shale gas resources technically recoverable from 197 tcf of risked shale gas in place.
(snip)
”Now put it all together and what happens next should be rather clear.
* * *
Still confused? It’s very simple, really.
In a nutshell Ukraine (or rather its puppetmasters) has decided to let no crisis (staged or otherwise) or rather civil war, go to waste, and while the fighting rages all around, Ukrainian troopers are helping to install shale gas production equipment near the east Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, which was bombed and shelled for the three preceding months, according to local residents cited by Itar Tass. The reason for the scramble? Under peacetime, the process was expected to take many years, during which Europe would be under the energy dictatorship of Putin. But throw in some civil war and few will notice let alone care that a process which was expected to take nearly a decade if not longer while dealing with broad popular objections to fracking, may instead be completed in months
Anon Mongoose
Told ya. Follow the money. Humans are expendable.
Oh the hypocrisy:
> Gen. Dempsey said that the Kremlin “has made the conscious decision to use its military force inside of another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives.”
He means, unlike the country Dempsey is serving?
And then this fantastic insinuation:
> “I think that the Russian military is probably reluctant — — you know, this is risky for me to say this, and 10 of them could end up in a gulag tomorrow — but I think that the Russian military and its leaders that I know are probably somewhat reluctant participants in this form of warfare,” he said.
If this ridiculous claim was true, it would of course show that Dempsey doesn’t give a shit about people ending up in gulags, because “oops, now I’ve said it”, especially considering these would be the “good guys” in the Russian military, as they aren’t gung-ho following Putin’s purported orders to “use its military force inside of another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives”.
Source: http://rt.com/usa/175596-dempsey-ukraine-cold-war/
Fun times. US actions actions a potent military and economic power (energy resources) look more desperate every day. They must be fearing the end of their empire, and the BRICS have lately reached important milestones in the abandonment of the petrodollar, and the us dollar for foreign trade between each and every country in general.
Honk
Espina said
Saker
I remember reading that Russian experts were accompanying/witnessing the opening and analysis of the black boxes in England? If they are indeed in England,on site, surely the Russian govt must have confidence in their ability to oversee the security of this information. Keep up the good work you’re doing a brilliant job, your honesty and humanity shine through…… rants an all :) Espina
1 + 1 =?
1. @ KingWorldNews interviewed this top Hedge fund manager (HK) who thinks MH17 was taken down because?
Excerpt link: http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/7/24_Is_This_The_Real_Reason_Why_Malaysian_MH17_Was_Shot_Down.html
“One of the most recent dinners I had was with a Russian senator who is on the ‘no fly’ list, so of course he’s important and close to Putin. All I can tell your readers is that he was adamant that Russia had nothing to do with the downing of the Malaysian aircraft MH17.
(snip)
The bottom line is this Russian senator claims, and other sources I have in that region also agree, that the pro-Russian forces are winning the war in Ukraine. In other words, the Kiev forces are actually losing to this group of seemingly ragtag rebels. The rebels had secured, for the most part, the city of Donetsk, which is a very important source for energy. That city would certainly be very important to the West. There are very important natural gas and energy reserves in the Donetsk area.
But the pro-Russian forces had secured that area, and they had secured the city of Luhansk as well. They were obviously in a position where they could possibly secure Kharkiv, which is the old capital. That’s the biggest city in the east. They were succeeding in what is Putin’s agenda of a democratic solution in which the various areas of what is now Ukraine will simply vote as to whom they want to be part of — either Kiev in the West or Russia to the east, by doing what Crimea did.
So it’s a lot more complicated than what appears in the propaganda pouring out of the mainstream media in the West. But there was no interest on the part of the Russians or the pro-Russian forces in shooting down a commercial aircraft when they actually had the upper hand already. Whereas there was an enormous interest, if you want to believe they were devious enough, on the part of the West to do this and try to put Russia on the back foot by isolating Russia further in terms of dealings with Europe. (snip)
And +1 = it’s the energy reserves:
Start the fracking already – Never mind the military action
Take a read @ Zerohedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-25/company-which-joe-bidens-son-director-prepares-drill-shale-gas-east-ukraine
Company In Which Joe Biden’s Son Is Director Prepares To Drill Shale Gas In East Ukraine
Recall what we said earlier today: the proxy Ukraine war just like that in Syria preceding it, “is all about energy.”
Recall also the following chart showing Ukraine’s shale gas deposits, keeping in mind that the Dnieper-Donets basin which lies in the hotly contested eastern part of the nation and where as everyone knows by now a bloody civil war is raging, is the major oil and gas producing region of Ukraine accounting for approximately 90 per cent of Ukrainian production and according to EIA may have 42 tcf of shale gas resources technically recoverable from 197 tcf of risked shale gas in place.
(snip)
”Now put it all together and what happens next should be rather clear.
* * *
Still confused? It’s very simple, really.
In a nutshell Ukraine (or rather its puppetmasters) has decided to let no crisis (staged or otherwise) or rather civil war, go to waste, and while the fighting rages all around, Ukrainian troopers are helping to install shale gas production equipment near the east Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, which was bombed and shelled for the three preceding months, according to local residents cited by Itar Tass. The reason for the scramble? Under peacetime, the process was expected to take many years, during which Europe would be under the energy dictatorship of Putin. But throw in some civil war and few will notice let alone care that a process which was expected to take nearly a decade if not longer while dealing with broad popular objections to fracking, may instead be completed in months!>>
Anon Mongoose
Told ya. Follow the money. Humans are expendable.
1 + 1 =?
1. @ KingWorldNews interviewed this top Hedge fund manager (HK) who thinks MH17 was taken down because?
Excerpt link: http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/7/24_Is_This_The_Real_Reason_Why_Malaysian_MH17_Was_Shot_Down.html
“One of the most recent dinners I had was with a Russian senator who is on the ‘no fly’ list, so of course he’s important and close to Putin. All I can tell your readers is that he was adamant that Russia had nothing to do with the downing of the Malaysian aircraft MH17.
(snip)
The bottom line is this Russian senator claims, and other sources I have in that region also agree, that the pro-Russian forces are winning the war in Ukraine. In other words, the Kiev forces are actually losing to this group of seemingly ragtag rebels. The rebels had secured, for the most part, the city of Donetsk, which is a very important source for energy. That city would certainly be very important to the West. There are very important natural gas and energy reserves in the Donetsk area.
But the pro-Russian forces had secured that area, and they had secured the city of Luhansk as well. They were obviously in a position where they could possibly secure Kharkiv, which is the old capital. That’s the biggest city in the east. They were succeeding in what is Putin’s agenda of a democratic solution in which the various areas of what is now Ukraine will simply vote as to whom they want to be part of — either Kiev in the West or Russia to the east, by doing what Crimea did.
So it’s a lot more complicated than what appears in the propaganda pouring out of the mainstream media in the West. But there was no interest on the part of the Russians or the pro-Russian forces in shooting down a commercial aircraft when they actually had the upper hand already. Whereas there was an enormous interest, if you want to believe they were devious enough, on the part of the West to do this and try to put Russia on the back foot by isolating Russia further in terms of dealings with Europe. (snip)
And +1 = it’s the energy reserves:
Start the fracking already – Never mind the military action
Take a read @ Zerohedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-25/company-which-joe-bidens-son-director-prepares-drill-shale-gas-east-ukraine
Company In Which Joe Biden’s Son Is Director Prepares To Drill Shale Gas In East Ukraine
Recall what we said earlier today: the proxy Ukraine war just like that in Syria preceding it, “is all about energy.”
Recall also the following chart showing Ukraine’s shale gas deposits, keeping in mind that the Dnieper-Donets basin which lies in the hotly contested eastern part of the nation and where as everyone knows by now a bloody civil war is raging, is the major oil and gas producing region of Ukraine accounting for approximately 90 per cent of Ukrainian production and according to EIA may have 42 tcf of shale gas resources technically recoverable from 197 tcf of risked shale gas in place.
(snip)
”Now put it all together and what happens next should be rather clear.
* * *
Still confused? It’s very simple, really.
In a nutshell Ukraine (or rather its puppetmasters) has decided to let no crisis (staged or otherwise) or rather civil war, go to waste, and while the fighting rages all around, Ukrainian troopers are helping to install shale gas production equipment near the east Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, which was bombed and shelled for the three preceding months, according to local residents cited by Itar Tass. The reason for the scramble? Under peacetime, the process was expected to take many years, during which Europe would be under the energy dictatorship of Putin. But throw in some civil war and few will notice let alone care that a process which was expected to take nearly a decade if not longer while dealing with broad popular objections to fracking, may instead be completed in months!>>
Anon Mongoose
Told ya. Follow the money. Humans are expendable.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-25/company-which-joe-bidens-son-director-prepares-drill-shale-gas-east-ukraine
Joe Biden’s son’s oil company has started drilling in Slovyansk region for shale gas.
So they are going to falsify the recordings, which we have all expected from the start, and that’s it?
Russia, and her allies, are not going to do anything about it?
That’s one thing I don’t understand. All those countries that have been raped time and again by the empire and know exactly what’s going on (because they’ve seen this movie dozens of times) not publicly taking a stand and show support to Russia.
What about Malaysia? It was one of their planes that went down. Where the hell are they? We have not heard one word from them since the crash.
I’m growing more pessimistic by the day. Putin looked, and sounded, kind of weak in his last public appearance.
France and Germany will NOT turn against their masters.
I just don’t get the strategy here… If there is one.
Take a look at crisisua if you haven’t already. I wanted to suggest at the German Saker site that someone might translate articles from there, but it doesn’t allow non-facebook, non-twitter posting. Today the Ukraine crisis site has 1) Malaysian PM Razak’s rebuke to the US over accusations against Russia, as well as 2) nicely done graphic of the DPR-LNR military situations.
Anyone who is interested might read at True Economics an excellent report on how Russia and China have this year deepened their alliances with other countries. One has to keep remembering what is behind the Ukraine crisis: the shift away from the dollar as an international reserve currency, the development of the Eurasian Union, Asean, the Shanghai Organization, and the pipelines and the new Silk Road, as well as of the union of Latin American countries which works with China and Russia, but is excluding the US. That all has to succeed as qickly as possible – and the Donbass must not be the price, but rather, Putin has to continue as he has been doing for long enough until West Ukraine is too weak from within….
So is this going to be the new fall-back position? Ukrainian troops shot it down by accident during a training exercise?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=743_1406321640
“Oh gee whiz! So sorry! and about all that stuff we said before? Never mind. About Russia? MORE SANCTIONS! because its all their fault really. We wouldn’t be forced to do evil things if it wasn’t for their ridiculous belief they are a sovereign nation. [Quick, get the next ploy ready]”
The sheer evilness implied in the following statement is enough to make one nauseous:
“3) Besides the Russians and the Americans, the Europeans also know what happened (I can personally confirm that I know for a fact that several European countries have their own monitoring systems which observe everything West of the Urals. The Saker)”
I would also say that it means the stakes are very very high in this game. You don’t pull this kind of crap over Ukrainian gas lines. The Syrian poison gas gambit was much less risky. What did they think? That no one would believe the Russians?
RT has this article up:
US pulling out its Cold War-era plans over Ukraine conflict, top commander admits
“Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Thursday at the Aspen Security Forum that the US Department of Defense has been “looking inside of our own readiness models to look at things we haven’t had to look at for 20 years.”
….
” “I think this is very clearly Putin, the man himself, with a vision for Europe, as he sees it, to what he considers to be an effort to redress grievances that were burdened upon Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union, and also to appeal to ethnic Russian enclaves across Eastern Europe with … a foreign policy objective, but also a domestic policy objective,” Dempsey said. “And he’s very aggressive about it, and he’s got a playbook that has worked for him now two or three times. And he will continue to [use it].”
Regardless of what the Russian president’s intentions are, Dempsey said that Putin’s forces are in his opinion hesitant to engage in the Kremlin’s current campaign as interpreted by the US government.
“I think that the Russian military is probably reluctant — — you know, this is risky for me to say this, and 10 of them could end up in a gulag tomorrow — but I think that the Russian military and its leaders that I know are probably somewhat reluctant participants in this form of warfare,” he said.
Even still, Dempsey added, the results could be catastrophic.
“At a time when some folks could convince themselves that Putin would be looking for a reason to de-escalate, he’s actually taken a decision to escalate,” Dempsey said. “Putin may actually light a fire that he loses control over,” he said. “There’s a rising tide of nationalism in Europe right now that has been created in many ways by these Russian activities.”
“And I think that’s a real risk,” Dempsey said. “So I am maintaining an open line of communication with my counterpart, and so far, he’s doing the same with me.”
http://rt.com/usa/175596-dempsey-ukraine-cold-war/
Dempsey seems to believe that Russia should just back down and do what the US wants because not doing so risks things getting out of hand and, well, nobody wants that. True enough, but over and over again Putin has said “enough is enough” very clearly and in no uncertain terms. These people can’t believe that he means what he says, therefore they call him “inscrutable”. They keep thinking he has a price, that he will back down and surrender. First threats, then sanctions, then the plane and more sanctions. Now what?
Interesting times…
Yes, Anonymous @ 22:30
It is quite reasonable to name England as the real evil. I used to call it the World Hate Establishment until I grasped that it is Anglophone, that “Wogs start as Calais” really means that globalist anti-humanity starts at Dover, i.e., that continental satanists obey the Anglo-American lodge. So now I call dynamic world evil The Empire, its principal soldiers “the Goy haters,” and its prince I call “mirage queen Elizabeth NoName,” she who is above politics.
As for Germany not turning against its masters – that’s really a matter of Merkel and Axel Springer. If the press had not fought Steinbrueck every inch of the way, Merkel would have lost the last election. But her election was crucial for the US’ plan for Ukraine (which was held off until after the new government was formed last December). The percentage of the German public that is against the EU eastern expansion and against the government’s policy towards Russia (and Israel)is great enough so that it is kept as much as possible out of public awareness – which takes a lot of manipulation. I personally stopped reading the leading daily, Sueddeutsche, about the time they began to viciously attack Steinbrueck, and I only check in at ARD.de and Die Zeit to see the drift of their (always pro-western) reporting and then, like millions of others, read the comments, which for months have been decidedly pro-Russian. Germany has really been exploited in recent years. This is not the Germany I knew and loved. And one just keeps wondering when the breaking point will come. There must be a fierce fight in Merkel’s own party. Just this week a high representative of the business sector publicly said that the cost of economic sanctions would not be too great for Germany – which means someone in the party ‘got to him,’ which means fighting within the party. – All the more reason for sites like this one to be linked in German to sites in Germany. Schall und Rauch, Der Freitag, KoppVerlag – those are jst a few.
Ukrainian Soldiers – Abandoned in Zelenopillia, Corpses All Around Them
http://bread-circuses-today.blogspot.ca/2014/07/ukrainian-soldiers-abandoned-in.html
Excerpt
[…]
Announcer: About 40 salvos from Grad MLRS in a few short minutes turned the soldiers’ camp into one bloody mess.
Bogdan: Those who were missing their legs, we were trying to bandage them to stop the bleeding. Where we could, we provided them with drippers. Not a single commissioned officer! We had there, not a single one! There were those shouts, that noise – wounded there, dead here.. Men were burning, men were missing their legs. One was missing a leg while the other leg still had a foot attached, hanging every which way like that, and you do not know what to do with that person. We carried him away, we put him down, but literally several minutes later – that’s it, he was dead. Another one wasshell shocked, he could not say a word, do anything….
Announcer: All pleas for help were in vain – the commanders, Bogdan says, were not even planning to send in any reinforcements.
Bogdan: We call our commander, we say, ‘Save us, get us out of here’, and he says: ‘What, you are still alive? No, no one will get you out of there – you are not supposed to be there at all. Officially, you are not there. Get out of there any way you like’. And then he says: ‘What about the equipment, is it still there?’ ‘WHAT equipment can there be??? All of the equipment was burned, the Ural truck, gone completely, machine guns, rifles, documents, clothes, everything burned down. And that KamAz truck – God bless that driver, Taras, who was wounded, wounded, but he pressed together those brushes that were stuck in that truck, and succeeded in moving it all aside, for it not to explode.
[…]
Company In Which Joe Biden’s Son Is Director Prepares To Drill Shale Gas In East Ukraine
Still confused? It’s very simple, really.
In a nutshell Ukraine (or rather its puppetmasters) has decided to let no crisis (staged or otherwise) or rather civil war, go to waste, and while the fighting rages all around, Ukrainian troopers are helping to install shale gas production equipment near the east Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, which was bombed and shelled for the three preceding months, according to local residents cited by Itar Tass. The reason for the scramble? Under peacetime, the process was expected to take many years, during which Europe would be under the energy dictatorship of Putin. But throw in some civil war and few will notice let alone care that a process which was expected to take nearly a decade if not longer while dealing with broad popular objections to fracking, may instead be completed in months!
The people of Slavyansk, which is located in the heart of the Yzovka shale gas field, staged numerous protest actions in the past against its development. They even wanted to call in a referendum on that subject. Environmentalists are particularly concerned with the consequences of hydrofracing, a method used for shale gas extraction, because it implies the use of extremely toxic chemical agents which can poison not only subsoil waters but also the atmosphere. Experts claim that not a single country in the world has invented a method of utilization of harmful toxic agents in the process of development of shale gas deposits.
Not only them but also all-important Germany, which two weeks ago announced it would halt shale-gas drilling for the next seven years over groundwater pollution concerns.
Which clearly makes Ukraine, potentially the last place with massive shale gas deposits and no drilling ban, quite valuable to those who want to develop a major source of shale gas, one which reduces Europe’s reliance on Russian gas even more, yet one whose future depends on one simple question: who controls East Ukraine?
Because what better way to accelerate “next steps” than to start drilling for gas in the middle of the Donetsk republic as a civil war is waging in all directions, and where public mood has shifted decidedly against the local “separatists” in the aftermath of the MH-17 tragedy.
The punchline: who will develop the gas field in conjunction with Shell (jointly owned by the Netherlands and the UK: the two countries that loathe Putin the most in the aftermath of the MH-17 disaster) which in May 2012 announced a tender for the right to develop the Yuzovka shale gas deposit?
Burisma, Ukraine’s oil and gas production holdings, also has the right to develop the shale gas fields in the Dnieper-Donetsk basin of Eastern Ukraine. The same Burisma where R. Hunter Biden, Joseph’s son, was appointed a director two months ago.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-25/company-which-joe-bidens-son-director-prepares-drill-shale-gas-east-ukraine
http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag/5393317?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38FBFiBSM-A&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-4RgakhJw&feature=youtu.be
http://www.infowars.com/pilots-heard-ukrainian-air-traffic-control-order-mh17-to-change-route/
http://www.infowars.com/analyst-germany-secretly-planning-to-join-brics/
http://rt.com/business/175508-ukraine-votes-western-naftogaz/
In french dear friends,but excellent analysis of the present geopolitical situation,from Genève
http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forum-monetaire.com%2Fles-usa-pour-tenter-de-ralentir-leur-declin-entrainent-le-monde-vers-le-chaos-et-la-tyrannie%2F&h=EAQFf07IKAQG1cuz3tQLCsW03Q5wiq9Yglqh4Ne8v4QjR8g&enc=AZOsFK8sdyDClwWTcG_Lr00F02oo0eThCfFinkqiUOM4fIqMBiKePmV8cDQtTuZgWT6lItLfOaMXM9NSyijqErgi&s=1
Talk of fighting in and around Donetsk tonight. Makes me nervous that some treachery has happened or some mercenary force arrived.
Coming across the twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/BradCabana
Kiev is surely desperate for some success. Keep hoping their offensive will just exhaust itself and the militia will have a break. I am sure the other side wants desperately to break them before that happens – and take the crash site.
International business times using a wrong picture to accuse Strelkov of 1992 massacre in Bosnia
Igor ‘Strelkov ‘ Girkin (C) pictured in Visegrad in 1992 along with a Russian mercenary and a Bosnian Serb commander
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/igor-strelkov-key-mh17-crash-suspect-linked-massacre-3000-bosnian-muslims-1992-1458304
BUT (from April)
На фото: Александр Мухарев (в центре), командир отряда русских наемников «Царские волки». (Фото из архива Александра Мухарева)
In the photo: Alexander Mukharev (center), commander of the Russian mercenaries “Royal wolves.” (Photo courtesy of Alexander Muhareva)
http://vichivisam.ru/?p=59215
“2) The reason why the Ukie SBU immediately seized the recording of the conversations between the Kiev ATC and MH17 is because the so-called “black boxes” ended up in Resistance hands.”
&
“The plan was for the aircraft to fall into the Rostov region of Russia.”
Whether the black boxes fell into Novorussian or Russian hands, I’m sure it would mean the same thing to the ZPC/NWO side with regard to ATC communications and radar logs. Those were taken to prevent knowledge of the shadowing Ukrainian aircraft reaching the people in the west. Also the same reason the the ZPC’s twitter asset has Carlos’ twitter account wiped.
I also concur with what Espina said…25 July, 2014 23:58, I’ve read it reported that a Russian expert will be present at the analyzing of the black boxes in the UK. Depending on the adolescent games the public schoolbois in the UK play regarding any Russian participation in the analysis, this should make it more difficult for the ZPC/NWO to mess with the black box data. Though such corruption is still possible, and expected, given the UK’s slavish subservience to the ZPC/NWO freakshow.
вот так
Malaysia? (@23:00 & +1-00:06)
Why no public outrage in Malaysia?
(Counterpunch):
“And what about Malaysia and Indonesia? Indonesia lost 12 people on that ill-fated flight.
Most of the Southeast Asian countries are historically “client” states of the West, with hardly any independent, non-corporate media. Indonesia has been exactly that since the 1965 ‘events’. Malaysia, pushing for an independent course under Dr. Mahathir’s rule, is presently being lured by the US, which is trying to establish military bases there, or to at least gain access to existing Malaysian ones.
Suddenly, a great amount of US funding has been unleashed, to win over Malaysian intellectuals, some of the most shamefully subservient in the region. Several have already began departing for conferences, cultural exchanges and writer’s retreats, to destinations all over the United States, all expenses paid.
In Kuala Lumpur, there was deadly silence after the downing of MH17. Not one writer or filmmaker that I know and contacted wanted to go on record. One mistaken word and the entire rosy dream of Western ‘funding’ would go up in flames. . . .”
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/25/mh17-sacrificed-airliner/
Fwd from Canuckistan:
Hope this is not too far off the topic (have not caught up with comments/etc yet) but it seems rather important. This will be posted in 2 parts due to character limit…
It Turns Out Hamas Didn’t Kidnap and Kill the 3 Israeli Teens After All
By Katie Zavadski
When the bodies of three Israeli teenagers, kidnapped in the West Bank, were found late last month, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not mince words. “Hamas is responsible, and Hamas will pay,” he said, initiating a campaign that eventually escalated into the present conflict in the region.
But now, officials admit the kidnappings were not Hamas’s handiwork after all.
Non-plagiarizing BuzzFeed writer Sheera Frenkel was among the first to suggest that it was unlikely that Hamas was behind the deaths of Gilad Shaar, Naftali Frenkel, and Eyal Yifrach. Citing Palestinian sources and experts the field, Frenkel reported that kidnapping three Israeli teens would be a foolish move for Hamas. International experts told her it was likely the work of a local group, acting without concern for the repercussions:
[Gershon Baskin] pointed out that Hamas has earlier this month signed an agreement to form a unity government with Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, bridging, for the first time in seven years, the Palestinian leadership in the West Bank and Gaza.
“They will lose their reconciliation agreement with Abbas if they do take responsibility for [the kidnappings],” Baskin added.
Today, she was proven right:
Today, she was proven right:
After Israel’s top leadership exhaustively blamed Hamas for kidnap of 3 teens, they’ve now admitted killers were acting as “lone cell.”
— Sheera Frenkel (@sheeraf) July 25, 2014
Order of events: 3 teens kidnapped->100s of Palestns in WB arrested->revenge attacks on Palestinians->violence along Gaza/Israel border->war
— Sheera Frenkel (@sheeraf) July 25, 2014
To recap: 3 teens kidnapped->100s of Palestinians in WB arrested->revenge attacks on Palestinians->violence along Gaza/Israel border->war
— Sheera Frenkel (@sheeraf) July 25, 2014
Repeated inconsistencies in Israeli descriptions of the situation have sparked debate over whether Israel wanted to provoke Hamas into a confrontation. Israeli intelligence is also said to have known that the boys were dead shortly after they disappeared, but to have maintained public optimism about their safe return to beef up support from the Jewish diaspora. Writing for Al Jazeera, Musa al-Gharbi argued that Israel was deliberately provoking Hamas:
(cont’d…)
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html
(…cont’d)
All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas. This pattern of deception continues under the ongoing military offensive in Gaza. For example, last week in collaboration with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El Sisi and Abbas, in its efforts to alienate Hamas, Israel announced a bad-faith cease-fire proposal, which Hamas was not consulted on and never agreed to but whose violation supposedly justified Israel’s expansion and intensification of the military campaign into Gaza.
Despite continued negotiations, the violence shows no signs of letting up, and after Thursday night’s massive protests in the West Bank, there is still no ceasefire agreement. On Friday, it became clear that U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry’s attempts to broker a seven-day truce were rejected by Israeli officials. Instead, Israel will apparently widen its ground operation in the Gaza Strip, despite international outcry about the civilian death toll. According to unnamed officials, the proposed truce was too generous to Hamas’s demands.
Hamas, meanwhile, still hasn’t weighed in on the agreement, whose details are being kept secret, but continued to launch rockets into Israel. International peace talks are set to resume in France this weekend, and we’re keeping our fingers crossed.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html
What is the feeling about Dutch and/or Australian troops securing the crash site?
My feeling is that the Dutch would be OK but I don’t trust the Australians. The militia would just need to make sure to send some PR people over there to make a good impression and make sure that they are protected from individual assassins. If attacked by Ukie army they would just have to fall back and retreat with the militia. Befriending some of these guys might be a good investment as they will obviously report back to their leaders about their experience.
Because the Dutch are also non-native english speakers I think they are less aligned with the UK, USA axis and not affected by their propaganda as much. Australia on the other hand…
On Malaysia
Prime Minister Najibs Razaks grand mother 83 years old was on that MH 17 Airplane
On Germany & France
European Industry leaders, Especially French & german sphere of Influence will ignore sanctions and keep trading & doing business with Russia via third countries.
I notice a real change in the discussions here in central Europe and its becoming increasingly Pro Russian
The Netherlands
Not to be trusted. The Dutch government VVD/PVDA/D66/CDA political parties is a completely corrupt elitist parasitic beast that cares nothing about the average Dutch citizen.
The Netherlands ruling gov will betray its own people. 16 to 25% of the Dutch Gov income comes from American corporations tax evasion & money laundering in The Netherlands.
The Netherlands just bought 37 Joint Strike fighters from the US to replace the F16 at a whopping 70 million a piece.
Meanwhile the Dutch economy is in the Tank & record numbers are unemployed.
The Netherlands is a colony & a doormat for the US to the rest of Europe.
The Netherlands is a US owned & financed Corporation.
The Data on those black boxes will be falsified on US orders & the investigation compromised.
CDN says:
Regarding the air-to-air missile.
All of the reported firing positions for the Buk M1, both UAF and NAF, are located to the south of the track of MH17. A SAM fired from one of these positions would be expected to explode once the proximity fuse was approximately 50 feet from the 777. Damage should therefore be heaviest on the starboard side of the aircraft.
Images of the fuselage fragments show several which are from the port side of the aircraft. These show extensive damage. The best of these images is one of a section of the nose fuselage showing the bottom of the post side cockpit window frame.
These indications suggest a missile exploding on the post side of the aircraft. This is opposite to the expected side if a SAM brought MH17 down.
There are also report of MH17 turning to post and slowing down at the presumed moment of impact.
This turn is also supportive of a missile attack with the missile fired from the port quarter. AN explosion in this sector would cause heavy damage to the post side of the aircraft and is also likely to damage the engines on that side leading to less thrust. The undamaged starboard engines would continue to develop full power. The result of this thrust imbalance would be a slowing of the aircraft and a turn to port.
Posted upthread is another link to a report indicating that the plan was for an air to air missile to bring the plane down in a location that would facilitate UAF support reaching the troops trapped in the cauldron.
When the plane began turning to port it was clear this plan would fail and a Buk M1 missile was fired to finish the aircraft off.
Australia to the rescue?
“Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s plan to deploy armed police to the MH17 crash site risks increasing tension in the Ukrainian territory held by Russian-backed rebels, according to international political analysts.
Mr Abbott yesterday announced 190 Australian Federal Police, as well as an unknown number of Australian Defence Force soldiers, would help recover bodies and evidence from flight MH17, which crashed on July 17 killing 298 passengers and crew. Some of the force would be armed, Mr Abbott has said.
They must be nuts,” Joerg Forbrig, a senior program officer for central and eastern Europe at the Berlin bureau of the German Marshall Fund of the US think tank, said. “It’s a very dangerous proposal and will be seen as a provocation by the separatists and the Russians.”
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/australia-risks-inflaming-ukraine-conflict-by-sending-armed-police-to-mh17-site-analysts-20140726-zx3mo.html#ixzz38XEhLTog
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/australia-risks-inflaming-ukraine-conflict-by-sending-armed-police-to-mh17-site-analysts-20140726-zx3mo.html#ixzz38XEHzUOp
Now that the narrative is congealing in Kiev and West, I’d like to give everyone the western story of the incredible journey of a lone BUK on a lowboy trailer with a white semi-cab.
So this BUK was the one left behind in base A-1402 immediately south of Donetsk Airport when the 156th withdrew to their base north of Donetsk Airport along the M04 just north of Spartak, and was promised to be repaired by Kurginyan.
Or maybe it came over the border the night of July 13-14 in Lugansk when the AN-26 was shot down the next day at 6500m.
Or maybe it came over the border in Lugansk at 1am on July 17. And drove to Donetsk in the night. All three versions have been claimed by Kiev.
So then on the morning of July 17, in broad daylight, the BUK and its trailer set of from Donetsk on the H21 through Makiivka. The trailer is videoed east of Zhures near the big apartment complex a bit before lunch time, claimed around 11:40a.
Then the famous still picture is taken in Torez a bit after lunch. Perhaps they had stopped for a sandwich at the grocery store across the street.
Then the BUK is apparently offloaded somewhere in Snizhne and begins driving under its own power int he afternoon down the T0522 towards Saur-Mogila. This is where the videotape of it is taken.
The BUK is parked in the fields north of Saur-Mogila and then with its first shot in late afternoon locks on MH17, fires, and blows a civilian airliner out of the sky.
Or maybe not, because lets not forget the SBU released a tape saying the plane had been shot down by the Cossacks in Chornukhyne.
So realizing their terrible mistake, the rebels are ordered by Moscow to load the BUK back on the trailer and get it the hell out of Donbass. Of course they don’t go through Marinovka 10km to the border checkpoint just to the south. That would be too easy.
The BUK is hidden for about 5 hours until night falls, and is loaded onto the trailer. It is then rushed out of the Donbass at the Sjevernyi crossing along with three other BUK’s (perhaps it was pregnant and had little BUK’s while in Donbass) and an empty low boy trailer at 2am.
Or maybe not, because it is also claimed that the one BUK that actually shot down a plane now with three missiles on its lowboy in the very famous cardealership video was filmed heading SOUTH on Nechuya-Levytskoho Street in Luhanks at the half cloverleaf at 4:50a on July 18. Apparently the driver was very confused and when coming north from Snizhne through Krasny Luch on the H21 decided to take a sightseeing tour of Luhansk instead of running the T1310 straight for the border at Lutuhyne.
It must have been a really exciting 24 hours for this driver. Hopefully Kiev will also soon tell us where the pictures of the BUK acocmpanied by a tank and a KAMAZ or URAL full of soldiers were taken. Those shots seem to have been forgotten along with the military guard and the tarp for this piece of hardware when it might have been critical. But surely not for long with the intrepid social media crew at Kiev’s disposal.
CDN says:
Regarding the shale gas exploration headed by Hunter Biden.
The key firm supporting this investment is Shell Oil which is co-owned by the UK and the Netherlands. This partly serves to explain the antagonism of Cameron and the head of the Netherlands.
Of course once they find gas then they can announce this to Europe as an energy source which promotes independence from Russian supplies. Problem with this is 1) the resource has not been confirmed; 2) the required development will require years and will provide a near term panacea to either Ukraine’s or Europe’s energy needs. It will make for good PR though and help support a western move to advance NATO troops into Ukraine to protect both Ukraine and European interests.
Another Look at the AA Missile Theory – TTG
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/07/another-look-at-the-aa-missile-theory-ttg.html
“Most have discounted the possibility of an air to air missile taking down MH17 as the recent Russian MOD briefing suggested as a possible scenario. Up to now, I’ve also considered this as the least likely explanation. All eyes are on the BUK. But is this a case of sleight of hand, a misdirection? Perhaps.
Let’s take a closer look at the air to air missile theory. The most probable missile that would have been used is the R-60. The NATO designation is AA-8 Aphid. The R-60 weights only 44 kg (100 lbs) and can be launched from a wide range of high performance jets, including the SU-25. Even the HIND attack helicopter can use it. It’s warhead uses either a 3 or 3.5 kg high explosive charge surrounded by a tungsten expanding rod. Some versions have an additional 1.6 kg of depleted uranium for increased lethality. It uses a proximity fuze. That is an important point.
Some analysis of damage found on part of MH17 suggest a proximity explosion slightly below and ahead of the planes port wing. NBC News use this information to confirm that it was an SA-11 missile because an infrared guided air to air missile would have hit an engine. I always thought that would be the case since my experience was with the Redeye which tracks the aircraft’s hot exhaust and detonates on impact, usually up a jet engine’s ass end. The NBC News analysts obviously were working with the same limited and dated understanding as I had.
In reality the R-60 and the SA-11 detonate on the same proximity fuze principle. The difference is that the SA-11 has a 70 kg warhead. One commenter on the Saker blog suggested that a 70 kg warhead would have turned MH17 into confetti at 10,000 meters altitude. I doubt he’s an expert in missile damage. I know I’m not, but the SA-11 warhead has more explosive power than half a dozen 155mm HE shells. I’ve been very close to 5 inch naval gun fire. Believe me, the explosive power is mind altering. I have serious doubts an SA-11 blast would leave such big aircraft pieces lying in the fields outside Grabovo.
An R-60 did take down a commercial airliner in 1978. At an altitude of 9,000 meters, KAL902 had 4 meters of its port wingtip sheared off, an engine damaged and shrapnel punctures of the fuselage that killed two passengers by one R-60 hit. It was able to crash land on a frozen lake. Photos of the damage done can be viewed here [ http://www.istpravda.com.ua/articles/2012/05/4/81648/ ]. The aircraft was a Boeing 707.
My guess is that explosive ordnance experts can easily tell the difference between the damage produced by an SA-11 from that produced by an R-60. That would definitely eliminate at least one theory… and perhaps the West’s and Ukraine’s pet theory. Where would the information operation go then?
TTG”
Chances are the Su-25 fired 2 R60 missiles as well.
вот так
(I can personally confirm that I know for a fact that several European countries have their own monitoring systems which observe everything West of the Urals. The Saker)
If the black box data is tampered with but “several European countries” data and Russian data are identical, several European countries will have an awful lot of leverage over the Empire.
Ukraine – MH17 like Shoot Down Predicted a Month Ago plus Russian Defense Chief in English,
“This [Elena] video raises a very interesting question. Were commercial flights routed over Ukraine to provide Ukraine’s air force with cover in order to attack military and civilian targets?”
Saker, thanks for sharing this. I hope the speculation about the nukes and fiddling with the tapes is wrong.
A couple of game changers that could end this are lurking. The Resistance could end things, in effect, for Ukraine’s army as a viable fighting force. Or, someone could leak the satellite images or some other intel that showed that WH claims were a fraud. If this were indisputable, it would end the administration’s campaign and much more.(The leak could be via the sane faction of the ruling class or through a Snowden figure.)
@Vlad:If the black box data is tampered with but “several European countries” data and Russian data are identical, several European countries will have an awful lot of leverage over the Empire.
Wow, you just blew my mind – I never considered that angle. You are correct. The problem is that the countries in question will never dare do something about it. One has just paid a huge multi billion dollar fine to Uncle Sam, the other let itself be blackmailed by Uncle Sam over a decade ago and paid over a billion dollars just to appease him. Both countries are now totally under the US domination. I cannot be more specific, sorry.
Considering the kind of spineless politicians who run these countries, the only hope would be for a whistleblower or a leak, but you can bet that these recordings have already been seized and immediately destroyed. So the only hope is for an technical operator who listen to it all live or on a recording for the first time.
As far as I know, these are the only two countries in Europe with more or less independent electronic intelligence capabilities. All others are firmly integrated into the “NATO cooperative network” i.e. fully colonized.
Sorry for the bad news, thanks for the neat idea, and cheers!
The Saker
Well, everything looks okay to me. I always try to remember Russia’s impeccable legalistic posture.
Of course Russia agrees with the Dutch and Oz soldiers coming because it’s Kiev that rules the land, until Russia recognizes the breakaway republics – which it has so far chosen not to do.
Just as Russia agrees to the black boxes going to UK because there’s a Russian on the team. If dirty tricks happen, Russia will document the happening.
I always say, you don’t go down for the crime, you go down for the cover-up. In other words, by covering up you show your total identification with the crime in a deliberate, premeditated way that cannot be excused by any sense of recklessness (as many crimes could).
Of course, whether the republics will allow foreign soldiers on their territory remains to be seen.
I curb my impatience and remind myself that none of this is staged for my satisfaction or sense of timetable. Everything is playing out from the actions of the players involved, and not at all from mine.
Perhaps, as someone said, it really will be two years before Donbass goes to Kiev. Perhaps along the way there will be a nuclear false flag. Perhaps NATO forces will deploy in earnest to Novorossiya and be killed by the freedom fighters.
Perhaps, if so, then the US will invite its own people and the countries of Europe to become embroiled in another Vietnam, against another Vietcong that has history on its side, and that will win, destroying in the process what remains of EU-US significance and power in this world. While China rises.
Perhaps all this takes ten years.
Whom and what do i trust? I trust history, and the humanity of the poor and oppressed, who have been trying to catch a lucky break for however many millennia it’s been since the ancient matrilineal world gave way to the patriarchy, with its plunder and its killing.
In this I also, at this point in time, and for these momentary battles of our day, trust Mother Russia and her children, and Vladimir Putin and the deep state which supports him.
The greatest weapon being deployed in this theater, in my estimation – and I’m not sure I can explain why I think this – is Russia’s meticulous adherence to the law and the courtesy of discourse, and its rigorous documentation of all that passes, whether seemingly good or bad. I think these are the weapons required to hang evildoers, whether they appear in a battle zone (where you could simply shoot them) or hide in apparent safety in some resort country like Switzerland.
i can not see black box data get tampered with. There is no way Boeing, or any one else will allow it to happen. There going to be more crashes, big or small. Tamper with data serve none’s interest, even empire.
Nice job, Andrew.
The tour of Ukraine was perfect.
Reminds me of Kevin Costner in “JFK” mocking the famous single bullet theory of Arlen Spector that travelled everywhichway until it killed JFK.
Sarcasm, mockery and even parody, of course, carry truth.
Thanks for the laughter. It is black humor done with a deft touch.
For those who think the Hegemon and its cronies would not do more evil things concerning the plane shoot down investigation, I refer you to Nov.22, 1963.
Over 120 people died suspiciously in the following few years who had some connection to Dallas that day.
Just to explain the odds of that would take a million words.
However, they are already floating an ‘out’ for Kiev. A training accident launched the BUK. So far, I have not seen any cover story for the air-to air missile or missiles from their jet interceptor.
It won’t matter. They can cover up anything. They made a whole friggin plane disappear and no one including Malaysia cares about it any more.
We all know and understand that murder is the least of their crimes. Think about that for a moment.
These are moral freaks, degenerates, lower than pond scum, satanic beings. And they are facing an existential threat just as Russia is.
Don’t forget, Syria gas attack was their doing, not Assad’s.
Don’t forget, they created AQ and ISIS.
They probably created the AIDS virus.
They have killed many world leaders including JFK.
Never, ever underestimate an enemy.
And don’t concern yourself for their soul or their redemption. They are all going to Hell. God, I believe, does not forgive these crimes against Him.
More info about aircraft damage. The following shows photos of a B-17 hit by a German “88”:
IT WAS A FORTRESS COMING HOME
http://398th.org/History/Articles/Remembrances/Ostrom_FortressHome.html
The German 88mm AA gun fired a shell with an explosive content of about 3 lbs or less – less than half the amount in a R60 warhead. Here is another B-17 photo showing flak blowing a wing off the aircraft:
http://www.100thbg.com/mainmenus/349th/images01/1_15_1.jpg
The largest flak guns the Germans had in WW2 were 5″ (128 mm) weapons, whose shell, at most might have contained an explosive content roughly equal to a R60 warhead.
Late in WW2, the Japanese armed one of their fighter aircraft with a 57mm gun. One shot from this gun blew off an engine nacelle of an American B-29, sending that aircraft to the ground. The explosive content of a 57 mm HE shell is less than .5 lbs.
So it is quite clear a R60 A-A missile is more than capable of bringing down the Malaysian 777, and doing the amount of damage so far that’s been shown in photos of the wreckage.
The Buk missile has a warhead of about 150 lbs. That is literally 50+ times more than the 88 mm shell that wrecked that B-17 nose. That missile should of shredded a lightly built airliner flying at 500+ mph. Looking at the photo of the damaged cockpit section, one can see the concentration of shrapnel holes:
http://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/MH17-part-with-holes-identified.jpg
The large hole may be from impacting the ground. The amount of hole forward and the way they lessen towards the back half of the piece show a fairly close explosion in the front of and somewhat to the left of the airliner’s nose. A 150 lb warhead exploding that close, to make such a concentration of shrapnel holes would have literally disintegrated the whole nose section of the aircraft. This damage looks to be more consistent with a very much smaller warhead, such as carried by a R60.
вот так
(@1:38) … entirely justified concern about Australian involvement. ‘Police’ and their minders — read as “SAS” (retired &/or active). America’s little Gurkha’s basically. If the case then this will be various ‘polite men in green’ from both sides of the Russian border eye-2-eye.
[Btw, British and Australian personnel often exchange places … so it could also be a back door for UK boots on the ground.]
http://johnwinstonhowardandtheiraqwar.blogspot.com.au/
@anonymous above, who mentioned the crisisus website.
It is already available in English, so noo translation of its articles is necessary.
Its a bad website for my computer, itès very slow and difficult.
Here is the address:
http://en.crisisua.net/
Well, my personal opinion is that the Ukrainian military accidentally shot the plane down. They were to practice the scenario, but the missile wasn’t to be launched but was.
No need for Russian to sneaker massive launchers in and out. No plot that Putin was behind it all.
Just a screw-up by an over stretched and incoherent Ukrainian military.
Greetings @Saker et @Everyone,
While some time has passed since we have presented “coverage” regarding the situation in Ukraine, it has been for good reason as we have been busily infiltrating, coercing contaminating and subverting the “hearts and minds” of the Harper Regime and their merry band of NeoZioCon misfits, aka: the CPC (Conservative Party of Canada). This is for good reason that should be fairly self-evident.
That being subtly stated we would like to present a few of our “summary” articles that we previously posted on our site that seem even more relevant to the situation today for your consideration. Since we do not want to flood the comments with individual summary posts and to remain within the character limits, below you will find the “tweetable” titles with short urls followed by the full url with https, one for sharing and the other for visiting…
What is the #Harper Delegation to #Ukraine hiding from #cdnpoli? #CPC #GPC #NDP #LPC
https://dumpharper.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/what-is-the-harper-delegation-to-ukraine-hiding-from-cdnpoli/
——————–
#cdnpoli: Meet #Ukraine’s Svoboda Party #GPC #NDP #LPC #CPC
https://dumpharper.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/cdnpoli-meet-ukraines-svoboda-party-gpc-ndp-lpc-cpc/
——————–
Will #Harper’s #cdnpoli Lies re #Crimea #Ukraine Lead to War with #Russia?
https://dumpharper.wordpress.com/2014/03/16/will-harpers-cdnpoli-lies-re-crimea-ukraine-lead-to-war-with-russia/
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Frack, Like Crack, Is Whack: A Compendium of #cdnpoli Questions and Facts…
https://dumpharper.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/frack-like-crack-is-whack-a-compendium-of-cdnpoli-questions-and-facts/
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Feel free to use and abuse these summaries as you see fit and keep in mind, propaganda is as propaganda does.
DumpHarper!
It amazes me that no one is paying much heed to that Algerian 777 that disappeared from the radar and crashed in Mali. Most heads of state and big airline honchos know darned well at this point what really happened to MH 17 and at whose hands. The Mali “crash” was a warning to be ignored at one’s own peril: “Nice little airline/country you’ve got there; sure be a shame if anything happened to it…”
Opps, we forgot to link the articles and include the short urls to the titles, for those that may like to share and share alike, sorry ’bout dat…
What is the #Harper Delegation to #Ukraine hiding from #cdnpoli? #CPC #GPC #NDP #LPC http://wp.me/p2fsvZ-1IT
https://dumpharper.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/what-is-the-harper-delegation-to-ukraine-hiding-from-cdnpoli/
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#cdnpoli: Meet #Ukraine’s Svoboda Party #GPC #NDP #LPC #CPC http://wp.me/p2fsvZ-1Jm
https://dumpharper.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/cdnpoli-meet-ukraines-svoboda-party-gpc-ndp-lpc-cpc/
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Will #Harper’s #cdnpoli Lies re #Crimea #Ukraine Lead to War with #Russia? http://wp.me/p2fsvZ-1Lz
https://dumpharper.wordpress.com/2014/03/16/will-harpers-cdnpoli-lies-re-crimea-ukraine-lead-to-war-with-russia/
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Frack, Like Crack, Is Whack: A Compendium of #cdnpoli Questions and Facts… http://wp.me/p2fsvZ-1vN
https://dumpharper.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/frack-like-crack-is-whack-a-compendium-of-cdnpoli-questions-and-facts/
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DumpHarper!
Given that PM Tony Abbot is, in Australian political history, remarked on for the remarkable abjectness of his obedience, I glumly suppose that the purpose of his owners is to have the Oz/Dutch police/soldiers killed.
He and the Labor Opposition are so electorally odious that, last federal elections, 9 independent MP/senators squeaked in to the parliament. Several are really loose cannons.
Not sure if anyone has posted this yet. But it is an interesting theory.
“According to the colonel, at 16:19:45 (local time, and 5:19pm Moscow time), a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing with an air-to-air missile R-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled by the US with Ukrainian hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen there, securing the crash sites with the troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively to allow Kiev to lift the encirclement of its brigades (currently pinned down by rebels) in the southern pocket by the Russian border.”
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/
Rumor has it that while the ‘black boxes’ were given to the Malays who gave them to the Dutch who gave them to the Brits, the backup repeaters and sensor info gathering devices that report to the ‘black boxes’ were not asked for and not given. Ergo rumor has it that Novorossiya and probably Russia have copies of all data on the ‘black boxes’.
Anonymous 22:30 and 22:41:
Nice questions. Something I have been asked for a while.
Surkov and fans do not want to upset, the west, wants to play by west rules, worry about a few Billion, even after many billions lost already, and unmeasurable amount of life has lost, the still want to play by west rule. To me, It was really unthinkable, and RF is play into west hands. But what do I know. Surkov obvious has magic power, a political rising start, who will bring in the era of destruction IMHO, has enormous appear. So now, RF will end up fight a lot bigger, costlier war.
Of cause, true to Surkov philosophy, we still worry the last a few billion we my not earn before war starts. So maybe lets wait a little more. We do not want to damage those pipe line, do we? Or there are plenty empty space between Rostov and Moscow….
Should have added the next paragraph.
“When, however, the Boeing started to turn in the opposite direction and was still apparently manageable, the US-Ukrainian headquarters of the special operation panicked and ordered the Buk battery to destroy the plane in the air in order to pre-empt the possibility of the Boeing’s emergency landing. A Buk missile was fired and the plane was then finally destroyed.”
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/
@Michael McDonnell,
re:Shit happens
You have a point, mate.
@Nora
The Algerian plane that crashed in Mali was not a Boeing 777, it was a MD-83. The crash side has been found.
Auslander,
Thank you for the information. You said:
“probably Russia have copies of all data on the ‘black boxes”.
That makes me feel sooo much better as I do not trust the British government either.
@Michael McDonnell,
I should’ve add: Remember Steve Pratt and Peter Wallace?
@anonymous 3:18
Seriously, just because a plan is called a Flying Fortress doesn’t mean it is. For its era, it was big, but a B17 was 74 feet long and weighed around 12 tons.
A B777 is 209 feet long and weighs over 120 tons. 3 times longer and 10 times the weight.
Try using Wiki sometime.
The Ukies will smersh those 50 Aussie coppers if they ever make it to the crash site.
Hear that guys?
I suggest you retire forthwith.
Just wondering about the truce near the site of the MH17 wreckage: is there also an agreement about a border between the two parties? Today a Dutch newspaper mentions that there was fighting in Torez last night.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/31522/Vliegtuigcrash-in-Oekraine/article/detail/3699880/2014/07/25/Staakt-het-vuren-in-rampgebied-Niets-van-te-merken.dhtml
I stated right at the beginning that in no way was Putin of the rebels responsible for this, they had absolutely nothing to gain by doing this……. only one country, with one lying bastard in charge, had sanctions against Russia. Though what the hell something happening in a different continent should be any business of Obamas is beyond me. Does he not have enough problems in his own country to deal with? In the meantime the European countries did not have sanctions against Russia, but the immediately after this happens after they are now considering sanctions… I believe a weapon that could bring down a plane like this can be carried and fired by one person, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong… so in my opinion one has to know just where were the CIA in all of this, (well one only has to remember just how well the destruction of two multi-national buildings worked, didn´t half the world turn out to fight in Afghanistan, searching for a phantom) Obamas redlines, sanctions and downright chest puffing didn´t work so why not a plane carrying international travellers. One only has to watch the movie Zeitgeist to find out exactly what the CIA are capable of and have done in the past, Why was Sadam Hussien killed? Not because of any weapons of mass destruction, it was simply because he refused to be bought off and toe the line….. Watch the movie, form your own opinions…..
“A BUK missile ripping a 777 apart.” is total nonsense. A BUK missile is not designed to do that. It is not even designed to rip a fighter jet apart.
To achieve that, the missile would have to achieve a direct hit and that’s inefficient against fighter jets, as these aircraft are designed to try to detect and outmaneuver any
approaching missile. For this reason, the missile is not, repeat, is not even designed to achieve any direct hit in the first place. What it is, repeat, is designed for is a more efficient indirect, repeat, indirect hit by way of just getting close to the target aircraft and then detonating a fragmentation warhead. This detonation generates a cone of shrapnel flying towards the target. The shrapnel does not rip apart the aircraft but just causes sufficient damage and/or crew injury to let the crew loose control of the aircraft which then crashes. That’s all that is required in a war situation and, at the same time, it is the reason why we speak of mission kill, right?. What can happen is that the aircraft gets ripped apart, for instance, by secondary explosion inside its fuel tanks, decompression or rotating engine parts getting loose. Both an air-to-air and a BUK missile can initiate such secondary damage. This is more likely with the BUK missile as it contains a heavier warhead which generates more shrapnel. Once the aircraft falls from the sky, however damaged, it can also be subject to aerodynamic forces it was not designed for. These forces can cause (further) structural damage before the aircraft hits the ground. Such damage can cause fuel explosions in its own right and so on and so on. Once the aircraft hits the ground, all the remaining fuel will almost certainly burn and consume the wreckage or part of it. The gist of all of that is that even a straightforward missile hit can cause a complex crash scenario especially with an aircraft as large as a 777. This can and will often lead to confusing accounts and many opportunities to spread disinformation.
Got it? Saker and all the other people here, you need to stick to the facts and some common sense to retain credibility. Judging from the pictures posted on the internet, it does seem very likely that MH17 was hit by shrapnel. It has also been claimed that a BUK missile causes very different patterns of shrapnel damage as compared to an air-to-air missile, and that the patterns appearing on the aircraft parts are consistent with a BUK missile. Conclusion: The investigation will probably come to the result that it was a BUK missile that brought down MH17. This finding will be difficult or impossible to refute. That’s what this blog and all other friends of Russia need to be prepared for. Forcefully bringing any other theories to the fore only has the potential of damaging the cause. As of yesterday, RT carried a commentary arguing convincingly, in my opinion, that MH17, if shot down by the rebels, was legal as a form of collateral damage in a civil war situation provided that it was not intentional. As the shoot-down most probably was not intentional such a position is much more defensible than trying to formulate grand theories that most likely will fall apart like a house of cards. If, but only if, proof appears that the Ukies did it, then such a finding can still be exploited to the fullest.
“However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left.”
Probably you meant 90 degrees,or it would have headed back to Amsterdam.
XbNB
Can they fiddle with the black boxes? Well yes, as they did with TWA 800, that other 17 July shoot-down. But the FBI took over that investigation. And the Associated Retired Aviation Professionals have harried them ever since, notably identifying electronic editing of the Flight Data Recorder.
But this Vietnamese report suggests standard procedures are being followed:
Transport minister Liow Tiong Lai on late Tuesday said that it was a normal procedure to send the boxes, which record cockpit activity and flight data, to the nearest laboratory approved by the United Nations aviation agency, the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).
“The international investigation team, led by the Netherlands, has decided to pass the black boxes to the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch for forensic analysis,” he said.
The boxes will be flown to Farnborough, England, accompanied by Malaysian officials and other members of the investigation team, Liow added.
To alter the data, they would need to adapt it to one alternative narrative. But, as Anonymous’s 21st Century Wire report shows, the Ukie story eddies and swirls like a mountain stream, cascading in so many directions that it would be hard to pick the right lie.
The choices seem to be one bang or two, big or smaller, evasive action or blasted off course, and whether the decision to fly north to the war zone and then down below the clouds was Kiev-directed or spontaneous.
While corruption and malfeasance gambol merrily across nearly every institution of modern Britain, in this case there doesn’t seem to be much wiggle room.
I want to comment on your points:
point 1) Yes, it could be. The use of a SU-25 was done to appear “not plausible” such aircraft could be employed. The Su-25 flight path, from below upward with a steep trajectory ending just few Km in front of MH11, would render it not visible from the airliner cockpit. To fire the rocket, it was not needed to arrive at the same altitude, but could be done from below MH11 of several hundred meters, when the Su-25 reached the top of its parabola, still pointing upward, just before diving after firing. In this way also the rocket had a down-up trajectory, that in about 2 seconds bought him to impact the nose of the airliner, being the rocket the version with semi-active guidance that trails the radar emissions of the airliner radar (mounted in the nose). With such trajectory, also the rocket was not seen by the cockpit. So, the crew could not do any transmission, being immediately killed. This was calculated: to doom the airliner, killing the crew in one shot. For this reason, the voice recorder is not so relevant.
A Buk missile, fired by the ukrainians, was however also used (it may be even with dummy warhead), to accuse the Resistance of dowing.
point 2) of course, it is not sure that last second conversations could have be done in the cockpit, so the SBU seized the tapes at the ukrainian ATC. Anyway, radio transmissions of civil aircrafts are easly intercepted and monitored, so manipulation of it could be dubious. This does not exclude that last second screams or comments (not radio transmissions) could have be done in the cockpit by the pilots.
So manipulation would consist just to delete them, in the voice recorder, if any.
point 6) I think no: in this case Russia would have had full access to the debris and black boxes. Instead, it was exactly planned that the aircraft crashed in Resistance hold territory.
@Andrew re the wandering Buk:
Fantastic summary, mate! :-D Seems legit, I am 100% convinced in Kiev’s narrative!
Larchmonter445:
Nice job, Andrew. The tour of Ukraine was perfect
That was just the driving tour.
We should not forget to discuss the technical and tactical capabilities of the super BUK.
First of all, it was apparently fired remotely by the Cossacks at Chornukhyne. That is the only way we can make sense of Kiev claiming it was south of Snizhene but fired by the Cossacks under Bezler..
Second, it appears to have fired and struck its target at a range of 48km from south of Snizhne, while the Russian MOD gave a range of 35km and Wikipedia says 42km. Not to worry, this just shows you how superior Ukrainian defense industry is to Russia. Simply by being on noble Ukrainian land, BUK was upgraded with much higher tactical range.
Third super BUK also had deception abilities. Probably its missile was outfitted witha special holographic emulator. It was able to make eyewitnesses see a plane fly over Torez and be shot down and fall behind Progress Mine even though MH17 was 12 km north of Torez heading WNW-ESE and crashed behind a hill near Sjeverne that is 200 feet higher than Torez and Snizhne It was also able to emulate an aerial dogfight of a fighter plane with the MH17 that many other eyewitnesses saw.
Lastly, it was able to race cross country 23 km from Saur Mogila to south of Zaroshchenske village and turn into 3 BUK’s in order to be photographed by the Russian spy sattelite there to help with the wicked deceptions of the infernal Moskals.
Let me suggest a better logical structure:
Instead of 3 make it 2.
“3) Besides the Russians and the Americans, the Europeans also know what happened (I can personally confirm that I know for a fact that several European countries have their own monitoring systems which observe everything West of the Urals. The Saker)”
and make 2 3.
” 2) The reason why the Ukie SBU immediately seized the recording of the conversations between the Kiev ATC and MH17 is because the so-called “black boxes” ended up in Resistance hands. The reason why Holland agreed to have the British “decode” these recorders was because they were told so by the USA. The Brits will now let the NSA falsify the data and that falsification will be coordinated with the SBU in Kiev which will eventually release the recordings who will, surprise surprise, full “confirm” the “authenticity” of the NSA-doctored recordings from the UK. Formally, it will be the Dutch which will announce it all in order to better hide the US/UK role in all this.”
If the opponent wants to screw up – encourage them.
The Defence Ministry and others are smiling?
Espina said
вот так
26 July, 2014 00:52 i also concur with a lot of your posts tovarich. It’s critical imo that the black boxes are analysed under independent, Russian, Malaysian, Dutch and Aussies as well as the pinstripe pirates, all logged and accountable just like an investigation should be,but i won’t be holding my breath.
Tiocfaidh ar la (Irish)
Best Espina
Hey I just noticed this.
Count the number of missiles on the BUK TELAR behind infamous #312 in this picture.
http://rt.com/news/174868-ukraine-buk-falsification-continues/
Yes, Ukraine deployed it with just three missiles, and its the one on the middle right missing.
Now look at the infamous video in Luhansk/Krasnodon/Krasnoarmiisk/Wherever of the BUK TELAR on its incredible adventure
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0
Again, just three missiles, and the one on the middle right is missing.
No one is claiming Ukraine fired a BUK missile near Soledar when the first picture was taken. So apparently sometimes, these units are not deployed with a full complement of missiles.
There is a trite saying “An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” So just because a BUK TELAR only has three missiles on it, this is only evidence that at the time the photo/video was taken, the unit only had three missiles. It does not tell you if it once had a fourth, or if one missile was fired.
Anon:
The Defence Ministry and others are smiling?
Its hard to believe that Rostov ATC/Russian Military SIGINT was not recording conversation of Dnipr ATC with MH17.
Yet the Russians have not yet released the conversation, although there were statements in the press that they had handed over their ATC records to the EU.
Perhaps they handed over their recordings preemptively to prevent Kiev/NATO falsification of data.
gallier2,
Are you sure about that. I Googled it and came up with Boeing 777. Probably doesn’t matter though, and actually could be even a more frightening threat since it would certainly imply all planes are vulnerable.
As I have previously written, in addition to U.S./NATO backed military operations by the Ukrainian regime in E Ukraimne, this bloc will almost certainly target Crimea (and Transnistria) next. But far more significant preparations are being made (evident by expanding operations and the concurrent mobilisation of military forces/assets under claims of defence):
1. Speaking from the Aspen Security Forum, a defense industry conference in Colorado, [Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin] Dempsey said Pentagon planners are now looking at military options “we haven’t had to look at for 20 years” and warned that Putin—whom he characterized as escalating the crisis inside Ukraine—“may actually light a fire” he cannot control. And not just in Ukraine or eastern Europe, Dempsey said, but globally. (Gen. Dempsey: We’re Pulling Out Our Cold War Military Plans over Ukraine, by Jon Queally, July 25, 2014)
2. There are speculations/comments on various blogs/reports regarding the implications of the Dutch and Australian deployments to Ukraine. Some of these speculations are not only plausible but in my opinion probable. These speculations include plans for mission creep, the engineering of an escalation and such deployments to eventually augment current U.S./NATO backed operations. Australia is currently a key antagonist and its adversarial position towards Russia is well established.
3. If NATO is to engage in joint military exercises with the Ukrainian regime in September, it is reasonable to expect more significant NATO participation in the Ukrainian conflict. September may very well turn out to be a grave month [1].
Conclusion: If one or more parties are committed to war, regardless of efforts to prevent this outcome, war will occur. Russian analysts are no doubt aware of this reality. Indeed, the proxy war currently being waged shows that what is occurring is more than a cold war but not yet a direct hot war. Hostile operations are already active and expanding, albeit in preliminary stages (covert operations, mobilisation of military forces/assets/missile architecture under claims of ‘defence’, information warfare/war propaganda, economic warfare/sanctions/economic sabotage operations, proxy war operations, ongoing destabilisation operations/partition regime change operations within Russia, etc.).
The situation will become increasingly untenable until eventually, a response will be necessary. I respectfully advise Russian strategists that when Russia is forced to respond, that it respond decisively.