According to the Russia media, about 1000 Paratroopers took part in a protest demonstration in Moscow. Two well-know figures of the political opposition, Col (Ret.) Viktor Alksnis (a Latvian supporter of the old Soviet Union) and Col (Ret.) Vladimir Kvachkov (former GRU Brigade commander) took the podium for a speech.
One factor which probably greatly contributed to “deflate” this event was the letter sent by General Shamanov from his hospital bed to the Extraordinary Congress of Paratroopers which took place on Saturday in which he appealed to his fellow desantniki not to oppose the Minister of Defense Serdiukov or his reforms.
Either some kind of behind-the-scenes deal was reached, or the Kremlin’s pressure has been effective enough to prevent this wave of protest from going any further. Probably a 20% – 80 % combination of both, I would guess.
With 200,000 officers about to lose their jobs, this animosity is not surprising. But Russia’s military needs to reform …. a fact that almost everyone (President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin included) understands….
@anonymous: Russia’s military needs to reform
Absolutely. And quite a few, if not most, reforms do make sense. The fact that Russia switched to 4 strategic commands is an excellent idea. Going to a brigade system for the Ground Forces and switching the Air Force Regiments to a “base” system is fine too. But I am afraid that the Kremlin is using these reforms to weaken parts of the armed forces which it considers too independent: the GRU and the VDV. I am not oppose to reform of these two either, I just don’t think that, say, resubordinating the Ryazan school to the Combined Arms Academy is a good idea, nor o I see any reason to move the HQ of the VDV out of Moscow. As for turning the GRU into simply a Directorate of the General Staff, this is a crazy concept, IMNSHO. Hopefully, all this protesting will serve to dampen some of this excess reformatory zeal.
Another thing which is stupid, BTW, is just aping the USA in everything it does. The Russians are talking about creating a Special Operations Command just like the USA’s, but that ignores a totally different history and tradition. What is also ignores is that, frankly, Russians special operations have a phenomenally successful history, whereas the US Special Ops have a very mediocre history at best, and a history of embarrassing failures at worst. Just compare the Soviet operation to take over Amin’s palace in Kabul with the disgraceful tragy-comedy of the US invasion of Grenada when the special ops screwed up so bad that the 82 had to be sent in to save their sorry asses!
If the Russians want to ape somebody in the West, they could take inspiration from the far superior Brits or Germans.
My 2cts
“Just compare the Soviet operation to take over Amin’s palace in Kabul with the disgraceful tragy-comedy of the US invasion of Grenada when the special ops screwed up so bad that the 82 had to be sent in to save their sorry asses!’
What happened in Grenada? I herd that construction workers managed to hold off against US forces for a while. But don’t know much more than that.
@Lysander:yes, the super-dooper Delta Force was held off by the Cuban Corps of Engineers only armed with AKs, LOL!
Seriously, there was lots of absolutely amazing examples of gross incompetence and even cowardice (helicopter pilots for ex). When outraged US operators wanted to have the cowards court-martialled, they were “counseled” against it. At the end, there were more medals given out for this pathetic operation than the total number of participants.
I can’t even begin to answer your question here, there are SO MANY things to say about that that you could literally write a book about it. Actually, somebody might have. Let me make a quick search on this and get back to you.
Cheers!
The Saker
@Lysander: first, try to get this book:
“Military Incompetence: Why the American Military Doesn’t Win”
http://www.amazon.com/Military-Incompetence-American-Doesnt-Century/dp/0374521379
@lysander: also, I just found this:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_v18/ai_4118414/
Part 1 of 2
Interesting article you cite on the performance of the US military in Grenada. I don’t usually comment on military matters, but as I served in the 82nd during this time I thought I’d add my $.02. I have to say that the Washington Monthly article and your commentary on the US military is spot on in every detail, except that the original plan of attack involved the Rangers parachuting in to take the runway so the 82nd could then airland its troops in, with my battalion, the 2/325 AIF, being the first one in. I did not participate in the invasion as I was on emergency leave when it happened, but I heard all the stories afterwards and they corrobarate much of what was in that article.
It was amazing the number of casualties my unit experienced considering how badly outnumbered and outgunned the Cubans were. A captain and platoon sergeant from my battalion were both killed when they foolishly walked solo up a hill to try and locate the enemy…and succeeded in doing so. Our brigade HQ was hit by an A-10 strike that was called in by a lieutenant to take out a sniper resulting in one dead and and at least 11 injured—proving the old adage that there is nothing more dangerous than a 2nd Lt with a compass and a map. Despite their small number the Cubans seemed to be everywhere, and our Recon platoon alone was ambushed twice albeit with no casualties.
My jeep took a bullet during one of these ambushes, and given the huge numbers of medals they handed out afterwards, I’m surprised I didn’t get a Purple Heart or Bronze Star for my jeep’s ordeal, even though I wasn’t there. As it was, they gave Bronze Stars to all the company kiss-asses who showed up for the party, and some other medal for everyone else.
I heard a lot of stories of objectionable behavior and outright war crimes just from my company alone. In one case, a Cuban prisoner was stripped bare-chested and tied face down to the hood of a jeep and driven around like a hunter’s trophy. The hood of a jeep can get pretty hot even in winter let alone in the hot Caribbean sun. I heard reports of soldiers shooting cattle and stealing cars for sport, as well as blowing up houses with LAW rockets and killing fish with grenades—though some of these attacks were by request of locals hoping for compensation.
In my opinion, the 82nd at that time was just a dog and pony show where incompetent and disinterested careerist officers stopped to get their tickets punched with the necessary Airborne experience needed for future promotions to field grade officer positions. We spent most of our time cleaning the barracks and picking up cigarette butts rather than training for war, and most of our officers and NCOs were utterly clueless and incompetent. That there were always cigarette butts to pick up showed the general attitude of officers and NCOs to the men, as we never dropped our own butts knowng someone else would have to pick them up.
Typical of this breed was one of my captains who was a West Point grad and remarkable ass-kisser even by 82nd Airborne standards (or “cheesedog” as we called them, from the practice of eating the “fromunder cheese” from under their superior’s foreskins). This clown would have us run by the commanding general’s headquarters during our morning PT and demand we let the general know we were there by shouting with bogus enthusiasm. We finally broke him of the habit by laughing uproariously instead.
The captain was with the unit for 6 months when he requested a display of our weapons for inspection. I was a TOW anti-tank gunner in Combat Support Company which included the TOWs, 4.2 inch mortars and the Recon platoon. We lined up our TOWs “dress right dress” or in a neat row and this putz walks over to my TOW and asks his XO, “is this a TOW?”
Of course, let me not spare our Air Force friends, who routinely dropped us in the trees on jumps, or Marine Corps Anglico which called in a barrage of 155mm artillery fire during a training exercise just 300 yards from their position on the very edge of a fire zone just as we were driving by in our jeeps, How none of us were killed or injured is a mystery as the explosions were close enough and loud enough to cause me ear pain for a few weeks afterwards.
Based on my experience in an allegedly “elite” unit I’d have to say the US military is an overrated farce. Thank God we didn’t have to say “Hooah” back in those days as I think I’d have gone postal if they forced me to mouth such a bloody moronic, mealy-mouthed affirmative. As it was our required “All the Way, Sir!” was bad enough.
Thanks, Saker. That was a great article by Richard Gabriel. Do you think the US military has improved much since 1983?
Well, a rally of 1,000 desantniki is not a small number. Most opposition rallies don’t gather so much participants. I don’t know how it went, but for the number of people involved I don’t think it was deflated.
Why is Russian sovereignty being disgraced by bringing in Israeli troops to protect the Kremlin gang??
@Sean: I don’t usually comment on military matters
WHY?! You would be uniquely qualified to comment on military matter because you have personal knowledge and, judging by your post, a very honest and straightforward way of looking at these topics. I sincerely invite you to comment on military matters as often as you can!
Coming back to the 1983 invasion of Grenada, it would be a good idea to compare it with the 1979 taking of the Tadzh-Bek Palace by 520 lightely armed Soviet officers and soldiers aganst a defending force of 2500 heavily armed defenders. You can read all about this operation in this article:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2002/MOUTGrau.htm
And just in case anybody would suspect the author of this article of being some kind of commie-groupie, here is a short bio:
LESTER W. GRAU, a Vietnam War veteran and retired lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army, is an analyst for the Foreign Military Studies Office at the Army’s Combined Arms Center at Fort Leavenworth. He is also the editor and translator of The Bear Went Over the Mountain: Soviet Combat Tactics in Afghanistan and The Other Side of the Mountain: Mujahideen Tactics in the Soviet-Afghan War.
Sean – thanks a lot for your personal testimony, which is, as always, far more credible than a cold scholarly article.
Kind regards and thanks,
The Saker
This is where the brilliant idea of resetting relations with the West and cancelling the contract of S-300 to Iran leads to:
http://www.militaryparitet.com/teletype/data/ic_teletype/8907/
Israel is delivering Merkava-4 tanks to Georgia, under US approval. I guess they are using the excuse of Russian P-800 anti-ship missiles delivery to Syria.
@Carlo: the Merkava-4?!?! Wow, I wonder if this is a rumor or a true fact. I also wonder how much these tanks will cost and how Georgia intends to pay for them.
Until I get confirmation of this one, I am going to be rather skeptical. I mean, really: even the Israelis cannot be THAT stupid. Surely they do realize that at this little game, Russia can arm Hezbollah with far more effective weapons than Merkavas in Georgia?
This has got to be a rumor – this would too crazy, even for Bibi and his lunatics….
Military Paritet is a reliable page, but they got this information from this page:
http://ekonbez.ru/
I’ve never heard about it, nor know if it’s reliable. So yes, perhaps it is a rumour.
Anyway, by the time of South Ossetian war, I’ve read that Georgia had interest in buying this tank.
Presumably the Russian Jewish community, including some oligarchs, is a powerful lobby for Israel’s interests. I can’t see Russia supplying Hizbollah with first rate kit. If they did the Empire would go absolutely ape.
@Robert:I can’t see Russia supplying Hizbollah with first rate kit. If they did the Empire would go absolutely ape.
Well, Hezbollah did get their hands of some close to top of the line anti-tank missiles. What Russia could throw in next would be some good man-portable anti-air systems (like the 9K338 Igla-S) which are already out there in many countries, though I have always suspected Hezbollah of already having some of them hidden. Such weapons could, if needed, be sent to “Syria” or even the “Lebanese Army”; at least that would be what the end user documents would say.
Another thing which Hezbollah as not used so far and which Russia could provide it with are 12,7mm (.50 cal) sniper weapons such as the KSVK or a heavy machine gun like the Kord. Finally, advanced mines and man portable fuel-air explosives rockets are also an option which could be rather quietly passed on to Hezbollah if Russia wanted to.
The real problem is – does anybody in the Kremlin still care and have some courage left?
Surely the Kremlin only cares about Russia’s interests. It has no commitment to the Palestinian cause and will not arm Hizb unless there’s something in it for them.
@VINEYARDSAKER
What do you make of the fact that Iran has actually been having growing trade and other ties with Georgia even willing to supply them with oil when gas pipeline to Georgia from Russia was blown up.
“Speaking to Georgian journalists on May 21, Iranian Ambassador Majid Saber recalled Irans willingness to supply gas to Georgia after two Russian pipelines exploded in 2006. No US help was there when you needed it most, Ambassador Saber said, the Civil.ge news website reported. Real friendship is demonstrated in hard times.”
http://www.voltairenet.org/article165570.html
@Robert: sadly, I think that you are absolutely correct.
What happened to the comment I posted about Georgian and Iranian growing diplomatic and economic assistance since 2006?
There was great turnout in the nationalist marches in Russia just a couple of weeks ago:
A march of 15,000 highly organized, young Russian nationalists in Moscow has sent shockwaves across Europe. The march was over double the size of last year’s march. Marchers chanted pro-Russian and pro-Christian slogans and called for a halt to immigration. The event was staged by multiple groups, the largest being the DPNI, or “Movement against Illegal Immigration.” The DPNI has thousands of members all over Russia. It is active in politics, and enjoys the support of many Russian members of parliament. It also conducts self-defense training and organizes neighborhood watches in areas with high immigrant crime. It’s young membership is believed to draw heavily from Nashi, a state sponsored patriotic youth movement in Russia.
The March occurred on Russian Unity Day, Nov 7th, a new holiday introduced in 2006 to replace a former Soviet holiday that commemorated the Bolshevik Revolution. Russian Unity Day commemorates the Russian victory over a Polish controlled occupation in 1612. Russian military colleges also commemorated Russian veterans of WWII on the same day.
The march ended with short speeches and musical performances.
Русский Марш 2010 / Russian March 2010
Русский Марш 2010. Москва. Люблино-Марьино
@jack:What happened to the comment I posted about Georgian and Iranian growing diplomatic and economic assistance since 2006?
Dunno. Can you tell me under which article you posted it?
Or can you post it again?
One thing I can assure you of: I do not censor posts. I only censor commercial spam selling any kind of shit. That’s it.
HTH
@Nationalist:pro-Christian slogans and called for a halt to immigration.
Considering that Christ Himself was an immigrant to Egypt, this just goes to show how confused these people are about both Christianity and the topic of immigration…
Saker, the storming of the palace in Kabul to murder Amin was a clusterf**k of epic proportions, FYI.
@American Goy:the storming of the palace in Kabul to murder Amin was a clusterf**k of epic proportions, FYI.
Why?
@VINEYARDSAKER:
Can’t remember the comment I wrote before but here is a link to the article.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article165570.html
@jack: thanks, and sorry for any issues with blogspot’s #^$%@%!!!## bugs or my equally #^$%@%!!!## senile brain!
Cheers!
@Lysander:Thanks, Saker. That was a great article by Richard Gabriel. Do you think the US military has improved much since 1983?
Yes, I do. Grenada and the monumental failure of the US hostage rescuse in Iran did trigger an interal realization that much needed to be reformed. I still do not hold the US military in high estime, but it is definintely not the clueless and patethic force it used to be 30 years ago.
@Jack:What do you make of the fact that Iran has actually been having growing trade and other ties with Georgia even willing to supply them with oil when gas pipeline to Georgia from Russia was blown up.
I don’t like it one bit, but would put the blame on Russia which backstabbed Iran both in the Security Council and subsequently with the S-300 debacle.
“I don’t like it one bit, but would put the blame on Russia which backstabbed Iran both in the Security Council and subsequently with the S-300 debacle.”
True. Though Iran never said it would recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia, they defended Russia’s action in the 2008 war:
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8711191718
Russia screwed up a good relationship for the very dubious purpose of “resetting relations”.
@VINEYARDSAKER:
“I don’t like it one bit, but would put the blame on Russia which backstabbed Iran both in the Security Council and subsequently with the S-300 debacle.”
But they offered to assist oil transport assistance to Georgia back in 2006 and according to the declassified 98 Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) Intelligence Information Report (IIR) in the past imported Iranian terrorist instructors into the Caucasus in 97.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/cases/102/dia.pdf
@jack – I don’t buy the idea of Iranian officials working with the Wahabis. Iranian individuals, sure. But as a policy – no way.
@VINEYARDSAKER:
That’s what US intelligence said in their report which accurately lists other groups that support Chechen terrorism (Bosnian Muslims, KLA, Saudi dissidents, etc) and other details themselves are accurate as confirmed since in US court cases and newspaper reports.
“I don’t buy the idea of Iranian officials working with the Wahabis”
Why they worked together in Afghanistan against the Soviets and in the Balkans during the 90’s which is a terrorist base and transit hub for terrorists travelling to Chechnya.
@jack:That’s what US intelligence said in their report which accurately lists other groups that support Chechen terrorism (Bosnian Muslims, KLA, Saudi dissidents, etc) and other details themselves are accurate as confirmed since in US court cases and newspaper reports.
I have seen to many “secret” reports in my life not to be aware of all the bullshit they so often contain. Then, they also often reflect the *career-promoting* slogans of their authors, or the naive belief in the official propaganda. We have just seen that with the recent Wikileaks about Afghanistan which claim that the Iranians help the Taliban, which is, of course, utter garbage as anybody who knows anything about the relations between these two groups will tell you.
Then, look who you quote: US intelligence, US media and US courts. Three true bastions of Zionist propaganda. The same sources who blamed Hezbollah and/or Iran for the attacks on Jewish centers in Buenos-Aires. Bottom line, this entire idea of Wahabis working with Shia is utter and total bullshit, a crude propaganda invention to create this illusion of an “Islamic Coalition” against the West. Absolute hogwash. At the very most, you will see instances of Shia and Wahabis acting in the same geographical area (Bosnia) and I could imagine that some hard core realpolitik type on both sides trying to annoy or degrade a common enemy perceived as far more immediate or threatening. But actually working together towards a shared objective? Hell no!
You don’t actually think the Iranians are dumb enough to what the Wahabi crazies in power in Chechnia or creating some kind of murderous Wahabi “Islamic Emirate” in the Caucasus?! The Iranians are not Americans, they are not dumb enough to do what the Yanks did when the brought down the Taliban and Saddam only to make Iran the number one regional power. Do you really think that anybody in Tehran wants Hattab, Zakaev, Dudaev, Maskhadov, Iadarbiev, Baraev or any other crazed Chechen nutcase or thug turning himself into an “Emir” and spreading Wahabism in the Caucasus?
I suggest you stop feeding at the Western anti-Islamic propaganda outlets and look into the reality of the Islamic world.
@VINEYARDSAKER:
This is not a Wikileaks document that the mass public is supposed to know so the idea that it serves a propaganda purpose is pretty stupid given the fact it had taken more than 4 years since Judicial Watch’s initial Freedom of Information Act request in January 2000 to its eventual release in October 2004 and the official mass media view as well as western governments is that there is little or no foreign terrorist presence in Chechnya.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/story/2004/nov/defense-intelligence-report-details-al-qaedas-plans-russia-chechnya-and-wmd
Then, look who you quote: US intelligence, US media and US courts. Three true bastions of Zionist propaganda.
US and foreign intelligence that is not disclose in mass circulation, US and foreign media that only mention Chechen connections in passing to terrorist groups involved in terrorist attacks against the west and US court case pressured by the Russian government that were not charged with terrorism against the Russian Federation but links to terrorism charges against the US like Babar Ahmad who ran Azzam publications and affiliated websites for fund raising and support to Chechen terrorists conspiracy to attack US naval fleet stationed in the Gulf and tax evasion like the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation. It is only in the text of the indictment and seized exhibit evidence do we get to read there connection to Chechen terrorism
As for why in the past Iran would support terrorism in the Caucasus and align themselves with Saudi Arabia I will comment on that latter.