It is pretty clear what took place yesterday night. Even if you don’t read Russian, the following chart released by the Russian Ministry of Defense says it all:
Basically, 4 Israeli aircraft were sent on a bombing mission against targets near the Russian facilities in Khmeimim and Tartus (which, by itself, is both stupid and irresponsible). The Israelis *deliberately* did not warn the Russians until less than a minute before the attack took place, thus the Russians did not have the time to tell the crew of the Il-20 electronic warfare aircraft, which was on approach for a landing, to take evasive action. When the Syrian S-200 fired their missiles to intercept the incoming missiles, the Israelis F-16 used the Il-20, which has a much bigger radar cross section, to hide themselves resulting in the loss of 15 lives and one aircraft.
Typical Israeli “cleverness”.
The Russian MoD placed the full blame on the Israelis and declared that this attack was “dastardly”, the Israeli actions as “hostile” and said that Russia “reserves the right” to respond with “adequate counter-actions”.
This is one of these rare opportunities when there is, I believe, a viable and logical option to respond: tell the Israelis that from now on any of their aircraft approaching anywhere near the Russian forces will be shot down.
Will the Russians do that?
I doubt it. Why? Because of the very powerful pro-Zionist 5th column in Russia.
I am pretty sure that the Russian military would love to take such an measure but, unfortunately, they are limited in their actions by the 5th columnists in the Russian government.
We shall see. If Russia does nothing, it will be interesting to see how those who deny the existence of a pro-Zionist 5th column in Russia will explain this.
The Saker
PS: the only positive effect from this tragedy is that this will go a long way to trash the image of Israel in the Russian public opinion (which is constantly subjected to pro-Zionist propaganda in much of the Russian media).
UPDATE1: there we go: Putin is already “downgrading” the gravity of what happened. He has just declared that “the Israeli jet didn’t down our aircraft” and spoke of “tragic circumstances“. True, he did add that the Russians will take measures that “everyone will notice” but I am personally dubious about these “steps”. I hope that I am wrong. We will find out soon.
UPDATE2: I am watching the Russian media and I have to report that Zionist propagandists (Russian liberals and Jewish commentators) look absolutely *terrible*: they are desperately trying to blame everybody (the Syrians, Hezbollah, and even the Russians) except for Israel. This will not sit well with the Russian public.
I believe Putins lack of action against repeated Israili attacks and violations of syrian airpace puts Russian troops in Danger. How many more Russian military personnel have to die for Russia.to finally say enough is enough and close Syrian airspace or effectively use these super duper air defenses they claim to have? Why are Nato jets and Israili fighters even allowed into Syrian airspace? I am beyond baffled.
I agree with you. It is truly an astounding stand down to the US-Israeli crime syndicate after the loss of the specialized Il-20 and its crew.
The buck stops at the boss’ feet. Putin or Shoigu ought to resign if they do not have the stomach to strike back or just go the way of genuflexing Yeltsin and capitulate. Russia’s error was /is to allow Israel and FUKUS a free hand in the affairs of Syria.
Saker ,allow me to suggest another reason why Russia will not escalate situation any further but rather deescalate but only seemingly so. It is because they do not need to. Defeat of terrorists in Idlib is imminent. At the moment, decisions of how it is to be done are being devised. That victory in Idlib will avenge those who were killed in Il-20.
In Teheran there was a meeting of Astana group minus Syria and terrorists. Obviously absent from the meeting were the Syrians. What kind of message that sends? Maybe that they have more important things to attend to? Here is a video of an interesting exchange regarding the much lauded humanitarian aspect in the West and the absentees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXyrxEilc88
Just yesterday we saw new developments regarding Idlib and humanitarian aspect.
Putin & Erdogan agree Idlib buffer zone to avert new Syria crisis
https://www.rt.com/news/438652-putin-erdogan-syria-idlib-demilitarized/
Erdogan got what he asked for. Responsibility of establishing a humanitarian effort in Idlib and deconfliction zones. Date set is october 10th. I doubt it will hold that long. Either it will hold until first terrorist offensive or until Syria is done preparing. Perhaps a rotation of troops. Newly trained to for less risky areas while at the same time positioning experienced troops at idlib. That time will be well spent on preparation for the offensive.
What is interesting here is that UK representative in UNSC praised Turkey’s efforts at alleviating humanitarian catastrophe. Whatever happens now in Idlib will be blamed at Erdogan by both east and the west. His only hope is to play straight. But will he? I think not, but with what kind of a rabbit will he now appear in front of the public would be interesting to see if we could ignore the suffering his adventurism brought. But his time is running out fast. Somehow i get the impression that Erdogan honestly expects to be payed for his adventurism in Syria by Iran,Russia and Syria on top of that.
It is a bitter pill to swallow, watching Russia cooperate with Turkey represented by Erdogan after everything he did but the alternative is war with Turkey,possibly NATO and nuclear annihilation of life on planet. It was true when Turkey shot down Russian plane it is true still.
Regarding a downgrade of the incident i would like to draw your attention to a word “chain” in his statement. That chain can be traced back to its originator. Salvage vessel is dispatched. One Russia did not had at a time of Kursk. What secrets will black box yield? Not an immediate response but one at a later time, at your own convenience seem to be the hallmark of Russian responses to provocations like these. As it should be when you have bussines with deranged entities.
And for update #2 Plan backfiring in such early stages? Target is Russia,Turkey and Syria cooperation during the Idlib liberation with a usual sprinkling of seeds where fertile grounds can be found to be exploited later if anything useful is deemed to have sprouted.
VVP, Judo master? When the big man comes at the small man with all his might it’s the wise small man who steps aside. Many thanks, Saker, for these updates!
Okay everyone has given their opinion, so here is mine.
The Israeli F-16’s maneuvered behind the Ilyushin-20 spy plane not for the reason we were told by: Russian Military Defense, the Pentagon, the various press outlets and President Putin himself, except he responded with a deceptive phrase. The president said, “… the Israeli jet didn’t down our aircraft.”
Putin didn’t parrot the same news headlines that Syria shot down the plane. He told us that Israel shot the plane down by presenting “the best lie is the truth told unconvincingly.” The IL-20 transmits electronic data capture via real-time down-link to ground stations located in the Khmeimim Air Base. If Israel fired air-to-air missiles into the airplane, Russian analysts would have that information.
The Syrian military has not admitted to the S-200 story. Therefore I believe the Israeli F-16 pilots shot air-to-air missiles into the reconnaissance aircraft from behind. We will know the truth when the Russian salvage ship Seliger vessel of Project 11982 recovers all the parts of the aircraft including highly confidential ELINT technology. Confirmation by forensic examination of the wreckage will tell us whether it was the S-200 missile or in fact F-16 air-to-air missiles that hit the aircraft, as I suspect.
Interesting angle. Hadn’t thought of that one. Thank you.
Kent
It is more than possible that given the IL-20 was on a landing approach that all the electronics are shut down as part of the landing checklist. The Israelis may, of course, have considered this in their plan.
I am sick of reading all this nonsense! That is how I term it..nonsense.
how can one small group of people..not more than 25 million all told in the world control every nation, do as they please in the world and get away with it?
How many Russian Ashkenazi are there. how many Russian traitors buttress that group of Ashkenazi. and where are the Russian nationalist to remove Putin, arrest all the Russian traitors, expropriate Russian Ashkenazi media and give the Ashkenazi the option remain in Russia and function as directed, or leave and go to Israel, the USA wherever you want to and can get in
why would the Russian people tolerate such a situation..are they compromised with Ashkenazi nonsense like the people of the west..cant see the forest for the Ashkenazi?
it seems to me time for the Russian nationalist to stand up and act for their country..or they will lose it all
so what is to become of Russia then given this truly amazing political balancing act in Russian politics that holds the future of 145-150 million Russians in abeyance?
this can go on only because of great corruption at the heart of the Russian nation of which Putin himself is involved. there are Russians themselves involved treasonous to their own country that makes it possible for this to go on. they are treasonous which is a crime and they can be arrested and tried for their crimes. but that is not happening
Short and straight to the point.
I believe this is the first time that statement from Russian Army and Putin are sort of contradicting each other. Much harsher comments from Shoigu and Russian Generals compared to rather pathetic comments from Putin.
Something is definitely not right there. I have no doubt that Shoigu and generals are fuming about all this, as it just looks like another provocative action by zionists from Tel Aviv that is nothing but another slap in Russia’s face that will go unpunished and further embarass Russia.
PCR was right again with his recent article about Russia just turning its cheeks to be punched time after time by more and more brazen lunatics from Tel Aviv and Washington. Time to stop it was yesterday.
Shoigu, is angry like hell & aint gonna put up with this B.S anymore,
not from anyone not even from hell or heaven,he is heavy as they come. As the shoguns of the east did he ‘rides in pride’ with his soldiers in the front line ,who put their lives on the lines for anything he says’,he lost something precious here make no mistake.He won’t commit hara kiri, for sure but like the saying goes,”hold your friends close and your enemies closer”,this time the enemy is well known by him,recently he was there in T.A,with the whole brass shaking hands patting each other on the back with the ‘nuts’,.SOMETHING broke in him cause his narrative was the first shot before anyone else can wink,”the whole blame is on the nuts,my friends’…so the free pass is over nuts,from now on if ya wanna keep your friends ya have to earn yr keeps…is what the Rshogun is hinting…we live in interesting times,when two irresistible forces meet the end is anybody’s guess ,but seriously can nutyanhoo ride with Rshogun,..nuts!…
now he is busy tying up loose ends and holding back tears from horrified widows, mothers,sons & daughters ,”what have you done with my husband,son,father can i bury him at least please”…..than it is rshogun time …buckle up in your telly seats and top up on popcorn .this aint putin show to put it mildly,he gonna do a pentagon on the russian deep state.
I wouldn’t be surprised if people in Russia are discussing military coup options or how to “drain their swamp”.
They are not in contradiction.
It is more like good cop, bad cop.
I know Mr. Putin thinks he is trying to prevent WWIII and that’s commendable, but how many times will Russia get bitch slapped before they figure out you cannot appease bullies? The Israelis just caused 15 Russians to die and their families are gonna want to know why nothing was done at the time and most likely nothing much, other than talk, will be done in the future to prevent a repeat.
Israel will never stop attacking until forced to.
To the families,,, my condolences.
This is obviously a well planned and coordinated provocation to provide France and NATO an excuse to intervene in Syria. There was just announced a no-conflict temporary solution in Idlib province. Somebody panicked and decided to provoke Russia.
It failed, but how does Russia respond? Russia is already responding. by stabilizing Syria and making it possible for China to include it in the New Silk Road, Russia has already taken aim at the foundation of the US and its phony money. When the dollar falls, I think Israel will also fall.
This attack by proxy on Russia was an act of desperation by Israel and the US (Neocons).
Putin’s greatest strength for the Saker has always been his popular support. Yet with the soviet pensions system being dismantled, United Russia will perform worse and worse. Putin’s charisma remain, on a personal level of course, but this is also supposed to be his last mandate, and…
Look… what I fear here is a Vietnam effect. Russia is at war, and they know it. They’ve been at war, or better hybrid infowar for years now. The number of russian victims in this conflict, starts to be in hundreds. How long since all their relatives are fed up with this?
Let’s look at it from another perspective… As the Saker often writes, Russia has no obligation at all towards Syria. The conflict was presented to the homeland public as a vital one to prevent terrorism to reach Russia and go wildspread. This was a fine explanation, that surely still stands. However, it cannot be denied that four years in the conflict and we don’t see an end in sight. No matter how many progresses are done on the ground, analysts are quick to explain that Centcom can obliterate all the progresses if they really want, or better, if they really are willing to take the brunt of aggression in the eyes of the western audience.
Well… The western audience has lots of problems at home and can’t really care less of Syria now. And: neocons are mad enough to try this out. And: France and Britain neo colonial stances so far has reaped satisfactions without their blood being spilled. So they’ll continue to do so. And: Turks and US troops in Syria: there is no real way to remove them unless they want. Let’s be honest.
KSA is not losing in Yemen, or not fast enough. Israel enjoys special relationship.
On the other hand, Syria is on its knees, Iran and Russia don’t seem to have an overwhelming majority of common goals… And Russia must also deal with Turkey.
It frankly doesn’t look good, from every sides you look at it. The West has the money to excalate in middle east or in ukraine over and over. It won’t suffer any internal setback from the anesthetized public.
It seems to me that Russia has played clever and smart the few cards it had in its sleeve, with a set of military successes; but now it’s being swamped in big game diplomacy talks, and Russians at home are getting no pensions, and being returned coffins from the front.
The biggest worm in everyone’s head is that by trading military superiority (by aiding allies, giving them S-300 for example) for diplomacy efforts, things may turn sour and Putin risks to lose both.
Well, I don’t know Russia well enough to gauge the power of the Jewish influence there but VVP certainly does. I imagine that he knows exactly what the 5th Column can and cannot do.
VVP’s been characterised as ‘downgrading’ the Ilyushin incident by saying that [RT] ‘‘It looks accidental, like chain of tragic circumstances’’ instead of using the harsher language of the RF MOD. Was he bending to 5th Column pressure? Maybe. But more likely he was biting his tongue. He was in a press conference with Hungary’s Orban when he made the statement. It would not do for the president of the RF (how VVP sees himself) to lose his cool and say exactly what he thinks in front of a foreign dignitary. Instead he’s left it to his his defence minister to articulate what the RF leadership really think about the loss of the Ilyushin.
From RT: Following Putin’s remarks, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said that he had notified his Israeli counterpart Avigdor Lieberman that Moscow “won’t leave Israeli actions unanswered.” What RF’s answer is, we’ll have to wait and see but as I said in an earlier comment on a different thread, I’m thinking ‘missiles’ — either delivery of S-300 to Syria or missiles coming down upon the heads of FUKUS forces in Idlib (maybe it should be just FUK since the US has distanced itself from the incident). Bombing FUKUS in Syria is a better idea than bombing IDF directly — FUKUS will know that if they continue to enable their master, the holy state of Israel, in Syria they should expect to suffer losses. Further (and I don’t mean to sound callous about the loss of Russian lives here) the loss of highly trained FUKUS special operatives in Syria would balance the loss of highly trained RF servicemen.
Meanwhile Israeli duplicity is coming out of the fog with Russian media reporting on it — some reporting less than others, to be sure — but informing the average Russian nonetheless who may also retch on reading about Netanyahu’s ‘apology’ for the incident.
Basil
Saker,
Could you write more about how this is reported on the TV in Russia.
I try and watch translated TV vesti on YouTube but they only show limited parts of shows.
I would like to know more about how it is presented on the news.
The news about this shot down on the plane is shocking to say the least.
Whether there is a 5th column or not – a response has to be made – he needs to have to support the military they arebig part of the power structure. Shoigu is a popular respected figure perhaps more than Putins after the pension rise
How many Russian jets will be blown up, how many young servicemen killed before Russia gives a forceful response? I can really see Paul Craig Roberts point, that by not having a forceful response they are inviting even more such events to occur. Russia is starting to look like an easy target. A push over who can be attacked at will without expecting them to really defend themselves.
Russia
Its time to turn the table.
Instead of Recieving Russian Soldiers home in bodybags
start sending foreign combattants and pilots out of Syria in coffins.
Make shure to televise their departure.
If their home country denies to recieve their combattants.
Then burry their boddy in Syria, and televise the funeral.
It seems that Russian blood is cheaper than Western Zionist blood……but probably not as cheap as Arab blood.
Russia has no right to call itself a super power if it cannot respond or defend itself from Israeli aggression.
Maybe Netenyahu should be invited to Putin’s birthday or Defender of the Fatherland Day and participate in more events to show they are still friends.
Actually I haven’t heard any Russian officials calling themselves a super-power, that’s just what the Americans call themselves and some in the West calls Russia.But I’m sure Russia will retaliate against the aggressors, in time.
Harry_Red: “It seems that Russian blood is cheaper than Western Zionist blood”
So sad but true.
However, Russia could use this western perception to its advantage.
The death of 1 US Combatant, will move more population sentiment in the West, than 100 of dead Russian Soldiers.
Regarding Russian power. I disagree with you. Russia is a Super Power.
Regarding Israel, the sentiment of the majority of population in both America, Europe, Russia and the Nordic Nations are against the Israeli regime.
Decent men and women will not lift a finger to protect Israel when she receives her well deserved pay back.
It seems quite simple really. The AZ empire, in all its guises, will erect provocation after provocation in lieu of the great retreat of Russia before the ultimate surrender. After all the 5th column in Russia is so powerful that resistance is presented as being futile. Like Navalny gets 1% of the popular vote! This strategy is predicated on the notion that the neo-cons are crazy enough to start WW3 with Russia. yeah right. Like neocons don’t incinerate like everybody else.
Regardless, have these AZ armchair warriors even been tested in combat with a powerful adversary?We may in due course find out. But we won’t find out by continual retreat and mealy-mouthed excuses and capitulations to the supposed invincibility of NATO.
I have always thought that Russia’s real weakness is its incorporation into the global economic an financial system which immediately puts it in a position of fighting a war with one arm tied behind its back. This is because its sovereignty is still in the balance and it has no qualms with a neoliberal world order, it just didn’t like it subordinate place in such an order. A free-trade zone from Vladivostock to Lisbon may appeal Soros and his followers but not to me.
The writer claims Christian basis but steadfastly avoids Armageddon. If the writer accepted as Putin does its imminence one might hold back the accusation of cowardice and see courage for what it truly is.
The whole affair is so stupid. This could only happen in Russia.
Israelis bomb Syrian in Russian backyard, and Syrian shoot down Russian plane instead Israelis.
And Putin describes as “tragic circumstances“ Should I cry or laugh?
Why does Russia not leave Syria? He can not defend the lives of his soldiers against Israel. Is Russia defenseless?
I tried to post a review of Martyanov’s book on Amazon.com half hour ago…to my surprise, the review wasn’t sent to my email, like other times and wasn’t posted on the site – first time ( I had reviews posted instantly and removed after, but now they are…’ processing ‘ my review ). I gave the book 5 stars ( since I can’t give it 4.5 ) and cited some sentence from pages 190-191-192. The title of the review was something like ” after the attack of the Russian surveillance plane last night, is Russia to turn the other cheek again ?! I asked the same question again at the end and more: that we, the people/readers start to have doubts about the intention of the Russian leaders and the over-stated superiority of Russians weapons…Like S-400 missile system. So what Russia/Putin is going to do ?! Each time of in-action is an invitation for the Anglo-American-Zionist empire to strike again…PS: I wonder how many positive reviews of ” Losing military supremacy ” are not edited ( there are just 9 ( nine ) of them and I gave a comment to last two of them…I’m convinced that is a part of ‘ burning the books ‘ by Bozos amazon and ‘ Cocaine/crime inc. ‘
This is a continuation of the game of chicken which started when Russia went into Syria.
The USA is controlling Israel not the other way around (though economic ties go both ways). The term Saker coined is: “plausible deniability” and this attack pushed it to the brink.
The US project of repeating a libyan scenario in syria is about to fail, and they are not happy.
No one wants a big war, the least of all Israel. Basically on MIRV thermonuclear missile can take out the whole country. Nothing is gained by the US if Russia pulls out all the stops and demonstrates how good their missile engineering really is.
So the point of this provocation is elsewhere. TBH I am not educated or even motivated enough to understand the underlying reasons, as the whole “eternal war” idea is disgusting.
What I know though (if there are truly different blocs) that the Russian side will respond to the next attack by Israel on a Russian asset. Because that’s how it was in this war from the start – use “plausible deniability” and if you step over the line, you get to go back to penalty area and sit out. Ridiculous and frankly I am being ashamed to be of the same race.
The US can not survive without never ending wars(25% of their real gdp).Ok for them untill they can print as many dollars as they wish no problem(even with a 25 trillions+ debts).Both are linked.The wars are to protect the dollar which is their main asset which permits the continuation of more wars etc etc…No more dollar(or much less)the war machine will have to stop and be confined only inside the US or maybe not very far(Central America f.e).That day the US will finally become a ‘normal country’ not a fake collapsing empire based on debts and paper toilet money fiat money.But of course they will try ANYTHING necessary to avoid that situation which would mean the end of the oligarchy,civil war,riots,collapse of the financial bubbles..).
For Israel it is almost the same situation(greater Israel project).They need wars for ‘fear’ reasons to keep their sheeps afraid that someone,some ‘dictator'(muslim of course)will want to destroy ‘the holy land” of the ‘chosen people’.
But they are more clever they ask(racket is the right word) the money to their friends(US+KSA and some EU countries+diaspora which steal money for them around the world).
They almost don’t fight wars(too cynical and cowards like yesterday)they ask or force/blackmail their ”allies” to do the main part of the job.Israel is a living MIC compared of course to the small size of their ‘land’.If their allies don’t want to die for them,they will launch ‘antisemitic campaign’ with their Mossad/Sayanims agents(like Bernard Henry Levy,Gluksman,Fabius,May,Blair,Bildt etc
KSA is the sponsor of both(Qatar is more linked to Erdogan and the Muslims Brotherhood).
They all have one thing in common(for the moment):to destroy Iran at any price(after Syria).
And for the US/NATO gang then on to destroy Russia to steal the energy resources and the water,they absolutely need to survive beyond 2030/2035.
https://www.big-lies.org/jews-sayanim-hasbarat/
To repeat Paul Craig Roberts: “How long does turning your other cheek work? Do you turn your other cheek so long as to allow your opponent to neutralize your advantage in a confrontation? Do you turn your other cheek so long that you lose the support of the patriotic population for your failure to defend the country’s honor? Do you turn your other cheek so long that you are eventually forced into war or submission? Do you turn your other cheek so long that the result is nuclear war?”
What shouldn’t get lost in this is that Putin did say “our attitude to the tragedy is outlined in the Russian Defense Ministry’s statement”
Defense Ministry statement:
“We regard these provocative actions by Israel as hostile,” Konashenkov said. “As a result of irresponsible actions by the Israeli military 15 Russian military servicemen were killed. This by no means agrees with the spirit of Russian-Israeli partnership. We reserve the right to a proportionate response,”
Russia is not a superpower. If it were, it would not be catching on Israel. A superpower would not allow its soldiers to be killed without response.
Who is to say what the response will be? Why must it be immediate? Revenge is best served cold.
That incident will erect a wall between Army and Putin.
Not to mention morale of soldiers.
Isn’t this exactly what USA an Israel wanted all along? A test of the present quality of the Syrian/Russian air defense system? The Tu 20 downed and the 4 F-16 completing their mission unopposed. Putin downplays the incident in public, we do not know what is being decided behind closed doors. An Israeli jet shot down over Syrian territory and the pilot/s pow in Syrian/Russian hands would change the picture completely. A NATO warship firing missiles into Syria could invite as a test on of Russia’s anti ship missiles If Russia wants an escalation. Which it does not.
I think Putin is letting the Russian 5th column – the Zionists – hang themselves. Let them get their wish so that their real agenda is exposed.
I admire Putin for his patience. The old Judo trick of using the weight of the opponent against himself. The Russian public is not stupid and they will draw their own conclusions.
Putin now seems as a weak moderate of sorts, sad to say, given the loss of such an advanced aircraft and its trained aircrew. He suddenly seems unaware of the type of people with whom he is dealing.
Can Russia Survive Her “Partnerships”? Has Putin Made A Strategic Miscalculation?
Can Russia Survive Her “Partnerships”?
Has Putin Made A Strategic Miscalculation?
Paul Craig Roberts
In an act of intentional deception, Israel used a Russian airplane to cloak an Israeli attack on a Syrian ground position, with the consequence that Syrian air defense missiles downed the Russian airplane with the lost of 15 Russian military lives.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/09/18/can-russia-survive-her-partnerships-has-putin-made-a-strategic-miscalculation/
IMO, this “IL-20 cloaked the Israeli attack” explanation is both incorrect and an intentional diversion. The IL-20 was in the area performing a landing approach for only a few minutes. Reports are the Israeli attack (which was more than just Israel – it was also France and it was likely the U.S. providing battle and intelligence data from an offshore intelligence-gathering aircraft similar to the IL-20) lasted for a reported 90 minutes. I believe what is really being “cloaked” here was the inability of the Russian air defense system to see that the (combined Israel + FUKUS) attack was coming and the inability of the (supposedly “combined”) Russian-Syrian air defense system to manage the battle. If true, this is very bad news for Russia and Syria and very good news for Israel and FUKUS. The next attack will capitalize on the exposed weaknesses of the Russian-Syrian defenses.
Soon all of Israel’s terrorist proxies in Syria will be deader than the zio-tards dream of Greater Israel. Then I won’t have to read all these comments written by complainers and bitchers who don’t understand that the correct strategy is to fight as morally as possible and to attack your opponent’s strategy.
Russia looks weak and amateurish. Putin sounds off as an Israeli apologist. I think perception of Putin being diplomatically masterful and moving between foes as a martial arts artist might are overblown. I am not sure he could be called a nationalist after such a statement given the loss of such an advanced aircraft and crew.
I do not think Putin is ‘caving’ in, as a lot of opinions are suggesting. If I’m correct, I believe Putin or someone some years ago said that Russia would never respond to any type of senseless provocation but in a asymmetric way-with full knowledge that any type of military response would give the opposition the type of scenario they desire.
RUSSIAN RESPONSE:
I expect something like what happened after the Turkey shoot down of the SU24; I think the Putin government will now have the ‘excuse’ to give to Syria S300’s/400’s-Pantiers etc., and to update the Syrian Radar system with the excuse that the shoot down of the II20 could have been avoided if better radar coverage had been available at that time- etc..
I am still thinking about this passage from (paywall) Haaretz quoted by MoA: “Not only Russian and (allegedly) Israeli and French aircraft were in the air. Civilian radar also tracked British Royal Air Force aircraft, which, unusually, had switched on their transponders and gone into holding patterns…” Was this a coordinated thing?
Could be UK aircraft coordinating all this perhaps…..yes exactly what kind of planes from everyone…..would Russia have records of all their communications…..?
Still no demands for explanations from France?
Likely this WAS coordinated between FUKUS (France, UK, US) and Israel. Don’t forget that the U.S. normally has a “signals intelligence” aircraft (like the IL-20, only newer) orbiting off the Syria/Lebanon coast. This aircraft would have been feeding attack data to the Israeli jets. The U.S. aircraft was also likely scooping up air-defense radar information (frequencies, pulse patterns, etc.) from the Russian-Syrian air-defense radars. It could even have been jamming those radars. Without looking at this “bigger picture”, there will be no Russian-Syrian understanding of what happened during this attack as well as what is going to happen (much worse) in future attacks.
Dear Saker,
I wonder if you are being slightly naïve here. I think it was FDR who stated that ‘In politics. nothing happens by chance’, etc. The same applies in war which is mostly the extension of politics.
You stated that; “4 Israeli aircraft were sent on a bombing mission against targets near the Russian facilities in Khmeimim and Tartus (which, by itself, is both stupid and irresponsible). The Israelis *deliberately* did not warn the Russians until less than a minute before the attack took place, thus the Russians did not have the time to tell the crew of the Il-20 electronic warfare aircraft, which was on approach for a landing,”
The timing here is impeccable, totally impeccable, so just exactly how did the Israelis time their mission with such impeccability? I would think that the Russian MOD would be looking very closely at that.
So, according to FDR, the actual Israeli target was the II-20 aircraft, and I would concur with FDR!
There seem to be a lot of knee-jerk hothead responses on here. Why not wait until all the data and analyses are in before exacting retribution?
There’s no real hurry and Armageddon can wait a few more days.
My concern about this waffling is that while I believe President Putin is a patriot who has the best interests of his nation at heart, there are likely more than one military veterans (generals, colonel’s, etc.) who have seen battle or who have lost family to prior battles going back to WWI. The military does not always see eye to eye with the “intelligence” community and for this reason, I believe Putin’s inaction and excuse-making will prompt a high level service member to demand action for this latest affront to Russia’s pride and integrity. What that is and when it comes is anyone’s guess, but I feel it’s coming, even if Putin doesn’t know it and that is the real danger of his constant inaction.
“A tragic accident, blah, blah, blah…” No action Will take place but… Israel owes to Putin…
But not Shoigu.
And both Putin and Shoigu play chess, not checkers.
My son, Angus, plays Chinese Chess and the last time he was in China he beat a ‘Master’ of the game, simply by studying and watching.
Both Putin and Shoigu are now studying and watching. They will win this game of checkers.
South Front is not buying the Russian explanation and is sticking with the original which was the French shot down the plane:
https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/
So I read a lot about retaliate or not to retaliate by Russia. But Russia could have had a proxy force ready to go by now armed up with a combination of latest SAM systems and a large ballistic missile force.
If Russia simply begins to trust Syria and Iran and allows/helps them to build up rapidly a force alongside Hezbollah then there will be a force that can deter Israel completely and if necessary win a war with them.
Russia would actually see its risk and losses go down with a capable Syria/Iran/Hezbollah force to act as a proxy and barrier between themselves and Israel
First thing to do is sell Syria the best variant of S300. Then coordinate with Iran on building up missile factories in Syria to produce a mobile heavy guided SRBM that can pound Israeli bases throughout a war
This will allow a new freedom of action for Russia as the ultimate guarantor of peace without getting mixed up with low level aggression like this
Thanks alot for your input Saker – its time to act – for Russia – and they will – this won’t be forgotten – its really one of the best things that could have happened because its the beginning of the real end of Israhel-
it seems like Putin is afraid – I wonder though – I heard that Israel’s own study has concluded that they are NOT ready for hot war – I think they want to subjugate Russia – which Putin has FINALLY decided is not going to happen by the States – Russia subjected to the US – but what about Israel ?
It sure is scary how much Israel controls – worldwide –
Corrected post: Joaquin Flores at Fort Russ claims the French did indeed shoot down the Russian aircraft and are running a disinfo campaign for diplomatic reasons.
https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/
It’s a rather convoluted and complex speculation; I’d certainly like to get the Saker’s opinion on it.
https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/
Earlier I had mentioned that everybody in their haste to villify Israel -which they generally deserve- had ignored the French frigate which was reported to have launched missiles. Which were launched of the two types it carried (Aster or Scalp) was not defined but if Scalp cruise missile fragments are found in Latakia and the quantity of missiles launched is known then it may be possible to eliminate/confirm the surface to air Aster as the culprit.
If the Israeli F16s were the culprits then at least one F-16 would likely have needed heavy air-to-air missiles -lightweight defensive missiles would have run the risk of only damaging the large 4 engined IL-20. It would also be a premeditated act rather than an accident/rogue pilot.
This (((marxist))) is a joke. Pure propaganda.
He pretended that Israel was bombing terrorists in Syria not iran/Syrian assets.
Why would a French frigate do this ?
It’s Israel that’s the master of false flag. Remember 9/11?
He will use any chutzpah to defend (((them))).
A very far-fetched story for a number of reasons. Just to start off, the author on Fort Russ believes that Russia blamed Israel and not France for diplomatic reasons. An immediate problem here is that the accusation of Israel was made by the Ministry of Defense not the President.
Two points struck me about the initial reaction of Shoigu. First, that he was convinced that Israel was in fact responsible. Second that he was angry … very angry. I believed him. It seems implausible that his naming Israel in those circumstances was based on some complex, Machiavellian calculation. Moreover, the actual statements of the RF government seemed to be performing damage control and did not not blame Israel, only bad luck. Of course, they had to work from the initial reaction of Shoigu which could not be unsaid.
The next objection is that the tactical structure of the operation doesn’t fit. France, together with the UK are the primary NATO military partners used to support US military operations. The US has already denied involvement. The idea that France, by itself, would deliberately down a Russian aircraft is very far-fetched. Moreover, the involvement of the Israelis doesn’t fit. Israel is not a NATO member and does not place military forces under foreign command as in NATO. Possibly this was an Israeli operation in which France was duped to participate.
So are we to believe that France would deliberately shoot down an important Russian military asset on their own? Without the participation and support of the US? The author only refers to mysterious “Atlanticists” directing the actions of France. This is not a believable argument in my opinion.
The idea that the actual presence of the French warship was in itself incriminating is not very persuasive. No doubt the Eastern Mediterranean is heavily patrolled by NATO, Russian and other warships.
The author states that including a denial of involvement by the French is bizarre and entirely out of place, since no one accused France. Well, the author has accused France, and the French were there. The US also issued a denial of involvement. Actually if it was the French they could not ultimately refuse to admit involvement if only to admit their attack was an accident.
Finally, of course, the piece concludes with a string of unsupported and weakly thought-out assertions that Israel had no motive for the attack. The author does not even consider the possibility that the IL20 may have been shot down by one of the F16s.
I didn’t expect this…
I was all set for a fake chemical attack. i never thought Israel would be this bold. Should I be surprised? No
Some response options:
1. Hezebollah rockets. The IDF can’t stop Hezebollah. This would be a safe bet and send Israel a message.
2. Attack Ukraine/support LPR and DPR. You can play tit for tat with an area that the West has probably abandoned. Ukraine military no ability to mount significant resistance.
3. Shoot down Israeli planes. this one is self explanatory.
4. Go hard after the fifth column. This is long overdue and maybe the best idea of the four. This sounds like a monunmetal task, but drawing up a list of a couple hundred traitors should be able to be done..have them eliminated.
So does Putin finally sell S400s to Syria? Seems he is willing to sell to their enemies like Turkey and Saudi Arabia but not to the country that needs them the most?
Israel will continue to do this until they can’t and that means that S400s or equivalent are sold to Syria. They will constantly see how far they can go and then next time go a little farther and so on.
Did the Russian Il20 aeroplane have the same routine each day,finishing at the same time & same flight path.If so the IDF F16s could have been aware of this & used this information for their illegal sneaky raid.
“Netanyahu stressed the importance of continuing coordination in the security area between Israel and Russia,
had he properly coordinated with his partner putin on that fateful night, those 15 lives lost may have been still breathing today. and now he wants to continue coordination with putin. for what? to murder more russian lives?
mr. putin is saying the solution is to beef up more defense capability for Syria. what beef up? when that incident happened, the syrian coast was already beefed up with the build up of the russian navy.. so why this carnage happened? four f16s hide behind the bigger II20. is this not a set up? am not a russian but i do value the life of a russian. mr putin practically absolves the criminal culpability of the talmudic juhadists in tel aviv and the country who was attacked is now responsible for this tragedy. this is beyond belief!
An interesting take on the IL-20 shootdown. Keep in mind that the author seems to be Jewish.
https://tsarizm.com/analysis/2018/09/18/russia-not-syria-shootdown/
Sorry but this is a load of crap.Just speculative Zionist nonsense. The whole website is Trump supporting nonsense. You really need to pick your sources carefully and why post it here.
Hmmm is Net going to keep to the statement “our red lines are clearly defined” or modify that in any way…..oh to.get a transcript of VVP call to Net and Shoigu to Lieberman.. perhaps they should be released to show to Russian peoples real conversations not agreed political statements…..
Did the Israelis plan the situation in such a way that made it certain that the Syrian air defense missiles would hit the IL-20?
Or
Did the Israeli pilot use IL-20 to protect himself from Syrian missiles at the expense of the IL-20?
Why did the Russians allow the Syrians to lob missiles at the Israeli planes? The Russians don’t seem to want the Syrian missiles to hit any Israeli planes as it would upset the Israelis, which the Russians obviously don’t want.
While fudging and obfuscation may be useful in the political sphere it is not useful in the military sphere. Looks like Putin has done a disservice to his military and to his allies by allowing this anomaly in military matters. And Netanyahoo has taken full advantage of this weakness.
Further events to watch:
Will the pilot of the Israeli plane, its squadron etc. be reprimanded for their actions or get medals and promotions?
What actions will the Russians take to ensure that similar events do not happen again?
Will the Israelis be allowed to continue bombing Syria?
Did the Russian Il20 aeroplane fly over the same area each day & return to base at the same time on completion of its patrol.If so the Israeli air force could have been possibly aware of this & formulated their illegal raid.
We know already that syrian coast has been patrolled by the russian navy. the actual incident that the IDF was in the right place at the right time when the Il20 was downed, they must have been provided by accurate information when the Il20 will be there from it’s routine reconnaisance. and who provided this intelligence to them? my hunch is of course the turkish source via mossad. i hope i’m wrong but if correct putin was backstabbed twice! each backstab happens after a meeting.
The U.S. typically has signals-intelligence aircraft (like the IL-20, only newer) orbiting off the Lebanon-Syria coast. Don’t underestimate the role that these U.S. aircraft likely play in these “combined forces (Israel plus U.S. plus France plus Britain) attacks on Syria.
By all the reports I have seen, the plane was landing, Most likely it was already on a glide slipe towards the runway and not in active intelligence mode. The Israelis took a cheap shot. It was a deliberate act. I think this is supported by statements from the Russian ministry and Putin himself. Putin no where said it was a accident. At best he said that it “looked” accidental.
So why no retaliation from Putin? The answer is Idlib.
Three major components came out of the Idlib agreemnt. Two were the opening of two highways connecting Damascus and Latakia. The third is the DMZ. The DMZ puts Russian and ISIS troops face to face and opens the possibiliy of direct conflct. This is important. So far Russia’s purpose for being in Syria is to help the government. If Russia had a plausible reason to attack ISIS in Idlib the game would change. It is important for Russia to be able to develop a narrative for direct confrontation with ISIS. This will also limit ISIS supporters in creating false flag scenarios and deflecting attention to the government of Syria. The highways are strategic in supporting an escallation in the DMZ.
The Idlib agreement will give Russian plausible deniability to expand it operations without having to consult Turkey or Israel. This is why Israel acted now. The plane which was shot down was part of the air defenses during the raid. I think Israel was hoping for a scenario of diminishing Syrian air defence and then callimg in US support to exploit the hole for a broader attack which would have been justified by some off the wall story later.
Retaliation will come. Once the DMZ is functioning and Russian has plausible deniability.
Despite the current alternatives for interpreting the ‘management’ of this incident by the Russian leadership, and the extremely high probability of the 5th column in Russian foci of power, governmental, non-governmental, and very likely extra-governmental agencies, (just like everywhere else!), the Russian leadership is the last vestige of resistance against the enemies of humanity.
As such, I would like to send condolences to the Russians, the armed services, who actually are on a mission on the side of humanity, thus worthy a cause, and I send positive to those who lost their personal heroes, some of us know who the good-guys are.
Back to the Russian leadership…
Let us acknowledge the 5th column, and put it aside for the moment.
The actions of the Russian leadership on this issue is consistent with an intelligent, non-reactive consideration of optimal courses of action. The sense I get from the article is for an American style, ‘all guns blazing’ take-down of the bad guys in the western town.
My mind is drawn back to that movie, with Sean Penn and Robert Duvall, you can run down there and get a heifer, or you can walk down there… and get them all!
It takes a little longer.
I don’t believe that this murder is going to be let go; are we talking about… the bear?!
No way is this going to be just let go!
This was a set play, and everybody who is looking closely at it, like a lot of Russians knows it; they know that it was murder, by the ‘aren’t-we-so-clever crew.
Shit is definitely going to happen!
But not necessarily utterly blatant; just enough to deliver the message.
Speaking of the coverage in the empire, which would be more correct to describe as the ridiculous lack of coverage…
The CBC used two different, on-the-shelf-for-when-needed set pieces as the headliners, one in the morning about how ticketmaster manipulates ticket prices, and double-dips (who doesn’t know that?!), and and evening lead, and the American Congressional whip threatening Canada to ‘get in line’ on the North American Free Trade re-negotiation, following cues of the titular boss. The CBC is still running the deep dive on the ticket price manipulating, as I write.
I say, what if it was a British, French, German loss of similar tragedy?!
It would be 48 hours of carpet-bombed deep-diving about all aspects of the event.
But not about this huge,geopolitically-significant news story.
Is there any doubt that this was one the super-clever, using superior situational intelligence … collective, that you can’t mention, if it has to do with doing something wrong?!
Russia responding appropriately in the short term would trigger WWIII, they have to be smarter than that!
Who knows, this super-clever – my, aren’t we so clever cheesy cheat move could be very significant, moving forward.
I don’t believe the current Russian leadership will let this USS Liberty-esque affront go; they’re not that kind of people.
Love and respect to our host.
Everyone please have we all forgotten the Turkish experience so soon? Where are relationship now? As well as they possibly can be according to the times and the volatile situation in the Middle East. The Zionist regime will pay dearly. I see President Vladimir Putin as a man who values human life minus those of terrorist of course, why kill innocent soldiers who are following the dictates of their greedy leaders when he can deal with these leaders and leave their judgement to their people.? The Zionist regime will be dealt with and they will be made to pay. Quite unfortunate at the lose of life. My condolences to their loved ones.
Martyanov, who knows far more than the Armchair Generals posting here has stated that “Syrian AD didn’t have IFF codes, which Russia (understandably) didn’t want to provide. So, that means the integration with SAA’s AD is done by simpler protocols.”
So yes, the Syrian’s probably did shoot down the aircraft. But if the Israeli’s hadn’t been attacking Syria, this would not have occurred.
The Russians will get their revenge when the time is right. Remember, revenge is a dish best served cold.
Tony Cartalucc article. Worth a read especially the Sun Tzu refresher and second to last and last paragraphs:
“Avenging serial provocations is infinitesimally less important than overall victory in Syria. The fate of Syria as a nation, Iran’s security and stability as a result, and even Russia’s own self-preservation is on the line. The awesome responsibility of those who have planned and executed Syria’s incremental victory over proxy forces backed by the largest, most powerful economies and military forces on Earth could greatly benefit from a public able to understand the difference between short-term gratification and long-term success and how the former almost certainly and recklessly endangers the latter.”
https://journal-neo.org/2018/09/18/syrian-russian-victory-only-way-to-avenge-israeli-french-strikes/“
This is very serious. All circumstances of this coordinated Israeli and NATO attack indicate an intended taking out of the high tech ELINT plane with its 13 experienced specialists. This punches a massive hole into the electronic defence infrastructure of the combined Syrian-Russian shield against a major NATO attack. It does not necessarily mean that such attack is imminent, but it dramatically reduces the leeway for Russia for political and military defense action. Certainly that was the purpose.
This is dangerous since in this situation, the risk for an unintended (or Borg-intended) escalation increases exponentially. And it is an explanation for Putin’s walking on eggs. He will likely react to this brazen aggression at a convenient time, but first he has to recover his freedom for maneuvering and prevent a Sarajevo moment (i.e. its mismanagement, because as trigger, the Il-20 loss resulting from this aggression is comparable in its potential consequences).
Equally horrific is the muting of the mass media. It did not happen, neither the MH17 proof for Ukrainian responsibility nor the obviously by UK faked indicatiors for a Russian Skripal involvement.
Saker have you seen the Kremlin website
I am shocked by the read out of the call between Netanyahu and Putin. Lost all respect for him when I read this pathetic response.
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/58589
The Israeli Prime Minister expressed his condolences over the death of the 15 servicemen aboard the Il-20 aircraft shot down in Syria on September 17. With respect to a thorough investigation, Benjamin Netanyahu promised to provide detailed information on the activities of the Israeli Air Force over Syrian territory on that day, which will be delivered soon to Moscow by the Israeli Air Force commander.
Vladimir Putin noted that operations of this nature by the Israeli Air Force are in violation of Syria’s sovereignty. In this particular case, Russian-Israeli agreements on preventing dangerous incidents had not been observed either, and that resulted in the Russian aircraft coming under Syrian air defence fire. The Russian President called on the Israeli side to prevent such incidents in the future.
Many trolls here hoping for WW3. The Syrian terrorists are almost defeated. There is lots of time for Russia to carefully consider their response.
Why does the response need to be immediate?
Putin has made Russia strong. To give up on him now is exactly what the AZs are hoping to achieve through this well planned incident in which they will publicly deny having any involvement in.
What Putin apologists fail to understand is that this situation could have been avoided if Russia delivered the s300 to Syria and didn’t allow Israel to bomb the very country they came to defend. There Is no excuse for Putin judeophillia.
Sure, let’s repeat time after time about brilliant judo moves, Sun Tzu, 15D chess and all other mambo jumbo.
Meanwhile, Russians keep dying in Syria, Russian aircrafts keep being shot down, missiles keep flying above Russian bases in Syria, and ‘partners’ keep smacking Russia left and right without any consequences. Brilliant.
Yet, Russia is winning the war thanks to it’s brilliant campaign. Israel was defeated in Aleppo, Deir Ez-Zor, Douma, Ghouta and Damascus and it is only a matter of some months before Southern Idlib is cleansed of Zionist operated al-Qaeda death squads. After that Northern and Eastern Syria will be liberated and ZioNATO forced out by the locals.
Therefore, Israel is desperate to escalate in Syria which is why they pulled this typically ‘cute’ stunt. Tactical terrorist attacks is all Israel has at this stage unless the US/NATO steps in to crush Syria. But then Russia will respond in kind, or Russia is next if such an attack takes place. And this time Israel will be targeted too.
The main thing Israel achieved with this is to make Israel itself, and it’s military assets, a target. Russia tried to avoid this situation, but ISRAEL itself insisted.
Israel is facing complete strategic defeat in Syria, which means complete strategic defeat for all their plans. This is why Putin and Russia, up until now, played along with the Israeli game of hitting ‘Iranian’ targets in Syria. These attacks do no real strategic damage but kept Israel believing they are achieving something while they lose the real war.
Israel can torment the Palestinian people all they want, they can (could, up until now) bomb Syria relatively easily but they cannot win the war in Syria as long as the Russian forces are there. And Russia is there to stay and Russia is winning on all fronts, regardless of US/Israeli terrorism.
Israel’s “brilliant” campaign has created exactly what they fear the most. An undefeatable, unplacable, militarily capable enemy on it’s border. It has doomed Israel to self destruction.
This is why Netanyahu cannot back down but will keep pushing until ZioNATO attacks Syria and Russia for real. Unless Israel wins in Syria the Zionist project is over. Russia understands this perfectly well which is why they keep talking and working with Israel while ensuring the viability of Syria as a sovereign state. Therefore, as Putin said, the downing of the Il-20 is “tragic” – but such actions are also to be expected as Israeli desperation increases.
Let’s remember Pres. Putin’s reaction to Sultan Erdogan’s downing of the Russian aircraft. Avoiding jingoistic REFLEXES, his measured response costed the Turkish economy tens if not houndreds of times more than the price of the Sukhoi.
His balanced approached left his channels of communication to the Sly Sultan open. Thus allowing him to save the latter’s Holy Neck, when Erdogan the First was backstabbed by Anglozio Empire.
In Sly Sultan Erdo the First, he created a subservient collaborator, be it a treacherous one not worthy of a friendship/alliance, instead of a mortal and costly enemy.
Russia in a similar fashion to Iran, has proven that it is more dangerous to be an US/Israeli friend, instead of an enemy of the first two, if willing to repent.
Russia needs now or never to show some real will to RETALIATE (sorry for the caps). Otherwise the lives of Russian personal in Syria (or anywhere) will be in constant danger. The consequences (if not RETALIATION) will be that anybody (US, Britts, French) whoever will feel encoureged to “punish” ie. kill Russians there, since they know this can be done with absolute impunity. Israelis are intending to call the bluff so far they have succeded regrettably.
After reading the majority of comments here (thanks to all) and thinking about them, I am of the opinion that (1) the IL-20 and its experienced ELINT crew were the prime target in the whole ‘raid’ and (2) the Israeli F-16s were only a distraction – an Israeli F-35 did the deed. Remember, there is a whole operational squadron of Israeli F-35s, which has been practicing being stealthy over Syria and Lebanon (and maybe Iran). My opinion is that the F-16s were used to keep the Russian/Syrian radar operators focused on them. Then, a quick ‘snap shot’ by the radar-invisible F-35, while the F-16s flew around looking busy. If the Syrians were firing S-200 missiles towards them, so much the better. That way, there was ‘plausible deniability’ that a S-200 took-out the IL-20…
(My condolences to the families of the IL-20 crew.)
(Actually, the main mission of the Israeli F-16s may have been to draw-out the Syrians to fire S-200 missiles at them. Without that, the downing of the IL-20 by ‘nothing’ would have been too obvious…)
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/09/18/can-russia-survive-her-partnerships-has-putin-made-a-strategic-miscalculation/. I am starting to believe more and more that PCR has been right all along. It comes also to my mind that Russia (Putin) sends money! to pay pensions of former Russian (Jewish) citizens now living in Israel. They “pay” back by killing Russians! Good deal!
Putin’s Forfeit – From Strategic Mistake to Strategic Defeat in 24 Hours
http://johnhelmer.net/putins-forfeit-from-strategic-mistake-to-strategic-defeat-in-24-hours/
John Helmer writes every word to put down Putin’s government…..
How can anyone be so dense to believe that John Helmer is a military genius who knows what a strategic defeat is when he doesn’t know what a strategic envelopment is?
LOL! The strategic losers are Israel, Saudia Arabia and FUKUS.
Is Russia going to stop killing their terrorist proxies?
I care more about every Russian combat death than I would if it were my own country’s troops over there. They are facing the daily threat of war with an Imperialist aggressor, and so many of our fellow citizens do not even appreciate how they and the Russian state are doing everything they can to protect the world, as a result of their legitimate efforts at self-defence.
I must say when I first heard the Russian Defence Ministry’s response, I thought finally – Israel deprived of all privileges in Syria. Then of course came the correction from Putin. Utter dismay.
It’s hard not to think Putin is wrong. To think PCR is right. This was the misstep, this was the time to act, to draw the line, with Israel so clearly in the wrong. We could all pay for his mistake in not taking this chance.
All we can hope now is that Putin is just acting to dampen expectations, to deceive Israel and to regroup and prepare, and “serve the revenge cold” in a way and time of Russia’s choosing. History shows this is possible, but we know the Zionist lobby is strong, and he cannot delay forever. What is he waiting for?
If Putin’s statement reflects his genuine belief and intent, we’re doomed.
“Then of course came the correction from Putin. Utter dismay.”
All Putin has said is that it LOOKS to be an accident, (which it is, on the part of the Syrian S-200 crew who actually shot the IL-20 down) and that he AGREES with the Russian MoD statement, which has laid the blame for the loss of 15 Russian servicemen squarely at Israel’s door.
Of course if it turns out the Israelis fired an AAM at the IL-20, as opposed to using it as a radar shield (as has been stated explicitly by the MoD), then that changes things. But we don’t know that yet.
I simply don’t see Putin’s comments as caving in, in any shape or form.
Two great analyses by cool heads on this latest typically disgraceful us-zionist action.
R.I.P the 15 Servicemen who were murdered by the warmongeRERS.
“… With the diplomatic, economic, military and political skills and astuteness of China, Russia, Iran and Syria, Idlib will also be freed from the jihadist plague, in spite of Western and Israeli interventions to protect their proxies in the country. https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/09/19/west-hates-peace-syria-from-de-escalation-almost-world-war-iii-just-two-hours.html
“…The greatest possible “revenge” to exact upon those who inflicted this war upon the Syrian people, is their absolute and total defeat. https://journal-neo.org/2018/09/18/syrian-russian-victory-only-way-to-avenge-israeli-french-strikes/
A couple of the posters have made some particularly valuable points. Particularly poster Grom who pointed out the uniquely valuable properties of the IL20 as a listening post. Also Larchmonter’s comparison to the Liberty is a key point.
We like to look for false flags and obscure motives. There are a couple of points that need to be kept in mind, though. First, Israel does not place military forces under foreign command. Israeli military actions serve the interests of Israel, not the US or NATO. However, Israel does prefer to shift the blame to other parties such as the US when possible. A number of books have been written to attempt to shift blame for the Liberty incident to the Johnson administration, for example. But this illusion is difficult to maintain for those familiar with the IDF command structure.
Secondly of course, Israel is not the “ally” or “friend” or “partner” of any other country. Not Russia, not the US. Israel will maintain good relations with any country that supports Israeli interests. But this is only insofar as the relationship is useful. Russia should have learned this lesson long before this. The US should have learned this from the Liberty.
My takeaway from this is that Israel attacked this aircraft specifically and for their own reasons. Not as part of a false flag or as a provocation at the the behest of the US or NATO. Had the attacking aircraft been other than Israeli other motives might have more credibility. So why that aircraft? Most obvious explanation is that Israel did not want the Russians listening in on Israeli communications with whatever intelligence or military assets they have in Idlib. What those assets are I don’t know. But whatever assets remain in Idlib are largely at the mercy of Ergodan and he and Israel have not had a pleasant history.
This is a good thought. The reason for this act might have been purely tactical, e.g. covering a critical operation to extract operatives or otherwise incriminating material from Idlib province.
What has just happened has created an opportunity for Mr Putin to act. Even if he is correct in his observation, the zionists still should not had been there doing what they were doing. They are indeed arrogant, confident, assertive, aren’t they? Yes, General Shoigu is right: they must get the response they deserve!
No wonder they (the zionists) have been put down so many times before – although they also have invariably returned…
This makes me think that what we call “the zionists” has nothing to do with religion – they are actually all of those people who are in control of the majority of institutions in the world, even if they themselves are not the richest ones. The very rich are just parasites; they can only exist while their zionist servants remain in their powerfull positions. It is a system, a machine; we must break it apart to get rid of it.
Ben Sampson (above) said it right when he said that this “… Zionist monster could have grown and developed as it has only in an exploitative society. The best chance humanity has is to revolutionize society, creating a cooperative society as we go. That will kill the zionist monster, deprive it of hosts it can invest and drive to its purpose.” (I could not have said it better; thanks, Ben Sampson)
Vanessa Beeley Interview From Syria – Israeli Attacks, Russia’s Response & Idlib’s
Coming False Flag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA651DWgDi8
There is the issue of winning the battle and losing the war. I think in general we are too hard on Putin. Why did the press go with the headline of It Looks Accidental, like a chain of tragic circumstances? They could just as well have said that Putin is in support of the DOD as headline. And yes, it does ‘look’ like tragic circumstances, but Putin did not say it IS a chain of tragic circumstances. He also said that steps will be taken to boost security of Russian troops and these will be “the steps that everyone will notice”.
I don’t think we’ve seen the end of this, despite the heavy battering that Putin is taking where-ever one looks.
It is so that Putin de-escalated. What did we want him to do with Israel right at the moment? I think there will be much talk in Russian circles and we will Notice the Steps Taken. And he supported his DOD.
This all is a very emotional time just after we all watched the Idlib situation and now with the highly trained aircrew just dead. We are baying for battle in a sense. But, do we really want what we are baying for? Personally in my heart I am also baying for battle but this provocation is surely one of trying to pull Russia into a greater war and to take the focus off of Idlib? Now we need to check Putin recover from this situation and I hope he does. I want to see those promised steps taken. Who is willing to open to the possibility that Israel will have much less freedom to do damage within Syrian airspace in future?
It is so that Putin de-escalated. What did we want him to do with Israel right at the moment?
Russian knew that Israelis were approaching with an intend to bomb Syrian close to Russian assets.
By doing so Russian life’s were endangered. Putin or anyone in command failed to protect his own army.
Israelis planes should be warned and if they ignored warning, they should be intercepted by fighters.
There was no risk of WW3 if executed professionally.
For the loss of Il-20 is Russia that should be blamed, nor Syrian, or Israelis.
I do hope Putin with Shoigu together go on tv with a full public statement with q and a to show they are united and explain exactly how their intentions will be implemented…..surely Russian peoples including military deserve open public statements not continued references to partners….agreements…hotlines….time everything was openly laid out re arrangements…protocols…conditions…responses…..rules of engagement and “defence”….etc etc…otherwise their trust is in danger of being lost.
Korybko’s take, considering it a possible rogue pro-american Israeli deep state action to sabotage the detente with Russia and trigger full-on conflict. I cannot imagine how the deep state within Israel can look like.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-russia-relations-and-the-downing-of-russian-jet/5654447
I had a similar idea when I read the article. It is possible, though, that a group of rogue pro-american military in ishreal did it… A better explanation, however, for the blatantly apologist zionist reaction is that it was the only possible way they could react to Mr Putin’s reaction!
Additionally, I read a few minutes ago that Russia did not actually get any call from ishreal less then a minute before the missile hit the plane, as had been previously published…
As the zionists could not believe that the Russians would not react to the downing of a military airplane in Latakia, they foolished themselves in the media with excuses, blaming everybody they could (as they always do) – when, actually, what happened is that their plan failed! What else could they do – recognize that they did it to start a war? If this is true, the problem is: what are they going to do next?
Interesting: this Russian EW military aircraft was shot down, somehow, just after Russia released the report about the fall of the MH17. Coincidence, or is there a possibility of a relationship, of ishrealis involvement in the MH17 fall? If this was not a coincidence, we can be sure that the ishrealis are indeed specialists in shooting down airplanes… and probably have shot down others which we do not know, yet…
I wondered that myself -was it a less than subtle reminder that Israel can shoot down any plane at any time while deflecting blame on to someone else?
Everyone in here is justifiably foaming at the mouth but they are blinded by emotion and blinkered from assessing any potential subtlleties. The long-term big picture is lost by fixating on the short term.
I’m curious. There is talk about the Russian population in Israel – what are their thoughts and reactions to the Israeli attack on the Russian forces?
1. s-200 takin down russian aircraft? not likely if they have ANY ability to spot an allied plane
2. israel attacks syra and blames……..france…? huh? why not just do what it always does and brag about the ‘decsive precision strike’?
3. putin backs down to…………….erdogan?1 and has basically allowed turkey to annex idleb?!
translation: either putin has something VERY clevel up his sleeve, of, he has simply wimped out
Putin must be ready to fight if he is bent, determined, on the path he has taken in the world. the Zionist and the western oligarchs are barely human. they will do all and everything they calculate is necessary to save their world domination. and that includes everything they have always done in this endeavour and worse.
this is what PCR understands..they will, they are doing it and it will get far far far worse.
Global peace threatens the very foundations of the existence of Israel and the USA Oligarchy. peace will lead to cooperative society or democracy or socialism whatever we want to call it..but it would be the control of society by ordinary people, those who work and produce the wealth.
it means the end of bureaucracy, the end of banks enslaving people by debt; the end of bribery and corruption, of lies dominating the intellectual superstructure, of global pornography and the institution of sexual deviance as normal human behaviour..it means the end of the degrading of humanity by the party the Zionists and the western oligarchs have going on the world that involves all manner of atrocities for simple pleasure..like the horrific global Pedophilia that appears to include the abduction of children everywhere for all manner of evil including child sacrifice and so on.
it means the end of the catholic church the institution that by doctrine banned out sexual deviance, instituted priestly celibacy, yet made a safe place in its bosom for the very same thing..as the scandals that flow out of that church attests
the western Zionist oligarchy will not allow social change that dispossess them of social control if they can help it. I think they will blow the planet, or spread diseases everywhere, if it comes to that..that is how vile they are. but they will do so anyway because they know there will come a day..and before that day they will hobble the human species so they can try to control it in perpetuity
this is what we are dealing with as all truthful reports of human history exposes.
Putin had to be operating on such understanding with a plan that addresses all that in utter seriousness. as he has been does not make all the sense in the world.
It may be difficult for many to admit, but Putin is a Master actor worthy of an Oscar.
He leaves nobelized Mr.Hope and Change in the dust.
To me this explains the main reason why Russia is OCCUPIED since 1918.
My Country and people are in the same boat.
Perhaps Russian Patriots will stop shedding blood and wasting lives for 5th. columnists and their Anglo-Zionist masters.
This could be a great move OR a massive cave…unfortunately, we won’t know for weeks or even months because we aren’t privy to what’s going on behind the scenes. It’s incredibly frustrating and everyone wants to know right away, but we can only speculate.
Wont sit well with the Russian public? LOL Are you kidding me? My Russian wife tells me that they are barely even covering this news. She had to search very hard to find it on any Russian news site.
Depuis deux jours je suis intrigué par le fait que la Russie et les média comme RT et Sputnik ne font pas de suivi sur la question de la frégate Française. L’armée Russe a déclaré avoir enregistrer des tirs de missiles Français, puis… plus rien. Aucun suivi sur cet aspect de l’événement. Aujourd’hui je tombe sur cette analyse de Joaquim Flores:
https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/
A must read.
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GoogleTranslated by Mod:
“For two days I am intrigued by the fact that Russia and media like RT and Sputnik do not follow up on the issue of the French frigate. The Russian army has declared to record French missile fire, then … nothing. No follow-up on this aspect of the event. Today I come across this analysis of Joaquim Flores:”
So many comments on this article.I think people here that are dissatisfied with the Russian response to this incident should remember, regardless of how this looks politically and PR-wise, the military situation on the ground remains unchanged.It’s likely these symbolic attacks are meant to serve as crutches for propaganda and 5th column attempts to change the political landscape inside Russia,Syria and other places.
A report of Russia’s involvement in Syria would look like this.
1) Liberate the jihadi parts of Syria- Yes. Nearly complete. Including the Israeli assisted part. Now for the Turkish assisted part.
2) Liberate the US occupied parts- Not yet.
3) Avoid WW3- Yes. Because we are all still here. Difficult but so far successful.
Seems like that WW3 is what is at stake here. The Israeli attack is definitely craven and cowardly; not giving Russia advance notice, hiding behind the Russian plane’s radar signature and subverting the French (NATO) to launch missiles as cover. By Way of Deception…., anyone?
But thats what Israel do. Deception. Cowardliness. Best to get other people to fight and die for the Tribe. Against Russia? Best to use NATO.
Anyone with half a brain know this. Does anyone here think Putin and the Russians have less than half a brain?
Rather, they know that is what the Israelis are like. And some say Russia have an alliance with Israel? If so, then they do it with their eyes wide open. Fifth column zig zaging for sure. Sure is taking a long and difficult time. But moving forward on their objectives in Syria all the same.
Just wait a while. And see if Putin achieves his objectives. Along the way, be fascinated how Putin play the game to free Syria and avoid WW3. I believe we are living in a grace period before WW3. I am just happy we are all still alive to see the eminent master statesman that is Putin in action.