If the US military and the Pentagon have any integrity left they will join with Russia and turn their guns on Israel and enforce the quarantine… And ask some serious questions about the USS Liberty etc. while they are at it.
The Russian MOD are fuming – the fact that they have had to call another press conference and release radar data now to dispute the lies of the Israeli air force – shows how disgusted they are about these lies on the whereabouts of the F-16 (and threats to destroy the S300s). Fifteen of their colleagues died and those who caused their deaths still wont admit their part in those deaths. This isn’t looking good for the Israeli air-force/MOD. Just apologise – but hey they won’t will they! Their arrogant attitude and tactics will be their downfall.
The Russian leadership weren’t so angry when all the pre-approved bombs were raining on the SAA.
Good point but the Russians didn’t have an agreement with Israel not to bomb SAA, they had an agreement with the Israelis not to harm Russians, and vice versa. Now all bets are off.
The Russians may not be protecting the Syrians directly but there’s a very good chance that they’ll pass any info on any hostile moves.that come their way to the Syrians Why do you think the Israelis only informed them 10% of the time when they’re attacking Syria?
What do you want them to do? Be the “world policeman” the US pretends to be? To fight against “injustice” and “protect the weak?” You do realize that 90% of Russia still looks like it’s stuck in the 19th century, right? They don’t have the means to protect anyone but themselves, which is what they are doing in Syria. They’re not there to prevent another Libya for “noble” reasons, but to prevent the enormous damage to Russia, should Syria fall. Syria is of enormous geopolitical and geostrategic value to Russia.
Stop with the ridiculous moralizing. Yes, it is a tragedy that Syrians are dying. It’s neither the Russians fault nor is it their responsibility to prevent that from happening. Last I checked Syria is a sovereign state, not a vassal of Russia. Syria is responsible for the safety of Syrians.
Even if they had the means and ability, I still wouldn’t want them to do this typical imperial behavior, it always leads to suffering under false goals of morality. “White man’s burden.”
Exactly! The notion that nations ought to selfishly ride to the rescue of other nations, risking their own security & resources in the process, is a myth crafted by Western imperialists as cover for their invasions, occupations, lootings, & pillaging. That so many people expect Russia to do what the US, Britain, & France pretend to do is indicative of the widespread imperialist brainwashing even among those opposed to Western & Zionist imperialism. Russia & Syria share the strategic objective of defeating Wahhabi/Salafi militants & thinning the global herd of these imperialist battering rams. Russia knows that if Syria falls, Iran & itself are next on the “menu.” Russia shares a historical affinity with Syria, & wants to see a stable, healthy Syrian state. But, this expectation that Russia sacrifice herself for Syria &/or take unnecessary risks which might lead to the outbreak of a military WWIII it is not ready to fight, is simply a projection of Western imperialist myths onto expectations of Russia.
That was a trade-off. Russia withheld the S-300 and Israel generously agreed to not shell Syrian troops as they fought to regain their own land, from Israeli supported terrorists at that!
Then, Israel screwed up, used the IL-20 as cover, then lied about it.
Russia changed course accordingly and allowed Syria to install the S-300 systems.
We have no way of knowing if they were angry or not. They did not tell us.
Russia is in Syria at Syria’s request to fight terrorists. Terrorists threaten Russia’s security, a destabilized Syria threatens Russia’s security, and a destabilized Syria diminishes the economic potential of the New Silk Road. Therefore, Russia aids in the fight against Syria.
Israel is at war with Syria. Why? I do not know. Probably some sort of nationwide narcissistic deficiency. So Israel launch raids against Syria. Russia has not taken a side in this conflict because it would require UNSC approval to enter a war on one side or the other, and be completely ‘legal’ in terms on international law. Ergo, Russia permitted Israel to attack Syria, not because it is right, but because to interfere would be outside their mandate.
However, Israel screwed up and attacked Russian forces, albeit indirectly by using the S-200 as the weapon, by telling Russian air control a lie, and by using the IL-20 as a human shield. So now, Israel has attacked Russia and Russia responds by increasing its defensive position. That it does so by enhancing Syrian air defense is just a minor complication that Israel will have to live with from now on.
“That was a trade-off. Russia withheld the S-300 and Israel generously agreed to not shell Syrian troops as they fought to regain their own land, from Israeli supported terrorists at that!”
What was the trade off calculation when the Russians agreed the S400 (etc) contract with the Saudi Wahhabi/Salafis?
History will remember Putin’s Russia as a defender of the weak and the innocent, who simply used the Truth as their greatest ally. America, on the other hand, will be remembered as a country who blatantly supported international terrorism for their own selfish, petty and vain purposes, who staged chemical weapons attacks to have an excuse to bomb innocent people, and who used Lies to get their way in every circumstance.
Wow, extremely painful viewing for the RF radar crew to watch the destruction of their comrades, all the more so when somebody they trusted betrayed them and the hapless 15 Ilyushin crew members. I don’t know how the general managed to keep his voice even during the briefing; he must have been seething inside.
And those experts at pedantry and pettifogging, the Talmudists, keep on insisting that they were not at fault, not realising that the more they open their mouths and deny their duplicity, the angrier RF MoD get. But trust the Israeli sense of superiority and arrogance to underestimate the Russians and take the RF military for fools.
Israel made a strategic blunder. Their ‘cleverness’ has resulted in a virtual no-fly zone over Syria for them and FUKUS. Their servants (including ISIS who’ve just lost their air force) must must be jumping for joy.
“when somebody they trusted betrayed them”
This will happen over and over and over when dealing with Anglo-Zion. If they are not convinced then they need to go back to the classroom and listen closely,
On 17 September 2018, at around 22 hrs (local time) a Russian military plane, Il-20, disappeared from the radar screens in the Mediterranean, approximately 35 km from the coasts of Syria. It returned to the air base of Hmeymim, with 14 people on board.
Re read the bolded text and temporarily forget all the propaganda with which we’ve been innundated.
THE SAKER: this is a mistranslation. The original French text says “Il retournait” which is “he was returning to” but some incompetant translator translated that in English as “It returned”.
It is time to consider the entire IL20 incident has been staged — perhaps jointly by the Russians and Israelis — for the purpose of introducing more advanced a/d systems; which will be nominally ‘Syrian’ but which are in fact 100% Russian controlled.
The purpose of the systems will be to counter NATO, not Israel, which is an ally of Russia and agrees Iranian influence in Syria be curtailed.
Israeli leadership understands the divide between the two main anglo deep state factions and will exploit these divisions alongside Russia when it suits their purposes. Israel may have been founded as a Rothschild State but it has slowly seperated itself from the mother oligarchy. Israelis want to be recognized as legitimate residents of the MER and so the Russian understanding of Israeli psychology has allowed for the brokering of agreements, including Donald Trump, to turn Israel into a legitimate and accepted state and people like any other.
The UK-Rothschild oligarchy, on the other hand, wants to keep Israelis dependent and subservient to the Anglo Zionist British Israel Colonial Project. Netanyahu has been wooed by Russia on this basis and honestly who can blame him for choosing his country over the Empire?
But still ouch.. I’ve never said anything good about Bibi before.
Do not be so proud of your ability to adopt the prevailing consensus.
It was not a machine translation but the same English version that’s been up for 13 days at Voltairenet. I see the Il retournait to which Saker refers, so I agree the French and English versions are different with lazy translation being the most but not only explanation for a contradiction — one which incidently remains uncorrected almost 2 weeks after it was published.
The Russian story is full of holes so I will indeed theorize. The responses by officials during crisis’ are psyops in any case, everyone reading anything-anywhere should get that by now. What did or did not happen over the eastern Med I don’t know but someone is obviously lying.
Will Russia strengthen or weaken it’s position in Syria after the IL20 ‘incident’?
Would Russia pull a Libya in Syria?
I see Russia’s recent agreement with the Sultan to effectively establish a Turkish terrorist protectorate as an agreement to buy time, in the spirit of Molotov-Ribbetrop, following the same path taken by the Soviets under Stalin bfore WW2. This is my best hope.
Meanwwhile the reported downing of an IL20 occurred only hours after the agreement between Putin and Erdogan was signed, which indeed bought Russia some time and delayed the start of the Russo-Syrian and Iranian offensive against Idlib.
The Turks have less than 30 days to bring their terrorists in Idlib under control according to the agreement that was made by Erdogan and Putin. Let’s see how the Russians use this time but let’s also not discount the possibility Atlanticists would jump at an opportunity to pull a Libya and trade Idlib for Crimea, freezing the situation in Syria as it was frozen in Cyprus in 1974 while simultaneously breathing new life into Erdogan’s Ottoman Dream.
If this sort of trade were to occurr, Idlib for Crimea, it would permanently destroy Russian credibility to the most terrible imaginable detriment of humanity.
So no, not “brilliant,” just unwilling to let anyone do my thinking for me lest this give the Golden Turkophile-Khazar Horde (including most prominently Dmitry Peskov) a free hand to sell Syrians, Palestinians or perhaps even me down the river of technocracy and fascism.
Wolf I will agree with you on one thing, this is some complicated chess being played. We mier ants simply do not have information to know what all the moves mean. We can intuit thus try and put the pieces of the puzzle together, but in the end we are just guessing.
It was realized in Israel quite some time ago that Israel must sacrifice Democracy in order to remain a Jewish State. Consequently, Israel is moving further away from being a “normal country”. For example, unlike “normal countries” Israeli Basic Law does not recognize minority group rights. This year, Arabic was dropped as an official language despite 20% of the population being Arabic speaking. As opposed to “normal” countries such as Canada, Belgium or Switzerland which allow multiple official languages.
There is no universal principal of equality under the law for all citizens as in “normal” countries. Only the Jewish People are recognized as having legitimate nationalist aspirations in Israel. This summer, Basic Law Nation State was revised to explicitly define Israel as a Jewish State. This enshrines Jewish privilege and legitimizes inequality relative to the Arab speaking Israeli population. These are Israeli citizens who happen to be Arab, not Gazans or the West Bank Palestinians who have no rights whatsoever. So I don’t see any evidence of any trend for Israel to become a “normal country”.
The Rothschilds are all over Israeli oil and gas development projects, by the way.
Well if were conjuring…
“perhaps jointly by the Russians and Israelis”
Perhaps the mark was the French frigate and the current knuckledragging Likud mobsters who ambitions never rise above the constant scheming to scare French Jews into emigrating.
Netanyahu has taken a beating, and is now out to collect support from the Jewish diaspora.
It looks like Netanyahu did not get support to more conflict from the French synagoge.
Notice that the Jews in the synagoge are singing the French Anthem, not the Israeli.
No stop in Germany.
Angela Merkel has enough trouble with the migrant crises in Germany. She dont need Netanyahu to create more trouble for her.
No stop in UK
Theresa May has enough trouble with brexit, and she dont need Netanyahu to create more trouble for her.
NO Stop in EU.
The EU has lately developed an appetite for Iranian Oil, and supports the Iran/Obama agrement on nuclear weapons.
Netanyahus crie for war will be absolutely rejected by the majority of the European population.
Next stop USA.
Netanyahu will get support from the Jewish mafia in the US.
But the real America will keep Trump from supporting Israel, and thus escalating the conflict.
Considering the US lead wars during the last 4 Presidents, it will be political suicide for Trump to beat the drums for more war, right befor a midterm election.
The IL-20 shoot down may cost Netanyahu his seat as Prime Minister of Israel.
I am generally open to anything…..but you would have to back this up with something substantial.
Often people are either to naive/ignorant about what the governments are doing and planning behind closed doors or they are so skeptical that they go sometimes too wild with ideas and complicated theories. Often the truth is in the middle.
The governments mainly try to work in their own interests, with corrupt and divided ones often not doing such a good job taking care of their country’s interests in the long term. When the country is powerful enough, this corruption can be regionally or even globally very dangerous.
‘Il retournait’ can be translated as ‘it returned’. That’s not a wrong translation. But in this context the author meant ‘he was returning’. In French ‘il retournait’ can also mean the proces of returning.
W-w,
I would venture to say that this was not an error, as some posters suggest, but deliberate dis-info to totally change the meaning of the original text, as Saker points out.
No matter that Syrian S 200 systems may not be integrated with Russian S 400 systems, a Common red Code Alert (meaning abort, abort … abort everything) must be established between Russian and Syrian systems to avoid any friendly fire in the future.
Adding S 300 systems complicates significantly the situation, and creating a common abort code is imperative.
To WhereWollf
Incompetent translator, you’re right Saker. Incompetent, not dishonest (his name being all over the place by the way) like your posting seems to be just ignoring all the rest of the translation, that explicitly recognizes the downing of the plane more than one time.
The problem with recent Voltairenet articles is not about the downing itself, but about the way Meyssan’s journal consider the downing of the Iliouchine 20 as a coordinated part in a bigger Lattakia “joint” operation, conducted by GB, France, and Idf. Voltairenet article is short, as often; at the same time, I am not used to take slightly any specific mention of France in their site. So the question is to understand to which point analyses of the IL20 downing as a bilateral Moscow-Telaviv are valid, instead of looking at it right away as a blunt nato attack.
Hollander, Israel is an integral part of NATZO _de facto_ though (with typical Israeli duplicity) not _de jure_. Israel pretends to be not in NATZO but has a billion dollar contract to repair NATZO tanks of Turkey, takes part in NATZO exercises, arms and hospitalizes NATZO’s terrorists and is a major actor in NATZO’s seven year failed attempt to destroy Syria. The downing of IL-20 was a combined F UK Z U$ setup, with F UK U$ as collaborators and Israel as the executioner.
“Israel does not allow its military to serve under foreign command.”
Actually, it was nato operating under israel, with israel exercising full command and taking the lead, with nato operating as support, and probably backup.
This is different than previous against Syria, where nato did the bidding of a very much behind the scenes israel, and israel, when they did act publicly, did so without publicly visible nato collaboration. Both were careful about presenting a public view that they operated separately. Not this time, though. Quite clear it was israel calling the shots with nato following orders.
This is likely why the Russian MoD didn’t waste time on the roles of the nato assets supporting this op. The Russians addressed the people in command instead.
This is part of what I was pointing out further down the thread earlier. The israelis are breaking cover and openly threatening the Russians. Something they have been very careful not to do themselves, they had their colonials do it instead. Major change from before, and appears from desperation as Syria mop up israel’s remaining terrorists. Expect much worse from the zionazi-gay freakshow as their
“Major change from before, and appears from desperation as Syria mop up israel’s remaining terrorists.”
And thus ending a direct means to keep attacking Syria. Assad regain full control of his country means wasted money to the Anglo-Zionists.
Possible VT but there is no evidence for the involvement of NATO in this incident. The early report of missile launches by the French have never been confirmed and was more likely a misinterpretation of the actions of other Israeli assets involved, such as Dolphin subs. The US government has also denied involvement. All the world’s evils are not caused by NATO. NATO has more than their fair share of atrocities to answer for. But in this instance I prefer to keep the focus on Israel as did Shoigu.
“but there is no evidence for the involvement of NATO in this incident.”
The preplacement of the french frigate is your definitive evidence. There were also mention of uk and us aircraft flying in the general area. The latter being unconfirmed and not particularly solid info, so their roles are not worth speculating on, yet.
The french vessel was there as part of the mission beyond any doubts, though. At least 2 roles it played was gathering intel on the Syria/Russian response to the israeli op, and sowing fow confusion.
But as I pointed out, the israelis were/are still in charge and whatever roles nato performed was under israeli command and control.
Have we forgotten so quickly that NATO was preparing to attack Syria after charging the government with chemical weapons use? France had already stated their intent to participate in this attack. I don’t find anything mysterious about French or other NATO military assets happening to be in the area. Again, NATO has more than enough crimes to answer for. This simply confuses Israeli culpability in this incident.
Sure, but that’s not the same as actually putting Jewish lives at risk. Have Israeli forces ever actively participated in an actual NATO military operation or not? Has Israel ever taken casualties in such a mission? I don’t know of any such instances.
You think the Israelis missed the opportunity to join in the massive air attacks on Saddam?
They simply repainted the jets with US colors or French and fly.
Everyone who wanted Saddam out was in on the two aerial wars against Iraq.
They would not have abstained for the opportunity to gain more combat experience nor the chance to inflict hell on the Iraqis.
Maybe you believe the IDF never flew against Saddam, except for taking out his nuclear facility.
The Iraqi Scud missiles killed 74 Israelis in 1991. You can be certain they hit back. The “record” and “propaganda” was that they stayed out of the war.
And they flew along with the thousands of other sorties packaged by the US Command.
To think and believe otherwise is to not know Israel’s history in wars and acts of revenge.
No need or advantage for IDF participation in either Gulf war. If you have a credible link, please post. Your numbers are a bit off too, see, for example,
Over 100,000 sorties, 2000 per day, and you think Israelis weren’t in jets attacking Saddam?
You believe in unicorns, too?
There are copious Israeli-US pilots and planes with fast paint jobs.
That was such a free-for-all bombing regime for 50+ days that everyone who still had a valid license to fly from anywhere got a chance to fly a sortie or two.
All the news covered the facts because of the “Arab sensitivity”. Believe what you want.
Pilots were waiting in line for jets to refuel and rearm. It was a freebee war, shooting apples in a barrel.
Exactly !!! They need constant practice to be ready for the next USS Liberty. The last time they did not do a good job. They tell us that some of the pilots resisted but I will never believe anything they say and neither do the veterans of that incident.
This comment is just to point out that France did not participate in the Iraq attack.
Coincidently that year a trend raised in Hollywood, call french people gay, traitors and cowards.
Regarding the Israelis bombing of the Syrian Targets, this is a routine process based on a agreement between Russia and Israel.
According to the Russian’s ” (real-time) radar airspace picture, and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS), in my personal opinion all 3 parties are responsible for this tragic fatal incident.
Syrians are at least 50 % responsible for firing the missile without Identifying Friend or Foe the intended target.
Israelis are 25% responsible using IL-20 as a shield, assuming that Syrians would hold the fire.
Russian are 25% responsible, for not training Assad’s troops to a better level of competence.
Russia might have to take additional actions such as improving the Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) systems on both Russian and Syrian operated systems. In addition, Moscow may have to invest more in training Assad’s troops to a better level of competence to ensure that such an incident is not repeated.
Ultimately, the real culprit for the downing of the Il-20 is the incompetence and lack of professionalism among the Syrian forces.
“Let’s call a spade a spade, not a gardening tool”
“Syrians are at least 50 % responsible for firing the missile without Identifying Friend or Foe the intended target.”
Can’t read, eh?
The Syrians fires at an Israeli (x4) aircraft attacking a Syrian warehouse. The Russian plan was hit due to a sneaky maneuver ‘hiding’ an Israeli jet in the radar shadow of the Russian plane. The lack of ‘friendly’ identification communication between Russian plane and already fired S200 missile is a shared responsibility between Russia and Syria … and to some extent Israel due to its continued pressure to limit the use of more modern S300 equipment (already purchased) by Syria.
The only added information in the Russian MOD announcement includes the new improved “central control” aspects which suggest that an entirely 100% ‘Russian safe’ chain of command did not previously exist in the Syrian air defense domain. It also subtly implies Russian staff will be at all Syrian S300 defense installations etc — i.e., proceed with extreme caution lest another batch of Russians are cremated in uniform.
How convenient that for you, the Israeli’s are only 25% responsible, even though they only gave the Russians *one minute* warning, they Lied about the area of operations, and the radar data clearly shows the F-16 fighter pilot using the IL-20 as a shield.
I think to the actual Russians, Israel is about 95% responsible for this incident. As based on their statements. And I don’t think the Russian Military cares too much for the opinions of us armchair generals.
That’s why I don’t jump very fast to impugn the motives of every commenter that makes an error in judgment. It is better to have more laymen trying to engage the mind in these things outside of one’s expertise…..and learn by error that won’t cost much…… than to have them just tuning it all out for the PTB to handle with an unquestioning public not even paying much of any attention to any of it.
When a media source or government deliberately errs (lies) that is more worthy of impugning the integrity of such a source, which has a far greater capacity to know and communicate the facts, but won’t convey those facts.
jiri, Let’s call a spade a spade: Israel lost that privilege because Israel abused it with a premeditated act of cold blooded treachery toward the very country which had given it to them. By no means did Russia “withdraw a privilege for no reason at all”.
Some sickos give another group of sickos such privilege and bitterly complain when this 2nd bunch of sickos do exactly what one would expect from such a bunch of sickos.
And then, 90% of comments here bitterly complain that the first bunch of sickos have been hammered even though, by agreement, customarily watching the 2nd bunch of sickos pulverising the Syrians.
Syrians are 50%…
Russians are 25%…
Israelis are 25% …. responsible?
That what you said huh? More … Russia/Syria fault than sovereignty violating Israel’s?
Well, looks like the Russians agree with you – they’re making damn sure it doesn’t happen again by upgrading the systems the Syrians use to one that won’t make that mistake again.
Has it crossed your mind that the Israelis are 100% responsible because they were breaking international law and norms by being there and striking a sovereign state? Had they not been showing off their WAR CRIMINAL skills none of this would have happened: The IL-20 would still be flying, the 15 servicemen would still be alive and Syria would still be stuck with the S-200.
if the Israelis had never been afforded such Russian “privileges” (attacking Syria with impunity) you can be sure the Russians would have been screaming “abort” to the Syrian S200 batteries the first time an F16 came within 20 miles of the IL-20. A blind man on a galloping horse could have predicted the outcome.
The Russian servicemen paid the ultimate price for the duplicitous schemes of their “patriotic” masters. The Israeli’s may have done it but it was enabled by the Russians at the highest level.
The story we are being told stinks to high heaven.
Having grumbled in a previous thread about the ‘M. Ali vs G. Foreman rumble in the jungle’ metaphor I now believe, after considering the measured and sober response by Putin and Russia’s MOD, that Round 8 has just all but concluded.
All but the organ-eater mop up in norther Syria — with enough warning and delay for the usual suspects to evacuate their pet protagonists — is left with the USA going into its ‘mid-term’ session of election madness.
Israel is effectively declawed and de-fanged in respect to Syria (and perhaps even Lebanon) unless it wants a more active Egypt on its backside (e.g., via Gaza) and a UN-Russian S400 peacekeeping force in the disputed Golan Heights to maintain an ‘anti-hot head’ equilibrium between Iran and Israeli actors — at least in respect to the air domain.
We are now seeing -as should have been anticipated – the US Israeli-firsters weighing in on behalf of Israel, in regards to the downing of the Russian IL-20, on September 17.
Those of us with an appreciation of history will know that the American officials and politicians have no shame or honor, when it comes to matters relating to Israel.
They will not hesitate, not even for a moment, in siding with Israel, even if it means going against their own country or fellow citizens.
Yesterday I pointed out that if Israel had done the same exact thing to the US – or any other Western country, for that matter – the incident would be promptly hushed up and Israel absolved of any blame.
The Pentagon, or no US president would ever dare release a negative report about Israel, no matter how truthful it might be.
American officials long ago prostituted and forward sold their honor, independence, and dignity to zionist money-men, and as such when they see a country like Russia stand firm and hold Israel to account, it puts them to shame.
Please bear in mind that no American official can speak negatively of Israel and retain his or her job with any US government agency or department.
America exists to do Israel’s bidding.
Everything else is secondary.
Those who doubt this must go and speak to the survivors of Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967.
Dont be surprised if you hear AIPAC minions in the US Congress propose that sanctions be slapped on Russia, for placing S-300s in Syria.
More warmongering statements from the ‘chosen people’ tonight….
Updated 5:41 PM EDT —
Israel warned Russia it will destroy Hmeimim Air base if Israeli Military jets trying to Bomb Syria are harmed by Russian s-300’s, Israeli military analyst Ron Ben-Yishai says.
THAT is what prompted the Russians to impose a full ‘NO-FLY” Zone over Latakia, Syria today!
UPDATE 5:52 PM EDT —
(This is getting out-of-hand very fast . . . .)
The Israeli Air Force said that “In terms of both quality and quantity, it could easily defeat the Russian Air Force and send missiles to Hmeimim air base in such quantity that the S-400 or Pantsir-S1 could not defend against them.”
The IDF also said “Even with the advantage of on-site forces, Israeli commandos could invade the Hmeimim base and wipe out Russian air defense complexes to make it easier for fighter jets to operate.”
2 USAF B-2 stealth bombers have taken off from Hickam AFB. We note the ‘DEATH’ callsigns.
UPDATE 6:16 PM EDT —
Another RuAF IL-76 has just landed at Khmeimim AFB in Syria after flying from Russia. Carrying more S-300 battery components for the Syrian Air Defence Forces
UPDATE 6:51 PM EDT —
Russian defense minister Shoigu reacts also against US movements in Syria: “Delivery of #Russia’s S300 to Syria will also stop Western coalition from carrying out uncontrolled attacks on Syrian territory”
The only place I could find your “UPDATES” was Hal Turner, citing nothing.
As good ol’ Hal ain’t the most reliable source, I’m wondering if you’ve got any others.
The Israeli response to causing the deaths of 15 Russian servicemen is to threaten to kill more Russian servicemen?
Wow – sounds like they’ve lost what’s left of their tiny sod-cutting minds!
Israel’s entire army might well be larger than the Russian force at any one base in Syria – but it’s not larger than the Russian army.
Quick response to the video (still at work – these wonderful 9am-1am post raygun regime workdays in pindoland).
First, RT should lose the unprofessional newscaster who confused just about everything.
Second, the israeli f-16 had already shot their wad, they’re hanging about after, shown in the MoD presentation, is uncharacteristic. Usually they fire off their munitions and then make a run for it.
Third, sending the in the lone f-16 to escort the Il-20 again. What’s the purpose, he already shot his wad and was unarmed?
My guess is the israelis specifically wanted the Russian aircraft to be hit by Syrian AA. The first attempt at it failed during the actual israeli attack, the 4 f-16s hanging anout to see if the Russian plane got mistakenly hit.
It didn’t, so they detached the 1 f-16 from the group to close, as if making another attack run, to entice the Syrians to fire another round of SAA missiles. They did, and that lone israeli f-16 lured the S-200 missile onto the Il-20.
Very specific operation, pre-planned, highly coordinated with the usa/nato colonies and part of a larger set strategy. Most probably predating the Russian/Syrian/Turk Idlib agreement.
Exactly what was the zionazi-gay purpose I’m not sure, there are multiple choices here, but the way the israelis are sticking to their propaganda bs line convinces me that this sleight of hand was intended to piss off the Russians big time. And that the israelis want this.
Further evidence of this while the Russians have been offering the israelis a backdoor out of it being a local failure of cowardly israeli pilots taking advantage of the Il-20 to escape the Syrian AD, the israelis, who could easily claim it was a failure of local command, make good publicly, and return to the previous status quo, keep pushing the same propaganda.
Obviously, the israeli propaganda is part of a larger israeli strategy, that includes worsening relations with Russia, while at the same time making a Russia-israeli clash more acceptable, and expected, to the western zomb…, public. IE: the zpc/nwo are very much determined to keep their war against Syria going and much more.
This reminds me of that old cartoon of Ukraine throwing itself head first against Russia in order to bruise Russia. Israel’s goals end where Russia’s security begins.
We are seeing, not ploys within ploys here, but incompetence piled on incompetence. Like the Cheshire Cat and his smile, all that Israel has left is its arrogance. Its capabilities will fail against Russia.
I do agree with you that Israel has all kinds of plans. But what it thinks doesn’t matter.
And they continue to have their heads in the sand and their bottoms in the air – they carry on as if everything is fine between Russia and Israel – psychopathic arrogance.
Making a point (misguided) about their view on Syria, why else choose to loiter, approach the one aerial platform, with expertise onboard that was actively monitoring the terrorists over Idlib. They were an important intel link in finding out out the fake CW ops.
Staged yes.
I’ve come to the same conclusion. The Israeli strike was all too nicely set up, the Russian MoD have communicated enough to highlight the inconsistencies & question the Israeli narrative. Now Tel Aviv hasbaras are full speed amplifiying the counter message. They are keeping to the script that this tweet from IDF on the 18th: (still up)
“2. When the Syrian Army launched the missiles that hit the Russian plane, IAF jets were already within Israeli airspace.
3. During the strike against the target in Latakia, the Russian plane that was then hit was not within the area of the operation.”
I hope the usual Zionist deception has, for once, blown in their faces. So instead of 4D chess we’re just witnessing more murderous games (euphemistically known as chutzpah or reckless audacity). They wanted to drive a wedge between Syria and Russia and it failed…
However you do induce a sinking feeling that there may be more to this than meets our eyes. The Israelis must have known that the Russians would know. Yet the Israelis are sticking to their propaganda, i.e it was Syria; it was because of Iran; it is the threat of Hezbollah.
Perhaps the Israelis took the risk that Russian protests would not leak into the Zionist controlled Western media, and that’s all that counts really — not the truth, but the perceptions of the manipulated Western audiences. So in that sense, yes indeed we’re witnessing unbridled chutzpah in terms of the propaganda management. If this is the case.
The Israelis have gotten so used to the practise of pissing all over the US and other Western countries, and always getting away with it, that now that Russia has decided to reprimand them publicly for this cowardly and treacherous crime, they are apoplectic with shock.
For them its like:
“How dare Russia speak to us like this?”
Dont they know that we are entitled to bomb, and kill, and destroy anything and anyone, anywhere we choose, at anytime?”
“Dont they?”!!!!!!!
Unimpressed, and still seething with anger, Shoigu and the entire brass of the Russian MOD respond in unison with an emphatic:
As an American (some of my people got here close to 400 years ago) I am ashamed and disheartened by the methodical way the Neocons, the MIC, and the Banksters are dismantling my country with micro-betrayals on a daily basis.
At the same time, I watch with hope as VVP and other loyal Russians position that great nation for world ascendency. The hope I feel is for civilized humanity, and for those young people of my country smart enough to learn Russian and to seek to emigrate.
My country will never fall to an enemy. It will collapse under the weight of its own hubris.
Israel and Zionists, who have used an abused us for almost one hundred years, are unable to see that they have become worse than superfluous, they have become an unsustainable nuisance.
Saleh
I think the actions of Zion was deliberate and was design to instill deep shame in the Russians, and thereby giving them greater leverage over the Russian leadership. But, it did not come off just right.
If you remember when Shoigu visited Israel, Nutty attacked Syria on that same day, and got an invite to Victory Day as a “reward”. When President Xi visited Trump in Florida, the US attacked Syria (during the Chocolate Cake) and Trump got deals for his kids in China ,and a state visit to Beijing as “reward.”
Even when Nutty was at the Victory Day parade, the Zionist attacked Syria, and maybe got the Iran/Hebollah ejected for the borderlands, and Russians searching for their dead.
A man may beat his wife and , in the short-run she will make excuses for him, and try even harder to please him, because she is deluded to think this will stop the beatings. It is a psychological trap—the beatings only get worse.
Israel tried to make Russian into an abuse spouse (just like the Americans), but it takes time to create a “doormat”, and it was too soon to have worked on the Russians military.
The Israelis were not concern about their LIES, they were expecting the Russians to fully participate in the victimization/murder of their service personnel out of “shame”—and, to adopted the “tale” the Zionists were gleefully advancing, with tongue in cheek.
After all–look how many times the Russians reached out to them (over 300), and they only called 25 times—does this remind anyone of abusive relationships where one person is trying way too hard.
And, the Israelis did initially have some success in the statement put out by VVP at the onset. But the Russian political leadership soon had to play catch-up to the military leadership who were having none of it.
They were livid (as we all were), and they called a spade a spade, and the political leaders had to act.
A Russian (pro VVP) told me a couple of years ago, that Russian has over a million Navalny(s) living in Israel, and I am sure that goes in part for the government and business community too. It is gratifying to see the Russian Military standing tall in this incident.
Banksters Schiff, Harriman, Kuhn, Loeb, Rothschild, Warburg Et Al (“Ash Can Nazi Jews” [ACNJ]) thought Israel was to be Earth’s one world dictatorial point of “government”. The human slavery energy — to serve the jackals and their pinheaded minions — were to be culled. 90% or thereabouts of the “bewildered herd” to market slaughter, thus the goyim didn’t pose an uncontrollable problem. The element of the subtle unknown clearly has decided to disagree with the coo coo chosenites. In a word, jubilee.
ACNJ has after many centuries (beginning in 16?!) “checkmate!” In another word, hallelujah!
I do NOT think this move has been “staged“, as an illustrious commenter has suggested,above.
I do not think that the Russian leadership is collaborating with the enemies of humanity, even a short-term deal to gain the preponderance of the leverage to enable Russia ‘coming out on top’ in the confrontation, being fabricated on the side of the empire.
The history of collaborators with the enemies of humanity is 100% certain, based on the historical evidence.
Also, we are already too close to an endgame with a wretched psychopathy that would see the entire world burn if they couldn’t dominate it all.
Even for a short term collaboration, I am very confident that a student of history like Putin, allied to a strong mind, would not enter into cahoots with this entity.
I think the move in Syria is upon a very strong rational and logical foundation. Always pushing it, ready to fall back on complete dominance of the mainstream media to ‘write the history the way that suits them best’.
Only Russia has already foreseen this kind of a move.
Attention is being brought to the theft-based occupational entity in the process of committing premeditated genocide against an indigenous population, the viral hits of the Russian de-briefings, showing with evidence, precise details, countering the vague, even weak attacks on the Russian integrity, drawing upon these years of brainwashing about the ridiculous anti-Russian propaganda; but I don’t think its working. They keep on saying ridiculous, even pathetic narratives; people have heard it all before, and have been developing a partial immunity to this formula of toxin.
My prediction, the more bombastic the enemies of humanity get, which they most certainly will, the Russian MoD, who have clearly taken the ‘prime’ agency in this operation, will present ever, and ever more damning facts on the ground in the middle east theatre, and specifically on the obsessive kleptomaniacs.
This is what I believe is going to happen.
People will see the hysteria,and notice the leavers being pushed all over the place, it will not be stealthy; it will be blatant, even to a zombie!
I hope, because it is difficult to see how far this can go, and anything that far is unstable.
Being called their bluffs is, more than anything else, guaranteed to get the perennial sphincter-clenching world champions apoplectic, and out-of-control.
yeah, i know what you actually mean,it must be ,”the dark nights of soul ” for the hot headed uncivilised fear mongers and war protagonists. Wonder how they gonna perform for their sleeping folks ,whom they had”led” till now like for 60 years or more,the voodoo magic of ”chosen ones” aint working as it used to.Dangerous time indeed for the uncivilised tribe,but like a wounded animal which bites itself,”regime change” play might boomerang,after all there is no honour among the uncivilised….your prediction, that this is just the beginning is blowing in the wind, fiercely.
The zio-project’s only got a likely life span of 120 years.
We are over the 50% mark already.
Dreams will become nightmares, will become distant memories, will become forgotten myths.
I am BITTERLY DISSAPOINTED that Mr Putin did not take the hint/chance to showcase s500
If the Israelist does not collar their zionist… Is it NOT time to return the land to the rightful people?!
Nomads (and moderate rebels) are not suppose to have lands… agree?
Why would Russia deploy the S-500?
To have one (with all its software) fall into the hands of the Americans and/ Israelis?
They (Yanks ‘n Ysiraelis) would like that….)
Helmer’s article tries to show discord where there isn’t any.
What was Putin supposed to tell Bibi? Badmouth him and swear at him? The Russian military announcements had already called the Israelis uncivilised, treacherous, and unworthy to be trusted. No point in Putin repeating the same.
I think Helmer’s on the money. Putin’s been sidelined in dealing with Syria, and there are many who would say “Finally”.
The fact speak for themselves:
– Shoigu blames IL
– Putin contradicts him, and talks about “tragic errors”
– Konashenko shows that there’s no errors. The take down was clearly planned.
– A meeting is held on Sunday by what Helmer calls the Stavka (War Cabinet)
– On Monday, Shoigu contradicts Putin’s long held positions, and announces “play time is over”.
– Putin stays publicly silent.
Any political calculus will tell you that Putin has been persuaded/overruled by Russia’s security apparatus. The Generals will now run the Syrian theatre.
Agree fully with you. More over MOD revealed very sensitive information like non-coordinated 175 Israeli air attacks in Syria and Iran + proxies being removed 120km from Golan Heights in collaboration with Russian efforts. Those thing are supposed to be non-public. Seems to me MOD is telling Putin that Russia did everything to please Israel but enough is enough, now we are taking charge of military affairs. This is my reading. We will see how things will develop from this point on.
The Globalists whom were in control of the Russian army on 1993 are still in total control, and they are more sophisticated than ever NOW.
The constitutional crisis of 1993 was a political stand-off between the Russian president Boris Yeltsin and the Russian parliament that was resolved by using military force. The relations between the president and the parliament had been deteriorating for some time. The constitutional crisis reached a tipping point on September 21, 1993, when President Yeltsin aimed to dissolve the country’s legislature (the Congress of People’s Deputies and its Supreme Soviet), although the president did not have the power to dissolve the parliament according to the constitution.
Yeltsin used the results of the referendum of April 1993 to justify his actions. In response, the parliament declared that the president’s decision was null and void, impeached Yeltsin and proclaimed vice president Aleksandr Rutskoy to be acting president.
The situation deteriorated at the beginning of October. On October 3, demonstrators removed police cordons around the parliament and, urged by their leaders, took over the Mayor’s offices and tried to storm the Ostankino television center. The army, which had initially declared its neutrality, stormed the Supreme Soviet building in the early morning hours of October 4 by Yeltsin’s order, and arrested the leaders of the resistance.
The ten-day conflict became the deadliest single event of street fighting in Moscow’s history since the Russian Revolution. According to government estimates, 187 people were killed and 437 wounded, while estimates from non-governmental sources put the death toll at as high as 2,000.
Please NOTE:
“{The army, which had initially declared its neutrality, stormed the Supreme Soviet building in the early morning hours of October 4 by Yeltsin’s order, and arrested the leaders of the resistance”}.
1 – The army stormed the Supreme Soviet building in the early morning hours of October 4 by Yeltsin’s order, and arrested the leaders of the resistance.
2 – Gorbachev and Yeltsin were NWO sleeping agents activated on 1985 and 1991.
3 – They were not alone they had supporters able to control the Russian elite. Name them 5th column, Jewish or whatever.
4 -Judge them by the deeds not by the words.
What did Jesus mean by “you will know them by their fruit?”
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits,” (Matthew 7:15-20). https://carm.org/you-will-know-them-by-their-fruit
5- On 1993 globalists fixed the Region #5 Russia, and Russia now, is in the NWO Tracks.
Since then they control Finance, Economy, Media and Rulers of Russia, and their grip over Army is tightened not released.
The Globalists whom were in control of the Russian army on 1993 are still in total control and they are more sophisticated than ever NOW.
I sense a power shift is underway. If, as many allege, Putin is soft on Israel, then Sergei Shoigu has apparently put his foot down and asserted that he will define the military strategy while Putin looks after the diplomatic strategy.
The Israel killers just pushed too far and created a game change and things might look mighty different for a while. I suspect an exit for Netanyahu is on the horizon in the near term.
Putin used to look tough, many cut him plenty of slack to keep it under control and focused on the erasure of the jihadis. His recent ‘deal’ with Erdogan left a little to be desired but would need a bayonet at Erdogan’s arse to keep him in line. Doable, yes, but I thought it would drive the Russian army crazy to be seen to be in line with this treacherous dog’s tricks in Idlib. Enter Sergei Shoigu and maybe people now will realise that Russia’s first offer is usually its best offer.
Time will tell. But it is a good look to see S-300’s installed on the western front. Just erase the jihadis and let none escape.
Note to commentator … Please stop being sophomoric with your pejorative names for Israel, Netanyahu and Erdogan I have changed … next time will go to trash… mod
The changes are irreversible, and the chances to be reversed by another Revolution are slim, or None.
Russian Revolution was finalized on October 24–25 (November 6–7, 1917).
The Bolsheviks and Left Socialist Revolutionaries staged a nearly bloodless coup; occupying government buildings, telegraph stations, and other strategic points.
Kerensky’s attempt to organize resistance proved futile, and he fled the country.
The Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets, which convened in Petrograd simultaneously with the coup, approved the formation of a new government composed mainly of Bolshevik commissars.
A 5 years long bloody war (1917 – 1922), known as Russian Civil War, between the two largest combatant groups the Red Army, fighting for the Bolshevik form of socialism led by Vladimir Lenin, and the loosely allied forces known as the White Army, which included diverse interests favoring political monarchism, economic capitalism and alternative forms of socialism, was decisive for defeating the Monarchism and establishing Socialism in USSR.
The suffering and bloody price was enormous, but the result was a superpower named USSR, that defeated Nazis and rivaled the West for more than 45 years (Cold War). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War
Russian counter-revolution started on 1991 and was finalized on October 4, 1993, 76 years after the Russian revolution.
The consequences was horrible for the Russia, that lost half of industry, territories and population, but the consequences were more horrible for Russian population, with a significant shrink of population.
In the seventeen years between 1992 and 2009, the Russian population declined by almost seven million people, or nearly 5 percent—a rate of loss unheard of in Europe since World War II.
“We will continue to act to prevent Iranian military entrenchment in Syria and we will continue the military coordination between the IDF (Israel Defence Forces) and the Russian army. I have reached an agreement with President Putin that working groups … will meet soon to achieve this goal,” Netanyahu told reporters on Tuesday.”
A few days ago I wrote similar stuff intuitively here in this blog. So others are also sensing some serious rift between Putin (Kremlin) and the MOD. What brought me to this conclusion was the highly contradicting statements from Putin versus MOD. Military opted to give a minute to minute detail of the incident after Putin has said that it was an “unfortunate chain of events”. Also MOD revealed very sensitive and confidential information during the briefing. One was that only 25 out of 200 attacks of Israel was reported to the Russian Military beforehand. Also the admission that Russia forced Iran and proxies to move away 120km from the Golan Heights was a huge revelation IMO. These things usually are never spoken publicly. As John Helmer stated in his article, the message of the briefing seems to me more towards Kremlin than anyone else. Moreover, Putin is nowhere to be seen (yet). No official announcement from Kremlin either. Fuels the suspicion that MOD is now in full control of military affairs. We will see how this situation will turn out.
How about his datcha. Can he not have some time off? Besides, he does not have to be in the spotlight all the time. Does Trump do that (spotlight)? Okay besides the tweets?
V. Putin sad immediately, in his first public reaction when he talked about tragic circumstances that statements of Russian Military have his full support. He just doesn’t do knee jerking. He patiently waited for research results and took time to think and consults with his team before official reaction. Once situation was clear, they came with a very effective and (for some) very painful measures. That all done in a calm, rational and dignified style. None of the theatral hysterics which became a norm in the west.
All the interpretations of Reuters, Times of Israel, ABC and such, are mere wishful thinking.
When the nasty stuff was going on in Ukraine, Putin always left it to the military experts to explain and elaborate on the false memes that were out in the western press. This is exactly like that.
I agree. There isn’t. The attempts to portray some sort of conlict between Putin/Lavrov and the Russian MoD are bog standard hostile psywar nonsense intended to cause dissention and confusion.
The reporter gets it wrong repeatedly. She said an Israel S-200 hit the IL-20 when it was a Syrian missile that hit the plane. Reporter is hot but obviously not too smart. LOL
The Russians are clearly angry over this incident and the response of 1) sending S-300s to the Syrian forces, 2) integrating the command and control systems more thoroughly, and 3) announcing an official policy of jamming all enemy aircraft and missiles over Syria and a portion of the Mediterranean clearly shows that Russia has had enough of Israeli meddling in Syria.
Make no mistake. Israeli jets will be shot down in the future and Israeli pilots will die. This is Russia’s revenge for the IL-20 attack – and it will be served cold as revenge should be.
“Sources in Moscow report the military’s loss of confidence in the Commander-in-Chief has not been seen in public since President Boris Yeltsin countermanded orders for Russian military aid to Serbia under NATO bombing between March and June 1999, dismissing Prime Minister Yevgeny Primakov on the US demand. ”
The Israelis plus their vassals just lifted the cloak off and activated the whole Russian defense system.its poised to destroy any offensive munition and its delivery system aimed at their S-300’s.Their hubris raised the stakes a million-fold.Based this on the observation that Russians will not let one of their top-notch A.D apparatus to be rubbished.The S-300 has to win.Its the only option.If S-300 were to falter ,i surmise that the likes of S-400 would kick in.S-300 appear to have morphed into a strategic weapon, thanks to Netanyahu.Defense-wise,Syria turning into a Russian Oblast.
@ Richard Steven Hack
“Make no mistake. Israeli jets will be shot down in the future and Israeli pilots will die. This is Russia’s revenge for the IL-20 attack – and it will be served cold as revenge should be.”
I hope you’re right, but time will tell.
Syria is involved in “cyclones eye” of geopolitical interests of NWO.
There is a technical part and Political part.
Politically it is crisp clear that Russia doesn’t have enough force economically and militarily to dictate in the Middle East.
Russia stays in Syria with an arm righted trying to avoid any direct confrontation with Israel.
It is crisp clear the fatal incident of IL-20 escalated the conflict in a higher level, and complicated things.
Can Russia shoot down US/ Israelis fighters?
Yes, they can do, because they have the technology.
Can Russia sink aircraft carriers?
Yes, they can do, because they have the technology?
Can Russia, liberate Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Nikolayev and Odessa?
Yes, they can do, because they have enough power and technology.
Can Russia start a nuclear war?
Yes, they can do with more than 7000 thermonuclear heads, delivered by ICBM?
But Russia isn’t doing that, because they have decided, and declared, “not to be the first to start WW3”.
Technically regarding IL-20 incident none of 3 involved parties (Israel, Syria, and Russia), none of them have clean hands.
Russia “privileged Israel” to violate the airspace of Syria and bomb Syria.
Russian S-400 was active and they knew everything was happening in a radius of 250 km (including IL-20).
Russian failed to send message “abort” to Syrian S-200 system, while IL-20 were at least 20km near Israelis F-16.
Syrians proved to be incompetent to run S-200 system. The locked the missile to a F-16 Foe target ignoring that a Friendly object IL-20 was at least 20km in vicinity of F-16. Ignoring that at the end the missile lock itself at the Nearer, Larger and Slower object.
Physically IL-20 was shoot down by a Russian made S-200 systems missile operated by Syrians.
Could Russian S-400 systems, active at the time of incident, be able to shoot down all 4 Israelis F-16, after IL-20 despaired of radar?
My answer is Yes.
Why they didn’t do it?
Please ask them why, before posting your comment as:
“Make no mistake. Israeli jets will be shot down in the future and Israeli pilots will die. This is Russia’s revenge for the IL-20 attack – and it will be served cold as revenge should be.”
“Why they didn’t do it?” Because this was the order.The assymetric way of Russians to lead with this kind of situation that in this I particularly disagree.
What did she say/happened at #9:15 of the video? Isreali’s shot the il20? stuttering… what was on that paper? And why did her ‘conclusions’ completely contradict the earlier snippet.
So with S 400 active, the Russian in Syria had “real-time” radar airspace picture and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS).
The 92N6E (or 92N2E) is a multi-functional radar with a 400-kilometre (250 mi) range which can track 100 targets.
Russian MoD makes statement: New evidence on Il-20 downing off Syrian coast, based on “real-time” radar airspace picture and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS).
There isn’t room for mistakes, or speculation, and as he said “a S-200 System missile downed IL-20”.
What she said at #9:15 it isn’t correct.
Be aware that S-400 system multi-functional radar with a 400-kilometre (250 mi) range can track 100 targets.
So Russian know in details not what happened to IL-20, but also what Israelis did during more than 50 minutes on the night of 9/17/18.
Be aware that in most cases the Israelis bomb Syria without “Violation” the Syrian air space launching “Guided Bombs” or missiles from international waters or Lebanon airspace.
A guided bomb can glide with ratio 1:7, so if launched from 10 km high it can travel 70km, and the missiles have a much longer range.
So a “non fly zone” over Syria airspace cannot stop Israel bombing anything in Syria from, Mediterranean Sea, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, or why not from US/ Kurds controlled East of Euphrates.
These are serious problems, between Russia’s Government, Russian Military, and Russian People.
They have to think twice before “privileging” Israel to bomb Syria, and continue the “partnership” with “colleagues” like Israel.
And here another one interesting comment of D. trump addressing un today, while discussing iran sanctions: ‘war will follow’ : 1:15:23 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nVE-WxFss4I)
(My deepest honours to the mods and saker, as this vineyard is the only place on the www i encountered where the discussion does elevate and often surpases the content itself. My #2 comment)
One thing is still not clear to me. I’ll go with the assumption that the the action of the lone Israeli F16 was following a pre-arranged script, but what information would have been available to the pilot? The Russians have said that civilian aircraft use some of the relevant airfields, hence could the Israeli pilot have known that a fighter/surveillance/civilian aircraft was available as a cover?
Now F-16 are equipped with The AN/APG-68 radar. It is a long range Pulse-doppler radar, range 296.32 km, 184 miles.
So the pilot can se anything day/night up to 184 miles far away.
The AN/APG-68 provided the Fighting Falcon several capability improvements that transformed its mission profile from daytime air-to-air to a more versatile all weather, multi-role fighter aircraft.
But wait:
America’s F-16 Fighters are Getting a New Radar (And Russia Is Partly to Blame)
The addition of the APG-83 greatly increases the F-16’s capabilities against increasingly sophisticated threats that include new enemy cruise missiles as well as evermore-capable adversary fighters such as the Sukhoi Su-35S Flanker-E . Compared to the F-16’s existing APG-68 mechanically scanned radar, the APG-83—which leverages technology from the F-35 ’s APG-81—can detect, track and identify greater numbers of targets much faster and at much longer ranges.
There’s been a lot said this week about the instrumentalities and externalities of war: S300s, the IL-22; tactical determinants perhaps. But not sea-level game-changers in and of themselves.
The most material development of the last week imo has been the subtle bifurcation we’re witnessing in the Russian response. We’ve digressed from the measured, univocal parsings of Putin and Lavrov to a stage shared by a more binary power center, Shoigu and the Stavka. Putin’s range of motion, his up-til-now broad latitude of response, has been curtailed. Without needing to pass judgment on the long-term efficacy of Putin’s absorb-then-counterstrike approach (or whether it’s a good cop/bad cop contrivance), the military-industrial faction at his back will insist, going forward, on less chess and more hammer.
The Statesman Approach has ceded turf, willingly or otherwise, to the War Cabinet.
Just as war is a secular trend’s final gesture after a series of progressively under-performing business cycles (each cycle hobbled increasingly by mounting, unaddressable debt), statesmanship runs its course.
A consensual or imposed power-sharing? We’ll probably never know. Putin sidelined? Too harsh. Let’s be deferential to VVP and call it a more collective response to future incitements. Nonetheless there is an unmistakable whiff of failure. Recourse to war is the ultimate failure of statesmanship.
At the same time, war’s arrival is as supernatural as it is inevitable. Despite all the retrospective dissections, it exceeds our ken to avert it; at best, we postpone it. Lincoln said it best in his 1865 Second Inaugural near the end of the American Civil War:
“On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil war. All dreaded it, all sought to avert it. While the inaugural address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, insurgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without war—seeking to dissolve the Union and divide effects by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish, and the war came.”
Human agency flatters itself by thinking it starts wars. Rather, wars arrive.
Having broached America, and with the indulgence of the mods, let me briefly touch upon the battle occurring stateside. For the American domestic climate has EVERYTHING to do with what’s transpiring on WW3’s formative fronts.
There is a Left Hand and Right Hand at play on the planet. They belong to the same anatomy despite great efforts taken to obscure their connectivity. Both are reaching their apogees with eerie simultaneity. A Babylonian mystery? Perhaps. The fact is the Syrian and NATO war theaters are being brought to a boil at precisely the same time the Deep State (really the Five Eyes transnational consortium of surveillance agencies that actively operate as one while maintaining the mirage of ‘cooperating’ national agencies) is under unprecedented attack and potential exposure.
The Trump Russian Collusion narrative is collapsing at calamitous speed, exposed for the whole-cloth fiction it is (I described this in a prior Saker outing a few months ago). Moreover MI6 and GCHQ are all over the backstage shadow-play. (Again, trying to avert the weeds) too many of the Collusion key players have Five Eyes credentials: Stefan Halper (CIA, MI6), Joe Mifsud (MI6), Chris Steele (MI6), Alexander Downer (ASIS, MI6), Robert Hannigan (GCHQ).
So, Trump (uncharacteristically) reversed himself, retracting his 9/17 declassification order demanding vast troves of FBI unredactions. Why? Because the request drew much bigger fish than the usual domestic adversaries, the recalcitrant bureaucrats of the so-called American Deep State. Among other things, the redactions are concealing material Five Eyes participation. Trump will seek his vengeance where it belongs: on the international stage and amongst America’s ‘steadfast allies’.
Australia and the UK leaders are likely to have collapsed in a heap at the prospect of the Trump ‘unredactions’. Suddenly Trump has been presented with a transnational raft of bullets and a slug of fresh leverage. The declassification trout hook drew a couple of whales. So it was retracted pending a more ambitious fishing expedition.
Think too of the ramifications of the following headline:
UK and Australian Governments Revealed as Central Players in Attempted Coup of US President.
What are the NATO implications alone?
And what countermeasures will pour forth to avoid/displace such a headline? America’s Dept of Justice/FBI participants in this attempted coup suddenly become parochial players in a burgeoning geopolitical tsunami of unprecedented magnitude. Faced with such abject exposure (not to mention cries of treason) Five Eyes has little choice but to unleash a diversionary countermeasure of similar scale. That would be WW3. Conclusion? The Russian shift is more than appropriate.
I have a question…..
If the Syrians fired the missile the brought down the Ilyushin – how come they fired only 1 missile at 4 Israeli jets? Why didn’t they fire a barrage of missiles?
If the US military and the Pentagon have any integrity left they will join with Russia and turn their guns on Israel and enforce the quarantine… And ask some serious questions about the USS Liberty etc. while they are at it.
..”..If the US military and the Pentagon have any integrity…..” ??? Well,they don’t ! They never had and never will.
“If the US military and the Pentagon have any integrity ”
Be serious !!!!
That will never happen. The US government is owned by Israel.
The Russian MOD are fuming – the fact that they have had to call another press conference and release radar data now to dispute the lies of the Israeli air force – shows how disgusted they are about these lies on the whereabouts of the F-16 (and threats to destroy the S300s). Fifteen of their colleagues died and those who caused their deaths still wont admit their part in those deaths. This isn’t looking good for the Israeli air-force/MOD. Just apologise – but hey they won’t will they! Their arrogant attitude and tactics will be their downfall.
They weren’t so angry when all the pre-approved bombs were raining on the SAA.
Touché !!!! But to be fair, they are following orders that come from above.
“Touché !!!! But to be fair…”
The Russian leadership weren’t so angry when all the pre-approved bombs were raining on the SAA.
The Russian leadership weren’t so angry when all the pre-approved bombs were raining on the SAA.
Good point but the Russians didn’t have an agreement with Israel not to bomb SAA, they had an agreement with the Israelis not to harm Russians, and vice versa. Now all bets are off.
The Russians may not be protecting the Syrians directly but there’s a very good chance that they’ll pass any info on any hostile moves.that come their way to the Syrians Why do you think the Israelis only informed them 10% of the time when they’re attacking Syria?
Basil
“Good point but the Russians didn’t have an agreement with Israel not to bomb SAA,”
No wonder they weren’t, previously, angry at all.
Who needs enemies when you have Russian allies.
What do you want them to do? Be the “world policeman” the US pretends to be? To fight against “injustice” and “protect the weak?” You do realize that 90% of Russia still looks like it’s stuck in the 19th century, right? They don’t have the means to protect anyone but themselves, which is what they are doing in Syria. They’re not there to prevent another Libya for “noble” reasons, but to prevent the enormous damage to Russia, should Syria fall. Syria is of enormous geopolitical and geostrategic value to Russia.
Stop with the ridiculous moralizing. Yes, it is a tragedy that Syrians are dying. It’s neither the Russians fault nor is it their responsibility to prevent that from happening. Last I checked Syria is a sovereign state, not a vassal of Russia. Syria is responsible for the safety of Syrians.
Even if they had the means and ability, I still wouldn’t want them to do this typical imperial behavior, it always leads to suffering under false goals of morality. “White man’s burden.”
Exactly! The notion that nations ought to selfishly ride to the rescue of other nations, risking their own security & resources in the process, is a myth crafted by Western imperialists as cover for their invasions, occupations, lootings, & pillaging. That so many people expect Russia to do what the US, Britain, & France pretend to do is indicative of the widespread imperialist brainwashing even among those opposed to Western & Zionist imperialism. Russia & Syria share the strategic objective of defeating Wahhabi/Salafi militants & thinning the global herd of these imperialist battering rams. Russia knows that if Syria falls, Iran & itself are next on the “menu.” Russia shares a historical affinity with Syria, & wants to see a stable, healthy Syrian state. But, this expectation that Russia sacrifice herself for Syria &/or take unnecessary risks which might lead to the outbreak of a military WWIII it is not ready to fight, is simply a projection of Western imperialist myths onto expectations of Russia.
“Russia & Syria share the strategic objective of defeating Wahhabi/Salafi militants & thinning the global herd of these imperialist battering rams.”
Is that why they reneged on the S300 contract from 2012.
That was a trade-off. Russia withheld the S-300 and Israel generously agreed to not shell Syrian troops as they fought to regain their own land, from Israeli supported terrorists at that!
Then, Israel screwed up, used the IL-20 as cover, then lied about it.
Russia changed course accordingly and allowed Syria to install the S-300 systems.
Anon,
Good try, but the S-300 is not against western mercs, as they do not have missiles and airplanes. It’s to protect against Israel.
We have no way of knowing if they were angry or not. They did not tell us.
Russia is in Syria at Syria’s request to fight terrorists. Terrorists threaten Russia’s security, a destabilized Syria threatens Russia’s security, and a destabilized Syria diminishes the economic potential of the New Silk Road. Therefore, Russia aids in the fight against Syria.
Israel is at war with Syria. Why? I do not know. Probably some sort of nationwide narcissistic deficiency. So Israel launch raids against Syria. Russia has not taken a side in this conflict because it would require UNSC approval to enter a war on one side or the other, and be completely ‘legal’ in terms on international law. Ergo, Russia permitted Israel to attack Syria, not because it is right, but because to interfere would be outside their mandate.
However, Israel screwed up and attacked Russian forces, albeit indirectly by using the S-200 as the weapon, by telling Russian air control a lie, and by using the IL-20 as a human shield. So now, Israel has attacked Russia and Russia responds by increasing its defensive position. That it does so by enhancing Syrian air defense is just a minor complication that Israel will have to live with from now on.
“That was a trade-off. Russia withheld the S-300 and Israel generously agreed to not shell Syrian troops as they fought to regain their own land, from Israeli supported terrorists at that!”
What was the trade off calculation when the Russians agreed the S400 (etc) contract with the Saudi Wahhabi/Salafis?
Good Point Anonymous !!!!!!!
Thanks for pointing this out.
What’s that sound that I hear?
The sound of Putin saying *checkmate*
History will remember Putin’s Russia as a defender of the weak and the innocent, who simply used the Truth as their greatest ally. America, on the other hand, will be remembered as a country who blatantly supported international terrorism for their own selfish, petty and vain purposes, who staged chemical weapons attacks to have an excuse to bomb innocent people, and who used Lies to get their way in every circumstance.
Sleep tight, America.
Bye bye Miss American pie
Wow, extremely painful viewing for the RF radar crew to watch the destruction of their comrades, all the more so when somebody they trusted betrayed them and the hapless 15 Ilyushin crew members. I don’t know how the general managed to keep his voice even during the briefing; he must have been seething inside.
And those experts at pedantry and pettifogging, the Talmudists, keep on insisting that they were not at fault, not realising that the more they open their mouths and deny their duplicity, the angrier RF MoD get. But trust the Israeli sense of superiority and arrogance to underestimate the Russians and take the RF military for fools.
Israel made a strategic blunder. Their ‘cleverness’ has resulted in a virtual no-fly zone over Syria for them and FUKUS. Their servants (including ISIS who’ve just lost their air force) must must be jumping for joy.
Basil
“when somebody they trusted betrayed them”
This will happen over and over and over when dealing with Anglo-Zion. If they are not convinced then they need to go back to the classroom and listen closely,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtDxz_9sz5M
A near-perfect example of a tactical success leading to strategic catastrophe.
Israeli lies, lies, lies.
Zio lies in USA. Zio lies in UK. Zio lies in France. Zio lies in MSM. Zio lies in NATO. Organised on a world wide scale.
On 17 September 2018, at around 22 hrs (local time) a Russian military plane, Il-20, disappeared from the radar screens in the Mediterranean, approximately 35 km from the coasts of Syria. It returned to the air base of Hmeymim, with 14 people on board.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article203063.html
Re read the bolded text and temporarily forget all the propaganda with which we’ve been innundated.
THE SAKER: this is a mistranslation. The original French text says “Il retournait” which is “he was returning to” but some incompetant translator translated that in English as “It returned”.
It is time to consider the entire IL20 incident has been staged — perhaps jointly by the Russians and Israelis — for the purpose of introducing more advanced a/d systems; which will be nominally ‘Syrian’ but which are in fact 100% Russian controlled.
The purpose of the systems will be to counter NATO, not Israel, which is an ally of Russia and agrees Iranian influence in Syria be curtailed.
Israeli leadership understands the divide between the two main anglo deep state factions and will exploit these divisions alongside Russia when it suits their purposes. Israel may have been founded as a Rothschild State but it has slowly seperated itself from the mother oligarchy. Israelis want to be recognized as legitimate residents of the MER and so the Russian understanding of Israeli psychology has allowed for the brokering of agreements, including Donald Trump, to turn Israel into a legitimate and accepted state and people like any other.
The UK-Rothschild oligarchy, on the other hand, wants to keep Israelis dependent and subservient to the Anglo Zionist British Israel Colonial Project. Netanyahu has been wooed by Russia on this basis and honestly who can blame him for choosing his country over the Empire?
But still ouch.. I’ve never said anything good about Bibi before.
Brilliant extrapolation based on a probable “machine translation error”.
Next you’ll tell us Putin gave the S-400 software codes to Bibi to induce him to crossover to the Eurasian Integration side.
Everyone who has a scintilla of understanding knows the Russians will be manning the S-300 for many months before Syrians are trained on the system.
Your theory is counter to a few thousand years of history, in order for Bibi to turn coat and join a nation most Jews desire to see destroyed.
Based on one mistranslated word in Voltairenet.org.
Do not be so proud of your ability to adopt the prevailing consensus.
It was not a machine translation but the same English version that’s been up for 13 days at Voltairenet. I see the Il retournait to which Saker refers, so I agree the French and English versions are different with lazy translation being the most but not only explanation for a contradiction — one which incidently remains uncorrected almost 2 weeks after it was published.
The Russian story is full of holes so I will indeed theorize. The responses by officials during crisis’ are psyops in any case, everyone reading anything-anywhere should get that by now. What did or did not happen over the eastern Med I don’t know but someone is obviously lying.
Will Russia strengthen or weaken it’s position in Syria after the IL20 ‘incident’?
Would Russia pull a Libya in Syria?
I see Russia’s recent agreement with the Sultan to effectively establish a Turkish terrorist protectorate as an agreement to buy time, in the spirit of Molotov-Ribbetrop, following the same path taken by the Soviets under Stalin bfore WW2. This is my best hope.
Meanwwhile the reported downing of an IL20 occurred only hours after the agreement between Putin and Erdogan was signed, which indeed bought Russia some time and delayed the start of the Russo-Syrian and Iranian offensive against Idlib.
The Turks have less than 30 days to bring their terrorists in Idlib under control according to the agreement that was made by Erdogan and Putin. Let’s see how the Russians use this time but let’s also not discount the possibility Atlanticists would jump at an opportunity to pull a Libya and trade Idlib for Crimea, freezing the situation in Syria as it was frozen in Cyprus in 1974 while simultaneously breathing new life into Erdogan’s Ottoman Dream.
If this sort of trade were to occurr, Idlib for Crimea, it would permanently destroy Russian credibility to the most terrible imaginable detriment of humanity.
So no, not “brilliant,” just unwilling to let anyone do my thinking for me lest this give the Golden Turkophile-Khazar Horde (including most prominently Dmitry Peskov) a free hand to sell Syrians, Palestinians or perhaps even me down the river of technocracy and fascism.
Wolf I will agree with you on one thing, this is some complicated chess being played. We mier ants simply do not have information to know what all the moves mean. We can intuit thus try and put the pieces of the puzzle together, but in the end we are just guessing.
It was realized in Israel quite some time ago that Israel must sacrifice Democracy in order to remain a Jewish State. Consequently, Israel is moving further away from being a “normal country”. For example, unlike “normal countries” Israeli Basic Law does not recognize minority group rights. This year, Arabic was dropped as an official language despite 20% of the population being Arabic speaking. As opposed to “normal” countries such as Canada, Belgium or Switzerland which allow multiple official languages.
There is no universal principal of equality under the law for all citizens as in “normal” countries. Only the Jewish People are recognized as having legitimate nationalist aspirations in Israel. This summer, Basic Law Nation State was revised to explicitly define Israel as a Jewish State. This enshrines Jewish privilege and legitimizes inequality relative to the Arab speaking Israeli population. These are Israeli citizens who happen to be Arab, not Gazans or the West Bank Palestinians who have no rights whatsoever. So I don’t see any evidence of any trend for Israel to become a “normal country”.
The Rothschilds are all over Israeli oil and gas development projects, by the way.
Dave, from day one Israel was not a normal country.
Well if were conjuring…
“perhaps jointly by the Russians and Israelis”
Perhaps the mark was the French frigate and the current knuckledragging Likud mobsters who ambitions never rise above the constant scheming to scare French Jews into emigrating.
Guys like Benny don’t get over public humiliation very easily
https://www.reuters.com/video/2015/01/11/netanyahu-visits-paris-synagogue-crowd-b?videoId=361735135
Netanyahu has taken a beating, and is now out to collect support from the Jewish diaspora.
It looks like Netanyahu did not get support to more conflict from the French synagoge.
Notice that the Jews in the synagoge are singing the French Anthem, not the Israeli.
No stop in Germany.
Angela Merkel has enough trouble with the migrant crises in Germany. She dont need Netanyahu to create more trouble for her.
No stop in UK
Theresa May has enough trouble with brexit, and she dont need Netanyahu to create more trouble for her.
NO Stop in EU.
The EU has lately developed an appetite for Iranian Oil, and supports the Iran/Obama agrement on nuclear weapons.
Netanyahus crie for war will be absolutely rejected by the majority of the European population.
Next stop USA.
Netanyahu will get support from the Jewish mafia in the US.
But the real America will keep Trump from supporting Israel, and thus escalating the conflict.
Considering the US lead wars during the last 4 Presidents, it will be political suicide for Trump to beat the drums for more war, right befor a midterm election.
The IL-20 shoot down may cost Netanyahu his seat as Prime Minister of Israel.
Checkmate Israel.
I am generally open to anything…..but you would have to back this up with something substantial.
Often people are either to naive/ignorant about what the governments are doing and planning behind closed doors or they are so skeptical that they go sometimes too wild with ideas and complicated theories. Often the truth is in the middle.
The governments mainly try to work in their own interests, with corrupt and divided ones often not doing such a good job taking care of their country’s interests in the long term. When the country is powerful enough, this corruption can be regionally or even globally very dangerous.
‘Il retournait’ can be translated as ‘it returned’. That’s not a wrong translation. But in this context the author meant ‘he was returning’. In French ‘il retournait’ can also mean the proces of returning.
W-w,
I would venture to say that this was not an error, as some posters suggest, but deliberate dis-info to totally change the meaning of the original text, as Saker points out.
No matter that Syrian S 200 systems may not be integrated with Russian S 400 systems, a Common red Code Alert (meaning abort, abort … abort everything) must be established between Russian and Syrian systems to avoid any friendly fire in the future.
Adding S 300 systems complicates significantly the situation, and creating a common abort code is imperative.
Thanks General Igor. Stay on top of things and make us informed about machinations
of Israel and USA . Truth is stronger, lie is week and trashy .
To WhereWollf
Incompetent translator, you’re right Saker. Incompetent, not dishonest (his name being all over the place by the way) like your posting seems to be just ignoring all the rest of the translation, that explicitly recognizes the downing of the plane more than one time.
The problem with recent Voltairenet articles is not about the downing itself, but about the way Meyssan’s journal consider the downing of the Iliouchine 20 as a coordinated part in a bigger Lattakia “joint” operation, conducted by GB, France, and Idf. Voltairenet article is short, as often; at the same time, I am not used to take slightly any specific mention of France in their site. So the question is to understand to which point analyses of the IL20 downing as a bilateral Moscow-Telaviv are valid, instead of looking at it right away as a blunt nato attack.
The presence of Israeli aircraft indicates this was not a NATO attack. Israel does not allow its military to serve under foreign command.
Hollander, Israel is an integral part of NATZO _de facto_ though (with typical Israeli duplicity) not _de jure_. Israel pretends to be not in NATZO but has a billion dollar contract to repair NATZO tanks of Turkey, takes part in NATZO exercises, arms and hospitalizes NATZO’s terrorists and is a major actor in NATZO’s seven year failed attempt to destroy Syria. The downing of IL-20 was a combined F UK Z U$ setup, with F UK U$ as collaborators and Israel as the executioner.
NATZO — with a Z for Zion.
“Israel does not allow its military to serve under foreign command.”
Actually, it was nato operating under israel, with israel exercising full command and taking the lead, with nato operating as support, and probably backup.
This is different than previous against Syria, where nato did the bidding of a very much behind the scenes israel, and israel, when they did act publicly, did so without publicly visible nato collaboration. Both were careful about presenting a public view that they operated separately. Not this time, though. Quite clear it was israel calling the shots with nato following orders.
This is likely why the Russian MoD didn’t waste time on the roles of the nato assets supporting this op. The Russians addressed the people in command instead.
This is part of what I was pointing out further down the thread earlier. The israelis are breaking cover and openly threatening the Russians. Something they have been very careful not to do themselves, they had their colonials do it instead. Major change from before, and appears from desperation as Syria mop up israel’s remaining terrorists. Expect much worse from the zionazi-gay freakshow as their
“Major change from before, and appears from desperation as Syria mop up israel’s remaining terrorists.”
And thus ending a direct means to keep attacking Syria. Assad regain full control of his country means wasted money to the Anglo-Zionists.
Possible VT but there is no evidence for the involvement of NATO in this incident. The early report of missile launches by the French have never been confirmed and was more likely a misinterpretation of the actions of other Israeli assets involved, such as Dolphin subs. The US government has also denied involvement. All the world’s evils are not caused by NATO. NATO has more than their fair share of atrocities to answer for. But in this instance I prefer to keep the focus on Israel as did Shoigu.
“but there is no evidence for the involvement of NATO in this incident.”
The preplacement of the french frigate is your definitive evidence. There were also mention of uk and us aircraft flying in the general area. The latter being unconfirmed and not particularly solid info, so their roles are not worth speculating on, yet.
The french vessel was there as part of the mission beyond any doubts, though. At least 2 roles it played was gathering intel on the Syria/Russian response to the israeli op, and sowing fow confusion.
But as I pointed out, the israelis were/are still in charge and whatever roles nato performed was under israeli command and control.
Have we forgotten so quickly that NATO was preparing to attack Syria after charging the government with chemical weapons use? France had already stated their intent to participate in this attack. I don’t find anything mysterious about French or other NATO military assets happening to be in the area. Again, NATO has more than enough crimes to answer for. This simply confuses Israeli culpability in this incident.
But happily trains regularly with NATO forces such as in Greece…Quid pro quo in there somewhere for the US and NATO.
Much in the same way that French Navy mostly operates independently, yet is part of NATO
Sure, but that’s not the same as actually putting Jewish lives at risk. Have Israeli forces ever actively participated in an actual NATO military operation or not? Has Israel ever taken casualties in such a mission? I don’t know of any such instances.
You think the Israelis missed the opportunity to join in the massive air attacks on Saddam?
They simply repainted the jets with US colors or French and fly.
Everyone who wanted Saddam out was in on the two aerial wars against Iraq.
They would not have abstained for the opportunity to gain more combat experience nor the chance to inflict hell on the Iraqis.
Maybe you believe the IDF never flew against Saddam, except for taking out his nuclear facility.
The Iraqi Scud missiles killed 74 Israelis in 1991. You can be certain they hit back. The “record” and “propaganda” was that they stayed out of the war.
And they flew along with the thousands of other sorties packaged by the US Command.
To think and believe otherwise is to not know Israel’s history in wars and acts of revenge.
No need or advantage for IDF participation in either Gulf war. If you have a credible link, please post. Your numbers are a bit off too, see, for example,
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/aboutisrael/history/pages/the%20gulf%20war%20-%201991.aspx
https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/27-years-since-the-Gulf-War-why-didnt-Israel-respond-542437
Yes, I know, it’s all “propaganda”
Over 100,000 sorties, 2000 per day, and you think Israelis weren’t in jets attacking Saddam?
You believe in unicorns, too?
There are copious Israeli-US pilots and planes with fast paint jobs.
That was such a free-for-all bombing regime for 50+ days that everyone who still had a valid license to fly from anywhere got a chance to fly a sortie or two.
All the news covered the facts because of the “Arab sensitivity”. Believe what you want.
Pilots were waiting in line for jets to refuel and rearm. It was a freebee war, shooting apples in a barrel.
Exactly !!! They need constant practice to be ready for the next USS Liberty. The last time they did not do a good job. They tell us that some of the pilots resisted but I will never believe anything they say and neither do the veterans of that incident.
I agree with you.
This comment is just to point out that France did not participate in the Iraq attack.
Coincidently that year a trend raised in Hollywood, call french people gay, traitors and cowards.
You can check the movies for reference.
Regarding the Israelis bombing of the Syrian Targets, this is a routine process based on a agreement between Russia and Israel.
According to the Russian’s ” (real-time) radar airspace picture, and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS), in my personal opinion all 3 parties are responsible for this tragic fatal incident.
Syrians are at least 50 % responsible for firing the missile without Identifying Friend or Foe the intended target.
Israelis are 25% responsible using IL-20 as a shield, assuming that Syrians would hold the fire.
Russian are 25% responsible, for not training Assad’s troops to a better level of competence.
Russia might have to take additional actions such as improving the Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) systems on both Russian and Syrian operated systems. In addition, Moscow may have to invest more in training Assad’s troops to a better level of competence to ensure that such an incident is not repeated.
Ultimately, the real culprit for the downing of the Il-20 is the incompetence and lack of professionalism among the Syrian forces.
“Let’s call a spade a spade, not a gardening tool”
“Syrians are at least 50 % responsible for firing the missile without Identifying Friend or Foe the intended target.”
Can’t read, eh?
The Syrians fires at an Israeli (x4) aircraft attacking a Syrian warehouse. The Russian plan was hit due to a sneaky maneuver ‘hiding’ an Israeli jet in the radar shadow of the Russian plane. The lack of ‘friendly’ identification communication between Russian plane and already fired S200 missile is a shared responsibility between Russia and Syria … and to some extent Israel due to its continued pressure to limit the use of more modern S300 equipment (already purchased) by Syria.
The only added information in the Russian MOD announcement includes the new improved “central control” aspects which suggest that an entirely 100% ‘Russian safe’ chain of command did not previously exist in the Syrian air defense domain. It also subtly implies Russian staff will be at all Syrian S300 defense installations etc — i.e., proceed with extreme caution lest another batch of Russians are cremated in uniform.
How convenient that for you, the Israeli’s are only 25% responsible, even though they only gave the Russians *one minute* warning, they Lied about the area of operations, and the radar data clearly shows the F-16 fighter pilot using the IL-20 as a shield.
I think to the actual Russians, Israel is about 95% responsible for this incident. As based on their statements. And I don’t think the Russian Military cares too much for the opinions of us armchair generals.
You got that last sentence particularly right.
That’s why I don’t jump very fast to impugn the motives of every commenter that makes an error in judgment. It is better to have more laymen trying to engage the mind in these things outside of one’s expertise…..and learn by error that won’t cost much…… than to have them just tuning it all out for the PTB to handle with an unquestioning public not even paying much of any attention to any of it.
When a media source or government deliberately errs (lies) that is more worthy of impugning the integrity of such a source, which has a far greater capacity to know and communicate the facts, but won’t convey those facts.
The Russians gave the Israelis the “privilege” of being able to bomb their own allies provided Russian men and material were not harmed.
Russia withdrew that privilege because it did not work out because of Israeli actions.
Whether the Israelis were to blame .0 % or 100% is immaterial.
It was a privilege- can be withdrawn for any reason or no reason at all.
jiri, Let’s call a spade a spade: Israel lost that privilege because Israel abused it with a premeditated act of cold blooded treachery toward the very country which had given it to them. By no means did Russia “withdraw a privilege for no reason at all”.
“privilege”
Some sickos give another group of sickos such privilege and bitterly complain when this 2nd bunch of sickos do exactly what one would expect from such a bunch of sickos.
And then, 90% of comments here bitterly complain that the first bunch of sickos have been hammered even though, by agreement, customarily watching the 2nd bunch of sickos pulverising the Syrians.
In this case the Russians are probably worse than this bunch of sickos https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Outdoor-Cinema-Photo-Shows-Israelis-Cheering-as-Palestinians-Killed-at-Gaza-Border-20180408-0009.html
Talk about sick.
@Anon (the one who would like to assign only the smallest share of the blame (25%) to Israel) says,”Let’s call a spade a spade”
So let’s call a cunning act of treachery a cunning act of treachery.
Syrians are 50%…
Russians are 25%…
Israelis are 25% …. responsible?
That what you said huh? More … Russia/Syria fault than sovereignty violating Israel’s?
Well, looks like the Russians agree with you – they’re making damn sure it doesn’t happen again by upgrading the systems the Syrians use to one that won’t make that mistake again.
Has it crossed your mind that the Israelis are 100% responsible because they were breaking international law and norms by being there and striking a sovereign state? Had they not been showing off their WAR CRIMINAL skills none of this would have happened: The IL-20 would still be flying, the 15 servicemen would still be alive and Syria would still be stuck with the S-200.
Well,
if the Israelis had never been afforded such Russian “privileges” (attacking Syria with impunity) you can be sure the Russians would have been screaming “abort” to the Syrian S200 batteries the first time an F16 came within 20 miles of the IL-20. A blind man on a galloping horse could have predicted the outcome.
The Russian servicemen paid the ultimate price for the duplicitous schemes of their “patriotic” masters. The Israeli’s may have done it but it was enabled by the Russians at the highest level.
The story we are being told stinks to high heaven.
Having grumbled in a previous thread about the ‘M. Ali vs G. Foreman rumble in the jungle’ metaphor I now believe, after considering the measured and sober response by Putin and Russia’s MOD, that Round 8 has just all but concluded.
All but the organ-eater mop up in norther Syria — with enough warning and delay for the usual suspects to evacuate their pet protagonists — is left with the USA going into its ‘mid-term’ session of election madness.
Israel is effectively declawed and de-fanged in respect to Syria (and perhaps even Lebanon) unless it wants a more active Egypt on its backside (e.g., via Gaza) and a UN-Russian S400 peacekeeping force in the disputed Golan Heights to maintain an ‘anti-hot head’ equilibrium between Iran and Israeli actors — at least in respect to the air domain.
Oddly, a veru unusual visitor appeared recently off the southern Israeli border
https://twitter.com/gdarkconrad/status/1043108922234744833?s=21
Unless it was a miscode.
We are now seeing -as should have been anticipated – the US Israeli-firsters weighing in on behalf of Israel, in regards to the downing of the Russian IL-20, on September 17.
Those of us with an appreciation of history will know that the American officials and politicians have no shame or honor, when it comes to matters relating to Israel.
They will not hesitate, not even for a moment, in siding with Israel, even if it means going against their own country or fellow citizens.
Yesterday I pointed out that if Israel had done the same exact thing to the US – or any other Western country, for that matter – the incident would be promptly hushed up and Israel absolved of any blame.
The Pentagon, or no US president would ever dare release a negative report about Israel, no matter how truthful it might be.
American officials long ago prostituted and forward sold their honor, independence, and dignity to zionist money-men, and as such when they see a country like Russia stand firm and hold Israel to account, it puts them to shame.
Please bear in mind that no American official can speak negatively of Israel and retain his or her job with any US government agency or department.
America exists to do Israel’s bidding.
Everything else is secondary.
Those who doubt this must go and speak to the survivors of Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967.
Dont be surprised if you hear AIPAC minions in the US Congress propose that sanctions be slapped on Russia, for placing S-300s in Syria.
Selah
More warmongering statements from the ‘chosen people’ tonight….
Updated 5:41 PM EDT —
Israel warned Russia it will destroy Hmeimim Air base if Israeli Military jets trying to Bomb Syria are harmed by Russian s-300’s, Israeli military analyst Ron Ben-Yishai says.
THAT is what prompted the Russians to impose a full ‘NO-FLY” Zone over Latakia, Syria today!
UPDATE 5:52 PM EDT —
(This is getting out-of-hand very fast . . . .)
The Israeli Air Force said that “In terms of both quality and quantity, it could easily defeat the Russian Air Force and send missiles to Hmeimim air base in such quantity that the S-400 or Pantsir-S1 could not defend against them.”
The IDF also said “Even with the advantage of on-site forces, Israeli commandos could invade the Hmeimim base and wipe out Russian air defense complexes to make it easier for fighter jets to operate.”
2 USAF B-2 stealth bombers have taken off from Hickam AFB. We note the ‘DEATH’ callsigns.
UPDATE 6:16 PM EDT —
Another RuAF IL-76 has just landed at Khmeimim AFB in Syria after flying from Russia. Carrying more S-300 battery components for the Syrian Air Defence Forces
UPDATE 6:51 PM EDT —
Russian defense minister Shoigu reacts also against US movements in Syria: “Delivery of #Russia’s S300 to Syria will also stop Western coalition from carrying out uncontrolled attacks on Syrian territory”
The only place I could find your “UPDATES” was Hal Turner, citing nothing.
As good ol’ Hal ain’t the most reliable source, I’m wondering if you’ve got any others.
Er…
1. There are B-2 flights with callsign Death11, 12 and 21 and they have flown out on routine deployment from Hickam. It took me 2 mins to get this.
https://twitter.com/pacaf/status/1041476830195339267?s=21
2. Anothef Il-76 was noted by avgeeks flying into Syria. And reported in Rus media
https://iz.ru/792721/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi-aleksei-kozachenko/radioelektronnyi-shchit-minoborony-razvorachivaet-v-sirii-sredstva-reb
3. Let add that there are/were B-52s recently in Diego Garcia with callsign TOXIN.
Correction: it wasn’t the B-52s that had the Toxin callsign but their accompanying fueler KC-135s
It does make me wonder. Any other intriguing callsigns?
“Er…” seems to be the extent of the confirmation, then.
Probably good ol’ Hal hearing voices again.
I confirmed all of what Antiwars updates. The info is there.
The Israeli response to causing the deaths of 15 Russian servicemen is to threaten to kill more Russian servicemen?
Wow – sounds like they’ve lost what’s left of their tiny sod-cutting minds!
Israel’s entire army might well be larger than the Russian force at any one base in Syria – but it’s not larger than the Russian army.
Please – what source are you citing?
If I was Iran and hezbullah, I would be running open convoys of military equipment 24/7 right in front of their faces.
Quick response to the video (still at work – these wonderful 9am-1am post raygun regime workdays in pindoland).
First, RT should lose the unprofessional newscaster who confused just about everything.
Second, the israeli f-16 had already shot their wad, they’re hanging about after, shown in the MoD presentation, is uncharacteristic. Usually they fire off their munitions and then make a run for it.
Third, sending the in the lone f-16 to escort the Il-20 again. What’s the purpose, he already shot his wad and was unarmed?
My guess is the israelis specifically wanted the Russian aircraft to be hit by Syrian AA. The first attempt at it failed during the actual israeli attack, the 4 f-16s hanging anout to see if the Russian plane got mistakenly hit.
It didn’t, so they detached the 1 f-16 from the group to close, as if making another attack run, to entice the Syrians to fire another round of SAA missiles. They did, and that lone israeli f-16 lured the S-200 missile onto the Il-20.
Very specific operation, pre-planned, highly coordinated with the usa/nato colonies and part of a larger set strategy. Most probably predating the Russian/Syrian/Turk Idlib agreement.
Exactly what was the zionazi-gay purpose I’m not sure, there are multiple choices here, but the way the israelis are sticking to their propaganda bs line convinces me that this sleight of hand was intended to piss off the Russians big time. And that the israelis want this.
Further evidence of this while the Russians have been offering the israelis a backdoor out of it being a local failure of cowardly israeli pilots taking advantage of the Il-20 to escape the Syrian AD, the israelis, who could easily claim it was a failure of local command, make good publicly, and return to the previous status quo, keep pushing the same propaganda.
Obviously, the israeli propaganda is part of a larger israeli strategy, that includes worsening relations with Russia, while at the same time making a Russia-israeli clash more acceptable, and expected, to the western zomb…, public. IE: the zpc/nwo are very much determined to keep their war against Syria going and much more.
Then they’ve joined the US in level of hubris.
This reminds me of that old cartoon of Ukraine throwing itself head first against Russia in order to bruise Russia. Israel’s goals end where Russia’s security begins.
We are seeing, not ploys within ploys here, but incompetence piled on incompetence. Like the Cheshire Cat and his smile, all that Israel has left is its arrogance. Its capabilities will fail against Russia.
I do agree with you that Israel has all kinds of plans. But what it thinks doesn’t matter.
“Israeli Cabinet Orders Continuation of Ops in Syria, in Coordination With Russia…..”
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201809251068315490-israel-syria-military-operations-russia/
And they continue to have their heads in the sand and their bottoms in the air – they carry on as if everything is fine between Russia and Israel – psychopathic arrogance.
This is something that is not being discussed.
Information available so far strongly suggests that this event was a pre-meditated, well planned event.
The Israelis clearly calculated that this provocation was well worth any possible consequence.
What did they hope to achieve?
Making a point (misguided) about their view on Syria, why else choose to loiter, approach the one aerial platform, with expertise onboard that was actively monitoring the terrorists over Idlib. They were an important intel link in finding out out the fake CW ops.
Staged yes.
Vot Tak,
I’ve come to the same conclusion. The Israeli strike was all too nicely set up, the Russian MoD have communicated enough to highlight the inconsistencies & question the Israeli narrative. Now Tel Aviv hasbaras are full speed amplifiying the counter message. They are keeping to the script that this tweet from IDF on the 18th: (still up)
“2. When the Syrian Army launched the missiles that hit the Russian plane, IAF jets were already within Israeli airspace.
3. During the strike against the target in Latakia, the Russian plane that was then hit was not within the area of the operation.”
I hope the usual Zionist deception has, for once, blown in their faces. So instead of 4D chess we’re just witnessing more murderous games (euphemistically known as chutzpah or reckless audacity). They wanted to drive a wedge between Syria and Russia and it failed…
However you do induce a sinking feeling that there may be more to this than meets our eyes. The Israelis must have known that the Russians would know. Yet the Israelis are sticking to their propaganda, i.e it was Syria; it was because of Iran; it is the threat of Hezbollah.
Perhaps the Israelis took the risk that Russian protests would not leak into the Zionist controlled Western media, and that’s all that counts really — not the truth, but the perceptions of the manipulated Western audiences. So in that sense, yes indeed we’re witnessing unbridled chutzpah in terms of the propaganda management. If this is the case.
The Israelis have gotten so used to the practise of pissing all over the US and other Western countries, and always getting away with it, that now that Russia has decided to reprimand them publicly for this cowardly and treacherous crime, they are apoplectic with shock.
For them its like:
“How dare Russia speak to us like this?”
Dont they know that we are entitled to bomb, and kill, and destroy anything and anyone, anywhere we choose, at anytime?”
“Dont they?”!!!!!!!
Unimpressed, and still seething with anger, Shoigu and the entire brass of the Russian MOD respond in unison with an emphatic:
“Nyet”!!!!!!
Selah
As an American (some of my people got here close to 400 years ago) I am ashamed and disheartened by the methodical way the Neocons, the MIC, and the Banksters are dismantling my country with micro-betrayals on a daily basis.
At the same time, I watch with hope as VVP and other loyal Russians position that great nation for world ascendency. The hope I feel is for civilized humanity, and for those young people of my country smart enough to learn Russian and to seek to emigrate.
My country will never fall to an enemy. It will collapse under the weight of its own hubris.
Israel and Zionists, who have used an abused us for almost one hundred years, are unable to see that they have become worse than superfluous, they have become an unsustainable nuisance.
Time you stopped blaming the Neocons, the MIC, and the Banksters – you should just focus on plain old halfwit Americans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
https://www.timesofisrael.com/americans-support-for-israel-among-highest-ever-recorded/
Saleh
I think the actions of Zion was deliberate and was design to instill deep shame in the Russians, and thereby giving them greater leverage over the Russian leadership. But, it did not come off just right.
If you remember when Shoigu visited Israel, Nutty attacked Syria on that same day, and got an invite to Victory Day as a “reward”. When President Xi visited Trump in Florida, the US attacked Syria (during the Chocolate Cake) and Trump got deals for his kids in China ,and a state visit to Beijing as “reward.”
Even when Nutty was at the Victory Day parade, the Zionist attacked Syria, and maybe got the Iran/Hebollah ejected for the borderlands, and Russians searching for their dead.
A man may beat his wife and , in the short-run she will make excuses for him, and try even harder to please him, because she is deluded to think this will stop the beatings. It is a psychological trap—the beatings only get worse.
Israel tried to make Russian into an abuse spouse (just like the Americans), but it takes time to create a “doormat”, and it was too soon to have worked on the Russians military.
The Israelis were not concern about their LIES, they were expecting the Russians to fully participate in the victimization/murder of their service personnel out of “shame”—and, to adopted the “tale” the Zionists were gleefully advancing, with tongue in cheek.
After all–look how many times the Russians reached out to them (over 300), and they only called 25 times—does this remind anyone of abusive relationships where one person is trying way too hard.
And, the Israelis did initially have some success in the statement put out by VVP at the onset. But the Russian political leadership soon had to play catch-up to the military leadership who were having none of it.
They were livid (as we all were), and they called a spade a spade, and the political leaders had to act.
A Russian (pro VVP) told me a couple of years ago, that Russian has over a million Navalny(s) living in Israel, and I am sure that goes in part for the government and business community too. It is gratifying to see the Russian Military standing tall in this incident.
Banksters Schiff, Harriman, Kuhn, Loeb, Rothschild, Warburg Et Al (“Ash Can Nazi Jews” [ACNJ]) thought Israel was to be Earth’s one world dictatorial point of “government”. The human slavery energy — to serve the jackals and their pinheaded minions — were to be culled. 90% or thereabouts of the “bewildered herd” to market slaughter, thus the goyim didn’t pose an uncontrollable problem. The element of the subtle unknown clearly has decided to disagree with the coo coo chosenites. In a word, jubilee.
ACNJ has after many centuries (beginning in 16?!) “checkmate!” In another word, hallelujah!
I do NOT think this move has been “staged“, as an illustrious commenter has suggested,above.
I do not think that the Russian leadership is collaborating with the enemies of humanity, even a short-term deal to gain the preponderance of the leverage to enable Russia ‘coming out on top’ in the confrontation, being fabricated on the side of the empire.
The history of collaborators with the enemies of humanity is 100% certain, based on the historical evidence.
Also, we are already too close to an endgame with a wretched psychopathy that would see the entire world burn if they couldn’t dominate it all.
Even for a short term collaboration, I am very confident that a student of history like Putin, allied to a strong mind, would not enter into cahoots with this entity.
I think the move in Syria is upon a very strong rational and logical foundation. Always pushing it, ready to fall back on complete dominance of the mainstream media to ‘write the history the way that suits them best’.
Only Russia has already foreseen this kind of a move.
Attention is being brought to the theft-based occupational entity in the process of committing premeditated genocide against an indigenous population, the viral hits of the Russian de-briefings, showing with evidence, precise details, countering the vague, even weak attacks on the Russian integrity, drawing upon these years of brainwashing about the ridiculous anti-Russian propaganda; but I don’t think its working. They keep on saying ridiculous, even pathetic narratives; people have heard it all before, and have been developing a partial immunity to this formula of toxin.
My prediction, the more bombastic the enemies of humanity get, which they most certainly will, the Russian MoD, who have clearly taken the ‘prime’ agency in this operation, will present ever, and ever more damning facts on the ground in the middle east theatre, and specifically on the obsessive kleptomaniacs.
This is what I believe is going to happen.
People will see the hysteria,and notice the leavers being pushed all over the place, it will not be stealthy; it will be blatant, even to a zombie!
I hope, because it is difficult to see how far this can go, and anything that far is unstable.
Being called their bluffs is, more than anything else, guaranteed to get the perennial sphincter-clenching world champions apoplectic, and out-of-control.
This could be ugly.
I predict that this is just the beginning.
It doesn’t really matter what we think – what is important is the truth and we may never know that.
yeah, i know what you actually mean,it must be ,”the dark nights of soul ” for the hot headed uncivilised fear mongers and war protagonists. Wonder how they gonna perform for their sleeping folks ,whom they had”led” till now like for 60 years or more,the voodoo magic of ”chosen ones” aint working as it used to.Dangerous time indeed for the uncivilised tribe,but like a wounded animal which bites itself,”regime change” play might boomerang,after all there is no honour among the uncivilised….your prediction, that this is just the beginning is blowing in the wind, fiercely.
The zio-project’s only got a likely life span of 120 years.
We are over the 50% mark already.
Dreams will become nightmares, will become distant memories, will become forgotten myths.
I am BITTERLY DISSAPOINTED that Mr Putin did not take the hint/chance to showcase s500
If the Israelist does not collar their zionist… Is it NOT time to return the land to the rightful people?!
Nomads (and moderate rebels) are not suppose to have lands… agree?
Why would Russia deploy the S-500?
To have one (with all its software) fall into the hands of the Americans and/ Israelis?
They (Yanks ‘n Ysiraelis) would like that….)
Russia ain’t even selling that baby yet.
Come and get it?!! Maybe?!
Helmer: Putin Corrects Mistakes By Biting his Tongue on Telephone with Assad and Netanyahu
http://johnhelmer.net/putin-corrects-mistakes-by-biting-his-tongue-on-telephone-with-assad-and-netanyahu/
Perfectly normal, diplomatic response from Putin.
Helmer’s article tries to show discord where there isn’t any.
What was Putin supposed to tell Bibi? Badmouth him and swear at him? The Russian military announcements had already called the Israelis uncivilised, treacherous, and unworthy to be trusted. No point in Putin repeating the same.
Classic good cop/bad cop gambit.
I think Helmer’s on the money. Putin’s been sidelined in dealing with Syria, and there are many who would say “Finally”.
The fact speak for themselves:
– Shoigu blames IL
– Putin contradicts him, and talks about “tragic errors”
– Konashenko shows that there’s no errors. The take down was clearly planned.
– A meeting is held on Sunday by what Helmer calls the Stavka (War Cabinet)
– On Monday, Shoigu contradicts Putin’s long held positions, and announces “play time is over”.
– Putin stays publicly silent.
Any political calculus will tell you that Putin has been persuaded/overruled by Russia’s security apparatus. The Generals will now run the Syrian theatre.
Agree fully with you. More over MOD revealed very sensitive information like non-coordinated 175 Israeli air attacks in Syria and Iran + proxies being removed 120km from Golan Heights in collaboration with Russian efforts. Those thing are supposed to be non-public. Seems to me MOD is telling Putin that Russia did everything to please Israel but enough is enough, now we are taking charge of military affairs. This is my reading. We will see how things will develop from this point on.
The Globalists whom were in control of the Russian army on 1993 are still in total control, and they are more sophisticated than ever NOW.
The constitutional crisis of 1993 was a political stand-off between the Russian president Boris Yeltsin and the Russian parliament that was resolved by using military force. The relations between the president and the parliament had been deteriorating for some time. The constitutional crisis reached a tipping point on September 21, 1993, when President Yeltsin aimed to dissolve the country’s legislature (the Congress of People’s Deputies and its Supreme Soviet), although the president did not have the power to dissolve the parliament according to the constitution.
Yeltsin used the results of the referendum of April 1993 to justify his actions. In response, the parliament declared that the president’s decision was null and void, impeached Yeltsin and proclaimed vice president Aleksandr Rutskoy to be acting president.
The situation deteriorated at the beginning of October. On October 3, demonstrators removed police cordons around the parliament and, urged by their leaders, took over the Mayor’s offices and tried to storm the Ostankino television center. The army, which had initially declared its neutrality, stormed the Supreme Soviet building in the early morning hours of October 4 by Yeltsin’s order, and arrested the leaders of the resistance.
The ten-day conflict became the deadliest single event of street fighting in Moscow’s history since the Russian Revolution. According to government estimates, 187 people were killed and 437 wounded, while estimates from non-governmental sources put the death toll at as high as 2,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis
Please NOTE:
“{The army, which had initially declared its neutrality, stormed the Supreme Soviet building in the early morning hours of October 4 by Yeltsin’s order, and arrested the leaders of the resistance”}.
1 – The army stormed the Supreme Soviet building in the early morning hours of October 4 by Yeltsin’s order, and arrested the leaders of the resistance.
2 – Gorbachev and Yeltsin were NWO sleeping agents activated on 1985 and 1991.
3 – They were not alone they had supporters able to control the Russian elite. Name them 5th column, Jewish or whatever.
4 -Judge them by the deeds not by the words.
What did Jesus mean by “you will know them by their fruit?”
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits,” (Matthew 7:15-20).
https://carm.org/you-will-know-them-by-their-fruit
5- On 1993 globalists fixed the Region #5 Russia, and Russia now, is in the NWO Tracks.
Since then they control Finance, Economy, Media and Rulers of Russia, and their grip over Army is tightened not released.
The Globalists whom were in control of the Russian army on 1993 are still in total control and they are more sophisticated than ever NOW.
I sense a power shift is underway. If, as many allege, Putin is soft on Israel, then Sergei Shoigu has apparently put his foot down and asserted that he will define the military strategy while Putin looks after the diplomatic strategy.
The Israel killers just pushed too far and created a game change and things might look mighty different for a while. I suspect an exit for Netanyahu is on the horizon in the near term.
Putin used to look tough, many cut him plenty of slack to keep it under control and focused on the erasure of the jihadis. His recent ‘deal’ with Erdogan left a little to be desired but would need a bayonet at Erdogan’s arse to keep him in line. Doable, yes, but I thought it would drive the Russian army crazy to be seen to be in line with this treacherous dog’s tricks in Idlib. Enter Sergei Shoigu and maybe people now will realise that Russia’s first offer is usually its best offer.
Time will tell. But it is a good look to see S-300’s installed on the western front. Just erase the jihadis and let none escape.
Note to commentator … Please stop being sophomoric with your pejorative names for Israel, Netanyahu and Erdogan I have changed … next time will go to trash… mod
The changes are irreversible, and the chances to be reversed by another Revolution are slim, or None.
Russian Revolution was finalized on October 24–25 (November 6–7, 1917).
The Bolsheviks and Left Socialist Revolutionaries staged a nearly bloodless coup; occupying government buildings, telegraph stations, and other strategic points.
Kerensky’s attempt to organize resistance proved futile, and he fled the country.
The Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets, which convened in Petrograd simultaneously with the coup, approved the formation of a new government composed mainly of Bolshevik commissars.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Russian-Revolution-of-1917
A 5 years long bloody war (1917 – 1922), known as Russian Civil War, between the two largest combatant groups the Red Army, fighting for the Bolshevik form of socialism led by Vladimir Lenin, and the loosely allied forces known as the White Army, which included diverse interests favoring political monarchism, economic capitalism and alternative forms of socialism, was decisive for defeating the Monarchism and establishing Socialism in USSR.
The suffering and bloody price was enormous, but the result was a superpower named USSR, that defeated Nazis and rivaled the West for more than 45 years (Cold War).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War
Russian counter-revolution started on 1991 and was finalized on October 4, 1993, 76 years after the Russian revolution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis
The consequences was horrible for the Russia, that lost half of industry, territories and population, but the consequences were more horrible for Russian population, with a significant shrink of population.
In the seventeen years between 1992 and 2009, the Russian population declined by almost seven million people, or nearly 5 percent—a rate of loss unheard of in Europe since World War II.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC259165/
So the changes are irreversible, and the chances to be reversed by another Revolution are slim, or None.
“We will continue to act to prevent Iranian military entrenchment in Syria and we will continue the military coordination between the IDF (Israel Defence Forces) and the Russian army. I have reached an agreement with President Putin that working groups … will meet soon to achieve this goal,” Netanyahu told reporters on Tuesday.”
Is this baloney…sputnik article….?
Where is Putin?
I have read an interesting article by John Helmer (http://johnhelmer.net/putin-corrects-mistakes-by-biting-his-tongue-on-telephone-with-assad-and-netanyahu/)
A few days ago I wrote similar stuff intuitively here in this blog. So others are also sensing some serious rift between Putin (Kremlin) and the MOD. What brought me to this conclusion was the highly contradicting statements from Putin versus MOD. Military opted to give a minute to minute detail of the incident after Putin has said that it was an “unfortunate chain of events”. Also MOD revealed very sensitive and confidential information during the briefing. One was that only 25 out of 200 attacks of Israel was reported to the Russian Military beforehand. Also the admission that Russia forced Iran and proxies to move away 120km from the Golan Heights was a huge revelation IMO. These things usually are never spoken publicly. As John Helmer stated in his article, the message of the briefing seems to me more towards Kremlin than anyone else. Moreover, Putin is nowhere to be seen (yet). No official announcement from Kremlin either. Fuels the suspicion that MOD is now in full control of military affairs. We will see how this situation will turn out.
How about his datcha. Can he not have some time off? Besides, he does not have to be in the spotlight all the time. Does Trump do that (spotlight)? Okay besides the tweets?
I don’t think that there is any rift.
V. Putin sad immediately, in his first public reaction when he talked about tragic circumstances that statements of Russian Military have his full support. He just doesn’t do knee jerking. He patiently waited for research results and took time to think and consults with his team before official reaction. Once situation was clear, they came with a very effective and (for some) very painful measures. That all done in a calm, rational and dignified style. None of the theatral hysterics which became a norm in the west.
All the interpretations of Reuters, Times of Israel, ABC and such, are mere wishful thinking.
When the nasty stuff was going on in Ukraine, Putin always left it to the military experts to explain and elaborate on the false memes that were out in the western press. This is exactly like that.
“I don’t think that there is any rift.”
I agree. There isn’t. The attempts to portray some sort of conlict between Putin/Lavrov and the Russian MoD are bog standard hostile psywar nonsense intended to cause dissention and confusion.
The reporter gets it wrong repeatedly. She said an Israel S-200 hit the IL-20 when it was a Syrian missile that hit the plane. Reporter is hot but obviously not too smart. LOL
The Russians are clearly angry over this incident and the response of 1) sending S-300s to the Syrian forces, 2) integrating the command and control systems more thoroughly, and 3) announcing an official policy of jamming all enemy aircraft and missiles over Syria and a portion of the Mediterranean clearly shows that Russia has had enough of Israeli meddling in Syria.
Make no mistake. Israeli jets will be shot down in the future and Israeli pilots will die. This is Russia’s revenge for the IL-20 attack – and it will be served cold as revenge should be.
Saker,
What do you think about this?
“Sources in Moscow report the military’s loss of confidence in the Commander-in-Chief has not been seen in public since President Boris Yeltsin countermanded orders for Russian military aid to Serbia under NATO bombing between March and June 1999, dismissing Prime Minister Yevgeny Primakov on the US demand. ”
http://johnhelmer.net/putin-corrects-mistakes-by-biting-his-tongue-on-telephone-with-assad-and-netanyahu/
Total clickbait nonsense
The Saker
The Israelis plus their vassals just lifted the cloak off and activated the whole Russian defense system.its poised to destroy any offensive munition and its delivery system aimed at their S-300’s.Their hubris raised the stakes a million-fold.Based this on the observation that Russians will not let one of their top-notch A.D apparatus to be rubbished.The S-300 has to win.Its the only option.If S-300 were to falter ,i surmise that the likes of S-400 would kick in.S-300 appear to have morphed into a strategic weapon, thanks to Netanyahu.Defense-wise,Syria turning into a Russian Oblast.
@ Richard Steven Hack
“Make no mistake. Israeli jets will be shot down in the future and Israeli pilots will die. This is Russia’s revenge for the IL-20 attack – and it will be served cold as revenge should be.”
I hope you’re right, but time will tell.
Syria is involved in “cyclones eye” of geopolitical interests of NWO.
There is a technical part and Political part.
Politically it is crisp clear that Russia doesn’t have enough force economically and militarily to dictate in the Middle East.
Russia stays in Syria with an arm righted trying to avoid any direct confrontation with Israel.
It is crisp clear the fatal incident of IL-20 escalated the conflict in a higher level, and complicated things.
Can Russia shoot down US/ Israelis fighters?
Yes, they can do, because they have the technology.
Can Russia sink aircraft carriers?
Yes, they can do, because they have the technology?
Can Russia, liberate Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Nikolayev and Odessa?
Yes, they can do, because they have enough power and technology.
Can Russia start a nuclear war?
Yes, they can do with more than 7000 thermonuclear heads, delivered by ICBM?
But Russia isn’t doing that, because they have decided, and declared, “not to be the first to start WW3”.
Technically regarding IL-20 incident none of 3 involved parties (Israel, Syria, and Russia), none of them have clean hands.
Russia “privileged Israel” to violate the airspace of Syria and bomb Syria.
Russian S-400 was active and they knew everything was happening in a radius of 250 km (including IL-20).
Russian failed to send message “abort” to Syrian S-200 system, while IL-20 were at least 20km near Israelis F-16.
Syrians proved to be incompetent to run S-200 system. The locked the missile to a F-16 Foe target ignoring that a Friendly object IL-20 was at least 20km in vicinity of F-16. Ignoring that at the end the missile lock itself at the Nearer, Larger and Slower object.
Physically IL-20 was shoot down by a Russian made S-200 systems missile operated by Syrians.
Could Russian S-400 systems, active at the time of incident, be able to shoot down all 4 Israelis F-16, after IL-20 despaired of radar?
My answer is Yes.
Why they didn’t do it?
Please ask them why, before posting your comment as:
“Make no mistake. Israeli jets will be shot down in the future and Israeli pilots will die. This is Russia’s revenge for the IL-20 attack – and it will be served cold as revenge should be.”
“Why they didn’t do it?” Because this was the order.The assymetric way of Russians to lead with this kind of situation that in this I particularly disagree.
What did she say/happened at #9:15 of the video? Isreali’s shot the il20? stuttering… what was on that paper? And why did her ‘conclusions’ completely contradict the earlier snippet.
What she said at #9:15 it isn’t correct.
So with S 400 active, the Russian in Syria had “real-time” radar airspace picture and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS).
The 92N6E (or 92N2E) is a multi-functional radar with a 400-kilometre (250 mi) range which can track 100 targets.
Russian MoD makes statement: New evidence on Il-20 downing off Syrian coast, based on “real-time” radar airspace picture and data in support of the battle commander and the Ground Theater Air Control System (GTACS).
There isn’t room for mistakes, or speculation, and as he said “a S-200 System missile downed IL-20”.
What she said at #9:15 it isn’t correct.
Be aware that S-400 system multi-functional radar with a 400-kilometre (250 mi) range can track 100 targets.
So Russian know in details not what happened to IL-20, but also what Israelis did during more than 50 minutes on the night of 9/17/18.
Be aware that in most cases the Israelis bomb Syria without “Violation” the Syrian air space launching “Guided Bombs” or missiles from international waters or Lebanon airspace.
A guided bomb can glide with ratio 1:7, so if launched from 10 km high it can travel 70km, and the missiles have a much longer range.
So a “non fly zone” over Syria airspace cannot stop Israel bombing anything in Syria from, Mediterranean Sea, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, or why not from US/ Kurds controlled East of Euphrates.
These are serious problems, between Russia’s Government, Russian Military, and Russian People.
They have to think twice before “privileging” Israel to bomb Syria, and continue the “partnership” with “colleagues” like Israel.
And here another one interesting comment of D. trump addressing un today, while discussing iran sanctions: ‘war will follow’ : 1:15:23 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nVE-WxFss4I)
(My deepest honours to the mods and saker, as this vineyard is the only place on the www i encountered where the discussion does elevate and often surpases the content itself. My #2 comment)
One thing is still not clear to me. I’ll go with the assumption that the the action of the lone Israeli F16 was following a pre-arranged script, but what information would have been available to the pilot? The Russians have said that civilian aircraft use some of the relevant airfields, hence could the Israeli pilot have known that a fighter/surveillance/civilian aircraft was available as a cover?
Now F-16 are equipped with The AN/APG-68 radar. It is a long range Pulse-doppler radar, range 296.32 km, 184 miles.
So the pilot can se anything day/night up to 184 miles far away.
The AN/APG-68 provided the Fighting Falcon several capability improvements that transformed its mission profile from daytime air-to-air to a more versatile all weather, multi-role fighter aircraft.
But wait:
America’s F-16 Fighters are Getting a New Radar (And Russia Is Partly to Blame)
The addition of the APG-83 greatly increases the F-16’s capabilities against increasingly sophisticated threats that include new enemy cruise missiles as well as evermore-capable adversary fighters such as the Sukhoi Su-35S Flanker-E . Compared to the F-16’s existing APG-68 mechanically scanned radar, the APG-83—which leverages technology from the F-35 ’s APG-81—can detect, track and identify greater numbers of targets much faster and at much longer ranges.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/americas-f-16-fighters-are-getting-new-radar-russia-partly-21054
This seems to suggest that only one S 200 was fired. Does this seem plausible with the number of Israeli fighter jets to be targeted?
There’s been a lot said this week about the instrumentalities and externalities of war: S300s, the IL-22; tactical determinants perhaps. But not sea-level game-changers in and of themselves.
The most material development of the last week imo has been the subtle bifurcation we’re witnessing in the Russian response. We’ve digressed from the measured, univocal parsings of Putin and Lavrov to a stage shared by a more binary power center, Shoigu and the Stavka. Putin’s range of motion, his up-til-now broad latitude of response, has been curtailed. Without needing to pass judgment on the long-term efficacy of Putin’s absorb-then-counterstrike approach (or whether it’s a good cop/bad cop contrivance), the military-industrial faction at his back will insist, going forward, on less chess and more hammer.
The Statesman Approach has ceded turf, willingly or otherwise, to the War Cabinet.
Just as war is a secular trend’s final gesture after a series of progressively under-performing business cycles (each cycle hobbled increasingly by mounting, unaddressable debt), statesmanship runs its course.
A consensual or imposed power-sharing? We’ll probably never know. Putin sidelined? Too harsh. Let’s be deferential to VVP and call it a more collective response to future incitements. Nonetheless there is an unmistakable whiff of failure. Recourse to war is the ultimate failure of statesmanship.
At the same time, war’s arrival is as supernatural as it is inevitable. Despite all the retrospective dissections, it exceeds our ken to avert it; at best, we postpone it. Lincoln said it best in his 1865 Second Inaugural near the end of the American Civil War:
“On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil war. All dreaded it, all sought to avert it. While the inaugural address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, insurgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without war—seeking to dissolve the Union and divide effects by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish, and the war came.”
Human agency flatters itself by thinking it starts wars. Rather, wars arrive.
Having broached America, and with the indulgence of the mods, let me briefly touch upon the battle occurring stateside. For the American domestic climate has EVERYTHING to do with what’s transpiring on WW3’s formative fronts.
There is a Left Hand and Right Hand at play on the planet. They belong to the same anatomy despite great efforts taken to obscure their connectivity. Both are reaching their apogees with eerie simultaneity. A Babylonian mystery? Perhaps. The fact is the Syrian and NATO war theaters are being brought to a boil at precisely the same time the Deep State (really the Five Eyes transnational consortium of surveillance agencies that actively operate as one while maintaining the mirage of ‘cooperating’ national agencies) is under unprecedented attack and potential exposure.
The Trump Russian Collusion narrative is collapsing at calamitous speed, exposed for the whole-cloth fiction it is (I described this in a prior Saker outing a few months ago). Moreover MI6 and GCHQ are all over the backstage shadow-play. (Again, trying to avert the weeds) too many of the Collusion key players have Five Eyes credentials: Stefan Halper (CIA, MI6), Joe Mifsud (MI6), Chris Steele (MI6), Alexander Downer (ASIS, MI6), Robert Hannigan (GCHQ).
So, Trump (uncharacteristically) reversed himself, retracting his 9/17 declassification order demanding vast troves of FBI unredactions. Why? Because the request drew much bigger fish than the usual domestic adversaries, the recalcitrant bureaucrats of the so-called American Deep State. Among other things, the redactions are concealing material Five Eyes participation. Trump will seek his vengeance where it belongs: on the international stage and amongst America’s ‘steadfast allies’.
See this interview here (at 2:50)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4OjEksiJA4&t=165s
And his next-day tweet here:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1043146627576258561
And the first few minutes here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d13UIhMNIsA&t=83s
Australia and the UK leaders are likely to have collapsed in a heap at the prospect of the Trump ‘unredactions’. Suddenly Trump has been presented with a transnational raft of bullets and a slug of fresh leverage. The declassification trout hook drew a couple of whales. So it was retracted pending a more ambitious fishing expedition.
Think too of the ramifications of the following headline:
UK and Australian Governments Revealed as Central Players in Attempted Coup of US President.
What are the NATO implications alone?
And what countermeasures will pour forth to avoid/displace such a headline? America’s Dept of Justice/FBI participants in this attempted coup suddenly become parochial players in a burgeoning geopolitical tsunami of unprecedented magnitude. Faced with such abject exposure (not to mention cries of treason) Five Eyes has little choice but to unleash a diversionary countermeasure of similar scale. That would be WW3. Conclusion? The Russian shift is more than appropriate.
“the IL-22”
I don’t recall anything said recently about an Il-22.
I have a question…..
If the Syrians fired the missile the brought down the Ilyushin – how come they fired only 1 missile at 4 Israeli jets? Why didn’t they fire a barrage of missiles?