Official MOD video of the briefing on newly discovered evidence pertaining to the crash of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17
Saker Message:
Official MOD video of the briefing on newly discovered evidence pertaining to the crash of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17
It is a fact that Malaysian flight MH-17 was shot down. The question is who shot it down and why. Russia ? Russians in the Donbass ? Why ? To gain negative publicity ? Of course not.
By now it’s perfectly clear what happened. That Malaysian airliner was not the target, but President Vladimir Putin’s plane, which was flying close by. The Ukrainians mistook the Malaysian airliner for President Putin’s plane, ending up shooting down the wrong plane.
Western media hysterics after that botched assassination attempt always concentrated on the Malaysian plane, forgetting to state that President Putin’s plane was almost right next to it. However, all parties involved know what happened.
President Putin’s airplane was nowhere near that site nor did it transit orcland during it’s flight.
Auslander
Auslander
That is not the information which I have. Numerous sources have pointed out that President Putin’s plane was quite close to the Malaysian airliner. When I say close, I do not mean right next to the Malaysian plane. After that incident, President Putin’s plane either has an escort of combat planes, or else takes circular routes when going to a destination outside Russia, a clear allusion to what happened on that day with the Malaysian airliner.
Auslander is saying what I’ve always heard as well. So, I did a quick bit of looking.
A non-google search found an RT report on the question. It gives both the original “interfax” report that claimed they were close, and official statements refuting the report.
https://www.rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
And, I can’t help to note that even the Interfax report saying they were close says that it occurred near Warsaw. They give times of MH-17 being at this location at 15:44 and the supposed plane Putin was on at 16:21.
Close might work in horseshoes and hand grenades, but 37 minutes is a long darn time when talking about jet aircraft.
The RT article also goes on to say Putin was returning from a BRICS summit in Brazil. The Interfax report that says that the planes were their version of “close” near Warsaw does not explain how a Putin flignt from Brazil to Moscow would somehow proceed home via Donetz?
Anonymous
It would appear that I need to elaborate. On that fateful day there were three planes in the general vicinity of the crash. The Malaysian airliner, President Vladimir Putins plane and at least one Ukrainian SU-24, possibly two. It’s questionable if a BUK missile was used, by any side.
The target of that attack was not the Malaysian airliner, but President Putins plane. Both his plane and the Malaysian airliner had almost identical logo colors. The Ukrainian pilot mistook the Malaysian airliner for President Putins plane. He fired an air to air missile, which has a range of 10 km, and which struck the port engine of the airliner. This can clearly be seen in that video that was shown on the Internet, where the Malaysian airliner is falling to the ground with its port engine on fire. As the airliner was falling, the Ukrainian pilot started firing 30 mm armor piercing cannon shells into the cockpit, killing the pilots.
Photographs were made of the cockpit and shown on the Internet. You can clearly see 30 mm cannon holes on both sides of the cockpit. However, the most damaging evidence against Ukraine is the fact that you have both entry and exit holes on both sides of the cockpit, something ball bearings from a BUK missile cannot achieve.
Everybody knows what happened. Russia is playing along, pretending that a BUK missile was used, and not an air to air missile, followed by 30 mm cannon shells. It’s offering NATO an exit strategy. However, NATO does not know how to conclude this whole affair, as it knows perfectly well that Russia can produce evidence that a Ukrainian SU-24 shot that plane down. Even the name and photograph of that Ukrainian pilot appeared on the Internet. He subsequently died. Dead men don’t talk.
Initial reports from the orc Air Traffic control room talk about the civilian plain being redirected over the Donbass away from its planed flight path. That’s the only evidence needed and spells out who was ultimitly responsible for the shoot down.
One observation is that Russia’s Ministry of Defense doesn’t refer to the missile presented by the JIT as “a missile that shoot down the MH17 flight.”
They call it “the BUK missile that is of interest to the Joint Investigation Team (JIT)” and “the BUK missile presented by the JIT.”
I, along with many other people, am convinced that the MH17 flight wasn’t shot down, and that the crash was staged on the ground by a staging crew. I analyze the staging video in my research on the war in Donbass in 2014.
https://saker.community/product/pokemon-in-ukraine-tactical-war-game-introduction-manual-pdf/
On the original video at 37:31 Igor Konashenkov says “these facts prove that the missile that was used, according to the investigation, to shoot down the Boeing, belonged to the Ukraine.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Oym9pDe2ek
That’s one I’d like to see. Staging a plane crash with wreckage left scattered across kilometers of terrain. All done in the middle of an active battlefield. That certainly sound easy enough to pull off.
“All done in the middle of an active battlefield”
If you read my research you would know that what you refer to as an “active battlefield” in Donbass 2014 were events staged and filmed by multiple production crews, just like the White Helmets production crews have been staging and filming “events” in Syria.
I have too many friends and comrades who were, and in may cases still are, up there and serving to agree with your thoughts of a staged event. Not a one of them has ever said anything beyond the orcs shot that plane down, and some of those we talked to during our refugee efforts not long after this multiple murder clearly stated that the orcs shot it down. It’s not like this was the first time the orcs did this.
Of interest is the recordings of the first Novorossiya units on sight as the wreckage was still burning strongly. The local Kommandeer, don’t know his rank but supposition is either Kapitan or Starshi Lutanant, arrived with the first few on scene and was recorded thus, shown and translated on youtube shortly after the event:
Kommandeer: “Who shot this one down?”
Soldier. “They did.”
“Who shot the other one down?”
Soldier. “We did.”
What ‘other one’? Did Opolchensya hit one of the two orc Dry’s that were shadowing the civilian plane and quite possibly administered the overkill shots that peppered the cockpit of the Boeing, hence the numerous EXIT holes in the left side of the cockpit and the absence of the right lower side debris from the cockpit area?
Auslander
Author
Sevastopol, The Third Defense. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079KRPLS4 Book 1, A Premonition, The Move South. Set against a backdrop of real events and real places, the reader is left to filter fact from fiction.
An Incident On Simonka https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ERKH3IU NATO Is Invited To Leave Sevastopol, One Way Or The Other.
Having worked in the film industry for 47 years, a decade in documentary news genre (several Academy Award nominees for Best Documentary, as well as work on over 800 film and TV productions,) I claim expertise I doubt you have, Scott.
NO F’ing way was that a staged event.
I’ve shot with multiple crews simultaneously across two Florida Indian reservations and I can assure everyone that the MH-17 event was real, not a false flag staged event.
Your observation is bogus. And impossible.
The area of debris and falling bodies was too wide a circumference. Too many “eyes”, and live reports.
Makes a great fictional version, you offer. I’ve written plenty of scripts, screenplays and novels (five) to know a good story or slant on a real event. Your version is totally creative, but unreal.
The zone was an active battleground bombarded for over a month so intensely (especially near the train station that is closest to the main area.) that the Ukies kept the inspection teams from arriving with long artillery shelling during the first month.
I’m not saying I have every fact in hand. But I know what is fantasy and bullsh*t and lies and deceptions. Your fantasy is very interesting. Useless, though, for people who want some sense of truth.
Just look at Ambassador Haley’s latest fantasy, that the Russians were behind the Kim poisoning in Malaysia airport of his brother. Fantasy, BS, lie and deception all in one. But it will “convince” millions Putin did it, nonetheless.
We don’t need a word that is not tied to hard facts. Speculation is very dangerous stuff. Keep it in the Fiction section of World Communications Library.
This all puts in jeopardy your outstanding factual reporting on other topics. You are trusted source. Don’t compromise that trust we have in you.
This, including Scott being a trusted source. I second Larchmonter’s admonition: Don’t compromise the trust we have in you.
Yeah and the smell of the corpses rotting in the summer heat – that many people recorded as happening.
Anon, lets go back in time. The whole story apparently went like this. MH-17 accordingly to reports was redirected by Ukrainian air control from it’s proper flight direction towards and over DPR where very hot war was going on. Some Spanish Flight Controllers in Kiev, who mysteriously disappeared shortly after their comment, said that there was a communication in Polish between that pilot of the plane(s) which was at first described as SU-24 (ground attack, low flight ceiling but just high enough to be on the level with MH-17), and possibly MIG29.
The cabin of MH-17 was riddled with cannon bullets from the airplane(s), but there were also indications of shrapnels from the BUK. DPR claimed it had no BUK, and showed pictures of the said BUK not far in the area controlled by the Ukrainian army. Shortly after, the people from DPR after the inspection if the bodies on the ground claimed the bodies to have very strong smell suggesting that the passengers on the plane were actually a dead cargo (this was as per Girkin on Ruskaya Vesna, or maybe on his pages). The West immediately started to push “Russia did it” BS. But, some western pilots (German?) looked at the pictures and said that the plane was certainly riddled with machine gun bullets (from another airplane). The argument here was such, that SU-24 could not fly at the level of MH-17, While Russians said that SU-24 could fly at that height. There were also some opinions that there could have been explosions inside the plane.
The main question is though, why was the plane redirected from the safe predefined path to right over the conflict area, if it was not intended to become a “victim of a provocation”.
I can also add, that VT (Veterans Today) had an extensive analysis of this event. They might still have the docs available.
I found the article by the German Pilot:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111
BTW, I sort of agree with Scott, because if we believe what Girkin (Strielkov) said at the time about the bodies stinking of “formalin or formaldehyde or whatever” (I am not a chemist) we have to accept the fact that the “passengers” were all loaded dead on the plane before it took off. Oh, one more thing, Strielkov always seemed to me to be a straight shooter and not a BS man.
“That certainly sound easy enough to pull off.”
It was. Very cleverly done, too. Blowing up an old airline, surreptitiously then transporting all the scattered bits to give a realistic presentation was a monumental feat, given nobody noticed them doing it. There was also the specialists scattering cadavers about, dropping them through roofs and such. Nobody saw the cranes. Very professional.
But most of all was the way the Russians were fooled. They actually thought it was a real plane they saw recorded on their radars. Amazing how the ukronazi, or israeli, piloted Su-25 was spoofed, as well.
No one in the West will believe the presentation because it comes from Russian Ministry of Defence.
Actually critical thinkers anywhere, including in the West, especially after 911, will not believe anything coming from anyone, including their own government.
But they will collect ALL evidence including apparently good tight extensive new evidence from the Russian Ministry of Defense and absurd old evidence from the Dutch authorities.
They will weigh the evidence coming from all sources a good long while, and over time, reject what is clearly contradictory, known to be false…and nonsensical in terms of motive…….and unless they are serving jurors in a court of law who are pressured to render a verdict in mere hours……and will render NO final verdict, cognizant of the fact that too much is still unknown to them for them to pretend to lay out with any accuracy the entirety of what actually happened.
However, they will weigh probabilities and keep those in the backs of their minds.
And that is what has happened over the last 3-4 years in the minds of millions of westerners, caused more by data compiled by independent research done by WESTERN analysts than data provided by Russia.
There have always been stupid, mind-controlled sheep.
What of it?
Sheep may be getting stupider than ever but that’s not the salient point, today. The salient point is that more persons than ever before are at least attempting to wake up and smarten up. And some are succeeding.
Therefore, your pessimism, while understandable, is not really fully warranted…or very productive.
At the time of MH17 I put forward the Russian and other alternative narratives with evidence to various friends. Apart from the few who know about 9/11 and we’re thus ‘woke’ I received indignant derision as a Putin sympathiser etc.
Now 4 years later when discussing false flag gas attacks in Syria or the Skripal case – same ‘unwoke’ friends far less sure of themselves- usually an uncomfortable nod and change of topic. The Empire is losing control of its narrative these days, looks unstoppable short of The Corporate Controlling Cabal pulling WW-III.
Do you know keyboard warriors Bellingcat is doing the investigation for JIT? Is this for xxxxxxx real?!
JIT acknowledges Bellingcat for the MH17 investigation. JIT gets their evidence from Bellingcat LOL
One of the early reports identified the ‘root cause’ of the loss of the plane. This was given as the decision by air traffic control to route the plane over a battlefield. Obviously this is important, as if the plane wasn’t there it couldn’t have been shot down. It the plane was routed south, then it would have been hundreds of miles away.
Of course, this has long since been flushed down the memory hole. The question of why the Ukrainian air traffic control gave this route to the plane is now forbidden to be discussed.
I have yet to see any testimony of any witnesses within BUK missile range of the crash site claiming to have seen a missile launch that day. A BUK missile launch is a highly visible event from a considerable distance, leaving a thick, persistent column of combustion products thousands of feet high. Launch could not have occurred without being seen by hundreds of locals.
No witnesses, no missile.
The plane was brought down by another aircraft. The missile parts presented by the commission had nothing to do with the crash; the new Russian evidence reveals that these parts were added to the evidence pile by operatives of Ukraine who had access to the investigation and ample opportunity to add false evidence into the collection of wreckage.
Well, as far as I can remember, some villagers saw a missile trail from the direction of Ukrainian army, or was it Azov.
Addition, mind you this was from the DPR people, they said that one of the Ukrainian Buk trucks was actually missing one missile. I do not remember seeing any pictures though.
How about an accurate English transcript. The English voice-over is unintelligble.
Tip: With stereo headphones, the English voice plays only in the right ear and the original only in the left ear, so if you use only the right headphone you can hear it very clearly…
I don’t disbelieve the manufacturer’s records in the slightest. About 30 years ago, I had the inner cocking lever in a Bofors 40/60 break, causing a misfire. Records were available to show that this particular inner cocking lever was made by a firm in the UK during WWII. They showed the firm, the name of the employee who machine the part, the date, and the name of the quality assessor. The Russian MOD’s evidence is totally believable!
The law of linear perspective that is cited about the video falsification, is not an absolute law. I did technical drawing for years. The idea is used for simplification of created drawings/art, technical productions. It does not apply to real world perspective, that can have many perspective points (vanishing points). The other evidence is much better, and so the point is not an objection to the Russian MOD conclusion, just a reservation to be careful about that part.
“It does not apply to real world perspective, that can have many perspective points (vanishing points).”
If the camera is tied down, not moving, perspective does not change, and if the lens is fixed, not zooming, perspective does not change. The vanishing point remains the same.
Motion picture matte painting technique is based on these verities.
The perspective points are determined not by the camera alone, but by the geometry and orientation of the objects in relation to the viewer/camera or artist/draftsman. This can readily be seen with square/rectangular boxes (or books or similar) held in and out of alignment in various positions and orientations. And perspective points for moving objects, relative to the viewer, are not fixed, example: rotating box.
A contrasting example is that of the uniform sphere (uniform lighting and surface) which has no vanishing point, no matter what is going on with the camera/viewer, as there is complete symmetry degeneracy. A glass sphere with highlights on inner and outer surfaces will show perspective, with the light and its distance and orientation being involved in the creation of perspective. Other objects have varying numbers of vanishing points and locations, depending on their geometries/symmetries.
A still photograph of several regular solids, say cubes, in different orientations, will have several vanishing points, not all of which will be in the field of view.
In the Russian video there is but one object. They solidly showed it to be fraudulently composited into the scenes.
All your theory is awesome. But irrelevant.
Show us how words disprove the Russian explanation.
Disprove their video. I’m open-minded to examine your visual proof.
His point is that the russians are correct. They show multiple vanishing points because the objects apparently in the video are not properly aligned with the road, as they should be.
Larchmotor445, you seem to be over-interpreting the posts. There is no statement about disproving the Russian video. The statements concern the level and degree of use as proof.
The fact that the location of the video, (in Lugansk?, the background indicated were it was, I believe), there could not possibly have been a Buk system there! Ukraine said all their AA were accounted for, and there were no Russian AA there in LNR/DNR (or where ever the location proved to be), so the video of the Ukraininan side had to be fake. (The LNR/DNR side clearly had no such AA). The Russians did not need to resort to the perspective concepts in their proof. The Ukrainian video/position was obviously fake/false.
Post said:
” The other evidence is much better, and so the point is not an objection to the Russian MOD conclusion, just a reservation to be careful about that part.”
The points about the vanishing points, were simply to point out that that is not the best line of proof. There is other good evidence that the video was fake. There was nothing in the post about disproving the Russian presentation. Larchmotor445 is over reacting.
I really wish Russia would find more competent translators for this briefings. This one was better than some others I’ve heard, but he still has to fumble and completely miss whole sentences from the briefer. Granted, I am not a translator, so I can’t say whether this is a common problem among translators, but I still get the feeling some of these guys aren’t that well versed enough in English to keep up.
As for the briefing itself, it would seem to pretty well establish that the missile that shot down MH17 was in service with the Ukrainian military. Critics will still suggest that it was a missile captured by the Donetsk militias, and the briefing did not answer that possibility too well, merely quoting Ukrainian officials as saying that was impossible.
The other area of weakness was the audio tape quoting the Ukrainian Air Force officer suggesting they would “bring down another Malaysian Boeing”, which by itself is not proof that he knew the first one was shot down by Ukraine. That individual should of course be questioned by the investigating team as to these statements.
In the end, of course, the whole MH17 is a propaganda effort and this briefing will be ignored by everyone who wants to see Russia and the Donetsk militias blamed for the incident.
Small point – a translator translates written documentation, an interpreter interprets spoken communication.
In fact it’s a major point.
When interpreting, it’s best if the speaker sticks fairly close to an agreed script and leaves spaces for the interpreter to “catch up.” The interpreter is likely to flounder if the speaker starts to extemporise and forgets about the interpreter. Especially when discussing technical issues.
At one time I did Spanish translation and interpreting for clients in areas of engineering and law.
The US and its Anglosphere and EU vassals don’t believe in or need truth. They only believe in winning by any means. The resident serfs in the West had better get the message that the US will sacrifice them as well.
Clearly Russia was set up for blame but why has it taken this long to identify a serial number? It should have been available within hours of finding this wreckage part. Who has this part of the wreckage? When was it found? What was the chain of custody?
The west will just say the manufacturing paperwork and trail was falsified -especially after all this time. Ukraine will ‘lose’ or destroy their paperwork if it is incriminating.
Apologies if the video explains this -no time for 30 min video.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard that the investigators actually have the missile, or parts thereof, since such a missile has an exploding warhead and thus they wouldn’t have a whole missile.
I do remember when the Russian manufacturer of the Buks said it was an old Buk of the type the Ukrainians had and that the Russians had long since retired from service. That analysis was based on the holes that the shrapnel from the missile had made in the wreckage of the plane that was recovered. Such a missile is basically just a large hand-grenade. The manufacturer pointed out that the early versions were designed to create shrapnel of a different shape from the later versions and that this was how they could tell the difference. Which means of course that they didn’t have any actual missile parts shown in evidence to examine.
The Just-In-Time commission had put out some evidence about claiming they could track the missile unit. Perhaps this new analysis is taking that JIT report and pointing out that oops, even your report shows it to be a Ukrainian missile?
The story is unclear as to who has the debris. From RT:
“On Monday, the Russian military announced that the serial numbers found on debris of the Buk missile that downed MH17 over eastern Ukraine show it was produced in 1986 and owned by the Ukrainian military.”
https://www.rt.com/news/438679-mh17-important-evidence-investigation/
Yes, one BUK version had butterfly shaped shrapnel quite unlike the other. None of the expected forensic tests were made on MH17 cockpit damage by the Ukrainians or Dutch -and with obvious good reason.
The propulsion end of the missile could realistically have parts with serial numbers that largely survived the exploding warhead -assuming it was a BUK and not an air-to-air missile with fake BUK parts added or simply BUK parts scattered amongst the wreckage post crash.
Well, the Russians were never allowed to touch anything. Everything got loaded on the trains and taken away to Holland.
The good thing was that Strielkov (Girkin), had his people photograph everything they could including and especially the fake passports of the passengers.
I suspect that Russia has this evidence but it keeps mum about it.
I believe The Saker said it all, back in Aug 2015:
/mh-17-one-year-later/
Excerpt:
“I believe that MH-17 was shot down by a Ukrainian SU-25. … All the pilot would have to do when given the signal was to sharply climb towards MH-17 and get inside the missile’s flight envelope (in this case within less than 8 kilometers of MH-17) and then fire off his R-60 missile. At that point, the missile would guide itself towards the biggest heat source of the aircraft – one of the engines.
The R-60 is a rather small missile and it would never be able to destroy a large airliner like the Malaysia Airways Boeing 777. But the R-60 is more than capable to destroy one of the Boeing’s engines. At this point, the airliner would rapidly lose speed and enter into a sharp turn while the pilots would be trying to figure out what happened, extinguish a burning engine and compensate for the increased drag. This is exactly what was observed on radars, by the way.
The rapid loss of speed and altitude would make the Boeing easy prey for the SU-25 which has a powerful cannon on board which would then easily catch up and finish off the attack with a volley of 30mm cannon fire. Having finished off it’s target, the SU-25 would then sharply turn and return to its base. This is exactly what the Russian radars saw.”
(I would add that the Ukrainian SU-25 pilot accused of being the ‘perp’ was found dead at his house, not long later. Suicide, or suicide-ed?)
That was the way I heard it too, not long after the event. The Russian MoD published the name of a Ukrainian pilot who was a ‘person of interest’, but never had a chance to interview him.
There were a lot of other loose ends, like the Spanish-speaking ATC worker who live-tweeted the event and then disappeared completely, along with his Twitter account.
All this searching of old records for a SA missile with a certain serial number seems like a wasted effort.
Looks like it hasn’t hit The Saker yet, but it will soon…
Russian Electronic Warfare plane IL-20 shot down over the skies of Syria (most likely intentional, either by the Israel or French frigate….)
https://www.rt.com/news/438673-russian-il20-disappears-radars/
USS Liberty ship v. 2.
The plane had to be hit to hide the true belligerents of the air attack on Latakia.
Time for the NO FLY to be enforced with deadly force.
And the clock clicks another notch foward to “bend-over, grab-your-ass, and kiss-it-goodbye” time.
Was this another Click? Or is it the final Boom that means the end of the world as we know it?
Could have been the French, who fired rockets?/missiles at Latakia.
Two terrorist governments, France and Israel, who feel threatened in the ME and NA by Russian presence.
Time is up. Russia cannot keep taking the losses. They do things their way, but a SuperPower has to kick ass and there are some big asses to kick tonight.
The S-400 could take care of the four F-16s with no problem, and one Kalibr would end the French naval platform.
Well, we’ll see and hear how Russia proceeds. Stakes are large and Russia alone can decide what they should do.
No facts, but I have a hard time picturing the French attacking on their own. I can believe they would be part of another F-UK-US coalition attack. But I’d want some confirmation before I believe the French fired on their own. The F-UK-US coaltion also seems to launch attacks for PR reasons, thus big media shows and announcements have always accompanied their attacks on the sovereign nation of Syria in the past.
Israel on the other hand, launches solo attacks on the sovereign nation of Syria all the time.
France or Israel?
In any case, ‘partners’ were involved.
Just this morning Flores at FortRuss claimed the missile to be French. As I said below, Syria gets to be the scapegoat in order to unload the tension and the possible WWIII as pushed for by the Israel. Flores suggests more missiles to have been fired at Lattakia, but nobody talks about any results, so I am not sure what to do with it. I guess we dismiss that one for now.
From Kommersant.ru, translated by Yandex.
Another story:
CNN: Russian Il-20 was accidentally shot down by Syrian air defenses
Russian Il-20 aircraft was shot down by Syrian air defense forces while trying to reflect a rocket attack from Israel, reports CNN , citing a source in the government of the United States. Another source confirmed to the channel that the strikes on the Syrian province of Latakia is Israel.
In turn, the official representative of the Pentagon stated that the United States is not implicated in the attacks on Syria. Who is behind them, he refused to talk.
Earlier, the defense Ministry announcedthat a Russian military plane IL-20 with 14 servicemen on Board has ceased to make contact at 23:00 on September 17. He was over the Mediterranean sea, 35 km off the coast of Syria. The fate of the crew unknown.
The defense Ministry said that the plane disappeared from the radar during the attack, Israeli F-16 fighters on Syrian targets in Latakia. In the IDF to comment on this information refused. In addition, the Russian Ministry said that during the disappearance of the Russian plane was recorded missile launch from a frigate of the French Auvergne.
grrr….I wish it was Israhel that caused this misfortune to poor Russia –
theres is not much difference. Both countries are under jewish control.
Don’t post that CNN trash here. The Syrians shooting down a friendly aircraft is extremely unlikely, especially when you consider that the Russian & Syrian AD systems are linked, and friendly aircraft are identified and cannot be fired upon.
This is the US lamely attempting to give diplomatic cover to the spoiled, arrogant fools and the rotten children who run the state of Israel.
It’s part of the Media presentation of Russian sources. So I posted it. What is good is we know it was a handout from US to CNN mouthpiece.
Israelis are silent. So should we not mention them.
French have said nothing. How should we deal with that.
Best to have all the reports to deal with. Especially since the MOD has not offered a cause or source of possible attack on the plane.
The first report I read said the plane was 35 kms. offshore. I think that is beyond the range of the Syrian air defenses. Pantsir-S2 range is 15 km.
Syria also has Buks. They range to 20 kms.
So, if the plane was 35 kms. off shore, it was safely out of range of Syria guns and surface-to-air missiles
For decades warplanes have had a system known as IFF, which I believe stands for Indentification Friend or Foe. In a situation where Russian planes were being tracked by Russian/Soviet made radars which are tied into the current Syrian defenses, there is no doubt whatsoever that the plane woule have been properly identified on the screens.
The only way I can even picture such a case would be if there was a traitor who’d been bought out by the west and who used the system to shoot down a known friendly aircraft. I’d imagine that such a traitor would have to disable system safeties. Perhaps over-ride the IFF and mark the aircraft as hostile before a missile could even be fired? And that of course only if that system happened to be within range as mentioned above.
Such a hypothesis would be one I’d consider to be rather unlikely compared to other possibilities.
Time will shortly let us know. The Russians I’m sure have copious data on what happened. Who fired what missiles from where and towards what targets and the exact track and timings of those missiles. A plane like this one would have tracked the missile that shot it down, and since the systems are networked that data would be transmitted in real time to others.
I’d say the Russians are reviewing this data now, except they would have known in real-time exactly who fired at that plane. The people in the command center at the airbase and likely on the ships at sea all watched it happen in real-time on their screens. No review would be neccessary.
Let’s put aside Russian plane.
The fact that Israel is using missiles flying over Russian bases in Syria is just another slap in the face of Russia.
Is there a tolerance limit for ‘partners’ and their provocations? So far I can not see any.
Turns out CNN’s version was the correct one. Amazing. That being said, the Israeli’s intentionally used the plane as cover, and the old antiquated S-200 missiles didn’t have a way to disengage from the target once it was aquired. Sad.
First of all I don’t believe a word CNN says. Typical Ziospam lies. Israel always reacts with a missile attack after every major defeat it suffers in Syria – this time Putin’s deal with Erdogan to clean out Idlib and open up communications to Northern Aleppo etc.
Also I saw rumours an Israeli jet was hit/damaged the other day SAA air defenses. This would be a typical Israeli response.
I suspect the Il-20 was one of the real targets of the missile attack and the missile attack on Syria was partly there to create a fog of war situation to cover the attack. Also I doubt Syria has any ir defense system that reach out to that range, unless there were missiles coming from that far out in the sea in which case it would be unfortunate if the IL-20 was actually hit by allied fire. In any case this would not have happened had not Israel/NATO decided to attack with missiles, so Israel/NATO is still ultimately the guilty party.
Russia and Putin needs to act accordingly. I’m sure they are taking in all the facts right now and will come up with the appropriate answer. Russia did not take the downing of the Su-24 lightly when it was shut down over Turkey.
Remember that the desperate party here is Israel and the US + vassal poodles France and the UK. It is THEY who are losing the war. It is THEY who cannot accept this fact and are trying to keep it going in order to destroy Syria. As long as Russia is in Syria it will take losses now and then, but the geopolitical and military strategic victory of defeating the Israeli/US invasion and keep Syria intact is worth it.
This attack is a naked Israeli/NATO aggression on Syria and Russia. Israel/NATO is stepping in now that their proxies the Jihadi terrorists are defeated. Time for Russia to respond accordingly.
Finally, it’s a typical moronic 4D chess move to pull a stunt like this to cover up bad news like the Buk missile serial number by the Russian MoD. Bad timing to release this news by the Russian MoD when Putin’s deal with Erdogan was sure to steal the headlines and now this attack on top.
I have read the same. While it’s very possible, if that plane was shot down by the French frigate or whoever, blaming it on Syria absolves Russia from taking serious steps. We will not know what really happened, will we. Russia’s MOD, was it?, called in the Israeli’s and waved their finger at them. I guess that’s how it’s going to stay for now. On the other hand, it seems the West prevails, and Russia’s stands down and it’s MOD says no attack on Idlib, or so they say. Whatever Erdo did to convince Putin in Sochi, worked.
so what does it mean ? Israel shot a Russian plane out of the sky ? They haven’t found the plane on the ground – its just missing ?
It seems to have something to do with Israhel – if so – this is senandipously – something that has long needed to happen – that Russia turns on Israhel – THAT would be a world good fortune event – but sadly and tragically at the same time.
I suppose by now there’s more info on that disappeared plane
An RT report says the plane was approximately 35 miles out to see off the coast of Latakia when it disappeared from radars. Which would explain a lack of wreckage on the ground.
https://www.rt.com/news/438673-russian-il20-disappears-radars/
BTW, given the type of plane that it was, no enemy can possibly claim that they thought the plane was a threat to them that had to be shot down. Such ELINT planes are very noticeable by the routes and speed they fly. They can not be mistaken for a combat plane. Most likely this was a routine patrol that’s been flying the area every day for a couple of years.
A key statement cam from the US denying any involvement. For once I’m inclined to believe this. This means either Israel or the French have overstepped the line and the US has gree-lighted Russia to give them the kicking they deserve, as soon as the evidence is in.
BTW no way could the be from a Syrian air defence (Russian made and fully integrated with Russian radars)
This is turning into a free-for-all against Syria, with the only caveat being to not directly target Russia.
Now, with this plane and crew likely lost as a direct result of these attacks on Syria, can Putin not react and still retain credibility, both at home and abroad?
Also, this has to have been an attack coordinated by Israel and France. The US had to have given the nod to this attack. This is no longer a thinly disguised civil war; it is a war against Syria.
Since 2011, it has been a war against Syria. It has not let up and won’t let up until Russia finishes it.
The US and France, along with Israel and UK are determined to destroy Damascus, Assad, and move the Russian’s out.
They are fashioning a multi-proxy insurgency war using leftover ISIS, AQ and Kurds.
Meanwhile, they are daring the Russians to engage in a war that will bring all NATO and US power with Israeli air power upon the small Russian force.
In other words, zionazi lost patience and now they are raising the bar a bit higher. As Saker said it, with each click we are getting closer to a full out war.
Israel has been consistently trying to spur further escalations in Syria. For example, the last time Trump appeared to dither over launching misssiles at Syria, Israel attacked a Syrian airbase just before. Israel appears to be trying hard to lure the US and the diminishing group of allies into a fullscale war. Not just with Syria but also the wider regional war with Iran. Netanyahu has routinely over the course of years done his best to try to start a major war with Iran. Netanyahu would of course prefer to have others do all the fighting for it.
Israhel is not going to start WW3 – if they did shot down that plane – which, come to think of it – they probably DID NOT do – – Then the Russians will adjust their plans to include Israhel as an enemy –
The israeli know pretty well that Russia will never ever retaliate against them,as 1.2 million Russians live in Israel.They have an ulimited free lunch.
The French still puzzle me. For instance, when RT at one point refers to ‘missiles’ and the Russian MOD refers to ‘rockets’, I’d love to know just what they mean? Such terms are very vague when the such a French Frigate can have anything from anti-air missiles to cruise missiles. Which leaves a wide range of circumstances between the Frigate shooting down the plane to the Frigate launching a cruise missile attack on whatever got attacked on the ground in Syria. More information about this will surely come, and it will help clarify what’s going on.
French may have shot down a Russian plane with 14 crew members off the coast of Latakia
Russia registred Rocket Launched From French Frigate in Mediterranean
on Monday – 01:41 18.09.2018
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201809181068115950-russia-registered-missile-launches/
Russia MoD Blames Israel for Attack wich Led to Downing of II-20 by Syria
09:54 18.09.2018
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201809181068121621-france-russia-plane-syria/
Unconfirmed reports are that for whatever reason, S 400 Air Defense systems were in action during the attack. If so, this confirms a number of things, including the fact that S 400 is in the AO, and Russia considered this attack to be serious enough to back up SAA air defense.
Unconfirmed report:
‘Launches of the missiles from French Frigate Auvergne (FREMM-class) are detected while four IAF F-16 attacked Syria. These are red line news in Russia now (in Russian) and French better pray that it is just a coincidence. It is a fog of war now but if Auvergne launched her Asters we may be facing some major escalation. For now it is not clear what kind of missiles (TLAM–Scalp, or AD–Aster) were launched from French frigate.’
With CNN already pulling the self shoot down crap, in my mind that tells me our enemies shot it down.
Auslander
I’d have to look up which ships are in the region, and what equipment each carries. But I’ve gotten the impression before that some Russian navy ships carry the equivalent of S-300 or S-400 missile systems. Thus it seems at least possible that such a system might have been on a ship offshore. In fact, I kinda guessed that this was a likely reason why the Russians suddenly beefed up their naval deployment off the Syrian coast. It would be a quick way to get more and advanced air defense systems into place.
The media reports all usually mentioned that the ships had cruise missiles, but since the Russians can fire cruise missiles from the Caspian and hit targets in Syria, that made little sense. But sending more air defenses to the area at a time of tension made a lot of sense.
I still consider that any suggestion that a Russian or Syrian missile shot down this plane to be misinformation. I’ve been wrong before, but that seems very unlikely that this was friendly fire with modern systems and the fact that this plane probably flew there 24/7 so every missile operator in the area would have been very used to seeing it on its screens and would have known exactly what it was. The operators probably all have some nickname for the flight.
Of course the enemy (“colleagues”, “partners”) shot it down. That airplane was an obstacle to the probing and testing of the Syrian air defense system in which Israel is engaged. The down airplane it was a platform for electromagnetic warfare so it was mandatory to destroy it. Israel did it now and they did it in the past (Liberty…) and they will do it in the future too because they just don’t care about USA or Russia or NATO, UN or any entity one can think about. Unfortunately nothing will happen…we already know the drill…the chess master…crotalus adamanteus …no moral obligations…long term strategy.. and so on…
RT
Serial numbers of missile that downed MH17 show it was owned by Ukraine-MoD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2-Z0pDQ8Bo
Roman Tsimbalyuk (Russophobic Ukrainian journalist, friend of Arkady Babchenko)
A new version of the attack on MH17 or the curse of the controller of Carlos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cInyAWJsxLA
There is a contact (with Maria Zakharova): it’s impossible to listen to Ukrainian propaganda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O82tH1qX-wk
You can change the videos’ subtitles to English
Robert Parry
What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine? – July 20, 2014
https://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/
Troubling Gaps in the New MH-17 Report – September 28, 2016
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/09/28/troubling-gaps-in-the-new-mh-17-report/
Reports are:
Shot down by Syria air defense. Israeli plane apparently passed just in front of the plane, SAD got a lock, Israeli doglegged left, missile lost lock and chose the biggest target…..our plane. Jews violated protocol, called one minute before the attack, not enough time for our bird to get out of the way.
It was a setup.
I hope this crime will put an end to zionazi routine bombardment of Syria. It is time to arm Syria adequately and finish this war by the end of year. Peace on Earth.
Yes, Auslander, it was a setup, and a cynical one at that, just like MH-17.
Israel has taken RF’s friendship for granted hasn’t it? From what I’ve read RF leadership from VVP and Shoigu down are furious. There’s talk of ‘reserving right of reply’ from the Russians who didn’t resort to such language even when the Turks shot down the Su-24. VVP may be reluctant to retaliate forcefully because he doesn’t want the Syrian problem to become bigger than it already is, but he will do something with an effect just as forceful as a direct attack on the Israeli AF not least to placate the RF General Staff and RF Forces in Syria who know the whole story, and have lost friends as a result of Israeli impudence. The criminal State of Israel may have made a big, even strategic, mistake here. Instead of thumping Syria seeing that it was a Syrian missile that brought down the Ilyushin, Russia has defended Syrian AD’s action and instead placed the blame squarely on ‘the only democracy’ in the ME for the loss of the plane and crew. Even the host country, US of A, has distanced itself from the parasite state’s actions this time. And the brave French are keeping mum.
How I wish the reply would be some RF SAM hitting IAF F-16/15s (or French Rafale, come to think of it) over the Med or a squadron of TU-160 softening the Golan for an SAA assault but of course, for good reason, that won’t happen. Most likely reply is RF delivering S-300 to Syria or Kalibers landing in Idlib on top of FUKUS/Israeli/Saudi ‘advisers’. That would hurt just as much.
Basil
For those who want info refresher from 2014-07, I found some articles.
In English:
https://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/07/26/not-terrorists-hysteria-over-mh17-fails-to-take-account-of-both-law-and-facts/
https://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/the-propaganda-and-politics-of-mh17.html
https://nodisinfo.com/mh17-passport-staging-proves-hoax-nodisinfo-video/
/evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh17-is-a-false-flag-operation/
https://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/
https://www.rt.com/news/421328-mh17-russia-accused-no-evidence/
These were in Russian:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405689523
http://trueinform.ru/modules.php?name=News&sid=28572
https://www.dv.kp.ru/daily/26278.4/3155339/
https://meduza.io/feature/2018/09/17/ot-ukrainskogo-su-25-do-buka-iz-ternopolskoy-oblasti-kak-menyalis-zayavleniya-rossii-o-krushenii-malayziyskogo-boinga
I could go on and on. Oh, yes it was SU-25 and not 24 as I said earlier.
VT, had some conspiracy theories regarding Malaysian planes. Because, let me refresh your memory, Malaysia lost two planes at that time. First one took off some place in China? It vanished mysteriously. Some pieces were said to have been found much later at the bottom of the Ocean, way off course. VT claimed this airplane to be photographed on the land someplace (they did specify the place, but I am not).
Now we are coming to MH-17, which accordingly to VT may have been swapped with the other one. Accordingly to that story the bodies from the first plane were used for the false flag in Ukraine.
How is that for good thriller story? Do with it what you want. Scott, may have referred to these events, when he said what he said.
I found some stuff, but it looks like VT ditched the article. This article references the VT page:
https://mediachecker.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/malaysia-air-flight-370-facts-of-the-flight-and-10-possible-scenarios/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/flight-370-did-not-disappear
It is really unfortunate that the IL-20 downing has effectively derailed this discussion. A previous comment that the MoD’s timing of their announcement about the Buk serial numbers was poor assumes incorrectly that the MoD has control over the news cycle. Far from it. I think the timing had something to do with the
Can we get this discussion back on track please?
The joint announcement by the DSB and JIT occurred 8/11/15. They announced that missile parts were found during a previous recovery mission and are in the custody of the DSB and JIT. They announced that the parts could be from a Buk missile but that no causal connection had been established at that time between the parts and the crash of MH17.
http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014/onderzoek/1650/investigation-into-possible-buk-missile-parts#fasen
It was the JIT’s principal liar Fred Westerbeke who said on 8/11/15 that 7 parts were found.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMm0inIWQsU
What the DSB and JIT didn’t say on 8/11/15:
1. What parts were found.
2. Who found the parts.
3. When the parts where found.
4. Where the parts were found.
5. How the parts presumably arrived at the location(s) where they were found.
We know that on 10/21/15 Oleg Storchevoy in his capacity as Deputy Head of Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency (Rosaviatsia) complained that Russia was not given access to the parts and that the DSB and JIT refused to disclosed the serial numbers. Russia knew that the Buk parts most likely to survive the warhead’s detonation would include the engine and nozzle, and that these parts have serial numbers.
http://sputniknews.com/world/20151021/1028890923/malaysian-official-complains-mh-17-crash-probe.html
I’m not 100% sure when serial numbers were released into the public domain. I think it was 5/24/2018 when the JIT made a public appeal for information about the serial numbers. The JIT complained indirectly yesterday that Russia didn’t disclosed serial number information sooner. But it was the JIT who stonewalled Russia apparently for years about the serial numbers.
Now the JIT has a real mess on their hands. The serial numbers were from a 9M38 missile which didn’t have butterfly-shaped warhead fragments. The JIT must backtrack either on the assertion that the warhead contained butterfly-shaped parts or on the implication that the discovered parts had something to do with the crash of MH17.
Russia declassifies only what they need to declassify. They’re more interested in establishing that MH17 was not shot down by Russia or a Russian proxy. They’re less interested in establishing who did the deed or by what means, although they’re happy to point accusing fingers at Ukraine.
http://www.atimes.com/article/russia-reveals-the-mh17-smoking-gun/
Russia knows perfectly well that a Buk didn’t shoot down MH17. That knowledge doesn’t obligate them to declassify what they know and how they know it.
This is exactly the point. Right from the beginning the West asked Ukraine, out of all the parties?, to investigate the events. The culprit investigating itself? Really?
What you are saying is exactly correct. Russia does not and will not get into stupid shouting matches. Particularly when it knows that the cards are stacked against her from the beginning. Skripal case is the same. Russia has been accused before the events got cooked up.
The IL20 provocation is just another link in the chain of events. The chain is supposed to lead us to the destruction of Russia.
I meant to conclude the 1st paragraph of my previous comment by saying that I think the MoD’s timing of their announcement is related the the 73rd session of the UN General Assembly which starts today. MH17 probably will be included in the General Debate which starts 9/25/2018 and is scheduled to last 9 working days.
Let me first state my personal suspicions about the downing of flight MH-17: from the moment flight MH-17 was shot down, I have suspected a false-flag operation by the USA and/or the Ukranian army and so far I have not seen any credible evidence to the contrary.
About this new evidence presented by the Russian army, I find the tracking of the serial numbers highly convincing, to the point of being incontrovertible proof ( the smoking gun) of the Ukranian army’s responsabillity. It’s also (dangerous phrase nowadays ;-) “highly likely” that the USA was involved as well, because they needed to get the EU to participate in the sanctions against Russia as well and until the shooting down of flight MH-17 the EU did not yet want to put sanctions on Russia (so the USA had a strong motive for this false-flag operation)
However, the part of the perspective lines I don’t find convincing at all. As a civil engineer, I know about perspective lines: during my study I had to make perspective drawings. They’re quite technical, geometrical drawings: horizontal lines running paralel to eachother converge to the same point on the horizon.
But one cannot presume that a BUK vehicle loaded on a trailer is alligned parrallel to the road: the (considerable) weight of the BUK vehicle pushes the trailer down and the truck pulling the heavy trailer wil be pushed down at the rear end. So one can expect the point convergance of the truck to be pointed above the horizon while the trailer is pointed below the horizon (presuming the road itself is horizontal). In fact, this is exactly the situation shown (at 13:38 min) on the video.
By the way, this part of the video (perspective and light-fall) is very poorly translated, so I may have misunderstood some parts of it.
I decided, if permitted, to fill your heads with “Hmm?” and sort of refresh the info, wile promote some conspiracy theories. All the links point to articles from ~July 2014 and show the flight paths:
This article has the flight paths:
http://impiousdigest.com/players-terror/
or the same here (complete?)
http://impiousdigest.com/players-terror/all/1/
Download it’s pdf version here:
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
Madsen wrote this (two locations of the same):
https://www.sott.net/article/282898-NATO-MH17-Mossad-and-Kolomoisky-Beware-the-Chameleon
http://themillenniumreport.com/2014/07/mh-17-and-nato-excercise-breeze-2014%E2%80%B3/
Another article:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/23/ukraine-mh-17-and-the-charge-of-the-atlanticist-brigade/
Dutch Safety board preliminary report:
http://www.dca.gov.my/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Preliminary-Report-MH17.pdf
From the hose’s (Dutch horse) mouth:
https://onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014/preliminary-report/1562/preliminary-report-points-towards-external-cause-of-mh17-crash
This article refers to the article in RT:
https://yournewswire.com/mh17-broke-up-in-mid-air-due-to-external-damage-dutch-preliminary-report/
Article from Australia:
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/malaysia-airlines-mh17-passenger-had-oxygen-mask-on-dutch-foreign-minister/news-story/71b28864688547516b56be7d7523e00e
Article critical of Dutch report:
https://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2014/09/dutch-mh17-investigation-omits-us-intel.html
Here is one interesting:
/mh17-report-taken-apart-by-saker-reader/
One last one:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/07/how-us-satellites-pinpointed-source-of-missile-that-shot-down-airliner/
MH17 was directed away from normal flight path to where it was shot down by Ukraine Air Control, plus Malaysia was in US cross-hairs for Trying bush & blair in-absentia, found them Guilty for War & Crimes against Humanity in Iraq & was pursuing ICC Arrest Warrants.
Then there is the notion of Freescale Chinese Engineers on board both Malaysian Flights who were part owners of Patents for Radar-Cloaking & Anti-Hacking Tech which left Freescale as Sole Owner of those Patents that Freescale has since sold without any outside bidding.