[this article was written for the Unz Review]
This week Russian officials declared that the delivery of S-300s for Syria was completed and that this first batch included 49 pieces of “military equipment”, including radars, control vehicles and four launchers. Russian officials added that, if needed, this figure could be increased to 8-12 launchers. Defense Minister Shoigu added that “the measures we will take will be devoted to ensure 100 percent safety and security of our men in Syria, and we will do this”. This leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
First, it is still unclear which version of the S-300 was delivered to Syria. Some sources say that this might be the S-300PMU2, others mention the S-300VM while, yet other sources speculate that this might be an S-300V4 or its export version the Antey-2500. I will spare you the technical details (those interested can look at the pretty detailed Wikipedia entry here), but it should be noted that until the specific version of the S-300 becomes known it will be very hard to assess the potential impact of this delivery. The original S-300s are by now maybe not obsolete, but most definitely not the bleeding edge of air defense technologies. (The first S-300s entered service with the Soviet military in the late seventies!). But the newest version of the S-300s are very close in capabilities to the S-400 system and thus rank among the most capable air defense systems ever built. For example, a lot has been made from the fact that the Israelis have had many years to study the S-300s delivered to Greece, but what is often overlooked is that the version delivered to Cyprus and which was later re-deployed to Greece was the (relatively outdated) S-300PMU-1. The probability that the Russians would deliver this version to the Syrians is close to zero. However, when I think of Israeli Defense Minister (and bona fide nutcase) Lieberman declaring that “one thing needs to be clear: If someone shoots at our planes, we will destroy them. It doesn’t matter if it’s an S-300 or an S-700” he probably was told by the Israeli military analysts that the S-300 is not that formidable a weapon and missed the fact that they were referring to the older version and not the kind of kit the Russians would be using nowadays.
What is sure is that just four launchers are not very many, but are enough to protect any one specific part of Syria. They will also increase the overall number of Russian/Syrian air defense missiles thus helping to achieve the officially stated goal of ensuring “the 100 percent safety” of the Russian forces in Syria. However, this is certainly not enough to create a complete no-fly zone over the entire country, at least not against a large scale attack.
Still, the Russians already have S-300s (and even S-400) in Syria and 4 more launchers do provide them with some additional firepower, but not any new capabilities. I think the most likely explanation is that the S-300s delivered to the Syrians will protect a few important strategic Syrian targets (Damascus?) while, at the same time, adding firepower to the (rather small) Russian task force in Syria. As for the statement that an additional 4-8 launchers could be delivered, that is both a sign that the Russians want to keep their options open while, at the same time, creating a deliberate ambiguity about how much firepower they actually possess at any one given moment in time.
Second, I will repeat what I said before: S-300s are not what the Syrians need most. In terms of anti-air missiles, what they need most are higher numbers of Pantsirs-S1/2 mobile medium to short range air defense systems. Not only are the Pantsirs ideal to protect against cruise missile strikes, they can also protect the S-300s, which will become a critical issue if the Israelis decide to try to destroy them (which they threatened to do in the past).
What S-300s primarily add to the Syrian capabilities is not so much the ability to intercept more missiles, but the ability to track and engage AWACS and other battle management and reconnaissance aircraft at very long ranges. In theory, an S-300V4 could make it impossible for the Israelis to put up an AWACS at any useful range. The AWACS would either have to remain too far to be of use, or take the huge risk of being shot down by a high speed and very maneuverable missile (S-300V4 missiles have a flight envelope of 400 km at Mach 7.5 or of 350 km at Mach 9!). If the Israelis conclude that the Syrians now have S-300V4’s, they will have to dramatically decrease their air operations in Syria and will switch to tactical (ground to ground) ballistic missiles and long range artillery systems. More S-300s also improve the overall radar coverage and will close some gaps created by the Syrian mountain ranges.
Third, it remains equally unclear, perhaps deliberately, which electronic warfare systems Russia has deployed (or will deploy) in Syria and in what numbers. Possible candidates include the Zhitel R-330Zh electronic intelligence and jamming system, the Borisoglebsk-2 RB-301B electronic warfare weapon system and the Krasukha-4 jamming system. As for the automated command and control system which might be deployed to Syria, my guess is that the Polyana D4M1 would be a prime candidate. Whatever the actual mix will be in the end, I would argue that this presents a more formidable capability than additional S-300 launchers. Sure, this is apples and oranges, but we have to keep in mind that these electronic warfare systems are extremely powerful force-multipliers which can dramatically increase both the Russian and the Syrian defensive capabilities by jamming GPS signals, datalinks, cellphone signals (used for targeting and intelligence), radars, by creating false targets and even by destroying electronics. Electronic warfare is one field in which the Israelis have always enjoyed a huge superiority over their Arab victims and the fact that this has now changed is an extremely distressing development for them, even if they will never admit it.
As predicted, the Israelis have declared themselves both superior and invulnerable so they will continue their policy of (completely illegal) aggression against Syria. They have several options here: the Israelis might decide to stick to basically symbolic attacks against unprotected targets and declare each time that they have destroyed a huge depot of Hezbollah missiles or a Syrian chemical weapons plant. That would greatly help to bolster Netanyahu’s “patriotic” credentials while keeping the real action at a purely symbolic level. The second option would be to use ballistic missiles and long range artillery and strike some real targets. Finally, the Israelis could try to launch a complex and large air attack on the Syrian air defense systems in an attempt to show that S-300s are no big deal for them. The option of using ballistic missiles is probably the most likely one (and if the Syrians don’t keep their S-300s fairly close to each other (so they can protect each other), the Israelis might also be able to destroy them). That is a rather risky plan since, if successful, it would just result in more air defense system deliveries from Russia. This is something the USA might strenuously object to since every time the Russians deliver military hardware to the Syrians to protect them against the Israelis, they also improve the Syrian capability to defend their country against US/NATO/CENTCOM attacks (the delivery of S-300s to the Syrians is just as much a disaster for the USA as it is for Israel so I imagine that the US commanders are rather angry with the Israelis for creating this situation).
It is important to keep in mind that while the S-300s are certainly formidable air defense systems, they are not a Wunderwaffe which could, by itself, prevent the Israelis from attacking Syria. The latest delivery of military hardware from Russia will definitely mark a sharp increase in the Syrian (and Russian) defense capabilities, but if the Israelis are determined to continue striking Syria, the Russians will have to deliver even more systems.
Speaking of the Israelis, their big delegation which traveled to Moscow apparently only succeeded in further irritating the Russians. I had speculated that they might present some kind of exculpatory evidence but I was wrong: apparently, they had nothing to say besides “Iran is bad” and “Syria is responsible”. This is what caused the Russians to show a record of the radar data of the Russian S-400 in Syria to prove that every words of the Israelis were lies, lies and more lies.
I see that as yet another proof of the absolutely amazing combination of gross incompetence and breathtaking arrogance of the Israelis. The way they conducted their entire attack is already a testimony of their gross lack of professionalism, and they only added insult to injury when they showed up in Moscow and looked the Russians straight in the eyes and lied about everything (even though they must have known that Russians had it all recorded second by second). When Putin spoke of a “chain of tragic circumstances” he was very politely trying to give them an out as long as they apologized and compensated the Russians, but to the Israeli Herrenvolk that would have been totally unacceptable. They did what they always do: they doubled down and accused all their critics of antisemitism. What else is new?
In conclusion I will say that, while I might very well be wrong, I still don’t believe that the Israelis had some sophisticated plan to achieve some still to be determined goal. During the past year the Israelis informed the Russians about their planned airstrikes in Syria via their deconfliction line only in 10% of the cases. For the remaining 90% they did not even bother, in spite of having promised to do so in their agreement with Russia. In sharp contrast, the Russians always informed the Israelis of their operations, as did the Americans towards the Russians. But the Israelis simply think that they don’t have to abide by any kind of norms of behavior. That kind of contempt for agreements (and for non-Jews in general) is typical of the Israeli mindset and it will eventually bring the downfall of the last openly racist regime on the planet.
The Saker
“Is typical of the Israeli mindset and it will eventually bring the downfall of the last openly racist regime on the planet.”
-South Africa leaders openly sing about killing white people, create racial laws to ban people born with certain skin color from education and work and proclaim it is okay to take the farms and homes of people if they belong to the wrong race. Jewish racism in Israel seems rather subtle compared SA blacks to be honest.
SA leaders (ANC) openly killing each other using professional hit men.
doesn’t argue for stability. Israel may still “be the last”.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-01/south-african-politicians-are-killing-each-other
Anonymous those policies in South Africa have been there since 1996, and can you tell me what has happened in all that time. Absolutely nothing, every single RSA president has talked about land redistribution, and it has never happened, even now it hasn’t happened. And who are South African leaders a 35 year old Julius Malema who got 5% in the last elections, get real. By the same token I can go find any crazy in any country and say that person is a leader.
The only thing that will make land redistribution happen is idiots who go to America and fox news and cry about white genocide when more black farmers are killed. Afriforum must be the most stupid organisation to be formed, every single thing they protested has made things worse, their members openly carry old RSA flags and hope for a return to that form of government, how does that impact on policies, I’ve even started believing they are psyop by the english. Every single thing they put their nose in makes things worse for Afrikaners, the funny thing is most Afrikaners are in exactly the same position blacks are.
You conflate racism with affirmative action which addresses historical grievances. White South Africans benefited from the brutal exploitation of the colonized Africans. Afrikaner’s well-being and wealth is directly a consequence of the pain and suffering of the exploited Africans.
You go girl, defending murderers because they have your favorite skin color.
But that someone calling him/herself El Cid is beyond pathetic is not a surprise.
———–
Please take further discussion on South Africa to the page on S/Africa or the Moveable Feast.
From the moderator.
Thanks for going-off topic…
The Saker
how do you know..you have been there during such outbursts?
you have proof?
you read like Hillary and the american democrats
from the comment section at MoA 10/4/18
Virgile @10
Actually France has lost it since Macron came to power.
– The recent Israeli bombing attempt in Latakia had an Israeli aircraft firing a missile from directly over the French frigate “Auvergne”. (As well as downing a Russian plane) The French did NOT fire even if this was at first suggested. Putin did not mention or blame France, which surprised some, but it is clear in hindsight that P knew that the French did not fire the missiles.
BUT, NATO, the Israelis, and the US were all using the French frigate as a deliberate expendable target to entice the Syrians to destroy/fire on it. A NATO member would have then been a “victim”, and the planned upgrade from a financial war to a shooting war could be engineered.
I wonder if the french military command appreciated being used as a live target? France was reluctant to Join NATO under De Gaulle, but under Macron it has become a NATO plaything.
(Postscript: The threat to “blockade Russia” was not a one-off unofficial statement, but was probably what was planned if the massive missile attack on Syria had gone ahead. The guy probably heard this from a pre-briefing and blurted it out anyway)
Posted by: stonebird | Oct 4, 2018 9:34:20 AM | 10
…
your turf Mr Saker. your view?
..
We have a comments section here, why repost comments from other (even very good) sites?
The Saker
“why repost comments etc...”
because this assertion if true, (that France was being set up in a provocation to justify escalation) ramifies in several directions.
(…)
you’re the expert Saker and you know France and you’re ducking the question.
Yes, indeed, I am. And that is why I don’t waste my time replying to nonsense based on nothing and used by desperate folks as clickbait. That is their wet dream: to get experts to engage them and their clickbaits as if they were experts too and their opinions valuable. Well, they ain’t and they ain’t :-)
I am not “ducking” anything, I am ignoring clickbaiting nonsense, that’s all.
Finally, there are a number of mostly irrelevant websites which try to raise their visibility by posting links to them in my comments section. That is rather underhanded, I think. If these guys were any good, I would gladly and freely promote them (like I do with all the websites I list as “news sources”. But since they are not worthy of being promoted in the first place, they come like parasites to my comments section to try to promote themselves.
Why should I let them do that?!
Nah, I flush my mental toilet and simply ignore them. A much sounder approach, imho ;-)
The Saker
I have posted a reply to this in the Café section since it is off-topic.
LeDahu,
Here’s the link to your reply on Cafe.
/moveable-feast-cafe-2018-10-04/#comment-567166
LeDahu, I do not regard Bogdan’s contribution as off-topic. It concerns the very reason for the introduction of those new anti-air defenses into Syria. By reminding us that Israel’s treachery against Russia was also a treacherous act against France. Like its previous treachery against the U$A (USS Liberty) — each of those 3 was an act of murderous treachery designed to drag a partner or ally of Israel into a war that would profit Israel alone. Were it not for that murderous act of Israeli treachery, Russia would not have given Syria the S-300 today.
When is France going to respond to Israeli aircraft putting a French warship at risk? Or did Macron collude in this act of treachery against his own armed services?
Niko,
I agree with your comment. Putin must have not thought that France was part of this treachery. I am guessing he must be convinced that Israel and it’s lapdogs used French ship as a patsy. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that France is not Israel’s lapdog as well.
@Anonius. Especially since Micron is a former Rothschild employee, and Israel is the flagship Rothschild enterprise.
A UK Tornado also flew out of Cyprus towards (into into?) Syrian airspace at the time of the attack. I suspect theu French and the UK were roped in to provide plausible deniability as to who was responsible for the incident (or that was the plan). The Russian intelligence capabilities and ability to focus on the organ grinder, not the monkies foiled that approach.
Incidentally theere has been a rash of western+Israeli intelligence gathering flights in the eastern med since the arrival of the S-300s etc. Even the Greeks are involved now. One of their HAF330 Embraer EMB-145H AEW&C aircraft has made extensive flights close to Syrian airspace, possibly giving cover to a USAF RC-135V Rivet Joint 64-14848 snooping flight.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoktDruXUAAdQex.jpg
Since the pre-meditatated controlled demolition of the Greek economy by the (((banksters))), Greece has increasingly moved to anti-Russia, pro-terrorist state stance.
Anon, The problem with Greece is as follows:
They are under tremendous pressure from EU, or whoever. Why? The governing coalition is ready to collapse, and Tsipras with his gang are so desperate to stay in power, they do anything for Globalists. I see them artificially kept in power just like the government of Ukraine. Both are is the same situation, although Ukraine is not in EU or Nato. And Just like Ukraine, this Greek government seems to be extremely friendly with Israel forgetting Greece’s historical deep ties with Palestinians.
France was in NATO until de Gaulle withdrew from the Military Planning Command and created a separate French command at Mons. Macron is simply a little boy playing in the sandbox.
Israel thinks it can play “the Polish Card” and trick an empire into going to war for it by provoking and deceiving…….with only 21 years at peace since 1776 Americans might be getting somewhat tired of militaristic bombast
“the measures we will take will be devoted to ensure 100 percent safety and security of our men in Syria, and we will do this”
Shoigu’s statement implies their purpose is only for the safety of Russians. This implies Russian control.
If the Israeli / Russian “agreement” (not to inform the Syrians) is unchanged and control of the use of these items remains with Russia then their supply is practically irrelevant.
But still, at the briefing Shoigu said that the system would be manned by syrians
If the instructions are from Russia (assuming pact with the devil still in place) the manning by Syrians is immaterial.
The Syrian S300,s would initially be manned by very experienced Russian operators, no way would Russia allow the Israelis the success of an immediate surprise attack.
Shoigu’s statement implies their purpose is only for the safety of Russians. This implies Russian control.
It does no such thing. In fact, the Russians were clear that withing a few months the Syrian crews would be fully trained. However, it is true that adding capabilities to the Syrian military does also contribute to the safety of Russian personnel.
The Saker
I think it does imply such thing. The Russians want to hold a trump card and not let Syrians destabilize the skies above them and Russian relations with their “Western partners” (including Israel).
Dave and Saker, I sort of agree with both of you.
First of all, Russia by announcing that Syria is in control of those S300’s officially says that, if those missiles are used it’s all Syria’s doing, which in turn has all the right to do it as it’s defending its territory.
Second of all, here is where I agree with Saker, Russia does retain control of those S300, which are part of “Central Command Center” as Shoygu said. So, if needed Russia can use them at any time.
BTW, I do not doubt that for the next three months if not more Syrians will be apprentices at that Command Center, which means that they will hone their skills as well as learn to work with Russians, the “Russian way”.
Which in my mind means: “Leaving their Pantsirs unattended is not allowed”, as well as “No coffee breaks or prayers while operating equipment”. My apologies to our Muslim friends here, but this is the way things work in real world.
Justification
Russia under Putin is very careful to take steps that are clearly justified by current circumstances and reflect narrow concerns for self interest. Contrast this with Hegemon’s habit of declaring nothing but good intentions for the entire world, then bombing indiscriminately anyone they consider a threat to their delusions of super-powerdom under the nebulous banner of freedom, liberty, and righteousness, all to combat terrorism.
Russia’s actions are defensible in any court of law where logic prevails. Hegemon must resort to the narrative, the megaphone, and to the short memories of docile, freedom loving zombies.
Purpose
The addition of modern S-300 missile defense systems to Syria’s capability is justified as a means to target hostile aircraft while protecting friendly, i.e. Russian aircraft. It is that straightforward.
Side-effect
What is not so straightforward is that Syria’s air defense corps will become proficient in the use of the S-300, and though only four unit are installed now, that addition of additional batteries can be done quickly and with less fan-fare. The difference between four units and more than four units is less objectionable to Hegemon and Rogue State than the difference between zero units and four units.
Do not be overly concerned with a paucity of defensive capability at this time. It can be scaled up quietly, and I think this is what is going to happen.
James, if I may add to your excellent comment: The first thing News Media did yesterday was to accuse Russia, I do not know which time already, of messing with internet and “hegemon’s computers” and announced “Russia must be held accountable”. When it all fails, cook up some story and ride it. The bottom line is though, and I ask: “How is Russia going to be held accountable?” Another question: “How, and where is the proof”?
Dictum One AKA the Lawyers Creed
When the law is against you, argue the facts.
When the facts are against you, argue the law.
When both the facts and the law are against you, attack the witness.
Dictum Two … as modified by VVP
You can believe what Putin says.
You cannot believe what Hegemon says.
You cannot believe what Rogue State says.
Corollary Two-A
If judo master had wanted to “get us” we would have been “gotten” by now.
Reason
A stable world is better for Russia as it develops its citizenry and massive resources.
An unstable world threatens this process.
Syria has a Rothschild central bank and so do all the other players: Russia, US, UK, France and Israel.
“In the year of 2000 there were seven countries without a Rothschild owned or controlled Central Bank:
Afghanistan (check)
Iraq (check)
Sudan (check)
Libya (check)
Cuba
North Korea
Iran
The only countries left in 2011 without a Central Bank owned or controlled by the Rothschild Family are:
Cuba
North Korea
Iran”
“War is a racket. All wars are bankers’ wars.” (Smedley Butler.
‘Nuff said.
To my knowledge, Syria has a national central bank and not a “Rothschild” bank.
First point on Syrian Girl’s list of why the NWO hates Syria.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qMQ1gHl4LI
I haven’t heard that has changed – if you have a more recent source please tell.
The source you likely used there is http://www.theeventchronicle.com/finanace/three-countries-left-without-rothschild-central-bank/?
If you look further down the page you might notice they have a “Complete List of BANKS Owned or Controlled by the Rothschild Family (As of 2013)”
They do not list Syria.
Nonsense. China has solid control over her central bank unlike many other countries.
It’s really amusing that so many anti-China critics don’t know/purposely deny this fact.
While it’s true that certain psychopathic families have lots of influence over some countries (in particular western regimes/their minions), it doesn’t mean that they are as powerful as the claim. They are still humans, not some gods without flaws in their calculation.
Guessing you may be from china… and have direct knowledge
So who do you think REALLY owns and control the china CB? PBOC?
and whats with the CSCS?
does not the CPC runs ALL the show – money and military? Therefore owns china and all its people?
Thanks
If the CPC had ownership of all the People, they would not be so frightened about social control. CCTV, Facial Recognition, Internet controls, and severe pressure on religions.
Yes, the structure is Central Government control of SOEs and Banking, but there has always been a powerful restive force below the Party. The People can erupt at any time over the ‘right’ issues. And all Chinese know it. That’s what Tiananmen was. It had nothing to do with democracy and students rights. It began and flowed from economic issues and the violence erupted from workers (maybe a million or more who came to Beijing). The bloodiest fights with the Army were with workers.
Stability is the critical test every day. That means the government must deliver what the People need and want. And the government talks about it openly. President Xi is tacking toward the Maoist-Cultural Revolution controls and crackdowns. Inch by inch he demands obedience to Party and to himself. The test will be can he deliver 6% growth, food, clean air, water and energy for industry and housing, and continue China on the path to #1.
China is searching the US, Canada, UK and other places for 13 Trillion Dollars in stolen wealth by “Foxes” who shipped the wealth out of China over the last 20 years or so. That’s enormous amount of “money” lost. The US is doing very little to help China get back the money (naturally).
Always, the government in Zhongnanhai has to deliver stability, growth and prideful achievements. It’s a tall order. And ideology alone won’t suffice. The Chinese demand real accomplishments and real development of China products that are high value and services that are best of class.
The people are the social tectonic plates upon which rests the CCP. And the Politburo know this very well.
Thanks for going-off topic…
The Saker
You forgot Venezuela and Bolivia
Israeli Minister: S-300 Systems “Cannot Detect Our Stealth Fighters”
“You know that we have stealth fighters, the best planes in the world. These batteries are not even able to detect them,” Tzachi Hanegbi, the country’s regional cooperation minister and a non-voting member of its security cabinet, said on Wednesday, referring to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighters that Israel has been getting from the US.
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201810041068596761-isarel-ministeer-missiles/
He shoudl try telling the Serbs LOL!!
That Day The Serbs Did The Impossible And Shot Down
An F-117 Nighthawk
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/treasure-hunters-found-some-wwii-tubes-in-a-forest.html
On March 27, 1999 – Yugoslavian air defense shoot down a
Lockheed F-11 Nighthawk stealth aircraft of the US Air Force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown
Downing of F-117A, Serbia 1999 – Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbjdEjhHeXg
The correct link to “That Day The Serbs Did The
Impossible And Shot Down An F-117 Nighthawk
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/history/that-day-the-serbs-did-the-impossible-shot-down-an-f-117-nighthawk.html
Sorry
Really? Best planes in the world? I thought they flew American planes? Of course, in consumer cultures people often confuse price for quality.
a) If the F35 can bomb Syria it will be a disaster for Russia .
b) If the F35 is shot down by a S300 it will be a disaster for the US.
Russia could compensate point a) by shoting down a F35 with the S400 but if unable, Russia can say bye-bye to all their customers.
On the other hand if the S300/S400 prevail on the F35 and the Kinjal missiles transforms the us aircraft carrier in sitting duck then it will be the end of the US’power.
Emile, re your point b) an F35 entered Syrian airspace some months ago, turned tail and had to be taken out of service, according to what I read in SyrianPerspective. The Syrians say that F35 was hit by our old S-200 system; the Israelis say no, our F35 hit a bird. I am inclined to believe the Israeli version — because U$ pilots call F35 the Flying Lemon. Generous Uncle $cam gave F35 to Little Izzie, his favourite nephew, for free of course; but if the story about its first performance is true, an expensive present even at that price.
Personally, I would suggest not shooting down the F-35 at all, even if the Russian radars are good enough for tracking to provide accurate targeting info for SAMs. I submit that the best long-term tactic is to pretend that the F-35 and F-22 stealth technology works for as long as it takes to equip as many countries as possible with the obscenely expensive F-35. The Russians & Syrians should content themselves with trying to take out any air-to-ground missiles / glide bombs launched by the F-35 and absorbing any damage that non-intercepted bombs & missiles may cause. Strategically, it would be worth the Russians coughing up a few millions to rebuild Syrian equipment / bases in order to let the Western countries exhaust their money, training, and resources on something that in all likelihood is a lemon, but will be unable to be replaced because there won’t be enough time and money to replace it. The Western countries would be stuck with a lemon for the next 30-40 years which would ensure long-term Russian air superiority. It will be like the cartoon judo match between Obama and Putin where Putin remains motionless whilst Obama exhausts himself with his display of moves.
Perhaps there would be more howls of Putin being an Israeli agent etc. but it would be another case of game, set and match just by the Russians doing nothing.
Englesman, exactly. Russians have always been great at deception, not to say that others are not. Hence, you always keep your true abilities close to your chest until the real “thing” starts. Now, Putin said and showed few “toys” in March simply because he must have thought that things were heating up to the point where Russia needed a bucket of cold water to cool things off. Things have cooled off, but it seems they are warming up again. The rhetoric and accusations about “chemical and other attacks like IL-20, Ukraine naval threats, cyber messing” indicate such a thing.
Primarily in response to pressure from his military Putin has deployed an incomparable, albeit old, defence system to Syria. This system, is not Russia’s best but deem it an adequate defence against what is the West’s best. Consider, Russia has a fifth generation stealth fighter and I have a feeling they might well have tested it against all their numerous air defence systems and perhaps found it wanting?
I wonder what the main topic of conversation is among the Ashkanazi combat pilots?
ALL F-35s the US CAN make the KSA will be more than happy to buy. Any lie the US may tell the Saudi military will be considered God’s truth. Some parts of this aircraft are produced in Turkey.This can be closed down and production moved to the KSA. They will sell ALL their oil fields for the next 100 years if told to do so, to facilitate this deal. Just send Kushner in . The Americans know business and never lose out ! Each F-35 comes with its own pilot,as part of the parcel. That is the best part of the deal. Otherwise you may have as sold all the F-35s to ISIS
The most concerned fighter pilots in the world must be Israeli dreading the next decision of their psychotic leadership. What a wonderful setup the Russians now have. We who are about to die salute you. Let the games begin.
Will these air defense systems remain in Syria in post ISIS Syria?
If they remain then Syria will actively try and regain the Golan Heights.
Will Russia back Syria in this attempt?
“Will Russia back Syria in this attempt?”
Are you joking https://www.rt.com/news/438728-putin-israel-syria-plane/
Responding to a reporter’s question as to whether the incident in Latakia could be compared to the downing of the Russian Su-24 by Turkey in 2015, Putin said the two situations were “different.”
Ankara “deliberately downed” the Russian jet, he explained, while the Il-20 incident “looks like a chain of tragic circumstances, because the Israeli plane didn’t shoot down our jet.”
There is no post-ISIS. It is a master creation of the Ashkenazim. As long as Israel exists, ISIS will also exist. ISIS defines the Israeli psyche. It depicts the end result of the invasion of Iraq. Israel now has a world-wide reach to project the Zionist arm of terrorism. Why should Israel put itself in harm’s way. Get these mind- controlled Wahhabi based , freaks to get the job done. Create that state of perpetual of chaos in that region of the world it deems necessary, as part of it’s infernal program . ISIS is directly in the control of and funded by Mossad ! Which means the American tax payer. How’s that for a joke ??
Only 4 launchers :D
Excuse me if I feel a little deflated after all this buildup.
If this is the russian military taking over appeasement politics then the “5th column”, as you like to call it, is really mighty.
Meanwhile India just signed a contract for the delivery of 5 S-400 systems.
https://www.rt.com/news/440391-russia-india-s400-signed/
It’s gotta be 3d chess, right? Right?
It’s not the change in military capability that is important here. Some motivations have been exposed. Sides taken. Points rendered irrelevant.
Have you read the article?
The Saker
I read somewhere that this could be a translating issue. Do they mean 4launchers or 4 units of launchers. A unit consist of 3-4 launchers?
I´m not an expert here and I dont know whether this could be a translating issue or not but consider it´s?
They have also mentioned S300 in pluralis?
So I Think we will have to wait and see what is deliverad
Some interesting comments (and pretty sophisticated war nerdery) discussing this same topic over at ZH:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-04/israel-boasts-its-us-made-stealth-fighters-can-beat-s-300-syria
What say you, Vinyardians? :D
We have a comments section here, why repost comments from other (even very good) sites?
The Saker
The level of censorship is very high on this site, it is good to link to more open forums where people can speak their mind,it is more breeds a more intellectual environment and more interesting comments.
Actually Svasn, what keeps the comments section interesting here is *precisely* the fact that it is pretty strictly moderated. This is one of the reasons why this blog has more readers than what you call “more open forums” where “people can speak their minds”. Think of it as a debating society with rules versus a beer pub. To each his own, of course, but why you would try to so hard (all your other attempts to post this same message were, of course, flagged and intercepted) to invite people to go elsewhere is pretty pathetically obvious :-)
Cheers,
The Saker
PS: I want to, once again, thank the moderators for protecting this blog from the kind of “free speech” Svasn and other wish to inflict on us!
I have implored the Gods that there will be a S300 and the $35 prototype combat confrontation. It can of course only occur if there is a $35 attack and thus specifically a confrontation of radars. Numerous names have been tagged onto the $35 its authorised tag Lightning being the least descriptive.
Reminiscent of Gus, and retaining only the titular L, there is, for numerous serious reasons, why the $35 is a contender for the title Lemon.
Ruled by their psychotic hubris, the Ashkanazi have declared the S300 a redundant restraint and intend to prove it when they have sufficient of this questionable Citrus.
I do doubt however the gods will fulfill my imprecations. An inevitable #35 probing will quickly reveal to the “Chosen” that its game over man! Game over!
Three Mass Graves Discovered in Syria’s Idlib Province (PHOTOS)
The Idlib Governorate in the northwest of Syria remains a hotbed of militant insurgency in the war-plagued country, while the government’s forces have regained control of the rest territory.
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201810051068623677-mass-graves-idlib/
Thanks for going-off topic…
The Saker
“Speaking to reporters, Votel suggested that the S-300 deployment has “nothing to do” with Russia’s mission of defeating Daesh (ISIS)*, and claimed that it instead “appears to be an effort to cover for Iranian and Syrian regime nefarious activities in Syria.”
Conclusion-?- usa confirms Russia and its s300 is a legitimate target
…..along with Iran.
Does anyone have a link to a video or text where the basis of rockets, radar, jamming and so on is explained ?
Why does Russia give ally Syria the S300 while giving US ally India the S400?
Is there any way for Russia to protect the secret S400 technology from US scrutiny once it is delivered to India?
Russia is and has been a major arms supplier to India. I would question India being a US ally. The BRICS and BRI make India a key partner for Russia. The tide is moving inexorably away from the US hegemon. In fact, if it were a game of chess it would have been forfeited by now. I’m sure that reverse-engineering the S400 will have crossed the minds of the Russians.
its the export grade s400 not the same the one protecting the kremlin
It might be “giving” to Syria….but is selling to India…..
Firstly, Russia did not give India an S-400 system, India bought the S-400 from Russia for $5.5Billion for 5 regiments.
Secondly, India will not expose the system to the US, just like they haven’t exposed any other strategic military technology from Russia with the US or anyone else (for instance Russian nuclear attack submarines on lease with the Indian Navy, Russian destroyers and frigates now being built in India or the father of the Su-30SM, the Indian Su-30MKI which came into being due to the expertise, feedback and specifications of the Indian military provided to the Sukhoi design bureau). India doesn’t share this technology with the US because unlike the misinformation spread by certain paranoid indophobic or ignorant commenters at MoA, India is not in anyone’s back pocket. And it isn’t in India’s interest to provide the US with backdoors into India’s defense systems so that US can later disable said Indian defense systems.
Nobody trusts the US political system because the US is riddled with factionalism and governmental “multiple personality disorder”, an administration that is friendly to you today can be replaced by another faction tomorrow that can have exactly the opposite foreign policy objectives. Or a switch in party control of the US Congress can result in the same thing. Any or treaty or agreement the US signs is almost worthless because of the schizophrenic nature of the near anarchic structure of the US government.
(Who’d be crazy enough to trust an unstable country where half of the government is trying to destroy their own sovereignist president or a system so dishonest and insane that one faction tries to destroy their own Supreme Court judges by dredging up insane accusations of unsubstantiated attempted rape from 37 years ago when both the accused and the accuser were supposedly drunk teenagers with zero proof). The US has turned itself into an unreal laughing stock with this type of behavior, and no rational entity, today, would willingly increase their vulnerability to their mercurial insanity. The stupidity of the Democrat neoliberals, Anglophiles and their cultural Marxist useful idiots is only matched by the stupidity of the bible-thumping idiots who drink the koolaid of the neocons, it is almost like Rome and Caligula. Not a stable country unless American sovereignists get a grip on things.
Thirdly, the system being sold to India is not a cut down version but a hybrid system that will have greater range than even the Russian S-400. The Indians don’t want to be wholly dependent on Russian radars and battle management systems and will be integrating their own radars, missiles and their own air defense systems into their S-400 deployment to mitigate against the possibility of the existence of “Russian’ backdoors into the system that is being sold to India (india got badly betrayed when Russia was ruled by Yeltsin, not to mention how Iraq was betrayed when Yeltsin was in charge). India is mindful of the Atlantist 5th column lurking in the background in Moscow.
Forthly, India just gave the neocons in Washington (Bolton) the middle finger when they threatened India with CAATSA sanctions if India dared buy the s-400. Well Modi ignored the US threats signed this deal with Putin just this Friday at a summit between to 2 leaders in Delhi. They also signed 6 other agreements including a direct bypass of the US dollar via Rupee/ruble exchange mechanism (including for the S-400).
Here are videos of Putin explaining the current deals and the relationship: Oct 6, 2018
(Skip to 14:21 to listen to Putin’s speech)
https://youtu.be/IVoj1B2IjU4?t=14m21s
And here is a good technical explanation (in English) of the S-400, that gives a good tie in on the various S-300 systems, their radars and their evolution to S-400.
https://youtu.be/SsJ1JwyX-r8
s-300 for syria and s-400 for india?
who is bombing india that such an advanced system is needed?
Presumably the S400 is desired as a defence against attack from traditional enemy Pakistan.
The fact that the two Indian countries are separate and enemies is a demonstration of the failure of the human spirit, and a failure of statesmanship.
Regarding your question as to why India gets an S-400 and Syria only gets an S-300 even though it appears no is bombing India.
Yes, you see India is this huge country many many times the size of Syria with 1.4Billion people and the fastest growing major economy in the world. Since it is so much larger than Syria and has far far more assets to protect, an S-300 would not be adequate for Indian security needs.
Even though nobody is bombing India from the air, unfortunately, India has an unstable western created (British) ukronazi style anarchy on its western border whose leaders are a bizarre mix of nationalist islamo-supremacists, wahabist Sunni islamists and a narco-mafia, ie Pakistan. Further unfortunately for the Indians, this unstable wahabist infested state has primitive nuclear weapons mounted on North Korean or chinese designed ballistic missiles, which the Pakistanis have regularly threatened to use on Indian cities if India ever launched a conventional attack on Pakistan (in retaliation for a Pakistani sponsored terrorist attack).
Now given these irresponsible threats by the Pakistani islamo supremacist entity, and the fact the Pakistan is unstable and could balkanize into three or four statelets (with Islamist elements in their military getting control of some of their nuclear missiles), India needs some form of insurance to mitigate a situation where it might need to deal with rogue nukes launched from a disintegrating Pakistani state. That’s one of the reasons that India is acquiring the S-400 (because, aside from airplanes, it can also shoot down ballistic missiles of the primitive calibre that Pakistan possesses).
So that’s why, Syria gets an S-300 and India buys the S-400. Hope that helps.
And yet India is ruled by a religious extremist party which openly wants all to convert to Hinduism or die. Where as in Pakistan any religious party has never been voted in power and have no real power
@Blacky
Re:”And yet India is ruled by a religious extremist party which openly wants all to convert to Hinduism or die. ”
That is called projection, accusing others of what you yourself are guilty of. It seems to be endemic to the Anglo establishment (and their Islamist lackeys) somewhat beautifully exposed in the novel 1984: 1984 by “George Orwell” was an inside view on how the Anglo Saxon states actually operate; eg the Ministry of truth accusing the Eurasians of a massacre even though the massacre was carried out by Anglos against the Eurasians.
The useful idiots of the Anglo powers, the Islamists and their various flavors (Salafist, wahabist, deobandi fanatics etc) and their front organization evangelical and Anglican Christian conversion mill groups, who, having been nurtured, manipulated, coddled and trained by the Brits are, unsurprisingly, rote practitioners of this type of “projection”. Which is why even though it is Pakistan that has reduced (thru genocide and persecution) its non muslim religious minorities to less than 2% of their populations today from 15% of the population at Pakistan’s foundation in 1949, you’ll have shameless Netanyahu style Islamists in Pakistan claim how tolerant their ukronazi like state is and how it is so humane and tolerant. The facts are that the percentage of minority religions in India has increased since India liberated itself from the parasitical British up to 19-20% whereas the exact opposite is true in Pakistan. Those are the facts. Making up lies that the ruling party of Modi has threatened to kill all religious minorities unless they convert to Hinduism is really pathetic. As an Indian Christian I can tell you that that sort of thinking is consistent with Islamists and the Pakistani elite towards non Sunni Muslims but is antithetical to the Hindus that dominate the BJP.
Oh yes before I forget, I thought the topic at hand was the S-300 and related systems.
These systems RF is furnishing to Syria’s defense are defensive. All the responsible representatives of the RF and Syrian governments have stated the defensive purpose of these weapons.
You can see the common thread: defense, defense, defense.
If Israel, USA, France or anyone else feels threatened by this defense, they need only find some way to not attack, and they would have no threat to face.
I think that a credible, or even better an effective defense system is a good thing. I also think it would be good if most or even all countries in the world had something similar.
Too much blood and treasure has been wasted around the globe, attacks need to stop.
Just my opinion.
Thanks Saker for the rebuke to the off-thread commentary.
These folks need to put together their own article (1500 words or so, well-crafted with some sources on their facts used) and submit it for publication as a stand-alone article which then would generate an enormous response and comments on South Africa-related racism.
Same goes for others who regularly post huge and long comments. Turn them into an article for publication and send it to Saker. Read the info at the link below. Raise your game and become a writer of articles on topics you want to expound.
/submissions-policy/
From the experience of having grown up in a community of religious nuts (the Christian variety that likes to handle poisonous snakes), I can offer one bit of advise….
Be very, very careful of any group of religious nuts that loudly claim to be “God’s Chosen People.”
Such a claim will inevitably lead to the sort of hubris that will lead to great crimes.
—-
religious nuts are to religion what atheist nuts are to atheism: nuts.
The Saker
Here’s a deep dive into the S-300 variants and other EW and radar gear sent to Syria. It will give you a complete understanding of the usefulness of the integration of systems. The author goes into detail of the network-centric air defense system.
https://cont.ws/@Bogdan37/1081805
Use Yandex Browser for translation.
It is important to keep in mind the fact that the S-300 installations are not only Syrian. Shoigu has made the explicit point that the S-300 is in Syria as part of the defense for the Russian military.
If, or when, Israel attacks the S-300 the Israelis will be attacking the Russian defenses as much as Syria itself. In this situation Russia can no longer just observe but must step in and answer directly.
Also, I see the Israeli attacks on Syria as more than just symbolic. They have been attacking Pantsir systems and air defense crews trained by Russia. As the Saker points out these systems are crucial for the overall defense of Syria.
There’s been a lot said and written regarding the Russian response to Israel.
It’s been a few weeks now, since the loss of the Il 20.
What, if anything, has Israel been up to since then?
Yes, a lot of bluster from Lieberman but has the IAF been anywhere near the Syrian border in the last 3 weeks or so?
My guess is that they’re keeping well away.
Of the attack, Meyssan says a UK Tornado took off from Cypress one hour before the attack, flew over Syria to get a pre-op scan of the situation, and then landed in Iraq. He also claims that in the attack, the iL-20 “stalled,” which implies a deliberate DEW attack, though he doesn;t say that directly. And he says more, comparing the whole op to the UK-French-Israeli op in 56 to take over the Suez. I have no idea what really happened but he makes an interesting case by citing previous ops carried out by this trio, that this was very much deliberate.
Judging by their historical prudence Russian Federation (RF) would never made this delivery of their S300 unless they were sure about its performance against even F35 and also solid protection of RF air defense assets in Syria
Anything else could bring catastrophic results for RF and the whole world in all aspects.
Considering the sequence of actions that the Kremlin undertook against Ankara after the Turks shot down the Russian attack jet, I’m waiting for what’s next in this Israeli mess. They really went too far this time, and if the Turkish case is any kind of prediction for Israel, Tel Aviv should already be working on Netanyahu’s apology to Russia. The S-300 going under Syrian control is just the beginning for Bibi.
The rocketry and delivery system of the S-X00 family of SAMs is unmatched. These missiles can probably do what the Russians say they can do. However, the key is in their detection/radar systems. For they cannot destroy what they cannot detect. All the Israelis need is the proper stealth. All they need to beat is the missile’s radar.
Well, can the F-35 do that? If so all the stories about the capabilities of the S-300, 400, 500 are baloney and merely sales pitches. If the F-35 is immune to the S-300 SAM then Russia will not be able to close deals on its sale.
My guess is Russia will not attempt to bring down an F-35 because too much is at stake. The S-300s sent to Syria are under Russian control, which means they will not be fired against NATO.
Re: 1956
Trump is no Eisenhower. Thus, the trio can do whatever they want and coerce Trump to go along.
If US, Israeli, or NATO planes threaten Russian bases or assets in Syria, they will be shot down, just like their missiles and guided bombs have been shot down.
If there is an attempt to induce a SAM firing at F-35’s, or other planes, then the Russians may determine not to fire.
Russia has indicated from Putin, Shoigu, Gerasimov and other Generals, as well as FM Lavrov, that everything has changed and Russia will defend herself and her allies.
There is no parsing those announcements (warnings). It is crystal clear.
Half-way measures only encourage the Anglo/Zios. If Russia is going to make a statement in Syria, it has to be Yes or No. Go big and strong or go home.
Saker, you wrote:
“It is important to keep in mind that while the S-300s are certainly formidable air defense systems, they are not a Wunderwaffe which could, by itself, prevent the Israelis from attacking Syria. The latest delivery of military hardware from Russia will definitely mark a sharp increase in the Syrian (and Russian) defense capabilities, but if the Israelis are determined to continue striking Syria, the Russians will have to deliver even more systems.”
I’m sure that’s true. But you didn’t comment on the the Israeli statements here, and it perhaps you don’t know if the statement is true since you’re not a hardware expert:
https://www.rt.com/news/440267-israel-f35-syria-s300/
Quoting from the article:
***
Tel Aviv’s self-reserved right to freely strike ‘Iranian targets’ anywhere inside or outside Syria was severely undermined by Moscow’s transfer of S-300 air defense systems and accompanying hardware to Damascus. The surface-to-air interceptors delivered to the Syrian Arab Army, as well as Moscow’s resolve to jam the radar, navigation, and communications systems on any aircraft attacking targets in Syria via the Mediterranean coast might complicate missions for Israeli F-15s and F-16s. So, to avert potential threats to their fighter planes, Israel will rely more on the F-35 to carry out its missions in Syria, Galei Tzahal (Army Radio) reported.
According to the technical characteristics of the US-made jets, the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system should, in theory, allow the jet to operate undetected inside enemy territory and to evade advanced missile defense systems such as the S-300 by suppressing its signals. Whether or not the F-35’s ‘stealth’ capabilities will be effective in real battle conditions is yet to be seen as, in the past, the aircraft, on top of hundreds of bugs and glitches in its systems, was experiencing radar problems.
***
If you have any thoughts, I’d appreciate it. This question is on topic.
My own opinion is that Russia does not want to shoot down an Israeli jet and will only do so in rare circumstances. However, if F-35s strike with impunity or cannot be shot down, I don’t know what the optics are. Shooting down an Israeli jet will lead to direct U.S. intervention. Perhaps this is more a political than technical matter. Israel and Russia have ties. And could the “friend” codes be in Israeli possession?
Designer of Warthog Pierre Sprey says stealth is so much hype; long wave radars going back to the Battle of Britain can detect.
I’d appreciate your thoughts. But I think the only someone in the Russian military and government will know how far they’ll go.
Lastly, Israelis say the targets were Iranian and a threat? Is that true? Or will continued Israeli bombing threaten Syria? I suppose the Russians have to find a balance. But to me it looks bad that they strike with impunity. Is Iran making weapons to attack Israel in Syria? That seems beyond idiotic but one never knows. Just giving the devil his due.
Thanks, Saker.
I feel that Putin should have put in the S-300 earlier and he wont need to lose 14 brave Russians. Putin is too trusting of the US and its ally Israel. You don’t ‘trust’ anyone in a war, especially those who are not your partners or allies.
As is mentioned, there are still gaps in the air defence of Syria. These would be likely exploited to inflict more casualties on the Russian forces. I think that Putin should up the air defence of Syria and leave no ambiguities as to what will happen if the same or other tricks are tried. The only ambiguity should be the sophistry of those air defence systems and their defence support.
When thwarted, the US is known to use sneak attacks to get even. E.g. the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade in 1999 was suspected to be due to the downing of the US stealth bomber (the F-117A) due to Chinese advice given to the Serbian air defence.
So don’t ever let down guard nor ‘trust’ them when dealing with them.
It will be interesting to see how this progresses. It should be kept in mind that Israel has access to world class military tech through theft from both the US and Russia. The F-35s in service in Israel have modified avionics over the US version so they may actually be useful. Regarding the reaction by Israel to the deployment of the S-300 a plausible course of action, despite Lieberman’s meshugenah reaction, is that they will do nothing immediately. Then begin to assess the situation and probe and test defenses.
The Israelis not only waited until the last minute to inform the Russians but also deliberately misinformed them ( their plausible deniability was that they were “vague” about location i.e. “Northern Syria” ) so much so that the Il 20 was directed to fly out of danger ( supposedly) and to return to land at Latakia.
We may never know the truth of the situation but it is not beyond the realm of possibility that there are dual citizen pilots within the Israeli air force who march to a different drummer from time to time. This is not, however, “highly likely”
I think the only “complicated” plan the Israelis had was downing that surveillance plane as a slap in the face of the Russians for agreeing with Erdogan not to attack Idlib, which the Israelis hoped would cause the US to attack Syria. Or at least the Israelis intended their attack in Latakia – previously off limits since it is near the Russian facilities – to be such a slap in the face. But downing the surveillance plane was at least a bonus since it disrupted surveillance of Israel as well as insurgent operations in Syria – at least until the Russians replaced the plane.
Well, they got their face slapped back harder. And if they attack the S-300’s with the US-supplied F-35I jets, it’s likely they will lose one or more of those as well. And if they do succeed in destroying one or more S-300 installations, then as Saker says Russia will just ship them some S-400 – and more of them. Which means Israel will shoot itself in the foot once more.
I actually hope they try it and fail miserably. If a couple F-35 get shot down, the US “superplane” takes a hit in the military arms export market, and so even more of the one trillion expense ends up wasted.
The offloading of the S-300 launchers was made highly visible. But what about all those other earlier deliveries well covered to protect from prying eyes? Only the Russians know the actual number of S-300 launchers now in Syria; I suspect it’s greater than 4. And those 4 were for SAA’s use. What about additional S-300 or S-400 units to bolster Russia’s portion of the air defense system? Nobody’s speculated that has occurred despite its being highly likely. And what of Iraq; surely they’ll want their own Russian air defense weapons packages.
IMO, Russian resolve and Syrian resiliency combined with Russian and Chinese diplomacy are responsible for the recent warming of relations between Syria and the wider Arab World plus Iran’s extension of the olive branch to Saudi in Zarif’s tweet. The conversation’s changing for numerous reasons, one of which is Trump’s Big Mouth–insulting Saudi honor was the worst thing he could do.
As for the Zionists, they will attack again, but the target(s) chosen must be high value in case they lose some of their jets, particularly an F-35, which they’ll deny as usual.
OT yet related: A question for The Saker:
What do you make of the Heritage Foundation’s “2019 Index of US Military Strength”? https://www.heritage.org/military-strength
Sputnik published this synopsis, https://sputniknews.com/military/201810051068644481-pentagon-ill-equipped-fight-two-wars/ saying the overall rating attained was “Marginal.” My reliance on what info’s publicly available leads me to conclude the Marginal rating is optimistic. Perhaps your response could take the form of a more detailed analysis of Heritage’s.
A key capability Shoigu announced was the centralised command and control, and the use of IFF throughout the whole of the air defenses. This considerably upgrades the defense capabilities, as does the additional firepower. The capabilities of the EW that he announced are also a game changer. Russia will not be going of at half cock.
Lack of specific detail of what was actually provided is necessary to keep the enemy guessing. What purpose is served in giving them intel?
I would be astonished if the Israelis attempt to fly an F35 anywhere near Syria. I’m sure the US will not want the Israelis putting the F35 in harms way, for obvious reasons.
It increasingly seems like an Israeli stunt to lure an all out NATO attack, although the British planes in the air implies pre coordination – at least with the British if not the French. If I was a French sailor on the Auverne I would be thinking about retiring.
From what I have read, low RCS(radar cross section) aircraft can only be detected by low frequenc, long wavelength radar. This type of radar has some disadvantages, such as requiring very large antenna arrays and having low “resolution” that makes it difficult track the target and obtain a lock. Unless Russia is deploying these AESA radar arrays to Syria, the F35 would still be able to fly undetected.
I understand the S400 can see stealth aircraft, and the S400 radars in Syria are now fully integrated with the S300 and other systems. We don’t know which radars were sent with the S300 but you would have to be a total idiot, knowing that Israel has F35s, not to send radars that can see them – and I don’t see the Russian military as idiots.
Anyhow, the F35 is only stealth front-on (allegedly), if its carrying no outside munitions, until it opens its internal bomb doors (which it has to do as it overheats). And its jet engine runs hot. I don’t give it a one in a million chance.
I am not a miltary expert, however I have eyes and those eyes tell me that satellite resolution (e.g.check out Google maps) is more than sufficient to see any aircraft.
A geo-stationary satellite over the Syria area should be able to detect anything taking off from Israel and track it. Software can do this unaided and filter out airline traffic and anything that is not suspicious. With infra-red capability it should be able to track any aircraft, stealth or otherwise and beam the coordinates and vector info. back..
With the massive single engine on the F-35 you’d think its I/R signature would be a dead giveaway.
Why is stealth, that only works against radar, even still useful?
I am perplexed.
Why is stealth useful? It is a useful means to extract more dollars from the US Treasury, dollars which must be borrowed.
Stealth is the ultimate weapon. Through a series of unfortunate circumstances (i.e. MIC, neocons, Deep State), stealth will destroy this country.
To re-utter a tired phrase:
Britain – expanded itself out of existence.
Germany – militarized out of existence.
US – Is spending itself out of existence.
and it I may add one …
Zionism – Is arrogating itself out of existence.
Beautiful, Superbly summarized : To re-utter a tired phrase:
Britain – expanded itself out of existence.
Germany – militarized out of existence.
US – Is spending itself out of existence.
and it I may add one …
Zionism – Is arrogating itself out of existence.
Seems to be the only real hope for the world. And they want to make Russia follow bait ?
Russia is not only thinking about Israel/FUKUS’s F-35, they’re also thinking about the F-22, a far more capable plane and structurally designed to have low RCS across multiple bands.
F-35 was initially intended to be a cheaper version of the F-22 — whose unit cost made most people’s eyes water — much like the F-16 was intended to be a cheaper (and thus more numerous) partner to the F-15. IIRC the ratio was 3 F-35 : 1 F-22. F-35 was originally intended to be an attack aircraft, to take out enemy air defences, radar, AA batteries, etc. But that was before they adopted the one-size-fits-all philosophy. Now it’s touted to be an attacker, fighter and close air support plane; with normal take-off, assisted take-off and vertical take-off models, phew! The main debate now, of course, is whether instead of being a horse, F-35 is now a camel (ie. a horse designed by a committee, to borrow a maxim); and whether a camel can do the work of a horse.
Back to the question, I’m quite sure RF military in Syria have some sort of system capable of detecting and tracking not only F-35 but also F-22 in theatre. I’ve read reports, both Russian and US, of Su-30/35 confronting those planes near the Euphrates. The Sukhois must have been queued from some system somewhere in Syria or in the eastern Med, or both.
Basil
The lengthy Jewish requests to stop S-300 delivery toSyria prove that even the old S-300 system types deployed in Greece are very dangerous for them.
I expect the F 35, F 22 falling down to the earth as wrecks together with their pilots falling down as dust.
“for obvious reasons”
What are the reasons?
The well known half mad ridiculous US attempt to stop other countries buying S 400 proves that the cosequences for the USA wiil be very serious. The consequences will incliude not only the destroyed aircrafts and military reputation but the destruction of pax Americana, goodby to the status as superpower and destabilisation of the USA with a lengthy serious political crysis within the country as well
In my understanding, an AESA radar on a plane is still a radar. It works by sending out radio impulses. It is active. Sends out signals which have to be strong enough to be reflected by whatever is out there and come back. Therefore these signals can be detected on the ground. By using it, a plane makes its presence known.
Quite the opposite of being stealthy.
“Stealth” effect is probably achieved by other means.
I suspect the RT reporters got confused by the strong advertising of amerikan products.
Unless somehow such a radar antenna array has some magic mode in which it absorbs all incoming frequencies all over the plane like a vacuum cleaner absorbing dust … not sure how such magic can be achieved and also did not find any mention of it in my quick reading of wikipedia and Raytheon site.
I am glad that the readers are now including the Israeli F-35s in the discussion. The IDF have a whole operational squadron now, with more on order. I am concerned that The Saker has not mentioned them in this article, as they will probably be used in any response to the “Syrian” S-300s. Perhaps in a future article?
My take is that the S-300s have upped the ante, but not in the usual way of thinking. The armed forces of the world are watching the Syrian area as a ‘testing ground’ of the F-35 against perhaps the highest-threat defenses outside of Russia & China proper. The combined forces of Lockheed Martin, hawkish members of Congress, and senior USAF officials are aware of this ‘opportunity’. So, the IDF will be under immense pressure to prove that stealth works against modern defenses.
My guess is that the Israeli F-35s will be used to ‘probe’ Russian defenses. Remember, this is a data-gathering exercise for the bigwigs. Fly around; see if/where you get ‘lit up’ by targeting radars, as opposed to scanning radars. See if scanning radars can see you and direct air-defense fighters to your vicinity. Etc. All this will be used as classified ‘sales brochures’ for the F-35 to other countries.
At some point, the bigwigs will want to see ‘boom’ – but only as an advertisement for the F-35. As such, they will first pick the low-hanging fruit; places where it is unlikely they will get shot down. However, various bigwigs will want to ‘brag’ about the F-35 for future sales. So, look for eventual F-35 raids into ‘contested’ areas – although carefully planned-out for success.
Eventually, the bigwigs will want to brag about taking-out S-300s. So, one or two units will be singled-out as the most vulnerable. Every measure will be taken to find those with minimum Russian crews. Then, they will be destroyed as sales advertisements. Just business…
Well its well known that the Jews did for a very long time everything possible and impossible to stop the delivering of S-300 to Syria and when finally they didnt succeeded they now ridiculously claim that S 300 isnt so dangerous and no threat for them at all and nothing serious happened – its a good example of the tipically jewish way of ridiculous thinking
@gosh: “‘as an advertisement for the F-35…. they will first pick the low-hanging fruit; places where it is unlikely [an F35] will get shot down.”
Even more important for advertisement, they will pick “soft” places where an Israeli F35 will be unlikely to collide again with a bird.
“…and other military hardware for Syria”
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/09/28/electronic-warfare-comes-to-syria-israel-and-us-out-of-their-depth/
Russia to Israel: We’ve got our eyes on you in Syria
It seems that Russia is serious about taming Israel and Saudi Arabia in Syria. When Israel took down the Russian plane, we are told that Netanyahu made several phone calls to Vladimir Putin to explain his version of the debacle. But Putin had other important matters to do; he ignored the mad man in Tel Aviv.
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/10/06/russia-to-israel-weve-got-our-eyes-on-you-in-syria/
I really doubt there will be any downfall of Israel.. Ethnically homogeneous populations with a strong culture and religion really don’t “fall”.. Sure they can lose wars, an entire generation can be massacred, but because they are based on ethnicity they always recover.
That is why countries such as Germany or Japan can rebuild and become super powers no matter how many times they are smashed to dust. This is always why liberals find it so important to carry out mass-immigration and population replacement in the European world. It is really the only way to truly defeat the European civilization and make sure it never can arise again. It is a very effective method, and one that has been practiced successfully over human history.
There is only two ways to defeat an ethnically homogeneous population.
1. Full on genocide.
2. Population replacement, move in other populations into the same living space, this causes a state of eternal ethnic conflict and division and the rebellions ethnic group can never arise united again.
Even if Israel was defeated militarily, it would just resurrect a generation later. The arabs could occupy Israel, but an eternal guerilla war would be carried out against the occupiers.
“Even if Israel was defeated militarily, it would just resurrect a generation later. The arabs could occupy Israel, but an eternal guerilla war would be carried out against the occupiers.”
Resurrect where, in what part of the world ? Antarctic maybe ?
Its impossible to conduct a guerilla war within the laughably small territory having ridiculously small forces without the USA support because the military defeat means the defeat of the USA as well. Remember that there are nations and countries that disappeared completely and there ara nations that can potentially disappear completely
The Ashkanazi of Khazaria, converts to Judaism, were dispersed from their lands and now are resurrected in Palestine as non-Semitic “Hebrews”. Check out The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler and The Invention of the Jewish People by Schlomo Sands, both Jews. I downloaded PDF copies.
The problem for the Zionists is that their entire construct for existence is nonsense. Later generations will see through the lies. Once the Zionist project has collapsed, as it must thanks to it’s depravity, it will go the way of Nazi Germany.
See, but there is a difference: nobody was going to question the existence of Germany at that time, except maybe Morgenthau or some other Jewish personalities had such an idea or plan but oficially nothing was or is known about it
“Ethnically homogeneous populations with a strong culture and religion really don’t “fall”.
And that’s your biggest and most obvious flaw in attempt at ethnically unifying Israelis. The simple fact is that while most Israeli’s do indeed share a strong and collective sense of a culture and/or religious sensibilities, they are hardly a population that approaches anything that might be remotely construed as “ethnically homogeneous”.
Much of the ruling class Israelis are comprised of either a Germanic or Slavic ethnicity, aka: eastern European Ashkenazi’s – with Netanyahoo himself originating from classic (Polish) Slavic stock. Throw in Turkic and several other assorted semi-indigenous (actually) Semitic ethnicities and you end up with a very pronounced ethnically diverse Israeli population.
So much for your “homogeneous” theorem.
It’s actually worse than that. There is no “Israeli” culture per se. Israeli culture is a mix of Ashkenazi Yiddish culture and Sephardic Ladino culture. Not to mention Arabic Mizrahi culture. An attempt was made to create and superimpose an artificial “Israeli” culture over these cultures (which have historical traditions dating back centuries) but this has little legitimacy.
As far as religion is concerned, Ashkenazi and Sephardic rabbinical authorities function separately. Of course, the real fissure is between the Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) and the secular. This is a particular sore spot due to the exemption of the Haredim from military service.
It’s been a joke for a long time that without the unifying Arab threat, Israel would never survive.
When is an S-300 not an S-300?
When it is hooked up to an S-400 level system and operated by Russian professionals.
Hi Saker,
Regarding the arrogance of Israel, I totally agree, and like you, I have also read much of what Michael Hoffman has written about Orthodox Judaism (Judaism Discovered) and the Talmud mentality in general, but I have also come across a stunning body of occult research to suggest what’s even BEHIND this. Please don’t knock it until you have studied it. In fact, Hoffman even hinted at it in his book Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare. What am I talking about? Well… an occult symbolism researcher and expert in ancient languages has deciphered what the “Jewish” hierarchy REALLY believe: that they were “chosen” in ancient times as the ruling elite of man by the “Gods” that came to earth and planted life on Earth. It’s not me saying this, it’s what they have long hidden in the layered writings of their teachings. The researcher is called Pierre Sabak and it took him about 15 years to write two books and piece it altogether (The Murder of reality and The Holographic Culture). Pierre is a friend of mine and I would like you consider checking out his research and interviewing him if you feel so inclined.
His website: https://pierresabakbooks.com/holographic-culture-coming-soon
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1nWazpiFjM
All the best, Dave
Hi Dave, this comment is off-topic. Please could you take any fruther comment to the MFC or an associated article. Any further will go to trash. Mod.
Point taken. My apologies.
Expect more of this nonsense now that the zionazi-gays have vastly expanded their cyberwar capabilities.
System is Unavailable :-(
https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/
“We’re sorry, currently there seems to be something wrong.
Al-Masdar News has grown exponentially over the last couple of years on the simple premise of publishing ALL news about any event we cover. Unfortunately that brings cyber attacks from people that disagree with the news we publish and try to silence us rather than put on their big boy pants and get their own views published, so in 99% of the cases where our system is unavailable it is due to one of these attacks, the other 1% it is usually an IT staff that did something wrong due to lack of sleep.”
Im still scratching my head trying to understand the original question – wasnt the stated purpose of delivering this capability to make sure that the ol’ hiding (shielding) behind russian planes trick wouldnt work anymore ?
Does the technology (even an old version of the 300) solve this problem or answer unknown?
Israel’s action was provocation, I would not be so quick to write it off a mindless arrogance, there was a certain degree of thought & consideration that went into this. Essentially, they are daring Russia to react, daring Russia to retaliate directly & then pressurize the US to back Israel as per usual. They know Russia’s options are quite limited, & they – Israel – can embark on a campaign of such actions. Israel are letting Russia know that they absolutely consider her an enemy & that the intervention in Syria a hostile act against Israel. I have said this before, in response to some odd commentators who have their own You Tube channels & repeatedly claim that Russia is subordinate to Israel, takes orders, & somehow advances Israel’s interests in Syria. Very odd. I repeat myself, for Israel, Russia’s assistance to Syria’s liberation & restoration of sovereignty is a declaration of war by Russia against Israel. That is how it is read in sunny Tel Aviv. So this is the response, they are saying to Russia: “we will attack you & there is not a god damned thing you can do or will do against us, in fact, we dare you, go on, try something against us, do it you little cossack whore.” Putin knows, of course, & he will do something that Israel will not see coming, something that they will feel, but not expect.
“it you little cossack whore.” – its very ridiculous if the word “little” is viewed as relevant in relation to Russia in sunny silly Tel Aaviv – but why all these repeated visits (more than 10, if im not mistaken) to “small” Russia from “great” Israel then ?
“there is not a god damned thing you can do or will do against us, you little cossack whore.”
BREAKING NEWS !!! : The Great prime minister of the Great state of Israel, Netaniahu the Great, wants to visit MOSCOW, the capital of “small” Russia one more time. Strange enoough that Putin is in no hurry to vist the jewish state despite the impressive superior operational capabilites of F 22 – F 35 threatening to strike the inferior Syrian S-300 as they are seen and classified by the jewish pundits
If Israel were a rational actor then their “little” as averse to Russia’s “big” (I would say ‘great’, I am admittedly biased) would be obvious to them, but if they were rational they wouldn’t be risking regional/world war by shooting down Russian military aircraft. Israel views itself as “big” in the sense that they are an imperial/colonial entity out to expand, & their current size is a mere inconvenient irrelevance, they are determined to realize the Oded Yinnon plan & establish Eretz Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates. The Syrian war is in large measure about this (& much else besides, blocking OBOR is another reason this vicious terrorist war was launched). We know that they confront Russia with the entire West ready to back them, & fight wars for them, but when they act they also do so with the arrogance of a country that punches above its own weight. Israel’s view of itself is of a great regional power about to become a world power. They’re basically nuts. That’s my point, & make no mistake, I confidently put words in their mouth because referring to Russia as a little cossack whore is a mild slur, there is much worse, more profane, vulgar & insulting terminology that they privately would & do utilize.
V
I’ve speculated here also that the israeli Il-20 provocation was the israelis “dropping the mask” about their war against Russia.
Daesh Terrorists Again Evacuated by US Copters From Syria’s Deir Ez-Zor – Report
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201810071068679412-syria-deir-ez-zor-daesh-terrorists-evacuation/
“The Saturday evacuation is the latest in a series of airlifts coming amid the Syrian Army’s ongoing offensive on jihadists who still control small pockets of Deir ez-Zor, much of them empty desert.
A number of wounded Daesh* terrorists militants have been evacuated by US helicopters from Syria’s eastern Deir ez-Zor province, local sources said, as quoted by the Syrian news website Arabi Today.
On Saturday night, the militants were reportedly relocated from the town of al-Shaafah located near the Iraqi border to an unknown location.
It is not the first time that US military aircraft have been spotted transferring Daesh terrorists from embattled regions.
In late September, Syria’s SANA news agency reported that the US-led coalition performed “an air landing operation” on the outskirts of al-Marashida in order to airlift terrorist leaders to an unknown destination.
In April, SANA said that US military helicopters reportedly evacuated at least three Daesh commanders of Iraqi origin along with their family members from Tal al-Shayer region 20 kilometers southeast of the Syrian city of al-Shadadi in Hasakah province.
In April, SANA said that US military helicopters reportedly evacuated at least three Daesh commanders of Iraqi origin along with their family members from Tal al-Shayer region 20 kilometers southeast of the Syrian city of al-Shadadi in Hasakah province.
In December 2017, SANA revealed that a number of Daesh militants had been evacuated from several locations across Deir ez-Zor province to the al-Hasakah region, under the control of US forces.”
Now what everyone knows but no- one dares to say.
Fact #1: Nothing the Russians have done changes anything. The Americans and the Israelis together field more airplanes and missiles and rockets and artillery than either the Russians in Syria or the Syrians and the Iranians stationed there. So these S-300s supposedly delivered to the Syrians don’t significantly change the military balance on the ground as anything the Syrians or their allies can field against the NATO bandits can be overwhelmed relatively easily, as we will soon witness in about two weeks’ time. Targets in Syria will be hit with more violence and destructive force than ever before. As an aside, neither Lieberman nor Netanyahu run this show, anymore than Trump does.
Fact #2: The *only* way the Russians or the Iranians can dissuade the Americans or the Israelis from attacking Syria is by *retaliating* immediately against mobile and fixed enemy assets at once. No waiting and no inane statements which are only mocking the world’s collective intelligence. American and Israeli jets must be pursued, engaged and shot down if possible. The airfields they took off from must be bombed and destroyed. The ships that fired the cruise missiles must be sunk. NATO has been attacking and *winning* thus far: 200 bombing raids just from the Israelis unimpeded; economic and financial sanctions against Russia *unanswered* nor dealt with (Russia still sells Russian oil for American dollars or the American vassals’ Euros and Yens); Iranian oil embargo about to hit Iran, Turkey, Russia, and even Europe and others.
Fact #3: without a change of leadership in the Russian and also Iranian governments (Assad rules nothing, he’s just a figurehead), nothing will change. Syria is de facto divided in three by Russia, Turkey and America/Israel.
Next year, all this becomes de jure. Greater Israel is the world’s collective project in which you are all participating every time you use dollars to buy or sell your goods and services thereby financing the global MIC headed by America and Israel.
@Saker–It has now been confirmed that Syria got three battalions of S300 PM. Each battalion consists of 8 launchers.
” That kind of contempt for agreements (and for non-Jews in general) is typical of the Israeli mindset and it will eventually bring the downfall of the last openly racist regime on the planet.”
Unfortunately the chosen ones have long understood this and are already well advanced in planning a move to Patagonia.
What is Israël’s project in Argentina?
http://www.voltairenet.org/article198968.html
Whatever the reason, S-300 or 400 or UPM or something, the number of reports about attacks on Syrian forces went down to – like zero – since the downing of IL 20. It seems that USA is quietly evacuating their ISIS assests from Deir-Ez-Zor, which is fine, no need to waste ammo on them. Those are not coming back to fight.
Izrael might try something, the USA – not. Why? Because USA is not capable of anything that requires thinking and planning. I’have been observing the education system in USA and Canada for about 20 years The system was producing morons in 1997, jsut as it produces them now. However, morons from 1997 are now teachers. S-300 does not matter any more. Reverse engineering by USA/NATO? Not really. It seems that russian military electronics is based on analog components, versus transistor technology that has ruled western world since 1970. Since universities in USA stopped classes in anlog electronic in seventies, there is no one to actualy reverse engineer anything. Remeber when a MIG 30 defected to Japan, in eghties? ICA took over imemdiately, yet hey were not able to do anything with it. But they can surely tweet the coordinates, or stay connected on Wht’sUp….
Sleep well, no shooting war is coming. Just checked positions of US carriers on Colloenetl Cassad. All but two are in USA ports. One is heading to Japan, and one is sitting in Norforlk, England. Does not look like very offensive posture to me. Given how much time they took to move into position to attack Iraq or Yugoslavia, we should be OK for next 5-6 months.
Sleep well :-)
Perhaps the delivery of these systems is meant as much as a warning a deterrent to Israel and other invaders that they will face the loss of jets and people if they do this again. Sometimes just the possibility is enough to dissuade bad conduct. In this case, it won’t. It is only a matter of time for this will be put to the test. I also think Russia needs to be cautious in showing the invaders exactly what its full military capability is. They will be studying these systems, looking for weaknesses. Russia after all still has its own country to protect.
I read (Wash Post) that 24 F-22s disappeared in the Florida hurricane a few days ago. Yet photos show no wreckage of them, just two non F-22s with a bit of damage.
So where are they?
I have seen suggestions that the US gave the planes to Israel to increase Israeli defense/offensive capabilities vs the new Syrian S-300s.
Assuming there is any truth to any of this; can anyone answer the question:
Is the F-22 a credible danger to the S-300s or conversely, is the S-300 a credible danger to the F-22?